Friday October 9, 2009, 3:31 pm
The president did more to unite the muslim world with us in one hour during his Cairo speech than most world leaders achieved in a lifetime. Lebanon voted Hesbalah out after the Cairo speech. Just three weeks ago, Obama got all world leaders to agree to reduce and eliminate nukes. JOB WELL DONE.

PRIZE EARNED (no matter what jealous spiteful people who get to submit article on this site think.)

Friday October 9, 2009, 3:44 pm
"PRIZE EARNED (no matter what jealous spiteful people who get to submit article on this site think.)"

AMAZING!...5 notes and a comment in 3 minutes...You beat me to the following note Dragonfly :-)...

I congratulate Obama to the max...It's a shame that this is the only peace award he has received, he deserves more!

I posted this thread because, although I believe that Obama will become the greatest President the U.S. has ever known, I also believe that he cannot 'do it alone' and could do with a little help from his friends?...Us?

Friday October 9, 2009, 3:49 pm
Yes he definatly needs all of us and I do mean everyone...even the ones who disslike him the most...

Big goirlly Hugs

Friday October 9, 2009, 3:53 pm
Explanation?...

Obama has inherited a bigger mess (war, econononic meltdown, a rotten healthcare system etc, etc) than any other President, and while attempting to clean it up has no help from those who created the mess, in fact quite the opposite, and so it will take time...Be patient?

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:01 pm
Thanx David I have to agree with you. Its just as Obama himself has admitted...he didn't deserve it, and didn't match up to the past recipients. He stood by silent while the Gaza massacre carried on day after day. Job well done my a**! AND what change has occurred in Middle East? Nothing for Peace just a lot of meaningless rhetoric in Cairo for those ready and willing to be Hypnotised. And the Iraq photos? Hidden safely from critical eyes...no justice there..after all what justice can Iraqis expect from US?! Israeli NUKES hidden by him also Afghanistan bloodshed, Pakistan Bloodshed and the list goes on and on...ooops forgot to mention Leonard Peltier still in jail..30 yrs now no evidence, bit closer to home that one.
I'm not jealous or spiteful just tell it like it is and maybe the view from outside the US is somewhat less deluded.

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:04 pm
Obama didnt start all this mess going on around the world...He is trying his best to change it...why wont anyone realize that???

Gorilly

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:09 pm
Yes he inherited a mess he knew that, he also knew that if he chose the same old individuals to "Help" him he would be in the same old stew. He is not in charge, the banksters are.

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:12 pm
Maybe that Prize will force the US gov to live up to it? what d'you think...I have a dream!

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:15 pm
Well I despise the banksters...Elderberry I must admit politics are NOT my strong points..sorry...for being so um uneducated...But I guess I still have hope for Obama...

Big Goirlly Hugs

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:15 pm
what a moronic headline, he inherited the wars...

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:25 pm
"Obama didnt start all this mess going on around the world...He is trying his best to change it...why wont anyone realize that???"...

I do Gorilly but also realise that he has one hell of a job to clean it up...Can he do it?...YES HE/WE CAN! :-)

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:29 pm
Obama may have been funded into the Presidency by the 'banksters' but he is nobodys fool and, no doubt, will shrug them off and do what he does best...Be a real person looking after real people. (Something unheard of in the past!)

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:38 pm
I do believe Obama received this award for what he wants to achieve rather than what he has acheived. President Obama has the task of undoing what a war mongering president did. Most of us realize that had Bush kept his eye on Afghanistan and it's people there would most likely be a calm and success never before seen. Instead, he (Bush) chose to start a war for nothing more than personal gain and national profit. Neither of which has been realized. Instead, we have a new president faced with the task of acheiving the goals(now unrealistic) of Afghanistan, and ending the war in Iraq, which should never have happened. I can only pray that Obama succeeds in his hopes for world peace.

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:43 pm
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to David because you have done so within the last week.

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:46 pm
Whether at some point President Obama was to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize remained to be seen and might have happened. I think it is premature and unfair to others more deserving right now for him to have received this award at this time. It is done and I will not argue it but I don't understand it entirely either. Just my opinion.

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:57 pm
Cheekilly he said :-)..."I truly think that Obama is capable of, and will do, such a great job of straightening out the mess Bushco (President Cheney) left him that even the Republicans will vote him back again in the hope of a better future"...Wouldn't that be great!?

Friday October 9, 2009, 5:29 pm
I'm a bit confused, I thought the Nobel Peace prize went to accomplishment and not hope and words or possible future deeds. I'm very glad he was very humble in his acceptance and I think even he felt a bit not in line for it at this time...his used words like surprised.
After all he is standing next to the likes of Nelson Mandela, Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King Jr., and the Dali Lama, who are past recipients. I'm not saying he hasn't done some important things in his life, but I'm not sure if past criterea used was met in this case.
Just my opinion...he won it, so I wish him well and Congratulations.

Friday October 9, 2009, 5:30 pm
Oh yes, he could get us out of Afghanistan and Iraq....that would make me feel a little better of him get the PEACE prize.

Friday October 9, 2009, 5:36 pm
Problem Dandelion?...Congratulations President Obama on the Nobel Peace Prize -- Now Please Earn it!...OK? :-)

Friday October 9, 2009, 5:47 pm
When they gave it to Al Gore for promoting a scam with a lying movie, one knew that the Peace Prize no longer has meaning.

"You have to hand it to President Obama. In one day he managed to win the Nobel Peace Prize for NOT being George W. Bush but instead for being just like Al Gore. In accepting the award, Obama literally aped, word for word, the now-discredited half-truths Gore has been preaching since losing the election to...George W. Bush. So we're giving him another award: Alarmist of the Week. The following is a direct quote from his Rose Garden speech he gave today:

“We cannot accept the growing threat posed by climate change, which could forever damage the world that we pass on to our children -- sowing conflict and famine; destroying coastlines and emptying cities. And that's why all nations must now accept their share of responsibility for transforming the way that we use energy.”
http://www.climatechangefraud.com/home/33-enviro-extremists/5315-alarmist-of-the-week-barack-obama

Friday October 9, 2009, 5:51 pm
I keep reading and reading, and thinking and thinking, and I say this: NO ONE IN THIS F$&*$* UP WORLD DESERVES ANYTHING FOR PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As I watch my youngest son marching off to war in Iraq TOMORROW, what do you think I think of this thread? Not much!

Friday October 9, 2009, 6:02 pm
WHY is he going Carrie?...To kill people to protect you?...Don't be silly, don't let him go!...Whatever happened to 'parental control'?

War is not good for you, me or anybody else...It really has gone too far and is time to stop!

BRING HOME THE TROOPS! and don't send any more...

Friday October 9, 2009, 6:05 pm
Yes Carrie, I agree! Last year I worked day and night pushing for Obama to be elected for President. Three weeks after he took office I was deflated and so sorry for all the people he has let down.

Friday October 9, 2009, 6:05 pm
Isn't it strange how some people are anti-war until their children join in and then become pro-war?...Baffles me.

Friday October 9, 2009, 6:19 pm
I personally think they gave him the prize because Oprah cried when he was elected. Simple as that!

Friday October 9, 2009, 6:48 pm
When I heard, I was thinking: the US is fighting 3 wars, soon maybe 4 or 5, so....???????
How can it be that Pres. Obama receive the Nobel Peace Price....

Again, its part of the scam to pacify people. I really want to believe in Obama. So to me, this is a time of testing. If he continues to fight for healthcare, and a peace plan in the middle east, then he might be genuine. But if he just comes up with very good ideas, and none come through, then I will know for sure that he is a corporate media creation.

By the way, Afred Nobel himself invented the tank, machine gun, land mines, etc. Just as he was about to kick the bucket, I guess he felt bad about his inventions, he proposed the Nobel Peace Price.

Friday October 9, 2009, 6:59 pm
David, I don't think military parents who are for peace, suddenly support war. They just quite simply support their children and hope for the best.

As far as President Obama doing such a great job that maybe next time round Republicans will even vote for him.......possibly......but unlikely. With all due respect :)

Friday October 9, 2009, 7:47 pm
President Obama has the task of undoing what a war mongering president did. Most of us realize that had Bush kept his eye on Afghanistan and it's people there would most likely be a calm and success never before seen. Instead, he (Bush) chose to start a war for nothing more than personal gain and national profit.

National profit is profiteering from death and dealing arms and war equipment that the Military Industrial Complex does so well..

Yea, sure David, seems like Obama is a war president, but he will change that perspective by what he does.

What is the way to respond to terrorism or bombs in air craft, subways, roadsides, trains, buses, or malls? I mean I don't like the military option as troops on the ground force. PERIOD. We need surgical special forces to hit good intel targets, but people need to make judgments and not kill civilians or innocents, as drones and cruise missiles do.

I think you fight the Taliban the same way you end the drug war: legalize them. Recognition and respect for the PEOPLE who are the Taliban and bring them into the U.N., meet with them in Afghanistan, meet some of there terms and they meet some of ours for trade or things they want. If you don't recognize them, they don't feel responsible for what they do to you. You treat them as they do not exist, then they can treat you as if they don't care what you want.

Mutual respect and learning each others limits is key to ending hostility and starting to build peace. Infrastructure and dealing with Al-Queada can ONLY be achieved by working with the people, including the Taliban.

One World - including people that hate the U.S. or Corporate American crimes against humanity -

Peace

Friday October 9, 2009, 7:50 pm
"As a Nobel laureate, President Obama has a special responsibility to speak up for activists jailed and persecuted for promoting human rights,” said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. “The president will honor his Nobel Prize when he puts a meaningful end to the debacle at Guantanamo, by trying or releasing all of the prisoners held there.”

Friday October 9, 2009, 8:43 pm
OBAMA: Stop the wars, change the climate, straighten out the economy, give healthcare to all, shut down gitmo, save the human rights activists, be carefull of the media and Oprah, look after Michelle, your kids and their dog, re-meet the globetrotting Dali Lama again (WHY, The King of no country), put out the garbage and wash behind your ears. AND ALL BEFORE MORNING COFFEE. AND DO IT NOW, we are watching you!

Thanks for finally ending the cold war with Russia. Thanks for attempting to open dialogue with Cuba, North Korea etc. Thanks for re-considering sending more troops to Afghanistan. Thanks for putting 'single payer' on the table. Thanks for partially restoring America's credibility in the eyes of the world and all the other wonderfull things you did for us while we were sleeping. But most of all thanks for being you and being there!

Congratulations on getting the peace prize, if only for dismantling the outrageous Bushco missile 'defense' system, befriending Russia and finally ending the cold war (That is ample reason for me but apparently not for some...And for being the most peacefully intended President we have ever had in the U.S.A. Of course you do realise that some of us will never be satisfied, don't you?

Enjoy your morning coffee and your well deserved award Obama...I care!

CONGRATULATIONS OBAMA, You're one hell of a lot better than Bush!

Friday October 9, 2009, 8:52 pm
OBAMA: I also note that not only are you being critisized here, but also Nobel who had a checkered past, but had the good sense to see the error of his ways, recanted and give a litte light to the world...I hope, for your sake, (and mine) that your armchair critics will also see that light, recant and help you out...After all, it is in their own interet to do so?

AMEN!

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:21 pm
Have you finished your coffee Obama?...OK, now hows about ridding the planet of nukes before lunch?...Russia has agreed to 'downgrade' their stockpile in co-operation with you but THAT"S NOT GOOD ENOUH FOR US!...Now get to it, you have two hours!

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:28 pm
Do you seriously believe that any one man is capable of stopping an out of control locomotive, instantly, with one hand tied behind his back (Republicans/corporations)...Given a little more time and a little support I'm sure Obama will tame the beast, or at least try to?...Obama is a big boy and certainly not without brains...

He has re-instated Russia as a friend for the first time in many years, opened up trade with them and finally shut down and taken the chill off the cold war and expressed a desire for a nuke free world...

If anyone deserves to win the Nobel Peace Prize, who better?

Have a great weekend! (I am :-) xo

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:39 pm
I really wish I had your hope. Instead, I noted before the election his 'pledge of allegiance' to AIPAC and plan to retarget the activity of the American War Machine to Afghanistan.
I know very well by this time what the Great Game is, the nature of the game to control oil and gas resources - a militarily strategic resource for Russian defence. But of late I have been more struck with his continuing the line against Iran and Ahmadinejad.
Guy. It's cheap theatre :Punch & Judy. Whatever Iran might be doing in actuality is of no importance to constant speculation as to what it might do.
Why did Iran sign the NPT ? There were incentives. Read the Wikipedia summary and note the Third Pillar of the Nonprol;iferation Treaty.

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:44 pm
I've been a blogging fool today. http://opitslinkfest.blogspot.com/2009/10/anniversary-afghanistan-peace-prize.html is only one of the catalogues of info I've posted. Perhaps I've been too hard on Obama : after all, it was as good as a media setup to embarass him. Imagine proposing the head of the largest war machine on the planet as recipient of a peace prize! Who else has the kill count for which his forces are responsible in the past 8 months ? To me it's still a case of playing off bad cop against real stinker!

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:08 pm
I think it was completely assanine and premature to give him the award.

Friday October 9, 2009, 11:50 pm
Congrats that he got it, but he DIDN'T EARN IT.., which is suppose to be done..before..one gets it..., but heck.., the rules seem to always change on this wild stage of Earth.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 12:06 am
Oh happy day! congratulation Obama way to go!
Obama was given the Noble prize for what he is standing for!
its the way of Europe to say we appreciate your efforts to stand for peace!
they got sick of the voice of doom and gloom, Waking up every morning on news of the war on terror, the ugly
monsters who have been chanting kill kill kill, drill baby drill!
we are tired and sick of war and killing in Europe!
that is why we give prizes for those who stand for peace and well being for all humanity!
Beside it is up to us to give a present to who ever we want! and don't look a gift horse in the mouth!
YOU send your children to war, not because you believe in peace but because you believe in$$$$$
they earn their living off the blood of innocent children, your bread is dipped in blood USA!
you feed your children on Blood of other innocent children! Vampiring? Or it is a Halloween all year around?
we have an army here but its not for killing and no one earn a living out of it!
they go for a month every year for training, but they take off the uniform and go back to their life and jobs after that!
If you all stand for peace as you claim, they why no one quit the killing machine!
OBAMA didn't create that, Obama didn't make a living out of that!
he educated himself and worked hard to pay for it from his own pocket - Not from the blood of any one else!
Wake up, think, not only talking from the Idiotic Media crap you are fed on!
The monster is under your bed, in your living room, in your life every day!
your eyes are fogged with blood of innocent children, and people!
you don't even know-what is been done into you! World new order of the slaves in the UNITED ESTATE?!!!
Those who are standing on the SOAP BOX yapping from the sick black hole in their mind and soul, will be forgotten as soon as they get off the soap box!
BUT- Obama will always be there his name will be remembered for the man who made a difference every where!
he is an example for a man who believe in peace, believe in respect for life and humanity and that is enough Honer for him!
Put it in your pipe; AND SMOKE IT.
Peace to earth, peace to the World Namasté

Saturday October 10, 2009, 12:13 am
Obama's Cairo speech was a load of pro-Israeli (a brutal regime), pro-Saudi Arabia (a brutal regime), pro-Egypt (a brutal regime), imperialist propaganda against the self-determination of Iran, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, etc..

The election in Lebanon was unedmocratic - the majority voted for the anti-imperialist Hezbollah alliance, but because of gerrymandering, a U.S. puppet government was elected.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 12:54 am
I also believe it was premature, but lets hope that it provides him with the moral world support to say no to a troop build up in Afghanistan. He is never going to completely wipe out Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, but he has reduced their numbers to a level where he can and should declare victory and as Commander in Chief order the immediate preparations for total withdrawal.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 12:58 am
I'm frankly amazed that he was awarded
the peace prize. But, I believe the award
speaks more about the Nobel committee than
about Obama himself.
If his administration has accomplished so much
in 9 months to warrant him recieving the Nobel
Peace Prize, then this is wonderful news!
Then, there's "Iraqistan". They're going to become known
as the wars that George W. Bush began and Obama continued.
If he becomes known as a President who is prosecuting
wars, how bizarre will it be to know that same man was
awarded the Nobel Peace Prize?

Thanks, David.
There are some most interesting days ahead.
noted.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 1:18 am
You cannot currently send a star to Huda because you have done so within the last week.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 1:42 am
What a bizarre world... Why is a President given an award for doing his job?

Isn't the job of a President to do what is best for the citizens of his country. Isn't it why he was elected in the first place?

It is also his job to do what is best for international peace. But is he really doing this? No. Because his hands are tied.

I am afraid there are very dark ulterior motives behind his being awarded a *Nobel* Price.

I like Obama's personality, so this is not a personal attack against him. I am sorry to see him manipulated, and that there is nothing he can do about it. Like someone said here, he really needs the help of the People, so that he is not eventually forced to turn into a *puppet like his predecessor* (in spite of the fact that B. Obama is as intelligent as Bush is stupid, and that Obama has ethics, while Bush has none.)

Saturday October 10, 2009, 1:47 am
Peace of the Action

By Cindy Sheehan

I had just walked back into my hotel room yesterday after chaining myself to the White House fence and being arrested, when I saw White House press secretary, Robert Gibbs, say that removing troops from Afghanistan was "not an option."
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23685.htm


Warmonger Wins Peace Prize

By Paul Craig Roberts

The non-cynical can say that the Nobel committee is seizing on Obama's rhetoric to lock him into the pursuit of peace instead of war. We can all hope that it works. But the more likely result is that the award has made "War is Peace" the reality.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23681.htm

===

Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

By Thomas DiLorenzo

I'm still surprised, though, that he won the prize after killing so few people.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23676.htm

===

Good War vs. Great Society

By JOHN FEFFER

Can Obama have his guns and eat his butter too?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23684.htm

Saturday October 10, 2009, 1:59 am
Obama differnt completly than Bush and tcheny .. Obama dream with peace ... I belive Obama ... he is not responsable for what happen to Iraq ... he try to slove the problem that Bush did and remove few of the sad that Bush publish in Iraq I belive Obama .. he try to give us few of peace ... America must proud by him .. our children in Iraq love him ... similiar to that man must take Nobel rewaed for peace he is the man of peace and chang.. Congragelation Obama .. my respect to you...

Saturday October 10, 2009, 2:08 am
Wish we have leader lead Iraq similar to Obama then our country will convert to pharadise or beautful garden full with peace and safty ... stand beside Obama all must help him ... for making the chang for remove tears from widows cheack ... to return hope to our children future not only in America but in in allover the world ...

Saturday October 10, 2009, 2:23 am
In recent years, Hugo Chavez, Evo Morales and Rafael Correa have all done more for peace than Obama has done.

Giving Obama a peace prize makes a mockery of that peace prize, when Obama continues U.S. imperialist military policies almost completely unchanged:

Obama continues the huge U.S. military spending (about as much as the rest of the world combined);

Obama continues to maintain the U.S. armament of 1,000s of nuclear missiles (2nd only to Russia's number of nuclear warheads, which are inferior missiles and are part of an inferior weapons system);

Obama continues the 100s of U.S. military bases in dozens of countries around the world (including the Guantanamo Bay military base, which on Cuban soil, on the mainland of Cuba, occupied against the wishes of the Cuban government and people);

Obama continues to give billions of dollars in military aid, and sell arms, to dozens of corrupt, oppressive and brutal regimes, supporting dirty wars rife with atrocities, in Africa, Mexico, Colombia, Peru, the Philippines, Indonesia, Pakistan, and Israel/Palestine, etc., against colonised and oppressed people fighting for self-determination, as well as poverty-stricken peasants who organise into peasant unions to defend their rights, exploited factory workers who campaign for workers' rights, etc..

And of course, everyone knows that Obama is continuing the brutal wars of occupation in Afghanistan, Iraq and parts of Pakistan, trying to terrorise the civilian populations into submission to brutal U.S. puppet regimes (for U.S. control of oil, oil pipelines and other economic bounties).

In contrast, Hugo Chavez, Evo Morales (the first ever Indigenous president of Bolivia, who averted a fascist coup by peaceful means), and Rafael Correa (president of Ecuador, who ordered the U.S. to remove its military base from Ecuador) have done much more for peace than Obama has done - though you wouldn't know this if you get your information about the world from the capitalist media - because the capitalist media has a capitalist agenda (for corporations and imperialist exploitation of workers and resources around the world). Obama, with his imperialist militarism, and economic exploitation, is acting for this capitalist agenda, while other activists are campaigning for peace and human rights by egalitarian and democratic means instead.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 2:27 am
People who support Obama are ignoring U.S. actions around the world!!! Or if they know about U.S. actions and still support Obama, then they are fascists!!!

Saturday October 10, 2009, 3:21 am
OK Folks! stand Back !I Am going to shout out loud!
What have we done for peace when they killed it 8 years ago?
Who stood up and said enough is enough , when they murdered the children, in Iraq and Afghanistan, and every corner in the world! what action did we take, other than just moving our fingers on our remote control, or key boards?
who switched off the Monster in the living room, and walked out to demonstrate for peace, to make his/ her voice hared with a whole town city or a country!
Now we have some one who is using that to sound the voice of peace, and what are we doing? shouting him down, searching for nits and lice! and calling lies! are we turning into peace monkey who search each other for nits and lice? stand up, stop the doom and gloom and searching for fault in every thing, stand up for united peace every where on this planet, or keep your peace!
just a small question to all of you! how much did you do for yourself, your family, your neighborhood, your town, your country, since January 27? what did you achieve in this 9 months? can i hear it or see it please?
switch off the damn Monster in the living room, Get off that couch , stop munching on your chips, put down that beer bottle, and stand up for united peace every where, , then come back and yap about it, we have done some thing!
there is one AGENDA here , not right/ left and center! its called PEACE FOR THIS PLANET! stop dumping your garbage, and say its dirty planet! the Agenda -IS- PEACE FOR EVERY ONE, JOBS FOR EVERY ONE, LIFE FOR ALL! if all that money and resources are collected together, we will have a civilization never happened before! we will have peace, prosperity, and contentment!
that is called collective consciousness for peace, not defeating each and every one , who is trying! stand up, right now and march for peace!
Peace to earth! peace to all of you! Namasté

Saturday October 10, 2009, 3:26 am
By the way ! we have a international day for every sh*T on earth! DO WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL DAY FOR PEACE? I DON'T KNOW, I NEVER LOOK FOR THIS SUPERDAYS ON THE CALANDER! IF THERE IS ONE, PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHICH DAY IS THAT IN THE YEAR! THANKS

Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:30 am
I have been a peace activist since age 6, "Huda Light". I never voted for warmongering f**ks in my life - I always voted socialist and Green, plus I have demonstrated, and built demonstrations and public meetings, distributed socialist newspapers, etc.. And I have done plenty to educate others about the truth so they will do the same.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:30 am
As such, even I have done more for peace than that warmongerer, Obama.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:33 am
Great! so we are working for the same company, we don't need to vote any one down!

Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:51 am
Obama didn't try to make peace. If he tried, Obama's government would have already reduced its military spending from about 45% of the world's spending, to a proportional amount based on population (5% of the world's spending for % of the world's population), or less than that.

If he tried to make peace, Obama's government would not maintain the U.S. armament of 1,000s of nuclear warheads - those warheads would be disassembled and made unusable.

If he tried to make peace, Obama's government would have closed the 100s of military bases in dozens of countries around the world, starting with the USA's Guantanamo Bay Naval Base which is imposed on Cuban soil (against the will of the Cuban people).

If he tried to make peace, Obama's government would have stopped giving those billions of dollars in military aid annually, and stopped selling arms, to dozens of corrupt, oppressive and brutal regimes, stopped supporting dirty wars rife with atrocities, in Africa, Mexico, Colombia, Peru, the Philippines, Indonesia, Pakistan, and Israel/Palestine, etc.. And the self-determination, peasant and worker movements in Third World countries would be stronger than they are, if Obama had stopped supporting those regimes that oppress the people.

And of course, if Obama had tried to make peace, all the U.S. military forces would have been ordered out of Afghanistan, Iraq and parts of Pakistan, and would not still be trying to terrorise the civilian populations into submission to brutal U.S. puppet regimes (for U.S. control of oil, oil pipelines and other economic bounties).

Obama is a warmonger, and only people who gullibly believe the capitalist media propaganda are ignoring that fact.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 9:05 am
Right and if Obama was not born, we would have been living in peace and prosperity, and We would have got King George W.Bush the 2ND and we would have kissed his feet every morning, and praised God for the blessings, and gave him a peace prize, so we live in the world we live in, and some one out of your island have voted for him, and to give him a winning lottery! whatever it is its non of no one business, and its their decision to do that! next time ask them to give it to Castro!

Saturday October 10, 2009, 9:23 am
HUDA U ROCK!

Saturday October 10, 2009, 10:50 am
Heck, they gave it to Kissinger & Nixon, while they were just STARTING to expand from Vietnam to Cambodia--so, what's the big surprise?

They gave it to him because he seems able to INSPIRE an illusion of 'future' peace~~i.e., he gives HOPE that it's possible.

And after the fear those 'kwazee criminals' inspired throughout the world, I HOPE he is able to succeed in living up to his/our illusions.

Namaste, sweeetie. Have faith...

Saturday October 10, 2009, 12:51 pm
With only 10 months in office he has done more positive things than probably all his predecessors.He took office with wars,a messed up economy,tortures,antiamericanismetc,etc,imagine 9 months from now.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 1:59 pm
Huda, you said "What have we done for peace when they killed it 8 years ago?
Who stood up and said enough is enough , when they murdered the children, in Iraq and Afghanistan, and every corner in the world! what action did we take, other than just moving our fingers on our remote control, or key boards?
who switched off the Monster in the living room, and walked out to demonstrate for peace, to make his/ her voice hared with a whole town city or a country! "

Like millions of simple citizens, I did. I went out in the streets, to join the many protest marches against the bombing of Iraq. There were demonstrations several times a week, in my city, and together with thousands of people of all ages, old, young, children, of all walks of life, we marched in the streets and sat down peacefully in front of the US consulate (and pepper gas didn't discourage anyone to keep going to the next protest marches) . US flags were burning, US and UK products boycotted.
Our schoolchildren kept bringing amazing drawings against war and slogan in support of peace. On the news we could see the horror and destruction caused in Iraq every day. I live in a country that supported Iraq and our reporters showed us all the atrocities. It made me physically sick and so angry I had to be put on heart and blood pressure medication. The bombings went on and on and most Americans seemed to support the attacks and invasion of Iraq. As a French who was openly against this illegal US "war", I was constantly attacked verbally by Americans in groups and forums, even many who I had thought were my friends, just because I was against the ongoing genocide of the Iraqi people. I "lost" many friends because of that but I have no regrets. And a few years later I saw they had changed their minds... but to me it was too late. They had supported the bombings, because they had believed all the lies of their government.

Million of people were in the streets protesting, Huda, again and again... in Europe there was a wide movement of rebellion and resistance against the USA and UK because of their attacking sovereign countries for NO good reason at all. Because bombs and missiles were raining over Iraq, and the population had no water left, no food left, the hospitals, maternities, schools, markets were bombed to rubbles, and most of the thousands of victims were innocent civilians, especially children, who had nowhere to go and nowhere to hide. It was about the same for the strikes against Afghanistan.

Does anyone know where Obama was? I am not suggesting anything negative, I am really asking, because I have no idea.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 2:29 pm
When someone wins the Nobel Peace prize based on what this individual could do in the future then it is time we create a prize for 'Individuals with Potential'.

The Nobel Prize is meant (let us say was meant, as it is no longer meant..) for deeds done. If Obama dies tomorrow - is the Nobel prize revoked, because the 'Pledge' was not fulfilled?

Folks, this is not Change.Org where you get to sign the pledge, and maybe, just maybe remember to actually read the content of the pledge and actually act on it.

They hysteria around the US president receiving this award is funny. If this was Joe Soap in the street there would be an uproar and rightly so - 'cause Joe Soap has not proven him/herself. But because this is a president, and to top it all, the USA president suddenly makes it all OKAY.

I don't think it is okay. One has to look at the intent of the founding fathers of the Nobel Peace Prize. Not only has the current vote violated its stated mission in this vote, but have done so many times in the past.

And what makes this even more bizarre is that he was nominated very, very early on in his presidency......

Something not right here - no matter what he has done or is still to do - before he has had his morning coffee....

Saturday October 10, 2009, 2:48 pm
Go Eureka!Great statement.
Simon,I don't always agree you,but on this one I certainly do.
You make great point about American policy around the World and the ineffectiveness of this Presidency in any capicity other then to spew nice speeches about peace.
Peace comes from action not talking.
Carter ACTED and accomplished Peace in the Middle East DURING his term and still had to wait two years after he was replaced in office by Reagan to recieve this Honorable Prize.
Eureka makes a great point in the fact why was he nominated so early in his Presidency?
What did they throw his name in the running the day of his inagruation!
Very fishy....
It is the slight of hand with the whole smoke and mirrors bit if you ask me.
He doesn't deserve it.
He didn't even stand up for the people in the streets of Tehran with their english signs crying out for some kind...any kind of support from us!
Only for Obama to say that we are staying out of it.
Bill Clinton got the two journalist from N.Korea,when Obama and even his own wife Hillary failed.
Hell,give it to him!

Saturday October 10, 2009, 3:16 pm
es Brigitte, we have demonstrated and shed tears for the killing in Europe! but not in USA! they were chanting Kill, kill kill, they were doing it in December still, and till today! Obama was fighting another fight at that time, he was helping the black youth in the streets of Chicago, to get off the street and go to school, he was doing his part! and now he is doing his bigger part of Clearing the Derbies for the past , and tr to build a world of peace , its not a job done in a day, or one generation, and he is damned if he does or he doesn't, there is no way to please, the people! they always try to see what is missing, what is negative, if for every word to attack on him some one would have given a cent , it think the situation would have looked completely different today! , you hear always the negative, and the attacks, no one has the integrity to see what is going on! how many of the so called world leader have stood up , and tried to meet all and every one half way thought! Obama does and do every day on all level! he is working all alone, and he is doing his best, for that i have my full respect for him! Obama is a light worker! any how i really don't understand why the hell breaking lose because the Europeans have given him a prize? what is it for any one any way`is it envy or jealousy? i am not getting it! who said that no one can do what he is doing?
any way if you approve or disapprove of it , it make no difference those who have the right to agree or disagree chose to do that, if its up for every body to vote for it, they would have asked them in a vote!
He didn't not bribe his presidency did he? USA had an illegal president for 8 years! and they still pray to him today!
if we want peace, we need to be peace, change comes from withing, if we wait for some one to bring us any thing ,w e will all die waiting! that is what am saying, you want peace, go get it, stand up for what you want, if all stood up for peace no power on earth will stop us!
peace be with you , Namasté

Saturday October 10, 2009, 4:09 pm
Why you fight some said who support hi, fasistic others say I dont know what do you think Bush better give him a time and see then jugment decide I dont get from him any benafit I belive him because he listen simple man whenas I write to care2 I write to him to white house he listen and help even long distance betwen us ..

Saturday October 10, 2009, 4:59 pm
I ALWAYS THOUGHT YOU GOT AN AWARD AFTER YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING OF WORTH .................................................... I WISH HIM A LOT OF LUCK , IT IS TOO EARLY FOR AWARDS .

I GUESS THE SUPERBOWL AWARD WILL BE AWARDED AT HALLOWEEN .

WHY WAIT FOR ANY THING TO BE FINISHED ..........WORLD SERIES ,ACADEMY AWARDS ...ETC .

I REALLY DO THINK IT IS TOO SOON FOR SUCH A GREAT THING AS THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE ///////NOT TO MENTION THE FACT WE ARE VERY MUCH AT WAR .

SO , OTHER THAN BAILING OUT THOSE POOR LITTLE BANKS ( some more than once ) WHERE ON EARTH DOES THE PRESIDENT GET OFF GETTING THIS AWARD . I KNOW HE IS TRYING BUT EXACTLY WHAT HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED ??????????????????????????????????????????

Saturday October 10, 2009, 5:07 pm
Yes, we should all be awarded for thinking or talking about something and having a nice smile, while death continues. I wonder if depleted uranium is still being used in Iraq and children continuing to be born with birth defects and developing cancers.

Someone like Dr Helen Caldicott has done more for opposing nuclear proliferation than Obama.

I guess at least Obama the alleged peacemaker must at least use diplomacy and discussion with those he disagrees with, rather than throwing a little tantrum and rudeness.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 5:46 pm
Well, in an ideal, perfect world {where's that?}, the Nobel Committee would be nothing but a bunch of starry-eyed idealists, awarding the prize to other starry-eyed idealists. ALWAYS. Well, SOMETIMES it works that way. {I could list a few of these "deserving" recipients if I had the time.}

At other times, the Nobel Prize Committee, just like everyone else on the Planet it seems, is Playing Politics -- and it has been so from the very beginning. Look at the HISTORY of the Nobel Peace Prize! It was awarded to such "warriors" as: Teddy Roosevelt! {Spanish-American War}; Woodrow Wilson! {took the US into WWI}; Yasser Arafat! {sortof a "terrorist", wouldn't you say?}; and - even! HENRY KISSINGER! {one of the WORST of the warmongers.....!}. Yes, it was a matter of "encouraging" certain people and actions by these people and "trends". Not awarded necessarily because these people were "saints and angels". It could even be called, "interfering in the affairs of another country"; and that's NOT NECESSARILY a Bad Thing, when that country has power on a WORLD stage like the US does!

I think this action by the Nobel Peace Prize Committe was a stroke of GENIUS. It seems to me, irrelevant whether the prize was "deserved" in a strict sense, or not! {President Obama was very gracious about saying he felt he "didn't deserve it". Now, he has EVEN MORE TO LIVE UP TO! That's a GOOD thing!!!}

This prize award has CHANGED THE COMPLEXION OF POLITICS IN THE USA. For one thing, THE REPUBLICANS AND THE FAR-RIGHT ARE MAKING TOTAL PUBLIC IRREDEEMABLE FOOLS OF THEMSELVES! That ALONE is worth it! You see, the Repukelicans and the Far Right NEVER DID ACTUALLY HAVE THE PUBLIC SUPPORT THAT THEY CLAIM TO HAVE. The only way they can APPEAR to have any support, is because THE MEDIA GIVES THEM ALL THAT PUBLICITY. While these clowns PRETEND to be leading a "grassroots movement", teabaggers, anti-health-care dupes, etc.; the movement is in actuality, nothing but {I LOVE that phrase!}, an "ASTROTURF" movement!!! {For those to whom English is a second language, "Astroturf" is a kind of ARTIFICIAL grass, used in sports stadiums, etc.}
This is PROVED by the fact that POLLS SHOW that all the efforts of the Right-wingers HAVE NOT CHANGED PUBLIC OPINION {on Health Care, for example}, by any significant number of percentage points!!!!!
However, the Media by giving undue PUBLICITY to the ranting bigots, and virtually NONE to even huge protests by OUR side; give a completely DISTORTED view.

Well, there is such a thing, apparently hard-wired into most human beings, such a thing as PATRIOTISM. Even birds and animals, LOVE and defend their "home base", their territory, their Homeland! The Repukes have PUT THEMSELVES ON THE WRONG SIDE; by being snide about their favorite hate-object, Obama, getting the award!!! But, all the LATENT PATRIOTISM of MOST folks, as well as the CONTINUING SUPPORT FOR OBAMA that in some instances has been INTIMIDATED and muted into silence, has NOW come to the fore!!!!!

Whether on purpose or not {and I think these Norwegian guys are quite a savvy bunch!}, this comes at a time when the SEEMING power and influence of the Far Right APPEARED to be out-of-control. This giving of the award sure CUTS THEM DOWN TO SIZE!!! Not only do WE, up-to-now ignored by the Media, WE get our VOICES back; but I feel, with all the irresponsible Right-wing rant encouraging actual VIOLENCE, I feel that GIVING THIS AWARD AT THIS TIME MAY HAVE EVEN SAVED OUR PRESIDENT FROM ASSASSINATION. Because THAT's where all this "talk" was headed, make no mistake!

Of course I am very pleased for President Obama, his supporters in the government, his family both in the US and in Kenya, our country and those who had the good sense to vote for Obama {without waiting for the "perfect person" to come along}. This award will INDEED "ENCOURAGE" certain types of good, peace-tending policies; which WAS the original intent of the founder of the Prize, Alfred Nobel. Its net result will ALSO be, perhaps even more importantly, to ENCOURAGE the supporters of President Obama, including even some of the previously dis-illusioned ones, to PUSH EVEN HARDER for the policies for Peace that WE want to see instituted: leaving Iraq and Afghanistan, no drone bombers, dis-mantle American bases, even MORE nuclear disarmament, etc. etc. etc. This has been SOOOOOOO good for our country; and for what we want!

And the Far Right, our deadly enemies, self-destruct EVEN FASTER...... leaving the path for Reform that much clearer.......

Si Se Puedes! Yes We Can! HOPE is back to the foreground......!

Saturday October 10, 2009, 7:16 pm
As you can see from what I wrote above, I do not regard the Nobel Peace Prize as a kind of candy to be awarded on the playground to "good kids" who "behave themselves properly"! It has often been awarded to heads-of-State; and, {with the possible exception of the Dalai Lama}, what head-of-State or ex-head-of-State in this world, does NOT have Blood On His/Her Hands??????

Often it has been awarded to, excuse the expression, "little" people, "ordinary" people who have accomplished extraordinary things. In many or most of those cases, the award was "deserved" according to peace-lovers' assessments of such things.

But, as I said, from the very beginning, Heads of State and former ones, and other govt officials, got the Nobel Peace Prize; and other deserving figures did NOT.
Just like with the decisions of the Olympic Committee, it is pretty plain that Political Considerations loomed large in deciding the awards. The awards were INTENDED by their founder, to ENCOURAGE certain types of activity. {If giving the award to a newborn baby, would actually ENCOURAGE Peace in some way...... then why not?} The outcome may or may not "work" as hoped for.

That is why, to me, discussions of whether President Obama "deserved" the award or not, are really beside-the-point. The award was intended to INFLUENCE President Obama and American politics; and to me it appears as if it has already done so, and will continue for some time to do so, to a stunning degree!!!
It gives the President something TO LIVE UP TO; as someone put it, it just might "keep him honest!" {We can hope.}

It certainly has RE-IGNITED many of his previously-discouraged followers and supporters! Nobody knows or can predict for certain, just WHERE this might lead...... which is in part, up to US! to take advantage of......!

I base my assessment on all the Internet jibber-jabber I usually try to avoid! Before, because of the anonymous nature of the Internet and people's meanness coming out, there was practically nothing but stupid attacks, attacks, attacks, and for all the WRONG reasons!, on the President: bigoted, often Racist, mindless, often incoherent and illiterate, obviously influenced by the likes of Limbaugh, Beck, et al..... And there were very few sensible statements, refutations of the attacks, attempts at FACTUALITY, attempts to correct the mis-information and deliberate DIS-information....That's why I would KICK MYSELF every time I got pulled into reading that kind of garbage! It didn't exactly "make my day"!

NOW, however, it's QUITE A DIFFERENT PICTURE! While the illiterate idjits are still in full cry, this PATRIOTISM I spoke of has come to the fore -- sure, "patriotism" isn't the most "sensible, objective" form of emotion -- but, for whatever it's worth, THAT has been what I have been reading on Internet sites! There is a near-universal feeling of PRIDE IN THE PRESIDENT AND IN THE COUNTRY, for this INTERNATIONAL HONOR!
Okay, it's not "balanced", it's not "objective"; it doesn't take into consideration President Obama's continuing war activities; but still, it can't be denied, I've seen this SURGE OF SUPPORT expressed FOR the President..... and quite drowning out the usual mindless babble of negativity......
To hear the Right-wing MONOPOLY OF THE MEDIA, you'd think the SURGE OF FEELING AND HOPE that elected Obama President, had dissipated or gone hiding under a rock...... but, now it appears NO SUCH THING!

The Far Right and the entire Repukelican party are happily DIGGING THEIR OWN GRAVES and LOSING THE LITTLE SUPPORT they may still have been able to garner. Michael Steel's dumb fund-raising letter, for one thing. There will be absolutely NO-ONE but the hardest of hard-core followers left; and they were always beyond hope anyway.
The main theme, seems to be how UN-PATRIOTIC the Repukes are; and it didn't help their case, that they just the other day, REJOICED when the US lost its bid to host the Olympic Games in Chicago! The Party of "NO"......

There seems to be just this SURGE, this WAVE of POPULAR DISGUST with the Far Right and Republicans, expressing itself.......
Rather FUN to read, for a change......! :-]

Saturday October 10, 2009, 7:26 pm
"Well the final closing date for Nobel Prize nominations was February 2009"
(google)...So nominations for Obama's Prize closed just 11? days into Obama's term and therefore, to me, the awarding of this prize is totally unjustified?

Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:02 pm
BMutiny, I think that you hit it right on the head "He now has much to live up to"

David, my friend, I always appreciate your thought prevoking stories, I wish everyone could understand that you are simply trying to get them to think for themselves lol!

We both play both sides so we can understand others, as well as our own thoughts, values, beliefs.

Namaste

Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:09 pm
David, how can I stop my son who is a career soldier (since 1995) from following orders? Do I or anyone else in my family believe in this war? Do I want my son, a good and decent man, son, husband, and father to disobey orders? Answer these questions honestly. That means, when your son is in my son's poistion, you should answer. When you as a parent, feel the pain and conflict we in this family feel,please answer. Until then try to feel ALL of our pain and withold your judgement. Adam had to leave his wife and two sons behind as he went to a war zone that should not exist! Until the former president of the USA, GEORGE W. BUSH is brought to justice for his crimes against the world and the American people, no one will rest easy. Instead of condemning Obama, we should be trying to bring the BUSH ADMINISTRATION to justice!

Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:25 pm
BRAVO, CARRIE, YOU HIT THRE RIGHT TARGET !! BUSH !! OBAMA DID NOT START THIS WAR & HE HAS TO REPAIR ALL THE FOOLISH DECISIONS BUSH TOOK DURING HIS MANDATE & THIS CAN TAKE MANY YEARS TO REPAIR.......

Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:29 pm
JOSSIE WEHERE HAVE YOU BEEN SWEETS.....Carrie be proud of your son....He didnt start this war...Ive been there its hard not to follow orders. You cant just drop the military cause you dont see eye to eye they CAN make your life hell...I so hope noone badgers you on this. Im sure someone is gonna say something mean about your son being in the military or take shots at him or you...But I so hope not....We all have our beleifs wether one thinks they are right or wrong....

Big gOirlly Hugs

Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:40 pm
Carrie, I agree with Gorilly, I am former military and we did as ordered. I left when I no longer believed in the cause, when I realized that the truth did not exist. You should be proud that your son believes in something and has taken action, not just spewing empty words. May he bring hope, peace and help to those who need it
Please do not label me or Carrie's son as labels belong on bottles, not people.....
Hello Jossie and all of my dear friends whom I have missed greatly!
Peace, Love and Laughter to all , Namaste

Saturday October 10, 2009, 8:54 pm
"David, how can I stop my son who is a career soldier (since 1995) from following orders?"...

You can't Carrie, assuming that he truly believes that this is a "useful" war?... It's up to him...He voluntarily joined an organisation to learn how to kill people and that is his career...Personally, I would not have chosen that path, but that's just me...

As a mother, who disaproves of war, being a solution to nothing, you might suggest to him that discression is the better then valour?...In the end it's up to him...Should he not choose to disobey an obscene order to kill or be killed, so be it...

If he goes, then may his "higher power be with him, you and your family.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 9:02 pm
David I have to say something on that...About he joined to learn how to kill people...None of us joined just to learn how to kill people we joined to protect what we beleived in the US and her people we joined to be their protectors if the US people hate us so bad then why do they cry for us when they need us the most???? Half of us joined when their wasnt even a war going on....If there wanst a military not saying all of what they do is right we know that some of it IS wrong...But come on...

Big Gorilly Hugs David not trying to argue I love what you do....

Saturday October 10, 2009, 9:12 pm
David, I cannot believe that any rational adult in this world believes we can exist without a military presence. If peaceful nations choose to disband their military, what would would happen to them? There is something called protection which we should all be aware of and thankful for. My son joined a military which was dedicated to peace keeping. Unfortunately for him and the rest of this world, an unscrupulous and war mongering president changed all for everyone. Instead of condemning those who who have taken an oath to their country, I again ask you to devote your time to helping convict the CRIMINAL, GEORGE W. BUSH!

Saturday October 10, 2009, 9:25 pm
Gorilly Girl,
the military is about learning how to kill, and then going out and killing people. Please don't use euphemisms like "protect/defend my country". A gun is not a shield. A gun is a weapon of maiming and killing. Same with a cannon, missiles, bombs, cluster bombs, etc..

And the U.S. military is the enforcer of U.S.-led first world imperialism: the system which plunders U.S.$500 billion net from the Third World each year, impoverishing the people of the Third World.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 9:29 pm
The U.S. military is not a defence force. Venezuela's military is a defence force. The U.S. military is a force to terrorise people into submission to puppet governments kowtowing to U.S. dictates, puppet governments that oppress their people, to impose exploitation by U.S.-based multinational corporations.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 9:40 pm
We have known that the U.S. military is an imperialist force since the U.S. military first waged a war of genocide against the Indigenous people of North America immediately after the USA was founded, and then was used to invade and steal half of Mexico in the Mexican-American War, and then was used to attack or invade numerous countries in the 19th and 20th century (multiple times in some cases), including the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, the Philippines, Grenada, Somalia, the Sudan, Russia, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc., etc..

Saturday October 10, 2009, 9:44 pm
Some countries have a very limited military and choose to spend their money on education, healthcare, the environment and culture. The US has the largest military budget of any country -- "almost as much as the rest of the world's defense spending combined" -- something like $300 million a minute. I think the world could do with fewer weapons and less $$ spent on war and destruction. There are kids going hungry even in the US.

Convicting George W and investigating 9/11 could be happening now, but the govt I presume chooses not to.

Can only hope for a better future, I suppose.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 9:56 pm
David,I consider you a good and true friend and a good and honorable man. I want you to know that some of your words have hurt me deeply.My son joined the military because he, like you is a a good and honorable man. He doesn't want to kill anyone, but he does want to protect his country for his sons and grandsons. When Adam took the oath to protect his country he, like most others had no idea of the things that would transpire. Being the honorable man that he is, he is not in a postion to now say "I changed my mind". I again ask you to help those of us who would like to see George W. Bush brought to justice. Please help all of our sons who are in a war they not only want to end, but do not necessarily believe in.Please remember that many if not most out there in Iraq have no personal agenda. They don't care about oil reserves or what happened or didn't happen during the first Gulf war. These men and women want to be home with their families, but are fulfilling the obligation they made to their country. As much as we would like it to be otherwise, this world could not exist without a military force. Neither of us would have the luxury of the internet and all of our disagreements if we didn't have all of those men and women out there protecting our rights. Instead of condemning my son and others like him, you should be thanking him for all of your freedoms. He may be in a war none of us want, but he and others like him will always be there for you when you want and need them.








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Saturday October 10, 2009, 9:59 pm
Why do I always seem to say the wrong things...aaaaghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Gorilly

Saturday October 10, 2009, 10:21 pm
Gorilly,you didn't say anything wrong. There are just a lot of people out there who have forgotten why we are able to have this conversation. No one wants war and suffering, but if it weren't for a strong military force people like Simon would not be able to freely disagree with you. I think he and amny others may have forgotten that. Hang in there Gorilly!

Saturday October 10, 2009, 10:36 pm
Gorilly there is nothing wrong with showing you have a heart.. I also tend to agrree to... and Obama did not start this war... Bush did... Obama is busy completing the book that Bush started and did not have th guts to finish... I am sure it will have a happy ending and Obama definitely needs credit for what he has done... Lets focus on all the good things and not thethings of the past as then we will always live in the past... time to move on and be positive regarding your future... Your mindset will determine where you go..

Saturday October 10, 2009, 10:40 pm
Ya know it just sucks getting chastized all the time about it....It really does. I may not know exactly how to word things somethimes and it bothers me for some are my friends some are not but I have much respect for them...It sucks sometimes being me...

Goirlly

Saturday October 10, 2009, 10:51 pm
Gorilly, don't worry, we're all trying to figure this world out.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 11:09 pm
Carrie: "These men and women want to be home with their families, but are fulfilling the obligation they made to their country."

Why are they not staying home with their families and not fulfilling "the obligation they made to their country, their country made no obligation to them...

"Their country" has let them down by starting an illegal war and sending them off to "defend" their country in a country far away...(Stupid?)...Why on earth should anyone take an order to kill or be killed, issued by a country who lies and starts a war to line their pockets with gold (oil?) over the dead bodies of their kids?...

The absurdity of corporate inspired war is utterly absurd!...Defense is one thing...Compulsory murder for corparate profit and greed is quite another...

Corporate profits?... From re-constucting the destruction they sanctioned, oil rights, supplies, munitions, bandages and coffins for the troops etc, etc ad-infinitum is grossly inhumane and absurd)...Google Dick Cheney/Halliburton...

America started the war in Afghanistan to "defend" America from terrorist groups of an unknown quantity and in the process, murdered in excess of one million Iraquis...

Hopefully, now and again, not all were innnocent men, women and children civilians?......The Iraq war was based on a bunch of WMD lies known to Bushco but went ahead anyway with the help of the Cheny/Rumsfeld media brainwashing of America, and the world, via the inside job of 9/11...It let yours and every American son down, that very day!...They owe your country NOTHING!

Ask not what you can do for your country, ssk what can your country do for you..(Other than use you as cannon fodder, for profit)...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"David, my friend, I always appreciate your thought prevoking stories, I wish everyone could understand that you are simply trying to get them to think for themselves lol!"...

Thanks Pete, got it in one!...Shame it doesn't always work? :-)

Saturday October 10, 2009, 11:15 pm
In other words, Carrie. If your son has not yet boarded the plane to destruction, lock him in a closet until the wars end...He will be alive, intended Afghan "targets' will be alive. and he'll probably thank for it?

Saturday October 10, 2009, 11:16 pm
David we agree on the Iraq war. Now let us all go after those who started it instead of those who are fulfilling their military obligations. Again I ask you, where would you and most of uf us be without a military?

Saturday October 10, 2009, 11:18 pm
NO MORE WAR!...BRING HOME THE TROOPS>>>>>>NOW!...And definately don't send any more!

Life is more precious than "DEFENSE" and profiteering on a lie!

Saturday October 10, 2009, 11:38 pm
Imho, it's not just about us, it's about all peoples (and animals) of the world and their right to live in peace also. Some people are clearly having a really hard time of it in the world atm, and, for me at least, that means speaking up. Peace (food, shelter, safety, water) for all, eh.
No one should be grieving because someone in their family is in danger, killed or maimed due to weapons, imho.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 11:48 pm
"David we agree on the Iraq war. Now let us all go after those who started it instead of those who are fulfilling their military obligations."...

I agree wholehertedly Carrie but I doubt that Busco will ever be brought to justice...

"Again I ask you, where would you and most of uf us be without a military?"

A damn sight better off Carrie...No more military, no more war!...Are you 'thinking' yet?...An oversupply of testosterone, boy soldiers and corporate greed haven't solved anyting yet...Maybe humanity will continue to evolve and one day realise they are going in the wrong direction and that our monkey predessessors are wiser than us...They do not kill for fun or profit, only for food.

Saturday October 10, 2009, 11:53 pm
Ohhhhhhhhh David I so wish it was that easy....No war, bring them all home, yes is what I wish too...but alas it doesnt work that way nor that fast...This is gonna take some time...we are stuck in a endless whirlpool trying to get out....Time is what we need but time is not what we have.

Big Goirlly Hugs

Sunday October 11, 2009, 12:01 am
President Obama came to power at a difficult time. I suspect that he has not yet had the time to turn all his words into actions, but he seems to be on the way. I wish him well in his aims, and that he gets a few wins under his belt. I understand that this peace prize is meant to sent Obama and the American people a message of support. Despite that I believe an award such as this should come after deeds, not only words

Sunday October 11, 2009, 1:04 am
The most shocking fact about war is that its victims and its instruments are individual human beings, and that these individual beings are condemned by the monstrous conventions of politics to murder or be murdered in quarrels not their own: Aldous Huxley - English novelist and critic, 1894-1963

Sunday October 11, 2009, 1:07 am
"Where is it written in the Constitution, in what article or section is it contained, that you may take children from their parents and parents from their children, and compel them to fight the battles of any war in which the folly and wickedness of the government may engage itself? Under what concealment has this power lain hidden, which now for the first time comes forth, with a tremendous and baleful aspect, to trample down and destroy the dearest right of personal liberty? Who will show me any Constitutional injunction which makes it the duty of the American people to surrender everything valuable in life, and even life, itself, whenever the purposes of an ambitious and mischievous government may require it? ... A free government with an uncontrolled power of military conscription is the most ridiculous and abominable contradiction and nonsense that ever entered into the heads of men." -- Daniel Webster (1782-1852), US Senator Source: Speech in the House of Representatives, January 14, 1814


I hate it when they say, 'He gave his life for his country.' Nobody gives their life for anything. We steal the lives of these kids. We take it away from them. They don't die for the honor and glory of their country. We kill them." : Admiral Gene LaRocque.

Sunday October 11, 2009, 1:30 am
Good morning Folk! glad to wake up to such a super debate!
but there are things my little brain can't process! can you help me with that please?
"There are just a lot of people out there who have forgotten why we are able to have this conversation. No one wants war and suffering, but if it weren't for a strong military force people like Simon would not be able to freely disagree with you. I think he and many others may have"
what that mean? that the killing machine have given us the permission to express our self? or with out it we will not be able to express ourselves?
and this defending our county, sentiments! if we we are not aggressive and breaking in no one house , and i mean all of us in this planet , why do we need to protect our self?
and i would like to know who have attacked the us to defend it self of?
did you hear about the USA war? i didn't yet!
they rush out to kill here and there with out even being invited, in the name of Democracy! what that word mean i need definition excuse my non English please!
have a great day and night every one, and may you wake up tomorrow, to hear that all is well on mother earth and the sun is shining, the kids are happy skipping to good education, and the birds are singing, and a white fluffy cloud dancing in the sky of marmalade!
sweet dreams are made of these !
peace be with you ! Namasté and i mean PEACE not pieces

Sunday October 11, 2009, 1:31 am
No Afghani ever hurt or threatened me or my neighbors. I have no quarrel whatsoever with any Afghani; and neither does ANYONE I know or have heard of. No Afghanis whatsoever were involved in 9/11.
We have no business being in Afghanistan at all. Our soldiers are NOT WANTED in Afghanistan by the Afghanis. They feel about us, the way you would feel about having an ARMED BURGLAR in your home walking around.

No Iraqi ever hurt or threatened me or my neighbors. I have no quarrel whatsoever with any Iraqi; and neither does ANYONE I know or have heard of. Not one single Iraqi was involved in any way in 9/11.
We were not invited into Iraq, our soldiers are NOT WANTED there by the Iraqis, they feel about American soldiers {and mercenaries} the way you would feel about having an armed RAPIST walking around in your house. ASK them.

9/11 was a CRIMINAL ACT. Whoever did it, and we won't go into that now, should be the target of a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION and CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. That's what we did the FIRST time the World Trade Center in New York City was targetted, by a bomb in the basement. Case solved. Case closed.

If a group of FRENCHMEN were involved in such activity against us, we WOULD NOT BOMB FRANCE in "retaliation". Again, we would institute a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION and CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.... using our LAW ENFORCEMENT apparatus.

According to International Law, a soldier has NO DUTY to obey an illegal order coming from his superiors; in fact, HE HAS THE DUTY AND OBLIGATION NOT TO OBEY. This is according to both the Legal Precedent set at the Nuremburg trials of Nazi War Criminals; AND, it is according to the {U.S.} Universal Code of Military Justice {UCMJ}. {The UCMJ is the supreme Military Law of the land.} In other words, according to precedent set, "I was only obeying orders" does NOT exonerate one from being guilty of a War Crime.

This is taking into account that fulfilling his/her DUTY AND OBLIGATION of NOT obeying ILLEGAL ORDERS, repeat, DUTY of NOT obeying -- a soldier may face punishment up to and including breaking of rank, imprisonment or death.

No soldier has been shot for desertion or any other reason by the U.S. Army since the execution of Private Slovik in the 1940's.

There have in fact been SEVERAL soldiers during both the Afghan, and the Iraq, conflict, who DID NOT OBEY ORDERS and were punished for it in various ways. {But not with the Death Penalty.}
The enormous Public outcry that such a Death Penalty for not obeying orders would cause now -- this isn't the 1940's -- practically ENSURES that it would not be used.

More information on individual soldiers who are currently REFUSING TO OBEY ORDERS is available on such sites as Iraq Veterans Against the War {IVAW}; Vietnam Veterans Against the War; Soldiers for Peace; etc. These can be Googled.
BOTH the Afghanistan, and the Iraq, wars are ILLEGAL WARS NOT SANCTIONED AT ALL BY INTERNATIONAL LAW. Therefore, orders to fight there, are ILLEGAL ORDERS.
{See the case of Lt. Erin Watada, for example. Look it up. He used the defense of "A Duty and Obligation NOT to obey illegal orders". Not "orders with which he disagreed". But "ILLEGAL orders".}

According to the Universal Code of Military Justice, the UCMJ, a soldier is a RESPONSIBLE MORAL BEING ABOVE AND BEYOND JUST ROBOT-LIKE OBEYING ORDERS. He/she makes THEIR OWN MORAL DECISIONS.

There can be no POSSIBLE, CONCEIVABLE way in which putting soldiers into Iraq, Afghanistan or any other country, "helps defend" me or mine.
Since Pearl Harbor, there is NOBODY that I know of, that has an Air Force or a Navy that would cross either the Atlantic, or the Pacific Oceans, to do American cities or civilians any harm. And they can't walk on water. This stuff about "We are fighting terrorists over THERE, so we won't have to fight them HERE", is UTTER NONSENSE. Again, a "terrorist act", like a criminal act by the Mafia or any other crime group, is a matter for INVESTIGATION AND LAW ENFORCEMENT.
I did not "call on" the soldiers to "defend" me. Not ME.

I have Freedom of Speech maybe because of Freedom Fighters back in 1776; but what is going on with American Armies abroad HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH MY FREEDOMS NOW. PAST wars are PAST. Ok, we fought Hitler maybe for Freedom. Neither Germany, nor Great Britain, is trying to take away our Freedoms NOW. And somebody in a cave in an Afghanistan mountain might be DREAMING of that..... let them dream! Where is their Navy? Where is their Air Force? Where is their Army that could successfully break thru our defenses? Why are our soldiers OVER THERE engaging them, with NO AUTHORIZATION FROM THE UNITED NATIONS, or from God, for that matter???

The South American country of URUGUAY, HAS NO ARMY. Guess what, nobody wants to attack them! And they don't send troops to any foreign land.... and they are free....... Freer, because MORE PEACEFUL, than WE are.....

NO SOLDIER "HAS" TO OBEY. It may or may not be deemed "illegal" and get him/her in all sorts of trouble; and that would be of course troublesome to their families, too. BUT THERE IS A MORAL LAW THAT SUPERCEDES EVERYTHING. And that Moral Law is NOT "obeying orders". It is THINKING FOR ONESELF AND TAKING RESPONSIBILITY.

This is not meant as an attack on anyone; but only to be as completely informative as possible. The statements I made can be VERIFIED. Or I wouldn't be making them. BMT

Sunday October 11, 2009, 1:34 am
There is almost always a choice. I have the utmost respect for the US soldiers understand who tried to opt out of an illegal war, and did all they could not to take part in the mass murder of innocent civilians. Even if it meant they had to leave the USA together with their wives and children. I'm sure a lot of people called them cowards. I think they are heroes.

Dec. 8, 2004
Deserters: We Won't Go To Iraq
U.S. Soldiers Seeking Refuge In Canada May Face Serious Penalties

By Rebecca Leung




60 Minutes Wednesday talks to U.S. soldiers who have deserted their units and are staying in Canada (CBS)




(CBS) The Pentagon says more than 5,500 servicemen have deserted since the war started in Iraq.

60 Minutes Wednesday found several of these deserters who left the Army or Marine Corps rather than go to Iraq. Like a generation of deserters before them, they fled to Canada.

What do these men, who have violated orders and oaths, have to say for themselves? They told Correspondent Scott Pelley that conscience, not cowardice, made them American deserters. "I was a warrior. You know? I always have been. I’ve always felt that way -- that if there are people who can’t defend themselves, it’s my responsibility to do that," says Pfc. Dan Felushko, 24.

It was Felushko's responsibility to ship out with the Marines to Kuwait in Jan. 2003 to prepare for the invasion of Iraq. Instead, he slipped out of Camp Pendleton, Calif., and deployed himself to Canada.

"I didn’t want, you know, 'Died deluded in Iraq' over my gravestone," says Felushko. "If I'd gone, personally, because of the things that I believed, it would have felt wrong. Because I saw it as wrong, if I died there or killed somebody there, that would have been more wrong."

He told Pelley it wasn't fighting that bothered him. In fact, he says he started basic training just weeks after al Qaeda attacked New York and Washington –- and he was prepared to get even for Sept. 11 in Afghanistan.

But Felushko says he didn't see a connection between the attack on America and Saddam Hussein.

"(What) it basically comes down to, is it my right to choose between what I think is right and what I think is wrong?" asks Felushko. "And nobody should make me sign away my ability to choose between right and wrong."

But Felushko had signed a contract to be with the U.S. Marine Corps. "It's a devil's contract if you look at it that way," he says.

How does he feel about being in Toronto while other Marines are dying in Fallujah, Najaf and Ramadi?

"It makes me struggle with doubt, you know, about my decision," says Felushko.

What does he say to the families of the American troops who have died in Iraq?

"I honor their dead. Maybe they think that my presence dishonors their dead. But they made a choice the same as I made a choice," says Felushko. "My big problem is that, if they made that choice for anything other than they believed in it, then that's wrong. Right? And the government has to be held responsible for those deaths, because they didn’t give them an option." Felushko’s father is Canadian, so he has dual citizenship, and he can legally stay in Canada. But it’s not that easy for other American deserters.

Canadian law has changed since the Vietnam era. Back then, an estimated 55,000 Americans deserted to Canada or dodged the draft. And in those days, Canada simply welcomed them.

But today’s American deserters, such as Brandon Hughey, will need to convince a Canadian immigration board that they are refugees.

Hughey volunteered for the Army to get money for college. He graduated from high school in San Angelo, Texas, just two months after the president declared war in Iraq.

What did he think about the case for going to war? "I felt it was necessary if they did have these weapons, and they could end up in our cities and threaten our safety," says Hughey. "I was supportive. At first, I didn't think to question it."

He says at first, he was willing to die "to make America safe." And while Hughey was in basic training, he didn't get much news. But when he left basic training, he started following the latest information from Iraq.

"I found out, basically, that they found no weapons of mass destruction. They were beginning to come out and say it's not likely that we will find any -- and the claim that they made about ties to al Qaeda was coming up short, to say the least," says Hughey. "It made me angry, because I felt our lives were being thrown away as soldiers, basically."

When Hughey got orders for Iraq, he searched the Internet and found Vietnam era war resisters willing to show him the way north. In fact, they were willing to drive him there, and a Canadian television news camera went along.

Hughey had an invitation to stay with a Quaker couple that helped Americans avoid the draft during Vietnam. From Fort Hood, Texas, to St. Catherine's in Ontario, Canada, Hughey crossed the border, duty free.

Pelley read letters about Hughey's desertion that were sent to the editor of a San Antonio newspaper.

"It makes me sad to know that there's that much hate in the country," says Hughey. "Before I joined the Army, I would have thought the same way. Anyone who said no to a war, I would have thought them a traitor and a coward. So, in that essence, I'm thankful for this experience, because it has opened my eyes and it has taught me not to take things on the surface."

However, he adds: "I have to say that my image of my country always being the good guy, and always fighting for just causes, has been shattered."

Hughey, and other deserters, will be represented before the Canadian Immigration and Refugee Board by Toronto lawyer Jeffry House.

His clients will have to prove that, if they are returned to the United States, they wouldn't just be prosecuted for what they did -– they would be also be persecuted. How will House make that claim?

"People should have a right to say, 'I'm not fighting in that war. That's an illegal war. There's illegal stuff going on the ground. I'm not going,'" says House. "And anyone who says soldiers should go to jail if they don't fight in an illegal war is persecuting them."

And it’s something House has experience with. In 1969, he graduated from the University of Wisconsin, got drafted, and spent the rest of his life in Canada.

House's legal strategy will focus on his contention that President Bush is not complying with international law. But how will he defend volunteers who signed a contract?

"The United States is supposed to comply with treaty obligations like the U.N. charter, but they don’t," says House. "When the president isn’t complying with the Geneva Accords or with the U.N. charter, are we saying, 'Only the soldier who signed up when he was 17 -- that guy has to strictly comply with contract? The president, he doesn’t have to?' I don’t think so. I don’t think that is fair." [...]

More at http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/06/60II/main659336.shtml

Sunday October 11, 2009, 2:18 am
"Ohhhhhhhhh David I so wish it was that easy....No war, bring them all home, yes is what I wish too...but alas it doesnt work that way nor that fast...This is gonna take some time...we are stuck in a endless whirlpool trying to get out....Time is what we need but time is not what we have."

We have all the time in the world Gorilly but if no one makes the first move nothing will ever happen...

The Vietnam war was closed down largely, if not entirely because the people of that generation were able to see the war play out on tv. It was the first war where is was difficult for the government to hide the gory facts of the unwinnable war...Protestors and peoples refusal to be drafted closed that war down...Lack of public support and ultimately lack of willing participants...

The unwinnable war in Afghanistan is similar, in that public support is failing but the fascination to me is that kids are still willing to participate even without a draft...Has logic been replaced with the fear of unemployment?

Maybe gen X/Y is so far removed from the reality of Vietnam that they do not realse what they do?...

War is war and should be no more!...There is such a thing as negotiating but negotiation is not possible when combined with war...It is difficult to hold a reasonable conversation with anyone after killing their family and blasting their best friend's head off?

Sunday October 11, 2009, 2:38 am
On one care2 'war' thread I read (along the lines of) "I do not approve of war and all troops should be withdrawn. But until then we should support our troops and if they ask for more troops we should send them...And, no it wasn't written by the testosterone filled, power crazy would be if could be "commandant" McChrystal...

No doubt the person who wrote that would gladly throw themselves under a speeding train if anyone wearing a badge told them to...

If someone 'told' me to go to war I would tell them to bugger off, mind their own buisiness and send their own children instead...Makes sense to me.

Actions speak louder than words and actions stop wars. No soldiers, no wars.

Sunday October 11, 2009, 2:42 am
War is only possible by the inaction of those who condemn war?

Sunday October 11, 2009, 2:59 am
Thanks Brigitte...You and Hughey summed up all of my rants in a few paragraphs...If anyone didn't bother to read 'the adventures of Hughey', please do, wake up and realise that you don't actually have to go to war to understand it.

Sunday October 11, 2009, 10:38 am
Great posts and discussion, with at least one tiresome exception. I was truly surprised that President Obama won the award as it seems a bit premature. He has the good intentions. So far, that is about it, though I believe he wishes there was more. He really needs support. Anyhoo, thanks, David.

Sunday October 11, 2009, 12:15 pm
There is no question that the U.S. headed off down the path to war with the same abandon that had happened over Vietnam : more so even. I still recall the U.S. reaction from all those who were shocked that Bush had decided to do it while our government would not violate agreements meant to secure the world against nuclear arms. 'God Bless the Canadians!'
Barack Obama has already violated those agreements again - this early in his term.
I am referring to support of Israel and ignoring Gaza. $30 Bn annually towards arms supply to a place bulldozing the Palestinian natives' wells and orchards.
Also to the repetition of nonsense against Ahmadinejad : who loudly calls 'Hypocrites!'...and is not heard because few will truthfully transmit his message.
Did you know you can put a translation button in your browser ?
'Give Him Time! You cannot undo the Past in a Moment!'
How long has it taken to increase Bagram detentions in the style of Guantanamo ? Where is the compassion in shooting Afghans and Pakistanis over ZIraqis ? Where is the responsibility in opening up field orders to allow 'hot pursuit' no matter where it may lead ?
There is no ROE anymore : not even a pretense of restraint. Pakistanis are targeting their own to maintain the economic support on which they depend.
Killing people in mountains, deserts, squalor and starvation may be 'duty' for the military. There are enough organizations around to show that those who have been in Iraq now know better. There are more to show that many vets from the area have become sick from causes which the board here will tell about - but which you won't hear about from those promoting 'responsibility' to 'fix' the problem.
The only fixing going on resembles that which happened in Somalia : destruction of government and life without law - 'The Most Dangerous Place on Earth'.

Sunday October 11, 2009, 1:14 pm


War and Peace Prizes

By Howard Zinn

I was dismayed when I heard Barack Obama was given the Nobel peace prize. A shock, really, to think that a president carrying on two wars would be given a peace prize. Until I recalled that Woodrow Wilson, Theodore Roosevelt, and Henry Kissinger had all received Nobel peace prizes. The Nobel committee is famous for its superficial estimates, won over by rhetoric and by empty gestures, and ignoring blatant violations of world peace.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23690.htm

Sunday October 11, 2009, 4:01 pm
It shows the complexity of war and peace to award the Nobel Peace Prize to Obama and in the last two years he changed the consciousness of the world. Obama lead the world toward peace before he was elected president. He is closing Guantanamo, ending the war in Iraq, ending torture, ending nuclear weapons, ending the Afghanistan war-I hope, and negotiates intelligently with everybody. Obama deserves the Nobel Peace Prize because he is consistent and thoughtful, not impulsive and macho.

The existing system he became part of is a warmonger system. Obama said to the gay lesbian and transgender organization this morning or yesterday, I saw on the news, that, "do not be impatient from what we do not do now, for we will arrive at a just conclusion and outcome that you will be happy with." (my paraphrase )

War and ridding our gov. of Corporate American dominance is the same. It can't be done over night, so patience and keep sending letters, petitions, and emails to voice your opinion in the meantime.

I totally agree with the views here. Contradictory on the surface, but they are all trying to achieve the same goals: peace, human rights, and justice.

Huda, the sacrifice that Carrie talked of with her son in the military is patriotism and service that used to be critical for survival in a world with constant fear from attack. I don't know of a case in recent history where the U.S. has done more than defend Corporate American interests of done the guard dog duty for the rich and powerful. Iraq to San Salvador, Grenada, to Cuba, Iran and Vietnam to Indonesia have all seen the U.S. mass murder their people for "our freedom." This means it is propaganda and lies. Our freedom is threatened by what our military has done, but the soldiers are not able to question why or what for. We in the U.S. live in a DUMMY DOWN culture. God is a joke but dummy down and don't ask why it doesn't make sense. Why are there people with no money and need help living in cardboard boxes, but others live in million dollar penthouses and have their own planes. Socially we haven't changed since the days of the Egyptian Pharaohs 10,000 years ago. Just different sky godz, but they have the same mythology as Horus. Born on the 25th of Dec. from a virgin mother. Three kings followed a star to find him when he was born to present him with gifts. Horus was called the one, the true god, the son of god, the light, all 3000 years before Christ and he was crucified and died for the sins of the people, was resurrected on the 3 day and rose to be by his father's side... Christianity stole this myth and put their name on it.

It is a story to remember the critical days of our sun's change on our horizon, planting and harvesting seasons, and the winter and summer solstice. Religions 3000 B.C. about a sky god or sun god don't make sense but Christ on a cross does. . . It is this kind of cartoon logic that Obama is trying to work with between the Arabs and Jews and Christians.

We have to stand back from things to see what they really look like. If you are in the middle or believe something without really being able to separate from it enough to look at it critically or put it on the conceptual table and examine it, you are only looking at your own feelings. Emotions and feelings distort practical and critical thought. The more emotion the more distortion and lack of clarity.

We must end the age of military confrontation and the curse of rich and poor classes or people starving or having no chance at a good education. We are one species with different faces and identities that must learn to respect and understand ourselves well enough to respect others. If you are feeling disrespect or anger toward yourself and don't love yourself with acceptance and understanding, how can you love or accept others. The most hateful people don't love themselves and have never felt love, so they hate. It is a cry of pain. A cry for help. How do I survive this is acted out by making someone else feel hated and watching how they deal with the pain, in hopes of learning how to deal with their own pain. But they only hurt others over and over never getting over their own sense of not being loved by hurting others.

War makes hate and death. Today we can no longer think in terms of armies or wars or we will recognize that our worst enemy is ourselves. War is the enemy.

One World -with no war and no countries with no religions so we mature as cultures to be more human -

Whirled Peas-David or World Peace

Sunday October 11, 2009, 4:24 pm
Thanks Cassy for explaining the Micky mouse culture! or is it Tom & Jerry? one thing i would like to add, is the Egyptians have left a culture! not destruction and legacy of pain! and the Christ , is a respected Historical figure which was miss used and abused to serve the same greed system we have today! they are selling the figure for guilt trips, and salvation tickets! it not his fault he was a great teacher like the rest before him and after him! we can't condemn some one , because Micky mouse have no brain to understand nothing more than Cheese! :)) my respect!
Namaste! peace and peas Hugs,loafs and loads of fishes!

Sunday October 11, 2009, 9:50 pm
It is true Huda, Egyptology used to claim that ancient Egypt was the root culture that all others came from, but today linguistics studies show we are all members of the Indo-European languages. The oldest culture or language being Sanskrit from India.

I really appreciate your ANGER! What the hell does the mind of a person tell them, even in cartoon logic, when you kill people who did not attack U.S.? ? ? They think, "Ohh, now they like Americans and want our kind of democracy." Dahhh maybe they will give U.S. their oil? Or maybe, they will fear U.S. and our really big and high tech military power and do what we tell them to do...? It is all stupid. No real critical thinking person IN THE WORLD would believe any of this propaganda crap from bush and cheney or the PNAC cabal.

Really, loaves and fiskees with spinach to shiver me timbers and be superman or mighty mouse mentality.

Bill Maher is correct, "Grow up or die," when he ended his movie Religulous = ridiculous+religion

The cartoon logic comes from a pleasure bubble lifestyle that insulates people from thinking and traditionally we can't say our grandparents were idiots for what they believed religiously, but they were or are because they are using cartoon logic even when they suffered and starved with no pleasure bubble lifestyle. The combination of living an insulated life from hunger and hardship has made our ethics follow our leaders like a foot ball coach. Ra Ra go team go is how we encourage our troops, without a thought about the mass murder and destruction they are causing or why they are even there, where ever there is... No thinking about things that people in charge are supposed to think about, dummy down culture. FOREVER since recorded history, people take the path of least resistance and DON'T THINK if they can get out of the work. Just like anything else we do, if we don't do it we lose skill and ability to do it, so most Americans can NOT THINK CRITICALLY. They assume god is real or bush is not lying or spewing propaganda and soldiers think their orders are what they have to follow without questioning the source.

We all live in a military model culture and can not question religion, political leaders, or authorities without a lot of trouble and rejection from those that hear U.S. Those that think critically are trouble makers and out of the mainstream culture of cartoon logic military lock step sheeple.

It has been that way since human history has been recorded. It does not bode well for our survival as a species.

One World - thinking critically and respecting what other people think too = cultural plurality -

Peace

Sunday October 11, 2009, 9:52 pm
It is true Huda, Egyptology used to claim that ancient Egypt was the root culture that all others came from, but today linguistics studies show we are all members of the Indo-European languages. The oldest culture or language being Sanskrit from India.

I really appreciate your ANGER! What the hell does the mind of a person tell them, even in cartoon logic, when you kill people who did not attack U.S.? ? ? They think, "Ohh, now they like Americans and want our kind of democracy." Dahhh maybe they will give U.S. their oil? Or maybe, they will fear U.S. and our really big and high tech military power and do what we tell them to do...? It is all stupid. No real critical thinking person IN THE WORLD would believe any of this propaganda crap from bush and cheney or the PNAC cabal.

Really, loaves and fiskees with spinach to shiver me timbers and be superman or mighty mouse mentality.

Bill Maher is correct, "Grow up or die," when he ended his movie Religulous = ridiculous+religion

The cartoon logic comes from a pleasure bubble lifestyle that insulates people from thinking and traditionally we can't say our grandparents were idiots for what they believed religiously, but they were or are because they are using cartoon logic even when they suffered and starved with no pleasure bubble lifestyle. The combination of living an insulated life from hunger and hardship has made our ethics follow our leaders like a foot ball coach. Ra Ra go team go is how we encourage our troops, without a thought about the mass murder and destruction they are causing or why they are even there, where ever there is... No thinking about things that people in charge are supposed to think about, dummy down culture. FOREVER since recorded history, people take the path of least resistance and DON'T THINK if they can get out of the work. Just like anything else we do, if we don't do it we lose skill and ability to do it, so most Americans can NOT THINK CRITICALLY. They assume god is real or bush is not lying or spewing propaganda and soldiers think their orders are what they have to follow without questioning the source.

We all live in a military model culture and can not question religion, political leaders, or authorities without a lot of trouble and rejection from those that hear U.S. Those that think critically are trouble makers and out of the mainstream culture of cartoon logic military lock step sheeple.

It has been that way since human history has been recorded. It does not bode well for our survival as a species.

One World - thinking critically and respecting what other people think too = cultural plurality -

Peace

Sunday October 11, 2009, 9:54 pm
It is true Huda, Egyptology used to claim that ancient Egypt was the root culture that all others came from, but today linguistics studies show we are all members of the Indo-European languages. The oldest culture or language being Sanskrit from India.

I really appreciate your ANGER! What the hell does the mind of a person tell them, even in cartoon logic, when you kill people who did not attack U.S.? ? ? They think, "Ohh, now they like Americans and want our kind of democracy." Dahhh maybe they will give U.S. their oil? Or maybe, they will fear U.S. and our really big and high tech military power and do what we tell them to do...? It is all stupid. No real critical thinking person IN THE WORLD would believe any of this propaganda crap from bush and cheney or the PNAC cabal.

Really, loaves and fiskees with spinach to shiver me timbers and be superman or mighty mouse mentality.

Bill Maher is correct, "Grow up or die," when he ended his movie Religulous = ridiculous+religion

The cartoon logic comes from a pleasure bubble lifestyle that insulates people from thinking and traditionally we can't say our grandparents were idiots for what they believed religiously, but they were or are because they are using cartoon logic even when they suffered and starved with no pleasure bubble lifestyle. The combination of living an insulated life from hunger and hardship has made our ethics follow our leaders like a foot ball coach. Ra Ra go team go is how we encourage our troops, without a thought about the mass murder and destruction they are causing or why they are even there, where ever there is... No thinking about things that people in charge are supposed to think about, dummy down culture. FOREVER since recorded history, people take the path of least resistance and DON'T THINK if they can get out of the work. Just like anything else we do, if we don't do it we lose skill and ability to do it, so most Americans can NOT THINK CRITICALLY. They assume god is real or bush is not lying or spewing propaganda and soldiers think their orders are what they have to follow without questioning the source.

We all live in a military model culture and can not question religion, political leaders, or authorities without a lot of trouble and rejection from those that hear U.S. Those that think critically are trouble makers and out of the mainstream culture of cartoon logic military lock step sheeple.

It has been that way since human history has been recorded. It does not bode well for our survival as a species.

One World - thinking critically and respecting what other people think too = cultural plurality -

Peace

Sunday October 11, 2009, 9:57 pm
Sorry for trying to get through the lag by trying to reload the page 3 times... Wish we could delete posts.

Monday October 12, 2009, 1:29 am
Thanks Casey!
YES we are on a long evolving trip since the time we jumped off the trees so to speak!
Hinduism and Egyptians are two religions which have existed next to each other in time, and they both share lots together! with one difference one survived and one was wiped of the map by aggressive greed oriented POWERS!
Hinduism is the oldest practiced religion in this planet ! I am a yogi who have devoted the biggest part of my life to study ancient religions and cultures! i have totally different understanding to believe system, and what is going today in our world! the hidden powers behind OUR misery today IS- built on supremacy, and greed we don't see them on the screen, they are just a small evil bunch who have been there all the time, only thing is we are awakening to a different reality today! we have time to ask the question which our ancestors didn't ask, they were tide to the slavery wheel of survival making money for the Lords of the land! Not that it is different today, we are poor slaves today! because we are slaving for free, and the land lord, is just sucking on poure blood, and have no concerns for if we live or die! in the past they cared for the slaves, cause they were part of the wealth they have ! today, the slave are allowed to die! and executed in selective ways , to fit the new world order they are creating! brain wash , and select the species according to their needs! according to colour, language, race! and religion! who wants Africans, in Africa, we don't need them any more, cause they are controlling much recourse which is needed to create the high technology machines we are creating, we needed them in the past because we didn't have the machines! so goes for the Arabs who need them, they are sitting on the biggest oil pool, and they have a different god and they are trouble makers! who wants Gay and lesbians, who are not producing a new blond, blue eyes, new generation! the 17% of the planet population have been controlling this world for so long now the white race! who needs this excess luggage on the planet, so execute them either, with a nuke, Ebola virus, Aides virus! or swine flue, they are designers viruses for certain societies in this planet! just a cocktail cooked in Baxter labs! its a plan to wipe the most of us on this planet, to have the Garden of Eden back for themselves! that is the hidden plan, so all what we are doing is just expose it bit by bit, and they don't like the thinkers, the anarchist the ones who can see through the plan! I am a Ninja, with one religion, Peace, love, and joy to all and every one on earth! Brother lets , keep the Fight! peace to earth , peace to airy space! peace to plants and peace to the trees! peace to all sentient being in the universe!
Namaste!

Monday October 12, 2009, 10:12 am
I'm trying to figure Simon out. He seems really far left and I agree with much of he says. Didn't Bill Maher say we are still doing rendition at CIA blacksites? He didn't back up his remark with a source or facts, but is this true? If this is true, then Obama is not in control because he said that we do not torture. I still think Simon is hard on Obama, but we need people like Simon to remind us of these things.

Monday October 12, 2009, 3:31 pm
Dragonfly Kid
I don't know if Simon is hard on Obama : but he is very hard on what Obama represents.
If you read the thread carefully, you will see that people are talking all around the topic from different angles. It's a bit like the blind men describing the elephant by feeling its different parts.
In any case, I have enough cynicism for six regarding Obama. I really do think the award was straight out of the Onion.
But...it wasn't the first time.
And the CIA black sites ? One could check out Diego Garcia...but Bagram AFB in Afghanistan has an increase in people held without charges in conditions of torture.
If you want to know if somwething is true : Wikipedia and YouTube are good alternative places to Search.

Monday October 12, 2009, 8:16 pm
The Nobel Peace Prize is given to people who bring the world together; the opposite of what bush&co did. Obama is a real person with a polished education, a sensitive emotional life that includes insight into what his emotions mean to his life, in other words, he lives by his ethics and humanistic values. These qualities are the opposite of the materialist power centered lack of ethics that bush and cheney terrorized the world with. Ignorance and the inability to connect the meaningful humanistic value dots, International War Crimes, lying to the congress and the people of the United States to go to war, and conspiring to frame the 9/11 attack on the attackers, how convenient, while the towers were brought down with military grade thermite and military grade explosives that pulverized the cement floors. Traitors the like of which the world has never seen are bush&co.

The hope of the world won the election and is living up to his promises to the point of the judges critical thoughts to cause more unity and world peace than any other living person. Period !

Obama is a breath of fresh CLEAN air compared to the lying polluted and blood stained legacy of bush&co.

The world knows Obama represents the people's best interests and has never worked for corporations or special interests. On the other hand the republicans represent the rich and powerful special interests and bush&co stated the top 2% of the wealthy powerful people were bush's base. Their war was for control over resources-oil and they didn't care who dies to make them and their Haliburton and Exon type of friends richer. Corrupt Capitalist Fascism is bush&co's legacy.

Obama's legacy is his life and work to make this a better place for all people, not just the rich and powerful.

Obama negotiates with Iran and the Palestinians and now we have U.N. Nuclear Inspectors investigating the Iranian plants and facilities, and the settlements have become a political and cultural debate in Israel. Bush&co could not make the U.N. partners or trigger peaceful ethics to be discussed in Israel concerning the settlements or the Palestinians. Bush&co was creating conflict between the Arabs and the Jews with the Iraq war stupidity and inflaming the Iran and MOTIVATING Iran to prepare for war against Israel... It was INSANE and the world felt threatened very TERRIFIED from bush&co.

Obama is the opposite and the world is a different place without the bush&co corporate owner special interest puppets.

Today Obama deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. He has DONE more for peace than any republican administration to date, with the exception of Eisenhower's-he was a great president. Today, Eisenhower's term the Military Industrial Complex that took U.S. to war and created the 9/11 tower collapse to justify their war to control M.E. oil, while they control our media to government's legislation, elections, and the world's resources and labor, makes Eisenhower look like the prophet he was.

Gotta think the pure emotion and rage of thought that Huda expresses comes from knowing the victimization of America's Military Industrial Complex, even more than I do, but we both know we need to express how wrong it is. Separation of Church=corporation and State needs to be enforced. No more corporate owned media, lobbies, or any influence of our government or public dependent services or commons should be the interpretation of the law. Corruption is the consequence and war and mass murder is their tool to continue satiating their blood lust for more and more wealth, control, and power.

One World - without corporate government influence and Obama's model for a people centered government

and peace -

Monday October 12, 2009, 10:57 pm
Quite an impassioned paen.
Too bad I see no demonstration of compassion towards the blockade in Gaza and the suffering there as Israel nwill not let life sustaining supplies through.
The place is essentially an American fiefdom as far as weaponry is concerned. Billions are spent there every year.
The attacks happened just before Obama took office.
Nothing was said.
The murderous blockade into a prison camp continues.
Cruise Missiles and other exotic weaponry kill in the mountains of AfPak.
Healthcare is another onrushing insurance scam : fit to compound the banksters fraud.
You guys keep getting it between the eyes and in the gut.
We must believe.
Uh-huh. That's a good chap. Just keep repeating the mantra. I really haven't seen the like of public hypnosis to approach this since JFK : so he really is a phenomenon.
Too bad spellbinding isn't performance.

Tuesday October 13, 2009, 10:22 am
Not much of suffering in Gaza: they still have enough money, food, etc to have 5-8 children on average. People here can't afford such family size. Majority Gazans are paid by UN stipends per capita, so more children - better pay. That's why US taxpayers don't do demonstrations of compassion toward Gaza.

Arab countries get 12BILLION a year from US Aid, and US gets only "Death to America" and burning Americam flags from all outdoor activities over there. That's 4 times more than Israel gets, but at least they coordinate policies and are reliable allies.

Besides, Gazans democratically elected Hamas who openly called for a war with Israel. Hamas started the war, lost it and now wants compassion. Israel cannot lift the blockade when Hamas brings rockets and bombs Israeli civilians. Humanitarian Aid - hundreds trucks a day - are coming from Israel to Gaza.

Well, first, Gazans, get rid off those fanatics and understand that the road to prosperity comes through peace and labour, not through firing rockets and begging for compassion at the same time. Look at the West Bank - like is much better over there. No Hamas - no problems.

Tuesday October 13, 2009, 10:52 am
Zoo regulation!
PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLLES!

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 2:23 pm
The Wrong House

Ask Awal Khan About Obama's Prize

By Brendan Cooney

October 14, 2009 "Counterpunch" -- Giving Obama the Nobel Peace Prize is like giving someone the literature prize because you hope he writes some good books.

He doesn’t even have to be an aspiring writer. To say Obama aspires to peace is to ignore his escalation of the occupation of Afghanistan.

It may be a joke, but the Norwegians have told more morbid ones: Roosevelt in 1906 and Kissinger in 1973 both had records far more blood-soaked than anything Obama has had time for.

But he has had time to make an impact on people such as Awal Khan, who might want to weigh in on Obama’s prize.

Khan was serving as an artillery commander in the Afghan National Army away from his home in the eastern province of Khost on April 8, when U.S. forces came knocking. In a case of “wrong house,” they killed his 17-year-old daughter, Nadia, and his 15-year-old son, Aimal. They also killed his wife, a schoolteacher who taught villagers for free. They killed his brother and wounded another daughter.

After she thought the dust had cleared, Khan’s cousin’s wife walked outside. She was nine-months pregnant. She took five shots to the stomach. Her fetus died, but she lived. She might have some thoughts on Obama as a man who “created a new climate,” as the Nobel committee claimed.

U.S. military spokesman Colonel Greg Julian said the slaughtered family had no connection to U.S. enemies. “It was an unfortunate set of circumstances,” he said.

A grieving Khan told Agence France-Press, “The (international) coalition has to stop this cruelty and brutal action.”

Khan is not likely to get his wish from Obama. Even in his announcement that he would accept the prize, Obama resorted hawk talk: “I am the Commander-in-Chief of a country that's … working … to confront a ruthless adversary that directly threatens the American people and our allies.”

That is audacity. At its greatest, the threat to the American people from the Taliban is indirect. And whatever the risk in pulling out, it’s something we have to live with. To say that it’s worth thousands of dead civilians to possibly reduce an indirect risk to Americans makes sense only in the twisted nationalistic calculus in which an American life is worth many foreign lives. A peace prize should go only to someone who believes in the following math: 1 human life = 1 human life.

Perhaps the only reason we know the name Awal Khan is that he was an army colonel. The Khost Provincial Council closed its offices for a month in protest. Provincial councils of Laghman, Logar and Zabol have closed their offices to protest other civilian killings. And Obama is still listening to military advisers talk about how the secret to counterinsurgency is winning over hearts and minds.

There are thousands of less “important” people we could interview. We could talk to the families of 95 children reported killed in a U.S. attack on May 4 and 5 in western Farah province. A list of the dead, with names and ages, was compiled by an Afghan government commission based on the testimony of villagers, said Obaidullah Helali, a lawmaker from Farah and a member of the government’s investigative team.

To see how things look from an Afghan perspective, why not read the independent newspaper Cheragh? Perhaps Obama would return his medal if he read the May 7 editorial on “the killing of so many humans, chopped bodies without coffins, and the orphaned children and widows. In reality, voices and murmurs are choked with pain, and pens are unable to write about it.”

Compare that to Obama’s voice on the subject. Does someone who calls the occupation of Afghanistan “a war of necessity” and adds tens of thousands more troops to it have something to do with “the abolition or reduction of standing armies,” as Alfred Nobel stipulated for the prize in his will?

For the entire article go to http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23724.htm

Saturday October 17, 2009, 10:35 am
Have a look at Michael Moore's website (http://www.michaelmoore.com/) - the article "Get off Obama's Back"

Saturday October 17, 2009, 11:08 am
Thanks Leni! and that is the naked truth! so he was given it for whom he is and what he is standing for and represents!
Peace be with you Namasté

Sunday October 18, 2009, 7:40 am
Fascinating reading! Before he'd been in office 90 days he was being criticized - now in less than a year everyone has THE PLAN (and described it quite eloquently here) that he should have been following. We didn't elect him KING, we elected him President - he still has to deal with all the old fogies that date back to Nixon years that are the old guard and will not budge off their cushy seats in the Senate or House - he doesn't get to make decisions and TELL everyone what we're gonna do - he has to go up against men who are giving themselves raises (latest $15,000 a year!) making boo-coo bucks on the side from lobbys, and are puppets with big business pulling their strings. And through it all, this idealist young man has held to his vision as promised, and continues to be eloquent, honest, and undaunted by the BS he wades through on a daily basis. The Old Guard sees their coming demise and it fighting to hang on to their cushy jobs. I hope to see this country stop dissing him and finally pull it together to support him, and next year clean out the Senate by voting new, YOUNG people in office with no ties or loyalties to anyone except their constiuents, and a burning desire to turn things around in this country and the world. And don't tell me that racism and sexism are not alive and well here - when was the last time anyone made a comment about the Speaker of the House needing to "be put in her place!" I thought SHE was in "her place," boys - SHE IS THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE AND 3RD IN LINE FOR THE PRESIDENCY! lol