Tuesday October 13, 2009, 12:01 am
The same jerks who predict the end of the world by heat also predicted an ice age in the 1970s

Holdren: Ice age will kill 1 billion by 2020
Obama's science chief blames humans
By Jerome R. Corsi
__________________



9 Oct 09 - “White House science czar John Holdren has predicted 1 billion people will die in ‘carbon-dioxide induced famines’ in a coming new ice age by 2020,” says this article published today on World Net Daily.

Holdren predicted in a 1971 textbook co-authored with Paul Ehrlich that “global over-population was heading the Earth to a new ice age unless the government mandated urgent measures to control population, including the possibility of involuntary birth control measures such as forced sterilization.”

I wonder if our science czar still believes in forced sterilization?

Holdren's prediction that 1 billion people would die from a global cooling "eco-disaster" was announced in Ehrlich's 1986 book "The Machinery of Nature."

Human emissions of carbon dioxide would produce a climate catastrophe in which global warming would cause global cooling, Holdren believed. The consequent reduction in agricultural production would result in widespread disaster.

Read that again. Global warming will cause global cooling?
Holdren wants it both ways, doesn’t he?

“Equivocating between whether human-caused global warming or global cooling were the more likely future trend, the authors (Holdren and Ehrlich) concluded that, either way, any rapid climate change would produce an eco-disaster because any rapid change in climate, regardless whether toward global warming or global cooling, would produce hazardous effects upon agriculture and food production.

Did you catch that? Either way, it’s our fault. I wonder what caused
all of the previous ice ages before we nasty humans came along?

I agree that the coming ice age could kill a billion people, but it won’t
be our fault.

It will be our fault, however, if our politicians continue passing laws
that restrict our access to the fuel necessary to heat our homes, grow
our food, or transport that food to the locations that need it.

See entire article, which even gives the page numbers
where Holdren espoused his spurious ideas.
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=112317

Tuesday October 13, 2009, 2:25 am
Hey Judy, The Sky is Warming, the sky is warming. Sometimes Chicken Little is right!!!

Tuesday October 13, 2009, 3:34 am
noted thanks nancy , the world is heating up n soon as all that ice melts which its going to there will be nobody left to telll the yale to there children or grandchildren and we have all done our bit to cause it its going to happen n not long

Tuesday October 13, 2009, 2:46 pm
I think it has already struck! Where has all the sunshine gone?

Tuesday October 13, 2009, 6:17 pm
Cal...wrong...it hasn't warmed since 1998. Time to put the chickens in a heated coup.

"It’s important to realise that the Little Ice Age was a global event. It ended in the late 19th Century and was followed by increasing solar activity. Over the past 50 years solar activity has been at its highest since the medieval warmth of 1000 years ago. But now it appears that the Sun has changed again, and is returning towards what solar scientists call a “grand minimum” such as we saw in the Little Ice Age.

The match between solar activity and climate through the ages is sometimes explained away as coincidence. Yet it turns out that, almost no matter when you look and not just in the last 1000 years, there is a link. Solar activity has repeatedly fluctuated between high and low during the past 10,000 years. In fact the Sun spent about 17 per cent of those 10,000 years in a sleeping mode, with a cooling Earth the result.

You may wonder why the international climate panel IPCC does not believe that the Sun’s changing activity affects the climate. The reason is that it considers only changes in solar radiation. That would be the simplest way for the Sun to change the climate – a bit like turning up and down the brightness of a light bulb.

Satellite measurements have shown that the variations of solar radiation are too small to explain climate change. But the panel has closed its eyes to another, much more powerful way for the Sun to affect Earth’s climate. In 1996 we discovered a surprising influence of the Sun – its impact on Earth’s cloud cover. High-energy accelerated particles coming from exploded stars, the cosmic rays, help to form clouds.

When the Sun is active, its magnetic field is better at shielding us against the cosmic rays coming from outer space, before they reach our planet. By regulating the Earth’s cloud cover, the Sun can turn the temperature up and down. High solar activity means fewer clouds and and a warmer world. Low solar activity and poorer shielding against cosmic rays result in increased cloud cover and hence a cooling. As the Sun’s magnetism doubled in strength during the 20th century, this natural mechanism may be responsible for a large part of global warming seen then.

That also explains why most climate scientists try to ignore this possibility. It does not favour their idea that the 20th century temperature rise was mainly due to human emissions of CO2. If the Sun provoked a significant part of warming in the 20th Century, then the contribution by CO2 must necessarily be smaller."
read it all

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/10/svensmark-global-warming-stopped-and-a-cooling-is-beginning-enjoy-global-warming-while-it-lasts/

Tuesday October 13, 2009, 11:35 pm
What's Up With That is a DENIALIST BLOG - why do you keep presenting BLOGS as "science"????

now on to some FACTS regarding your "claims" (repeated dogma) above:

Did scientists predict an impending ice age in the 1970s?

http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm

Did global warming stop in 1998?

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-stopped-in-1998.htm

Solar activity & climate: is the sun causing global warming?

http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm

It's cosmic rays????

http://www.skepticalscience.com/cosmic-rays-and-global-warming.htm

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 6:32 am
Thannxxx... Chris.. there to are facts in the bible tooooooooo.. and that was writen long before science had anything in the say.. so perhaps it is time to agree that there is definitely something happening ... like labour pains these events are happening closer together..

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 8:30 am
Well, we had an exciting day yesterday with the pouring rain and floods. The water ran into our garage but didn't get into the house. We were lucky. Our whole street up to the houses was a raging river. The backyard was a pool. It was crazy. God only knows what real damage we incurred. I almost broke my neck going to the mailbox on the mud last night. I couldn't believe the mailman actually made it thru...neither rain, nor snow nor sleet nor dark of night....
Next project is to clean up all the debris. What a mess. Glad no trees came down. They were crashing into houses and cars everywhere. There are still sirens everywhere this morning. Roads are closed, evacuations, power outages...Public Works ran out of emergency signs indicating flooded and closed roads, and began acquiring more from the city of San Jose...I don't know why they bothered, all of ours floated away...

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 11:23 am
"The same jerks who predict the end of the world by heat also predicted an ice age in the 1970s."

Really? Well, at least they were willing to change their minds in the light of new evidence, unlike Judy, who takes a position and never changes it, evidence be damned. And no, assertions by bloggers at WorldNetDaily are not evidence!

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 2:38 pm
Thank you Nancy for re-posting this story on my dear friend Denise - Much appreciated

Bob Williamson
Greenhouse Neutral Foundation
http://www.greenhouseneutralfoundation.org

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 3:16 pm
No more can be said on this topic except for to enjoy Miss Judy Cross' off the wall ranting comments....

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 5:04 pm
Each year, more of the polar bears are drowning, because -- the warmer sea temperatures are not only melting the sea ice, but also delaying the onset of Autumn (Fall) in the region, so there is a much longer period of ice-free sea than the animals can endure. They are so desperate to find food after so many months of fsting that they try to swim to the hunting grounds (sea ice) which are further and further away, and being so thin and weak after waiting so long for winter, they cannot make the journey of maybe 100 miles, and drown. It is so sad.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 5:14 pm
If global warming is making you cold? Its because the melting ice sheets falling into the sea are changing the currents that control all weather on the planet. The cold water sinks to the bottom. Its fresh water too, so the warm salt water goes to the top. As the earth rotates, the patterns are changed. A better name for global warming is climate chaos! The only reason that London is not as cold as Canada -- look at its latitude-- is because in the UK we have been warmed by the North Atlantic Drift (the Gulf Stream)-- but with the ice caps melting that has moved Westwards and we are now experiencing cold wet summers and some freaky winters. The same kind of thing is causing the more intense hurricanes in the SE of USA eg Hurricane Katrina. I am very sorry for the lady whose house is pictured. It will certainly happen to a lot more people and soon ... maybe to Judy Cross.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 5:18 pm
Guys judy doenst know any better...in her lost little mind her wisdom is infinate...

Big Gorilly Hugs

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 6:53 pm
What we need to look at is the incidence of "rogue" weather for want of a better name. What is the frequency of unusual snowfall in Florida and Georgia from year to year? The number of days it snows entirely across the continent. The product of days times area a region is covered with ice; the temperature oscillating between -2 and +2 C in daily melting and freezing cycles. These are all phenomena caused by the loss of protection from the air currents over the Arctic ice.

Keeping in mind that it would have to b very hot on the planet indeed for it not to snow and make ice. In contrast to other scenery snow totally reflects sunlight. Now I have no idea what effect one month of North America completely covered with snow would have on the following years. But it is entirely possible
for it to snow but initially without temperature falling below - 5 C. How much would the ocean cool with say,
a 100 square mile chunk of ice breaking off from Antarctica.

What is certain is that with the heating phenomena chaos is increasing. We should encourage more people to go into univerities and then go mountain climbing and out into the ocean to do this kind of research.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 7:35 pm
Chris posts the Aussie in the Ether...the guy with no credentials he considers some kind of authority to make fun of a PhD in astrophysics, who has been researching the effect of sunspots and cosmic rays for 20 years and just finished up work at the most prestigious particle physics lab in Europe.

Really, you climate trolls make me laugh~

"Svensmark's theory has gained support from the Europe's particle physics research centre (CERN) in Geneva.

"If you actually increase the amount of aerosol - these cloud condensation nuclei - then you don't increase the amount of water vapour in the sky, but you do distribute it over more droplets and smaller droplets," said Jasper Kirkby, a physicist at CERN.

"The amount of water is the same, but it's spread out over more droplets.

"The net effect is that the cloud actually lives longer, because it doesn't 'rain out' so easily - the smaller droplets don't sediment out so quickly.

"It's also brighter and very much more reflective, which very much affects the radiative energy balance on Earth."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3036032.stm

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 7:42 pm
How is the dispute you report material to the subject? Do you have a Ph d ? Are you a newspaper reporter?
You sent me the message but what has it to do with what I said?

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 7:58 pm
Frank, I wasn't answering you. I was still talking to Chris.

But it is relevant to the subject because the sun is very quiet right now, no sunspots and that contributes to shading the earth so that the sun's light bounces off instead of warming the earth. That makes it cooler and I guess that changes weather too.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 11:22 pm
Mitigating pollution and climate change would be less expensive and more productive than having to alleviate the effects of climate change. Insurance is not going to be able to cover all its effects -- that is, if people even have insurance. Droughts, floods and storms could cause more problems than we could possibly clean up or fix.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 11:33 pm
"But it is relevant to the subject because the sun is very quiet right now, no sunspots and that contributes to shading the earth so that the sun's light bounces off instead of warming the earth."

This makes no sense at all from a scientific point of view. What exactly is the sunlight "bouncing off" -- the earth's surface or the atmosphere or something else? If the sun's light was "bouncing off" the earth we would be dead. Is any photosynthesis happening when the "sun's light" is "bouncing off" the earth? You saying that the sun isn't warming the earth? That is completely ridiculous. What is "shading" the earth -- for there to be "shading" there has to be something in between the sun and the earth. In fact, sunspot activity has very little to do with the earth's surface temperature.


"That makes it cooler and I guess that changes weather too." So we do have "weather" change after all? So we have another problem? What should be done about it?

Thursday October 15, 2009, 10:15 am
"The same jerks who predict the end of the world by heat also predicted an ice age in the 1970s"

I take it you didnt watch the Al Gore film about climate change. It explained it very well. Global warming can stop the normal ocean currents that warm the northern lattitudes and actually trigger an ice age. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 10:20 am
Ok lets look at global warming from a different perspective. Ok so what if the global warming theory is totally bogus and totally wrong? Is it really going to hurt things to keep a bunch of pollution out of the atmostphere? Is it really a bad thing to try to keep greenhouse gasses out of the air? We still have to breath the stuff. And if we are right they MY GOD do you really want to take a chance that they earth might be unliveable in a few years? The ones that boo hoo global warming are the ones who stand to make profit from the oil and coal industry. They are the ones spreading the misinformation because they don't want to lose their huge profits. They would rather see the earth a barren dessert in a few years than lose out on their short term profit margins.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 10:33 am
Obviously you have no idea that Gore's film was shown to be "inaccurate" and a British court ruled that it could not be shown in schools without correction.

You also seem to have swallowed the GoreBull whole...without anything to counter it.
This film was produced by the CBC before it was forced to get in line with the scam.

Global Warming...Doomsday Called Off 1-5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr5O1HsTVgA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD6VBLlWmCI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZS2eIRkcR0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIbTJ6mhCqk&feature=video_response

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2XALmrq3ro&feature=related

I did watch Gore's film...and since I had studied clinical hypnosis, I realized it started out with an hypnotic induction...which is why people came out of that movie in a dazed and convinced state.

35 Inconvenient Truths
The errors in Al Gore’s movie
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/monckton/goreerrors.html

You might want to educate yourself and stop confusing destructive propaganda with science.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 3:02 pm
About the sun reflecting etc -- at present some of the sun's heat and light is being bounced into the atmosphere (just like folks wear white clothes to keep a little cooler when its really hot) but just as you would really suffer the heat if you went out in the sun dressed in black- because black absorbs light-- so as the glaciers melt, there is less ice and more sea -- and sea is very dark blue from space,so the more the ice melts, the more sea there is, the more sun's heat is kept on the planet, the more the sea warms, the more the ice melts etc-- a vicious circle forever speeding up.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 3:08 pm
By the way, Frank -- sadly that snow all across the US ain't gonna happen! Even the snow that should be falling in the Rockies in the winter,and being washed down to the Hoover Dam, is not happening, because of global warming. If a person thinks I am lying, she can look up Lake Mead on the net, and will see this is what the Water Authorities are saying. Anyone can go to Lake Mead themselves and see the different colour rocks indicating a massive drop in water levels year on year.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 3:12 pm
i went to lake mead two years ago -something every non believer should see -almost dream like -my emotions over took me -every thing they warned us about in the 70's elementary schools has litteraly come true.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 3:13 pm
They will just dipute it susan even though she doesnt even live there...LOL

Big Gorilly Hugs

Thursday October 15, 2009, 8:12 pm
I didn't mention Al Gore. I asked you to answer questions about your unscientific and nonsensicial claims about the sun and earth, which you couldn't.