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A Dog Is Worth More Than a Palestinian Child

US Politics & Gov't  (tags: war, news, media, gaza, dogs, childeren, Middle East )

- 3731 days ago -
When dogs get abused, the civilized world comes to a standstill and the criminal is severely punished. When a child in Gaza is killed, the world talks for a while because no one wants to look as though they are doing nothing but in reality


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Ben O (135)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 4:37 am
This is such a tragedy; making me feel so very helpless!

Elm Morrison (357)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 5:42 am
The author, Mishal Kanoo, is an embittered and twisted individual. By trying to compare the world's reaction to an abused dog to the world's reaction of the Palestinian slaughter is absurd.

In the event this author suffers from some serious handicap (challenged in some way which is not readily apparent) I would point out there has been and always will be an outcry and action against any nation that causes suffering to another nation, UNLESS, there is nothing financially to gain.

The plight of the Palestinians have made headlines all over the world. Iran is funding and supplying Hamas with weapons to kill Israelis. The Israelis in turn are faced with a Hamas manifesto that clearly states: 'Israel is to be wiped off the planet'. Now when one has a jihad faction right on ones' doorstep, taking pot shots all the time what does one do? The Hamas are damn clever - they hide among the civilians.

Books and more books have been written about the Israelis 'theft' of land, especially the original 'theft' of Arab lands. I wish the readers would educate themselves. More than 90% of this so-called orignal 'theft' of land was legally purchased by the Israelis, in the times of the first settlements. The massive exodus of Arabs from 'Palestine' was not the fault of or at the instigation of the Jews. Study history and check! A massive rumour was spread that any Arab who stayed would be slaughtered. And do you know who spread these rumours? The Arabs themselves. Jews pleaded for them to stay - but it was like a stampede.

The Palestinian so-called refugee problem could have been solved long, long ago. Israel is surrounded by folks whose main aim in life is to kill every Jew. Iran is a war mongering tyrant - with itchy fingers on the triggers. When the Arabs 'fled' because of the bull-sh...t rumours of imminent genocide by the Israealis, a massive refugee camp resulted - with appalling condition, misery, heart ache, lack of medical care, where neither human nor a 'DOG' could live.

What has the Arab world done about this. NOTHING Except to buy more ammunition and posters to hurry along the demise of the state of Israel. What they could have done is this: They could have absorbed these unfortunate people into their countries - there is more than enough space! But not - rather fuel the flames (it suits their Jihad purposes) and keep the war alive - even in so far as to fund the Palestinian Hamas).

The Arabs continually bleat about the Paletinians, but by God, do they actually help their own people? NO. Their help consists of arms and munitions, of hate slogans and more.

If the world allows Israel to be wiped out, it will be accused of another holocaust, and rightly so. If the Arabs allow their own people to be used as cannon fodder in this game of 'Jihad' against the Israelies the world is silent!

I have yet to read the truthful history behind the current situation. The fngers are always pointed at Israel. I would ask the Arabs and the rest of the world who can read to go back to school, and study your history, without bias, look for the facts.

And when you realise the truth of how your own people have sold you out, and are still now using you as cannon fodder, then, and only then will you be agents of change and peace.

The Palestinians and the Jews have suffered enough - and so have the ~~dogs~~ caught up in this horrific situation.

I for one see the life of a dog as equal to any of a human, perhaps even more so. No animal is capable of the malice that we as humans display.

For the sanctimonious, who rave on about innocent lives being lost - your governments are not telling the whole story. If this whole story was known things would change, but then again the Arabs may just cut off all oil supplies, hey? Better to go tut-tut, and let the flames burn, let one more child die - let the numbers of orhpans and grieving parents grow exponentially, as long as we have petrol/gas in our fuel tanks.

The British sold Palestine twice over and with the French they are founding fathers of the current conflict. Anyone ever heard of the Balfour Declaration? Political duplicity abounded then, as it abounds now.

Hail to the oil hungry west. Hail to the Middle East that holds the world to ransom.

May God help all the victims of war - for mankind certainly does not. Rwanda had nothing to offer the world - and millions were slaughtered. Yes read the word MILLIONS, not hundreds or thousands, MILLIONS.

In the Middle East thousands are slaughtered, funded by all sides. In the centre - MacBeth's couldron of boiling oil.

And this author has the nerve to write a headline 'A dog is worth more than a Palestinian child'!!! It should have read: 'A couldron of oil and a pot of lies are worth more than a Palestinian Child'.

I'm so sick of catchy, rubbish and war mongering headlines. Sir, you are not doing the world any good with such nonsense reporting. Go find a job in a rag mag where nonsense is eagerly read and believed by the ignorant masses of society.

Oh, I'm neither Jewish nor Arab - simply a scholar of history - I study the facts before I shoot my mouth off with a disrespectful, but catchy headlines. It is headlines like this that can rightly be called 'hate-speech, and inflammatory. You have not done anyone a service.


De L (321)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 6:10 am
This is like comparing apples to oranges. War is a sick subject -always has been. Men and boys are sent of to fight wars that aren't even theirs - God only knows that Canada has lost it's share just in the last while. However - animal abuse has been a very closed subject since the beginning of time. And it is only now that we are seeing some judges with guts to start a change - yay for Judge Rooney!!! Nothing that causes pain should be tolerated - how about some outrage over the sexually abused children and the pedophiles that should be in jail - and don't even get me started on child porn!!! All I am trying to say is that we should all pick our causes - but not at the expense of each other. We are trying to do the same thing here - to make changes for the good and the right.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 6:14 am
We all have our own causes here on Care 2 but it doesn't mean that we don't sign each others petitions because we want a better world for all. So it is stupid to say that a dog is worth more than a child. It is nonsense.All those that suffer pain and cruelty in whatever form are cared about.Noted. Thanks Eureka.

Pamylle G (458)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 6:26 am
A new consciousness has emerged where many of us do not believe the life of a human is intrinsicially worth more than another life form.

However, the author of the article is speaking in the older, dominant paradigm where dogs are low in the human cultural hierarchy. He is speaking in language which expresses the terrible irony of a clear disregard for human life.

My heart is hurt when any life is made to suffer.

Thank you, wonderful Sigrid, for posting, and thanks to dear Eureka for forwarding.

Pamylle G (458)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 6:31 am
Oh, yes - I want you all to know I have been listening to WBAI & Democracy Now! for several hours this morning. There are very vocal protests happening as I type, in New York, and all over the country. A few are trying to flash signs at Obama. There are MANY Americans - Jews included - who are angry with these atrocities against the people of Gaza and footing the bill, at that.

Tamara P (68)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 7:04 am
I understand the frustration

Elm Morrison (357)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 7:11 am
Nick, neither of our comments were posted on the site. Ja well, no fine...

Elm Morrison (357)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 7:13 am
My heart goes out to all the civilians caught in the cross fire. May God protect you.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 7:23 am
Thank you Erica, you have calmed me down with your eloquent and sensible comment to this irresponsible piece of journalism. You are a star and I wish I could send you some Care2 stars AT LEAST twice weekly! Thank you Sigrid for bringing this to our attention. Sadly noted.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 7:28 am
The most horrivle thing is the children... it is beyond me that grown men the world over will not LAY DOWN their weapons on both sides at the first sight of an injured child...

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 7:43 am
Thank you Pamylle for adding more insight to this.

Elm Morrison (357)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 8:04 am
Yes, Pamylle, he is speaking from a 'dominant' extinct, BUT not quite so extinct a culture (see the Talibans etc.). In the Koran a dog is identified as 'unclean' not to be touched, and if touched, one has to bathe and change one's clothes...... To match them the Talmut chose 'pigs', but at least they don't attempt to eat them either!

The sad state of our world: Cultures that defines any animal as food (both East and West) or unclean and still eat the rest that are 'clean' (Middle East) and the sanctioning of using civilians as shields from whence they can gleefully attack a neigbour and then cry foul when someone shoots back at them, not hitting them in the main, but the civilians behind whom they are hiding.

If I was God (I know I'm not) I would wipe out the entire creation. And maybe, just maybe I'll restart - but this time with a genetic implant to all: That clearly inhibits the abuse of any species to either their own species or any other. And everyone, including the animals would all be vegetarian. We would all die from old age, loved by all.

Just a pipe dream....

Katana Rohn (28)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 8:14 am
Sadly noted.

. (0)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 8:27 am
The author of the piece is mistaken. There has been a massive world-wide outcry about the situation of the Palestinians.

Animals are tortured and abused every second of every day. Once in awhile, because of special circumstances such as Mr. Vick's celebrity, it makes the news. But it doesn't do that because the world considers the fate of dogs more important than that of children.

One has nothing to do with the other.

Luke Sexton (61)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 8:42 am
As we begin a new year I challenge the citizens of earth to make this resolution, "I will take at the very least one meaningful action each week of 2009 to help bring an end to human suffering caused by war" As we bring our individual voices together they become a loud roar that our leaders can not ignore. Only when we learn to live in peace will we be able to restore our humanity

Elm Morrison (357)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 8:44 am
Oh just so everyone knows: I'm not anti-Muslim. My daughter has been dating a Muslim girl for 6 years. When they made plans to marry this December 08, her family basically called down a Jihad on the both of them - the threats flew. So now they are still not married. To force anyone to choose between the man she loves and her family is barbaric. Some South African racist fool had the gall to ask me: But what about their children - what are they going to look like? And who are they going to believe in?

Their kids can be raised in an open faith house, with respect for all beliefs and if they so one day choose a specific religion, belief whatever, they will have the freedom to do so. The killing in this world in the name of one's 'God' or belief system is outrageous.

And just another note - see my post above - about the roots of the Muslim belief of 'dogs' being dirty - hence the author's likenening the death of a child akin to that of a dead dog....

I'm not ignorant - I simply thought that this is not the real issue - as I understand their culture (had to study the Koran to understand my future daughter-in-law's situation).

Either way, anyone who does not respect a dog can stay out of my social, private and intellection circle. I don't need them, don't want them close to me either. My son's girlfriend loves dogs, and cares for the one they have at her parents' home, after one of her brother's brought him there - only to totally ignore him and his needs forever after.

Elm Morrison (357)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 8:48 am
Luke, are you a vegetarian? I note on your profile you say under favourite foods: Whatever is quickest and easiest to do.

If not a vegetarian, here's one step you and all meat eaters can take:
Do not take sentient life to feed yourselves. Respect for life starts small. He/She who can harm an animal, can and probably will harm a human.

Your post is a call to action - well this is an action anyone can take.

Marena Chen (200)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 8:54 am
Eureka, I couldn't have said it better myself. Kudos to you.

milca V (79)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 10:03 am
thanx eureka for your clear comments... so many people are being fooled by the game of hamas... some palestinians who see clear say they are fed up of hamas because they use their youths, houses, abuse and ruin their life to serve hamas cause, which is to destroy israel... they provoke, manipulate with the help of media... israel has the right to defend itself... against stubborn fanatics playing smart and using their own people and children to serve their cause!
people, dont be fooled, know the whole story from the start... i m so sorry for all the people having to endure this endless war fuled by hamas...
as for the value of humans and dogs... equal to me... but evil fanatics who use their own people as shield or weapon cant value a dog's life...

Suzanna van der Voort (271)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 10:25 am
This article comes from a very embittered person and I have pity on him.
Every cruel action, done to children, humans and animals is a disgrace of our 'humanity' and will not be accepted by me as a "thinking' person!
Thanks Eureka for your wise words and your dream of recreation, I will dream with you, and thanks Sigrid for posting this.

Texas Luvver (4)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 11:21 am
Someone should inform Mishal Kanoo it was Hamas who recently revoked a long standing cease fire and within hours was firing rockets into Israel in an attempt to kill as many innocent civilians as possible. Israel is only defending itself as any country would.

Susan E (9)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 11:23 am
All the beings matter, and I whole-heartedly agree that this unhappy person is using this tired, tired antic of trying to down people who care for animals. It's us animal-lovers who have gotten the concept down of peace on earth begins with nurturance of all beings. Bless the beasts and the children, onward ho. And, yes this author defends voiceless animals to the max.

Sir Walk F (124)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 11:35 am
well put sigrid. People care far more for their pets and cute animals than they do for their fellow humans. It disgusts me, actually.

The US should cut off all military funding to Israel immediately.

Sir Walk F (124)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 11:39 am
Eureka-your post is so full of half-truths and outright lies. When israel isnt armed and funded by the US to be a destableizing force in the region for the West, then we can talk about "hamas".

Innocewnt palestinians dying is not "Hamas" and you onyl want to look at that so you dont have to see that Israel has no right to be in ther region in the first place.

Perhaps the UN could force Americans off of stolen Native land using the same Logic for establishing Isreal. Dont compensate any Americans for their land, or even consult with them. Just shove them off and arm the Natives.

People who defend Israel disgust me more than any other human ont he planet. IF you want to discuss this issue with me further, please feel free to PM me.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 11:40 am
Noted! I can say this: in my world there is no line between animals,people, children or for example whales. Each is a living being. I support and equally fight for all. To even put such a question out there is nuts. If you love- then you love all God's creations- and don't put one above the other- you fight for all....

Brenda H (29)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 12:03 pm
COMMENT: People care far more for their pets and cute animals than they do for their fellow humans. It disgusts me, actually. ANIMALS DON'T PUT CHILDREN IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR TO BE KILLED EITHER!

Susan d (61)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 12:07 pm
As someone who, having seen so many atrocities on the Earth, decided there was no such thing as god I continue to be astounded at the amount of hatred that can be generated by belief in something that is meant to be forgiving, kind and merciful. Hypocrisy of the greatest order surely to kill in god's name.

Lia De Ruiter (11)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 12:44 pm
I totally agree with Eureka M. Very well put!
I have a good friend who lived in Ashkelon. They had missiles fired from Gaza since she moved there 5 years ago. Instead of building and equipping hospitals and making something of the country, they invest in wiping Israel off the face of the earth.
Lots of EU money goes into Gaza and the West Bank. I fear the only thing they do with it is buying arms to kill Israelis. Many Palestinian children are treated in Israeli hospitals.
Israel is the only Jewish state in the World. There are many Christian and Muslim states.
The only Jewish holy place is in Jerusalem, underneath the al-Aqsa mosque.

Israel has always been careful to only hit the leaders, but those leaders hide behind civilians... This time sadly Israel has had enough.
I feel for all victims of this conflict, both Israeli and Palestinian. I also feel for the animals who also suffer. To me there is hardly any difference between what I feel for humans and what I feel for animals.

Ray W (10)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 12:57 pm
Wow, this one carried a lot of comments! Can't read them all but I will say this;
Our so called leaders do not care or listen to what we say or think about an event unless it fits into their agenda.

Kenneth L (314)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 1:12 pm
The headline of this 'news' was created to upset, cause trouble, and dissension among anyone who reads it. It's intentionally inflammatory and also irrational. Whoever wrote this 'news' is so bereaved that they can't think rationally or they want to make anyone who loves animals feel bad.
Sorry, it doesn't work on me. Discard it as garbage.

Elm Morrison (357)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 1:23 pm
Why should we wait for Israel to not be funded by the USA before we can talk about Hamas? Why indeed? Hamas broke the ceasefire. And yes, Israel does have a right to be there. Much of the land they have bought fair and square from the Arabs. And if purchase of land does not give property rights then no right in the world exists. Oh, I bought my house, never mind, just come and take it by force...

The Arabs fled the newly found Jewish state because of rumours. They were not forced out at all. So the refugee camps came into being. Then a war of attrition on both sides - where civilians on both sides are dying. The difference here, one of honour is at least this. Israel does not hide its soldiers behind civilians - no Sir.

Historically Israel's 'right's to the land is unquestioniable. However, that said - if one wants to use this as justification then the whole world will be turned into one massive war zone. For how far back are we going to go to justify our being on the piece of land we now call home?

This is a situation that exists. Hamas to you I say - put down your arms and learn to live in peace and with honour. The fine and rich history of the Arabs is being besmirched by your hideous crimes - that of hiding behind civilians. Come out into the open and fight like men, if you must fight - the blood of the Palestinian children flows over your hands, not Jewish hands.

How can the Jews give up their arms, knowing the Hamas is being funded by the likes of Iran, and with the Holy Jihad command in the Manifesto of the Hamas? Will you step out and leave your backdoor open, knowing some murderous soul is waiting to take you down, in fact have sworn to take you down?

The statement that Israel has no right to be here - is exactly the kind of reasoning that will fuel this war forever. For those who truly want peace, who believe in peace - put your money and your mouth where you say your soul is - that of wanting peace.

More war mongering ravings here - especially at Care2 which is a community for goodwill on earth towards all beings, human and non-human is completely out of place. It is hate speech, incites violence and forces an artificial 'difference' between human beings.

No war is justified - self defense is justified. The Arabs attacked first, so very long ago. The British sat back and did not lift a finger to protect the fledgling Jewish state (the twice sold Jewish state). The minute Israel declared herself a country - the Arab nations attacked, with the intent of wiping Israel off the face of the earth. They did not succeed, they will never succeed.

Blind rhetoric and a distortion of historical facts can never change reality. Israel is here to stay. The Palestinian refugees can live a life of comfort, without war. But it suits the Arab world to keep them in refugee camps, that is why it is mainly the WEST that is assisting in these camps - not Arab money. The Arabs spend their funds on munitions instead - while the refugee camps exist they have a reason to take pot shots at Israel.

And who suffers? Everyone caught in the cross fire. It is a madness that will never stop unless the Arab community accepts that Israel is here to stay. From the moment this happens, everything else can be discussed, without a gun being pointed at anyone.

So, I say to those who would keep on stirring the hate. You will be the cause of a nuclear holocast the likes this world has not yet seen. When the earth is a desolate waste of nuclear radiation, then the question of this land is mine - I was here first will cease to have any meaning whatsoever. Then Sir, you will only be to glad for anyone to offer shelter - even if it is a being from another planet.

Then again, I can't see any being from another planet wanting anything to do with us war mongering earthlings.

Peace to everyone here - including Sir.

. (0)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 1:30 pm
Beautifully said, Eureka.

Elm Morrison (357)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 1:33 pm
The headline may have been written to inflame, but if one actualy takes the time to go and read it - it is published by an Arab newspaper - for the Arabs.

If we do not answer it, we lose an opportunity to help people understand. Debating does not have to be vicious - it can be sharp, but not vicious.

Take the time to actually read the article - see the errors, and then answer with facts. It may make no difference to the author of the article (my reply on the site - a duplicate of my first post here, was not approved for publishing by the Arab newspaper). But there are a great many people who no nothing about the original land purchase by the returned Jewish settlers. It is very often incorrectly assumed that the Jews simply came and stole the land - before, during and after the second world war. And it is this propoganda that so inflames the issue.

The heinous 'Balfour Declaration' indeed crippled Israel and the Arabs - how could it not?

Oh woe to us all. May God forgive us our lies, our duplicity, our killing sprees, all in the name of a piece of earth, or in the name of a 'God', or some other kind of theology. The desert sands run red with the blood of slogans......

Kate S (114)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 1:43 pm
Given that this man wrote from UAE and only in March of this year was an animal welfare law passed there (that included the basic necessity of giving water to pets...yes, water!), I would question whether this gentleman has any respect for animal life at all.,000_fine_for_animal_cruelty/31375.htm

As for those of us who were up in arms about Michael Vick...I am like Eureka. I work on issues that benefit both animals and humans, not choosing one over the other, and educate myself enough to know that there are wrongdoings on both sides of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict.

I also agree with her in one other respect. I am tired of certain Arabs screaming about the treatment of the Palestinians when their own countries didn't want the Palestinians or treat them like dirt in the refugee camps. If this writer is so inflamed by the death of Palestinian children (when, to be fair, he should be angry about the deaths of ALL innocent civilians), then perhaps his time would be better spent in charitable or political work or reporting facts instead of what he seems to be doing....simply carping via computer.

Kate S (114)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 2:37 pm
We need more people who can discuss the situation like this....

Pam F (221)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 2:38 pm
EUREKA,Lindsey,Kate,and all the other WELCOME voices of reason in this thread - there's really nothing I can add to your very reasoned and intelligent comments - except it's way past time some balance was brought to the table in this terrible situation. One-sided and biased reporting,and wild-eyed frothing at the mouth "anti-everything Israel,Palestine can do no wrong,how dare anyone care about an animal when people are dying" comments,only serve to polarise opinion,and do nothing to help.
And yes,Eureka,I am aware of the Balfour Declaration - and being older than the state of Israel,seen newsreels and read about them in the papers from the time of coming into existence,as a child discussed with my parents the hostility and overwhelming odds against them right from the beginning,and been aware of the gauntlet they have been running for the whole of their existence! I've said before - I too have no religious barrow to push,my childhood was in England,of white anglo-saxon parentage,C-of-E sunday school as a child,and now definitely NO religion.

Rhonda Nolasco (37)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 3:45 pm
It's very sad that violence is a way of life all over the world. We are immune to it. We hear of it so often that it doesn't affect us the way it should. Animals don't have a choice to how they are treated. We don't want animals to suffer cruelty and abuse. Humans should be treated the same way. There is no easy solution or answer to survival. It would be nice if all creatures were treated with respect and equally but won't happen in this lifetime sadly noted. We are trying to make a difference.

Elm Morrison (357)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 3:55 pm
Kate, I've now browsed around and read all the other news items submitted on this Palestinian conflict. On all the other sites there is a complete lack of sanity, but for a very few comments. Everyone trying to say something smarter than the previous post - often ripping into each other in quite an impolite manner.

Anyone here ever read any of Taylor Caldwell's books? In book after book she posits the theory about munition makers having to create wars and keep the current ones going so that they don't go out of business. On the other threads it was correctly asked, who is benefitting from all this madness? The only possible answer of course: Munitions makers, sellers of death.

And someone said this was the worst thing ever to happen since the Holocaust. I beg to differ. Once again I point you at Rwanda - the biggest shame of all.

Any child's life is sacred, for that matter any life is sacred. The wars of aggression - both of offense and defense always result in death, no matter the cause being espoused.

The game on these other sites is to blame as many people as possible, politician, the UN etc. The blame lies within ourselves. Our scant respect for life and liberty. And provactive statements on these other news sites - simply meant to stir more vicious rhetoric is unbecoming to any member of Care2. Emotions are running high and vile speeches and more hate mongering will not solve this.

As I see it, Hamas has abused their own people to the 'nth degree. They are a cancer within the midst of an already moribund patient. Iran is defintely fuelling these fires. The Israelis have had enough, the Palestinians just have to shout enough too: AND GET RID OF HAMAS extremists in their midst. This is all - and peace will return. Now the Israelis are so fed up they are intent on once and for all wiping out the Hamas extremists. The cost is heavy - the price that civilians are paying now is too horrific to contemplate.

I have no answer, only a hope that the Palestinians will get rid of these terrorits in their midst - to fight for their own peace, their own existence. You cannot shelter those intent upon death and destruction and expect to walk away unscathed.

If I had to put this into an animal perspective: Imagine if you were the caretaker of an animal shelter and a bunch of hooligans shot at your charges, continuously from across the fence. These hooligans are protected by the skirts of their mothers, who coo-coo over their darlings. You know what I would do? I would go out and flatten every last sod of them, even if I have to walk over the bodies of those protecting them.

This is an extreme example, but for me it does clarify things a bit. The right to a life where no-one has the right to harm me or my charges is the highest right of creation. I dare anyone to hurt an animal in my presence - they will pay an awful price, and I have put this into practise, believe me. So when a nation takes it and takes it when the hooligans have promised to not harm, but continuously break a ceasefire what does it behove that nation to do? Now they are doing it, taking the rot out.

Anyone heard of quantum theory and the flying yogis? When they were stationed in Washington DC for a period of a few weeks, crime dropped by 75%! I seriously think they should station a batch of them in the Middle East. Google 'Dr Carl Hagelin' and see what I'm talking about.

I've attended several of their TM workshops. At their univesity it is mandatory (over and above their normal studies) for all students to study TM - now here is a man who is pioneering a new way of life. Inner calm radiates outwards, and as per proven Quantum Mechanics theory - it dominoes - the effect spills over. And this is not hocus-pocus. These are controlled and monitored studies - proven by science.

There should be a world wide request for these flying yogis to get themselves to the Middle East - and fast. Maybe they are already on their way - who knows?

Bryan S (105)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 4:51 pm
Yes, Israel just wants to be left alone and not take anyone's land. If that's so you'd have to wonder why they keep building illegal settlements in the West Bank and the owners are forced off with violence. Israel has been encroaching on Palestinian land for decades now. Was this land that they purchased in the past but then forgot about for awhile? And what about all the Zionist who claim the land is theirs becausr of a Biblical right. Did they forget the land was actually purchased? And I suppose that the more than year long Israeli blockade of Gaza which has deprived people of food, medicine, and fuel has nothing to do with this sitution. This blockade which targets civilians along with the current strikes on civilians both violate the Geneva convention. Hamas is an extremist organization (which often is the result of a long military occupation) which cannot be completely trusted, but how many Israelis have been killed in the last year by Hamas as opposed to how many Palestinian civilians have been killed even before this latest violence?

milca V (79)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 5:17 pm
thanx you eureka for your strong light and integrity! would there be a gandhi coming out of the lot and radiate a will for peace strong enough to inspire the palestinian people to get rid of the rotten apple in their basket!
israel has kindergarten where they have both israeli and palestinian kids for them to grow up together and teach them to live together...
the arab world in the meantime broadcasts family shows where they the hate of jews is clearly the subject - ie. kids quizz (question asked directly to kids in the show): why the jews need to be killed? ... (i ve seen that show from my own eyes!)

milca V (79)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 5:29 pm
the majority of israelis and palestinians want to live in peace... but there will always be extremists, and their voice should be shut down by the majority! but in time of war and catastrophy, the majority of people will follow the leader, whatever it is... see in the states after the attack of the twin towers... bush has been reelected... if only people could think for themselves and controle their own minds...

. (0)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 5:36 pm
Everything I read here is all comes down to this. Palestina has always been fighting for years and Isreal. They will continue no matter what happens. For me I feel for the people who are innocent in all of this. Childer loosing there parents, homes, and yes I care about there animals too just like more than likly do too. Human's are discussing in so many ways and you Eureak are a fine lady and I love it when a woman knows what she's talking about and you do. And for people to say someone puts out lie's is very bold indeed when them selves do a good job at it themselves. Thanks for infor Eureak and Sidrig. and Pearl for the foward

Aletta Kraan (146)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 6:33 pm
Noted , very sad situation !!!

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 7:03 pm
Does the title shock you? Good! Because it should. It is a sad statement on the lives of the poor Palestinians in Gaza whose lives have been shattered since 1948. This huge prison that is Gaza, had been so-called liberated in 2005. Yet would you like to live there?

The state that the people there live in has been described as the biggest open spaced prison with good reason. They are not allowed freedom of movement to and from the territory.

They have no proper access to continued electricity or running water. And they are run by different militias all who are trying to prove a point that is useless — they all want to be the top dog in the junkyard.

In 2007, an NFL star, Michael Vick of the Atlanta Falcons, was highlighted on every paper in the US for actively participating in a dog fighting ring. The outcry was not because the star betted on the dogs, but about the sport itself.

In the sport, the animals tear into each other and eventually kill one another. This was a situation that the US public could not tolerate. Yet when bombs blow to smithereens the bodies of children living in Gaza, no one is taken to task about his role in this carnage. So is that dog’s life worth more than the Palestinian child’s?

The Israelis are the masters of deception by their own admittance — “By way of deception we do war.” They always seem to find a way to blame the victim for their barbarity. They know fully well that they are transgressors but because the truth hurts, they find ways of placing the blame on others.

In this latest act of savagery, the Israeli government headed by the now disgraced caretaker Prime Minister Olmert said that it is Hamas’ fault and that they have no issues with the people of Gaza. Please let me state quite clearly that I am not excusing Hamas’ acts of the past 3 years nor do I side with the regime of Mr Abbas.

However, if you put people in an open air prison, take away all the amenities of life such as electricity, water and medicine then kidnap and, in some cases kill, legally elected officials from the Palestinian state under whatever guise best fits the moment, what do you expect the people to do? Sit back and take it?

The Israelis don’t so why should the Palestinians? The Government of Israel has made it quite clear that they will continue with the carnage until they are satisfied. So more of the same.

A while ago, I saw a wonderful interview with Mr. Norm Finkelstein, a person worth reading more about and is famous for his book, “The Holocaust Industry”, where he said that Israel took a beating in the 2006 invasion of Lebanon when Hizbullah politically trounced it.

Now Israel cannot be seen as the weak party because that would empower others to strike it…oh so the argument went. However as Israel is still licking its wounds from Lebanon, it needs to make a point that it is the dominant factor. What better way than killing the defenseless?

When dogs get abused, the civilized world comes to a standstill and the criminal is severely punished. When a child in Gaza is killed, the world talks for a while because no one wants to look as though they are doing nothing but in reality, they are doing nothing.

Indeed, a dog is worth more than a Palestinian child.

I am sadded when I see inocent people killed (anywhere). But,you have to look at the whole picture, and each country has a right to defend itself from attack. In this case, Hammas is sending bombs into Israel killing inocent people there. They do not want any kind of peace, and know that once you attack Israel, they will attack back. Is this right? So, we need to look at what is truly causing it, which is Hammas. If they stopped, Israel would have no reason to attack back. How to solve it? I don't know, but I would look at who is behind it, and get after them. But, in this case, the cowards hide in civilian areas and know that if they are attacked, inocent people will be harmed. Attcak on Gaza
Posted by C U Vaird, Mossel Bay, South Africa on Wednesday 31 December 2008 at 17:17 UAE time

Mishal Kanoo is one of the few people in the UAE who really understand the terrible position of the Palestinians under the Israeli occupation. There is doubt whatsoever that Israel is commiting war crimes and that its leaders should be brought before the Internation War Crimes tribunal in the Hague. New low for humanity
Posted by Omar Qazi Shabir Ahamed Qazi on Wednesday 31 December 2008 at 16:30 UAE time

How can the world leaders sit and watch the terrorism and wrongful killing of humanity, how can they be deaf to the cries of the children of Gaza? Do they not see the cruelty or the evident truth in the Israeli murder of Palestine. This is modern day holocaust and we all are a witness to it !

I did read in an article that Hamas rockets have killed around 17 lives in 6 years , which I strongly feel is also wrong but how can Israel try to equate the killing of over 300 people in 3 days ? Isnt Israel trying to be opportunistic and use the rocket attack as an excuse to exercise its agenda ? Is the shameless Olmert trying to win popularity with blood on his hands?

How can the people of Israel support this ? how can the United States of America , the world saviour , find Israel justified ?

Where are the world leading media covering this as an retaliation and not terrorism ?

This is a new low for humanity. Thought Provoking
Posted by NZ, Dubai, UAe on Wednesday 31 December 2008 at 14:44 UAE time

I wish leaders also though like you Mr. Kanoo. Its a sad sad reality .. that no one can do anything about. People who watch an evil deed silently are no better than people doing it..I expected an extraordinary response from the leaders this time... but alas moneatry union is more critical than humanity! Only a miracle can save them now.

Israel rejects truce call...

An innocent child, an innocent civilan is innocent, regardless of colour,race or anything else!...Why dispute the fact?...Just stop the slaughter!


liz c (827)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 7:06 pm
Mishal Kanoo--you are presuming that civilized people were more upset about Michael Vicks dogs than the death toll of children of war??????First of all--dog fighting is NOT a sport--it is organized by sick, cruel, evil individuals. And yes, many people were horrified that dog fighting is as prevalent as we learned that it is. But civilized people would not compare dog fighting and the death of men women and children. therefore how civilized are you to make the comparison?????

. (0)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 9:02 pm
It is erroneous,to create a false hierarchy of suffering,or a league of pain-the gorilla whose hand is chopped off to make an ashtray,suffers psychologically,physically and socially,the child whose parents atoms are scattered by a suicide bombers explosion,or the Iraqu mother whose youngster is mutilated by a US missile-all suffer horribly.
Our own bias on the world,must not blind us to this fact..

Sir Walk F (124)
Wednesday December 31, 2008, 9:38 pm
Israel has no right to that land.

Until this basic fact is understood, people will continue to see those from the Mid East as lesser than so-called "Jews" and Europeans.

This conflict would not exist if the Western Military base known as "Israel" was not forced upon another people some 50 years ago.

It boggles my mind that this basic fact is overlooked by those who view "palestinians" as lower than "israelis".

milca V (79)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 2:20 am
hamas is seeing palestinians as shield of weapon... please stop your propaganda against israel and tell the whole story... (read eureka's comments)... israel could destroy gaza in a second if they wanted to... you cant accuse israel of attacking when it is only defending itself against hamas hiding behind the palestinian people and children.

Past Member (0)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 4:51 am
Looks like nobody understands yet, why there is this attack just right now.The jews still believe that this land was given to them by their 'god'.

milca V (79)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 6:32 am
john, the attack is in response of rocket attacks from hamas... hamas has broken the cease fire agreement, conditions to lead to negociations... israel is defending itself...

Elm Morrison (357)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 10:29 am
For all those who are bemoaning Israel's closing off of humanitarian aid and normal faciliities to Gaza: Lets look at history.
When the British annexed the land around the newly discovered Gold Fields the 'Boere' farmers went to war, but in a manner unfamiliar to the British. Guerilla Warfare. And they were winning! It was a war the British could never win - the farmers hit and run. Their women remained on the farms. They would slink back in the dead of night, get food etc.

The British became smart and they did a terrible thing: They rounded up all the women and children and put them into concentration camps - read refugee camps. And they practised a policy of 'Scorched Earth'. They burnt the farms to the ground and killed most of the livestock. This was a long time ago. The farmers being left without resources lost the war - and South Africa was British. Israel has its share of wrong doing - I'm not blind, nor am I biased. But it is a nation, a people, constantly under threat - constantly attacked from all sides. It has signed peace treaties with other Middle East countries and those treaties are standing. If not love there is at least peace between these parties.

Much wrong has been done in Gaza, but an even bigger wrong was done to them by their own people. The extremists within the Gaza area will not let go - they are of the same opinion as Sir. Would you feed the 'mouth' - hand that bites you? I would not, as much as I love my fellow being. If I'm not well and taken care of I am in no position to take care of anyone else.

The Israelis are doing what the British did to the South African farmers. What every nation has ever done when faced with a never ending threat in their midsts. They want to force the Palestinians to not protect the extremists. Their only other solution is to bomb Gaza and its Palestinian inhabitants out of existence. This they will obviously not do.

To the haters of Jews - give it up, give it a rest. Share this earth. Stop your war mongering and hate speech in the media - and in your classrooms. You want peace? It is there for the having - you just need to want to have it enough. All other talk is so much air bubbles.

It is either peace or violence - you can't walk a middle ground here, i.e. killing the occasional Jew - and then freak out when the 'dog' turns around and attacks. 'Tease' an animal long enough and you breed a vicious temperament.

If everyone here at Care2 sat down, quietly, and prayed, meditated, centred on peace and tolerance, with a love for our existence, it will make a difference. Walk into any monastery, any convent, any chappel. any mosque, and sense the presence of God, of yourself, of everyone on earth as being a child of God, no matter by what name you call the Supreme Being. Imagine if we all spent five minutes of every hour of our days - radiating love and peace out into the world. Will it make a difference? I believe so.

Every vicious thought and vicious comment here at Care2 travels throughout the universe. Quantum Physics in action - nothing mystical about it. Our thoughts damage those around us.

Thoughts create energy waves - these can be measured scientifically, and seen as 'colours' by those trained/gifted to see it. These colours each have a frequency - measured and corroborated scientifically. The rage flying around the world right now is RED and a dark ugly brown/green. It does not enhance life - it counters life.

Are we our brother's keepers? Yes, I believe so, I believe so with all my heart. No intellectual point scorring argument can obscure this truth.

A most beautiful slogan for peace is this:
"If not me, who? If not now, when?"

We cannot live in hate - hate spawns hate. Love spawns love. Tolerance spawns tolerance. It is our choice to make right here, right now.

Blessings to all on this thread, to all inhabitants of this world. We are not perfect - but we all we have. To love and care, to share our joys and our tears, to share our dreams, our hopes - always knowing that our friends will support us when we falter - without damning us, without classifying us as a species who do not have the right to life - be it human or animal. That is my dream, my hope and my prayer. And here I take a minute of silence, remembering those who have gone before me - the downtrodden, the defenceless, the so-called minorities - all who died because of someone's rage, someone's sense of superiority, someone's belief system.

I have lost many loved ones during my activist years against the apartheid regime of South Africa, thought it was over and done with, only to lose the man I loved to the dark forces of the returned ANC exiles. I clearly saw then that no one can call themselves right. The quest for glory, for being 'right' at all costs is the most destructive force on this earth. It is driven by fear, by an ego that needs constant fear thoughts, to isolate, to draw a fictious line of ME vs THEM. We all do it, daily. Our saving grace would be to catch ourselves doing it. And then to say: 'I'm a fine human being, just as I am. I don't need fear, I don't need hate to sustain my ego. I can be peace and acceptance, I can just BE.

For those who are so angry right now - believe me, the anger will only bring more anger. In the name of GOD, give it a rest. As a famous healer said: PEACE IS THE WAY. It is not the goal - IT IS THE WAY. The goal takes care of itself.

Elm Morrison (357)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 11:08 am
Now here is a story sent to me by Brenda. It involves a dog, a jew and hatred... But look how the dog set an example!

Bianca is a wife, mother, and grandmother who loves animals, nature, and
music. She used to speak before many audiences about her experiences as a
concentration camp survivor. The story she shares below shows an angel
animal who went beyond training to show wisdom.

The Quality of Mercy ~~~~ by Bianca Rothschild

Animals have always been part of my life. I love them with a passion.
But one special "angel animal" will remain in my heart forever.

I am a lady in my mid-seventies who has an amazing story to tell. It's
recorded in my testimony for Steven Spielberg's collection of Holocaust
stories. He's recorded testimonies of survivors and liberators and
righteous gentiles who, at great risk to themselves, helped people in
need during those terrible times. These stories come from all over the
world and bear witness to man's inhumanity to man as well as the
capacity for great courage and honor. Another collection of these
stories can be found at the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C.
which has exhibits, including a boat from Denmark used by Danes to
smuggle people to Sweden from Poland and a cattle wagon like the one
which transported me with fellow prisoners to Germany.

Born in Poland, I was a teenager when World War II began. My family
always had pets. All of us loved them dearly. When the Nazis forced us
to leave our home to be put into prison, we entrusted the animals to
friends for safekeeping.

By 1945 I was separated from my family and imprisoned in the Ravensbruck,
Germany concentration camp. Starving, dressed in only a flimsy uniform,
I had to work in the bitter cold. Every day prisoners at the camp
congregated in early morning and waited outside to be counted. One day
exhaustion and cold overwhelmed me and I fainted. Although my two friends
stood in the long row on either side, they couldn't help me.

When the Nazi soldiers saw me lying on the ground, they took one of
their large German shepherd dogs off of his leash, removed the dog's
muzzle, and commanded him to attack. As the dog ran toward me, the
prisoners looked in horror, fully expecting the animal to rip me apart.

But something miraculous happened in that moment.

When the huge dog reached me, he stopped in his tracks. Then he smelled
me. To everyone's amazement, the dog, instead of attacking me, licked my
face until I revived.

Everyone in the line stood frozen with fear. The soldier who had sent the
dog to kill me looked incredibly puzzled. After a minute, I staggered to
my feet. Shocked that the dog had allowed me to live, the soldier called
the vicious-looking animal back to him.

Those many years ago, an animal befriended me in an insane world of
human hatred. I am alive today because a dog disobeyed the command
to destroy me and instead showed compassion. Was it fate? Was he an
angel? I will never know. But till today I have never forgotten the
dog's act of mercy. For the rest of my life I have done whatever I
could to save all living creatures.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 11:08 am
Does the title shock you? Good! Because it should. It is a sad statement on the lives of the poor Palestinians in Gaza whose lives have been shattered since 1948. This huge prison that is Gaza, had been so-called liberated in 2005. Yet would you like to live there?

. (0)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 11:23 am
No, Yvonne - the title doesn't "shock" me. Because it has no basis in reality.

The writer of this piece seems to feel that no one on this planet should care about anything other than his particular cause. But, of course, caring about one thing doesn't mean we ignore the other terrible things that are going on all around us.


Past Member (0)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 11:51 am
First, I am sick and tired of so-called pro-life people who believe humans are above everything else on this planet!!!

Do you see any animal species fighting wars because they are different? No! (Territorial fights between individuals is not the same thing!)
Do you see animals torturing other animals? No!
Do you see animals raping? No!
Do you see animals destroying the natural balance of the environment? No!
Do you see animals killing their babies on a constant basis? No!

So, if we are so special and superior, why do we do all of the above?

I'm also tired of listening to these 'pro-lifers' claiming that people who care about animals care more for animals than for people! Well, let me tell you something, if there are some of us who sometimes feel that way, it's because of people like you and because of your ignorance!
We believe all life is sacred and just because we are fighting for animal rights it doesn't mean we don't care about human rights!

And if you are so worried about the Palestinians, instead of coming here to 'insult' us, why not get off your buts and do something to fix it?
That's what we 'animal lovers' do! Instead of criticizing, we ACT!

So, if you want to point fingers, point them at yourselves for not doing anything! Coming here to post comments won't solve the problem!

Email politicians, the military, anyone... so you can be heard! That's what we do!

Regarding the title, I can only say it's pathetic!
What, should we all stop fighting for anything else until no child is ever killed again on earth? Then we won't get anything else done on the planet, because unfortunately humans (cruel as only they can be) will always make wars and kill children!
Some people, for instance, say we should be trying to end hunger instead of worrying about animal rights! Okay, then why don't you all sell your cars, computers, TVs and so on and donate the money to NGOs that are feeding hungry populations? It's a legitimate comparison! We can't focus only on one thing, otherwise nothing will ever get done!

We have doctors, teachers, mechanics, artists, etc... and they are all needed!
Therefore, there are people who are fighting for human rights and others for animal rights! What's so hard to understand?

Oh, and for those who think Palestinians are the poor victims (I'm not talking about children!) and that the Israelis are the 'boogie man' and if you really want to get all the facts, go to this site and learn some history while checking the other side of the trenches:

You might be surprised. I also used to believe the Palestinians had every right to defend themselves against the mean Israeli invaders! Then I saw that site and investigated a little more! Things aren't always as black and white as we wished!

I hope the 'insults' (between brackets) from the so called pro-life people against those of us who fight for animal rights ends here once and for all!!!

To us ALL life is sacred!!!

Got it?


Elm Morrison (357)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 12:14 pm
Cid, I rest my case too. With such incredible odds it is a miracle that Israel still stands. It is so terribly sad that the true history of Israel is not known - to most of the population of this world, and certainly not taught to the Arab children. These kids are fed a diet of hate and lies. And the British are very silent on this - they could blast it out to the world, but won't. Not the British way to shame themselves in public.

The other vidoes on the site are also very illuminating. Seig Heil, Seig Heil..... Uuuugggghhh.......

. (0)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 12:36 pm
Cid, non-human animals do all of those things you mentioned. We just don't blame them for it because they, so far as we know, have no choice. They, in general (and so far as we are capable of understanding), lack the intellectual capacity to make choices and merely act as they have evolved to act.

And if any of those species eventually evolve to have the same range of skills and intellectual choices we have, I am reasonably sure they will cause just as many problems on this earth as have been caused by humankind.

Marc Gartmann (142)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 12:44 pm
Thanks Eureka for your well balanced and knowledgable comments. Feels like a summers breeze in a winters storm.

. (0)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 12:49 pm
Very right, Marc. Eureka is an excellent and informative writer.

Judy Cross (83)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 12:55 pm
January 1, 2009
An Israeli War Crimes Tribunal (ICTI)

An Israeli War Crimes Tribunal (ICTI) May be the Only Deterrent to a Global War

The United Nations General Assembly must immediately establish an International Criminal Tribunal for Israel (ICTI) as a "subsidiary organ" under U.N. Charter Article 22. The ICTI would be organized along the lines of the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia (ICTY), which was established by the Security Council.

The purpose of the ICTI would be to investigate and prosecute Israeli war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide against the Peoples of Lebanon and Palestine.

The establishment of ICTI would provide some small degree of justice to the victims of Israeli war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide against the Peoples of Lebanon and Palestine--just as the ICTY has done in the Balkans. Furthermore, the establishment of ICTI by the U.N. General Assembly would serve as a deterrent effect upon Israeli leaders such as Prime Minister Olmert, Foreign Minister Livni, Defense Minister Barak, Chief of Staff Ashkenazi and Israel's other top generals that they will be prosecuted for their further infliction of international crimes upon the Lebanese and the Palestinians.

Without such a deterrent, Israel might be emboldened to attack Syria with the full support of the Likhudnik Bush Jr. Neoconservatives, who have always viewed Syria as "low-hanging fruit" ready to be taken out by means of their joint aggression. If Israel attacks Syria as it did when it invaded Lebanon in 1982, Iran has vowed to come to Syria's defense.

And of course Israel and the Bush Jr administration very much want a pretext to attack Iran. This scenario could readily degenerate into World War III.

For the U.N. General Assembly to establish ICTI could stop the further development of this momentum towards a regional if not global catastrophe.

Elm Morrison (357)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 1:02 pm
Judy Cross, it would be appreciated if you could follow the spirit of this thread, and not continue with further hate comments. Thank you.

Judy Cross (83)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 1:14 pm
It isn't a war crime to kill dogs.

Posting an article by a prominent scholar about the need to stop what is happening in Israel/Palestine can hardly be proclaimed "hate" except by someone wearing blinders.

Bryan S (105)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 3:07 pm
Thanks Judy, There certainly needs to be some outside organization with some authority to participate in this conflict (well, other than the unconditional billions in military aid the US gives Israel each year) It's strange that so many simply want to keep repeating the mantra that Israel must defend itself, and that excuses everything. They never address the fact that Israeli acts of violence against civilians have killed many times more Palestinians than Israelis have been killed throughout the years. This doesn't mean all Palestinian actions are "right" but is it right to always condon Israeli actions as merely defense while the Palestinians are supposed to do nothing in retaliation to violence and the taking of their land. And why does Israel continue to build illegal settlements in the West Bank while removing the rightful owners if they are interested in peace? And the collective punishment of 1.5 million Palestinian civilians by denying access to food, medicine, fuel, and other supplies is not conductive to peace and violates international law. You would think after listening to some that Israel was threatened with extinction, with its huge modern military funded by the US against homade rockets from Hamas which hadn't killed one person for more than a year up until last Sat. when one Israeli was killed.

This is an alternative perspective from an Israeli point of view -

Past Member (0)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 3:10 pm
Lindsey, I'm sorry but I beg to differ!

I know a little about the animal kingdom and no animal does those things.

Look, if you claim something to be true you must back it up with facts - so can you give me examples involving animals for each one of those situations I mentioned, please?

When humans stop being arrogant fools, then maybe we will actually be able to end all wars, all human and animal abuse and stop the destruction of our planet!
Maybe then we will be ready to open our eyes, truly evolve and respect every living creature on earth!!

Until then we are nothing but another species on this planet - the difference between all of the others and us is that we are the most arrogant, destructive and cruellest of them all!!

Oh, and we have nice gadgets... :)

. (0)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 4:25 pm
Cid, since you asked for examples: animals fight "wars" for the same reasons humans do by and large. The need to expand territory, to defend territory, to acquire assets, to acquire mates, and the like. Sometimes it's on a one-on-one basis. Other times, with the communal species, it can be a concerted effort among the group. Ever watched Meerkat Manor on Animal Planet? If you have you will have, over the seasons, seen innumerable instances of wars fought between rival groups over just those things. Direct attacks by the entire group, often in an attempt to gain more territory or access to better feeding grounds. When a group goes out to forage sometimes the new babies must be left alone in a burrow for hours at a time if no adults chose to remain with them. And if another group of kats discovers the baby burrow, they will nearly always enter and kill their rivals' pups. Just as the dominant female in any family group will often kill the pups born to subordinate females because those other pups will decrease the chances of the dominant female's pups getting the entirety of the group's attention (and because having pups can increase a female's status in the group, thereby threatening the dominance of the existing leader.) That kind of behavior happens in many other animals.

Ever seen a cat "playing" with a mouse, killing it inch by inch before finally finishing it off? Behavior designed to help hone the hunting and killing skills of the cat, especially when it's a mother cat trying to teach her kittens how to hunt. That is torture to the mouse. Done for very logical reasons, of course.

And many animals engage in rape, otherwise known as forced sexual behavior (bottlenose dolphins appear to engage in forced sex frequently, among many others.)

Animals certainly don't have the intellectual capacity to destroy the environment to the extent of humans. However, they certainly can over-hunt and over-graze areas to the point that the ecological balance is affected. Because, of course, in times of scarcity (or overpopulation of a species) food supplies may be overwhelmed.

And the killing of infants is certainly happening in the animal kingdom. From Time Magazine: "....naturalists have identified dozens of species that kill their own, including lions, hippos, bears, wolves, hyenas, herring gulls and more than 15 types of primates other than man....the langur society operates more like the House of Borgia, complete with kidnaping, constant sexual harassment, group battles, abandonment of some wounded young by their mothers, and the regular practice of infanticide....",9171,912086,00.html

And that was written back in 1978. Lots more research has been done since that time.

And think of male lions who, after defeating a male rival for control of a pride, routinely kill the cubs of a lioness with whom they wish to mate, thereby bringing her back into season quickly. While the lioness stands by and allows the victor to kill her babies.

But, as I said, we don't blame animals for their behavior because that's just the way nature has programmed them - and, to the best of our understanding, they don't have the ability to move beyond that behavior (although some, such as the cetaceans and a few others, may indeed have that ability.)

Elderberry T (201)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 4:30 pm
Over 30 yrs ago I visited Palestine, it was Apartheid then as now..Apartheid South Africa always supported Israel. But S Africa is a changed country now isn't it...
Wrongly accusing other contributors of hate comments because they don't tally with your cosy club of agreement here and trying to dominate a thread that you aren't even responsible for...tut tut and thank you Judy and Bryan and Sigrid

liz c (827)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 4:40 pm
Am I on an animal activist site??????? I am here to do whatever I can to help ANIMALS. I believed that this was to comment on an ignorant persons comment that dogs lives are worth more than Palestinian children. I do not want to hear the kind of crap that I have now heard about the terrible things that animals do. I will not comment on the politics of this thread--I will leave that to the people that are more knowledgeable about it than I am--but this has gone awry as far as what I thought we were all doing here.

. (0)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 4:44 pm
Sorry if that offends you, Liz. However, when publicly asked to back up statements with facts, I tend to oblige. And, if you read all of the post, you'd see that it wasn't meant as an example of animals being "terrible" - merely examples of natural animal behavior for which they certainly cannot be blamed.

Elm Morrison (357)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 5:44 pm
I know long posts are boring and tedious, so I apologise in advance.
This is my last post on this news thread.

~~~ Malice Aforethought ~~~ is not possible within the non-human realm.
In the non-human animal realm it is pure instinct, i.e. their genetic engineering.
Human animals (we are animals biologically) have one difference, and this is the
only difference between us and the 'lesser' species: that of:
~~~ Cognitive Perception ~~~

Much of the time we do not use this cognitive perception, functioning on emotion only - i.e. we only see the room we are in, with no means of perceiving that there is a passage outside the room, leading to a front door, leading to a street, leading to a town, to a city, to a country to a world. And when we 'reason' like this, war mongrels from all nations and criminals from all nations plead 'temporary insanity' and get off on a technicality, or plea bargain down their sentence. This is quite insane - we actually are excused when we don't use our cognitive perception! Those who do use this cognitive perception in the pursuit of maiming other life forms can be labelled as:-

~~~ Malice Aforethought ~~

These peoples are usually punished to the full extent of the law, or at least should be. I believe that when one refuses to act with decency and respect for all forms of life, whether it be by intent or by not 'applying one's mind' one is guilty of self-destruction. We know the right thing to do, yet we don't do it.

The dictum, 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is now more imperative than at any other time in the history of man. Nations spend billions on methods of mass destruction. The munitions makers are smiling all the way to the banks, leaving corpses in their wake. Our tax money funds this - and as long as we pay our taxes - we are all guilty of murder, and here I count myself in along with the rest of the 'civilised' citizens of this world.

Imagine if all of us simply stopped paying Income Tax - where would the governments of this world find the money to support their murderous policies? The munitions makers would have to find another means of income - they could put all those clever brains to a better use - to help mankind instead of destroying it.

Democracy is not all it is cracked up to be. Democracy is mob rule. The good few can easily be outvoted by the 'bad' masses. The intention of democracy is good, but in practise it simply does not work.

Democracy spawned the now defunct South African apartheid government - and once in control they promptly changed the laws (enlarged parliament to gain a majority, then excluded the 'coloureds' from the vote) and my country sank into the dark ages. The democracy in the USA spawned the likes of Bush, and he just about turned the USA into a fascist state. Democracy gave Germany its Hitler, who promptly turned Germany into a fascist state. I could go on and on. And when democracy appears to be working against the current bully, mob rule on the ground takes over. Political intimidation – look at Africa, look at the now almost defunct Bush regime (if you don’t’ agree, you are labelled a potential terrorist). The next logical step to shut people us is the nefarious practise of detention without trial. Oh yes, I’ve been there, many years ago in South Africa. Bush’s policies did more damage in the Middle East than any current ‘squabbles’ are doing. What is my point here?

Tribalism is the scourge of mankind. Within each nation there are minorities – let’s call them tribes. Soon they are at each other’s throats, for whatever is the going reason (sun spots large today, too many of this or that in our faces etc.). Some tribes suffer terribly - until the next round, and then inflict that same suffering upon their oppressors. When these tribes unite, they are a nation of sorts; then the game is on to win superiority over another nation. End result? Regional warfare, followed pretty soon by global warfare.

All of this for the sake of 'you have no right to life'. The ‘you’ being anyone else but me. What these ‘me’s forget is that pretty soon the game can turn around and they could be the next bunch of ‘you’s’ for slaughter.

This is the tragedy of mankind. Hitler called it: LebensRaum, and the Holocaust resulted, Japan did the same… Now the Arabs are doing the same. Israel has a tiny piece of land that originally belonged to the Turkish Ottoman Empire. After the first world war the double crossing by the European ‘caretakers’ resulted in the creation of several new countries, now all at each other’s throats. For the Arabs to claim the land of Israel has no right to exist is ludicrous. The land this is now Israel never ever belonged to the Arabs. It belonged to a vanquished Turkish empire! The Arabs have oodles of space to live on, yet they want the tiny space that is Israel. They have sworn to hunt the Israelis into the sea, to destroy them – stating they have no business being where they are. They plan genocide, this is an indisputable fact.

To this end they harass the Israelis without end. If they do know the historical facts behind the right of Israel to be where it is, and still attack, it begs the question as to why? The answer: tribalism, the hatred of one species of humanity towards another. The facts have now become so distorted that no one can even remember why it ever started. The wall that Israel built has reduced the Israeli casualties by as much as ninety percent! Israel’s presence in the West Bank and Gaza is not desirable, but the minute they withdraw the attacks escalate.

What can Israel do? Damned to genocide if they don’t and damned as killers of Arabs if they do.

God help us all. We certainly are not helping ourselves. We rot in our own lies – kill in the name of lies, destroy the dignity of mankind, create reservation, refugees, starvation etc. And then we have the gall to preen about it!

To the Arabs:
Help your people and stop the aggression against Israel, call off the Jihad

To the Israelis:
Your anger is understood, but raining more death upon a helpless populace is not the answer. I fought against the South African government, one of many, but still a minority in my country. I could not by myself stop them, and I would have been damned upset if someone rained rocket fire on me – not knowing if I was friend or foe! Blood begets blood!

I will not comment at this news site again. I have no wish for a slanging match, comparing how many deaths of the Palestinians vs. the number of deaths of Israelis etc.

It is all madness, brought about by an insatiable need for slaughter – the facts of the matter obscured by deliberate ignorance.

As that famous journalist said, ‘Good night, and Good luck’.

. (0)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 5:53 pm
Nothing boring or tedious about your posts, Eureka.

Elderberry T (201)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 6:33 pm
"Now the Arabs are doing the same." Really? Where? Iraq? Afghanistan?

Robin and Jerry Mannassse (2)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 10:26 pm
Eureka, Thank you for your voice, your explanations and your clear-headedness. I often find I am almost alone in my efforts to explain background info in the middle east. I live in Israel and have two sons in serving in infantry units in the IDF. The disregard for lives in Palestinian politics is incompprehensible. The Hamas has tunnels from Egypt into Gaza because Egypt doesn't let in supplies like food, oil, gas, medicine, and aid to their Arab brethren. This minute the news is showing a barrage of 6 missiles that landed in Ashkelon. Thank goodness the damage was mostly to property. The grad missiles were manufactured outside Gaza, smuggled into Gaza during the "cease-fire" and launched from houses populated by civilians. when the Israeli air force locates the launching site then the residents receive telephone calles that the site will be bombed. they get flyers. and then a warning missle designed to make noise and frighten people into fleeing the area. THEN HAMAS BRINGS IN MORE PEOPLE!!! TO BE INJURED!!! YES.
They enjoy creating negative news about Israel and willingly sacrifice their children for Iranian compensation and recognition
Israel withdrew from beautiful communities in Gaza three years ago and handed them to the Palestinians on a platter in the disengagement in2005. since then the rockets haven't stopped Israel does not want to occupy the Gaza strip they are independent there but Hamas wants all of Israel look at any map of Palestine it is a map of Israel including Gaza and the West Bank.
How can I forgive them for forcing my children to experience having to fire weapons in the direction of other human beings?

Raven Sky Dawna Raven Sky Zimb (261)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 11:15 pm
what is going on in the Middle east and these nations has always been horrific. The Death of anyone or anything is always tragic when senseless. However, comparing it is not the right route to go, and many animal abusers have not been punished appropriately as he states. When one abuses and kills life, whether animal or human, it is a sick and senseless crime, no matter.

Raven Sky Dawna Raven Sky Zimb (261)
Thursday January 1, 2009, 11:29 pm
eurkea, thanks for your logical, heartfelt and speaking from integrity.

Sue Little (135)
Friday January 2, 2009, 12:26 am
These people have no respect for life especially those of their own people that they, yes, they, use as sacrificial lambs led to the slaughter all for the purpose of achieving a genocidal objective, the elimination of the Jews. In truth, there is no such thing as a "Palenstinian". They are Jordanians, Syrians, Egyptians, etc. caught in a refugee situation as a result of their own evil machinations to overthrow the fragile new State of Israel back in 1948. The truth is that in history past it was the treatment of Jews in Arab lands as "dhimmis", an Eastern not Western creation, that led to a mass exodus of Jews from Arab lands where they had lived for centuries, some 800,000 in fact. They were terrorized, murdered, and driven out. Their properties and assets were confiscated. Those that escaped were lucky to just be alive. In spite of this, all those Muslims who sought overthrow Israel were NOT driven out by the Jews. They were encouraged to stay and those that did were made citizens in Israel. However, the Muslim armies ordered the so-called Palestinains to leave temporarily while they promised to annihilate Jews and the new State. The Palestinians were ordered into refugee camps. Their own fellow Muslims did nothing to help them instead they prevailed upon the United Nations to supply the refuagees needs and that is where they have been ever since. They want them right where they are, as a continual thorn in the side of Israel. They need to accept responsibility for where they put themselves. I am tired of the whole Palestinian Myth and am always appalled at how many people in the West really don't know history or have sought to re-write it. Start caring about your own people and stop your terrorism. And leave the dogs out of it all together. You have no appreciation for life, PERIOD!!!

. (0)
Friday January 2, 2009, 1:46 am
I keep wondering why I hear so little outcry among those opposing the Israelis to Hamas' policy of using the Palestinian people, including their children, as human shields. Hamas is rather like a woman who kills her husband then expects everyone to pity her because she's a widow.

Most people I know do their best to protect their children and loved ones from harm. Hamas and their followers have convinced the Palestinians to deliberately place themselves (and their children, who are too young to consent) in harm's way - merely as mangled and dead grist for their propoganda machine.

Where is the outcry over that?

Past Member (0)
Friday January 2, 2009, 5:17 am
Well Lindsey, all the examples you gave are anthropomorphizations, nothing else! Humans love to do that! Be careful with that!

Let me refute what you stated: one thing is animals fighting for their survival, because that's their natural behaviour, another completely different is humans (who think of themselves as the superior species and the most intelligent one) doing the things I previously mentioned, on purpose with the 'counciousness' that they are hurting another living creature.
When you mention cats 'playing', that's not a game, it's them training and improving their hunting abilities. They don't mean to inflict pain on their prey for fun! However, we do that for example in circuses and bullfighting!

Survival of the fittest, natural selection (Darwin) - does that mean anything to you?
Oh, and Nature is in perfect balance. It's not true that animals hurt the natural balance. But when they do Nature itself solves the problem - for instance, predators are particularly successful in a year and manage to increase in numbers; the following year, because they over-hunted in the previous one, there are less preys and so predators don't have enough food for all of them and thus their number goes down. Nature controls itself! The only disruptive variable is humans!

"Animals certainly don't have the intellectual capacity to destroy the environment to the extent of humans." This statement of yours is precious! The paradox - we are intelligent enough to massively destroy our habitat! That proves me right! Is that a reasonable and sensible thing to do? Obviously not! As it isn't to make wars!

And accordingly to you if animals do the same as we do, and using the pathetic title of this thread, why is it that a child's life is worth more than the life of a dog?

I mean, we behave in the same way... the only difference is that we know we're hurting another creature and we yet we 'consciously' keep doing it!

And I'm also tired of trying to make my this point clear to people who obviously prefer to live with their own truth and keep believing that humans are so special in spite of our destructive and pain-inflicting power!

Aren't we so smart?

That's why conflicts like this one will perpetuate indefinitely in time until we are ready to see the truth and accept that we're just one more species on the planet, that's all!

Maybe then we will accept each other's differences and stop making wars because of fake religions and 'races', and start cooperating with each other to solve the world problems we are facing!


. (0)
Friday January 2, 2009, 6:43 am
Which is exactly what I said in the first post with which you, for some reason, disagreed, Cid. And in the second post. That animals commit the acts but are not responsible for them because they are natural behaviors which are programmed into them.

And I specifically cited the hunting training aspect of the cat's "play" so I'm not quite sure why you're bringing that up yourself as if I hadn't considered that.

. (0)
Friday January 2, 2009, 8:46 am
And thanks, Sue, for the informative post. You're right - some Arabs chose to live in peace and be part of a new and very prosperous nation as Israeli citizens. Others chose differently. And have condemned themselves and their children to a way of life that's destructive for all concerned.


Kit B (276)
Friday January 2, 2009, 9:51 am
Thank you Eureka, for the excellent historical background, at this point in time one would hope it would no longer be necessary. Obviously it is, and just as obviously many choose to not read your posts but rather get their own bias (often poorly informed) printed on the thread. If one must take a stand on one side, then why would it be against the Israelis or Palestinians? There is most certainly one dominate force in all of this that is well financed and serves only one master, if you can't figure out who that is then read all of the articles again, and study some real - unbiased history. Hamas is but one more in the continuing line of terrorist organizations to interfere with attempts by the principals - Israel and Palestine, to live in peace.

The Israeli government called the cells phones of all of the Palestinians and told them to remove themselves from the area that would be attacked.

Many of you have contributed so many clear ideas of the historical background here and the painful yet all to real situation the nation of Israel must face daily. I pleased to know that all reason has not been shaded by biogotry.
If you think that the United States GIVES arms to Israel, then you have more reading to do, if you are among those who believes that Israel has no right to exist, then I feel pity for you. I wonder how it is that Humans can bring in tons of armaments and armed men, but not food or medical care for the Palestinian population? Could be as simple as they do not care, that the Palestinians are only a tool for them? Of course.

Lindsey, your comments about our observations of animal behavior is dead on.

Peace is the ultimate goal here, peace is the desired outcome.

Denise Lytle (503)
Friday January 2, 2009, 11:29 am
War is a crime against all me animals are as worthy as humans. Animals are innocent like children! So we must do all we can to help all beings in need!

Darlene K (356)
Friday January 2, 2009, 9:32 pm
Bless the people of Israel, but my heart aches for the innocent Palestinians that have been killed in the hundreds. I too feel no difference in an animal or a human being. If I was driving, and a child or an animal ran out in front of my car, I would steer into a tree or whatever, before I would hit either one. That is me. The Israel government become just like the terrorists, extremists, or hamas when it engages in the same war type tactics, especially killing so many civilians. I have to wonder if this war would have continued all these years, if the U.S. weren't the big protectors of Israel.

. (0)
Friday January 2, 2009, 9:59 pm
Sorry, but I just can't keep silent about this. I've seen a really astonishing number of statements all around the CARE2 forum, as well as on this thread, from people who feel that the life of an animal is equal to the life of a human (even a human child.) "Animals are as worthy as humans." "I too feel no difference in an animal or a human being." Other threads have contained statements about how the speaker would allow her own child to die if the only food source available was an animal who would have to be killed to feed the child. And the like.

If there is "no difference" in an animal and a human and if animals are as "worthy" as humans - then their lives are, by extension, just as important to the speaker as any human life.

I adore and respect all animals and I don't particularly like people in general (though I respect their rights and their existence whether I like them personally or not). But I cannot conceive of believing that an animal's life is equivalent to that of a human.

If I'm in that car I too might run myself into a tree if an animal or a child ran in front of the car. But if I had a choice of running into the animal or the child, I wouldn't hesitate. The child's welfare comes first. And frankly, I think that Dar D would choose to hit the animal instead of the child as well, despite her stated belief that there is "no difference" between them. Which is why I wonder why she said that - why so many people say it?

While I think the author of this piece was being ridiculous when comparing two circumstances which are unrelated, it seems that many actually do believe (or at least claim to believe) that a human's life is worth no more than a dog's. And this particular atheistic misanthrope finds that appalling.

Kathleen R (983)
Friday January 2, 2009, 10:20 pm
Look I love & appreciate animals and most all life, however, in no way does just any life equal that of a human child!!!

sue M (184)
Friday January 2, 2009, 10:53 pm
Right on Lindsy, very well put.

What I am having trouble with on here is that you ALL know that the news is sensationalism. You can not believe everything you hear. Further you will NEVER hear the full story. Never hear what goes on behind closed doors or what really happens past, present and future.

There are reasons why people fight with each other. If all it was, the one item regarding the land it would have a solution. But it can't be because someone on the outside is instigating this war. Someone who is instigating BOTH sides. Is Iran in communication with Israel? I don't think so! So who is it, that is in constant communication with Israel and Palastinians?

It wouldn't be the US would it?

Lyta V (36)
Friday January 2, 2009, 11:42 pm
Dead on Lindsey. As per usual. Thank you Eureka for a fair and accurate history without hyperbole or inflammatory language. All the Arab nations are culpable of the Palestinian situation as proved in history accurately. It is not in their best interests (their belief) to allow Israel to exist. Hamas is just the latest terrorists to be funded by outside interests to inflame the world and hopefully against Israel. You want to stop it, stop supporting the side using innocents as shields and bragging about it. Otherwise you simply show yourself as either being ignorant purposely or anti Semites.

Kathleen R (983)
Saturday January 3, 2009, 12:03 am
If one bothers to research ancient to current history many credible sources are readily available. Then also read "Lies My teacher Told Me" to make sure you hold no misconceptions. I for one am not ignorant nor anti-Semitic. I do feel there is enough land on earth for both countries to have their own region and without constantly fighting. it shames me that my own nations helps just one of those countries the most instead of only helping if truly necassary and because "we" don't provide equal, compassionate, and, decent assistance. Military action all too often simply causes even more military actions....and extensive devestations!!!

Kit B (276)
Saturday January 3, 2009, 6:53 am
Sorry Sue, but Iran is very VERY much in communication with Hamas, and took time for a photo-shot while Ahmadinajhad gave the head of Hamas a check for 50 million. That would buy one heck of a lot of food and medical care, but I wonder where that money should GO, but will actually be spent.

This particular article serves only one purpose - to incite and agitate. It seems to have done that. The world knows how VERY EASY it is to pull a string a illicit guilt from Americans. Arab peoples don't care much for dogs, so making the comparison between the life of a child and a dog is guaranteed to make Americans and like minded people - react. Actually a clever journalistic tool, and pulling the string worked just as it was meant to, puppets on a string. Not too many of you had to courage to read this and simply think - life of a child versus life of a dog, STUPID QUESTION!

Horrors in the Middle East - not a problem - Israel is 100% to blame, stupid, predicable answers. Try checking your bigotry at the door and read some current history as your knowledge of the even recent past is sadly lacking.

Past Member (0)
Saturday January 3, 2009, 8:42 am
Bianca is a wife, mother, and grandmother who loves animals, nature, and music. She used to speak before many audiences about her experiences as a concentration camp survivor. The story she shares below shows an angel animal who went beyond training to show wisdom.

The Quality of Mercy
by Bianca Rothschild

Animals have always been part of my life. I love them with a passion. But one special "angel animal" will remain in my heart forever.

I am a lady in my mid-seventies who has an amazing story to tell. It's recorded in my testimony for Steven Spielberg's collection of Holocaust stories. He's recorded testimonies of survivors and liberators and righteous gentiles who, at great risk to themselves, helped people in need during those terrible times. These stories come from all over the world and bear witness to man's inhumanity to man as well as the capacity for great courage and honor. Another collection of these stories can be found at the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. which has exhibits, including a boat from Denmark used by Danes to smuggle people to Sweden from Poland and a cattle wagon like the one which transported me with fellow prisoners to Germany.

Born in Poland, I was a teenager when World War II began. My family always had pets. All of us loved them dearly. When the Nazis forced us to leave our home to be put into prison, we entrusted the animals to friends for safekeeping.

By 1945 I was separated from my family and imprisoned in the Ravensbruck, Germany concentration camp. Starving, dressed in only a flimsy uniform, I had to work in the bitter cold. Every day prisoners at the camp congregated in early morning and waited outside to be counted. One day exhaustion and cold overwhelmed me and I fainted. Although my two friends stood in the long row on either side, they couldn't help me.

When the Nazi soldiers saw me lying on the ground, they took one of their large German shepherd dogs off of his leash, removed the dog's muzzle, and commanded him to attack. As the dog ran toward me, the prisoners looked in horror, fully expecting the animal to rip me apart.

But something miraculous happened in that moment.

When the huge dog reached me, he stopped in his tracks. Then he smelled me. To everyone's amazement, the dog, instead of attacking me, licked my face until I revived.

Everyone in the line stood frozen with fear. The soldier who had sent the dog to kill me looked incredibly puzzled. After a minute, I staggered to my feet. Shocked that the dog had allowed me to live, the soldier called the vicious-looking animal back to him.

Those many years ago, an animal befriended me in an insane world of human hatred. I am alive today because a dog disobeyed the command to destroy me and instead showed compassion. Was it fate? Was he an angel? I will never know. But till today I have never forgotten the dog's act of mercy. For the rest of my life I have done whatever I could to save all living creatures.

What's the problem in believing that all life is equally important?
All of you who think we're superior to animals wouldn't mind answering the following would you please?

You are driving and you see a dog and a man lying on the road. You can only save one of them. Which would you save?
Probably all of you would save the man.
Now, if you knew that the man was a pedophile, would you still save the man instead of the dog?
But what if you knew the man was a pedophile and that the dog belonged to a blind child? And also that that child would have been abused by that man if the dog hadn't chased him away in order to save the child? Now would you still save the man?

What I'm trying to say (and either I didn't make myself clear or you don't want to understand) is that we humans are not more special than the rest of the species. Why should we be allowed to kill millions of animals to feed 'ourselves' (not me - vegetarian) and if an animal kills a human, is most likely to be killed afterwards?
Why should we be allowed to use animals to amuse 'us'?
Why should we test on animals so we, and only we, can benefit from it?

This is what upsets me - this arrogance humans have, believing that this planet belongs to us and that everything else is here for us to use! That is a fanatic religious point of view.

The same fanatic religious point of view which is feeding this same war!

Regarding this conflict, I don't blame the Palestinian populations. They are being manipulated to hate their neighbours. But the ones who are profiting from this and don't want it to stop are the 'leaders' of Hamas and the likes of them. They are receiving money and support from several sources around the world and if the conflict ends so will the money and power along with it. That's why no external government will ever stop this. Only the population by opening their eyes and realizing they're being used can!

And all of those who stand by the Palestinians seeing them as victims and the Israelis as the oppressors are actually helping to perpetuate this war.

Kit B (276)
Saturday January 3, 2009, 9:15 am
Cid, my comments were not addressed specifically to anyone, but generally those who are jumping to tune being played by the Hamas pipers.

I don't know if it is really possible to address some of your questions, as most life and death situations do not allow much time for thoughtful consideration, they are a matter of reactive instinct. Whether or not that is instinct born of a survival of the species or one of a societal nature, I am not sure. I do feel quiet sure that the author of this article is aiming at that uniquely American instinct (societal) to react with a collective conscience to perceived underdog. In doing so he and other articles of this ilk have found their target audience. Following some of the convoluted logic posted on many of these articles one would have to assume the authors of those postings would see no country as legitimate. By that strange reasoning, even the settling of the British Isle by Brittany would be an illegal act. War for land and settlement is a fact of history, the winner must then be prepared to defend his turf, another fact. That it may disturb our higher conscientiousness is a more modern phenomenon, and still to be integrated by society as a whole, maybe some day all people will live in peace, till then struggles for home lands will continue.

sue M (184)
Saturday January 3, 2009, 10:32 am
Kit, Yes Iran is in communication with Hamas. BUT are they in communication with Israel? The point was someone would have to be in communication with both. Feeding both sides being allies to both.

Kit B (276)
Saturday January 3, 2009, 10:54 am
The only country attempting to work out things out is France, certainly not Iran, who finances Hamas. Israel has stated their willingness (over and over and OVER AGAIN) to work out a deal - and have all arms shipments to Hamas curtailed to zero. A Peace with Israel and Palestine is a threat to some to of the countries in the area, after all what then is their cause of the moment?

Kathleen R (983)
Saturday January 3, 2009, 1:01 pm
I realize why some folks keep harping about Iran's involvement, yet it irks me that along with Iran few seem to know to include Russia, China, and MANY other countries as well. STUDY, STUDY, STUDY - PLEASE~~~

Elena C (0)
Saturday January 10, 2009, 10:20 am
As a photographer I have researched the images of dead children in Gaza and noticed that all images are of only the children. Where are the totally unscathed grieving parents when their children get injured or killed? Notice that none of these parents have been injured. Read this:
When a country goes to war with another one of the motivations behind engaging in conflict is to protect the lives and lifestyles of children and future generations. It is also a supreme motivation for making peace.

Hamas on the other hand practices infanticide. They use their children as human shields,

"How do you make peace with people who INTENTIONALLY put their children in the line of fire?" Using women and children as human shields is a favored tactic of the Hamas, that puts them BELOW the level of animals. After all most Animals protect their babies. the Palestinians try to kill theirs.

Animals want to be around to raise their children, Hamas women vow to blow themselves up and encourage their Children to do the same. This raises the question, do Hamas Mothers Love their Children?:

Patricia McCaskill (139)
Thursday January 15, 2009, 5:10 pm
Janet, but what a "pipe dream" it is!

Pam F (221)
Friday January 16, 2009, 1:59 am
Some good points rhere,Elena!

Pam F (221)
Friday January 16, 2009, 2:03 am
Whoops - THERE,of course! Duhh!

colleen p (38)
Tuesday June 21, 2011, 4:28 am
animal rights super propaganda? nobody got the message? I'm suprized. At least they are slowly getting what they wanted. These are nutso people who "want to cull the humans" and "leave the peaceful innocent deer alone"

These are the ones who make the title true. I've seen some who'd swerve their car so they don't hit a critter, even if it means plowing into a child.
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