Friday September 11, 2009, 5:21 pm
There are all sorts of actions that cannot be undone and damage that cannot be fixed or repaired. This is a particularly horrific example of that. It is because we feel so badly for someone who was persecuted, someone so worthy of being treated so much better, that we must learn never to behave this way again. It's time for humanity to take a giant leap forward, because we can and we must learn the lessons of history. There's no telling how much permanent damage we have done that is less obvious at this moment. It's time to treat everyone the way we should - with dignity and respect. We're long overdue. We cannot afford to lose any heroes - ever again.

Friday September 11, 2009, 5:31 pm
They darn sure should apoligise but the question is ..how much has it changed and while somethings have changed in that area it still has a ways to go...Thanx for the story Panda I very much enjoyed it

Friday September 11, 2009, 5:38 pm
It's about time for the apology, but it's too late for Turing. When will we start THINKING before we bully and persecute our fellow man for being different? In some way, each of us is different than someone else. Who are we to judge another because they don't dance the way we do? I just don't get it.

Friday September 11, 2009, 5:50 pm
Discrimination must Stop - this is the 21st Century & long past time to become Enlightened!

Friday September 11, 2009, 6:15 pm
Let's not forget Oscar Wilde who was sentenced to two years of constant hard labor because he was gay, and died soon after the brutal effects of his imprisonment. So much cruelty because of the fear of some thing different then a non-gay person chooses for their life.

People often get angry when I say this, but I believe it nonetheless, sex is a normal and natural bodily function. Humans have had gay relationships since we have been walking on planet earth. It harms no one, it is condemned by religion and governments because it does not add to the population of either religion or government. So we have created a mythology about gay people, and the current discussions are identical to ones once used to deny both freedom and rights to African slaves. Our simple minded narrow way of thinking about gayness (?) leads us to some how comforting ourselves that THOSE people will burn in hell while a true believer will waltz in heaven. What nonsense and what continuing horrors we perpetrate against other humans in the name of god or country or both. Sad creatures to have hearts not open enough or generous enough to accept that we are humans - period. Different and individual - but human. Btw...what we call homosexuality is seen commonly and openly in the animal world. Human rights - respect for the dignity of one another should be a constant and on going goal, without qualification.

Friday September 11, 2009, 6:24 pm
To be open and honest..i've slept with men and women..and enjoyed both..its not a big deal.If we were all honest ,we might well admit to ourselves that no one is 100% heterosexual.These days I find women much cuter than men..but if I felt differently one day ..and if Jon Stewart came on to me..I might well go for it.

Friday September 11, 2009, 6:33 pm
it is disgusting how humans think anyone or anything different than them is wrong. it angers me how much religions are responsible for the cruel treatment of gays. god made them gay and the religious poeple want to try to say god is against them. pretty stupid if i say so myself.

it is time to accept all poeple.

Friday September 11, 2009, 7:24 pm
Thanks Panda.

Friday September 11, 2009, 8:13 pm
Part of it is rulers created peoples fears and played on them. Kaiser Wilhelm II was said to be homosexual.
The worst crime in the South so-caled miscegnation was practiced all the time by owners.

Friday September 11, 2009, 8:53 pm
Why would I care who sleeps with whom, when I am not personally involved? Or why should my sex habits concern anyone who is not in MY bed? It is stupid idea, as well as a marriage. I didn't get married because I don't think I must officially declare who is my preferred sexual partner.
I don't want a state, a church, relatives, neighbors, friends... in my bed. It is not a public place. Let personal be personal.
And relationships are complicated enough with two people involved.

Friday September 11, 2009, 9:46 pm
No one should be judged based on sexual orientation alone. There are many great doctors, scientists and architects who are gays. They don't harm anyone. As for Aids, gays were the victims of medical experiments!

Friday September 11, 2009, 10:08 pm
Believing in God, as I do, I acknowledge that the words "Love one another", does not have the word "IF" after it.

Friday September 11, 2009, 10:56 pm
Racism exists in many colors. It is usually brought by unhappy people who feel envious for people being happy in a way the unhappy cannot. The racists often use their religious arguments against homosexuals. When Jesus said that he dislikes men lying with other men he just expressed his feeling about this. He did not condemn it. Another point is that the masses with their 'common sense' always put down the minorities. This is the reason why democracy they way it is practiced, is unjust and leads to abuse.

Saturday September 12, 2009, 5:07 am
Some profound comments here!!

Panda...I agree. Each person has both sexual characteristics in us, just that one sexual orientation usually dominates more so than the other. Having been raised by a parent who allowed me to be in touch with my sexuality with no shame, I was able to easily make a choice in my orientation as a teenager and understand those feelings. If I had had a parent who was out of touch with their own sexuality, I could have been a very confused adult today, passing on homophobic fears to my children. This denial of our own sexuality leads to the sick society we have today. In other words, that which I hate so much in you is that which I cannot bear to see within myself.

Julie...Amen. Religion has done more to warp our attitude toward sex than any other organization or belief system. What's ironic is that so many religious leaders and practicing Christians seem to hide sexual dysfunction and lead hypocritical lives. Religion is too rigid for me and controlling for me.

Frank...Good point. Like religion, these rulers wanted everyone to follow their warped outlook toward sexuality, yet practiced something different than what they dictated for others. Many of these rulers had no more business being a leader than, say, George W. Bush.

Saturday September 12, 2009, 5:16 am
"Racism exists in many colors. It is usually brought by unhappy people who feel envious for people being happy in a way the unhappy cannot."

Ralph X...Excellent statement. Yes, there are many reasons for racism: inherited training, religious practice, envy and fear of the unknown (fear of oneself). Until we become comfortable in our own skin (confidence, love) and start thinking for ourselves, we will continue to have a confused, sick society that shuns anything that doesn't seem familiar and comfortable. I am confident this is changing as useless belief systems die off and the majority have a healthier outlook toward humanity.

Saturday September 12, 2009, 8:47 am
Ignorance causes so much damage, it is rather tooooooo late to apologise to this person...

Saturday September 12, 2009, 12:14 pm
Noted , thanks !1

Saturday September 12, 2009, 12:14 pm
I agree, Chaz, but at least this public apology may be the evidence that something is changing in people´s attitude about homosexuality... or at least that's what I want to believe...
TY panda!

Saturday September 12, 2009, 1:29 pm
Thanks Pandas.
It's worth something to get an apology. Hopefully it brings attention to this ongoing problem of attitudes. Makes me sick. Some of the nicest and birghtest people I know are among this group.

Saturday September 12, 2009, 2:24 pm
I just got done reading "Nineteen Minutes" by Jodi Picoult. It is on what a person experiences in punishment by society for being different. A scene depicts an inquiry into a school's policy and protocol on bullying by children. Based on that I would like to see a program that promotes written protocols in school discipline to deal with incidents of bullying. But the mother of abuse is prejudice and the father, lust for power. Dealing with prejudice starts I think by recognizing it as bad behavior; bad speech and bad mental hygiene. We must come to acknowledge persons' boundaries as sacred. Love does not necessarily spring from the heart at first but begins with good behavior to each other. The categorical imperative, living as ones life can become an universal law or acting as if there were a God is a situation from which true love can spring

End of sermon

Sunday September 13, 2009, 12:25 am
Please go look at my Share on this subject:

Take a look at this Share:

Alert: Gay genius given overdue apology by British Prime Minister
(2 comments) — Petition still open to be signed: Sign the "International Petition", the plain "Petition" is only for UK.
LONDON, England (CNN) -- British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has issued a posthumous apology for the "appalling" treatment of Alan Turing, the B...

On this Share, is given the entirety of the speech of apology by Gordon Brown, British Prime Minister.

Just recently, a British Gay activist and computer geek, noting that there was almost nothing mentioned about the contributions of Turing, during upcoming "Anniversary" celebrations of WWII Victory, started the Petition. He was rather surprised that the British govt responded so fast: but THOUSANDS of people had signed the Petition in just a few days! {There is ALSO an International Petition, that YOU can sign! Please do! Go to my Share for the link, if you haven't seen it.....} So this is PROOF OF WHAT ONE PETITION CAN REALLY DO; WHAT ONE SINGLE PERSON CAN DO!!!

Also, my group I host called "Left Bank", has now changed its name to "Left Bank Supports LGBTQ Rights!"; and you are invited to join the group if that interests you.
LGBTQ {often just GLBT}, is for Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Trans-sexual, Queer. Some think it is more respectful of women, to put Lesbian before Gay. "Queer" is for those who are uncertain, un-decided, exploring, etc.

Also it would be cool if you'd put my Share in your own groups and mailings. I think this Official Apology is of real significance. Something of a milestone.

Sunday September 13, 2009, 12:47 am
Actually, Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuality; about "men lying with other men".
I believe that was SAINT PAUL. Who perverted Christian teachings, some say. Jesus was actually big on NO DIVORCE; which is generally ignored by most Protestant Christians. People pick and choose what they WANT to use.
It is thot that Jesus and the "beloved disciple", John, that "lay in his bosom", were hmmmmmm.......?

Also, in the Old Testament, David and Jonathan, whose "love surpasseth the love of women", DEFINITELY were.......!

It is in the Old Testament, however, that the biggest denunciations of homosexuality occur. Go figure. Again, the O.T. and the N.T. were written by MEN, not by God, and at several different times by many different hands. Not to mention editors, translators, emenders, and even outright forgers.

Some scholars have stated, that the O.T. attacks on homosexuals referred to temple prostitutes {of both sexes}, and therefore the issue was a COMPETING religious belief.....
Anyway, it was in a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SOCIAL CONTEXT. You were condemned as a sinner, also, if you ate SHELLFISH {seafood that doesn't have fins and tails}. This OBVIOUSLY CANNOT be used as any sort of guide for today.

Religions found that the best way to CONTROL people, was thru their sexuality.... making them feel GUILTY for "natural" feelings that EVERYBODY has, and therefore creating a phoney "NEED" to be "absolved"....... by an Authority Figure, your local religious authority.......
Physical punishment of a few "bad examples", like imprisonment, burning at the stake or stoning; for the rest, horrific Guilt and Shame and Public Humiliation and the threat of such, will keep them all in line and obedient to Authority.....
Religion and the State collaborate in this.....

Sunday September 13, 2009, 12:54 am
"Turing is considered one of Britain's greatest mathematicians, a genius who is credited with inventing the Bombe, a code-breaking machine that deciphered messages encoded by German Enigma machines during World War II.

He went on to develop the Turing machine, a theory that automatic computation cannot solve all mathematical problems, which is considered the basis of modern computing.

Petition seeks apology for Enigma code-breaker Turing
Leaders mark 70th anniversary of WWII

Last month, the curious lack of public recognition for Turing's contribution to the war effort and computing in general motivated computer programmer John Graham-Cumming to campaign on his behalf.

The author of the "Geek Atlas," a travel guide for technology enthusiasts, started an online petition, and soon attracted high-profile signatories including scientist Richard Dawkins, actor Stephen Fry, author Ian McEwan and philosopher A.C. Grayling.

"I was surprised by both the number of people who signed and the fast response from the government," Graham-Cumming told CNN. He said the Prime Minister had called him personally to relay news of the apology.

Stories about calls for a British apology were carried in newspapers in France, Switzerland, Spain, Austria, Portugal Poland and the Czech Republic. Supporters set up an international petition which attracted more than 10,000 signatures."

Sunday September 13, 2009, 1:03 am
Note: Gordon Brown's historically-unprecedented apology, came about ENTIRELY BECAUSE OF AN ON-LINE PETITION.
If it hadn't been for Mr. John Graham-Cumming starting the Petition, THIS NEVER, NEVER WOULD'VE HAPPENED.
See? the right Petition in the right time & place..... CAN bring about some change......

Sunday September 13, 2009, 3:19 am
thanks panda great story

Sunday September 13, 2009, 3:47 am
Thanking BMutiny for all the info and also taking time to review Biblical material on the subject. A few years ago
I was in a Biblical study group and my contributions were on the books of the Bible as literature.But I have been
entertaining the idea Paul was psychopathic. He could have been a serial killer before he was "converted".
He begins his story with seeing a light and going into a trance. Whether that was the case or that is how he embellished his story; either way is an indicator. The missionary idea; completely changing people's identities
comparing it to death reflects a great desire for power over others while avoiding the arduous tasks of bloodshed. The fact of him not having a companion wife. The intrusiveness of the Christian church , based much on Paul's teaching gives one pause.

Tuesday September 15, 2009, 5:55 pm
It is so tragic that this brilliant man was so cruelly persecuted that he committed suicide at the age of 41 !

And, as BMutiny says, it was a petition and one man's tireless efforts that brought about the amazing apology.
Mr. John Graham-Cumming has even approached Queen Elizabeth to ask that Alan Turing receive a posthuous knighthood.

I discovered his story on a NYTimes blog that also includes a YouTube video showing how the German Enigma machine created the encrypted messages that needed to be deciphered: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/posthumous-apology-to-gay-code-breaker-who-helped-defeat-nazi-germany/?ref=europe

Tuesday September 15, 2009, 6:48 pm
Turing invented the concept of the Turing machine that in turn gave rise to the idea that there are mathematical propositions that are true but can never be proven .(Goedel) The hypothetical machine is a basic algorithm for computer design.

Wednesday September 16, 2009, 3:26 am
Kudos for Marion and her comment: "In other words, that which I hate so much in you is that which I cannot bear to see within myself." That is really the core of racism & homophobia ! It blinds them from seeing the humanity in the 'other.'

Kit, too, for reminding us of Oscar Wilde's tragic demise, body and mind broken by cruel punishment.

No to morality police and policing ! Let consentling adults live their lives in peace. Freedom from intolerance, religious or other.


In the petition, which 30,000 signed (& isposted on the prime minister’s Web site), Mr. Graham-Cumming wrote:

Alan Turing was the greatest computer scientist ever born in Britain. He laid the foundations of computing.."