Thursday October 22, 2009, 9:25 am
With public support for the Afghan conflict melting and approval of the president's job as commander in chief waning, two top Barack Obama aides -- senior advisor David Axelrod and Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel -- went on the TV talk shows Sunday and used very similar words to explain their latest lengthy policy review as the fault of the long-gone Bush administration ignoring the needs of Afghanistan for years.

Tonight, as first reported by Fox News (Faux news?) "Special Report," former Vice President Dick Cheney fires back in a candid, even blunt, retort:

Having announced his Afghanistan strategy last March, President Obama now seems afraid to make a decision, and unable to provide his commander on the ground with the troops he needs to complete his mission....

It’s time for President Obama to make good on his promise. The White House must stop dithering while America’s armed forces are in danger.

Make no mistake, signals of indecision out of Washington hurt our allies and embolden our adversaries. Waffling while our troops on the ground face an emboldened enemy endangers them and hurts our cause...(What, exactly is your cause Tricky Dicky, to kill for profit?)...

Now they seem to be pulling back and blaming others for their failure to implement the strategy they (Bushco inc.) embraced. It’s time for President Obama to do what it takes to win a war he has repeatedly and rightly called a war of necessity.

Cheney's criticism of the succeeding Democratic administration is not new. However, he reveals tonight that the outgoing Bush administration handed a complete Afghan policy review to the Obama transition team, which asked the Republicans not to release it. The Bush team agreed and its recommendations formed much of the basis of Obama's announcement in March. But now Axelrod and Emanuel are stating that those review questions had not been asked for eight years.

Cheney also repeated tonight some familiar charges: that the Obama policies of pursuing intelligence interrogators -- Cheney called it "hounding" -- risk allowing future attacks on ...the homeland. Cheney maintains new 9/11's possibly killing thousands more Americans were prevented by tough, aggressive policies that have kept terrorists on the defensive.

Cheney also asserts:

You would think that our successors would be going to the intelligence community saying, “How did you do it? What were the keys to preventing another attack over that period of time?”

Instead, they’ve chosen a different path entirely – giving in to the angry left, slandering people who did a hard job well, and demagoguing an issue more serious than any other they’ll face in these four years. No one knows just where that path will lead, but I can promise you this: There will always be plenty of us willing to stand up for the policies and the people that have kept this country safe...

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Why is Cheney not content to sit back and embrace the profit he made from the wars "he started" and the people he slaughtered or is he mentally unstable, hiding and really should be brought to justice?

Thursday October 22, 2009, 9:27 am
as a general rule of thumb -this country/world should be run exactly opposite of the sinister cheney -and that is just what the thumb knows.

Thursday October 22, 2009, 10:08 am
David, I saw this on the news this morning. I felt it was in poor taste. He is trying to save face and justify his administration. I never felt very good about past administrations admonishing present ones. It is an unnecessary distraction.

Thursday October 22, 2009, 1:12 pm
He's just trying to drum up bizness for he & his daughters' P.R. firm...or perhaps he's trying to wangle a trip to the Hague, n'est-ce-pas?

Good Gravy!

Thursday October 22, 2009, 1:44 pm
I am appalled that the Dick is allowed to strut his war for profit, sociopathetic, attempt to cover his ass, spew, and is granted any relevancy in the national security discussion. He should already be behind bars for his war crimes. Instead he boldly takes the national stage to challenge and undermine the work that is before the current administration to repair our global relationships.

When will there be a stop put to it? charges filed, and prosecution take place?

He conducts himself as though he is some sort of honored statesman, whose sage advice is respected and welcomed by all. Artfully crafting his spin, pretending that his history and perspective stand unblemished as the gold standard for security and military strategies.

Positively nauseating.

Thursday October 22, 2009, 2:19 pm
Just came across this bit, so sharing, nothing like hearing it from the horses' mouth, so to speak.

From: The National Security Network

Gen. Eaton: Dick Cheney Was "Incompetent War Fighter"


Today, National Security Network Senior Adviser Gen. Paul Eaton (Ret.), who served more than 30 years in the United States Army and from 2003-2004 oversaw the training of the Iraqi military, responded to Dick Cheney's accusations on Afghanistan from last night:

"The record is clear: Dick Cheney and the Bush administration were incompetent war fighters. They ignored Afghanistan for 7 years with a crude approach to counter-insurgency warfare best illustrated by: 1. Deny it. 2. Ignore it. 3. Bomb it. While our intelligence agencies called the region the greatest threat to America, the Bush White House under-resourced our military efforts, shifted attention to Iraq, and failed to bring to justice the masterminds of September 11.

"The only time Cheney and his cabal of foreign policy 'experts' have anything to say is when they feel compelled to protect this failed legacy. While President Obama is tasked with cleaning up the considerable mess they left behind, they continue to defend torture or rewrite a legacy of indifference on Afghanistan. Simply put, Mr. Cheney sees history throughout extremely myopic and partisan eyes.

Thursday October 22, 2009, 4:21 pm
Oh David, how you do pull my chain! What I feel about Cheney is not printable and would get me thrown off Care2! Need I say more about the war mongering coward "The DICK", Cheney? Sorry, but from time to time, I do have a problem with my grammar and punctuation.

Thursday October 22, 2009, 5:03 pm
What I would have to say about that war criminal would likely bring a visit from the SS.

Thursday October 22, 2009, 6:26 pm
"or just a very well heeled very stupid greedy bastard?" Yuch...trouble is he is just one of many that thrive on the hate that comes their way. True Satanic vampires drink it up....wish we could replace with HAGUE!

Thursday October 22, 2009, 7:02 pm
For humanity's sake! Don't increase the oppressiove occupation!!! Bring the troops home IMMEDIATELY!!!

To hear what many of the women of Afghanistan want, please listen to R.A.W.A., Afghanistan's oldest women's rights organisation:

http://www.rawa.org

Friday October 23, 2009, 2:18 am
Of course President Obama is hesitating over sending more troops into the utter confusion, the fiasco of Afghanistan. He knows that the whole sordid business was the result of abysmal ignorance coupled with voracious greed, yet he is being pressed by the military to prolong or even escalate the farce. All military training is aimed at producing brutal brainless butchers, moronic mindless murderers. He should repudiate them and stop the senseless slaughter immediately. It would not be a defeat but rather a victory for commonsense.

Friday October 23, 2009, 5:31 am
This is not about Cheney. He is retired. Lest all of you forget, Obama is the one who said over and over that Afghanistan was the right war. We have American men and women over there. Obama himself sent additional forces earlier this year. He hired McCrystal to report to him what needed to be done. He has the report. Either follow up on it or get our people out of there. To let them sit there in the line of fire without the full support they need is not good. These are real people. Good men are dying there today while the president sits on a report he asked for and that he has had for a while now.
I don't care about Cheney. I do care about these soldiers.

Friday October 23, 2009, 5:37 am
I dont listen to Cheney - but I do care that Obama is not listening to the Commander he put in Charge of Afghanistan - Obama has had information on his desk and in front of him for weeks now about Afghanistan and what is needed since he did say this was the right war! If he feels this is the right War - why for the love of GOD is he not sending help to our Soldiers or bringing them all home? Obama grow some backbone and make a decision - your haning our Soldiers there to die - oh and for those who say this is Cheney/Bush fault - Obama is President NOW - he WON remember - I am sure you do SO THEN WHY CAN'T HE BE PRESIDENT AND MAKE A DECISION - He can decide to bring our Soldiers home or keep them there - HE IS PRESIDENT NOW BUT HE'S NOT ACTING LIKE ONE - he is still acting like a Canidate...what a joke, his actions on this subject.

Friday October 23, 2009, 5:58 am
And in the meantime our WAR MONGERING "Peace prize" wiener, is busy starting MORE WARS which he can NOT blame on "Bush" or anyone else!!!:

US After New Military Ventures in Africa
http://www.care2.com/news/member/514833197/1284220

So is he intentionally letting our boys die??? Maybe Cheney isn't so far off on his assessment of this particular situation!

Friday October 23, 2009, 6:51 am
Mark, Oh Hardy and Raymond....MEGA DITTO!!!!!!

Friday October 23, 2009, 10:31 am
While I was watching Cheney on TV with the neo-con-gregation flanking him, I saw his daughter turn into a bat and fly away, just as Rep. Alan Grayson said he saw her fly away, while he was talking to Chris Mathews. . .

Who does cheney owe? The Military Industrial Complex owns him. The energy corporations, the military machinery corporations, and the rich and powerful special interests that bush called his base own him.

Cheney is a bourgeoisie whore. If he is talking he is lying or setting propaganda spew from the depths of dishonesty that is his core.

Friday October 23, 2009, 10:46 am
If he thinks that this will prop up his popularity ratings, and hoping to make Obama look like he is tripping over his feet.. he is so wrong.. he definitely is not a winner with this, and does not get to take the chequered flag home...

Friday October 23, 2009, 10:56 am
Regardless of the messenger, he is dithering on this and a lot of things. If he continues to dither and spend Presidential time fighting Fox News, provoking journalists to defend Fox for fear that when Republicans are back in power it could effect them, it will indicate that he is not going to accomplish much for his supporters or the rest of the country. Won't do us any good overseas either, for that matter. There is a reason that his approval numbers have fallen from the stratosphere more quickly than any President since 1953, according to Real Clear Politics website.

Great candidate, he needs to govern and attempt the bipartisanship and do what he promised in his coronation, oops I mean acceptance speech when he said, "the time has come to set aside childish things. I will bring an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn out dogmas, that for far too long have strangled our politics."

Friday October 23, 2009, 10:59 am
Exactly Paul.

Friday October 23, 2009, 10:59 am
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to Paul because you have done so within the last week.

Friday October 23, 2009, 12:12 pm
'Is Dick just a very well heeled very stupid greedy bastard?'

yes

Friday October 23, 2009, 12:30 pm
Most politicians are

Friday October 23, 2009, 12:35 pm
'Is Dick just a very well heeled very stupid greedy bastard?'
Sounds a bit like Obama also!

Friday October 23, 2009, 12:50 pm
My thoughts exactly Ch Hardy but I refrained

Friday October 23, 2009, 1:33 pm
I guess the evil Dick Cheney has nothing more to do than run his mouth since Bush left the White House. Cheney was doing everything then so he didn't have time to talk or anything else. You notice, he never criticized anything Bush did because HE TOLD HIM EVERY MOVE TO MAKE. There have been less than five people on this planet who have been as evil as Dick Cheney.

Friday October 23, 2009, 1:58 pm
Time will tell who those five are.

Friday October 23, 2009, 3:35 pm
Giving the nobel peace prize to obama is like giving it to homer simpson... LOL

Friday October 23, 2009, 4:03 pm
Poor dick.

I mean Dick.

He has so much time on his hands now that he's no longer PRESIDENT and can't OUT people, or lie about WMD, or approve any more tortures, etc. etc.. No wonder the poor guy (and his doddery daughter, Liz) keep busy trying to show what a "ditherer", what a scaredy cat *Nobel Laureate President Barack Who's Sane Obama is.

Well, one man's "dithering" is another woman's "taking as much time as is needed to make the RIGHT decision about a most horrid conundrum: the Afghan situation".

I wish 5 Deferment Chicken Hawk Cheney and his cronies had "dithered" even a bit before taking their eyes off Afghanistan and getting us embroiled in that really unnecessary war in Iraq.

You know, when one mentions that fiasco now, the Republicans wave their hands in dismissal and claim
*NLPBWO has been in office all of 10 months and should have fixed up all the mess that he inherited. I mean, 10 whole entire MONTHS to repair the awesome 8 YEAR damage to our country he inherited.

Ditherer, indeed!

You rock, Obama!!!

Friday October 23, 2009, 5:05 pm
We don't know how the draft dodgers running this country for the last eight years defined victory, much less turned over either occupation with victory at hand. Obama should withdraw unless McChrystal preovides a route to victory. Obama did not invade either country but is responsible for getting our troops out before he clears up the messes Bush and Cheney left him. Obama did not break banks but must cope with those messes too.

Friday October 23, 2009, 5:19 pm
ROFLMAO.....I can always count on the crowd at care2 to make me laugh

Friday October 23, 2009, 5:54 pm
Great description of Cheney (and Liz), Mary Grace. That 5 Deferment Chicken Hawk belongs behind bars for the rest of his miserable life. Cheney was too cowardly to serve in the military during the Vietnam fiasco; and, as a true Chicken Hawk, he pushed the illegal war of aggression against Iraq.

Barack Obama inherited both the Iraq and Afghanistan messes from the incopetent Bush and war-mongering Cheney and has been in office only nine MONTHS; thus, he must be extremely careful about decisions he'll have to make as to whether or not to send more troops to Afghanistan. This decision is an extremely important one and cannot be made hastily.

So, Dick Cheney, shut your big trap and go back to your cave.

Friday October 23, 2009, 9:36 pm
The utter arrogance that DICk shows to this country should show once and for all what little real regard he has for this country, but the dickies and bushies will stay the course, because he's their parties exVP. He's the one with his little plan to dupe the American public, to go to Iraq in the first place, and to ignore Afghanistan. He's self same DiCk, that worked so hard to convince W that were weapons of mass distruction and had a big part in the mess were in now.

If the obstructionists would stop saying NO to everything that they don't find to their liking, (which is anything President Obama and the Democrats say), maybe the President would be able to get something done. I've never in all my years of voting seen such a bunch of Whining, brats, stamping their feet and saying NO I don't wanna, as the Republicans have become. Frankly I'd be ashamed to admit to being a Republican any more, and am glad I took the time to officially change my party affiliation just a little over a month ago.

There isn't a cave big enough to hold both Chaney and his overblown ego!

Lync

Friday October 23, 2009, 9:41 pm
"ROFLMAO.....I can always count on the crowd at care2 to make me laugh"...

Your mindless rhetoric can also be relied on to make the "real people" of the care2 community violently vomit...Feels good does it N EL? (Non Educated Lunatic?)...

Friday October 23, 2009, 11:17 pm
All of the Obama bashing aside, a couple of stars to those that said nice things, we do diverge.

The point is, that the Dick looks like a brown eye while attempting to assassinate O on Afghanistan military strategies. Good Goddess, consider the Bush-Cheney response to the situation, oh, that would be non-response. They totally diverted the campaign in the direction that would shield the Bin Ladens, position 'their' interests in the way that would best facilitate 'their' interests, money and power, and ???.

I think the interesting question here is, thank you Casey, "who does Cheney owe?", or how about, who is he working for/aligned with? What could possibly be the motivation to be so visual and so vocal? Sense might suggest that he'd quietly disappear, praying that the war crimes 'pending?' would likewise disappear. But no.

I didn't think this post was as much about what O was doing, or going to do, in Afghanistan, as taking a look at the Cheney behavior.

Friday October 23, 2009, 11:36 pm
'Who does Cheney owe"...More like who does Cheney work for?...Cheney works for Halliburton which, in turn, works for him?...Works for me, and you?

Saturday October 24, 2009, 12:28 am
Gee,if I recall,'dithering,' delays and indecision was what he and Bu$h did when they were holding the keys to these war$!!!

Saturday October 24, 2009, 12:47 am
They didn't do a lot of dithering before pressing the remote control Ancil...No war, no profit$? :)

Saturday October 24, 2009, 3:57 am
Cheny is one of those who should be accused of misleading the nation,together with G.W.Bush.The sientific report about the truth of 9/11 that led to the involvment of USA in Afghanstan to fight a goast named terrorism will unveil all the facts.A fair trial for Bush and company limited is requested.Can we expect it?

Saturday October 24, 2009, 4:05 am
Call me crazy but I really don't feel like watching this country go through another 911 and I would love to see young girls not murdered for the "crime " of wanting to go to school or women stoned to death for "allowing" themselves to be raped. These changes are not going to happen over night but they are damn sure worth pursuing! A lot of our young men and women are over there risking their lives to try and help these people, they are a lot closer to what's going on and a lot more informed than the bureaucrats giving them orders from 4000 miles away. One of the reasons Americans are hated is that they promise to help to the oppressed and then leave when the political winds change with the job half done allowing for the oppressors to come back, viciously avenge themselves on anyone that opposed them and propagandize the population against us. It's a habit we've gotten into since world war II.

I can't buy this empire BS. If we unleashed the full power of our military without moral restraint we could conquer the world with terrifying ease. If Bush / Cheney were the monsters they are accused of they would have sent dozens of senators and congressmen and pretty much the entire New York Times staff to Guantanamo bay for treason. They also could have pulled a Putin and had the CIA assassinate or imprison critics. They did none of this. They could have done all of it and more. If you want to see threats to freedom of speech, bullying of critics and violation of the constitution the current administration is running rings around the Bush administration.... If you're going to protect the rights of those that are willing to take planes and fly them into buildings to incinerate infidels, you might want to think about protecting buiness owners that provide jobs, produce goods, services and the tax revenues that are paying for all the grand designs and social justice.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 4:10 am
"If we unleashed the full power of our military without moral restraint we could conquer the world with terrifying ease."...Dream on my 'friend'...

Saturday October 24, 2009, 4:16 am
make no mistake...al-queda started this war with the aid of the taliban from bases in afghanastan...al-queda will not simply stop if we leave afghanastan too soon..nobody like war but we were forced into this position as a country and have no choice but to fight al-queda/taliban with everything we have...if the generals need more troops to get the job done then lets get the job done so we can start bringing our men and women home...we did not start this war but have every right to defend ourselves

Saturday October 24, 2009, 5:11 am
"make no mistake...al-queda started this war with the aid of the taliban from bases in afghanastan"...

Oh Joe how gullible can anyone be...Make no mistake "Ex President Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld et al" orchestrated the destruction of the world trade centre in order to suck in the confidence of the US public and start a war...Did you not notice that the war in Afghanistan illegally (WMD lies) spilled into Iraq...Money, money, money and with a little help from his friends (people like you?) Cheney et al (Halliburton?) will continue to use YOUR taxpayer dollars to wage war and line their pockets with gold over the dead bodies of the innocent civilians and American kids (Soldiers)???

Let's bring the troops home NOW before any more deaths occur and the US loses the last thread of credibility it has in the eyes of the world?

Saturday October 24, 2009, 8:06 am
Sorry David ... though I agree that Cheney and Rumsfeld are both horrors, I can't go along with your "conspiracy theory" that "Ex President Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld et al" orchestrated the destruction of the world trade centre in order to suck in the confidence of the US public and start a war." Maybe I'm gullible, too, but that's quite a bridge too far for me.

IMO, there's no need to excessively demonize these people. What overwhelming harm they HAVE done to our country and our people is bad enough, believe me.

My Italian mother used to call these people "facia tosta". Loosely translated, they have faces of stone. Or some gall! That they could dare defend all (the harm) they have done and call it keeping our country safe is incredible.

In order for me to believe that these people "orchestrated the destruction of the world trade centre in order to suck in the confidence of the US public and start a war." I'd have to see them Not as just incredibly blundering, pig-headed and self-serving, (which I believe they are), but as SATANIC.

Mary

Saturday October 24, 2009, 9:41 am
Some here, Paul and Raymond are dithering their logical thought process to conform to their favorite Republican Propaganda Outlet RPO = FOX. Dithering is a chaney word and earns disrespect, just as going to war for WMD's or Iraq played a part in 9/11 LIES !

I am amazed how stupid Americans maintain their stupidity with such intelligent defenses of stupid points of view. Intelligent because they are clearly trying to associate and blame twisted points of view that they justified to support bush&co to go to war and justify breaking INTERNATIONAL LAW making the U.S. a War Crimes nation, but they don't get it... The people who mindlessly create these "Swiftboat" style of accusations are really using their twisted imaginations to form propaganda that is self justifying. They are like child molesters that justify sexual abuse of the child by claiming they liked it and came back for more... They abuse each other when they agree because what they are doing and have done are crimes against humanity and violate self respect and common sense.

The benefit of these people voicing their "call of the trolls" to the rest of U.S. is the repug party is at an all time low of 20% in the latest Gallup poll, and with every word their trollishness becomes more obvious.

Chaney and bush backers are the reason the U.S. is known to the world as a warmongering nation of dumshits and religious bubble heads who couldn't think their way out of a paper bag, if following the FOX propaganda machine is used as a standard for their weak kneed arguments. Garbage in garbage out = FOX propaganda into your head = garbage rationales out, people. Wake up and smell the BS.

When you name call a great man like Obama, your BS is what you broadcast into the wind's of your communication. Chaney and bush have earned their insults for generations to come.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 9:46 am
(Damn, wish I could have sneaked this in before Casey's comment, love ya dude)

Dear Mary, IMHO, there ya go... soulless monsters. And re 9/11? The premise is closer to true/is true, than most are comfortable accepting. There is so much substantiated data to prove that this tragedy was much more than the Disney (Tim Burton? hell, I'm too old to do current twisted right) story we were sold and expected to believe. And that statement addresses the actual event, and then there is the rest of the story. Who and why, all still balls in the air, but we're getting closer. Question everything. Know who your friends are and who you can trust for thoughtful, knowledgeable facts and theory. Pursue, and demand the Truth.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 10:37 am
Osama Bin Laden was documented to be an agent for the CIA right until the 9/11 event occurred, and The Twin towers and building 7 came down, in spite of the fact that steel framed buildings do not fall just from fires, so the book is NOT shut on who was responsible for 9/11.

Only a proper trial of Cheney and Bush, with total open books and records from the CIA and government as to who was responsible will EVER make me see the Bush administration as clear of responsibility of this series of wars that we are trapped in.

If the CIA, Bush, Cheny, and Al Quaida agents working for the CIA are found to be actually responsible for 9/11, then the wars on terror and the series of Mid East wars are unlawful and should be ended IMMEDIATELY, and not when President Obama can get around to it.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 12:18 pm
Casey, bad news, can't stand watching Fox and until the Republican party is pro-choice, I am absolutely not a Republican. No party currently represents me, and I suspect that is true for most Americans.

Not dodging, I supported Military action in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Thinking it may be time to pull out, because if the American people are not supporting the troops then they are at much greater risk. Bush administration made a big mistake by not talking about oil and why they went in and getting the American people to either approve their actions or not. Congress made a big mistake giving a blank authorization which, if I recall, had over 90 votes in the Senate. The time to debate a war is before you are in one. That not happening is primarily the fault of the Bush administration.

Not dodging economic philosophy either. Me, free market, free people, legalize most of what is currently illegal, live and let live, be the change you wish to see in the world, those are representative of my political philosophy. If you know of a party or candidate who fits that description, then maybe I'll join a party. Haven't yet...

I don't watch any TV news on any network. Too hyped up, loud music, and louder people. Gets me too cranked up. Used to watch all of them, including Fox, but quit a long while ago. Funny how much better you feel when you avoid that stuff.

I would strongly suggest that comparing people that you do not know to child molesters is, at the least obnoxious, and at the worst incredibly revealing about yourself. Not that you know anyone who is one, but that you have no sensitivities to those that do. Strong feelings about issues are good, I respect that, even when I disagree. But having friends who have direct experience on the issue of child molesters makes me a bit sensitive to that kind of ridiculous comparison in this kind of forum. Comparing people to something that reprehensible and disgusting is an outrage. It undermines your use of stupid and mindless to describe those that simply disagree, and that is all that I did. Disagreed, and you compare me to a child molester? There is no excuse, reason, or justification for that comparison. You had some credibility with me, always liked Che even if his politics and mine aren't in sync. He stood for what he believed and inspired many with his efforts. I have a suspicion that although he would most likely disagree with me on many issues, he would not compare me to a child molester. And you make fun of Fox?

I will say that I support those who are in favor of locking child molesters up and throwing away the key with no eligibility for parole. I hope that is true for anyone reading this.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 1:15 pm
Ooooooops, how did child molesters enter into a debate about Cheney???

Saturday October 24, 2009, 3:08 pm
Paul, if you want a fair ,intelligent debate you are on the wrong website. The majority of care2 members will vilify you when you disagree with them.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 7:40 pm
lol david you make it to easy when you post...you say "cheney and rummy took down the towers too fool the american public into war" do you realize how insane that sounds? thank you again david for showing us how smart you are..

Saturday October 24, 2009, 9:35 pm
When thinking about how people can complain about Obama being a warmonger or chaney's dithering to mean kill our troops is convoluted logic. If you support the previous administration's actions in Afghanistan and Iraq, you are like a child molester and mass murderer, and have committed war crimes that make child molesting look like a walk in a park, so don't get upset at being compared. Fox and child molesters and bush war supporters go together because they have no value of life, honesty, or their own credibility, so to attack someone who says they don't is predictable. Have fun.

I made a metaphysical comparison about the mentality that allows child abuse. If you protest this too much, maybe some social workers should interview children you come in contact with, but that was not what I was talking about. Your response does indicate a sensitivity and irrationality to not follow criticism about war crimes and Fox that you defend. The consequences of what you support are other's opinion of your comments.

I never supported either war and people who did have no common sense or ability for critical thinking, as are fox's audience.

Yea Joe it just shows how smart they are: godz gayz and gunz = really stupid Americans.

Intelligent because they are clearly trying to associate and blame twisted points of view that they justified to support bush&co to go to war and justify breaking INTERNATIONAL LAW making the U.S. a War Crimes nation, but they don't get it... The people who mindlessly create these "Swiftboat" style of accusations are really using their twisted imaginations to form propaganda that is self justifying. They are like child molesters that justify sexual abuse of the child by claiming they liked it and came back for more... They abuse each other when they agree because what they are doing and have done are crimes against humanity and violate self respect and common sense.

Sunday October 25, 2009, 1:40 am
Casey,
Perhaps now is the time to ask you how much you know about Chez Guevara (whose picture you portray)?
Please give the group here some enlightenment on the man.

Sunday October 25, 2009, 3:06 am
Casey, I had a good friend of mine who suffered the type of abuse you compared me to. They never told me what they were going through until years later. My comment yesterday was written partially to give you time to think about it and to see if you had enough sense to apologize for the comparison and partially because it ticked me off. Instead, you recommend that social services and the police check me out?

Demonizing your perceived opponents is a tactic that indicates an inability to support your own opinions logically. Given the opinions that you have on this issue and the 9/11 conspiracy, that actually makes sense.
Metaphysics is cool, your comparison was not. My apologies for thinking that perhaps you could support your viewpoint intelligently.

NE L, I don't think it's everybody, many that have differing opinions at Care2 have had intelligent discussions about the issues, but there are a few that spoil the party. Shame, but I probably should be spending more time on other things anyway. My first exposure to Care2 was their email newsletter featuring Deepak Chopra. I incorrectly assumed that it represented the Care2 community. Given Care2 has over 12million members, it would not be possible to avoid members like those that you describe. Great concept, neat website, but I'm going back to the areas that brought me here in the first place. These types of discussions are not positive and I, for one, don't need the negativity.

Raymond S, couldn't agree with your question regarding Guevara more.

Sunday October 25, 2009, 1:39 pm
Che Guevera was a thug who shot dozens of people in cold blood while they were bound and on their knees. Most of them were guilty of the crime of disagreeing with or criticizing the Castro's revolution. I find it interesting that a man who calls out Cheney and Bush for their war crimes and talks about the evil of America openly embraces a murderous thug who was high in the power structure of a country that murdered and tortured thousands of people and regularly imprisoned and tortured those who spoke against it.

It seems that Casey doesn't have a problem with murderous thugs that agree with his politics...

Sunday October 25, 2009, 1:50 pm
Paul, you are not chaney, are you? You are not Fox news, are you. You defend them as if I was talking about you. I was talking about how they are like vampires, child molesters, and priests; WHY, you might ask. Or you could go on about how stupid your rant is about yourself and your own issues.. .

I do not want to continue this discussion with you. You have misunderstood, mis-characterized, and digressed the topic to obfuscate the original meaning, so your narcissism or ego is now the topic. Turn off yourself and tune into the world. I am not talking about you - directly, but if you find some commonality with my comments, that is not my fault, unless you think I know what you think o_O Ok? Not about you!

Chaney and Fox are like child molesters and vampires:

1) Dogma: authority associated speech or literature that carries no empirical or actual weight in reality, but instead exists to control others or persuade based on false information, untested assumptions, and myths. Carried to an extreme or defined as not true, these statements, such as god created the world in 7 days is a lie because it can not be true, if man took 3.5 million years to evolve from an upright bi-pedal hominid that stood 3" to 4" tall. Evidence Lucyand Australopithecus fossils. The evolution of man that took place as a final phase to our species today is based on 3.5 BILLION years of evolution from bacteria to who we are today. Evidence is bacterial fossils that date back to 3 billion years before present. So, god could not have created the world in 7 days and to believe this is to deny reality and what we know of the real world.

How does this make a child molester out of Fox and Cheney? They use dogma and lies to threaten people into fear and paranoid states that if YOU DON'T do as they say, bad things will happen. Child molesters do the same thing. They lie and promise their understanding of what is going on is true and they can be TRUSTED and Don't Question what they say. DON"T TALK about what they say critically. This is true for religion too. That is why many priests are pedophiles. They use the same authority to promise, convince with lies and dishonest concern, while generating fear and paranoia if one talks about things or thinks critically or questions what is going on.

Child Molester Chaney and Fox Qualities:
Further the victim does find some pleasure in what is going on. The guilt makes the victim justify the molester the liar, and the victim protects the molester liar by perpetuating the same lies and myths that are not true, to hide their dirty secret. This is common in sexual abuse, religious congregations, Fox and Rush Limpy audiences to those who supported bush&co. These people spew the BS they get from their false authorities and people in power to be part of the group or feel loved is the reason for the sexually abused. Feeling loved is also part of family, church, political, and business groups.

Breaking the pattern produces the black sheep. I am that sheep to those personalizing my words, as is Obama, no pun intended, to the people who support cheney, FOX, and bush&co, because reality is too difficult to accept when it contradicts the dogma, the lies, the twisted perverted view that makes things worse not better.

Che was the opposite of cheney! Che once said: Everything we do, the Cuban Revolution to the battles for freedom in Africa, to our struggles in South America are to stop Corrupt Capitalist from the United States. I paraphrase from memory. Cheney embodies and symbolizes the most corrupt capitalists in the world, only Mr. Potter in "Its a Wonderful World" would like Chaney and Mr. Potter is the president of FOX news Roger Eugene Ailes, between them, no more cunning and evil men ever walked the planet, unless you look at child molesters who are a lot like them, there are few types of really depraved and bad people you can compare these people to... ? Wana cookie to go to war against Iraq?" " I will give you WMD's and Nukes and He tried to kill my daddy, if you do it?"

"Hasta Siempre, Viva la Revolucion"

Sunday October 25, 2009, 2:06 pm
Thanks for the clarification. I'm done too.

If I misunderstood, mischaracterized, or digressed in a way that caused any of your past few posts, then I apologize to you and anybody who was offended by our discussion. I meant no offense to you or anyone else.

Sunday October 25, 2009, 3:52 pm
Steve G. :
"Cheney, bush and Regan were thugs who murdered millions of people in cold blood while they were bound and on their knees. Tortured thousands and traded Cocaine for Cash in the US to finance election fraud and the Iran - Iraq war. Most of them were guilty of the crime of disagreeing with or criticizing the Repub Corrupt Capitalist Corporate American Domination of the U.S. I find it interesting that a man who calls out Che and Castro for their war crimes and talks about the evil of Cuba openly embraces FOX = Repug Propaganda Machine and the Repug party high in the power structure of the U.S. government that murdered and tortured thousands of people and regularly imprisoned and tortured those who spoke against it.

It seems that Steve and other right wing ditto heads don't have a problem with murderous thugs that agree with his politics... "

I agree Steve you are a right wing ditto head and I bet proud of it, just like chaney and FOX want you to be...

Sunday October 25, 2009, 5:17 pm
NE L sounds so unhappy with Care2 I think she should find someplace where the less intelligent followers of FOX tell each other how wonderful they all are! Someplace where people who don't know how to think on their own are allowed to dribble!

Sunday October 25, 2009, 7:51 pm
Cheney is not on my top 10 list but Obama's inefficient make no commitment attitude is horrendous.All talk & no action. Our children need Troops Now!! stop the B.S. Obama enough already!!

Sunday October 25, 2009, 7:58 pm
"Our children need Troops Now!!"...Even though the Afghanis, THEIR children and the majority of American's don't agree?

NO MORE TROOPS! and BRING HOME THE TROOPS NOW!

Monday October 26, 2009, 12:44 am
Somehow Casey has omitted a LOT of the facts about Che, as I suspected he would, after all he would not want to publicly admit that he is a hypocrite!...
About Che:

"As a young medical student, Guevara traveled throughout Latin America and was transformed by the endemic poverty he witnessed.[5] His experiences and observations during these trips led him to conclude that the region's ingrained economic inequalities were an intrinsic result of monopoly capitalism, neocolonialism, and imperialism, with the only remedy being world revolution.[6] This belief prompted his involvement in Guatemala's social reforms under President Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán, whose eventual CIA-assisted overthrow solidified Guevara's radical ideology."

CIA assisted.....hmmm, remember that part as I will address it later,
Some more about Che:

"Following the Cuban Revolution, Guevara performed a number of key roles in the new government. These included reviewing the appeals and firing squads for those convicted as war criminals during the revolutionary tribunals,"
hmmm.... in charge of Firing squads....
and yet more,
"Such positions allowed him to play a central role in training the militia forces who repelled the Bay of Pigs Invasion[10] and bringing to Cuba the Soviet nuclear-armed ballistic missiles which precipitated the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis."
hmmmm..... Pro nuclear......
NEXT!!:
"Additionally, he was a prolific writer and diarist, composing a seminal manual on guerrilla warfare, along with a best-selling memoir about his youthful motorcycle journey across South America. Guevara left Cuba in 1965 to incite revolutions first unsuccessfully in Congo-Kinshasa and later in Bolivia, where he was captured by CIA-assisted Bolivian forces and executed."

Remember the first part CIA assisted? They eat their own!
So I see quite a similarity between Che and Cheney barring the fact that Che did not seek political power (he apparently did it for fun) their beliefs were quite the same, something else to think about,is the fact that he is a communist and his life involved a lot of blood and violence,

Monday October 26, 2009, 5:09 am
I believe whoever presents the greatest amount of evidence and facts. Thank god for C-Span, You tube and cell phone camcorders! I don't have to, nor do I, take what people say for granted I can listen to what people say in their own words when they speak to different audiences and compare it to their more recent quotes and interviews. It is often obvious who does and does not tell the truth. I have no fear of hearing from those who have different opinions and beliefs. Sometimes they win me over to their ways of thinking and when that happens I'm honored to know them and to say openly that they are right.

Bullies, cowards and liars try to shut people up and prevent them from getting their arguments heard I have contempt for them because they are oppressors and they obviously have no faith in a message that must be pushed rather than merely listened to and believed.

Monday October 26, 2009, 2:05 pm
Typical repug "attack the messenger" dirty politics, eh Raygunmond? Che is not cheney and the thread isn't about your spam BS

Your propaganda post is just like WMD's in Iraq and bush&co had nothing to do with the Saudi Bin Laden Family, or Osama was NOT CIA himself as is Al-Qaeda itself. The truth is not what you say at all. The CIA killed Che and you know it, just like the "freedom and justice" fighters in Chiapas Mx is killing indigenous people and pretending to be Mexican. Bolivian assisted means CIA puppets as in Pinochet in Chile, Somosa in Nicaragua, and the original CIA Mafia puppet Batista in Cuba. These so called leaders were nothing more than corrupt capitalist corporate puppets that Che fought all over the world. Everything you know is wrong.

Cheney is the coward and criminal to the world and Che is a hero of free thinking people everywhere.

If you have something more to say about cheney's criminal activities, that is this thread. Keep your spams to yourself Rayz.

Monday October 26, 2009, 8:05 pm
Casey, with all due respect to Communist heroes, you would not be talking so bravely if you happened to live under Communism of Russia, China or in states with their influence.

Viva Capitalism, down with Communism, Dictatorships and Totalitarism it brings. No more Red Khmeres. Viva life and business!

Monday October 26, 2009, 8:14 pm
Send a Green Star to Steve G. Well understood and epxressed.

I pity naive dreamers - they are first to be killed by the very same revolutions they themselves envoke.

Monday October 26, 2009, 8:35 pm
"Viva life and business!"...

Viva greed and money and to hell with the peasants?

Monday October 26, 2009, 9:56 pm
Compared to Kingdoms, democracy U.S. style is communism.

When we compare Corrupt Capitalism AIG, Haliburton, Exon to Blue Cross, and Insurance Corps they are a return to kingdoms with Very Rich and the rest are slaves working for hand to mouth peons.

Hasta Siempre! Viva la Revolucion!

The revolution is not one of guns or money and power, it is a revolution of stupidity. People start recognizing how the rich and powerful corrupt capitalists are criminals and lock them up and remove them from government. The followers of these corrupt pirates are equally duped by religion and it is only logical that a clarification of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution declares:

Separation of Church=Corporate and State.

Only retarded conservatives say "get a hair cut" or " go live in those commie countries" because it is so HICK. Sleep with your sister man?? You will have retarded kids like you if you do o_O !

The cultural Civil War in the U.S. is alive and real: The nimrods with more balls than brains who can't read Marx or Freud and live in a cartoon logic religious world rejecting any other critical thinking person or group that isn't like them.
The "Melting Pot" is cod for RACISM IN AMERICA and Archie Bunker mentalities thinking every one wants to be an American, when in reality the world sees conservative corporate following religious Americans as the biggest dumb asses on the planet.

Monday October 26, 2009, 10:34 pm
Time for you to get a life or go back to school Casey:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_usa_castro_juanita

Monday October 26, 2009, 11:46 pm
Absolutely laughable. America has a massive and powerful middle class when it bothers to wake up and pay attention. The "corrupt racists" of this country have elected an African American President. Two of the last three secretaries of state are African Americans and 3 of the last 4 secretaries of state have been women. Congress has representatives made up of dozens of religions, non-religions, ethnic backgrounds and sexual preferences. Our country is enormously diverse and tolerant. We should take a little pride in that..

How diverse are the power structures of China, Russia, North Korea, Cuba or the old Soviet Union? They were and are all ruled by ethnic majority men! Castro has ruled Cuba as an absolute Dictator for more than 50 years. As his his health fails he hands the reigns of power to his brother! Gosh that doesn't sound corrupt at all... If you wish to do battle in the arena of ideas you might want to arm yourself first. :)

Tuesday October 27, 2009, 5:03 am
To all of the people that Casey may have offended on this AND on other threads with his name calling and rude comments (which he obviously hasn't out grown), you should not take his attacks personal as he seems to be in denial of true facts and a hypocrite to himself.
While Casey is screaming for MORE government and a one world government, the "Hero" that he idolizes; Che, was made into a hero in the early 60's for being ANTI government! So anti government in fact that he blatantly TURNED DOWN an offer from Fidel Castro to be 2nd in command in Cuba's new Government under Castro.
So in theory Casey worships a false god, how can anyone take him seriously?

Tuesday October 27, 2009, 10:19 am
As usual, excellent comments, Casey!

Cheney is about ready to release his new book. He could care less about America's safety or anyone else but getting his face in the media to get ready to promote his book. It's foolish to listen to a dangerous fool.

Tuesday October 27, 2009, 5:43 pm
I love the Care blogs! There is a great diversity of opinions and lots of intelligent informed people and as for those that are less so they are still entertaining and provocative even if they are a bit scary. Peace and well being to you all.

Tuesday October 27, 2009, 5:53 pm
You are exactly right Raymond. Anyone who worships Che should do some serious soul searching.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 2:19 pm
To the world who hates Americans because of right wingnutz that believe they are sooo righteous I call you names and emphasize with my world community brothers and sisters. If you don't like the sheeple name or Stupid Americans, or Nimrodz for Reganomics, I could go on, change. Change into a respectable human being, but until then expect critical thinking real people who don't believe in you or your $$ godz or liars in chief or scum bags who call themselves repugs = repugnant people to continue.

If you stand in your own fecal material and call it perfume, people will say you stink. Conservative religiously righteous repugs stand in their own dogma shinola or fecal material and really stink.

Who in the world or what country agrees with bush&co or religious right wing crazies? NOT ONE!

Thursday October 29, 2009, 7:37 am
Cheney is an evil idiot and does not deserve ANY attention from us!!!

Thursday October 29, 2009, 4:41 pm
Funny people on Care2 believe in freedom of speech... Of course only if you are for Obama and are not a christian...

Obama may not be a draft dodger... but if you will do your research... you will see he dodged his responsibility and a so called senator... hardly voted for anything and was hardly even there... He is well known as a "community organizer"... that is about all... As far as his receive the Nobel Peace Prize... They just as well given it to "Homer Simpson"...