Saturday August 8, 2009, 3:56 am
It IS fascism (mob rule) Panda and about time someone realised that and shut them down!

Saturday August 8, 2009, 4:16 am
Action definately taken my beautiful friend Rob. I agree w/David, shut em down, now!

There is no way that I would compromise my freedom of choice act! Or relinquish any of my rights as a human being.

"Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights"! ~Bob Marley~

Your so right fasicism is what it's all about, and I'm not having it!

Noted as well, and forwarded.

Stay true to yourselves people, heed this warning. "Stay awake"!
Peace to us all,
FreeSpirit...

Saturday August 8, 2009, 4:48 am
There needs to be a lot of reform, as is said liberty, democracy, fairness and health. We need to get back what we have given. It's our time to receive back what we are owed. I speak free, I’m an individual and I know what my rights are.
Thanks for the post, Panda

Saturday August 8, 2009, 5:19 am
Thanks Panda for calling to my attention things that are happening in the rest of the US. I fortunately live in Vermont, which is the only socialist state in the US, with a socialist Senator. We have single payer health insurance for everyone under 19 and over 55. We also have orderly town meetings once I month. I did not know this was happening in the rest of the US. I signed the petitions, I feel that this petition should only be binding in the US as not all governments have the town meetings for which the pledge is being made.

Saturday August 8, 2009, 5:54 am
I have had to go from a 30 dollar co~pay to a 15 hundred deducable for me and my employees ! Yikes ! not good

Saturday August 8, 2009, 5:57 am
Signed !

Saturday August 8, 2009, 7:21 am

Already signed . . . and glad to see you promoting it, Rob!

Saturday August 8, 2009, 7:35 am
They claim Obama is a fascist but the protesters are acting just like the nazi brown shirts with their violence and obstruction of free speech!

Saturday August 8, 2009, 7:37 am
They claim Obama is a fascist but the protesters are acting just like the nazi brown shirts with their violence and obstruction of free speech!

Saturday August 8, 2009, 7:38 am
There is an article here at care2:
The Misplaced Ire of the Anti Health Care Reform Mujaheddin
link: http://www.care2.com/causes/politics/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-the-anti-health-care-reform-mujaheddin/
(I'd wish I know how to make it clickable)

Pay attention to: The Rachel Maddow Show, broadcast August 5, 2009 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/31898105#32307452

There's a petition from the DCCC:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/292189073

Saturday August 8, 2009, 7:40 am
Action taken. Thanks Panda.

Tell Your Friends: health care deserves civil debate.

Hey there,

I just signed a pledge to join in a civil, democratic discussion about health care while members of Congress are home this August.

Saturday August 8, 2009, 7:44 am
As usual people realize things when it is too late.

Saturday August 8, 2009, 8:16 am

SICK FOR PROFIT : Fight Back Against Health Insurance Lies

The Democrats should've launched this campaign six months ago, easy. Take a look at what you're fighting for, teabaggers.

Saturday August 8, 2009, 9:05 am
I signed the pledge

Saturday August 8, 2009, 9:29 am
Organized disruption. Just what the world doesn't need more of!

Saturday August 8, 2009, 9:35 am
When Fascism comes to America it will be cloaked in the flag and carrying a cross."
— Sinclair Lewis (It Can't Happen Here

Saturday August 8, 2009, 11:50 am
Noted and signed,thanks.

Saturday August 8, 2009, 12:55 pm
Have you all lost your minds? Maybe you have not found them yet - have to hope so. It was several UNION members who attacked a black man for selling items that did not support health care - buttons etc. They called him a 'nigger' and attacked him!
Do you realize that this is a loss to your rights of freedom of speech? Do you understand that what this health care non=plan calls for is 'selective care'? Someone else decides whether you are entitled to care instead of your doctor? HAVE YOU EVEN TAKEN THE TIME TO READ THIS BILL? It is in American English and surprise surprise even this Canadian understood it ....
Shame on all of you for trying to step out your own rights to free speech - you in the end will deserve what you get. Even your basic freedoms in America today were not free. They were won for you by people who gave their very lives to protect them over the many years past. Perhaps you should all take ONE SECOND TO TRY AND REMEMBER THAT!
These are your parents and grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbours and friends who are going to these meetings. It is Obama and his gang that are calling for Acorn and Union Members to attend and cause trouble .... SHAME ON EVERY ONE OF YOU WHO DID NOT RESEARCH THIS ARTICLE AND FOLLOWED LIKE BLIND SHEEP ....

Saturday August 8, 2009, 1:05 pm
By the way the article I am referring to is the health care bill and those of you who are blaming only the right are the ones I am speaking to here - the left is doing a pretty good job all on their own. Perhaps if the representatives actually LISTENED to what the people are saying instead of trying to preach to them there would be less yelling ....

Saturday August 8, 2009, 1:07 pm
These people that create this havoc are empty headed and easily led to any violence. They are an example of gang brainwashed idiots.I don't think they would ever listen to anything except what has been deposited in their brains ( ? ) by coniving Repulsives (GOP )

Saturday August 8, 2009, 1:12 pm
Not only "these people, Jane ... but the REPUBLICON politician$ and "talking head$" who encourage them ... remember how they all BEAT THE DRUMS FOR WAR ... and cra$hed our economy? They're all $elfi$h idiot$ and $hould be relegated to the $crap heap of humanity.

Saturday August 8, 2009, 1:19 pm
... and yet Blue you find it okay to happen when it is backed by your Democratic party as were all the anti war demonstrations???? THAT was all right???? NONE of this behaviour is all right .... NONE of it and the worst thing to happen would be Americans loss of free speech - that is what this is all about - FREEDOM OF SPEECH is it not?

Saturday August 8, 2009, 2:32 pm
If you look back at newsreels of Germany in the 1930's there are some really disturbing parallels between what's happening at these public meetings now and what happened then.

Saturday August 8, 2009, 3:11 pm
These aren't spontaneous emotional outbursts we are talking about here. These are people who have been recruited to keep others from learning the truth about health care reform and what our representatives are proposing. What is so wrong about listening to the subject matter these meetings were intended to present?

Saturday August 8, 2009, 3:59 pm
I think the problem is the representatives are only there to present an agenda - not to actually listen or hear what the people are saying and worse than that - they have NO ANSWERS to the many questions people are asking .... How can you possibly try and represent a 'plan' that is not yet finished? How can you possibly explain to people a concept that is so all over the place it is like your congress is having fits of stupidity instead of answers of common sense? If debate is to be allowed they must have answers and they don't which causes the anger among the so called 'mobs'. I have also heard some pretty smart ass remarks coming out of the mouths of representatives and union/acorn members that add to the conflict instead of helping to explain things ....

Saturday August 8, 2009, 4:46 pm
To Northern N. On the union members attacking someone selling anti-health care buttons.
Without condoning the violence does it mean anything to you why the union members are supporting
health care reform? What does it do to your claim the American people suddenly don't want to stop the Insurance executives (the multi-million dollar ones) from picking your pockets?
Have you though what it would be like to live under these people that "hate the government?" What do you think would happen to you if you slip your tongue under such regimes?

Saturday August 8, 2009, 6:58 pm
Englands health care plan is the third largest industry on this planet so it comes as no surprise to me why unions would be in favour of this. As a union member in Canada I am appalled at their behaviour - unions need to stay out of politics as a group. What we do as individuals is our own business - not the unions but even here in Canada they try and tell us what to think, who to vote for etc. It costs this country so much that here in British Columbia the unions have many times bit their noses off to spite their face. The demands have been so great here by unions that a lot of jobs have gone down the tube rather than meet them. Sure have taught the unemployed a lesson and at no time should union members EVER have a right to go after the public.
They are supporting this reform for their own gains period. It has nothing to do with fairness for anyone other than the union machine itself. I am well over 60 and would take the American Republic anytime over all the socialized systems we have here in Canada. We never should have gone that route and unions should never be stronger than management - it destroys companies and hurts workers .....

Saturday August 8, 2009, 7:14 pm
Tell me unions have ever been stronger than management in this country especially since Reagan busted the
Air Controllers. By the way what union are you a member of?

Saturday August 8, 2009, 7:19 pm
Oh right Northern the working people need to stay out of politics; well with that feudal serf mentality you deserve any shit that comes your way. That's got to be the stupidest comment I've ever read on here.

Saturday August 8, 2009, 7:20 pm
By the way I made my pledge especially as I receive retirement health benefits having worked for the United states 22 yr.
if you don't think Mr. Northern N that everyone should receive these benefits (which all members of Congress receive) then I need to asks who pays you for publishing that crap?

Saturday August 8, 2009, 8:46 pm
its called freedom of speach and people are mad about the uncertainties of this bill.....these are working class average americans who have the right to be heard...stop cring because they dont follow everthing obama says about "obamacare" because even obama has not read the whole bill but he tried his best to rush it through.....never try to stop freedom of speech with lame excuses that its rush limbaugh/fox news or insurance companies doing this...people are mad and want answers but you want silence and obediance.

Saturday August 8, 2009, 8:54 pm
Firstly Mr Northern,do you not think that corporations have unions or associations of their owner / bosses/controllers..that meet each other..and for that matter sit on government committees..and even occupy government posts ?
Yep our UK (The United Kingdom covers England,N Ireland,Scotland and Wales)health system employs a lot of people,not all are unionized and there is nopressure to be so..though even conservative voters usually see the sense in being unionised.
The union members get to vote on what their union does,often by postal vote,we elect our shop stewards,union leaders etc in a very democratic way ..far more democratic than anything you'd get in the USA these days,plus we get ballotted on significant issues,we can choose if we want to pay into the Labour Party or not.
Very democratic is it not ?..though to be frank,you seem to not be a fan of democracy..Examples 1)This site this post takes a person too,has a petition calling for civilised debate..not hectoring,mob rule etc..and yet you don't seem to relish debate taking place in a calm arena .2)You seem very displeased with the notion of working people,having a say over their lives,and yet the idea of rule by business makes you ecstatic..even rather excited . 3)You are strangely silent as regards the workings the of the lobby system ..of politicians being the whore's of big companies...no democrat would be inclined to ignore such a wholesale corruption of democracy.
Last point here Northern..you are doing a lot of good for the popularity of the word socialism ,if not the reality of any socialist cause..because to be quite blunt you haven't got a clue what it means mate.. have you really ! ..go on admit it..you are really clueless.
It's ok to say it to yourself,cos some people aren't good at other stuff,like maybe d i y...and your weak spot is the understanding of politics.
I struggle at decorating..i'm really s**t at it ,while political concepts like lets say "socialism" or "democracy" aren't really your forte..your gig..your thang..or whatever.
It's fair enough..we can't all be good at everything eh !..don't take it too badly mate..I bet your really good at decorating ..
Well anyway back to your boost for the word "socialism" well some fair minded people reading your comments may think.."well that guy who gets all excited by big business control hates socialism,that means that socialism must be really good.

Saturday August 8, 2009, 9:29 pm
Ahh Panda - I do indeed know what 'socialism' and 'democracy' are --- do YOU know the difference between them and a Republic? Which by the way America is .... and Joe I am not against anyone's right to free speech - what I am against however is unions thinking they have a right to tell people what must come out of their mouths .... I have been a union member for all of my years of life and there is good and bad in everything to do with them. I was surprised to see that union membership is so low in the USA today but not surprised to hear that England's health care system is totally unionized - it is the third largest employer in the world after all. We used to have our hospital workers all unionized here in British Columbia until they cut off their nose to spite their faces and it collapsed around them. The government privatized the industry so fast I still think they do not know what hit them and that is why our hospitals are a rudy mess now ....Yep, when the union decided they were the boss instead of the workers representative all the workers lost their jobs so sure taught them a lesson .... What I am saying is Unions are good - but they have no right to think that everyone must think with the collective because we are all individuals with different thoughts and opinions .... just as they have no right to assault an American at a protest rally for being black and God forbid not an Obama supporter which is what happened .....
Don't take offense Panda but I understand your health care system is in the same mess Canada's is .... too bad .... selective care is a real bummer for those who get sent to the end of the lines for treatment .... you know like the old and the terminally ill? No worries 'mate' happens here too and I thought it was only in Canada eh?
Frank, what I am saying is that America needs to do better than Britian and Canada - In no way have I ever said people should not be allowed to have benefits and for whoever it was who asked me - many, many years ago I was a member of the Teamsters Union - but we wised up and kicked them out when they would not tell us where Hoffa's body was buried ..... best thing we ever did .... formed our own union and it is still running itself to this day - all for the working middle class - no instructions on what to think .... How to vote ... nice -

Saturday August 8, 2009, 9:52 pm
"Don't take offense Panda but I understand your health care system is in the same mess Canada's is"...

My dearest Northern:

Healthcare for all is currently available in Canada. Not so in the USA and why not?...It's well over time...

Each and every one of your comments ignores this tiny fact. This tiny fact is what it's all about!...You are obviously more concerned with pushing your do nothing, protect our investments in insurance/healthcare corporations (bring down the Democrats and to hell with the sick?) agenda than having any consideration whatever for the current victims of the failed US healthcareless system...

Which galaxy do you orbit Northern?...Time to get real and butt out?...

Saturday August 8, 2009, 10:34 pm
People do get health care in the United States - even if they are not insured .... for you to believe otherwise demonstrates to me that you have some homework to do Panda .... when and if you ever bother to do it - get back to me eh?

Saturday August 8, 2009, 11:01 pm
I'm a US citizen and I lived in CA and AL for several years Northern and I assure you;you don't know jackshit about the uninsured and their access to healthcare in the US eh!

Saturday August 8, 2009, 11:44 pm
I think I know more than you do perhaps? Clinics where you wait all day and may not get to see a doctor if he see's his limit for the day? So you go home and come back the next day to a different doctor and do the whole thing over again because appointments are not taken? Waiting rooms in dirty public hospitals where you can wait ten hours or longer and sometimes people die on cots in the hallway waiting to see one? Before they get to the patient they are dead. Forget about your family doctor being allowed access to you in the hospitals (If you can get a family doctor). That is not allowed to save money so you see whoever happens to come along if you are admitted .... different doctor every day in the dirty public hospital ward ... Yep, I know a lot about FREE health care because what you have there is exactly what I have here and just think! You can all have exactly the same thing if you let Obama have his way! Lucky you!

Saturday August 8, 2009, 11:46 pm
Once again from Canada you know Jackshit!!!

Sunday August 9, 2009, 1:00 am
As a Canadian I know a heck of a lot more than you do John - and was it not New Zealand that went bankrupt? or Australia? somewhere out your way I remember a country went bankrupt and started all over again and the health care program was the main factor in why that happened. I love my country and I love America .... I have especially come to admire their republic and their constitution - if more of us had done the same we would have had a lot better programs and been a lot better off financially ...... They need reform but they need it done right ... Government in all countries have a tendency to bring in bad programs and throw a lot of money at them later in an attempt to fix them - the fix never happens .... what starts out bad stays bad and America can and must do better ....

Sunday August 9, 2009, 1:43 am
No neither NZ or Australia went or is going bankrupt and you still know Jack about anything judging by your poor knowledge and understanding of world affairs. So you think we all would be better off if we'd followed the American example; these people are $30 Trillion in debt by their own reckoning. I'm glad you don't look after my accounts.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 2:04 am
Its a great debating tactic Northern-deny all evidence that doesn't fit your agenda..1) No there aren't 45 million Americans without healthcare (though I presume you are counting emergency care as healthcare here)2)America the worlds wealthiest country etc etc oh I can't be bothered debating with you anymore...you'll just ignore all of the overwhelming weight of statistical evidence, and real life tragedy anyway...i'm staring pointlessness in the face by continuing any debate with you..you don't see unnecessary and painful deaths and you don't give a shit anyway...

Sunday August 9, 2009, 2:48 am
In fact there are about 50 million Americans without health insurance, which is 15 million people more than the entire population of Canada.
These are people without proper access to healthcare and they just get dumped in the street when they can't pay or their money runs out. Which does not happen in Canada, Australia, Britain or NZ just some of the countries with socialised medicine, not to mention the countries in Europe and Scandanavia (all of whose countries standards of living are far in excess of the US, and all the aforementioned countries) where socialised medicine is state of the art. Panda is right Northern; you're an idiot, end of discussion.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 3:12 am
So one of you from New Zealand and one of you from Great Britian think you know what is best for Americans? Let me tell you something, just because you want to see their economies go the same routes ours has because of bad health care programs does not mean you should wish the same thing on them - unless of course you hate Americans as most of the world seems to do. Perhaps that is why you are so hateful in your writing? You want them to fail and not continue being the greatest country in the world ... Jealous or what that their Republic is so successful? Cannot figure it out but I will keep reaching out to my American neighbours to get the truth out there. They can do better than those of us who have walked the social program path .... they must do better or we might as well all learn to speak chinese. I would rather stand with America any day - than stand with them .... The only folks dying painful deaths are here in Canada and Britiain because they are being denied care .... have to save money somehow ,,.,, You two are a gang of thugs who obviously hate America .... too bad .... its a great country with a lot of wonderful people living there ....

Sunday August 9, 2009, 3:25 am
"I think I know more than you do perhaps?" The ultimate unduly arrogant, unresearched and absolutely stupid self send up Northern?...Piss off, you have NOTHING to offer the world...Climb under a rock and hybernate forever?

Many struggling Americans with no healthcare at all woukd probably appreciate that!...

Sunday August 9, 2009, 4:55 am
These protests at town halls are not 'rent-a-mobs', paid for by insurance companies or the GOP or any other organization. These are protests by people who do not like what they have read in the proposed bill, and do not like the lies and spin being given them by their elected officials.
These are regular, every day, working people who are fed up with having the money they earn taken from them and given to those who do not deserve it. Some are Republicans, some Independents, and some are even Democrats. They are from all ages, all races, and both sexes. In other words, this is a real and honest grass-roots movement. This is the same form of protest that has been used by many now in power in years past; how can the people from the protest generation complain about protesters?

For those who want a socialized health care system I suggest moving to one of the great countries that already has such a system; otherwise leave ours alone.

There are so many issues at stake that it is not just about ensuring everyone has adequate, reasonable, and affordable care. There are points in the current bill that scare the crap out of me and many others, and these points are not being addressed. People are going to these meetings wanting real answers, but only get the standard sound bites and rhetoric. We want substance.
The bill advocates euthanasia as a means to control costs, stating that human life is not precious, but is merely a factor or variable in a cost-effectiveness equation. Is a child too deformed or slow to live? Get rid of it; don't waste money and resources on care better suited to someone healthy. Got a golden oldie on your hands? Counsel them and recommend "dignified" suicide to save us all time and money. How dare they want to live.
Obama promised several times that those with insurance would be able to keep it, but according to this bill, that's not the case. As soon as anything changes in my coverage my employer is required to switch to the public program.
According to the bill we will all be mandated in having coverage. If we refuse, we will be forced to pay through fines from the tax collectors.
There are many more things wrong with the bill. But the bottom line to myself and many others is the fact that it is not the responsibility of the government to take over health care. It is not and should not be government's role to dictate such things to free citizens. We're talking about a government that took over a whorehouse in Nevada, a place that sells sex and booze, and failed at it. Do we really want that group to run our health care? Social Security is a mess, as are Medicare and Medicaid. Even this latest "cash for clunkers" program is a jumbled mess.

We're told that 45 (or 47 or 50) million Americans are without coverage. That's not an accurate representation. Many of those can afford it, but choose not to (around 12 million or so). Many of the remaining are in this country illegally and shouldn't even be here or be counted in this census..
We're also told that it is too expensive. I will grant that going to the doctor is not cheap, and that medical insurance can be expensive. When I last looked at getting private insurance, I saw a huge range of options and prices, many of which were quite reasonable, depending on what I needed or wanted.

We have the best medical expertise and equipment in the world. Period. I don't say that as some form of bragging rights, I am saying that as a fact. Good doctors deserve to be compensated for the years of education and experience that it takes to get where they are. The equipment and medicines that can diagnose and cure a patient cost money to produce. That's just a fact of life.
There's no requirement to use all of these expensive procedures, equipment, and medicine. We can, if we choose, see a general practitioner, like the old style doctor that makes house calls. It is our choice, and should remain so. But the option should also be there to get the best possible care.
It is also expensive because of the slew of medical lawsuits from greedy lawyers (not all lawyers, just the ambulance chasers). The cost of medical malpractice insurance is so high that many doctors are questioning their own practice, wondering if it is worth it.

Lastly, if the US health care system is so bad, as many claim it is, why is it that those who can afford it around the world come here for care?
Why is Chris Dodd not going abroad to a country with socialized medicine for the diagnosis and treatment of his cancer? He rants on and on about how our system needs to change, and supports a bill that would deny himself coverage and even recommend suicide, yet he stays here. Why is that"
And why did all but two members of Congress vote down a provision of the bill that would require them to have the same coverage dictated in that bill?

I and millions of others throughout this great country have had enough of freeloaders and dictators. Government is already too involved in my life as it is, and this latest abomination is the last straw. If you think these protests are bad, just wait until the bill passes, then watch one very pissed off group of people reclaim their country.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 6:11 am
My dear, sweet stupid Michael,

"not 'rent-a-mobs', paid for by insurance companies or the GOP or any other organization." ??? Ignorance is bliss???

"These are regular, every day, working people who are fed up with having the money they earn taken from them and given to those who do not deserve it." Greedy, uncaring selfish bastards like you who do not give a damn about those less fortunate than yourself???

We have the best medical expertise and equipment in the world. Period"??? WOW!...Shame it's not available to all...

"We're told that 45 (or 47 or 50) million Americans are without coverage. That's not an accurate representation"...Care to elaborate Michael???...I'm sure we'd love to know the correct figures. No doudt you have them at your fingertips...Let's have them???

"When I last looked at getting private insurance, I saw a huge range of options and prices, many of which were quite reasonable, depending on what I needed or wanted."....Some people don't have ANY money Michael but I'm sure that they would gladly roll over and die to prevent you having to worry about them???

"Lastly, if the US health care system is so bad, as many claim it is, why is it that those who can afford it around the world come here for care?'
You have got to be joking Michael???

"I and millions of others throughout this great country"....Specifically who else, how many and why???...Great country???...Terrorists, eternal war mongers, corrupt corporations, land of the medically deprived, land of the free?????????????????????????

Get well soon Michael!

Sunday August 9, 2009, 6:15 am
This is in response to Michael Yundt. He presents a debate that no one is allowed to hear or hear
answered at the town meetings because of the strategy of the Republican National Committee. Perhaps
all of the protesters are honest working people with questions but they were captured by the
NRC leadership who know nothing except obstruction and thuggery. Perhaps that health insurance
CEO deserves that 750 billion dollar stock option. Perhaps even every penny of it. But my biggest
concern is the concept that Mr. Yundt turns upside down. The problem of human life as commodity
or treatment of slow disabled children is precisely on the part of the insurers not the government
with the "pre-existing" condition policies.There should be no "pre-existing conditions". There should be
no one without treatment or comforting in the first place. And that is why I have pledged to support the single payer option: I repeat my comment here: "Coverage should be from the cradle to the grave. If there is
a problem fetus it should either be aborted or treated."
But let us not comfort the 750 billion dollar CEO's with the "illegal alien" red herring either
Evven John McCain knows the answer to that.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 7:58 am
Stop the violence?

I have been reading posts throughout this forum this morning and all I have seen is anger, dissent, and bickering about who is correct and whose opinion is correct. If this web form is any representation of the violence and anger that is happening across the USA in town hall meetings I am appalled and disgusted as an American citizen by your words and behavior! It is not a right or left issue. It is a respect for others rights to express them selves as they choose and to be hear and listen too. I think that is freedom of speech, but I could be wrong. The health care bill in its current form in my opinion sucks and needs a lot of work. Socialized or Capitalist this plan sucks.

To all of you presumed educated and well informed people here discussing these important issues, stop using profanity to express your selves, It promotes mob mentality, dissent, anger and more violence and your credibility is lost with me.

Nothing is to big to fail, including AMERICA.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 8:21 am
Aaron right on!
David and Panda here in this country we've got this pesky little document called the Constitution. It limits government powers - not citizen powers. Shut down townhalls? No as Americans we will not accept that nor do we have to. We don't blindly follow government leaders no matter our politics. Dissent that was patriotic under the Bush administration has now become unacceptable? I don't think so.
Put me down as one who does not trust the government to do what is best no matter who is running it. So I will question, debate, discuss, and make my voice heard. I am not Australian, I am not British, I am an American and as such I have not only a RIGHT to be heard, I have a responsibility to express my opinion.
Of course I understand why many of you want to shut down the townhall meetings. It is because the healthcare bill cannot be debated on the merits because its merits are few and its problems are huge. It may not be important to you that a majority of Americans do not like the bill, but in our republican form of government an elected representative who does not pay attention to their constituents will soon be job-hunting.
And a government that would stupidly try to shut down townhall meetings would quickly learn what the politics of America is all about.
Our townhall meeting is Tuesday by the way. I will definitely be there!

Sunday August 9, 2009, 8:31 am
I live in a country with public health care. We do not call it "socialized".
It means that we believe that health care belongs to basic human rights, and every Croatian citizen has the right to a professional medical aid in his basic needs.
Same goes for education, and we have public schools, from primary to university level.
Health care and education are financed from the taxes and other budget incomes.
We also have private schools and health facilities, financed by their users.
We don't think this is unusual.
Each patient pays a symbolic fraction of hers/his health care bill. It is fixed amount, not a percentage.
In our primary health care are a physician, a dentist, a gynecologist, and a pediatric. They conduct and coordinate all our needs to primary, specialized and hospital care, if needed. Primary health care physicians don't visit their patients in hospitals, they get updated about patient's condition by phone or e-mail conversation with a specialist who treats their patient. They can also keep a phone contact with a patient.
we have waiting lists in hospitals and specialist ambulances, and if a patient waits longer than a month on a list, she/he has the right to go to a private facility to get examined and treated. Bill will be payed by the state fund for health care.
Our public health facilities are understaffed and don't look like a luxurious hotel, but they cover basic needs. For higher standard accommodation, a patient may opt for a private hospital, if she/he can pay.
Public hospitals often provides better medical care than private.
Health care treatments which can not be conducted in Croatia, due to a lack of educated physicians, are accessible abroad, but State fund may refuge to pay for it, if it is an experimental or low effective treatment.
Situation is far from ideal. Health care is a huge system, whose organization and coordination is even bigger problem than finances. When you put overstretched resources and ill people together, friction is unavoidable.
What counts for me here is:
- everybody has an access to a professional health care
- nobody has to broke to get a treatment
- if a patient wants more; higher standard accommodation, or a treatment which is not on the Health care Fund list (face lifting...), she/he can pay and get it in private medical facility.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 8:41 am
Who is trying to shut down town hall meetings? Are you saying it is not the Republican National Committee leading the party that was not elected? Then tell me if I'm reading something wrong because I am not int the area that's been having them shut down by shouters.

To tell you the truth I think because the Republicans lost the elections they are trying to shut down America.
No less then that they think God gave them the right to rule.

They are like the one Kaiser Wilhelm who started WW1 who said "It is immoral to dislike the Kaiser"

Sunday August 9, 2009, 8:44 am
Jelica said it all when she said: everybody has access to professional health care, no one has to go broke to receive treatment, and if a patient wants more and has the funds to pay, he has that option. Sounds pretty good to me!

Sunday August 9, 2009, 9:02 am
Thanks, Carrie

I'd like to remind you that Elena posted
The Health Revolution Petition

at: http://www.care2.com/news/member/785880716/1061150

You know what to do!

Sunday August 9, 2009, 10:44 am
Yes Jelica and I did it!

Sunday August 9, 2009, 11:13 am
Thanking Jelica for posting on health care in Croatia. Evidently it is an issue in which people over the European continent agree on. But an old American tradition is that people do not like being told what to do especially if it is some kind of authority. Many males even refuse going to the doctor for that reason. Naturally corporations play that theme to the hilt even though some of them present the most authoritarian ideologies that have been devised.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 12:21 pm
I signed Gladly
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to David because you have done so within the last week.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 12:39 pm
Frank, you mentioned, and many others; "...people do not like being told what to do...". It is not so in America only. If I want to get my husband to the doctor, he had to be fainted or in such a pain that he can not oppose.
Now, let's be reasonable; people, Americans included, hire lawyers, accountants, mechanics, hairdressers and all plethora of professionals to deal with life issues.
When we have a problem that needs specific knowledge we go for professional assistance.
Is it important who pays the bill? Hardly, we all want a good bargain.
Second, my doctor can only recommend me a treatment. I can refuse, and she/he can't do nothing about it without a court order. To get a court order, doctor must prove I am a danger to public, for medical or security reason. I've never heard that someone was put on a medical treatment by low. I've heard that people use their medical condition to avoid jail, and go to hospital.
If I am not content with my doctor, I can get another. It is not a big deal. I live in a town of 3500 people, and we have 6 physicians. One of them will probably be OK, or I can drive about 25 miles to the nearest town, with about 15 physicians.
Next, I can always ask for the second opinion.
As you see, nobody tells me what to do. I discus my problem with a professional and I decide what to do. For my health, for my car, or for that driving ticket I get.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 12:49 pm
Northern one last comment. You say you don't want to see the American economy go the way of Canada's etc. America has a debt of 30 Trillion; their economy is deeper in the shit than all our economies put together several times over and then some.
Read Niall Fergusson's Collossus (The Rise and Fall of The American Empire) and he's one of theirs a right leaning academic; he holds chairs a Stanford and Yale.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 1:39 pm
Duh John! Look at their population base compared to ours! Canada is one of the largest countries in the world (land mass) yet we have one of the smallest populations. Thus we are taxed to death for social programs that are not working, collapsing around us and nothing more than a mere money pit.
America NEEDS health care reform .... I do not think one American would argue this issue but the bill that is being presented to them right now is a very, very bad bill. It does not fill the gap and for all you nay sayers who think America should cover illegal immigrants - get a life! America is the most generous country in the world but maybe, just maybe this is one time they should worry about every legal American first .... As well there are people from every walk of life and every political affiliation who have actually taken the time to read this bill and found out you do not have to be a lawyer to understand all the BAD things in it.
I love America and have many relatives living down there - quite a few who supported Obama and will not do so again. He is too far left and is a puppet instead of a leader. When Hilary care was offered in the 90's the White House worked for months on the bill before presenting it to Congress .... instead Obama has laid the whole thing on Congress who are not responding to the people. It was a backhanded way to do something and Obama should have taken the lead in this whole thing. As a so called 'constitutional teacher' he more than anyone should have known that this bill is unconstitutional.
You need to learn more about America and its governing system before you and others comment on it. America is a great country full of great people from all sides of the fence. This administration more than any other in its history should have be unifying - instead it is tearing America apart and is proving to be one huge mistake made by the American voters.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 1:48 pm
Northern; having chairs in both Stanford and Yale: Trying to sit in both at the same time no wonder he keeps stretching points.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 2:11 pm
Bollocks Northern at most Obama is a centre right politician you and I have had this discussion before when you had another ID on the poll "Wiii the US ever have a socialised medicine?". You haven't got any wiser.
Especially your uninformed comment about Australia and NZ have been bankrupt which you have stated in both forums and is totally eronious; actually both countries are in fact feeling the recession far less than the rest of the world's economies in fact Australia's unemployment stats are rising as are both our financial and housing markets and our banks are lending.

Frank I suggest you read the book; he also holds a chair at Oxford. Just in case you don't know what that means it means he is a professor at all three universities, he is definitely from the right and a very respected academic while I don't agree with much of what he says the stats are his.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 2:21 pm
Of course professors sit in chairs. It is only comedians who stand up.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 2:26 pm
How does one become and academic except by stretching points especially in Political science.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 2:26 pm
Very good Frank you have a sense of humour I guess you'll need it; I was reading your posts on this; you seem to take opposing views in some of them; are you playing "devil's advocate" or are you genuinely confused? :)

Sunday August 9, 2009, 2:29 pm

Ask Republicans This

Right now, it's extremely obvious the insurance industry is driving the GOP attempt to kill health care reform - overtly to protect their wallets, and covertly to make Obama look foolish because he won an election they wanted to win.

"They'll kill your grandma. They'll keep you waiting 3 years for a kidney. They'll kidnap your doctor and move him out of the country."

They're trying everything - just to rake in millions to deny insuring those who really need it and for their GOP pals to crush one of Obama's pet projects: Letting Americans afford medical treatment. Gee, what a %#&!*% notion that is.

Knowing all this, ask this of your Republican friends:

If you're so dead set against the government running your health plan (while it runs the gold standard of health care for Veterans and GOP House members), why are you so willing to let the insurance companies run it for you?

Bask in the silence.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 2:45 pm
Thanking 'Blue Bunting" for mentioning some products of the Republican National Committee rumor factory.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 3:35 pm

I heard that this morning on MTP, Gingrich asked Palin, Romney and Huckabee to join him in supporting the next republican grass roots initiative…in an effort to prove conservatives mean what they say, he wants all seniors and vets to renounce medicare, social security and VA benefits. Gingrich says we have to walk the talk. When a befuddled Stephanopoulis said, really? Gingrich said yes, we have to show the left that we don’t need ANY government help. American seniors and vets are strong people, they’ll find a way to get along without these socialist services.

Let's see if the Right is willing to walk the walk and give up their "socialist" programs.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 3:47 pm
Gingrich's logic is inexorable. The best part is that he believes it. He will of course have to give up his govt. insurance and go to Cigna or something or else just keep cash in his pocket in case he has to visit hospital.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 5:48 pm
"Jelica said it all when she said: everybody has access to professional health care, no one has to go broke to receive treatment, and if a patient wants more and has the funds to pay, he has that option. Sounds pretty good to me!"
Tell me what is in this statement that anyone in the US doesn't already have? NOTHING.

Sunday August 9, 2009, 6:24 pm
"Tell me what is in this statement that anyone in the US doesn't already have?"

Well In short to answer your question; healthcare if they don't have money or enough money.
There are the 50 million uninsured for a start who don't have guaranteed access to healthcare, then there are the under-insured who have healthcare until their cover runs out; then all of them are at the mercy of the drastically under-funded clinics.

U.S. healthcare for the uninsured is distinctly third world.

Monday August 10, 2009, 9:32 am
Liberals need to scare a republican were a gun, lol On a real note The trillion dollar health care would cost $3279.00 to each of the 305,000,000 Americans. That is not a lot if you break that down over 10 years it is $328.00 a year! 22,000 adults died in 2006 due to a lack of health insurance. Would you give 328.00 dollars to save 1 life how about 22 thousand. That is less than a bush stimulus check, it is less than a child tax credit. It is less than cash for a clunker. It is a cheep amount to have the security of knowing if something happened you could get health coverage. So would you look at any of the family of the 22 thousand people who died and say well their life was not worth 328 dollars.

Monday August 10, 2009, 11:22 am
When there's a RepubliCON mob ... alway$ follow the money ...

Coal Lobby’s ‘Purest Form Of Grassroots’ Delivered By GOP Voter Fraud Company

Paid staff will both call people already on the group’s list and talk to other people at public events, asking them if they want information or T-shirts or would be interested in asking a question at a town hall meeting. “This is the purest form of grassroots,” Lucas said. “It’s facilitating constituents to talk one-on-one with members of Congress.

The new project will use 225,000 volunteers dubbed “America’s Power Army.” They will visit town hall meetings, fairs and other functions attended by members of Congress and ask misleading questions about energy policy.

Anti-Reform Group Takes Credit For Helping Gin Up Town Hall Rallies
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, the operation that’s running a national campaign against a public health care option, is now publicly taking credit for helping gin up the sometimes-rowdy outbursts targeting House Dems at town hall meetings around the country, raising questions about their spontaneity.

CPR is the group headed by controversial former hospitals exec Rick Scott that’s spending millions on ads attacking reform in all sorts of lurid ways, a campaign that’s being handled by the same P.R. mavens behind the Swift Boat Vets.

Monday August 10, 2009, 11:28 am
Insurance and Health care industries are spending OVER A MILLION A DAY TO KEEP THEIR HIGH GREEDY PROFITS!! Don't let them, call your senator while they are home on "vacation". Tell them NO MORE CORP< BUSSED IN TOWN MEETING BUSTERS, AND TELL THEM BLUE DOGS NO MORE "FOR SALE VOTES" TO THE INDUSTRIES THAT DONATE TO THEM. I HAVE A LIST OF WHICH DEMOCRATS ARE PAID TO VOTE NO ON HEALTH CARE AND HOW MUCH THEY each GOT FROM HEALTH AND INSURANCE INDUSTRIES TO SELL US OUT!! dEMAND THEY GIVE US HEALTH CARE, AFTER ALL IF WE CA PAY FOR A WAR WE CAN PAY FOR HEALTH CARE..OR GET THEM OUT OF OFFICE NOW! TELL THEM NO..NO MORE SOLD VOTES AND NO MORE BUSSES TO DISRUPT MEETINGS.

Monday August 10, 2009, 11:49 am
I saw the data presented by Carrie: Thanks for presenting them. There is a peculiar lack of thoroughness in the reports on the debates on cost coming out of Congress. The spokes people and the Media say sometimes 11 trillion other times seven hundred billion; but they don't say over what periods of time the various sums amortize.

Monday August 10, 2009, 2:06 pm
You know what keeps amazing me no end: the conspicuous paucity of (well advertized) literature as well as direct social action supporting the current (i.e. President Obama's) administration on its core political agenda. There’s so much at stake here, health care reform must, really must succeed, the economy must be stimulated to find its way back to significant recovery, etc. And what do we see? A plethora of books being knocked out, almost monthly by conservative journalists, fiercely opposing the President’s plans and in fact, tainting his reputation by perpetually launching their crock of wild and nasty allegations. This has to be stopped, asap. But where are those brave, liberal and creative minds willing to give it a shot and expose the blatant lies and filth being dumped on us by the conservative rats out for the President’s hide? Let’s finally counter the sh**t produced by the likes of Dick Morris (‘Catastrophy’), Glenn Beck (‘Common Sense’) and most recently, Michelle Malkin (‘Culture of Corruption; Obama and His Team of Tax Cheats, Crooks and Cronies’). Come on folks, let’s organize our own town hall counter-meetings and give those right-wing rats hell!

Monday August 10, 2009, 4:59 pm
I just signed up for a conference call with OFA "Organizing for America" tomorrow at 8 PM EST Also signed to help Obama in this campaign for health care reform. I sent email message to Friends and newspapers about the
extremest "Netroots" just put out as an alert by "Alternet". The extremists have actually attempted to prevent
citizens from contacting their elected representatives. I was requesting newspapers to print "op eds"
about the history of extremism in the GOP since Vigurie of the Nixon period.

Monday August 10, 2009, 6:53 pm
Correction: The rouge troll organization reported by "Alternet" this evening is not "Netroots" but "Resist.Net"

Monday August 10, 2009, 7:23 pm
To Panda Fox S. Please check on whether my record is that I accepted and linked. The original page came back
but I don't want to have my name on twice. it happened with other sites and they had me talking to myself.

Also Channel is regular comment because email was sent back again.

Monday August 10, 2009, 7:30 pm
I guess it is all about where you keep your brain stored. It is either in your head or still in your back pocket. You blindly believe that senior citizens are being 'bussed' in to protest at these meetings? Sure, makes sense to me - gangs of grannies and grandpas that actually took the time to read this bill and found all the faults in it. Yet just like some of you beleive Bush planned the attacks on the towers you will beleive there are busses loaded with grandparents being driven around to harass members of congress. Idiotic.
Have any of you considered the fact that even Obama himself cannot explain this bill and here is one more thing - you can do all the ranting and raving you want - if Obama and the Dems do not have the senior citizen voting block come the next elections they do not have a hope in hell of keeping or winning anything.
Right now in America the senior citizens are the largest voting block in your country. Without their support Obama will indeed be a Carter - a one term president who will soon be forgotten - because he ended up doing nothing other than driving up your national debt and then getting kicked out of office for not listening ....

Monday August 10, 2009, 7:32 pm
i have heard countless stories of average americans that were not contacted by insurance companies or traveled to these town hall meetings on buses....they are nothing more than concerned citizens ..are there some plants from both sides?...yes...but the majority of people are average people who want answers about their heath ins. and when the elected officials say they have not read the whole bill and cannot answer many basic questions then is it really a surprise with the reactions at these town hall meetings? this is freedom of speech at its greatest and if liberals dont like to be asked questions and like a silent population that just follows blindly they were sadly mistaken in this situation ...because its not fox news or rush limbaugh or ins. companies but average working people who just want a few honest answers....

Monday August 10, 2009, 7:34 pm
A CNN anchor versus the Poster Child for Privatized Medicine - Rick Sanchez actually exposes the man behind the "grassroots" anti-healthcare movement.

Monday August 10, 2009, 8:03 pm
Northern N. You know nothing about what goes on here, It has been my experience that people that scream they no it all usually know nothing.

Monday August 10, 2009, 8:06 pm
YouTube - Ashes and Snow- Feather to Fire

You Do Not Have Health Insurance


http://www.truthout.org/080709A?n

The Baseline Scenario: "Right now, it appears that the biggest barrier to health care reform is people who think that it will hurt them. According to a New York Times poll, '69 percent of respondents in the poll said they were concerned that the quality of their own care would decline if the government created a program that covers everyone.'

Since most Americans currently have health insurance, they see reform as a poverty program - something that helps poor people and hurts them.

If that's what you think, then this post is for you. You do not have health insurance.

Let me repeat that. You do not have health insurance. (Unless you are over 65, in which case you do have health insurance. I'll come back to that later.)"




So, thanks to Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY), Speaker Pelosi says she will bring a vote to the floor on single-payer after the recess. Are you all ready to make those phone calls and write those letters?


Nancy's contact info..http://speaker.house.gov/contact/

Send our speaker an e-mail of encouragement.

Monday August 10, 2009, 9:45 pm
"I don't no I'm just as confused as everyone else."
... and yet you have that sentence on your page? I am a senior citizen and I LIVE the life of this socialized medical system Obama and his stooges are trying to sell you. America can do better Cynthia - much much better and as it concerns 1/6 of your national econom don't you think it is an important enough issue to get it right? Change has to come - all parties agree but a bad bill (which even I read) is exactly what it is - BAD .... it will not help, it will not do what you think and want it to do - all it will do is bankrupt America .... and in this case there are no winners - Every American loses ....

Monday August 10, 2009, 10:24 pm
"I don't no I'm just as confused as everyone else." .....Is meant to be funny you Idiot. I am no where near the confused that you are. You don't know anything about this bill or you would not be against it. And you don't no anything about the Insurance Coprorations we are dealing with now.
Our Insurance cost grew (400.12%) in the years between 2000 & 2007 and the amount of people doing without grew 19% while Insurances Big Fat CEO's Took home (11.9 million each) every year, not counting their big fat bonuses. At this rate where do you think we will be in a few more years.
And you think we should be happy with what we have because it the best in the world. Like I said before you know nothing. Another thing this so call terrible socialized medical system you have, is way better then what 50 million of us here have now which is no insurance at all. Try telling them they can have your kind of insurance and see what they tell you.

Monday August 10, 2009, 10:28 pm

Health Care Reform: 450,000 Doctors Can't Be Wrong
The U.S. has a catastrophically fragmented health care system that provides incentives for sick care instead of prevention. The system is in dire need of reform -- reform to save lives, to save families and money for patients and the health care system.



From: "Health care system and health care reform in Germany"

http://www.bmg.bund.de/cln_160/nn_1169696/EN/Gesundheit/gesundheit__node.html?__nnn=true


This is the official website of the Ministry of Health and Social Matters in Germany

Quote:

"However, a health care system is not a "normal" market. After all, it places even more importance on care standards and service quality than other sectors do. Here, too, Germany scores high on quite a few counts:

* It is far easier to obtain out-of-hours medical attention here than in most other countries and, very importantly, this is so regardless of income or insurance status.

* Wait times for hospital care ... are shorter here than elsewhere.

Also, no such thing as "Preconditions" exists in Germany!

And

"Universal coverage

From now on, all citizens in Germany will enjoy health insurance coverage. From 1st January 2009, and for the first time in German social history, all residents are obliged to take out health insurance unless they are otherwise covered. Persons who had lost their insurance cover must return to their most recent insurer. This applies to the statutory and the private insurance system alike. "

Addendum: If someone cannot pay for his own health insurance (minimum wages apply), the state pays the premiums. This is a legalized RIGHT for citizens of Germany!

Don't opt for less, Americans! Don't let them tell you, it can't be done - because it can!

If we can, then you can, too. YES, YOU CAN!

Monday August 10, 2009, 10:29 pm
Correction on my last sentence. Was supose to read - Try telling them they (can't) have your kind of insurance and see what they tell you.

Monday August 10, 2009, 10:34 pm
I have got to get out of here this bs is p---- me off. It kills me how some people can preach about something they have like its the worst thing in the world to other people who don't have any.

Monday August 10, 2009, 10:45 pm
Anyway I am for single payer. But if we can't get single payer you bet I'm for this bill they have proposed. Anything is better then being at the mercy of these Greedy Insurance Corporations who do not care about the human equation. All they care about is profit.

Monday August 10, 2009, 11:19 pm
First of all the only idiot I have come across lately is the one who is living in your White House .... secondly I am trying to tell you that it is not better .... but you are still drinking the koolaide at they say ... Here is my prediction .... They may pass this bill because of the sheer numbers but it will be one of the last things a lot of them will ever do ... if it has the single payer in it ... must go along with other lines so it will be scaled back ...
this is all about politics and power - not people and if you believe otherwise then you are very naive .... The senior citizens in America are the largest voting block in your nation .... To anger them and lose those votes is to lose the power they seek to keep ....
http://www.theprovince.com/
A good example of what will start happening to every American besides the huge increase in taxes ...

Monday August 10, 2009, 11:48 pm
Oh please the Canadian PM Stephen Harper is an even bigger idiot than GW Bush; if you support him you're either senile or a redneck. Which is it? Pease share. No wonder you know Jack about healthcare eh.

Tuesday August 11, 2009, 1:05 am
So now you are going to try and attack the Canadian Prime Minister? Nice try - we have been standing shoulder to shoulder with the Americans in Afghanistan - where the hell has New Zealand been? You just insulted every Canadian solider who had died over there ..... and furthermore Harper has been a damn good Prime Minister here in Canada ...

Tuesday August 11, 2009, 1:28 am
New Zealand has enough sense to not get involved in a futile unwinnable war (How many others have failed?)...Protecting the USA from what?...Paranoia?...Give me a break...

Tuesday August 11, 2009, 4:23 am
it is not an unwinnable war and unlike most other invaders of afghanastan we stand shoulder to shoulder with the average afghan because we are fighting the taliban/al-queda...we have not been attacked since 9/11 so keeping al-queda/taliban on the run is working...we are taking out their leadership and their ability to mount any major attack is diminished on a daily basis....so yes it can be won and is being won david.....and thank you canada for all your help in the war on terror you are a true friend.....and NZ has been helpful as well...even australia david understands more than you and have been a major player in the war on terror..with this kind of combined effort this war can be won by helping afghan people and at the same time crushing the al-queda/taliban...

Tuesday August 11, 2009, 4:55 am
What does this Joe Jone comment say unless it's posting is a button push accident? What it say is the shouters and disrupters at the town hall meetings are helping win the war on terrorism. That's what I infer from the print.

Tuesday August 11, 2009, 7:11 am
From Colette Campbell, the NJ Director of Americans for Prosperity, that should be passed along to anyone and everyone on your e-mail list. It is, in my opinion, the most accurate, objective analysis of the proposed “health care reform” bill now before the House of Representatives.
Please forward this to everyone you know so they are up to date and do not place themselves in the embarrassing position of being proved wrong on this vital issue.


The battle over our health care is reaching new heights. There has been a flood of misinformation via the internet regarding House Bill H.R. 3200, the most prominent of the proposals currently being advanced. While this bill is dangerous, it is essential those of you who are attending Town Hall meetings, calling legislators, getting on talk radio and writing letters to editors have all of the correct facts. The left is already calling criticism of this radical governmentalism of our health care false and nasty. A well educated citizen is the best defense of our liberty we can put forth. I am sending you a comprehensive analysis of one of the more popular lists of claims about the bill prepared by our Americans for Prosperity staff. I know it is long, but please take the time to read this. You can’t afford not to.
(Disclaimer: We are discussing H.R. 3200, the current House proposal, which as of August 6, 2009 has not had the amendments from the three House committee markups included in the text.)
CLAIM: Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
This is TRUE. A commissioner will coordinate with the Secretary of Health and Human Services to create a report detailing the size, scope and stability of self-insured plans. The goal of this report is to “ensure that the law does not provide incentives for small and Mid-size employers to self-insure.” In other words, this bill will work to eliminate self insurers.
CLAIM: Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. The bill does not outline rationing in this section.
However, what it does do is establish cost sharing limitations. These government imposed limits on benefits paid are the statutory groundwork for what could become Rationing once costs inevitably spiral out of control in a government run system.
CLAIM: Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (And, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
This is TRUE. A health care advisory committee will be established with the intent of Defining “the essential benefits package … including categories of covered treatments, Items and services within benefit classes, and cost-sharing.” This new bureaucracy is Essential if politicians want to impose a mandate Americans to get coverage. Bureaucrats will then decide what qualifies as acceptable coverage to meet that mandate.
CLAIM: Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. This section is an extension of the issue discussed above.
CLAIM: Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare
services.
This is FALSE. The referenced section refers to non-discrimination of coverage, which has cost implications, but does not discuss providing coverage to non-citizens.
CLAIM: Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcare.
This is FALSE. However, the section in question does pose other problems. We invite you to read and ponder the implications: “Enable the real-time determination of an individual’s financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card.”
CLAIM: Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
This is TRUE. The bill allows Health and Human Services to “enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and remittance.”
CLAIM: Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. The bill provides for a reinsurance program for employer based plans. This provision is troubling because it puts taxpayers on the hook for improperly managed private retirement health care systems. As the claim suggests, union retirement plans are some of the most under funded in the country and stand to gain significantly.
CLAIM: Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
This claim is TRUE and undisputed.
CLAIM: Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
This is FALSE. The section merely outlines the limits for the types of plans that will be allowed in the exchange.
CLAIM: Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
This is TRUE. However, plenty of people in this country don’t speak English as their first language but are not illegal aliens.
CLAIM: Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Aerators to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. This section does not talk about ACORN but does outline an outreach program to educate individuals and employers about the government system. However, it is certainly a legitimate concern to consider who the government would contract to conduct this “outreach and education.”
CLAIM: Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
This is TRUE. The commissioner of the health board would be instructed to create a process under which someone that “has not elected to enroll in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan is automatically enrolled under Medicaid.” This is another in a line of bureaucratic programs that will further limit and control an individual’s choice in care.
CLAIM: Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
This is TRUE. The section clearly states that there “shall be no administrative or judicial review of a payment rate or methodology” used rate-setting decisions. This provision is critical if government wants to be able to use its coercive power against the private insurers.
CLAIM: Page 127: The American Medical Association (AMA) sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. This section establishes various levels of participation for physicians, including: preferred, participation non-preferred and other providers. These categories each contain limitations on the level of services government will reimburse for and the level of cost sharing that patients and providers must bear.
CLAIM: Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. The bill states that an employer must enroll an employee in the government plan unless the employee specifically opts out and instead “elects coverage under an employment-based health benefits plan offer by such employer.” This is a vehicle through which private insurers will be squeezed from the marketplace. The government-run program will be able to offer lower premiums to the employee who will
be forced to choose between the size of the withholding from his paycheck and the quality of care offered.
CLAIM: Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400,000 or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
This is TRUE and undisputed.
CLAIM: Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250,000 – 400,000 who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
This is TRUE and undisputed.
CLAIM: Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t’ have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
This is TRUE. The bill states “any individual who does not meet the requirements of [the government program] is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent … of the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income.”
CLAIM: Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
This is TRUE. The bill specifies that the mandates and tax penalties do not apply to individual who is a non-resident alien. However, it does not say Americans will pay for them.
CLAIM: Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
This is TRUE. With regards to determining government-determined “affordability credit,” the Health Choice Administration is empowered to gain access to tax return information or other such information that may be required to determine eligibility.
CLAIM: Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
This is TRUE. With regards to a calculation of the amount of credit offered in a different
section of the bill, it does say that, the “tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.”
CLAIM: Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. The bill does not specifically limit care to seniors.
However, it does seek to contain costs by asserting a new fee schedule for payment. This could have the effect of inducing physicians to limit the choices of seniors to receive certain care that does not fit the new schedule.
CLAIM: Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. The bill sets up new service categories, and pays according to the category. However, placement of physician classes into the categories and expenditures per service category are established by the Secretary of Health and Human Services.
CLAIM: Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
This is TRUE. The government will decide the value of doctor’s “time, mental effort and professional judgment, technical skill and physical effort, and stress due to risk.” The market determination for the importance of these functions is completely eliminated under the public plan.
CLAIM: Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
This is FALSE. This provision establishes a best practices and productivity improvement incorporation program.
CLAIM: Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
This is TRUE. However, it is a reclassification of an existing regulation and contract standards.
CLAIM: Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. The bill requires a review of cancer hospital payments be undertaken and costs adjusted accordingly. Although this will likely have the effect of lowering reimbursements and thus limitation quality care, the bill does not, in itself, ration care.
CLAIM: Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable readmissions.
This is TRUE. “In order to account for excess readmissions in the hospital, the Secretary shall reduce the payments that would otherwise be made to such hospital.” Once again, this is government asserting its own bureaucratic judgment in the place of doctors and hospitals and punishing those who do not conform.
CLAIM: Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
This is TRUE. This is an extension of the above provision that relates to hospitals, only this time, applying it to physicians. Payment reduction will occur if a physician “sees an individual within the first week after discharge from a hospital or critical access hospital.”
CLAIM: Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare
companies!
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. This section refers to rural operations and contains a percentage of ownership that doctors are not allowed to exceed. However, physician owned operations are very important in many rural areas and limiting a doctor’s ability to own an operation could severely cripple care.
CLAIM: Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without
government approval.
This is TRUE. This section limits the ability of physician-owned facilities to increase “the number of operating rooms, procedure rooms or beds of the hospital at any time after the date of the enactment.”
CLAIM: Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. The section provides an opportunity for community input in the proposed expansion of the facility. However, it does not hinge on community approval.
CLAIM: Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. The bill does affect a shift toward a focus on outcome based medicine. This section requires a report to “reflect the outcomes of care experienced by individual enrolled in Medicare Advantage plans.” This type of reporting will lay the groundwork for the limitation of care to those procedures that the government believes produces the best outcome.
CLAIM: Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
This is TRUE. This section is a continuation of the empowerment of Health and Human Services to define what qualifies as adequate coverage.
CLAIM: Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
This is TRUE. The section is entitled “Extension of Authority of Special Needs Plans to Restrict Enrollment.” The section also requires a study into special needs treatment.
CLAIM: Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
This is TRUE. The section expands an existing Telehealth program.
CLAIM: Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
This is TRUE. An end-of-life care consultant program is endorsed and outlined explaining the role of such a consultant and the required actions that much be taken by a consultant.
CLAIM: Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. The bill does require that this information be provided. However, it does not contain an estate tax provision.
CLAIM: Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
This is TRUE. A list of end-of-life resources available from the government is required to be provided.
CLAIM: Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. The bill does not mandate this program, it establishes the parameters under which such a program is offered.
CLAIM: Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. The bill contains a section allowing for an individual to leave a medical order with an end-of-life consultant, who will then execute it should the need arise.
CLAIM: Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of life.
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. Similar to the above claim, an end-of-life planner will carry out the wishes of the patient, including treatments wanted and not wanted.
CLAIM: Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
This is TRUE. Government will reach out to and fund community-based medical homes that provide care and supervision of primary care by doctors. However, there is nothing to suggest ACORN would benefit.
CLAIM: Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
This is TRUE. Similar as outlined above.
CLAIM: Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. Although the bill strikes coverage for clinical social work, it expands the Social Security Act to include marriage and family therapists. However, it relates to private therapy services.
CLAIM: Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
This is PARTIALLY TRUE. Similar provision as was provided above for marriage counseling. Of the 47 total claims that were offered from the first 495 pages of the 1018 page bill, Patients First finds:
• 25 to be TRUE
• 18 to be a PARTIALLY TRUE
• 4 to be FALSE
H.R. 3200 is a massive reordering of America’s health care services with a heavy bias toward injecting the government’s judgment in place of doctors, installing bureaucratic control in place of patient discretion and enacting significant tax increases in hopes of stemming the deficit busting costs of the new programs.
The analysis above provides a starting point for the digestion of the complex and onerous provisions in the current House proposal. On balance, I find the provisions examined to be a significant threat to the quality of our country’s health care. But don’t take my word for it, read the sections of the bill outlined above and make your own decision. That’s the best way to fight back against the big government mentality that is attempting to seize the nation.

Tuesday August 11, 2009, 7:12 am
Northern N. Wrote, "You just insulted every Canadian solider who had died over there" You have went to far. You truely are an A-Hole.

Tuesday August 11, 2009, 9:31 am
Nancy,
Colette Campbell, the NJ Director of Americans for Prosperity
Give me a break. This crap comes straight out of the Rebubilcan Insurance Corp. hand book its all LIES. Colette Campbell comes straight from Big Insurance. And the director of Americans for Prosperity in my state used to work for Tom Delay remember Tom Delay Nancy. The biggest dishonest lying crook that ever slithered in and out of the white house. Your info is tainted and smells of big insurance. Wake up you are being used

Tuesday August 11, 2009, 10:34 am
Nancy did in her investigation like these clinical trials for the "pharm" companies without controls. She should go and apply the same protocol to a private insurance provider and ask them who decides the decisions such as what procedures are suitable and what ones aren't. Of course why does my doctor have to spend so much time filling out forms and the clinic has to pay so many secretaries?

Tuesday August 11, 2009, 10:52 am
On how Northern N i qualifies himself to discuss health care. When he has a chair at three universities it means only that he teaches the "pseudo subject" know as "political science" . If you don't know the reputation of "political science" just go to a humanities department and chat with some of the professors. The universities provide chairs because they come with huge endowments from conservative groups. Perhaps the term was originally introduced as a counter to Marxists using the term "scientific socialism". Of course anyone who is a scholar would cringe at a term like that because the use of the term has the message of "no need to investigate any further because it is scientific" rather than meaning a call to investigate.

Tuesday August 11, 2009, 12:53 pm
I am certainly 'qualified' to talk about my actual life experience and a socialized health care system is a life I live. I never went to University but here in Canada as I read your health care bill I recognize a socialized
reform when I see itl Again Obama has mentioned our system here in Canada and again I say America can do better. Why are they not starting with insurance reform instead of a government takeover? All you have to do is read the bill and you can see it for yourself. Then there is Obama in a staged Town Hall and thinks Americans are so stupid they do not see it for what it really is .... If Americans fall for the propoganda you will deserve what you get - but as a neighbour and a friend of America I do not wish it on you.

Tuesday August 11, 2009, 1:02 pm
.. further John from New Zealand and David from Australia your hatred for America pours out of everything you say so why do you bother. Only those who have a deep hatred for a country attack their military, their foreign policies and support things in that country that could well destroy their Republic. Again, unitl you educate yourself as to how America's political system works maybe you should be posting elsewhere.
America is a Republic - not a democracy as we are and there is a huge difference. As someone who supposedly taught Constitutional law is amazes me that Obama appears blind to this fact .... But America is waking up and most understand that they cannot bear anymore massive debt with out their country collapsing under the weight of it.
Insurance reform is what is needed here - it is the insurance companies that need to be regulated - not a take over of personal health care ....

Tuesday August 11, 2009, 1:27 pm
Still not hep that the main intent is insurance reform but competition is needed such as from the public option to keep them honest. Much of the bill is describing the public option that has not been there before but it is up to the customer to choose.
By the way it would be nice if you saved some space and reading time if you cease your personal attacks and comments. They give the impression you crawled out from under a rock.
You give the impression that you crawled from under a rock

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 10:17 am
Whistleblower: Insurance firms behind town hall disruptions
Man arrested at Obama event had loaded gunHeld in police custody; was also carrying pocket knife...
Stewart recalls conservative attacks on anti-war protesters

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 10:45 am
Thank you for telling me the were holding the gunman. I was going to make inquiries. One of his remarks was
that holding an unloaded gun was foolish.

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 10:48 am
Chris Matthews had on the Ron Paul supporter who showed up with a handgun to the New Hampshire town hall on health care led by President Obama. On Hardball yesterday, he really
laid into the man -- a Kramer lookalike named William Kostric -- with some tough questions about just what the hell he hoped to accomplish:

Matthews: Why did you bring a gun to a meeting with the President of the United States, given the violent history of this country with regard to presidents and assassinations? Why did you bring a gun to a public event with the president? You know the history of this country. If you love this country and its history, you know we've had a problem with people with guns and presidential events. Why did you bring a gun to an event with the president?

... OK, you brought a sign that says, 'The tree of liberty has to be watered with the blood of tyrants,' and you're carrying a goddamn gun at a presidential event. I think those things make people wonder what you're about.

Matthews gets to the core point eventually:

Matthews: I'm gonna ask you: What do you bring to this discussion about health care? By bringing a gun, and that sign that you quote Jefferson from, what does that bring to a debate that this country's engaged in -- and we're looking at your gun right now, and your sign on there -- what did you -- and it's loaded, you pointed that out -- what are you doing to help this debate?

The best that Kostric can do is babble incoherently -- rather Kramerlike, actually -- about "showing the other end of it" so you can "pull people in your direction." He manages to finally blurt out that he actually thinks everyone would have been safer at the Town Hall event if everyone there had been packing heat.

Of course, that begs the questions of whether President Obama would have been safer, doesn't it?

Especially with crackpots like this in the crowd.

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 11:08 am
". . .if. . .everyone had been packing heat" The Goon squad is I am wont to call them might be trying to set up a
"mulligan" A "mulligan" in golf is when you cannot putt and aim directly at the hole without hitting the other ball.
Now, if they arrest somebody acting a little crazy they will go to the press about "See the repression started"
On the other hand if someone gets hurt, "See they can't protect anybody." But I think Kostric got a little too
rambunctious.

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 12:00 pm
WATCH: Rosa Parks Poster Torn Up At McCaskill Town Hall

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 2:38 pm
St. Louis Teabag Protester Lies about Medical Coverage to Solicit "Donations"
Mr. Gladney was neither "laid off" nor without health insurance coverage.
He lied in public about needing money for his bills and is now profiting off his lie.

Read more

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 3:02 pm

Professor Stephen Hawking Enters U.S. Health Care Debate
"I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the National Health Service," he told The Guardian. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 3:42 pm
* A conservative activist held a "Death to Obama" sign at a town-hall event in Maryland today.

* Another Republican official sending racist emails and assassination jokes? Imagine that.

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 4:05 pm
WATCH Town Hall Highlights: Protesters Fear Socialism, Communism, Mass Murder

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 7:05 pm

Professor Stephen Hawking Enters U.S. Health Care Debate
"I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the National Health Service,"
he told The Guardian. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 7:14 pm

Backlash: More companies pull ads from Beck show

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 8:34 pm

Malkin and Fox News Are Stalking Children Again The right-wing satellite of crazy has evolved from being a silly assembly of sore losers to a dangerous posse -- a rabble of misinformed cranks who have no problem targeting children.



Read more

Wednesday August 12, 2009, 11:38 pm
Ahh Blue a reference to the pathetic town hall meeting Obama held where he lied and lied again .... So staged and phoney = the little girl he used was actually the daughter of a huge Obama supporter .... they had met before - even his daughters and for someone with his standing to stage such a scene full of lies and use a child to boot only goes to demonstrate the absolute hyprocracy of your current government .....

Thursday August 13, 2009, 6:18 am
But Northern....he is "the one" we are not supposed to question him.

Thursday August 13, 2009, 6:36 pm
World famous scientist calls every RepubliCON/Libertarian a liar ...\

a href="http://www.care2.com/news/member/434996229/1219730" rel="nofollow" >

Professor Stephen Hawking Enters U.S. Health Care Debate
"I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the National Health Service," he told The Guardian. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.

Thursday August 13, 2009, 6:59 pm
"your current government" Thats right its not yours Northern, what's the matter you jealous? Usally when someone goes on and on about something thats not theirs it means there jealous that someone has something they don't..
Ms. Nancy no one said anything about him not being questioned. Thats just another talking point that comes from your right wing leaders.

Thursday August 13, 2009, 7:36 pm
Who is Northern N? He lives in British Columbia Province which has a history of being governed by a sort of Libertarian political party known as "Social Credit" .So I'm not surprised at his kind of ranting against other Canadian policies The folks I knew in B.C. told me no one could explain "Social Credit" except they said it was about dismantling government whenever possible. The fact that he holds three professorship chairs without himself having attended college seems to fit in with the peculiar 'Social Credit" people. While he blathers prolifically I believe he is harmless.

Friday August 14, 2009, 4:51 pm
Personally, I'd rather stop the disruptors with a baseball bat.

Friday August 14, 2009, 5:10 pm
years ago a couple of times I chased skinheads out of town when they came to disrupt a civil rights demonstration in Milwaukee. I happened to be carrying a cane made from a chemistry lab ring stand.
They never showed up again.

Friday August 14, 2009, 7:07 pm
AMEN NORTHERN! This and everything else you have posted! This American thanks you from the bottom of a very grateful heart and salutes you as well! And so will many others once they know of your words!
God Bless You!

**********"Have you all lost your minds? Maybe you have not found them yet - have to hope so. It was several UNION members who attacked a black man for selling items that did not support health care - buttons etc. They called him a 'nigger' and attacked him!
Do you realize that this is a loss to your rights of freedom of speech? Do you understand that what this health care non=plan calls for is 'selective care'? Someone else decides whether you are entitled to care instead of your doctor? HAVE YOU EVEN TAKEN THE TIME TO READ THIS BILL? It is in American English and surprise surprise even this Canadian understood it ....
Shame on all of you for trying to step out your own rights to free speech - you in the end will deserve what you get. Even your basic freedoms in America today were not free. They were won for you by people who gave their very lives to protect them over the many years past. Perhaps you should all take ONE SECOND TO TRY AND REMEMBER THAT!
These are your parents and grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbours and friends who are going to these meetings. It is Obama and his gang that are calling for Acorn and Union Members to attend and cause trouble .... SHAME ON EVERY ONE OF YOU WHO DID NOT RESEARCH THIS ARTICLE AND FOLLOWED LIKE BLIND SHEEP ...."

Friday August 14, 2009, 7:13 pm
PSST...You...yes you...yeah...you, over there.
You're one of those naysayers aren't you?
You obviously haven't done much if any of your homework yet have you.
Go ahead...it won't hurt you...take a look.
C'mon.
What's wrong...are you afraid of the truth>?
Go on...that's right...just one little click will do it......

Oh and by the way...there are lots more where this came from.

http://phoenixteaparty.ning.com/video/town-hall-with-jeff-flake

Friday August 14, 2009, 7:17 pm
and just in case that link doesn't work.

you can go right to you tube.

don't worry...you'll be fine...i

especially f you can handle the truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yATXJkgJkQ

Friday August 14, 2009, 7:29 pm
Excellent Terri. Thank You for that. I'm so proud to see so many average Americans finally getting off their rears to stop this madness. I love the lady who said "I'm watching you" and "I want you on the same plan I'm on"

Friday August 14, 2009, 7:50 pm
Thanks...Nancy...really appreciate the support we're getting from our neighbors/family up north!

You're so right....too many Americans have very very big rears...and it's way past time they all get themselves on their feet and working to get our country back. They'll feel and live much better all the way around!

Our townhall started off with PRAYER...PRAYER!!! and in a public school!!! Then we all said our PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE...then we listened to our NATIONAL ANTHEM as we stood looking at our FLAG with our hands over our hearts! MAJOR CHILLS...NOW THAT'S WHY THIS COUNTRY WAS GREAT...AND WHY IT WILL BE GREAT AGAIN!

That video was just an inkling...and the way you saw the crowd is the way the crowd remained. It was wonderful!!! And for those naysayers...there are indeed a lot more -- a LOT more -- just like this one. For years...all the press does is show and talk about the negative.

We started at 6:00 p.m. and were scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. We went until almost 9:00 p.m. And, as stated, the entire evening was just as you saw it on that short video. There were a few with their own agendas -- meaning they didn't stay on topic -- as this was supposed to be focused on the so-called healthcare bill.

The gymnasium was packed (shh...don't tell...beyond capacity) but the fire marshalls were monitoring everything. They ended up turning away over 500 people! And ohmygosh...there were no riots...just lots of disappointed people, most of whom stuck around to try to get a seat if anybody left at any point before the townhall was over. This was pulled together by the bald headed gentleman who got a quick look at. He, along with a lot of us, wrote Jeff to let him know we were very very unhappy he missed the first vote on Cap and Trade. Jeff called that gentleman...as well as numerous other constituents who'd written to him on the same subject...and asked that man...so what do you want to do about this? The townhall was the result! Outstanding to say the least. Jeff apologized to everyone about that missed vote.

There's a video out there of one -- and it's not name-calling -- it's fact lady representative (Democrat) who got on her phone -- on her phone -- after the attendee had started asking her question. Even when she got off the phone, she acted as though she was really rather put out that she even had to do the job she's paid all too well for.

And I forget who right now...but it was on Fox News...one rep decided no townhalls. She's too busy stumping for her new book.

So...again...thank you! God Bless You! and you, too, Northern N! and all other Canadians who understand the dangers of what's going on in the USA! Keep us in your prayers.

Friday August 14, 2009, 7:55 pm
I have to Join the teaparty to "know the truth" ? What kind of truth is that?

Friday August 14, 2009, 8:02 pm
Is a death threat to the President or to an elected official free speech? Rachel Maddow cited about 12 of them.

Friday August 14, 2009, 8:04 pm
My son is in the National Guard. He thinks we should call it out.

Friday August 14, 2009, 8:12 pm
You all OK with that teabg then having been blessed by the supreme Honcho. Who need health care when He's around.

Saturday August 15, 2009, 7:04 am
48 years ago Reagan said it best. Now it is back again in the form of Oboma care.

From the 1961 Operation Coffee Cup Campaign against Socialized Medicine as proposed by the Democrats, then a private citizen Ronald Reagan Speaks out against socialized medicine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

When did opposing government health care become a sin?
When did the American government become a religion?
What would JESUS say and do?, Are you serious? They have stooped to bashing Christians beliefs. Unbelievable!!
Jesus did not take from many to give to a few.
Jesus said to them: Because of your unbelief. For, amen I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, Remove from hence hither, and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible to you.

Saturday August 15, 2009, 1:59 pm
there isn't a damn thing wrong with CIVIL disobedience. there IS a LOT wrong with creating a mob scene, regardLESS of anyone's faith or political view. if one DESIRES to be taken seriously, then one must behave like a RATIONAL ADULT.

Saturday August 15, 2009, 2:37 pm
For the good of all I suggest we leave Jesus out of this. He didn't condone violence either.

Saturday August 15, 2009, 2:53 pm
perish by your heat

Saturday August 15, 2009, 3:03 pm
Yes, then a private citizen Ronald Reagan Spoke out against socialized medicine. And then when he got to be President he took away all the money that Mental Hospitals needed to keep running and threw all the mentally ill people out into the steet. Which is one reason we have 3 times more homeless people in america today. People tend to forget the bad things Ronald Regan done for heath care and this country.

Saturday August 15, 2009, 3:30 pm
No Northern, I am not an atheist. I just believe reliegous beliefs have no place when we are trying to further political beliefs and agendas unless we are trying to "kill off" those we disagree with.

Saturday August 15, 2009, 3:47 pm
You are absolutely right Carrie ... I do not know if you follow Lou Dobbs but he did a very interesting report on health care systems in other countries ... I think Australia and New Zealand were ranked badly - very low percentage of people happy with that .... This plan that Obama is trying to shove at you is a very bad plan ... Why do they not get a committee going to look into these systems to see what works and what does not work. As I keep saying Canada's system is a very bad one and once the government gets involved it gets even worse ....

Saturday August 15, 2009, 3:55 pm
Lou Dobbs is an uniformed, self serving fool!

Saturday August 15, 2009, 4:24 pm
Actually we NZers are generally happy with our equivilent of the NHS. I personally have had two rotator cuff operations; only waited about 6 weeks for each and it didn't cost me a cent. Lou Dobbs couldn't find his ass with both hands and a map.

Saturday August 15, 2009, 4:40 pm
John, I love you! Please just reassure me and say there isn't really a map to that place!

Tuesday August 18, 2009, 5:27 pm
WATCH: Man Who Brought Assault Rifle To Obama Rally Was Part Of Radio Stunt

The man with the semi-automatic (referred to in interviews as "Chris," no last name) was spotted at the protest by CNN news cameras, in the middle of a Q&A. Today, his interviewer -- Ernest Hancock of conservative talk radio show Declare Your Independence With Ernest Hancock -- went on CNN and explained to host Rick Sanchez that he and Chris were actually in the middle of a radio broadcast. Hancock, also packing heat at the rally, had invited Chris to come down the protest with his rifle to be interviewed. The two men had known each other for two years, through their work for presidential hopeful Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas).

During the segment on CNN, Rick Sanchez said, "the more we look into this, the more it appears that it was really planned." Hancock concurred: "Oh, it's more planned than you think." In addition to scheduling the interview, Hancock had also informed the local police force.

As the interview continued, Rick Sanchez loudly exclaimed, "This was a publicity stunt!"

"Oh absolutely," Hancock responded.

Sanchez pushed on, "isn't there something terribly disingenuous about putting people on like that? And isn't there also something a little bit... dangerous about playing these kinda games--"

"Oh, it's not a game," Chris interjected.

"---with what I imagine is a loaded weapon," Sanchez continued.....

Chris is also featured in a YouTube video produced by the libertarian group Freedom's Phoenix. In this video he expounds further on his right to bear arms. He also explains that he is "absolutely totally against health care... health care in this way, in this manner, stealing it from people. I don't think that's appropriate."

Wednesday August 19, 2009, 12:27 am
Do they need more fire power or are they actually ruling now? Is Congress going to be prevented ?

Wednesday August 19, 2009, 2:10 pm
Phoenix police helped Obama gun-toters, radio host admits

Wednesday August 19, 2009, 4:46 pm
is it beginning to look to the international community as if the United states is being taken over by a minority dictatorship as the President and the democratic Party apparently are being forced to abandon the main provisions of health care reform? Also as to what happened to the final cap and trade bill?

Thursday August 20, 2009, 2:35 pm
Obama's health care plan will be written by a committee whose head, John Conyers, says he doesn't understand it. It'll be passed by Congress that has not read it, signed by a president who smokes, funded by a Treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, overseen by a Surgeon General who is obese, and financed by a country that's nearly broke. What could possibly go wrong?

Thursday August 20, 2009, 2:44 pm
I could say something very nasty to the lady but as this is Care 2 and she is a fefmale I'll simply ask what are your qualifications?

Thursday August 20, 2009, 2:47 pm
Qualifications for what?

Thursday August 20, 2009, 2:53 pm
Check this out Northern

NEWS RELEASE
MSNBC PLAYS RACIAL POLITICS WITH DECEPTIVE EDITING, SAYS SAF




BELLEVUE, WA – The Second Amendment Foundation today accused MSNBC of using deceptively-edited video from a Phoenix, Arizona anti-tax rally on Monday to invent a racial stereotype in its on-going effort to demonize and marginalize American firearms owners as “racists.”

The MSNBC video, narrated by reporter Contessa Brewer, appearing with “Morning Meeting” host Dylan Ratigan, shows an AR-15 rifle being carried over a man’s shoulder. The man is part of a crowd protesting near the national convention of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, where President Barack Obama spoke. Brewer notes on camera, “Yes, there are Second Amendment rights, for sure, but also there are questions about whether this has a racial overtone. I mean, here you have a man of color in the presidency and white people showing up with guns strapped to their waistÂ…”

“What MSNBC purposely did not reveal with the deliberately doctored video is that the man carrying that sport-utility rifle was an African-American,” said SAF founder Alan Gottlieb. “MSNBC knows the man was black, yet all they showed in a brief film clip was a close-up of the rifle against the man’s neatly-pressed dress shirt. It was impossible to tell the man’s race.

“This is a detestable attempt to manipulate public sentiment,” he continued, “in MSNBC’s continuing effort to perpetuate a stereotype of gun owners as white racists. It was even suggested during the segment by MSNBC culture critic Toure that it would not be surprising ‘if we see somebody get a chance and take a chance and really try to hurt’ the president.

“By irresponsibly fomenting this kind of racial divisiveness through the use of carefully-edited video,” Gottlieb stated, “MSNBC is not simply reporting news, it is provoking a reaction. If any harm comes to the president, MSNBC’s hate-mongering should be blamed.

“I wonder,” Gottlieb conclude, “if Keith Olbermann is going to name MSNBC as the worst news network in the world.”

The Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org) is the nation’s oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 650,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control
-END-

Thursday August 20, 2009, 2:55 pm
Frank...newsflash....conservatives are the majority in the USA

Thursday August 20, 2009, 6:35 pm
Well they hold a lot of firepower and there have been enough death threats. it is established then these folks are the majority and the polls in favor of a public option have been fakes? I want to be sure that your argument is a fact and not an argument. That is what I mean by qualifications.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 8:44 am
I mean, here you have a man of color in the presidency and white people showing up with guns strapped to their waistÂ…”

There was more then one man in the crowd with guns and they were white. I think its a viable question to ask if it is racial.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 8:49 am
Polls say...

Wednesday, August 19, 2009
39% of Americans Are Certified Imbeciles

Why? For that is the percentage of Americans who do not realize that Medicare is a government-run health insurance program. Another 15% are morons who are "not sure."

That is 54%; a majority of Americans do not understand that Medicare is a government program. We are changing from a democracy to a true idiotcracy.

It is mind-boggling that people are seriously that stupid or that poorly informed. How is it possible to have a viable discussion about health insurance with such citizens.

We're living in a time when people will more readily believe an easily punctured lie than a demonstrable truth.

Most of them are conservatives.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 9:08 am
Cynthia, you must not have seen this

On Tuesday, MSNBC’s Contessa Brewer fretted over health care reform protesters legally carrying guns: "A man at a pro-health care reform rally...wore a semiautomatic assault rifle on his shoulder and a pistol on his hip....there are questions about whether this has racial overtones....white people showing up with guns." Brewer failed to mention the man she described was black.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 9:11 am
lol....that's right cynthia...the majority is wrong and you are right....okay

Saturday August 22, 2009, 9:28 am
"legally carrying guns have racial overtones" Why was the black man carrying a rifle? Did anyone ask him when there was more than one white carrying rifle? You all are getting a kick out of this aren't you. Rednecks doing dirty work for the suits and ties. Conservatism is so great, isn't it.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 9:43 am
Good for you NRL. So rednecks and thugs are in the majority.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 10:52 am
Why would you ask him anything? Thinking Americans are in the majority.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 10:59 am
I repeat N R L or Nancy,
There was more then one man in the crowd with guns and they were white. I think its a viable question to ask if it is racial.
This was in answer to you post about the black man not being mentioned.
You truely are a conservative.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 11:04 am
Why? I can't imagine asking anyone why they are carrying a gun. It is obvious to me. We carry guns for protection. Yes, thank you. I am truely conservative.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 11:09 am
NRL writes, "Why would you ask him anything? Thinking Americans are in the majority."

What does that even mean? You really are a conservative.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 11:16 am
NRL writes,"Why? I can't imagine asking anyone why they are carrying a gun. It is obvious to me. We carry guns for protection."

What are you so afraid of?

Saturday August 22, 2009, 11:22 am
I'm not afraid of anything. I'm prepared. I also carry a fire extinguisher in my car and we have smoke alarms in our house.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 11:25 am
opps. I typed R instead of E when I edited my profile.

Saturday August 22, 2009, 11:30 am

"Many promoters of health-care reform believe that people have an intrinsic ethical right to health care—to equal access to doctors, medicines and hospitals. While all of us empathize with those who are sick, how can we say that all people have more of an intrinsic right to health care than they have to food or shelter? Health care is a service that we all need, but just like food and shelter it is best provided through voluntary and mutually beneficial market exchanges. A careful reading of both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution will not reveal any intrinsic right to health care, food or shelter. That's because there isn't any. This "right" has never existed in America."

Whole Foods CEO, John Mackey in arecent Wall Street Journal op-ed on health care.

Whole Foods Backlash & Boycott: Bloggers Outraged Over CEO's Anti-'ObamaCare' Column

Saturday August 22, 2009, 1:19 pm
It is an ancient right among civilized people. The right to have a doctor is stated in the Talmud.

Sunday August 23, 2009, 7:15 am
Sunday, August 23, 2009 Email to a Friend ShareThisAdvertisement
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 27% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-one percent (41%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -14. These figures mark the lowest Approval Index rating yet recorded for this President. The previous low of -12 was reached on July 30 (see trends).

Prior to today, the number who Strongly Approved of the President’s performance had never fallen below 29%. Some of the decline has come from within the President’s own party. Just 49% of Democrats offer such a positive assessment of the President at this time.

At the other end of the spectrum, today’s total for Strongly Disapprove matches the highest level yet recorded. The 41% mark was reached just once before and that came one week ago today. Seventy percent (70%) of Republicans now Strongly Disapprove along with 49% of those not affiliated with either major party.

Sunday August 23, 2009, 7:45 am
Addressed to Ne L: You have declared yourself as a Conservative and in the Majority.
But I have not yet read your position on whether Medicare should be abolished or taken over by a private company. Are you pledging to avoid going on Medicare or do you think a campaign to abolish it is sufficient?
If you have already answered the question I apologize for having missed reading it.

Sunday August 23, 2009, 7:52 am
To answer Frank; I think the entire healthcare systems needs to be revamped. We need common sense solutions. And I do support privatizing Medicare.

Sunday August 23, 2009, 9:34 am
You are a privatizer. (All bosses should be private, not elected subject only to the power to buy)
What are common sense solutions beyond that?

Sunday August 23, 2009, 9:58 am
Adding three words to that parenthetical: ( All bosses should be private, not elected but subject only to the power to buy and sell).