Wednesday July 1, 2009, 3:58 pm
Michael Scheuer on Fox: America's only hope is for
another terrorist attack


Good God. They really are wishing and hoping for a terrorist attack.

Michael Scheuer, on Glenn Beck's show last night:

Scheuer: The only chance we have as a country right now is for Osama bin Laden to deploy and detonate a major weapon in the United States. Because it's going to take a grass-roots, bottom-up pressure. Because these politicians prize their office, prize the praise of the media and the Europeans. It's an absurd situation again. Only Osama can execute an attack which will force Americans to demand that their government protect them effectively, consistently, and with as much violence as necessary.

Beck: Which is why, I was thinking this weekend, if I were him, that would be the last thing I would do right now.

I guess the wingnuts have given up the pretense of decency and normalcy. Now they're rooting for another terrorist attack, so that we stoopid Americans will finally WAKE UP! to the nature of the evil that conspires against us ...

Actually, we're becoming quite awake indeed. And it isn't bin Laden

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 4:22 pm
Actual enacted and thwarted acts, of right wing terrorism,have occured in the USA and also UK in recent times.
I feel that these acts cannot be put down,to simple mental instability.No this has not occured in a social and political vacuum.In the case of the US talk radio haters,and news channels have banged the drum ,and blown the bugle rallying the angry and twisted brigade.."we've gotta stop em"seems to be Glenn Becks cry.No he has never said "pick up a gun"..but seriously he couldn't use those words...The right in essence has failed to strongly and unequivacably condemn the extremists.
Sadly much religion in the US,has a very unChristian feel about it,and with a black President in the Whitehouse,some of these hate fuelled extremists are willing to take matters into their own hands.
In the UK,the neo-fascists don't have a strong religious element to their hatred,but support for neo-nazis has been growing these last few years.Sadly our own media,has fuelled some of the hate..We have several newspapers,amongst them Rupert Murdoch's The Sun,which have a very very strong right wing voice,which tell lies and partial truths about asylum seekers,gypsies,immigrants and racial minorities..we also have a system which has forgotten the poorest people,and some of the white section of that group,are being misled into beleiving, that immigration and ethnicity, are the forces which make life more difficult for them.
As we continue to suffer from the recession created by the greedmongers,this could get even worse in the UK.
Be vigilant of the growth of fascism,and the conditions and systems,which spawn and nurture it.

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 4:55 pm
Noted with many thanks Dearest Panda.
Love,
Black Dalia:)

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 5:19 pm
Great post. Noted with thanks Panda.

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 5:30 pm
"Be vigilant of the growth of fascism,and the conditions and systems,which spawn and nurture it."

I'm more concerned about extreme reactionaries and fear-mongerers.

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 5:54 pm

After six long years of occupation, Iraqis can finally celebrate the initial withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraqi cities and towns. But the road to complete U.S. military withdrawal from Iraq is still long and uncertain. Email President Obama and tell him to implement the spirit, as well as the letter of the Status of Forces Agreement. We want a total and complete withdrawal, not just changes in job categories!
 
Here are some other useful points you can mention in your message to the White House:

Follow through with the 18 month withdrawal plan that would remove all the US troops before the SOFA 2012 deadline.  
President Obama said, "Going forward, the United States will pursue principled and sustained engagement with all nations in the region, including Iran and Syria." It's time to escalate diplomacy, not combat operations!
The United States should also take the same path out of Afghanistan: stop escalating, focus on diplomacy, and withdraw US troops now!
Veto any future supplemental war spending!

 
***************************************
As I was making final preparations to announce complaints against CIA lawyers who facilitated torture, the New Yorker reported that an Iraqi was crucified to death.
 
He died with his ribs broken, head covered in a bag, and being held up by his two arms.
The forensic pathologist who reported the death described it as a homicide.
No one has been indicted. It is not even clear if there was any investigation to discover who was responsible for the murder.
Human Rights Watch reports that 98 people died in U.S. custody in Iraq and Afghanistan. They also note that we do not know what happened to many other people in custody. They seem to have disappeared.
Monday, at a press conference in Washington, D.C. (video here), we announced complaints against three intelligence agency lawyers who were aggressive advocates of torture, who facilitated torture with their law license. See media coverage here.
Two of these lawyers are still working in the Obama administration, CIA Acting General Counsel John Rizzo and an attorney for the National Director of Intelligence, Jonathan Fredman. Click here to urge Obama to remove these lawyers from office.
 
 

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 6:07 pm

And what are you suggesting is the answer to these "right wing extremists?"

That we let this government decided who should -- or shouldn't -- be permitted to have freedom of speech?

Are you saying that the listening public is too "fragile" to dissect hate speech and discern right and wrong on their own, without intervention?

Do you understand the meaning of the word "fascism?"

From Merriam-Webster:
"1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control "

Notice that both instances refer to "dictatorial control," which applies to government -- NOT separatist groups.

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 6:10 pm

I strongly oppose any hint of censorship, and am even more frightened of any person or group who proposes using "silencing" as a form of control -- no matter WHAT side they pretend to represent.

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 6:15 pm

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists,
And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists,
And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews,
And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . .
And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
~Pastor Martin Niemoller

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 7:06 pm
It seems pretty obvious JC that there is a section of the public, who cannot discern hate speech from reason..i'm not sure how that can be denied?Why do you seek to paint the general public as being ultra-reasonable,socially conscious and politically articulate?Many people aren't..and that is a result of many many factors,from underfunded education ,mass media agendas,disempowerment etc etc.i've talked to them,worked with them etc..and yep there are a few clueless dicks out there.
There has been an upsurge in recent times,of the far right taking matters into their own hands literally..resulting in the slayings of innocent people.At what point does that become an issue worth discussing for you Carole?When do you suggest that we stop turning away from the brutality of racism?homophobia?The nazi's started off small..and then "bang"there they were in power..after many prominent voices from the left,right and centre had talked of having more important issues to deal with.That was a huge mistake..and we must never allow ourselves to repeat that.
Yes I do understand the meaning of the word "fascism"..and in its strictest sense it refers only to that particular regime of Mussolini ( "fascism is not for export" he said )..but we can also use it to refer to sympathisers of autocracy..who usually possess sccompanying views of race hate,discrimination against minorities.I try to use the term neo-fascist,rather than facsist,but hey I don't always get it right.
In this sense I used it to describe right wing terrorists ,who set out to silence all opposing views,and whose support is for a dictatorial autocratic neo-fascist government.
Yes the present system has elements of fascism,particularly in regard to oligarchal control,and the fact that democracy is largely an illusion.
I would still rather live under a Labour Government than a British National Party government-and please please don't tell me that there would be no difference..
No I do not beleive that it is only governments, who are capable of anti-democratic and oppressive acts.The far right have always beleived in taking their war onto the streets,to physically attack those with dissenting voices,people of different colour and anyone who they deem to be "different".With actual governmental power,they would seek to deny all democratic rights,as we have seen under actual fascist regimes from Italy to Spain and Germany.These groups define themselves behind closed doors as neo-fascists..and act as the fascists acted before seizing power.It looks like it,smells like it,and sounds like it..so lets call it what it is eh.
If we do not have some awareness of history,and the present warning signs,then we will all be condemned to see history repeated.
I do not propose the banning of right wing groups..no that is a slippery slope..I propose that we counter their propaganda,set up our own media outlets,fight the disinformation of the right wing media.The divide and rule (ie persuading whites that black people are the problem) tactic has historically been used to shift blame away from their machinations..those which have created the adverse economic conditions in the first place.
We also need to fight for better wages,employment rights,jobs etc that will erode the negative material conditions which are proven to give rise to fascism.
Also challenging the oligarchs grip on power is vital,with real democracy people feel more control over their lives.
What I do not suggest,is ignoring such activity on the far right.I have spent roughly 25 years of my life,marching ,fighting,reading,educating and campaigning against fascists..so don't tell me that I don't know what it means.
As for Iraq..you don't have to tell me about the horrors of that hideous military intervention.Is it not possible that there are many issues ,many wrongs to fight?Perhaps we should ignore climate change,poverty,domestic violence or workplace deaths as they aren't about Iraq..?I beleive that it is vital to fight oppression,slavery,abuse etc wherever it exists..and in whichever form.
I beleive that the victims of right wing terrorism,and their families find this pretty real,and i'd imagine that the gay community in the UK who were terrified regarding the london Nail Bomber,weren't able to brush it under the carpet.No these are violent,injurious,murderous acts,committed against the minorities that fascists always target..lives were lost and broken,communities lived in fear,as other right wing extremists laughed and were inspired by it.


These other causes,are still a result of the same factors as spawned the Iraq War,or right wing terrorism..too much power and money in the hands of a tiny elite,who spread their agenda through their propagandist media organs.This is fascism-lite in essence..and the source of much of the worlds pain,through their organisations such as the IMF G20 etc.

Am I mistaken Carole,or are your posts starting to sound like something, from the conspiracy obsessed and slightly dogmatic Prison Planet..?

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 7:25 pm
No censorship?Does that mean an unregulated internet?As regards t net,I oppose the posting of child porn,sexually abusive videos (ie involving people forced to be there),the selling of items related to these activities,and anything which encourages or promotes those things.I also oppose animal abusers and killers posting their shit on the net,as it encourages further abuse..Does that make me a scary authoritarian?
I'd say i'm challenging oppression,exploitation and cruelty.If being anti-censorship means accepting the right to post such stuff,then i'd say that those people are being nieve.
Like most ideologies,complete libertarianism does not work in its extreme form.
One of the greatest writers "On Liberty"was the English philosopher John Stuart Mill..however he opposed those acts which restrict or deny the liberties of others..recognising that if all people gave free vent to their wants and desires,then others would suffer .Right wing philosophy is based around complete liberty for only a few..and in reality the denial of real rights and power for the masses ,particularly the marginalised and least powerful..thats not the liberty i'd like to see..as it is oppression,and not liberty.
Full liberty means an empowerment of all,with rights and safeguards for each person,and is based around society and the individual,not just a few powerful individuals,with wealth influence and access to power.

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 7:27 pm

"Am I mistaken Carole,or are your posts starting to sound like something, from the conspiracy obsessed and slightly dogmatic Prison Planet..?"

Hmmmmmmmm . . . I was about to ask if you had been brainwashed.

Guess it's all a matter of opinion, huh? As for me, I'll put my money on the rights of the populace to hear opposing views and make independent decisions, rather than to allow any government to decide what is worthy of hearing -- I think the expense of loss of independent thought, left to be patrolled by government(s) who've already shown a tendency toward fascism, is much too high a price to pay.

Perhaps, for you -- that would not be a great loss -- but again, while I still have the right to voice my opinion, that would be it.

Ad hominem remarks are a sure sign of lack of intelligent discourse.

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 7:40 pm
I'm not sure where I expressed a desire to take away independent thought Carole,or where I expressed a trust in our present governments..which largely operate as the executive arm of big business (with some minimal ameliorating influence from other organised groups-ie organised labour,when it was more powerful,or campaign groups).I am happy to fight that power.
My wish to keep tabs on potentially and actual terroristic groups, and individuals ,without silencing them,nor denying anyone due process,or even freedom to protest is hardly Orwellian..

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 7:44 pm

Have you REALLY thought this through???

Are you honestly saying that you would agree to allow a governmental agency to decide for the population what it SHOULD or SHOULD NOT hear????

People who believe that their government is the best judge of what should be known or said, and who also believe that the majority of their fellow citizens have are FRIGHTENING. Further, people who insist on applying generic labels to people are too. I, personally, do not know ANYONE who fits into a stereotypical category such as right, left, centrist, etc. on ALL arguments.

And, NO, I do not want my life "simplified" or my fought-for right of freedom of expression to be controlled by anyone who may have a vested interest in controlling my speech.

I am shocked to even read this!

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 7:45 pm

"My wish to keep tabs on potentially and actual terroristic groups, and individuals ,without silencing them,nor denying anyone due process,or even freedom to protest is hardly Orwellian.."

And WHO are you proposing should keep those tabs????????

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 7:55 pm

My suggestion? That the people who have (at least on the surface) elected the "known terrorists" (namely, their government officials) start, not only keeping some tabs on their actions, but exercising some power of their own by letting THEM know that their behavior is unacceptable.

But, instead, YOU want to give THEM permission and even further power by REQUESTING that these already power-crazed dictators scrutinize your fellow citizens! (You must be a wet-dream to them!)

*rolling eyes*

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 8:09 pm

Thank you for providing this forum, Panda, and for allowing me to speak my peace (before *I* get branded by some appointed "tab-keeper" who decides that my opinions might incite inappropriate thinking or behavior).

Good evening, all!

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 8:18 pm

Just found this in my email -- yeah, I really want these folks to "keep tabs" on dangerous citizens:

 
ACLU Says Government Used False Confessions 02 Jul 2009 The American Civil Liberties Union yesterday accused the Obama administration of using statements elicited through torture to justify the confinement of a detainee it represents at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The ACLU is asking a federal judge to throw out those statements and others made by Mohammed Jawad, an Afghan who may have been as young as 12 when he was captured. His attorney argued that Jawad was abused in U.S. custody, threatened and subjected to intense sleep deprivation. "The government's continued reliance on evidence gained by torture and other abuse violates centuries of U.S. law and suggests the current administration is not really serious about breaking with the past," said ACLU lawyer Jonathan Hafetz, who is representing Jawad in a lawsuit challenging his detention.

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 8:22 pm
Rejecting left right and centre as concepts,is just another Alex Jonesism Carole.Where is that independent thought ?At least my thoughts and concepts are my own.
Yes I would like governments (or anyone else really) to take child porn off the internet..given a choice i'd take government censorship of child porn/animal abuse over the laissez-faire approach you are advocating.I'm glad that you have freedom Carole..those victims don't .
As for keeping tabs on fascists,we don't live in an ideal world,we live in a world where the US government is happy to let neo-nazis serve in the armed forces.I'd rather the government represented the will of an educated,informed and enlightened electorate..and wasn't so authoritarian..but thats not the case.
What I am proposing is that us the people,the unions,anti-fascist groups etc do not nievely ignore the threat of fascism.
We do that by exposing them,taking on their arguments,fighting to improve the economic disparity and gross inequality and hopelessness that gives rise to popularisation of fascism.
However if my government chooses to infiltrate neo-nazi extremist groups,then I have no problem with that..no one is stopping the nazi-dicks being nazi-dicks.I just wish my government was a more democratic entity..it is not..but given the choice between that government and neo-nazis I know which I would choose.
What you seem to be suggesting Carole,is that we ignore them..History shows that to be unrealistic,inevitably disastorous,ultimately impossible and incredibly nieve.
I didnt mention stopping anyone hearing anything..I did mention stopping anyone butchering people on the basis of race etc..am I being authoritarian by not letting them blow up or murder people?
Am I not allowed to expose and highlight the causes and dangers of neo-fascism?Or am I being authoritarian in wishing to challenge groups and individuals ,who have an objective of setting up a world without rights .Do we wait until the gas chambers are being built?
You havent told me,whether you would keep child and animal abuse off the internet Carole?
Nor how we challenge racism and neo-fascism?
You use words like shocked Carole..I think that because my views don't comply with your puritanical libertarianism,that you jump to conclusions about what I am and am not saying.
You seem to be happy for evil to fester ,and do nothing about it.

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 8:26 pm

For the first time, I am SO GLAD our comments crossed. (And you were saying about fascism??????) And you still haven't answered as to WHOM you would give this surveillance power. (Wanna talk about naive?)

(And by the way, I am not an Alex Jones fan, and I do not watch Faux News, and I have no religious or political party affiliation.)

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 8:40 pm
"Am I not allowed to expose and highlight the causes and dangers of neo-fascism?Or am I being authoritarian in wishing to challenge groups and individuals ,who have an objective of setting up a world without rights .Do we wait until the gas chambers are being built?"
 
Are you completely unaware that the U.S. government (for a fact -- and probably the U.K.) ALREADY have secret prisons???  And you don't think THAT is fascist?
 
EXCLUSIVE: Animal Rights Activist Jailed at Secretive Prison Gives First Account
 
"You havent told me,whether you would keep child and animal abuse off the internet Carole?"
 
You're stretching it, Panda.  I am a well-known activist against child abuse, and in fact, was a volunteer child abuse counselor.
 
 
 

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 8:53 pm

And, for the record, the day I posted the exclusive about the animal rights activist, it was also featured here on Care2 in their human rights cause section.

Right now, in the United States, unwarranted wiretapping is already being conducted, and immunity has been granted to the companies who act on behalf of the governmental agency requesting same. That is a violation of constitutional rights here.

Are YOU stating that "suspicion" of wrong-doing merits suspension of legal rights? And, by whose definition? What is the point of having laws to protect the rights of ANYONE, if those rights can be waived by casting doubt?

This is sounding very much like Vichy politics. (You know, the French who were more than eager to collaborate with the Gestapo to curry their favor.)

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 9:17 pm

Are you also aware that this country's Department of Homeland Security has also issued a report stating that the following (incomplete, because I can't remember all of them) groups of people are also listed as potential targets for right-wing extremists seeking new members, who should possibly be scrutinized: homeless people, returning veterans, Ron Paul devotees, anyone encouraging others to read and understand their constitutional rights, pro-life advocates . . . basically, about 70% of the population.

When the report was "leaked," in fact, the government was so embarrassed (and veterans -- for good reason -- were so offended), that they issued an apology, and I'm sure, beefed up their security.

Do you know that most mainstream media is controlled by the government; and that it's not an error when things like that are "leaked?" (The report, itself, even states that they have discovered that, by merely mentioning that the government is surveilling certain groups, causes many members to "unjoin.") Do you understand that the "Fairness Doctrine" being promoted by certain legislators is actually a divisive way to put small, independent newscasters out of business -- thereby guaranteeing even more control of information. (It's about as "fair" as the Patriot Act was patriotic.)

And, if this government is so concerned about the welfare of its citizens, I'm hoping you can explain to me why it's so tough to convince them that, for a country of this much wealth, we rank VERY low as far as health care.

I would suggest that more world citizens look at the history of manipulation of their governments, and quit reacting to incendiary "news" like Pavlov's dogs. No one can assume power without followers.

I, personally, do not know even ONE person who would listen to the ignorant ravings of neo-Nazis and skinheads and extremists and do more than laugh or shake their heads. However, you are under the impression that the majority of people will be hypnotized into having no scruples or values after hearing them.

Perhaps, you need to give people more credit and quit giving these maniacs more credibility than they deserve.

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 9:34 pm


LINK: http://www.hippy.com/php/article-226.html

Hallmarks of a Fascist Regime

Hallmarks of a Fascist Regime
By Skip Stone
One leader who has nearly absolute control of government, despite pretense otherwise. There is no effective opposition to his policies.

All opposition held in check through various overt and covert means (although they go thru the motions of being an opposition).

Limited public debate about policies.

Control over media. Media only reports what government allows it to report. Covert Censorship.

Rigged Elections

Constant appeals to Patriotism with lots of flag waving. Flags and/or images of the Leader appear everywhere. Those who don't follow along are singled out and ridiculed.

Vocal Opponents end up dead under mysterious circumstances (Like Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, Paul Wellstone for example)

Leader passes laws giving himself even more powers

Controls the masses through Fear Mongering

Scapegoating. Certain class of people blamed for the problems the leader faces, justifying new laws and military actions.

Must have an ongoing war to keep people's minds off how f**ked their own government is.

No real policy to improve the lives of the average person.

Leader surrounded only by trusted friends and business people who profit handsomely.

Most actions favor insiders, friends and Corporate entities at the expense of the people. Laws that monitor and control business practices are removed.

Constantly preaching morality to the masses (to cover their own immoral actions)

Government involved in numerous illegal activities, all kept secret through various means.

Violates, disrespects or refuses to agree to World Conventions on Human Rights, international norms of conduct, and other laws. All manner of excuses offered.

Spy agencies given broad new powers and funding.

Government increases covert activities against its own citizens. Citizens are urged to spy on citizens.

Many civil liberties restricted or suspended.

An incredible amount of blood is spilled, with no obvious benefit except to those in power.

Does ANY of this sound familiar where you live?

Then YOU'RE LIVING under Fascism!

Some well known fascists:

Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Marcos, Saddam Hussein, Noriega, Suharto, Sukarno, Pinochet, Milosovich, Bush

Please note at one time or another most of these people were either trained or supported by the US government and had numerous business dealings with US corporations.

.

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 10:03 pm

(Duh, I should have thought of the 14 points of fascism myself.)

Glad your brain is operating more effectively than mine at this late hour, Jim.

Thank you!

Wednesday July 1, 2009, 10:54 pm
The government is not in any danger of getting to be facsist. It already IS facsist. My only question is how far they will take it.

Folks don't secretly arrest citizens and return them dead with no questions allowed unless they are already facsist. The Obama UADOJ's response to our FIOA regarding Larry's secret arrest and death is OVERDUE.

Have any of you considered H.R. 645 for six concentration camps to be built right here in America? How much nerve does it take to actually put forth a congressional bill and seek our tax money to build the camps?

Please read - http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/1181908

Thursday July 2, 2009, 12:25 am
Time to build a mass movement to democratise the USA.

Thursday July 2, 2009, 1:48 am
In the UK we have secret evidence, people accused without knowing what they have been accused of. They have been imprisoned and held under control order - the British form of house arrest. The government is complicit in torture and kidnapping across the world. We have peaceful demonstrators attacked and killed. We are filmed at demos quite blatantly. They have worked hand in glove with the Sun newspaper to vilify immigrants and refugees. They have introduced thought crimes. They wanted to saddle us with ID cards and the only reason for the back-down is they have no money - they have given trillions to the bankers to bail them out! They invaded, bombed and destroyed Afghanistan, invaded, bombed and destroyed Iraq. And this is a Labour Government. They have espoused the cause of neo-capitalism more heartily than the Tories and look at the disastrous results for ordinary people. They have betrayed us by being career politicians and pawns of big business and the USA. They have condemned us to probably decades of Tory rule. I hope they are wiped out at the next election so that the left can start again.

Thursday July 2, 2009, 2:01 am
Thanks, Carole, for the link to ask Obama to remove those 2 torture lawyers from office. They are the latest to be targeted by VotersForPeace and Velvet Revolution for their 'contributions' to US torture policies - the petition to disbar the original group of 12 is here:

DISBAR the DIRTY DOZEN, the Bush/Cheney Torture Lawyers - Velvet Revolution Video & Petition


I think that freedom of expression and freedom of speech do require curbing, if you'll excuse the expression, when the speech in question qualifies as incitement to hatred and violence.

White Supremacist Blogger, Arrested By FBI For Threatening To Kill Federal Judges, Tied To Fox News' Sean Hannity, Pat Buchanan

A summary of Hal Turner’s dangerous tirade against the judges, whose ruling to uphold a handguns ban in Chicago & a suburb sparked his outrage:
“Let me be the first to say this plainly: These Judges deserve to be killed.” The postings included photographs, phone numbers, work address and room numbers of these judges, along with a photo of the building in which they work and a map of its location. (he also promised his readers to come back with their home addresses!)

Turner’s posts also “referred to the murder of the mother and husband of Chicago-based federal Judge Joan Humphrey Lefkow in February 2005,” saying, “Apparently, the 7th U.S. Circuit Court didn’t get the hint after those killings. It appears another lesson is needed.”

Turner was already in trouble with the law. Earlier this month, he turned himself in to the Connecticut State Police on charges of “inciting violence” against three state officials. He urged his audience to “take up arms”!

My comment: The fact that there is a connection here between the expression of 1st-amendment-protected 'views' on national media, ie Fox, and the extremist fringe that is ready to take criminal action in defense of these 'views' does not come as a surprise to me and is proof, to me at least, that hate talk is just a step away from hate crime and does need to be banned.

It had previously been report in The Nation that "Hannity “offered his top-rated radio show as a regular forum for Turner’s occasionally racist, always over-the-top rants.” Hannity would also reportedly offer Turner “encouragement” to overcome his cocaine habit and “homosexual leanings.”

Turner’s arrest comes after two major tragedies put the spotlight on the dangers of right-wing extremism: the Holocaust Museum shooting by white supremacist James von Brunn and the assassination of Dr. George Tiller."

Thursday July 2, 2009, 2:34 am
There are two posts, chock full of links & videos, in connection with that DHS report on Think Progess :

Fox News’ Shepard Smith Called the DHS Report a “Warning to Us All,” but “the Right Went Absolutely Bonkers!” : The afternoon a gunman shot & killed a security guard at the Holocaust Museum in Washington, Fox News’ Shepard Smith, discussing the shooting, reminded the audience that when the Department of Homeland Security released a report (link) warning of violent, right-wing extremists earlier this year, “the right went absolutely bonkers!”

He called the report a “warning to us all,” and said DHS was “warning us for a reason.”

Watch the clip of that (link), as well as Southern Povery Law Center’s Heidi Beirich telling Smith that the shooting is a reminder of the real danger extremists and “crazies” pose to the U.S. (link)


The Wonk Room’s Andrea Nill highlights anti-immigrant screeds (link) written by the white supremacist neo-nazi Holocaust Museum shooter James von Brunn.


Update-- Smith said that the e-mail Fox receives from viewers "has become more and more frightening." He read an example, from a "birther" who called President Obama "Hussein," and said it was, "I promise, a representative sample of the kinds of things that we get here." Watch it here (link).


DHS Report Released: (A few EXCERPTS) Throughout the presidential campaign, the public saw extreme right-wing rhetoric on display at several McCain rallies, with some yelling “kill him” about President Obama — and others even calling him a “terrorist.”

The extreme right — those who are “hate-oriented,” “mainly antigovernment,” or those dedicated to a “single issue” — is a legitimate threat that law enforcement must deal with, according to a new assessment from the Office of Intelligence and Analysis at the Department of Homeland Security. The report, which was coordinated with the FBI and is being given to federal, state, and local law enforcement, warns:

[R]ightwing extremists may be gaining new recruits by playing on their fears about several emergent issues. The economic downturn and the election of the first African American president present unique drivers for rightwing radicalization and recruitment.

Some highlights from the report:
Anti-immgration: “Rightwing extremist groups’ frustration over a perceived lack of government action on illegal immigration has the potential to incite individuals or small groups toward violence. If such violence were to occur, it likely would be isolated, small-scale, and directed at specific immigration-related targets.”

Recruiting returning vets: “Rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to exploit their skills and knowledge derived from military training and combat.”

Gun-related violence: “Heightened interest in legislation for tighter firearms … may be invigorating rightwing extremist activity, specifically the white supremacist and militia movements.”

Conservative bloggers — such Michelle Malkin and Newsbusters — are up in arms over the report. A DHS official responded to the right’s criticism, noting that DHS did an assessment of left-wing extremism in January. “This is nothing unusual. … This is about awareness,” the official said.


Update-- The Southern Poverty Law Center also reports that the "number of hate groups operating in the United States continued to rise in 2008 and has grown by 54 percent since 2000 - an increase fueled last year by immigration fears, a failing economy and the successful campaign of Barack Obama."

Update-- Newt Gingrich tweets: "The person who drafted the outrageous homeland security memo smearing veterans and conservatives should be fired"

Thursday July 2, 2009, 9:54 am
WATCH: Jon Stewart Blasts Glenn Beck For Promoting Slaughter Of Americans

Thursday July 2, 2009, 11:10 am
I have to agree with Jon Stewart on this one.

Thursday July 2, 2009, 8:24 pm
Being vigilant and aware,whilst challenging "hate speech"and "hate groups"is a democratic necessity.
When we talk of the influence of extreme right wing groups,we are not just talking about wannabe stormtroopers and fuhrers,we are also talking about they who use the guise of respectability,to perpetuate ideologies,which result in an upsurge in violence against groups and individuals..ie blacks,gays,liberals,or those such as the doctor and security guard,mown down by misled,misguided and angry individuals.I'm talking hear about people like Limbaugh and Beck,who irresponsibly add to the culture of hate and discrimination..they have played a part, in this rise in expressed right wing anger.
As much as these issues touch on the concept of free speech,perhaps more importantly,they also touch on the question of "who has power to influence,and mislead others ?"My free speech is infintisimally minor,when compared to that of Rupert Murdoch's mouthpieces..my access to influence,is as naught compared to his..that isn't freedom..it is one person having influence,proportionate to ownership,wealth and power..the tyranny of the rich.
Murdoch and his boot boys,don't wear nazi regalia,they don't sieg hiel,but they do influence those who do..Beck wears a suit,and calls himself a conservative..don't ever beleive that hate,and racial intolerance is only spread by skinheads.
When I talk of being aware and vigilant,I refer to the clever and clandestine methods used to aquire power by the nazis.Hitler after his release from prison,ostensibly pursued the democratic road,made moderate noises,and laid out a programme much milder than the one that the nazi's eventually pursued.
Nick Griffin of Britain's British National Party is pursuing a similar approach.
The survivors of the holocaust such as nazi-hunter Simon Wiesenthal,a major figure in uncovering and exposing the true face and activities of the far right,warned constantly of the dangers of nievity in regard to the neo-fascist right.
It is clear that "those who do not learn from history,are condemned to repeat it",and ultimately it is up to all of us who despise neo-fascism in its many guises to debate,expose ,challenge and ultimately work for a better materially fairer ,more enlightened society,so as to remove the material conditions in which race hate prospers.
As for censorship..yep i'm against the expression of such speech,as would potentially lead to my black neighbour getting his head caved in.That takes me off the ultra-liberal list I guess..but then there is a massive gulf between expressing free speech and vomitting out hate speech.

Friday July 3, 2009, 6:54 am
Left or right does it really matter... one is radical to the extreme on both sides... we should be looking for the middle of the road solution to our problems... then terrorism would be a thing of the past, a non exsistant thing... Oh if we could all agree hey!!! Would not that be wonderful...

Friday July 3, 2009, 10:15 am
Left or right, it DOES really matter!! If you read the comments, the threat to life and limb is coming from the RIGHT, at least in the US ! It is also the RIGHT that led us to bombing Afghanistan & destroying Iraq.

I agree with everything the Panda's said, particularly in his July 2nd comment... but i have a problem with this:

"The survivors of the holocaust such as nazi-hunter Simon Wiesenthal,a major figure in uncovering and exposing the true face and activities of the far right,warned constantly of the dangers of nievity in regard to the neo-fascist right."

I may lack imagination, but what is 'nievity'?

Friday July 3, 2009, 10:30 am
I would love there to be a more harmonious society Chaz..although debate,disagreement,argument etc are healthy in any society.It is difficult to be accurate about what Left and right mean today,as political concepts,but I wouldn't want to discard the terms.
Right has traditionally been more conservative,in safeguarding the power and wealth of elite groups,and generally the right wishes to see a small role for welfare,an enormous role for the military,and in the case of the USA talks about a small state..though this refers to health and welfare..as far as repression ,the military and hand outs to corporations are concerned they in reality support an enormous state..
The left..and by this I include no modern US parties,were associated with redistribution of wealth , power and democracy (ie the Chartists,Suffaregettes in Britain),though this has become distorted following the ascendany of Eastern Europe style Stalinism,which of course was dictatorial and elitist..and has come to be used as representative of socialism..which it never was.
I don't beleive that either America or the UK has a left these days..at least not in terms of major political parties.In the US there is the slightly more radical wing of The Dems..who are perpetually sidelined in real terms,or the heroic Ralph Nader.This lack of a real left,means the centre is totally skewed towards the pro-corporation /Wall Street/militaristic right.Obama is a centrist politician,leading a centre right party..whose own room for leeway is minimal.
Fighting the power,creating an economically, fairer society,a greener society,a much reduced miltary,participative democracy,a free press (ie not the billionaire dictators press,that distorts the world and emits pure propaganda),universal health,an education system based on equal service for all regardless of background,fair pay (minimum and maximum wage)employee participation in all workplace descisions,clean water,clean air,enough food for all in the world as a right etc..to me these are a good aim,for a starting point of a decent society .
Left,progressive whatever ,but its way better than anyone outside of a few notable countries (Venuzuala,Scandanavian countries etc),are trying to create or are offering.

Friday July 3, 2009, 12:23 pm
Well said, Panda. In the UK, though far from being perfect, the Scottish Nationalists have some good leftish policies - especially the scrapping of Trident. All the Scottish SNP members of the UK parliament have signed the Early Day Motion against secret evidence, bar (unless it was today) the first minister, Salmond. The Greens are leftish in policies. I think there are plenty of people on the left who could get together at some point. Sometimes in the past leftish parties have spent more time squabbling with one another than fighting the capitalist elite.

Saturday July 4, 2009, 8:39 am
That is THE biggest problem with liberals or democrats in the US. The right here has one message to coalesce around, GGG Gods, gays and guns, while the right is fractured and fractious around how liberal how left, but they are still also bought and paid for by corporations and special interests. Until we have campaign reform here it will remain and the voters will have a limited pool of candidates to choose from. Every legislator must campaign for re-election on the day after election, every new candidate must now campaign over a much longer and therefore more expensive election cycle. Is it any wonder they are bought and paid for by big money?

Sunday July 5, 2009, 8:02 pm
why do you think rush limbaugh and beck and oreilly and fox news are number one in all catagories??because sponsers pay them because that is who people are listening too...is rush so bad because he speaks out about his disgust for late term abortions and and a lunitic kills a late term abortion doctor so its rush"s fault?? i disgust late term abortions too(unless the womans life is in danger which is a very small percentage of all late term abortions) so is it my fault as well that this lunitic killed the doctor...OF COURSE NOT ...right wing media,radio is so succesful because that is how the majority of americans feel...proof is in the sponsers...how is air america doing?/ not so good...so stop the blame on the right when a lunitic goes off and kills someone its just the far lefts excuse because they fail so badly in news and media outlets like little children who dont get their way so they blame someone they dont like for something they are not responsable for..and what about the military recruiter who was gunned down?? who should we blame for that one..huh. cant be the right so um lets not talk about it because it wont help our far left agenda..

Sunday July 5, 2009, 8:10 pm
Yes Dan talk radio listening figures are far more indicative of how people feel,than any other method of estimating opinion.Why don't the GOP go further and instead of going to all the bother of stealing elections,why not just look at Rush Limbaugh's listening figures and compare them to someone more left wing ( ie anyone else's) and then the candidate whose views are most like Chemical-Rush's can be President.
I

Sunday July 5, 2009, 8:13 pm
I'm not sure where this far left is though ?America's so called left ,ie The Democrats is to the right, of most European conservative party's..damnit if you ever met a real socialist you'd self destruct .

Monday July 6, 2009, 7:38 am
Thanks for a great article. Was out of town only found it today.

Monday July 6, 2009, 8:54 am
Dan, People listen to these right wing nut jobs for the same reason I watch them from time to time. To hear what Lunacies they will come up with next. And they know that's what they have to do to keep the ratings up. Just because you watch something does not mean you agree with it. There are lot more people watching and listening to them just to see how far they will go to keep their ratings then there are people that agree with them.