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Religion Doesn't Require Bigotry, And Don't Let Anyone Claim Otherwise


Society & Culture  (tags: religion, bigotry, society, culture, ethics, rights, freedoms, dishonesty, humans, abuse )

Carrie
- 292 days ago - rawstory.com
Conservatives want to drag the debate over to the topic of what's in their hearts instead of what's in their actions, because they know that no matter how hateful and bigoted they may be on the inside, as long as they carefully parse their words to...



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Comments

Sue Matheson (76)
Friday March 7, 2014, 1:56 pm
noted
 

Nancy M. (202)
Friday March 7, 2014, 2:03 pm
United Evangelical Bigots?
 

Debbie S. (32)
Friday March 7, 2014, 4:40 pm
noted
 

Laurie H. (730)
Friday March 7, 2014, 11:07 pm
Thanks for this share Carrie!!~~
 

daryl bishop (314)
Saturday March 8, 2014, 9:10 am
people should learn to accet people for who and what they are. i find az unbelieveable for wanting to ban gays from resteraunts.
 

Lona Goudswaard (77)
Saturday March 8, 2014, 9:48 am
Nice article with a lot of solid arguments by Amanda Marcotte on why the religious-bigotry-isn’t-bigotry argument is in fact a load of hypocritical BS. And as she put it that bigots "[are] exploiting the widespread but false belief that religion is received wisdom and therefore inflexible." Very good point indeed.
 

Joanne Dixon (40)
Saturday March 8, 2014, 1:12 pm
The title says it all, doesn't it?
Phisher flagged.
 

Birgit W. (152)
Saturday March 8, 2014, 2:13 pm
To all the religious leaders on our planet: Stop brainwashing your people.
 

Charlie Rush (67)
Saturday March 8, 2014, 5:42 pm
I just love when so-called religious people, twist and turn a passage from some book, into a fact of life.
 

pam w. (191)
Saturday March 8, 2014, 9:16 pm
I flagged the spam and laughed out loud at the bald hypocrisy of this statement.

"REQUIRE?" Maybe no...."ENCOURAGE"...THAT's more like it!
 

Lloyd H. (46)
Saturday March 8, 2014, 10:57 pm
The Word Salad with a healthy covering of Religious Freedom Dressing still looks, smells and tastes like a greasy old and cold 'We are the Victims' sandwich. Barf Bag Please! Interesting is it not that the same Religious clap-trap was used nearly word for word to defend Slavery, education for Women, Voting Rights for Black and Women and even 'white' immigrants' and students not living at home. Smells like Theocracy to me!
 

Alan Lambert (97)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 12:52 am
I wonder, though, if bigotry doesn't require religious belief of some variety

SPAM reported
 

Panchali Yapa (19)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 4:32 am
Thank you
 

Julie W. (22)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 4:34 am
I wonder if these people REALLY believe what they are saying? Some of them probably do - human beings are very good at denial and self-delusion.
 

Beth S. (334)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 6:37 am
Won't do gay weddings -- or killing them because they're not Muslim..... Which is more bigoted?

Do they do gay weddings in Muslim countries after they're finished taking the gays down from the nooses from which they've been hanged?

Bassam Tibi writes--short and moot

> At its core, Islam is a religious mission to all humanity. Muslims are religiously obliged to disseminate the Islamic faith throughout the world. ‘We have sent you forth to all mankind’ (Q. 34:28). If non-Muslims submit to conversion or subjugation, this call (da’wa) can be pursued peacefully. If they do not, Muslims are obliged to wage war against them. In Islam, peace requires that non-Muslims submit to the call of Islam, either by converting or by accepting the status of a religious minority (dhimmi) and paying the imposed poll tax, jizya. World peace, the final stage of the da’wa, is reached only with the conversion or submission of all mankind to Islam… Muslims believe that expansion through war is not aggression but a fulfillment of the Qur’anic command to spread Islam as a way to peace. The resort to force to disseminate Islam is not war (harb), a word that is used only to describe the use of force by non-Muslims. Islamic wars are not hurub (the plural of harb) but rather futuhat, acts of ‘opening’ the world to Islam and expressing Islamic jihad. Relations between dar al-Islam, the home of peace, and dar al-harb, the world of unbelievers, nevertheless take place in a state of war, according to the Qur’an and to the authoritative commentaries of Islamic jurists. Unbelievers who stand in the way, creating obstacles for the da’wa, are blamed for this state of war, for the da’wa can be pursued peacefully if others submit to it. In other words, those who resist Islam cause wars and are responsible for them. Only when Muslim power is weak is ‘temporary truce’ (hudna) allowed (Islamic jurists differ on the definition of ‘temporary’).”
> (Source: Tibi, Bassam. (1996). “War and Peace in Islam”, in Terry Nardin (ed.), The Ethics of War and Peace: Religious and Secular Perspectives, p. 129-131. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press).
>
> This policy is again confirmed in the Shafi’i Sunni manual “Reliance of the Traveler,” which is still officially endorsed by Sunni Islam’s most respected authority in the world, the Al-Azhar University in Cairo. The manual states that jihad is “a communal obligation” to make “war against non-Muslims.” It also states that “the caliph makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians… until they become Muslim or else pay the non-Muslim poll tax…” Moreover, “The caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim.” If there is no caliph, jihad must still be carried out.
 

Lloyd H. (46)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 8:37 am
Beth S., while I know that your belief and faith will preclude any acceptance of the concept that Proselytizing is just as fundamental to Christianity and heaven forbid that you would acknowledge the historical fact that Christians implemented 'conversion by the sword' centuries before the birth of Mohammed, it still needs to be recognized as fact. The pre-Islamic history of Christianity is a long, long list of the mass murder of non-believers, heretics, sinners and Jews. And guess what not much has changed except the methods and scale. You might want to look at the effects and methods of Christian missionaries through out history, particularly the Age of Discovery and Colonial Imperialism and that ignores the intentional extermination of heretic/schism Christians sects from Gnostics, Coptic Christians, Pauline Christians, Albigensians, et alia. Then one must not forget the export of violent often homicidal Christian fundamentalism from the USA to Africa, Russia, Eastern Europe, Asia etc.. And I am must say that I find, other than being relatively non-violent, any significant ethical difference between the old 'conversion by the sword' and the current conversion by divesting LGBT, Women, the poor, the old, et alia of their civil and human rights via US State laws banning Equal Rights to marriage, employment, housing, contraception, abortion etc.. And I can not neglect to mention the forced Proselyting of children via curricula that re-wright history, teach Creationism/ID, require Prayer or allow the intentional demeaning of any individuals chosen religion. And that is without going into the cesspool of the abuse of Religious Freedom in the US Military.
 

Patricia Martinez (13)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 9:23 am

Lloyd:

You have to go back so far to make an argument.

The problem is that Islam is incomparably worse than Christianity IN TODAY'S world by almost any measure.
 

Shil O. (0)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 9:23 am
On the button Beth-- Bassam Tibi is an Islamic scholar and knows what he is talking about
and you are quite right on the bigotry score---its only bigotry if you deny them a service due to your beliefs but its ok to hang them torture them throw them off high buildings or whatever which amazingly the lgbt seem to accept as an "established custom and practice"

@ Lloyd H
What a load of piffle
lets look at Christian beliefs vs islamic beliefs because it seems you are getting mixed up probably due to ignorance on both subjects

Muhammad said Allah hates those who don’t accept Islam. (Qur’an 30:4, 3:32, 22:38’0
Jesus said God loves everyone. (John 3:16)

Muhammad said “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger ofAllah.” (Muslim 1:33)
Jesus said “He who lives by the sword will die by the sword” (Matthew 26:52)

Muhammad stoned women for adultery. (Sahih Muslim 4206)
Jesus said “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” (John 8:7)

Muhammad permitted stealing from unbelievers (Bukhan 44:668, Ibn Ishaq 764)
Jesus said “Thou shalt not steal” (Matthew 19:18)

Muhammad permitted lying (Sahih Muslim 6303, Bukhari 49:857)
Jesus said “Thou shalt not bear false witness.” (Matthew 19:18)

Muhammad owned and traded slaves (Sahih Muslim 3901)
Jesus neither owned nor traded slaves.

Muhammad murdered those who insulted him. (Bukhari 56:369, 4:241)
Jesus preached forgiveness.

Muhammad said “If then anyone transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him.” (Qur’an 2:194)
Jesus said “If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” (Matthew 5:39)

Muhammad said “Jihad in the way of Allah elevates one’s position in Paradise by a hundred fold.” (Muslim 4645)
Jesus said “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God.” (Matthew 5:9)

Muhammad married 13 wives and kept sex slaves. (Bukhari 5:268, Qur’an 33:50)
Jesus was celibate.

Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old child. (Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236)
Jesus did not have sex with children.

Muhammad ordered the murder of women. (Ibn Ishaq 819, 995)
Jesus never harmed a woman.

Muhammad said “O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.” (Qur’an 3:110)
Jesus said “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth.” (Matthew 5:5)

Muhammad ordered 65 military campaigns and raids in his last 10 years. (Ibn Ishaq)
Jesus ordered no military campaigns, nor offered any approval of war or violence.

Muhammad killed captives taken in battle. (Ibn Ishaq 451)
Jesus never took captives; never killed anyone.

Muhammad encouraged his men to rape enslaved women. (Abu Dawud 2150, Qur’an 4:24)
Jesus never encouraged rape; never enslaved women.

Muhammad was never tortured, but tortured others. (Muslim 4131, Ibn Ishaq 436, 595, 734, 764)
Jesus suffered torture, but never tortured anyone.

Muhammad said “And fight them until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah.” (Qur’an 8:39)
Jesus said “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” (Matthew 5:44)

Muhammad ordered a slave to build the very pulpit from which he preached Islam. (Bukhari 47:743)
Jesus washed his disciples feet. (John 13:5)

Muhammad demanded the protection of armed bodyguards, even in a house of worship. (Qur’an 4:102)
Jesus chastised anyone attempting to defend him with force. (John 18:10-12)

Muhammad advocated crucifying others. (Qur’an 5:33, Muslim 16:4131)
Jesus was crucified himself.

According to his followers, Muhammad had others give their lives for him. (Sahih Muslim 4413)
According to his followers, Jesus gave his life for others. (John 18:11 and elsewhere)


 

Rhonda B. (113)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 11:18 am
I flagged Zelda for span! Thank you.
 

Shanti S. (0)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 11:20 am
Thank you.
 

Carol Dreeszen (362)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 11:59 am
Beth, Patricia and Shil...right on!!! Some people just continue to try and make reason out of something that happened centuries ago!! They will never get it!!
 

GGmaSheila D. (169)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 12:43 pm
Shil - you seem to have spent alot of time quoting the New Testament, nothing from the Old Testament and God's punishments. You say Christianity is nothing like Islam...Make sure of your facts, and bring everything up to date, to the now. Find current quotes from Christian notables of today...the ones who practice what they preach.

Think about all the religious extremists in America in 2014. Like the ones who advocate strict laws against LGBT...the world over. The ones who have gone to foreign countries to spew their hatred of anyone with sexual preferences different than their own...all in the name of God and Jesus. The ones that right now are applauding the Ugandan laws for death to LGBT, applauding Russia's crackdown on LGBT. These are "Good Christians" all. Are these your beliefs?

Of course, you can't gloss over the missionaries preaching of Jesus and God as they give aid. Converting people from their own beliefs, undermining ancient religious beliefs and practices to the point that Third World people are confused and scared. You take their whole belief system and trash it. Christians have been doing that for centuries.

Christianity is not the only religious system in the world. Christians today still go in with a set program, not caring to learn, to understand what people believe in, why they believe what they do. Instead you say they will burn in Hell if they don't convert. This is happening Today, right Now, somewhere in the Third World.

It always helps to know the history so the same mistakes aren't made. This is especially important in religion. Lloyd was right, he might have brought what he said into current practices, showing that only the methods have changed...not the underlying messages, and bigotry.
Currently can't give Lloyd a star, even though, in my opinion, he deserves it.
 

Carrie B. (318)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 1:09 pm
And of course the haters of Islam have to make their voices heard. How nice of you to come and prove the validity of this article. Your hatred and bigotry is quite distasteful.
 

Madhu Pillai (22)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 1:59 pm
Noted.
 

Patricia Martinez (13)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 2:24 pm

It is a little ironic that you REALLY don't like Christians who won't marry gay people.

But you'll never say a WORD against Islamic acts of terror, hatred, bigotry, hatred, racism.

Only against Christians when their religious values don't agree with yours.

Does that say that you are in favor of Islamic acts of terror, hanging gays and so on?

Your bigotry against Christianity is quite on display.
 

GGmaSheila D. (169)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 4:01 pm
Patricia, and the others -

I am not a hater of Islam, or of Christianity. Only of the crimes against humanity done in the name of religion - on Both sides. You can't say that Islam is a cruel and inhumane religion without knowing the history of your own religion, and exactly what is still being done in the name of your religion, or my religion, or your friend's religion, or your neighbor's...That you only quote the good about Christianity means you either have blinders on or don't not want to acknowledge the bad with the good. No religion is only good or only bad.

There are No perfect people and people are the ones doing unspeakable things right now in 2014 on both sides of the ocean. You have to know these same zealots of Christianity are speaking as though All Christians, like you, agree with them. That All Christians are so arrogant as to rewrite the greatest and most popular book in the world - the Bible. The Bible was written by men years, sometimes hundreds of years, after events had happened. You do realize people do not have perfect memories...

These same bigots are the ones behind not allowing our children to be taught the science of Evolution, only Creationism, as they have decided it must be.

As far as myself, do not make rash judgments without knowing me, without knowing what I believe in. I have spoken out on any crmes against humanity in general, and crimes against innocent people, especially women and children. As a survivor of abuse, I know something about crimes against women and children...do Not presume to say anything about my agreeing with violence in general, and/or any violence against those without the power to fight back.

Just read an article and signed a petition from people of faith group saying that Christianity does not include bigotry against Anyone, Any group...I could care less who marries who, but I do care that some people have decided Who cannot marry, Who cannot have equal pay, Who cannot practice their religious beliefs, Who may not go to school with my grandchildren...

That, Patricia, is BIGOTRY at its most Arrogant! Do Not Presume To call Me A Bigot - You do not have that right...Look deep inside yourself, because what you wrote proves what this article was about, exactly as Carrie said. No irony there?
 

Patricia Martinez (13)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 6:35 pm

GGmaSheila:

I understand what you are saying, but your argument- though fiery and emotional - still doesn't slice it and the inherent contradiction behind it and explanation for it still stands.

Christian clerics in the U.S.A. have the right to perform or refuse to perform wedding ceremonies for gay couples, as it should be, in a country with our constitution to not be coerced. They should not be forced to something that is against their religious principles, even if they are hypothetically incorrect religious principles as many may seem them.

The problem I have with this is that the same person who posted this article is the same person who does not note or say a word when other posters post articles about places like Iran or many other Islamic countries who not only do not perform marriages for gays, but execute gays and with great relish. The crowds cheer. It is something totally reprehensible to me, as I'm sure it is to you.

Why is not performing a marriage ceremony as a Christian WORSE than Muslims KILLING gay people?

In fact, with this person and others, Islam ALWAYS gets a free pass no matter how heinous the crime. Christianity ALWAYS gets blamed for far lesser infractions (according to the left).

There is only one answer I can see to explain this seriously warped sense of morality:

ALWAYS giving Islam a free pass when its crimes are far worse than Christianity is naked and ugly bigotry.

ALWAYS giving Islam a free pass when it does things like kill gays, honor killings, FGM, beheadings, plane crashes is a terribly warped prejudice.

There is just no other way around this conclusion.
 

Carrie B. (318)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 9:24 pm
Since I am Christian, I find it very distasteful when I see others use Christianity to spew hatred and bigotry of others. That is not what Christianity is about ~ nor is Islam about terrorism and killing. All who use religion as an excuse to spread hate and terror are wrong, ~ regardless of the religion.
 

Edith B. (145)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 9:53 pm
I, too, am a Christian, but I do not believe all Christians are right in their interpretations. Too many people take one verse and base their beliefs on that verse. They then use it as an excuse for bigotry.
 

GGmaSheila D. (169)
Sunday March 9, 2014, 10:31 pm
Where did I say Christians should be forced to something they don't believe in?
Where did I say that Islam should get a free pass for killing?
Why are you putting words where I did not? It seems you may be the one with double meanings here.

I am a very straightforward person...do not read anything into my words. What I say is what I mean - no hidden agendas/messages. If I thought/believed that anyone, even Muslims, "killing gay people" was not worse than not performing a LGBT wedding ceremony, I would have said exactly that.

Killing in the name of Any religion is wrong on any level and there can be no justification of that. Please don't make blanket statements like "Always giving Islam a free pass", and the Left does not Always blame Christianity. That's your prejudice showing, not mine.

So while you practice your bigoted form of Christianity, I'll practice my belief that All men and women are equal and should be respected and loved, not shut out or stoned or chastised or killed because they don't believe the same as myself, or live the same way I do, or are the same nationality, or don't go to church every sunday, or not the same sex or same race...

I do know you and others will not understand the truth and I feel bad about that. It takes so much energy to hate, and so little effort to open your heart and give love...Personally, the love wins out almost every time.
 

Shil O. (0)
Monday March 10, 2014, 2:18 am
@GGmaSheila
" You can't say that Islam is a cruel and inhumane religion without knowing the history of your own religion"

If a Christian engages in violence in the name of Christ, he is doing so in direct disobedience of His Master. Jesus taught that all who live by the sword will die by it (Matthew 26:52).
The teachings and example of Muhammad are very different. A Muslim who desires to commit violence in the name of Islam can find ample justification for his action both in the Koran and in the words and actions of the prophet Muhammad.(ahadith)

it is time you took the blinkers off -- violence is an integral part of Islam-- If you cannot accept this then you are deluding yourself by both being ignorant of facts,I would have said naive but naivety implies innocence


@Carrie B
nor is Islam about terrorism and killing. All who use religion as an excuse to spread hate and terror are wrong, ~ regardless of the religion.

What a load of poppycock,Islam is all about killing and dominance,read the koran and point out to me where there is love for any other-- outside of Islam
.Perhaps you could explain why apostates are to be killed,?
Was Muhammed joking when he said "I have been made victorious with terror"
or when he requests that someone kill Kaab who offended him and authorises the telling of lies to facilitate the murder.
or when he had the woman from Juhaina stoned to death for adultery
or when he had Asma bint Marwan murdered
“Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter?” ‘Umayr b. ‘Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, “You have helped God and His apostle,

or condoning the murder in the blind mans house
Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her. Thereupon the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.
or
when Muhammad sent Amr bin Umayya and an Ansari man to go to Mecca and assassinate Abu Sufyan.
or
when he murdered all the males of the Bani Qurayza
During the night, trenches sufficient to contain the dead bodies of the men were dug across the market place of the city. In the morning, Mahomet, himself a spectator of the tragedy, commanded that male captives to be brought forth in companies of five or six at a time. Each company as it came up was made to sit down in a row on the brink of the trench destined for its grave, there beheaded, and the bodies cast therein. …The butchery, begun in the morning, lasted all day, and continued by torchlight till the evening. Having thus drenched the market place with the blood of seven or eight hundred victims, and having given command for the earth to be smoothed over their remains,
Mahomet returned from the horrid spectacle to solace himself with the charms of Rihana, whose husband and all her male relatives had just been murdered at his command

and this man is regarded as the best example for mankind to follow and you go along with this --
Anyone who believes these actions are compatible in todays civilisation must surely be so filled with so much hate as to be incapable of rational thought
 

Lloyd H. (46)
Monday March 10, 2014, 7:24 am
Patricia, Shil O., et alia; I am never amazed by the lengths to which you will cherry pick from your chosen edition of you much edited and censored Bible. I guess some need to go to school, both Christianity and Islam have their roots in the OT. According to Mohammed/the Quran Isa Ibn Maryam(Jesus) is a Prophet of God of Virgin Birth who performed miracles, albeit by the Grace of God and not his own power, to reform Judaism. Jesus appears specifically in 93 ayaat, Adam, Noah and Moses are mentioned more. There is a true connectivity in the term Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition' because they are based one upon the other, just like Catholic-Protestant-Anglican-Baptist. There is difficulty in comparing the NT and the Quran as the Quran was actually written by Mohammed in his own hand and the NT was written at least 20 years after the supposed death of Jesus, and how Christians can claim Jesus died for their sins when he did not stay dead and is supposedly part of an Immortal Triad of Gods has always been beyond me. And considering the sheer number of Banned Gospels by other Apostles of Jesus, the most glaring of these would be for me are the Gospels of Peter, Thomas, Mary Magdalene banned by St. Irenaeus around 200 CE because as he said there are only 4 compass points and 4 winds so only 4 Gospels are needed. And for all of your cherry picking why do you always ignore Matthew 5:17-18 "Don not think that I have come to abolish the Law of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." So, as example, do any of you eat pork or shrimp, go to church on Sunday, why do you not stone adulterers or sell your unwanted children/conquered peoples, why do you have only one wife and no concubines. Like it or not Jesus was an Orthodox Jew not a Christian. The fact is you quote the Quran like you do your own Bible only as it suits you and your current agenda. I am so sorry that you have only second hand hearsay of the words of your Jesus written at least 2 decades after his disappearance by multiple authors per Gospel and not even all of the Gospels written by his Disciples. And Uganda, Ghana, Nigeria et alia are not in the past, nor are the current Imam of the Christian Taliban of America that call for the deaths of Gays or have and are exporting their homophobic hate around the world as I write. And quite frankly I am sick and tired of you and yours constantly demanding the Islam be treated as a monolithic singularly of evil and intolerance and Christianity as a monolithic singularity of good and love when neither is any way near being the truth. In my opinion the number of good decent people in both is about the same, whom remain under the radar for fear of their own not the other.
 

Carrie B. (318)
Monday March 10, 2014, 9:09 pm
No, Islam is not all about hate and killing, any more than real Christianity is about hate and bigotry. Too bad the people who are supposedly quoting the Quran know nothing about it.
 

Elizabeth M. (68)
Sunday March 16, 2014, 8:44 pm
The subject of religion and bigotry, I do not wish to get into again. People are allowed to have their own beliefs, the trouble starts when someone has to be the only one right!
Thanks Carrie.
 
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