Tuesday October 17, 2006, 11:37 pm
From the name

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 6:58 am
An article that leaves one absolutelty incredulous...We train first graders to use computers, but we can't expect our elected leaders On "Intelligence" committees to 'right click' 3 times...If these folk won't avail themeselves of the "CIA World Fact Book" (available to anyone), a simple 1 word seaech on Wikipedia, or a 2 or 3 word search on Google (all of which answer the question in a rather direct manner) then what are they doing in there positions and shame on us for allowing them to be there.

And the fact that your post is averaging less than "note it" per hour is almost as scary....Personally, I'd like to see every one on this board who posts on the whole mid-east situation answer that question...

Thanks for the great post Randy!

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 9:46 am
Little D, I absolutely agree. Isn't basic research part of an analysts job and aren't our elected officials supposed to be analysts as well as legislators. Let's all do a little more research.

Randy, Thanks for the great post.

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 9:46 am
Interesting point. America knows very little about Islam and even less about the histories of the countries we are occupying. Frightening thought.

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 10:14 am
To be honest, which is something I firmly believe in, I don't know The full extent of the differences either. But then, I'm not making policy & I'm not in the positiion to do too much about it anyhow. However, what I do remember from HISTORY & RELIGION CLASS from back home in SWEDEN, the differences in between the two fractions is the MAIN REASON that whole REGION has been at war one way or another for THOUSANDS of YEARS. The struggle they've been facing for all this time in loosing family & friends in this religious struggle has had the whole region fighting forever. They've been fighting on so many levels, not just RELIGION, but plainly to survive in this often HOSTILE environment. This is actually part of the reason this war in Irak is a very bad idea. They know how to survive in this environment, how to get around in it etc. Soldiers sent there are just not prepared, nor are the brass.

What I do know about myself is that if asked that question I as a normal person would simply tell the truth - I've not studied up on it for a long time & need to refresh myself on it before I answer. Or would you like to enlighten me. Personally I'd prefer to read hopefully independant & neutral information on the subject. Sweden here I come. Oh yeah, I can do it on the computer by accessing a Swedish site.

If I was a person in power I would have tried to take the time out to find out A LONG TIME AGO. I would have STUDIED MAPS telling me the religious distribution, agriculture, social structure of the whole region. I would have found out about Islam & it's different branches etc. If time was of an essence & my life did nbot permit me to do the actual research myself, well, then I'd have an aide to it for me. I'd read it cover to cover.

How can anyone thing this situation in the MIddle East will be easily fixed. It has not been fixed in thousands of years.

France told the US, youre opening a CAN OF WORMS/PANDORAS BOX. But did they listen? NO, instead the US people were taught to HATE THE FRENCH.

I better stop here....... This has bothered me for so long

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 10:27 am
Why am I not surprised?

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 10:39 am
"Too many officials in charge of the war on terrorism just don’t care to learn much, if anything, about the enemy we’re fighting. And that’s enough to keep anybody up at night." Why is it that this Administration loves to Wallow in Ignorance?

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 10:57 am
No surprise to hear the author state "...most American officials I’ve interviewed don’t have a clue. " AND "A “gotcha” question? Perhaps. But if knowing your enemy is the most basic rule of war, I don’t think it’s out of bounds....I’m not looking for theological explanations, just the basics: Who’s on what side today, and what does each want?"

I don't know all these answers (working to learn more), but would hope that leaders who initiated the wars (and their teams) would and should know. This story exposes yet more incompetence of the Bush Regime's war on terror. -Good Post Randy, Thanks.

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 11:41 am
good read

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 12:46 pm
I don't think personllay anyone can identify one from the other anymore.
If only you guys could be over here, and see the way that they are destroying things in their own country. The various ways that they are killing innocent people.

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 1:28 pm
With tremendous respect for someone who's been there, I truly appreciate your thoughts & observations, Eddie.

I understand that war is Hell and what a mess it is over there. I support the troops and want to bring them home alive. My Dad was a WWII Marine who taught me to ask tough questions. My husband survived Vietnam. I must ask, should people starting/leading war(s) know, understand, or recognize the enemy? (Military Intelligence) Should they know friendly from hostile? Should they know who's on what side, or know what does each side want? Should they know what they are fighting for or against? Shouldn’t they know who to fight and who to protect? Without seeking this knowledge, wouldn't the ignorance lead to more confusion, tragedy, casualties & hatred? If not, what are we there for now? Why, when and how should we leave?

I ASK from sincere concern & reverence for life.

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 1:36 pm
Great Article-and good points. How sad that we all live in a world where knowing someone's religion or labeling a person is so important. It all comes down to respecting others cultures, taking the time to learn and wanting to do a job the right way. With Bush as the leader-most are just asking why in the heck are we even over there!
It must be so difficult to be over there and keep positive about the entire situation.
I just want to say get home safe Eddie and stay strong!! We support you and the troops. deb

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 1:50 pm
In knowing a person you can tell the diff. In not knowing the person you cannot. It would be like trying to tell the difference between a Christian Methodist and a Chrisian Luthern. Yes there are different branches of the Islamic faith, just as there are diff. between the Christian faith. Just because some people are radical does not mean that it is the entire faith. If we want to believe that a few speak for the country we can look at the Waco (Texas) incident, or the particular group of Mormans, not to mention the outrageous number of children we have here going to school with guns and trying to kill everyone. I personally just can't agree with defining an entire country, or faith by the actions of a minority. I still think it is wrong though that our appointed officals cannot say that basic point. They do need to do a lot more research in hummanities.

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 2:51 pm
"It seems silly to have to argue that officials responsible for counterterrorism should be able to recognize opportunities for pitting these rivals against each other."

This seems to be the whole point of this article, not to understand the differences, just to use the differences to have them kill each other.

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 3:29 pm
Our presence in Iraq will make ALL SIDES mistrust all other sides who APPEAR to side with the invading army. As long as OUR PANZER DIVISION is murdering them, and OUR operatives are controlling their media, and OUR GESTAPO is occupying their capitol city, there will be WAR in Iraq between the Patriots to Iraq, and the TRAITORS who side with BUSHITLER.

I would Expect no less from the people in my own city. Fight until you drive the invaders OUT.

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 4:09 pm
Well, never to be thought ignorant even if it is true, I emmediately went on the hunt for the dirfferences
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi'a_Islam, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni are good places to start and to my mind to end with. It is not brain surgery, but it idoes require the use of one to get the gist of differences. The question then becomes lie he mentioned the difference between Catholic and Pretestant, but I say it is a little more like the differences between methodists, presbyterians, 1st, 2nd, 3rd Baptists, Ana Baptists, mennonites, Amish, Puritans, unitarians, lutherans both traditiona and Missouri synods, and on and on. So get down the basics at least and move on. The interesting this is, One God, what goes around comes around, do unto others... and unless stung, don't rock the boat for yourself and others just because it suits your situationl of being in the way of a wasp Kindness, peacefulness prayer and fast. Seems to be in all religions and sects. What an interesting article and too bad we are seeing it and responding and not the ones who need to see and respond on a large scale.. I dare say, why DO they get the big bucks anyway?

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 5:08 pm
This was a very interesting article!....maybe over simplified......but as such it could well be a starting/talking point in a far more important issue........that of attempting to prevent the spread of terrorism hatred & fear in our own communities.......ie......why & how,did they 1st become involved as individuals (in any religion or belief ).....many I suspect,would say it was what they where taught to believe as children.......if asked how they now FEEL their personal role in that belief IS & WHY......& what they hoped to achieve,& what the limitations were ......THEN & ONLY THEN would we & they learn of the enemy within......& come to terms with it!

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 5:57 pm
Have to agree with the author's point, and also have to confess, I am ignorant, isn't just the politicians.

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 7:46 pm
it is a very interesting article!!! & i do agree with Candace Dietirich she is so right & that the article is over simplified!! "But if knowing your enemy is the most basic rule of war" its just that this comment struck me as....well does that mean that being a sunni or shia is the enemy...because i wouldn't like to be the enemy!! I'm 4 peace as much as anyone!! i just think that our religious beliefs should not make us have 2 choose sides!!

Wednesday October 18, 2006, 11:20 pm
I'm ignorant, I admit it. The leaders are even MORE ignorant, though. At least I knew that the Sunnis are more secular and liberal, while the Shia are more fundamentalist and extreme. The Sunnis had secular law. The Shiites want Sharia law, which strips women of many of their rights.

It's sad that we're on the side of the extremists imposing religious laws on the whole country, instead of on the side of the people who might actually tolerate Americans and their religion.

Thursday October 19, 2006, 12:10 am
Well, just like other religions, things are a little more complicated than the Sunnis want secular law while the Shiites want Sharia law. The Wahabbi sect of the Sunnis are probably more fundamental than any. Osama Bin Laden and Al Queda and the fundamentalist madrassas in Pakistan, which teach the Taliban (translation: student) are taught Sunni Wahabbi fundamentalism which seeks to rule by Sharia law. Whereas, not all Shiite Muslims are oppose a secular state.

Thursday October 19, 2006, 2:59 am
Well, I've been married to a Sunni (Egyptian) and have lived with a Shiite (Afghani). There are important differences, I can tell you.
But that is not my point here. Sure, know you ennemy is a basic rule of war. But not only his religion, you must consider all the other aspects of his life and beliefs. It is a real job !
Just that you might realize, getting to know him, that he is not actually your ennemy.
I guess religion is just a cloud of smoke hidding quite different issues.
Therefore, on the fact that the first thing to do is getting to know our ennemies, I can only agree.
But on the idea we must get to know them to use one against the other, although it might look a brilliant one at first, I am less than convinced it would be the best thing to do for the future of humanity.

Thursday October 19, 2006, 8:24 am
SINCE WHEN ARE MUSLIMS "THE ENEMY"?????????? WHETHER SHIA OR SUNNI??????????
The United States INVADED Iraq, UNASKED, ILLEGALLY AND IMMORALLY -- A WAR CRIME BY ANY DEFINITION.
SINCE WHEN WERE THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ, WHATEVER THEIR RELIGION, "THE ENEMY"???????
WHAT THE HECK ARE WE DOING IN IRAQ, ANYWAY????????
BEFORE we illegally and immorally and unasked, invaded and occupied Iraq, SUNNIS AND SHIA LIVED TOGETHER IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOODS, IN HARMONY.
IT IS THE CIA AND BRITISH MI5 that is responsible for much of the mosque bombings and civilian bombings in Iraq -- ON PURPOSE TO FOMENT A CIVIL WAR. "Divide and Conquer", is the idea.
THE BRITISH GENERAL IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, WHO SAYS THEIR PRESENCE IS ONLY MAKING THINGS MUCH WORSE.
I saw on the news yesterday, SYRIA has offered to be a peacekeeper in Iraq -- THEY KNOW THE REGION AND THE CULTURE. But, Syria will only offer its help to Iraq IF AND WHEN THE U.S. LEAVES.

EDDIE, AND ALL TROOPS, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA SHOULD LEAVE IRAQ IMMEDIATELY -- TODAY IF POSSIBLE. YOU AND ALL TROOPS SHOULD INSIST ON IT. THERE WAS NEVER, EVER THE SLIGHTEST EXCUSE FOR THE U.S. TO BE IN IRAQ AT ALL. IT WAS ALL ENTIRELY BASED ON LIES BY THE BUSH MIS-ADMINISTRATION, AND NOTHING ELSE. AND NOTHING ELSE BUT PURE LIES.
There NEVER, EVER was a "reason" for the U.S. to INVADE Iraq, a NON-AGGRESSIVE country that POSED NO THREAT WHATSOEVER TO THE U.S.
There NEVER, EVER, is one single solitary reason for the U.S. to OCCUPY Iraq, to STAY -- WHERE IT IS EVERY DAY MAKING THE TRAGIC SITUATION WORSE. The U.S. is COMPLETELY UNABLE TO PROTECT ONE SINGLE LIFE OF ONE IRAQI CITIZEN by being there.
ALL HONOR TO ALL U.S. TROOPS WHO HAVE GONE AWOL AND REFUSED TO DEPLOY TO IRAQ: such as Lt. Ehren Watada and Suzanne Swift. MAY THERE SOON BE MANY, MANY MORE TROOPS WHO FOLLOW THEIR COURAGEOUS EXAMPLE AND HELP TO END THIS SENSELESS WAR THE U.S. SHOULD NEVER HAVE STARTED.
It was NOT the Sunnis or the Shia who started this war!!!!!! NEVER FORGET THAT!!!!!!!!!

Thursday October 19, 2006, 9:14 am
Funny thing everyone seems to forget is that the REASON we went over there was GWB's response to 911! We needed to get Suddam out of power because of what happened here at home? Now tell me this, how many feel safer at home? How many feel like 911 has a lesser chance of happening again because of GWB's war policies? This administration has me so angry I can barely speak about them! America has rolled backwards in time.... we have lost, or given up so many freedoms, yet lost so many lives fighting for the very freedoms so many Americans are so willing to lose! They don't even get it! It's like talking to a wall! What is happening in Iraq right now, as it has been for thousands of years, is all about religion and we have NO BUSINESS being involved! NONE! Just as no one can tell a Sunni from a Shihite, you can't tell a Timothy McVeigh from a Bin Laden! Where is he anyway.......

Thursday October 19, 2006, 9:47 am
Excellent article. Thanks for posting this. And something that we all need to be reminded of... Too bad that George Bush* didn't know that these two different sects even existed until only a few weeks before his planned attack on Iraq...

Thursday October 19, 2006, 12:07 pm
personaly, i think that any senseble person would not make a distinction between the two.... treet all forieners especialy muslims with suspission!!! why?... past events have shown that even the most inocent, mild mannerd muslim could be a terrorist in the making.... we in england as well as those in the usa have the results of what can and will happen if we fail to keep muslims on a short leash!!

Thursday October 19, 2006, 12:55 pm
What a story. If you do not know your enemies, than you are fighting with the air. All Sunnies or Shias or Wahabies are enemies of America, there may be some from these sect. But it was USA who supporeted all these in Afghanistan while tehy were fighting against Russia. It Was USA who supported Sadam in war against Iran. Why Some American are fighting teh proxy war of others. You must live in peace within your country and let others live in peace in their countries. When Afganistan, Iraq, Iran are not deciding, what teh religion be in USA than why you are deciding that in Iraq Shias will rule? Let Iraqies decide who will be ruler of Iraq. Please help your own people and spend your budget on well being of your people, not on fighting with Iraq, Palestine, Afghaistan, Iran Korea or others. If you do not interfer with others job I hope no one will interfere with your job and country. All peaceful Muslims request to All american to be peaceful and try to develop your country and leave the others on their fate. Today Bush agreed taht he is facing the problems same as USA faced in Vietnam....Please do not make others to laugh on USA and stop thsi proxy war. Save your money for your kids who may need that in future and make your country economically strong and help poor people around the world. Respect others and all others will respect you. Fight with the world one by one and you will creat enemies not friends. Try to win the heart of people with your love. You can not win the heart of people around the world with your weapons. Wish you best of luck, if you understand to take charge of your own country not the others.

Thursday October 19, 2006, 4:04 pm
I am all for peace in every country! I posted earlier the way I feel about this article but someone wrote in here that we should feel safer from attacks now?!? Personally I feel less safe in the idea of going anywhere else when we do not need to. I feel less safe because when the rest of the world looks at America as a country that wants to control everything on the planet, including them, I think that a lot of really bad things could happen. I just think we should all love each other, regardless of the fact that every culture, race, and religion might have some fundamentalists.

Thursday October 19, 2006, 5:39 pm
A gun asks no questions. It does not ask if it is aimed at the righteous or the damned. It will carry out its grisley task regardless. The the owner of the fingure on the trigger should know some basic facts about who it is he/she is being required to shoot.
Perhaps we should ask questions first before pulling the trigger.

Thursday October 19, 2006, 5:59 pm
I must admit that I did not really understand the differences between them. But then I am not part of the "Intelligence" Network in this country that is, supposedly, securing our safety.....Actually, it is quit frightening to me that they don't know the difference...It must be terrifying to the people of Iraq, knowing that the country that has invaded them does not know the difference.

Thursday October 19, 2006, 11:49 pm
BMutiny T.

it figures a freak from King County would feel that way...
why don't you go hang out on first ave. with the rest of the freaks... or maybe protest that the blue moon because it does not allow pot smoking anymore! or did the cops shut them down?

Lt. Ehren Watada needs to be tried to the fullest extent of the UCMJ! I hope they throw away the key. He disobeyed a direct order and missed a movement... not a bowel movement, but failed to deploy, as a leader he set a horrible example. If you hate the USA so much... if you go north about a hundred or so miles you will pass the peace arch up there in Blaine... just cross the border and you can live with people that think the same way you do.

this has been a waste of batteries on my wireless keyboard... dewds like you would never understand.

Friday October 20, 2006, 12:58 am
Did I miss something huge, cuz the post above seems to have no connection to the article? Have re-read again and I am still missing it!

Friday October 20, 2006, 1:00 am
Oh, I see...a reply post to someone else. Ok...

Friday October 20, 2006, 9:13 pm
BOTH SUNNI AND SHIA MUSLIMS SHARE MOST FUNDAMENTAL ISLAMIC BELIEFS AND ARTICLES OF FAITH. THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THESE TWO MAIN SUB-GROUPS WITHIN ISLAM INITIALLY STEMMED NOT FROM SPIRITUAL DIFFERENCES, BUT POLITICAL ONES. SHIA FOLLOW A LINE OF IMAMS WHICH THEY BELIEVE HAVE BEEN APPOINTED BY THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PBUH) OR GOD. SUNNI MUSLIMS WHO MAKE UP THE MAJORITY (85%) OF MUSLIMS ALL OVER THE WORLD, CONTEND THAT LEADERSHIP OF THE COMMUNITY IS NOT A BIRTHRIGHT, BUT A TRUST THAT IS EARNED AND WHICH MAY BE GIVEN OR TAKEN AWAY BY THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES.

So, I disagree with that agent...Sunni Muslims are NOT radical. I'd almost say...somewhat jokingly, it's like the difference between the radical republicans and liberal democrats...no offense intended to Muslims.

Love & Peace,
MZ

Friday October 20, 2006, 9:29 pm
As if it makes a difference whether either the Democrats or the Republicans know the difference!

Why do they need to know if their only job is to rubber-stamp this policy? Do you think bush knows the difference?

However, those who developed the plan know the difference. That’s why they’re exploiting those differences to keep the war going.

From the perspective of the average citizen, the war may appear to be going badly. But how is the war going badly from the perspective of Halliburton or other defense contractors? Could they have hoped for anything better than perpetual chaos in Iraq to justify their continued operations there?

The sad part is that the Democrats, at least most of those in Congress, joined the Republicans to get us to this point. Just look at the record of Hillary Clinton. Look at that new senator who’s being touted as the savior of the Democratic Party and the country. Yes Obama! What was his first vote after he got into the senate? You guessed right. It was a vote to confirm Condoleeza Rice, thus insuring the continuation of the Neocons’ policy! How was that vote any different from that cast by Lieberman or any other right-wing Republican?

Those who formulated the policy know very well the difference between the Shiites and the Sunnis. If those thugs didn’t know, how were they able to foment unrest in the north and south of Iraq years before the invasion? Those who were handing out contracts left and right to rebuild Iraq before they destroyed it, knew exactly what they were doing.

Those entrusted with overseeing the government policy are the ones in deep sleep. But the ones who are reaping the benefits of this war knew exactly what they planned for. The war from their perspective couldn’t have been any more successful.

We talk about bush’s tax cuts and how it favored the rich. What we don’t talk about is how this war is being financed and who is footing the bill.

Let’s forget about the immorality of the war. Every war has its booty. In addition to the Iraqis, who else is paying the price for this war? Who paid over $3 for a gallon of gas at the pump? Who pocketed all these obscene profits? Who plundered the Iraqi resources and pumped their oil un-metered for all these years?

Do we see at the end of the day that the average US citizen is as much a victim of this war as the average Iraqi citizen?

But that average US citizen was led to the polls with blinders over his/her eyes and fed nothing but hatred and fear so that this administration could continue the policy it was ordered to implement.

Those who planned this war knew how to sell it to the unsuspecting, brainwashed public.

This war could not have been more of a success than it has been to those who planned it and profited from it.

A few dead soldiers here and a few dead children there are nothing that the public-relations people of those was profiteers could not handle.

They sold them on the idea that there is honor in dying in this war. They fell for that before they fell in the battlefield.

Democrats! Republicans! If you can tell them apart, you’re probably referring to the spelling of their names.

The Wall Street Journal! The New York Times! They were all beating the drums of war.

All in cahoots? You bet! And the New York Times had the audacity/decency (perceived) to apologize for its coverage during the days leading to this war.

This war was not planned by stupid people. It was approved by stupid people and fought by unsuspecting, trusting people after they were brainwashed with hatred and fear.

Sorry about this lengthy comment!

Sunday October 22, 2006, 9:05 pm
I believe wholeheartedly in the war on terror, but also think it is terribly sad to think that we could go to war against someone, and have religion be blamed as the root of the war. I am concerned that the same thing is happening in the US today. Our culture is being broken into smaller and smaller segments-first race, then religion, then on to political party. We are Americans first, last and always. Now people want to leave another job half done so we can experience another 9-11? Maybe next time we will be hit with a nuclear bomb? I think the media needs to quit playing the race card and get a grip on the real cause of this war!

Sunday October 22, 2006, 11:46 pm
Sam ... I am trying to understand your last statement...

"This war was not planned by stupid people. It was approved by stupid people and fought by unsuspecting, trusting people after they were brainwashed with hatred and fear."


Are you saying that the United States Military are ".. unsuspecting, trusting people after they were brainwashed with hatred and fear."?

There are 1.37 million active duty military men and women... how did they brainwash that many people?

or am I just not understanding your statement correctly.

Monday October 23, 2006, 12:06 pm
Point taken, Sam. But, now...I don't think voting is even worth the while...I say get rid of the whole lot of em.

As far as army being brainwashed? DUH. The ones who can't be brainwashed get out of the military. It isn't for free-thinkers. There are many people there for the paycheck and hopes for further education who never realized that they'd actually be expected to be pawns in a scam war.

Do you really think that killing people in Iraq or ANYWHERE is preserving their freedom or ours?

If we get hit by a bomb it's because we did something that we shouldn't have done. Terrorized a whole country that never provked the US to begin with. Just because Bush had it in for Hussein doesn't make it right to destroy Iraq! And like Sam says, the reason for war is because it's putting money in the pockets of the filthy war-mongers who are invested in war! What goes around comes around.

Love & Peace,
MZ

Monday October 23, 2006, 12:14 pm
"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.” - Henry Kissinger, quoted in “Kiss the Boys Goodbye: How the United States Betrayed Its Own POW’s in Vietnam”

Monday October 23, 2006, 7:06 pm

Never try to teach a pig a sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Thursday October 26, 2006, 2:42 pm

Margaretha Z... I am surprised that you have not started a petition to remove over a quarter million crosses from Arlington National to start some separation of church and state junk.

Thursday November 9, 2006, 1:53 am
HAH! Virginia was the Omega state! OINKY OINKKKKKK...do you like the way I sing? The State needs to believe in A Divine power (LOVE) NOT a church or greedy neo-cons who only want a nation of slaves.

Love & Peace!
MZ