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Why I'M on the Brink of Burning My Israeli Passport


Society & Culture  (tags: world, Israel government, Ayelet Shaked, politics, ethics, death, society, violence, crime, corruption, religion, news )

Carrie
- 25 days ago - independent.co.uk
She is young and pretty. She is a university graduate and computer engineer. She is also an Israeli Parliamentarian - and the reason why I am on the brink of burning my Israeli passport. Because behind that wide-eyed innocent face lurks the Angel of Death



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Comments

Lone F. (32)
Thursday August 21, 2014, 7:55 pm
Noted! Thanks Carrie!
 

daryl bishop (313)
Thursday August 21, 2014, 8:22 pm
gee carrie how did you miss that one of israels airstrikes kill the hamas leaders wife and kid.. it was in my paper this morning. you are slipping
 

Carrie B. (304)
Thursday August 21, 2014, 9:11 pm
Oh Daryl, I'm sure the news in your morning paper of more innocent Arab blood be spilled sent you into spams of happy ecstasy.
 

daryl bishop (313)
Thursday August 21, 2014, 9:23 pm
no i wanted you to know so you could have the spasms. truely i couldn't believe you missed it.conceder it a gift for you
 

Carrie B. (304)
Thursday August 21, 2014, 9:26 pm
Actually Daryl, that is old news I already knew about. The news today was about the three Hamas leaders being killed. I guess you missed it while you were out having your broom repaired.
 

daryl bishop (313)
Thursday August 21, 2014, 9:38 pm
you do have a sense of humor. i have the news on all day pluse read the newspaper. if i had a broom i would be sweeping you right out the door. i know how up to date you are and how acurate. if you had known it you would have gleefully posted it. i waited all day for it to show up here.
 

Lona Goudswaard (68)
Thursday August 21, 2014, 10:46 pm
I don't have an Israeli passport to burn, but Mira Bar Hillel expresses my sentiments quite accurately. I'm trying very hard to keep seeing both sides of the argument, but with the rhetoric of parliament members like Ayelet Shaked - sadly she isn't the only one - speaking openly about killing Palestinian women and children (who are referred to as little snakes) as if talking about eradicating vermin and Israeli youths expressing themselves and bonding by spewing similar hatred, I'm having a very hard time keeping to the middle of the road.
I have never met any of my Jewish side of the family either, because my mother was the sole survivor after her family was exterminated like the vermin the Germans said they were. And like the author I find it incomprehensible that the majority of the Israelis goes along with rhetoric like this and have justified it for themselves. I have no access to a symbolic denouncement like Mira Bar Hillel, but sometimes wish I had. It wouldn't change anything, but it would give something of a clean cut and having done with it, instead of trying to convince myself and others that there still are many Israelis who want peace and do not follow the government blindly.
 

Pat A. (117)
Thursday August 21, 2014, 11:32 pm
God bless and protect Mira Bar Hillel - that is a very thoughtful article - there is a further one in The Independent by her here

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/despite-claims-that-antisemitism-is-on-the-rise-in-the-uk-its-israels-critics-who-need-protection-9651586.html

The angelic looking Ayelet Shaked sadly projects all of her hatred onto others and then blames them for the hatred she can see - but even more sadly doesn't realize that hatred and murder will solve nothing - it will just cause even more hatred and murder. 'An eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind'.

I have bought a book by someone mentioned recently on Care2 - David Harris-Gershon "What do you buy the children of the terrorist who tried to kill your wife?" - it promises to be an emotionally exhausting read...

 

Rose NoFWDSPLZ (273)
Friday August 22, 2014, 12:15 am
@ Daryl your gifts are far too kind ( sarcasm)
 

Rose NoFWDSPLZ (273)
Friday August 22, 2014, 12:16 am
Another great post Carrie thank you for keeping me informed
 

Arild Warud (164)
Friday August 22, 2014, 3:30 am
These are the lies the Israeli's are spreading: "The Palestinians started it".How wrong this is,.Israel have killed Palestinians and grabbed their land since 1947 or even before that.If daryl want's to beleve these Zionist lies I believe he's a lost cause.
Thanks for posting Carrie.
 

Gene Jacobson (252)
Friday August 22, 2014, 8:22 am
First, I read both articles. The angelic looking demon is representative of a small far right fringe party. I can't believe most Jews believe what she does. That whole thing about "little snakes"? That has been part and participle of how things have been conducted the world over and certainly in that region. The Jews did not just grab Israel in 1947 - that partitioning was done by the major powers of the world though with little support from them. The Palestinians have a claim to that land but how far back does that go? Israel was living on that land more than 2000 years ago and the diaspora is what took them from it.

The bible describes how they got it, they took it from someone else as has been the case throughout history. For that matter, in the US, the Native American tribes, under the same logic the Palestinians use, still have a claim to THIS land, every bit as valid. They have small parts of it now, reservations, some "sovereign nations", some not. The only real answer is two states but no one in the middle east will accept that including none of the countries surrounding Israel - who went to war against Israel virtually the moment it was founded in order that something like the holocaust never happen to the Jewish people again. That is complicated history but the only real answer is a two state solution. And the entire middle east has to be part of that, but so far no other country is willing to cede any land to allow the Palestinian state to exist. When no one is willing to compromise at all, this is what you get. War forever.

As for that "little snakes" remark - again that is a far right fringe party speaking, not all of Israel. But the practice is biblical - all those injunctions to go take land and kill every man woman and child were this exactly. It is why rape was used as a tool of war, so that children of the conquered lands would not grow up with vengeance in their hearts. Well, that didn't work then and it doesn't work now. Especially in a region of the world that nurses grievances for millennia. What we need there are a bunch of grown ups and that just doesn't seem to happen in far too many places in our world. We need people who are willing to be done with the past and move forward to solutions that work for everyone. Until we have people like that running things, we will have insanity like this article and that ignorant young woman making things so much harder than they need to be.
 

daryl bishop (313)
Friday August 22, 2014, 8:54 am
and my gift was not ment to be kind. and gene you are right. but remember when the jews escaped egypt and went to the land of milk and honey i believe they called it cannan then. we are all himan but with different brains. some toward peace for their people some for death and destrution
 

daryl bishop (313)
Friday August 22, 2014, 9:00 am
Arild hamas did start this on. 1st by murdering those boys which israel retaliated and not matter what carrie thinks hamas did shoot the first bombs. carrie refuses to admit the reason there are more palistinien deaths is because israel has the iron dome. should they just sit there and let all those bombs reach the ground and kill. i think not. hamas knew that and it is just another way of getting their own people killed. and don't forget all the children who died building their terror tunnels. israel just wants to be left alone.
 

Carrie B. (304)
Friday August 22, 2014, 1:46 pm
Who started what is irrelevant at this point. Since Palestine is an occupied territory they are entitled ~ by international law ~ to fire rockets and dig and use their tunnels. As long as Israel continues its occupation and aggression Hamas and Palestinian fighters will legally continue to defend themselves and their people by whatever means necessary.
 

Lois Jordan (55)
Friday August 22, 2014, 1:49 pm
Noted. Thanks, Carrie. Such vileness and hatred. Who does she think she is? When all people can do is spread hatred, they must have nothing of true importance to say.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Friday August 22, 2014, 2:30 pm
I saw this story earlier.

A lot of Israeli parliamentarians say crazy things with every political slant. That's what happens when you have a direct proportional system with a threshold of 2%. There are also quite a few full parties which have never, nor will ever, be included in a governing coalition.

On the other hand, there is actually a fair argument behind what she's saying, that the entire families should be wiped out. I'm pretty certain that argument is wrong, and that following through on that argument is a mistake well-worth avoiding, but I wouldn't dismiss her as completely insane for believing it.
 

Carrie B. (304)
Friday August 22, 2014, 2:49 pm
I would dismiss her as being completely inhumane and a danger to Israel as well as Palestine. We all have our right wing insane idiots , but this angelic looking hate monger is worth getting out of government.
 

jan b. (3)
Friday August 22, 2014, 3:24 pm
Apparently, I was misled after 911.......I didn't know America's allies/ friends were the Saudis, the Ayatolah in Iran, Hamas, Helzbolah, ISIS, Al quida, Palestine, the Taliban, Saddam, OLB...... and we Americans are supposed to now point fingers and be mad at Israel .

Maybe Palestinians weren't celebrating the attack on 911......maybe they were celebrating the live of 3000 people who died. YEAH RIGHT !!! That's about as sensible as hating the jews who are doing some of the fighting in our behalf.

I'm astounded ---just completely baffled how Americans can support these terrorist--countries in the middle east that hate us. How dumb Americans are---it shows .....
 

daryl bishop (313)
Friday August 22, 2014, 4:54 pm
it isw not most americans it is carrie and her hate followers jan
 

Carrie B. (304)
Friday August 22, 2014, 5:02 pm
Fortunately, American support for Palestine is growing every day Israel continue their illegal occupation, blockade, and genocide in Gaza.
 

Carrie B. (304)
Friday August 22, 2014, 7:18 pm
Speaking of twisted minds Daryl, ~ keep up the attacks and slanderous statements about me. You are showing your hatred and bigotry with every keystroke.
 

Barry B. (21)
Friday August 22, 2014, 7:29 pm
Oh, Daryl, there's that old trite Hitler thing again. Whenever we want to insult someone, we accuse them of being Nazis or related to Hitler. How come no one is ever related to Genghis Kahn or Attila the Hun or Pope Urban II? Can't you do anything original?
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Friday August 22, 2014, 8:48 pm
Here's the reasonable argument on her side and a solution, presented to me by a friend whose family fled the West Bank, which is far more humane than the one the MK proposed. (Apparently Palestinian Christians are not exactly well-treated.) I agree totally with my friend's proposal, though I didn't have it quite so well-refined, and I understand that solution's implementation is already well-underway, though it is very slow.

If a charity closes down, does that really leave a void? Last I checked, as long as the community supports the charity's cause strongly enough to have supported it in the first place, another will simply be created to take its place. The same goes for political advocacy, sports-leagues, schools, whatever organization you want. The same goes for Hamas. If violent extremism (or at least apathy to the killing of non-Palestinians) weren't present throughout Palestinian culture, Hamas could never have gained the stature that it has. As long as that underlying culture remains, sticking to killing the combatants is a losing proposition because they will just be replaced. You have to eliminate the recruitment-pool. Ideally, this would happen through Palestinian cultural change driven by a desire for a better life, but no foreign power, whether Israel or the U.S. or any other can make that happen, nor can any rely upon that happening. The simplest and most reliable method to eliminate the recruitment-pool, and also the traditional one throughout the world under the circumstances (violent rebellion against a ruling power driven by a popular movement), backed by extensive precedent, is simply to kill them all.

I have long been an advocate of the application of what is called "cultural genocide", flooding the Palestinian media with Western programming, dumping whatever aspects of Western culture can be dumped on them at every opportunity. I generally support doing this until the new generation adopts Western culture (as much of culture must be taken together as a unit and cannot be transferred in pieces) rather than that of their parents, at least enough to drive serious opposition to the movement underlying Hamas. My friend suggested specifically targeting the women with this, as they are the ones who raise the children, using every message, healthy and unhealthy, that gets dumped on women throughout Western civilization. Give them Western TV and movies, body-image problems and make-up, the works. I would go further and recommend the destruction of Palestinian domestic media-broadcasters which actively oppose this, the replacement of textbooks in schools as a condition for aid, and whatever else can be done to go after the kids.

It's a harsh solution, deliberately destroying a culture, but the only other alternatives I see are physical genocide, and centuries of war, leading to more bloodshed than the annihilation of the movement's current and future generations. It's also not without precedent: Look at what happened to Japan after WWII. While I've never visited (though I would like to), I think modern-day Japan came out of the destruction of its pre-WWII culture okay. Sadly, this MK is probably either unaware of such an option or does not believe it could work.
 

Walter Firth (64)
Friday August 22, 2014, 8:59 pm
Good post Gene the only one worth reading.Daryl why waste time.,those who are anti Israel will remain that way, Who cares. As for Mira I'm sure she won't be missed.
 

Barry B. (21)
Friday August 22, 2014, 9:05 pm
Stephen--This "cultural genocide" that you advocate is exactly what we did to the native Americans in the US. Now the indian nations, at least in the west, are little more than third-world countries with casinos and no history. Is that what you envision for the Middle East?
 

daryl bishop (313)
Friday August 22, 2014, 10:33 pm
barry i am not the one that started comparing hitler that was someone else then there was the posting of surviviors. none of which i started. that whole thing is rediculas. find whoever said it and tell them to be origonal. i gree what we did to the indians. but some have sure gotten rich today because of the casinos, you need to check your facts before agreeing with carries insults. she is just using someone elses words. suddenly this became about comparing israel and hitler they could not be more wrong.
 

Debra G. (0)
Friday August 22, 2014, 11:04 pm
Gee, someone is shocked shocked that there are bigots and right-wing idiots in Israel? There is no government in the world immune from them. Just know that the majority of Jews do NOT celebrate the deaths of Gazan civilians.
 

Carrie B. (304)
Friday August 22, 2014, 11:20 pm
Thank you Debra. As I have said before everyone has their right wing not jobs!
 

Lorna B. (21)
Saturday August 23, 2014, 4:27 am
Surely if this woman feels so strongly about what is happening then it would be better to retain her passport and stay to actively fight for what she believes. Just burning it seems to be just washing your hands of the situation, leaving all those you disagree with in power. If enough people within Israel stay together they can have the government they want. Giving up and denying citizenship is running away and ignoring the problem.
 

caroline s. (80)
Saturday August 23, 2014, 5:21 am
I agree with Debra G.:there is no government in the world immune from bigots and right-wing idiots... }:-(
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Saturday August 23, 2014, 8:19 pm
Hi Barry :)

It stinks, but being poor and disconnected from history sounds better, to me at least, than staying stuck in a nearly static society society constantly at war with everybody else, violently divided along clan-lines, with the only faction potentially capable of uniting people being one of crazy religious fanatics. Right now, Arabs in Arabic countries have something worse than a lack of connection to their history: Their history was recorded for a long, long time without mass-literacy or widespread use of large-scale arithmetic. If you can't read, or at least can't fully read a map, what would events in a far off land you've never seen, full of people you've never met, mean to you? With no sense of scale, the world beyond the horizon would be just that, "the world beyond the horizon". If you didn't have a feel for numbers, what would it mean to say the Crusades were a thousand years ago, or that the days of Mohammed were about sixty generations ago? In terms of emotional impact, all of history, every grievance and conflict, would be compressed into living memory and "before living memory". That's a weight no people can bear and prosper. One way or another, a bit of distance from that history would not be all bad.
 

Carrie B. (304)
Saturday August 23, 2014, 9:44 pm
Stephen, you present a very dismal ~ and I think inaccurate ~ picture of what you think of the 'Arabs in Arabic countries. You make it sound like Arabs are a tribe of barely literate savages. IMO that type of generality in describing an entire group of people is very dangerous and shows a lack of compassion for people as individuals.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 9:26 pm
Not barely literate savages. Just only recently literate en masse (on the timescales of massive cultural changes) and living in a society where the primary engine of social progress is suppressed. Not even all Arabs, really: I understand Lebanon has had fairly good literacy for some time (though it gets heavy cultural influences from other Arab states) and social progress is not nearly as suppressed in Tunisia as in other Arab states.

It's also not just about Arabs. There are a few reasons why the Renaissance in Europe got going after the printing press was invented (and took centuries).
 
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