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Understanding the Right's Obamacare Obsession

US Politics & Gov't  (tags: republicans, Tea Party, Obamacare, obstructionist, government, politics, healthcare, propaganda, lies, dishonesty, congress, americans, corruption )

- 1751 days ago -
The hard-right is taking a scorched-earth approach, obstructing the law's implementation by any means necessary and spinning the hiccups and glitches that are inevitable with any complex new system as an unmitigated disaster.

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JL A (281)
Tuesday September 3, 2013, 12:42 pm
The real irony is that it embodies the proposal created by the right's think tank The Heritage Foundation so it should be exactly what they all still support like when THF put it out there and the GOP kept introducing it in Congress and finally Romney did it in his state as governor.

Carrie B (306)
Tuesday September 3, 2013, 12:48 pm
But Romney wasn't a black Democrat president.

Sheila D (194)
Tuesday September 3, 2013, 8:34 pm
Of course, the only reason the GOPTP are against the new healthcare is because they didn't get credit for it.

Susanne R (235)
Wednesday September 4, 2013, 12:14 am
BINGO, Carrie!

Jason R (67)
Wednesday September 4, 2013, 9:44 am
Republican obstruction is the reason we didn't get single payer. If we can boot the fascists out, we can finish it.

John, tell us how, In your case, costs have gone up substantially. How much?

Jason R (67)
Wednesday September 4, 2013, 11:43 am

Diane O (194)
Wednesday September 4, 2013, 3:16 pm
Who is going to pay for single payer, Jason? You? With millions of illegals pouring over our borders are you ready to pay out hundreds of dollars per month so that they can have "free" healthcare?

Obamacare premiums have more than tripled since the law was passed. I suggest you do a bit of research. 40,000 AFL CIO longshoremen have pulled out of Obamacare. Don't you even wonder why?

Diane O (194)
Wednesday September 4, 2013, 3:26 pm
We, as Americans, have a right to judge a president when he shows a lack of leadership skills, throws together a 3,000 page healthcare bill that is failing every single day, a president who took $860 billion of the taxpayer dollars and gambled most of it on green companies which have all gone bankrupt, tampered with the natural recovery of the housing market three or more times prolonging the recovery, who turned his head away from Fast and Furious and Benghazi....and now dithers and waffles over Syria and blames the UN for the "red line" comment never EVER blaming himself for anything.

Yes, I would say the American people want to see Obama out of our White House. He looks and acts like a teenager who will not and cannot accept criticism for his ignorance.

Now Bill Clinton is out re-selling Obamacare but it will not work. Small colleges are cutting faculty and businesses, large and small, are reducing full time employees to part time status. You ALL know this is going on but you keep your ears filled with sand. Are you suggesting that this is the fault of the republicans? I don't think so. The republicans knew Obamacare was a train wreck. Large insurance companies are pulling out of the exchanges. Is that the fault of the republicans? I don't think so.

Single payer won't work in our country because our country is built on capitalism where 53% of Americans work for small businesses. We will never be a socialist country for that very reason because to do that would reduce productivity and massive loss of jobs and you actually believe that single payer can survive when there are no longer any rich people to pay for it for the masses including the millions of illegals who will be drinking that milk, too?

Liberals can think but it doesn't appear that they can project long term results. We have hundreds and hundreds of baby boomers who have moved out of our country for retirement. They know what a train wreck looks like and they are taking their hard earned investments and their social security checks to places like Ecuador, Costa Rica, Belize, get the picture. They know the liberals will eventually pass a law that will take their investments from them and REDISTRIBUTE THEM among the slackards in our country...people who didn't want to work and never saved a dime of their own money.


Diane O (194)
Wednesday September 4, 2013, 3:30 pm
What we have learned about Obama is that he never ever will take full responsibility for anything that has failed. He's a sick puppy. I'll be glad when he is out of Washington DC in 2016 and Hillary doesn't stand a chance in hell of winning. Ahhh....back to the salad days of republican control, plenty of jobs, housing market healthy and perking along, people making and saving money, and a STRONG FOREIGN AFFAIRS PRESENCE. Assad was right...."Obama IS weak." He is weak because he isn't smart.

Jason R (67)
Thursday September 5, 2013, 11:31 am

"With millions of illegals pouring over our borders"

Illegal Mexican immigrant numbers down as more migrate back ... * 8301-201_162-57419334/ illegal-mexican-immigrant-numbers-down-as-more-migrate-back-to-mexico /

How really out of touch are you, Diane? You spend all that time writing all that dump it on people that know it. What's the point? Isn't there some charity work you could spend your time on?

Diane O (194)
Thursday September 5, 2013, 11:51 am
Jason, you make it so easy to be me....

Information on our illegal immigration numbers
Our illegal immigration numbers are based on an estimated twenty million illegal aliens having been present in our nation as of January 1, 2004.

In a letter dated February 2004, no less an authority than Arizona Senator John McCain recognized that Border Patrol apprehension figures demonstrated that "almost four million people crossed our borders illegally 2002" (read McCain's letter) – experts on the subject agree that illegal crossings have only increased since then.

The Tucson sector Border Patrol union local 2544 on the number of illegal aliens in our nation: "There are currently 15 to 20 million illegal aliens in this country by many estimates, but the real numbers could be much higher and the numbers increase every day because our borders are not secure (no matter what the politicians tell you - don't believe them for a second)". (Visit the local's website).

In agreement with Senator McCain, we believe that an increase of 10,000 total additional illegal aliens added to the United States population each day.

This reflects figures that include illegal aliens successfully entering our nation combined with those who overstay their visas.

We are of the educated opinion that we are conservatively low in our estimation.

In a one hour documentary, Immigrant Nation - Divided Country originally aired in October 2004, CNN estimated that "7 – 20 million" people were "living in this country illegally".

CNN's Lou Dobbs, a highly educated authority on the illegal immigration crisis in our nation regularly uses a figure of "20 million" when discussing the number of illegal aliens on his broadcast "Lou Dobbs Tonight" (Monday - Friday 6 pm & 11 pm eastern time, CNN, see March 2, 2005 transcript).

In April 2003, Georgia state Senator - and national board member of MALDEF - Sam Zamarripa told the Georgia state senate that there were 20 million illegals in the U.S. at the time.

We are aware that others offer lower estimates.

In a September 2004 report on our un-secure borders Who Left the Door Open?, Time magazine used an estimation of 15 million illegals present in the U.S. using reasoning similar to ours – but with much more optimistic U.S. Border Patrol apprehension rates.

President George W. Bush and then Secretary of Homeland Security, Tom Ridge, used a figure of "8-12 million" illegal aliens in December 2003.

Other reports - including one recently released by the Pew Hispanic Center and figures used by the Center for Immigration Studies quoting 10 - 11 million illegal aliens present in the U.S. - rely heavily on U.S. Census data that many, we at TAR included, believe to be incomplete, inaccurate and artificially low.

An independent study of the underground economy released in January 2005 by the Wall Street financial firm Bear Stearns, The Underground Labor Force is Rising to the Surface, produced estimates of 18-20 million illegal aliens present in the United States.

We stand by our stated estimation.

Please see below for a more detailed analysis and explanation.


Analysis and explanation
This section first developed and posted in August, 2004 and was
was updated in February 2005, July, 2005 and February, 2007. The
detailed analysis in this section was completed in September, 2004
by Fred Elbel and was published in the Fall, 2005 Social Contract.

The following analysis is based upon the article titled Could There Be Twenty Million Illegals In The U.S.?", by D.A. King, THE AMERICAN RESISTANCE FOUNDATION, published on VDARE, August 7, 2004.20

The purpose of this analysis is to present illegal immigration numbers that are more realistic than numbers being presented by the federal government – the very entity responsible for the tidal wave of illegal aliens entering our nation.

This analysis demonstrates that the December, 2003 Department of Homeland Security estimates of 8-12 million illegal aliens in the United States and 700,000 new illegals entering and staying per year represent significant undercounts.

This analysis shows that it is reasonable to state that more than 20 million illegal aliens reside in the United States and approximately 10,000 illegal aliens enter the United States every day, or, as Arizona Senator John McCain reports – almost four million per year.

This analysis also demonstrates that the proposed White House "guest worker" amnesty proposal of January, 2004 resulted in at least a 25% increase in the number of illegal aliens entering into the United States.

The precise number of illegals entering the United States and the exact rate at which they cross our borders is unknown. Official government estimates are difficult to obtain and are routinely sanitized.

The estimate of the number of illegals who enter depends on Border Patrol apprehension rates and estimates of the number that "got away". The following sections present several approaches to estimating the number of illegals and the impact of amnesty proposals on illegal immigration numbers.


How many illegal aliens are there in the U.S.?
Step 1: Estimate the gross numbers of illegals entering the U.S.
Step 2: Factor in repeat apprehensions of the same individuals
Step 3: Factor "short term" stays and legalization from the overall estimate
Step 4: Estimate the total number of illegal aliens in the U.S.
Considerations regarding illegal immigration numbers
Mexico's fertility and growth rate
Proportion of illegals from countries other than Mexico
Visa overstays contribute to illegal alien numbers
Impact of amnesty proposals on illegal immigration numbers
1. How many illegal aliens are there in the U.S.?
The Department of Homeland Security estimated in December, 2003, that 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens resided in the United States and 700,000 new illegals enter and stay each year. These official estimates are somewhat suspect and may represent significant undercounts, as they are produced by the very entity responsible for the tidal wave of illegal aliens entering our nation nation - the United States Government. An alternative methodology is used here to estimate a range of numbers of illegals that is likely more realistic.

The precise number of illegals entering the United States and the exact rate at which they cross our borders are unknown. Official government numbers are often hard to come by and are routinely sanitized.7, 12 In this analysis, the estimate of the number of illegals in the U.S. is derived from U.S. Border Patrol apprehension rates and estimates of the number that "get away" - those that evade apprehension. This "get away" number is not reliably known, but can be estimated, therefore the methodology based upon this factor will produce a range of results as opposed to a single projection.

This methodology consists of the following steps:

Estimate the gross number of illegals entering the U.S., as well as the number of those that evade apprehension by the Border Patrol. A "get away" ratio is applied to the numbers of illegals entering, resulting in a gross estimate of illegals entering and evading apprehension.

Factor in repeat apprehensions of the same individuals and legalizations out of the overall estimate. Many illegal aliens who are apprehended and are returned home try to enter the U.S. again and are subsequently apprehended. Others are legalized and are allowed to stay in the U.S.

Factor "short term stays" out of the overall estimate. Some illegal aliens voluntarily return home in less than year.

Estimate the total number of illegal aliens living in the United States, based upon the estimate of illegals entering and evading apprehension each year.
Step 1: Estimate the gross numbers of illegals entering the U.S.
Census figures show that 90 percent of illegal immigration comes from Latin America, with 70 percent of the total from Mexico.26 The last decade has witnessed a tidal wave of illegal Mexican immigration. The Center for Immigration Studies noted:

"Indeed, the last decade saw an unprecedented number of Mexicans cross the U.S. border. Between 1990 and 2000, their number doubled - from 4.2 million to 9.2 million, or 30 percent of the entire foreign-born population in the United States. Within this number, unauthorized Mexicans grew by more than 100 percent - from 2 million to 4.8 million, or 69 percent of all illegal aliens in the United States."

Though the Mexican government should be embarrassed that 10 percent of its people have fled to the U.S. from Mexico, President Vicente Fox's administration has embraced this reality. In fact, increasing the number of Mexicans working illegally in the United States is among Mexico's highest foreign policy objectives.30

U.S. Government estimates of illegal aliens residing in the United States have been uniformly low.18 On December 9, 2003, Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge stated that there were 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens in the United States.1 The corrected U.S. Census Bureau estimate for 2003 was 8 million2; other Census data extrapolated to more like 10 million, and it recently has been questioned whether the actual number is much higher.20 Referring to a 2001 Northeastern University study stating that there were 11 million illegal aliens in the United States as opposed to U.S. Government estimates of 6 million,18 the Federation for American Immigration Reform stated:

"It is inconceivable that official estimates could be that far off the mark unless someone was deliberately trying to mislead the American public."28

Senator John McCain (R-AZ) stated in February, 2004, that according to U.S. Border Patrol apprehension statistics, almost 4 million illegal aliens entered the U.S. illegally in 2002.5 (More than half of all illegal immigration into the U.S. comes through Arizona).

Of these 4 million, some were apprehended and removed, while most of them evaded apprehension and succeeded in reaching their interior destinations. How many were apprehended? The answer to this question clearly affects the number of illegals that are believed to reside within the United States. The Border Patrol provides numbers of apprehensions,6 but generally declines to answer specific questions regarding apprehension rates. However, Arizona's representative Jim Kolbe has testified to Senator McCain in a Congressional hearing on June 17, 2004, that the Border Patrol "figure about one out of four or five are apprehended".9 Michael Nicley, Chief, Tucson Sector, U.S. Border Patrol, stated in a private telephone conversation in 2004 that, "It's more like seven."

This author has visited the Arizona and has personally observed the situation on the ground. Border Patrol agents who were brave enough to share their own insights have stated that in their opinion, the Border Patrol is not apprehending anywhere close to one out of three or four illegal crossers, and that significantly larger numbers evade apprehension.7, 12, 14

In November, 2006 the U.S. House Committee on Homeland Security reported that federal law enforcement estimates 10 percent to 30 percent of illegal aliens are actually apprehended and 10 percent to 20 percent of drugs are seized. Therefore, in 2005, as many as 4 to 10 million illegal aliens crossed into the United States.37

Indeed, in July of 2005, the U.S. Border Patrol Local 2544 stated on their website that "There are currently 15 to 20 million illegal aliens in this country by many estimates, but the real numbers could be much higher and the numbers increase every day because our borders are not secure..."36

Using Senator McCain's number of 4 million entering illegally in 20025 and a generous official apprehension rate of one out of four means that 3 million were not apprehended and therefore remained in the U.S.

It also should be noted that this figure does not include the millions who the Government Accountability Office (GAO, formerly called the Government Accounting Office) tell us enter legally on temporary visas and continue to stay after their visas expire.13

Because the U.S. government routinely sanitizes statistics,7, 12 the number of illegal entries into the United States is almost certainly higher than official numbers. In fact, Forbes Magazine estimates that only four percent of illegal aliens crossing in Texas are apprehended and prosecuted.15

Detailed approaches to yearly calculations
Senator John McCain stated in February of 2004 that almost 4 million illegal aliens crossed our borders illegally in 2002.5 If one out of four were apprehended, that would mean in the year 2002, 3 million illegals entered and evaded apprehension (4 million x 3/4).

Under Secretary for Border and Transportation Security, Asa Hutchinson, stated in June, 2004, that arrests of illegal aliens in Arizona had increased to 3,000 daily from an average of about 2,000 a day since March.11 The increase in apprehensions can be attributed in part to additional Border Patrol agents, "but more than half of the promised U.S. Border Patrol agents have not arrived.11 Thus, it is highly likely that the numbers of illegal aliens entering the U.S. through Arizona had commensurately increased.

Below are several approaches used to converge on the number of illegals entering on a yearly basis:

Official Border Patrol statistics stated that in 2001 there were 1,676,438 total U.S. border apprehensions.6 If one out of four were apprehended as the Border Patrol officially states, that would mean that in the year 2001, 5 million illegals entered and evaded apprehension (1,676,438 x 3). Table I summarizes illegal entries at various apprehension rates.

Official Border Patrol statistics stated that in 2002 there were 955,310 total U.S. border apprehensions6 (this is significantly lower than apprehensions in 2000 and 2001). With a one out of four apprehension rate, then in the year 2002, 2.9 million illegals would have entered and evaded apprehension (955,310 x 3).

Official Border Patrol statistics stated that there were 888,480 total U.S. border apprehensions from January 1, 2004 to June 30, 2004.6 If one out of four were apprehended, then in the year 2004, 2.7 million illegals entered and evaded apprehension in that six month period (888,480 x 3). Assuming that a similar number of illegals enter in each six month period, this works out to 5.3 million per year. Table I summarizes calculations used by these three approaches.
Table I summarizes calculations used by these three approaches:

More here:

Even if the numbersare "off" by 25% "thousands of illegals" pour into our country. Keep believing your biased left wing news sources, Jason. They make you an excellent target for me to correct.


Jason R (67)
Thursday September 5, 2013, 12:09 pm

2002-2003-2004? Before the bush/mabus world depression. Watch the video.

Avril Lomas (0)
Thursday September 5, 2013, 12:48 pm

Of course the REpugs are going after the ACA. they are scared that it might be a success, .and they will do anything

Robert K (31)
Thursday September 5, 2013, 1:24 pm
Diane, the queen of ignorance weighs in again with abject stupidity.

Every country in the world with single payer has costs about half of ours. I propose we take away the retired military officer's teat sucking healthcare and make them pay for private insurance. But let the enlisted personnel keep theirs.

Always easy to say I've got mine, but screw you, eh Diane.

You only detract, never enhance the conversation, and if you had a lick of decency you would go away and frequent only right wing sites where lying is de rigueur. You'd be right at home with your ignorance there.

Robert K (31)
Thursday September 5, 2013, 1:26 pm
John G, being hard to understand isn't a bad thing when dealing with such a complex issue. See also the Patriot act or almost every other law passed in the last 200 years.

Robert K (31)
Thursday September 5, 2013, 1:28 pm
Also Diane, premiums in NY have been cut in half and in CA by even more. Getting your "facts" from wingnut sites is moronic.

Arielle S (313)
Thursday September 5, 2013, 1:31 pm
So all the world's ills can be blamed on our black president and the illegal aliens.... who knew? I read the propaganda put out by Reince Priebus or whatever his dumb name is and it is just more of the same lies, manipulated to look like truth. Tired of it all. Tired of governors and insurance commissioners who brag about obstructing Obamacare and making it as difficult as possible for people - tired of Congress trying over and over to repeal Obamacare - tired of the same old words carefully aligned to make a good thing look bad. Every other industrialized nation has health insurance - what they don't have is the constant advertisement of expensive drugs on tv and in magazines. What they don't have is the mega drug companies charging twice as much as other countries for the same pill. What they don't have is people who refuse to accept a change as possibly being a good thing.
(Sorry I can't send you another star yet, Robert....)

Jason R (67)
Thursday September 5, 2013, 1:44 pm
Diane, did you think, that 8 page C&P will "keep them busy"?

How on earth did you learn to feed yourself?

Liberals have been there, done that, told YOU. We watch 5 minutes of fox and we know what you think. To assume that we are going to read for 15-20 minutes, the garbage we know it is, tells me, you people haven't evolved in this division war. You're the same people you were 15 years ago. Spoon fed, left behinds.

Arielle S (313)
Thursday September 5, 2013, 1:56 pm
Health care in 214 words!

There’s a lot to the health care law. But it’s based on a few simple principles, which we’ve described below in a mere 214 words. Follow the link for more:

If you have health coverage you like, you can keep it. Children under 26 can stay on a parent’s health insurance plan.

If you don’t have coverage, you can use the new Health Insurance Marketplace to buy a private insurance plan.

Pre-existing conditions are covered. So are many preventive services and 10 essential health benefits.

Depending on your family size and income, you may get lower costs on monthly premiums and out-of-pocket costs.

You may also qualify for free or low-cost coverage from Medicaid or the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP). Many states are expanding Medicaid to cover more people in 2014.

If you don’t have coverage in 2014 you’ll have to pay a fee. In 2014 it’s $95 per adult ($47.50 per child) or 1% of income, whichever is higher. The family max is $285.

If you have coverage and want to explore Marketplace plans, you can. But if you have an offer of insurance from an employer, you may not be able to get lower costs on Marketplace insurance based on your income. It depends on whether the insurance you’re offered is considered affordable and meets minimum standards.

Medicare isn’t part of the Marketplace. If you have Medicare, keep it.

Marketplace open enrollment starts October 1, 2013. It closes March 31, 2014.

Jason R (67)
Thursday September 5, 2013, 4:06 pm
This just in! Obamacare to cost less than budget committee thought.

Jason R (67)
Friday September 6, 2013, 9:33 am
Well, John. I see your lying colors.

Diane O (194)
Friday September 6, 2013, 1:55 pm
Jason, if you don't calm down I swear to God I'm sending you a Friend Request.....

Jason R (67)
Saturday September 7, 2013, 1:08 pm
Quit being ignorant, then.

Jason R (67)
Saturday September 7, 2013, 1:50 pm
Should read...quit being a social conservative, then.

Diane O (194)
Sunday September 8, 2013, 4:02 am
The one constant about you, Jason, is that you stay angry and fired up. You feel like you need to change my mind to think like you to force a "win" for yourself.

If I may suggest, you might want to check "your anger" somewhere else before you venture out here on C2NN. Anger never changes anyone's mind. Consider just sharing your personal opinions. That's why we should be here on a public forum to share our opinions. You keep chucking spears at everyone who has a different opinion from yours. Barely less than 50% of Americans didn't vote for this clown.

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