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Havasupai Can Sue Over Blood Tests By ASU, UA

Society & Culture  (tags: indians, Native American Rights, americans, culture, crime, dishonesty, education, corruption, abuse, freedoms, government, interesting, religion, politics, news, rights, society )

- 3486 days ago -
Arizona's Havasupai Tribe has been given the go-ahead to sue the state university system over claims that researchers improperly used blood samples of its members, including to undermine tribal beliefs.

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kat yazzie (400)
Monday December 1, 2008, 5:41 am

. (0)
Monday December 1, 2008, 5:46 am
The researchers broke a legal contract with the tribe when they used the blood in ways not intended. No one has the right to do that and they should be held accountable for that.

But the fact that this tribe's ancestors originally migrated from Asia was already known to science since all American Indian ancestors originally migrated from there. Science has proven many tenets of many religious to be false. And religious belief should always give way to scientific fact.

Pamylle G (461)
Monday December 1, 2008, 5:50 am
This goes against the terms of the original consent, and shows a profound disrespect.

Lone W (1428)
Monday December 1, 2008, 6:06 am

kat yazzie (400)
Monday December 1, 2008, 6:07 am
Personally, I ALWAYS put the Creator first, before anything, Lindsey. But we each have the right to our own choices and opinions...

Past Member (0)
Monday December 1, 2008, 7:00 am


. (0)
Monday December 1, 2008, 7:18 am
I feel that by revealing the truth, science is "putting the creator first" for his/her believers. Because any creator of the universe also birthed the reality of that universe. And if science uncovers that reality it is also uncovering and illuminating any creator's handiwork and methodology.

Kit B (276)
Monday December 1, 2008, 8:04 am
Legal contract or not, it was anticipated by those involved that the blood would be used for the study of diabetes, further inquiry using that blood should first have been addressed to the individuals supplying the blood. I don't see much of a religion question here, other than what the attorneys will make it, for greater gain. I do however, see this as part of the larger question that affects all of us. How often is this done everyday? How can we know? If we each do not have the right to determine our own bodies, then who will? The government? I don't think that because a question of science is a point of curiosity that my blood, or parts of me that may be frozen, should trample my rights unless or until I agree. This seems a question of ethics. Some of the contributor's may have agreed, had they been asked to participate. Lindsey is correct, the information being sought has long been a staple of understanding of human migratory movements.

kat yazzie (400)
Monday December 1, 2008, 8:08 am
Kit, the religious aspect comes into play when you understand these Tribes Religious/Spiritual beliefs, especially concerning the human body...

Past Member (0)
Monday December 1, 2008, 8:11 am
This is not right. Noted thanks Kat.

sue M (184)
Monday December 1, 2008, 8:18 am
It is one thing to take the blood for other motives but to do what they did to prove their religious beliefs wrong is pure evil. When you take away a belief system that someone has for such a time and not replace it with something else that is comparable you can have devastating results. These people should very well be sued and made an example for others who would attempt the same!
This is a total break in rights.

. (0)
Monday December 1, 2008, 8:31 am
I thoroughly agree, Sue, that the researchers had no right to do DNA testing that wasn't agreed upon in the beginning. And I hope the tribe wins a judgment against them for that fraud.

But scientific knowledge frequently disturbs the religious belief of various adherents. Just as the knowledge that the earth is in fact billions of years old disturbs the beliefs of young-earth creationists. And as evolution disturbs the beliefs of fundamentalists of many different faiths. And with new understanding comes, or should come, changes in religious tenets (just as the Catholic Church now accepts evolution as the means by which Jehovah brought forth life on this planet.)

All religion should be about the search for the truth. And each succeeding generation builds on that because our knowledge of reality is always imperfect. But with new discoveries come greater understanding and less imperfection.

sue M (184)
Monday December 1, 2008, 8:59 am
Yes, they do Lindsey but at the same time wouldn't the people be aware that a scientific experiment was occurring since it involved them and what they believed? Asked questions etc., The data with evolution came slowly not all at once to shock the socks off of people per se. It would be like aliens landing at the White house - okay that isn't a great example there are aliens in the White House!

. (0)
Monday December 1, 2008, 9:13 am
Actually, the data which proves American Indians originally came from Asia has been with us for a long time. So there's nothing new and startling about it. This data is just more confirmation of what is already known. And, as always, the people involved should not have been part of any testing unless they knowingly consented to it first. Which they didn't.

Lyta V (36)
Monday December 1, 2008, 9:38 am
THERESE MARKOW: The University of Arizona professor said in 2005 that she was only trying to understand “the biological underpinnings of the health issues of the Havasupai.” What a load of crap, she was into pursuing grants to forward her academic career, period. She knowingly with intent to steal another's individuals rights, breached a contract and having done so deserves to lose her credentials. The college, as in all organizations, where she was allowed to obtain access to those blood samples, will be also part of the breach, had there been proper security she would not have been able to use them for her own gain. A good judge however, will rate her culpability much higher than the college's. I don't believe the religious portion will survive the suit however. As Lindsey pointed out the information is already out there.

. (0)
Monday December 1, 2008, 9:44 am
Kit B. tried to post this herself but for some reason couldn't get it to post. So I'm doing it for her.

From Kit B:

"Seems to me the legal question here is not about religion. It is about the ethical and civil rights violations involved. Since I can't seem to post there will you be my voice? In a court of law I seriously doubt the jury would be made of only the Havasupai, therefore the real legal questions are whether or not there was in fact a breech of ethics and civil rights."

sue M (184)
Monday December 1, 2008, 9:46 am
Yes, You are right Lindsey but as you say they could have perhaps changed their beliefs in some way in line with that. Either way none of this is right and Christy you bring up an excellent point! She should have her credentials revoked. It states Schizophrenia so the pharmaceutical companies would have been involved there. They are already in big trouble with handouts to doctors.

sue M (184)
Monday December 1, 2008, 9:49 am
Absolutely Kit! There is definite breech if the story is fully correct in it's reporting.

Lyta V (36)
Monday December 1, 2008, 9:58 am
The saddest part is, what did the contract actually state or was the one? Will free classes be considered sufficient remuneration? Quite often despite verbal assurances, the actual contract signed takes precedence over verbal assurance. I hope there were contracts and they stated the usage properly so these tribal members will not find themselves again ravaged by the "system." As has been often found in cases such as theft of civil rights, the only consideration that forces change is considerable monetary losses. You slap any organization with less than a tiny percentage of what they make in a day, they are hardly going to stop breaking the law. Look at Ford and the Pinto. There is also the likelihood this is the only way they could get a lawyer to take the case. I hope that's not true.

Dometria Lanauze (6)
Monday December 1, 2008, 10:02 am
Heya, Kate: It never ceases to amaze me how these so-called scientists and archeologists refuse to acknowledge or recognize that all First Nation tribes have always held onto their ancient code of honour, ethics and that they do possess a highly intuitive connection with their ancestral beginnings.
Contrary to standard Historical clap trap, not all, if any Native Peoples came over the Bering Strait.I never swallowed that line anyway.
The ancestral origins of the Havasupai are more aligned with their Anasazi ancestors who were connected with and may have initially migrated from or traded with the Pre-Incas, from the area of Peru. The Four Corners area is full of Petroglyphs which clearly show the pictures of animals such as Guanacos, genetic cousins of the Llamas, that are only indigenous to the Andes. I've seen these Petroglyphs above Pueblo Bonito in Chaco Canyon.
There does also still exist certain tribal groups who have not intermarried outside their clans, The Hopi who are very explicit in their creation story describe where they are derived from, which is further south and have never married outside their clans. Even when the Spanish first came through their Homeland, looking for the seven Cities of Gold and spreading their demonic religion, in the early 1500's,The Hopi maintained their purity at all costs.
When will the Waschicos realize that there are other cultures who hold Truth and honour as paramount virtues, above all else..
I do hope that the case is settled and that the tribal leaders do get the respect and Justice they deserve.
Nun wah doe he yah duh/ Peace in our Quest for Truth

. (0)
Monday December 1, 2008, 11:34 am
That is the whole idea: the search for verifiable truth. Which, in this case, seems to be settled in favor of the Asian migration. If and when better and more credible scientific evidence is found rebutting that then the issue should be reopened.

. (0)
Monday December 1, 2008, 11:38 am
And Dometria, they may well be connected with the Peruvian nations, who also migrated there from Asia. All of the Americas (North, Central, and South) were populated through that migration. They did not originate in the Americas.

Thelma Sumpter (30)
Monday December 1, 2008, 12:46 pm
Noted thanks Kat.

. (0)
Monday December 1, 2008, 1:20 pm
go get em thank you

RosemaryRannes HusbandNeedsPrayers (650)
Monday December 1, 2008, 2:15 pm

Donn M (56)
Monday December 1, 2008, 8:10 pm
If there was a breach of contract, and was there a written contract?, then the tribe should receive some compensation. But trying to imply that this research led to some horrible shock regarding the tribe's religion and cultural beliefs seems a little far out there. Like Lindsey said, this information (that American Indian's ancestors migrated from Asia) has been around for a long time. This proof only makes it a little harder to ignore.

Henry P (171)
Monday December 1, 2008, 8:55 pm
Thanks Kat.

sue M (184)
Tuesday December 2, 2008, 1:12 am
Donni I was not impyling I was only making a statement as to what that could do to people. It does not matter whether it has already been done. It is the intention behind the deed.

Donn M (56)
Tuesday December 2, 2008, 3:06 pm
I have no problem with your comment Sue. I was actually commenting on a statement made in the article, and yes it would be disturbing to have actual scientific proof specifically regarding yourself that challenged long held beliefs. Instead of just the general idea that Indian ancestors migrated from somewhere else. I don't believe the intention behind the research was to specifically hurt these people by challenging their beliefs, that was an unfortunate byproduct of the results of the research. Anyway, I believe the real issue here was using the blood for this research without the permission of the donors involved.

. (0)
Tuesday December 2, 2008, 3:48 pm
And in the end, Donni's right. The real issue is that the people of that tribe supposedly did not give consent for the blood to be used in that fashion. If true, they have every right to sue for breach of contract and fraud. Perhaps a large judgment against the researchers will convince others in the future not to do the same thing again (probably won't, but one can always hope.)

. (0)
Tuesday December 2, 2008, 5:53 pm
Maybe if we ignore him he will go away....
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