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Win for Romney in First Debate


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: americans, elections, GoodNews, government, news, republicans, usa )

Carol
- 684 days ago - smh.com.au
Barack Obama, the man considered by many to be the greatest political orator of his generation, was left rambling and flat footed many times during the first presidential debate. Moments after the debate ended Mitt Romney was declared the winner....



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Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 1:00 am
Barack Obama, the man considered by many to be the greatest political orator of his generation, was left rambling and flat footed many times during the first presidential debate.

Moments after the debate ended Mitt Romney was declared the winner by TV commentators and millions following it on social media.

Scored well in the debate against Barack Obama ... the Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney. Photo: Reuters

As Mr Romney gave polished and often detailed answers, the President looked down to his lectern to take notes, occasionally shaking his head and giving a lop-sided smile.
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Mr Romney, resplendent in Grand Old Party-issue blue suit, red tie, US flag pin – a size or so larger than Mr Obama's – mainly looked straight to his opponent during the President's answers.

He looked better and surer for it, in a debate that will be judged by many mainly on the impression the speakers made rather than the content of their answers.

In the debate on domestic policy, those answers were often detailed and heavy on jargon, as the two sparred over debt, deficit, unemployment, regulation, healthcare and the role of government.

Mr Romney made Mr Obama wear his incumbency, constantly harking back to America's high unemployment – he said it was 23 million, which is only half true because that includes underemployment – and the $US16 trillion ($15.7 trillion) debt.

Mr Obama did not use many of the attack lines expected of him. He did not mention Mr Romney's notorious “47 per cent” comments, and was long minutes into the discussion over healthcare before he pointed out that “Obamacare” – a term he said he had come to like – was modelled on Mr Romney's policy when governor of Massachusetts.

Nor did Mr Obama raise Mr Romney's background at his company Bain Capital, nor his low tax rate, all areas his campaign has spent millions attacking.

In the discussion of spending cuts, Mr Romney found a clear line to defend a hawkish Republican position, telling the host, Jim Lehrer: “What things would I cut from spending? Well, first of all, I will eliminate all programs by this test, if they don't pass it: is the program so critical it's worth borrowing money from China to pay for it? And if not, I'll get rid of it.”

He stood by his declaration that he would balance the budget only by cutting spending rather than increasing taxes.

Mr Obama sought to pin him down on his tax policy, claiming his planned 20 per cent across-the-board cut would cost $5 trillion and, as a result, would either blow out the budget or force the tax take from the middle class to go up.

Mr Romney denied the charge, claiming he could find the increased revenue by closing loopholes. He again declined to name the loopholes.

When it came to the role of government, Mr Obama said its first duty was to protect Americans, a clear nod towards his killing of Osama bin Laden, before he quoted Abraham Lincoln saying there were things better done collectively than individually.

As expected, Mr Romney stood by the primacy of the individual but said those unable to look after themselves should be supported.

He also appeared to coin a new phrase, declaring his opposition to “trickle-down government”.

Before the debate, analysts had said that given Mr Obama's narrow but consistent lead in national and swing-state polls, Mr Romney needed a clear victory in the debate to reinvigorate his campaign.
It seems he has done that.
 

Cam V. (417)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 1:01 am
It was like someone forgot to tell Obama he was supposed to at least show up!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 1:12 am
LOL...You are so right Cam!!!! But then there is another story out where Romney went over the alotted time...so now they are making a story on Romney abusing the moderator I guess..at least that is what it sounds like! If not that they are trying to make something out of nothing to throw off the fact Romney won!! Or whatever!! ROTFL
 

Kevin A. (68)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 1:57 am
I don't think President Obama was prepared for Romney to stand there and lie while standing on stage with the President.
 

Jae A. (323)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 1:59 am
this coming from teabaggers , who are the most unpopular group in the U.S...less liked due to their lies/misinformation and bad policies for people over all, liked less than Muslim and Atheist...what more could we expect to be posted after every debate , the truth by them...I don't think so.
There was no winner...no big moments ..no one watching had their minds changed ...both held their own but as a win for either...not. Romney still had the same zombie look as always and Obama had his same ...pretty much a boring debate other than when Romney proved he wasn't into math in order to find/know the facts as to his figures.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 2:09 am
Kevin..I can't actually believe that you had the guts to say that! WOW!!!

And Jae..well...considering the source...I would expect a comment like this from you!! ROTFLMAO...if you only cared what a total zombie it makes you look like to make a comment like that after that fantastic debate where Romney TOTALLY obliterated Obama and for you to say there was no winner!? Keep digging Jae...get your head deeper!! For your age I can see you have learned nothing!!!!!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 2:17 am
Did you even watch the debates Jae or are you just blubbering incoherant BS!? I truly do not believe you..but I do believe you DO know that Romney won the debate hands down but you are too stubborn and embarrassed to say that Obama did a horse sh*t job on debating and looked like a whooped puppy!!! That is usually what happens when somebody don't want to admit defeat!! LOL..No matter me to me though..I know who won and who didn't...and I know who will win again and again and then we have Paul Ryan VS Biden..now you want to watch somebody REALLY get whooped..you watch that one!! LOL
 

Jae A. (323)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 2:32 am
For all this celebration is worth to the teabaggers espcially ...I guess you've forgotten about this being one of those 2008 campaign moments of the past,according to Republicans ...and how it worked out for that 'supposed' winner of that first debate.
:
McCain Wins the First 2008 Presidential Debate and the Election
http://voices.yahoo.com/mccain-wins-first-2008-presidential-debate-and-1988761.html
 

Jae A. (323)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 2:38 am
I did not watch them Carol..and my reason is shown above in my comment ....these debates aren't worth much unless a huge blunder is made by one or the there and that seldom has happened and for sure it didn't this time either. I did watch the local news afterwards which had an equal number from each side give their opinions ...both of course said their choice did best but both sides also said that , to my surprise that both held their own so they enjoyed them.

According to that article about how "McCain won in the first debate in 2008 ' I'd say you are the one blubbering incoherant B.S.
 

Jae A. (323)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 2:58 am
So I'm asking just how does this effect the votes after the debate in your opinions? ..and again, what's you point here,especialy when one looks back at the 2008 rightwings declarations of McCains winning the first debate...that this means Romney will no doubt lose ? Which I think he will, as it's my opinion that he teabaggers cost McCain his chances just as they're doing for Romney. Did it ever dawn on you after the 2008 one that Obama just might have a pretty good stradigy going when it comes to debates...I doubt it did but you might pause and give that some thought before you waste to much confetti ...

More as to that win of the first debate, which we all know what the end results were after the last one and for sure by election day in 2008

McCain Wins the First 2008 Presidential Debate and the Election
http://voices.yahoo.com/mccain-wins-first-2008-presidential-debate-and-1988761.html

John McCain Wins First Presidential Debate
http://voices.yahoo.com/john-mccain-wins-first-presidential-debate-1989447.html?cat=75

John McCain wins first presidential debate!
http://ztruth.typepad.com/ztruth/2008/09/john-mccain-wins-debate.html

McCain wins first debate by a landslide according to poll!
http://www.t-g.com/blogs/stevemills/entry/21024/
 

Jae A. (323)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 3:33 am
...look for that zombie in your own mirror Carol...the facts of the 2008 debated can not be ignored as to this first debate.

Carol, you should know by now that personal insults in my direction will not hinder or slow down my comments/opinion postings on any thread I care to post them on...besides, I've come to expect nothing more from you or any teabagger for that matter ...The facts of the first debate in 2008, the facts that Romney religion goes against all other christian religions beliefs as Romney lord and savior is Josheph Smith, along with the proven facts world wide that Austerity ruins economies,along the fact that Romney is another Republican who will follow the same path as Dubya only with a more serious dismanteling of everything that helps keep the economy stronge , in order to see huge profits for his corporate buds and himself,and is most likely to try and start another corporate war for profits in the opinion of mnay as well as my own.... Add all this together..and well , I wouldn't look for the outcome the day after the election to show who won to be any different than in 2008 as to who will be the President...again..

 

JL A. (275)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 5:59 am
Romney was so rude to both Lehrer and the President that he offended me by his unwillingness to abide by the rules of the debate he had agreed to--insisting on last word when it wasn't his turn so that the debate did not cover all the intended subjects--so we all (public and voters) were the losers from the content he avoided us getting to hear.
 

Jae A. (323)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 6:05 am
You cannot currently send a star to J.L. ......;-( ...but I can give my kudos for that comment J.L.A. I think the moderates on all sides felt the same as you describe and they are the majority, not the extremist on either side.
 

John Gregoire (254)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 6:40 am
JLA and JAe, what kind of BS are you spouting this morning! Obama was narcissitic, rude, not at easy and haughty. he looked like Bush senior back then when he couldn't wait to leave. I thought both men were civil but Obama seemed to be on his spin campaign and kept referring to the same made up "facts" which are BS. Romney landed several good blows including one which made Obama flinch three times! That was when he noted the 90 Billion wasted on Solyndra, etc -companies owned by Obama supporters! I think Romney won big time and I am not a tea bagger Jae!
 

Carrie B. (309)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 1:46 pm
You are right Carol. Romney won last night. He should be awarded a golden Pinocchio for being the most blatant liar since Bush and Cheney took us to war based on lies. I don't believe the majority of the American people want another president who does nothing but lie.

The only thing that has changed since last night's debate is that now a greater number of people are aware of Romney-the-Liar, and Romney has painted himself into a very small corner.
 

Brian M. (145)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 1:48 pm
Carol probably won't admit that the Holocaust happened any more than her friends at this news story have:
http://www.care2.com/news/member/430788953/3464182
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 2:02 pm
Jae..Well that says it all the fact you didn't watch them! Intentional ignorance I call it...you could have learned something from watching them!! You could have learned how incompetent the man is that you keep supporting you could have learned how smart Romney is on the issues..you could have learned a lot of things so you would not have to blabber on so much about BS that has no value at all!! And remember Jae...this is 2012...now you are going to tell me that what happened in 2008 is going to happen in 2012 just because it happened once!? So intelligent and you couldn't even get yourself to watch the debates to face the inevitable truth!!! Denial denial denial!! I think you will see a re-run of 2010...:-) And I can't wait to hear all of the same excuses and nonsense...NOT!! it will just be a good feeling to know that uninformed people who voted for this idiot finally has to face facts that he is a LOSER!!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 2:07 pm
JL A...What you said was so full of lies...just like what the so called President says!!!!! IF you were paying attention at the debates the last person to speak was chosen BY A FLIP OF A COIN and Romney preferred to speak LAST...GOT IT!! Get your damn facts straight and stop the baby whining!!! The only losers of that debate was Obama and those who didn't like the outcome...in other words their crook didn't win so they are calling UNFAIR...Give me a break!!! What a bunch of sore losers!!! And as a matter a fact Obama had about 5 minutes MORE time speaking than Obama did so put that in your pipe and smoke it!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 2:10 pm
Dream on Carrie!! Stick your head further in the sand!!! I would probably say something stupid like that too IF I believed in the liar in chief!! ROTFL...thank goodness I don't though!! :-)
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 2:13 pm
Brian...Only an Obama sheeple would come up with an idiotic comment/accusation like that!!! You are truly unreal!! ROTFL!!! But thanks for adding the note to Carol's GREAT story...blacks are finally waking up and seeing just who it is that cares about them and it's not the Democrats!!!!!!!!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 2:16 pm
This comment from above here...

And as a matter a fact Obama had about 5 minutes MORE time speaking than Obama did so put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Should have read...Obama had 5 minutes more than ROMNEY did in speaking.......
 

Robert K. (31)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 5:28 pm
As the Sun-Times put it, "Romney wins on style, Obama on facts."
 

Robert K. (31)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 5:29 pm
Yep, Romney, 27 outright lies in 38 minutes and you want that scumbag as a president?
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 7:06 pm
On Facts Obama lost even more. Now we see that Romney not only has a chance, but has a better chance.

Obama is known to be a good professor, and let him do what he knows how to do.
 

Robert S. (115)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 7:15 pm
For pundits checking boxes -- who gave the appearance of being "in control"? -- Romney excelled.

But all of this overlooks an element I like to think it sometimes important: substance. The men on the stage last night aren't actors; they're candidates for the nation's highest office. Delivering lines well is a nice quality, but as the dust settles, it's worth pausing to reflect on whether those lines were true and reflect reality in any meaningful way.

Indeed, it seems to me Romney thrived in large part because he abandoned the pretense of honesty. And as it turns out, winning a debate is surprisingly easy when a candidate decides he can say anything and expect to get away with it.

Romney told viewers his proposed $5 trillion tax cut isn't really his proposed $5 trillion tax cut. He suggested he could eliminate a $1 trillion deficit by going after Big Bird. He said his non-existent health care plan protects those with pre-existing conditions when in reality the exact opposite is true. He cited trumped up "studies" from far-right ideologues as if they're legitimate, assuming the public won't know the difference. He said a deficit that's shrunk has actually "doubled."

And when Romney wasn't repeating falsehoods, he was furiously shaking an Etch A Sketch, rolling out yet another version of himself.

This new model -- version 8.0? 9.0? -- likes regulations of the financial industry, wants to work with Democrats, thinks his Massachusetts health care law was a great idea, and has no use for the goals of his running mate's budget plan that Romney enthusiastically endorsed. Does this in any way reflect the candidate who's been running for president the last year and a half? No, but the Republican assumes most voters won't realize and most news organizations covering the campaign won't tell them.

He might very well be right.

But as Romney and his supporters take a victory lap this morning, it's fair to note their success was a triumph for style over substance.

By Steve Benen

Pundits from both sides of the aisle have lauded Mitt Romney’s strong debate performance, praising his preparedness and ability to challenge President Obama’s policies and accomplishments. But Romney only accomplished this goal by repeatedly misleading viewers. He spoke for 38 minutes of the 90 minute debate and told at least 27 myths:

1) “[G]et us energy independent, North American energy independent. That creates about 4 million jobs”. Romney’s plan for “energy independence” actually relies heavily on a study that assumes the U.S. continues with fuel efficiency standards set by the Obama administration. For instance, he uses Citigroup research based off the assumption that “‘the United States will continue with strict fuel economy standards that will lower its oil demand.” Since he promises to undo the Obama administration’s new fuel efficiency standards, he would cut oil consumption savings of 2 million barrels per day by 2025.

2) “I don’t have a $5 trillion tax cut. I don’t have a tax cut of a scale that you’re talking about.” A Tax Policy Center analysis of Romney’s proposal for a 20 percent across-the-board tax cut in all federal income tax rates, eliminating the Alternative Minimum Tax, eliminating the estate tax and other tax reductions, would reduce federal revenue $480 billion in 2015. This amount to $5 trillion over the decade.

3) “My view is that we ought to provide tax relief to people in the middle class. But I’m not going to reduce the share of taxes paid by high-income people.” If Romney hopes to provide tax relief to the middle class, then his $5 trillion tax cut would add to the deficit. There are not enough deductions in the tax code that primarily benefit rich people to make his math work.

4) “My — my number-one principal is, there will be no tax cut that adds to the deficit. I want to underline that: no tax cut that adds to the deficit.” As the Tax Policy Center concluded, Romney’s plan can’t both exempt middle class families from tax cuts and remain revenue neutral. “He’s promised all these things and he can’t do them all. In order for him to cover the cost of his tax cut without adding to the deficit, he’d have to find a way to raise taxes on middle income people or people making less than $200,000 a year,” the Center found.

5) “I will not under any circumstances raise taxes on middle-income families. I will lower taxes on middle-income families. Now, you cite a study. There are six other studies that looked at the study you describe and say it’s completely wrong.” The studies Romney cites actually further prove that Romney would, in fact, have to raise taxes on the middle class if he were to keep his promise not to lose revenue with his tax rate reduction.

6) “I saw a study that came out today that said you’re going to raise taxes by $3,000 to $4,000 on middle-income families.” Romney is pointing to this study from the American Enterprise Institute. It actually found that rather than raise taxes to pay down the debt, the Obama administration’s policies — those contained directly in his budget — would reduce the share of taxes that go toward servicing the debt by $1,289.89 per taxpayer in the $100,000 to $200,000 range.

7) “And the reason is because small business pays that individual rate; 54 percent of America’s workers work in businesses that are taxed not at the corporate tax rate, but at the individual tax rate….97 percent of the businesses are not — not taxed at the 35 percent tax rate, they’re taxed at a lower rate. But those businesses that are in the last 3 percent of businesses happen to employ half — half of all the people who work in small business.” Far less than half of the people affected by the expiration of the upper income tax cuts get any of their income at all from a small businesses. And those people could very well be receiving speaking fees or book royalties, which qualify as “small business income” but don’t have a direct impact on job creation. It’s actually hard to find a small business who think that they will be hurt if the marginal tax rate on income earned above $250,000 per year is increased.

8) “Mr. President, all of the increase in natural gas and oil has happened on private land, not on government land. On government land, your administration has cut the number of permits and licenses in half.” Oil production from federal lands is higher, not lower: Production from federal lands is up slightly in 2011 when compared to 2007. And the oil and gas industry is sitting on 7,000 approved permits to drill, that it hasn’t begun exploring or developing.

9) “The president’s put it in place as much public debt — almost as much debt held by the public as all prior presidents combined.” This is not even close to being true. When Obama took office, the national debt stood at $10.626 trillion. Now the national debt is over $16 trillion. That $5.374 trillion increase is nowhere near as much debt as all the other presidents combined.

10) “That’s why the National Federation of Independent Businesses said your plan will kill 700,000 jobs. I don’t want to kill jobs in this environment.” That study, produced by a right-wing advocacy organization, doesn’t analyze what Obama has actually proposed.

11) “What we do have right now is a setting where I’d like to bring money from overseas back to this country.” Romney’s plan to shift the country to a territorial tax system would allow corporations to do business and make profits overseas without ever being taxed on it in the United States. This encourages American companies to invest abroad and could cost the country up to 800,000 jobs.

12) “I would like to take the Medicaid dollars that go to states and say to a state, you’re going to get what you got last year, plus inflation, plus 1 percent, and then you’re going to manage your care for your poor in the way you think best.” Sending federal Medicaid funding to the states in the form of a block grant woud significantly reduce federal spending for Medicaid because the grant would not keep up with projected health care costs. A CBO estimate of a very similar proposal from Paul Ryan found that federal spending would be “35 percent lower in 2022 and 49 percent lower in 2030 than current projected federal spending” and as a result “states would face significant challenges in achieving sufficient cost savings through efficiencies to mitigate the loss of federal funding.” “To maintain current service levels in the Medicaid program, states would probably need to consider additional changes, such as reducing their spending on other programs or raising additional revenues,” the CBO found.

13) “I want to take that $716 billion you’ve cut and put it back into Medicare…. But the idea of cutting $716 billion from Medicare to be able to balance the additional cost of Obamacare is, in my opinion, a mistake. There’s that number again. Romney is claiming that Obamacare siphons off $716 billion from Medicare, to the detriment of beneficiaries. In actuality, that money is saved primarily through reducing over-payments to insurance companies under Medicare Advantage, not payments to beneficiaries. Paul Ryan’s budget plan keeps those same cuts, but directs them toward tax cuts for the rich and deficit reduction.

14) “What I support is no change for current retirees and near-retirees to Medicare.” Here is how Romney’s Medicare plan will affect current seniors: 1) by repealing Obamacare, the 16 million seniors receiving preventive benefits without deductibles or co-pays and are saving $3.9 billion on prescription drugs will see a cost increase, 2) “premium support” will increase premiums for existing beneficiaries as private insurers lure healthier seniors out of the traditional Medicare program, 3) Romney/Ryan would also lower Medicaid spending significantly beginning next year, shifting federal spending to states and beneficiaries, and increasing costs for the 9 million Medicare recipients who are dependent on Medicaid.

15) “Number two is for people coming along that are young, what I do to make sure that we can keep Medicare in place for them is to allow them either to choose the current Medicare program or a private plan. Their choice. They get to choose — and they’ll have at least two plans that will be entirely at no cost to them.” The Medicare program changes for everyone, even people who choose to remain in the traditional fee-for-service. Rather than relying on a guaranteed benefit, all beneficiaries will receive a premium support credit of $7,500 on average in 2023 to purchase coverage in traditional Medicare or private insurance. But that amount will only grow at a rate of GDP plus 1.5 percentage points and will not keep up with health care costs. So while the federal government will spend less on the program, seniors will pay more in premiums.

16) “And, by the way the idea came not even from Paul Ryan or — or Senator Wyden, who’s the co-author of the bill with — with Paul Ryan in the Senate, but also it came from Bill — Bill Clinton’s chief of staff.” Romney has rejected the Ryan/Wyden approach — which does not cap the growth of the “premium support” subsidy. Bill Clinton and his commission also voted down these changes to the Medicare program.

17) “Well, I would repeal and replace it. We’re not going to get rid of all regulation. You have to have regulation. And there are some parts of Dodd-Frank that make all the sense in the world.” Romney has previously called for full repeal of Dodd-Frank, a law whose specific purpose is to regulate banks. MF Global’s use of customer funds to pay for its own trading losses is just one bit of proof that the financial industry isn’t responsible enough to protect consumers without regulation.

18) “But I wouldn’t designate five banks as too big to fail and give them a blank check. That’s one of the unintended consequences of Dodd-Frank… We need to get rid of that provision because it’s killing regional and small banks. They’re getting hurt.” The law merely says that the biggest, systemically risky banks need toabide by more stringent regulations. If those banks fail, they will be unwound by a new process in the Dodd-Frank law that protects taxpayers from having to pony up for a bailout.

19) “And, unfortunately, when — when — when you look at Obamacare, the Congressional Budget Office has said it will cost $2,500 a year more than traditional insurance. So it’s adding to cost.” Obamacare will actually provide millions of families with tax credits to make health care more affordable.

20) “[I]t puts in place an unelected board that’s going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have. I don’t like that idea.” The Board, or IPAB is tasked with making binding recommendations to Congress for lowering health care spending, should Medicare costs exceed a target growth rate. Congress can accept the savings proposal or implement its own ideas through a super majority. The panel’s plan will modify payments to providers but it cannot “include any recommendation to ration health care, raise revenues or Medicare beneficiary premiums…increase Medicare beneficiary cost-sharing (including deductibles, coinsurance, and co- payments), or otherwise restrict benefits or modify eligibility criteria” (Section 3403 of the ACA). Relying on health care experts rather than politicians to control health care costs has previously attracted bipartisan support and even Ryan himself proposed two IPAB-like structures in a 2009 health plan.

21) “Right now, the CBO says up to 20 million people will lose their insurance as Obamacare goes into effect next year. And likewise, a study by McKinsey and Company of American businesses said 30 percent of them are anticipating dropping people from coverage.” The Affordable Care Act would actually expand health care coverage to 30 million Americans, despite Romney fear mongering. According to CBO director Douglas Elmendorf, 3 million or less people would leave employer-sponsored health insurance coverage as a result of the law.

22) “I like the way we did it [health care] in Massachusetts…What were some differences? We didn’t raise taxes.” Romney raised fees, but he can claim that he didn’t increase taxes because the federal government funded almost half of his reforms.

23) “It’s why Republicans said, do not do this, and the Republicans had — had the plan. They put a plan out. They put out a plan, a bipartisan plan. It was swept aside.” The Affordable Care Act incorporates many Republican ideas including the individual mandate, state-based health care exchanges, high-risk insurance pools, and modified provisions that allow insurers to sell policies in multiple states. Republicans never offered a united bipartisan alternative.

24) “Preexisting conditions are covered under my plan.” Only people who arecontinuously insured would not be discriminated against because they suffer from pre-existing conditions. This protection would not be extended to people who are currently uninsured.

25) “In one year, you provided $90 billion in breaks to the green energy world. Now, I like green energy as well, but that’s about 50 years’ worth of what oil and gas receives.” The $90 billion was given out over several years and included loans, loan guarantees and grants through the American Recovery Act. $23 billion of the $90 billion “went toward “clean coal,” energy-efficiency upgrades, updating the electricity grid and environmental clean-up, largely for old nuclear weapons sites.”

26) “I think about half of [the green firms Obama invested in], of the ones have been invested in have gone out of business. A number of them happened to be owned by people who were contributors to your campaigns.” As of late last year, only “three out of the 26 recipients of 1705 loan guarantees have filed for bankruptcy, with losses estimated at just over $600 million.”

27) “If the president’s reelected you’ll see dramatic cuts to our military.” Romney is referring to the sequester, which his running mate Paul Ryan supported. Obama opposes the military cuts and has asked Congress to formulate a balanced approach that would avoid the trigger.

By Igor Volsky
 

Cam V. (417)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 7:46 pm
Quit spamming our threads with your garbage Robert. Right on Bob! ROMNEY/ RYAN 2012!!!!
 

Robert S. (115)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 7:59 pm
OUR threads. Who is we....Cam? Sorry (not) for injecting some fact into your mindless revelry. What took a beating last night, was the truth. Americans who aren't inbred Baggers know that and I don't give a crap what a silly man with a Pinocchio nose who can't vote because he's not an American thinks about it.
 

Laura H. (880)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 8:50 pm
"Quit spamming our threads with your garbage Robert." How DARE you Cam! What about FREE speech?
You are a hypocrite.
In case you haven't noticed, Care2 is a progressive site; why you are here God only knows.
Since President Obama took office the right wingnuts have gone out of their way to post lies, hate, and propaganda here. It's fine to have another opinion but the garbage you spew is nothing but HATE AND LIES.
"The President wasn't born in America; he is not a Christian..he is a mulsim...he apologizes." blah blah BLAH .It's all code for 'the guy is black but we can't admit that's what bothers us so let's make up some total crap about him and keep repeating it over and over so the weak minded believe it-let's make him THE OTHER...not one of US,' The republicans got together the first day that President Obama was in office and vowed to make him a ONE TERM PRESIDENT. The country be damned.They put their party ahead of the country; they are TRAITORS.
And lately, ever since the 47% Romney video came out-so did the multiple accounts and trolls on Care2. Where are their comments? Where are their profiles? WHY do they ALWAYS note EVERY single tea bagger story? Pathetic and desperate.
I am tired of people like you disrespecting the office of the President Of The United States. Disagree with the President? That is your right. But you need to have respect for the OFFICE. You claim to care and want to be fair; then why do you post photos of the POTUS as a monkey, as Hitler, and the Joker, etc.? It's vile and disgusting and simply proves that tea baggers are racist and filled with hate.

Isn't there any damn politics in Canada?
 

Michael Carney (209)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 9:45 pm
Wow! I see all the Rupublican cockroaches came out of the woodwork tonight...but when the light come back on, you'll all scatter back into the darkness of your misery, that an Educated Black Man is President, and will be President again after Nov. 6th...So celebrate this little blurb in the road tonight...I give Mitt his props for last night, however the bar was set so low, and the expectations were so low for him, that him getting his name correct, and not choking himself on that low bar, was enough for you sad pathetic haters to proclaim victory...So enjoy, as they say even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in the while, and Mitt found his nut last evening...But that's as far as it'll go...Obama will crush him on Nov. 6th...And you all know it...
 

Cam V. (417)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 10:23 pm
He is not promoting comments BUT spam Laura 'Vegan". That is the only word for what he doing. Just read Obama's superpac is pulling back from running ads in Florida and Wisconsin. Does not sound like WINNING to me.
 

Michael Carney (209)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 10:42 pm
I think you're reading some right wing propaganda there, Cam, Obama is leading in both Wisconsin and Florida, so why on Earth would they pull money out of those States...I guess you can dream though...
 

jo M. (3)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 11:06 pm
Really, Laura? You and Michael are really going to fall back on the same old tired, ignorant, hatemongering nonsense that Republicans are only against Obama because his heritage is half black? Is that why you so-called progressives hate Romney, because he is white? See how stupid that sounds? It's all about politics, my dear. And do you really think someone need be a tea-partier to support Romney over Obama? Of course they don't, but you want to label them all that way because then you can spew your venom against a group of people you've been conditioned to despise through constant vile propaganda. I've seen way more despicable comments here aimed at Romney than Obama, and who can forget all the ugliness aimed at GW Bush. Was that respecting the office of President? I think the "progressives" should think hard about cleaning up their own act before accusing others of being racist and hate-filled.
 

Esther Z. (101)
Thursday October 4, 2012, 11:37 pm
Personally, I'm very glad President Obama lost the debate last night. The President and his staff were getting to complacent, too cocky and not paying enough attention to all the muck Romney and his clowns keep spewing to anyone willing to listen to their lies. With all the right out lies, the voter suppression, the hundreds of millions given to anyone (and that includes some blue Dems.) willing to sell their country for extreme right wing ideology, well, getting too confident would be a huge mistake. The polls show NO loss in points for the President, and yes there was a 10% increase for Romney, but that was ONLY among Republicans. The Independents are still sittin on the fence. So easy does it, winning one debate does not make Romney the president, just a very prepared and lucky flim-flam man.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Friday October 5, 2012, 12:42 am
Esther, Robert, Michael, and Laura....You may as well save your propaganda and lies for those on the left so you can all pat each other on the back and tell each other how great and right you are because here it is just more nonsensical BS..I don't even read it and I think most people with an actual brain that uses it to THINK feel the same way and do the same thing! Bury your heads deeper in the sand!!! LOL

jo...You said it!! Everything you said is right on!! And Cam you are right..it is just spamming it with nonsensical idiotic propaganda that is truly pure lies! Some people will continue to kiss Obama's A*S no matter how much Obama uses them and is laughing at them behind their backs and if they can't see his intent to destroy this country and lie outright to the American people they will never see it. Some people you can actually pity..but these people are just downright SAD!! No pity for them will do any good!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Friday October 5, 2012, 12:45 am
Bob..You are right too!! The only facts that Obama gives are the facts of lies. And Ohio is going to Romney too..that's a big one!
 

Robert S. (115)
Friday October 5, 2012, 5:21 am
Carol said,

"I don't even read it and I think most people with an actual brain that uses it to THINK feel the same way and do the same thing! Bury your heads deeper in the sand!!!"

By this, you have made it clear...that you do not read data put before you, and that your version of "thinking" involves getting lots of sand in your ears. "I don't ever read it", DEFINES what it is to put ones head in that hole, pour in cement and die an ignorant ranting fool.

Love your Avatars Carol and Cam. It sure are better than looking at the old ones. Uh...makes me shudder to think about it.
 
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