Tuesday September 8, 2009, 2:42 pm
May I also suggest reading Custer Died for Your Sins by Vine Deloria, Jr.

Tuesday September 8, 2009, 2:57 pm
Great reading post. Thanks David.

Tuesday September 8, 2009, 3:02 pm


The following are exerpts from "The Lodge Pole Massacre Site (Washita, 1868): A Cheyenne Enigma", by John Sipes, Southern Cheyenne Historian, that was published in the Watonga Republican Newspaper, on Jan. 15, 1997.

On Nov. 27, 1868, Custer and the Seventh Cavalry charged into a Cheyenne village on the Washita River in Indian Territory. The result was a massacre of children, women and elders of the tribe and the total destruction of their camp by burning.

The horses owned by the Cheyenne were slaughtered. George A. Custer chose to attack the village and murder women and children. Thus he also chose his manner of death, by massacre in 1876 at the Little Big Horn River.

In October, 1867, Major Elliott led an escort of advisors to the Medicine Lodge Creek in Kansas. Here the infamous Medicine Lodge Creek Treaty was signed. Congress did not act on the treaty until July, 1868.
Up to this time the Cheyennes had waited for provisions promised and they never arrived.
During this tense time on the plains, Gen. Phillip Sheridan took command of the Dept. of the Missouri, U.S. Army, in March 1868. Disputes were soon reported involving the Cheyennes. The Cheyenne felt they had once again been betrayed by yet another treaty and were for lack of promised provisions by the Government

[...]
Custer followed this trail to the Cheyenne camp and when three of his scouts located the exact location of the camp the plan of attack was set in motion. He surrounded the camp and at dawn on Nov. 27, 1868, he attacked the sleeping camp.

This camp was headed by Chief Black Kettle, a Suhtia, who had married into the Cheyenne band of his wife.
Black Kettle had no wolves (scouts) out to guard the sleeping village and the sleeping village was unaware of the attack and slaughter of the people that was to happen.
(Standing Bird oral history states--- Man on Cloud to Measure Woman Standing Bird to Cleo Sipes and Woodrow Goose to John Sipes) "that Iron Shirt and Man on Cloud with a small scouting party came to Black Kettles village before Custer surrounded the village, warning Black Kettle of troop movement from Camp Supply toward the vicinity of the village."

What followed was a massacre of the people from the pregnant Cheyenne women being cut open at the womb and babies left on the frozed ground dead with their mothers. Women, children and elders alike were shot down as at a turkey shoot.

Custer took 52 captives back to Camp Supply and they were later transfered to Ft. Hayes, Kansas, as prisoners of war.

Thus this needless massacre just four years almost to the date later from the Sand Creek Massacre and to the very same bands and families nearly wiped out this extended kinships of families that had survived the Sand Creek Massacre in 1864 in southeastern Colorado.

(Sipes Cheyenne Files- Lodge Pole River (Washita) Massacre)
According to George Bent these people were murdered at the Lodge Pole Massacre, (Washita) 1868.
Black Kettle, Suhtai Council Chief;
Little Rock, Cheyenne Council Chief.

There were 11 warriors killed:
Bear Tongue
Tall Bear
Blind Bear
White Bear
Cranky Man
Blue Horse
Red Teeth
Little Heart
Red Bird
Hawk
were among them.
1 Arapaho and 2 Siouxs (Lakotas) were killed in Black Kettles camp.

16 Women and 9 children were killed.
Most were shot down running toward the icy Washita River or shot while trying to get across the stream.
There was little chance of escape. Yet those that did escape were fortunate and several were wounded, mostly little children.

Many families that escaped from the Sand Creek Massacre four years earlier died or were wounded at the Lodge Pole River Massacre as the deliberate genocide upon the Cheyennes continued in November of 1868.


(Standing Bird Oral History- John Sipes Collection-Lodge Pole Massacre (Washita 1868)

( Family Oral Stories In Interviews And Stories Told To John Sipes On Sand Creek Massacre (1864) and the Lodge Pole (Washita) Massacre (1868) By Family Elders):

[...]

++++++++++++++++++++++

Tuesday September 8, 2009, 3:08 pm
The following are exerpts from "The Lodge Pole Massacre Site (Washita, 1868): A Cheyenne Enigma", by John Sipes, Southern Cheyenne Historian, that was published in the Watonga Republican Newspaper, on Jan. 15, 1997.
On Nov. 27, 1868, Custer and the Seventh Cavalry charged into a Cheyenne village on the Washita River in Indian Territory. The result was a massacre of children, women and elders of the tribe and the total destruction of their camp by burning.
The horses owned by the Cheyenne were slaughtered. George A. Custer chose to attack the village and murder women and children. Thus he also chose his manner of death, by massacre in 1876 at the Little Big Horn River.

The horses owned by the Cheyenne were slaughtered. George A. Custer chose to attack the village and murder women and children. Thus he also chose his manner of death, by massacre in 1876 at the Little Big Horn River.
In October, 1867, Major Elliott led an escort of advisors to the Medicine Lodge Creek in Kansas. Here the infamous Medicine Lodge Creek Treaty was signed. Congress did not act on the treaty until July, 1868.
Up to this time the Cheyennes had waited for provisions promised and they never arrived.
During this tense time on the plains, Gen. Phillip Sheridan took command of the Dept. of the Missouri, U.S. Army, in March 1868. Disputes were soon reported involving the Cheyennes. The Cheyenne felt they had once again been betrayed by yet another treaty and were for lack of promised provisions by the Government.
Orders were sent to Agent Wynkoop to use his best judgement in the case of issuing supplies. The order came too late.
The Cheyennes were now warring on the Pawnees and settlers in the land they considered theirs.
On Nov. 22, 1868, Custer received orders from Sheridan to leave Camp Supply on a 30 day scouting mission. When Custer reached the Canadian River he sent Major Elliott upstream to scout. Twelve miles upstream he came on a fresh Indian trail and notified Custer. Custer ordered him to follow the trail.Custer headed south and found the trail and left his pack train of supplies there with a guard.
When Custer reached the trail Elliott had already passed this point and went into camp to wait for Custer and Custer caught up to them in the camp.
Custer followed this trail to the Cheyenne camp and when three of his scouts located the exact location of the camp the plan of attack was set in motion. He surrounded the camp and at dawn on Nov. 27, 1868, he attacked the sleeping camp.
This camp was headed by Chief Black Kettle, a Suhtia, who had married into the Cheyenne band of his wife.
Black Kettle had no wolves (scouts) out to guard the sleeping village and the sleeping village was unaware of the attack and slaughter of the people that was to happen.
(Standing Bird oral history states--- Man on Cloud to Measure Woman Standing Bird to Cleo Sipes and Woodrow Goose to John Sipes) "that Iron Shirt and Man on Cloud with a small scouting party came to Black Kettles village before Custer surrounded the village, warning Black Kettle of troop movement from Camp Supply toward the vicinity of the village."
What followed was a massacre of the people from the pregnant Cheyenne women being cut open at the womb and babies left on the frozed ground dead with their mothers. Women, children and elders alike were shot down as at a turkey shoot.
Custer took 52 captives back to Camp Supply and they were later transfered to Ft. Hayes, Kansas, as prisoners of war.

The rest of that story from first hand Native American accounts regarding Custer and that 7th Cavelry are here:
http://home.epix.net/~landis/washita.html
Custer was a government sanctioned butcher no matter how many other "nice" things he did.Custer was not the only one by large he just was the most famous.Funny they call the massacre of women and children ,Elders,and dogs,a battle ,while they call Custers Last Stand against warriors a massacre.A great movie done on this had Dustin Hoffman in it and it is called Little Big Man.

Tuesday September 8, 2009, 3:10 pm
Bridgett tooooo funny!!! we were at the samer site same time and posted right behind the other HAHAHAHAHA U first Bridgett GRIN !

Tuesday September 8, 2009, 3:17 pm
Indeed Custer was an eejit as anyone with a brain can discover if they visit the "monument" [sic] and see the lay of the land and learn how 'monumentally' STUPID Custer really was. No surprise then that near the end of LOSING the battle, "Yellowhair" cut his long, yellow hair down near to the roots and tried to darken it. But the WINNERS weren't STUPID like Yellowhair and easily discovered who he really was.... Oh - and when you're there make sure to have some Indian tacos in celebration of the WINNERS, eh?! ;) [Btw, Custer is not MY "grandfather!" :D]

Tuesday September 8, 2009, 11:39 pm
David i appreciate this news story ... Custer was no hero he was a savage killer of innocent human beings! His place in history is one of condemnation not admiration! i get your point also. And thanks to Brigette and faith for being on the same 'wavelength' ...lol ... great minds think alike :-)

Wednesday September 9, 2009, 1:44 am
Custer was definitely American but *not* a hero... Heroes don't allow or encourage massacres of innocent populations.

It was funny to see the Washita testimony posted by two of us almost at the same time:)

Except for the fact that the name Washita and what happened always makes me so sad. And angry. I can't believe that many people still view Custer as a hero. That weirdos have websites to honor him.

It is also a paradox that many Americans think of Bin Laden as the worst terrorist on the planet, yet to them Custer will always be a hero.

With such heroes as Custer, no wonder so many Americans were willing to support Bushes' strikes against overseas sovereign countries, with all the mass murdering involved, and ask for more even today.

Many greens stars for David for bringing up the issue and to all for the comments!

Wednesday September 9, 2009, 2:09 am
Little credit is given to the plains Indians for their bravery and ingenuity.They fought for their land,childrens,way of life.Sitting Bull and CrazyHorse were the daring leaders.The reason for sending in the US.Army into sioux country was to force them onto reservations.It was the US.Govt who broke the treaty signed between the US.Govt and Sioux again and again.For the greed of finding Gold in the Black hills.As for Custer,I heard he was a butcher,killing women and children.Also heard he committed sucide rather then face humilitation.Judging by his looks he looks like a pathetic loser,not the dashing hero people make him out to be.I would have gladly fought alongside these brave warriors,but I was born at a different time.

Wednesday September 9, 2009, 2:42 am
As an Australian (Ex Kiwi) I fail to understand why the American Indian has such a tiny place in American history?...These people were obviously a great and rightfully proud people with souls to match...They fought to keep their sanity despite the overpowering odds...

But like all indigeonous people they were overcome and driven away with firepower they could not match...

The warlike Maoris of New Zealand won great respect from their imperial conqurers and did not give their land away, they sold it...The Australian Aboriginees were all but exterminated because they do not have a warlike bone in their beautiful bodies...(something very much to be admired in the days of the absurd Iraq/Afghanistan invasion)...

Why then is the American indian fighting to simply survive?...They deserve much more than that!...Help them, why don't you?...

Wednesday September 9, 2009, 3:07 am
Thanks David. Yes I have been there and it's kind of eerie. He must have hated Indians and as far as I'm concerned he got what he deserved. I certainly don't think of him as a hero.

Wednesday September 9, 2009, 10:39 am
Heroes are honorable people. Custer was vain, arrogant and out for himself.. Thanks David..

Wednesday September 9, 2009, 1:25 pm
Custer was an arrogant self serving murderer who got what he gave. However we are overlooking what created men like Custard. Our goverment policies at the time lying repeatedly to all tribes and breaking all treaty's. Why? Because the rich influential moguls behind the scenes increasing their fortunes with insider help from insiders who controlled our policies and I'm sure they got their piece of the pie baked with blood.
The more things change the more they stay the same. Haliburton...Blackwater...
Thanks for listening, John H.

Wednesday September 9, 2009, 1:38 pm
The atrocities committed in the Indian wars are no different from those committed in Vietnam or Iraq. The only difference with Custer he appeared to condone and encourage the brutality of his troops whereas more recent military leaders have attempted tp distance themselves from the actions of a minority of bad apples. Custer from all I've read certainly appeared to have an ego the size of Texas. The present day suppression of the Firsy Nations is more underhanded and subtle with marginalisation and descrimination used overtly to keep them swept under the white mans carpet with all his other bad deeds and broken promise! As Barbara quit rightly says Heroes are honourable people not brutish, vain, arrogant, and self serving!

Wednesday September 9, 2009, 6:49 pm
The atrocities in Vietnam,Iraq,Afghanistan, and every other war were caused by frustration, losing it mentally,and just plain bad apples. What we did to the Indians was by design.
John

Wednesday September 9, 2009, 9:02 pm
A very bad design John...But no worse than the hideous profiteering wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Pakistan and Iran?...Where to next?...Money is fun, war and premature death is not?

Wednesday September 9, 2009, 10:06 pm
David ,of course a very bad design and like I said before nothing has really changed but we eliminated the American Indian to simply exist where they had for centuries. We took over permanately. In Iraq,Pakistan, Afghanistan ,and Iran we are not there to kill everybody and have Americans take over and live there forever.It's all evil and greed and different agendas but it is different from what we did to Native Americans..
Do you see my point David? John

Wednesday September 9, 2009, 11:52 pm
I have studied this for many years and there is no that Custer was anymore than a national SHAME!!!!!

Thursday September 10, 2009, 3:37 am
"Kathleen", I think everyone here agrees with you.
John

Thursday September 10, 2009, 5:18 pm
Hi everybody. First of all, please, forgive my English. I am Brazilian and I am very interested in this topic because I am witnessing everything happen again here. The first point is that the history is always written by the conquerors. From what I have read, Custer was a stubborn mad man. But he was not the only one. What about Gen.Sheridan, Gen Carleton, Kit Carson and so many others? What went wrong was that Custer was defeated by the Sioux+Cheyennes+Arapahos. It hit the American pride.
However, in my opinion, they (those Generals) were mere caricatures of the people at that time. They kept on massacring supported by people's approval. They were even considered heroes.
I am not criticizing the American people, for the same are happening here in Brazil. Instead of weapons, the Brazilian governments have been using bad policies and corruption. There were many famous battles between Native Brazilians and whites in the past since 1500 (when Brazil were "discovered" by the Portugueses). But what have killed the most were "white diseases", and now the Natives are still being driven out their lands, dieing of hunger and of many diseases. Besides, the suicide rate is very high, specially among young Natives. White people know it happens but almost nobody moves a finger against that situation and some are even for it.
I see many things in common between the Native American history to what is happening in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan. It does not care if the "conquerors" stay long or not - the problem is what they want to take from this countries. Yesterday was the Gold Rush, today can be the Oil Rush, for instance.
Thank you all for your patience in reading my point of view.

Thursday September 10, 2009, 5:38 pm
David B, Please take notice of Ana's article. She is talking about the"Guarani Kaiowa Indians " that I wrote to you about. We can't change what happened to the Native Americans but we have time to change this or at least improve it. Your Blog could start things rolling and other Bloggers like Dar D.could help this cause greatly.Thank you Ana for a well written article. Your English is good enough considering it's not your primary language. John H.

Thursday September 10, 2009, 5:45 pm
John, the Guarani Kaiowá situation is just ONE among many others of the same type.

Thursday September 10, 2009, 7:00 pm
Thank you so much, Ana Kristina Ribeiro - for sharing your very accurate analysis re: Custer & the Generals - they had support, they were not "rogues" but had been preened and encouraged to do what they did, with plenty of tax-money and private backing.

Thank you for giving your information regarding Brazil. People in the USA are only made aware of Spanish-speaking countries in S.America; they are kept totally ignorant and unaware of Brazil even though Brazil is the MOST diverse ocuntry in the WORLD - and largest country in S.America, absolutely. I have taught myself some Brazilian Portuguese and have had some small access to Brazilian TV via Satellite. Also I have an acquaintance from Rio whose Mother was Tupi from NE Brazil. I have learned something of the revolutionary politics of the NE, and of the culture there - the music and dance also, as I am a singer/songwriter/performer. Brazil has so many indigenous people in such varieties of land-areas and with so many traditions - and also, with such crucial spiritual/environmental/survival wisdom. But GREED & STUPIDITY are arrayed against them, just as they have been and are here against Native/Indigenous people. I hope that you will share more with the rest of us on Care2. Obrigada!

Thursday September 10, 2009, 7:39 pm
I am planning to take advantage of this site and share some "stories" about Native Brazilians. They are interesting because the newborn Native Brazilian Movement is taking its first steps. But I need some time to prepare my texts. As I told you, I am Brazilian, and sometimes it takes me time to find a way to express myself clearly.

Tuesday September 15, 2009, 5:50 pm
thank you for the story Ana Kristina, and welcome to the nieghborhood!!

Tuesday September 15, 2009, 6:15 pm
I concur,welcome to the neighborhood. You are a remarkable woman.
John H.