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Native Indian Genocide: Parallels in Palestine


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: Native Americans, genocide, Palestine, Zionism, United States )

Zahra
- 3394 days ago - palestinechronicle.com
only a country that had itself executed genocide on its own native peoples on a massive scale could be such an ardent supporter of the Zionist regime, which is currently engaged in a native Palestinian genocide.



   

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Comments

pam w (139)
Wednesday March 3, 2010, 8:18 am
So much hatred in that article. It exemplifies the commitment to war so deeply embedded in their culture. I hate to break it to the author of this piece, but Jewish roots go back as far in the area as any other people's.
 

Pamylle G (458)
Wednesday March 3, 2010, 9:28 am
I don't see hatred in the article, but valid criticism, and a yearning for Justice to at some point to prevail.

Race or religion actually has little to do with the dynamic. Any excuse to remove such a population from their homes will be used. It is always wrong, whoever is doing it. Period.

Look at the picture provided. The people behind the fence, so many of them women & children, are not combatants. It is easy to see who is being oppressed, and who is doing the oppressing.
 

pam w (139)
Wednesday March 3, 2010, 10:37 am
Well, for starters, the author can't even name Israel without putting quotes around the name. Any photograph can be labeled with any title. And Jewish roots DO go back as far in the area as anyone else's.
 

Dave C (867)
Wednesday March 3, 2010, 10:58 am
pam w.

Wednesday March 3, 2010, 10:37 am

"Well, for starters, the author can't even name Israel without putting quotes around the name. Any photograph can be labeled with any title. And Jewish roots DO go back as far in the area as anyone else's."

Without mentioning The Bible, it would be appreciated if we could have authenticated historical facts from reputable unbiased sources, to back up this claim of "Jewish roots DO go back as far in the area as anyone else's. . ."
 

pete O (242)
Wednesday March 3, 2010, 2:11 pm
Do horrible things and people will hate you, do nice things and they will love you a very simple concept....
 

Elainna Crowell (174)
Thursday March 4, 2010, 2:27 am
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. A very simple concept and it works!
 

Zahra P (274)
Friday March 5, 2010, 1:06 am
Article now on front page. Soon enough more hasbaristas will arrive.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Friday March 5, 2010, 6:56 am
Native Americans have suffered a lot and are still sufferung despite the fact that they are the land owners.They have been neglected,put in reservation camps and in many cases the land on which they live was subject to be sold by USA National Reserve Authorities.
The same are the Palestinians who were driven away from their land,property and home for the sake of Zionist comming from around the world to steal Palestinians land,build settlements on it,extracting their olive trees,demolishing their homes,terrified by Zionists who killed their children,bombed their homes and schools.
 

. (0)
Friday March 5, 2010, 12:31 pm
One must always rememeber we are from one tree but with many branches, and the branches cannot say to the tree I don't need you or your roots... as without the tree and its roots one perishes.. we all need to be taught love and tolerance of others and not hatred... as this is fueling the crisis in the middle east and it is the adults that are to blame
 

Pam Burton (25)
Friday March 5, 2010, 1:30 pm
There are always GROUPS of people who feel they have a right to what someone else calls their home....And those groups-if STRONG-will attempt to take/steal it!And if those groups are not strong-they will find "helpers" to assist them....And sometimes the "helpers" change sides...And AMERICA "plays" one group against another.....depending on which "group" is in power in AMERIKA!
 

Zahra P (274)
Friday March 5, 2010, 1:41 pm
The Native Americans were very accepting and tolerant, and we can see what has become of them. I would ask were the blacks in South Africa or Alabama loving and tolerant? As I personally don't see how one can tolerate military oppression and/or occupation, without at least some kind of uprising after a while. I also want to add that it is easy for us to say, "play nice" and "don't fight" when living in relative comfort and safety but years of colonization and cruelty certainly is no cup of tea and can have a certain affect on a people.
 

Bracha Katz (31)
Friday March 5, 2010, 2:16 pm
and can i give you some examples of anti-isreal countries: iran, irak, and other countries that treat their citizens' so nicely.
 

Zahra P (274)
Friday March 5, 2010, 2:27 pm
If any of those countries were to build a wall around their Jewish populations, imagine the outcry then?
 

Daniel z (5)
Friday March 5, 2010, 3:17 pm
You all talk about "Zionists" and "Jewish" but what about regular Israeli people? that wants to live there life's in peace? who don't agree with any side?
There millions of peoples that not "Zionists" and don't really care that they are "Jewish" and just want to live?
Like me?
I want to go some-ware else will anybody take me? NO

I can tell you as an Israeli / Jewish man, that none of the sides is right.
We are in a point the Israelis and Palestinians hurt one another and everyone of them making excuse why they did it.

Just a remainder, most of the Israeli people NOT religious! and don't care about the religious arguments.
most of us wants a country to live in and grow.
and wants the Palestinian people with Palestinian country.

But do you think that it will stop the war between us?
 

kathryn cook (628)
Friday March 5, 2010, 4:07 pm
ty for the post
 

pam w (139)
Friday March 5, 2010, 4:57 pm
Daniel...what do YOU think is needed there?
 

Matloob ul Hasan (81)
Friday March 5, 2010, 8:32 pm
Noted, thanks.
 

Past Member (0)
Friday March 5, 2010, 9:23 pm
Dave C. and Abdessalam, could you please tell me where Palestine is?
Dave C., you mocked my source "Honest Reporting" in the thread about Apartheid in Israel. The Palestine Chronicle is an objective source? Think Pallywood!
 

pam w (139)
Friday March 5, 2010, 9:27 pm
Yes...I'm interested in knowing just where Palestine is, too!

What is the capitol? Where is the boundary? Who are its elected leaders? What is its national product? Tell us the history of this nation, please.
 

jackie b (2)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 1:37 am
Until EVERY parent/carer/teacher/government teaches all their young that they should NOT touch what doesn't belong to them, people will suffer. What happened, and continues to happen, to the native American people is appalling, unacceptable on every level and should make the US hang its head in shame. The portrayal of this sad episode of history through films always depicts the native Americans as the aggressor whereas we ALL know this wasn't the case.
Please, Daniel, educate us on what needs to be done in Israel. Those of you on the ground are in a unique position to educate the rest of the world.
 

Mary Neal (183)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 4:40 am
I am sorry for how the Native Americans were and some still are being treated. The truth is that people are treated bad for being "different." Anyone who does not look like a prejudice person is treated as sub-human. My brother was different in two ways: he was black AND mentally ill. Therefore, he was SECRETLY arrested and MURDERED in jail, and the Cochran Firm, USDOJ, and Shelby County Jail conspired to help hide the body.

Here is a tweet that I was just prevented from posting, so I am posting it everywhere and sending it via mail to get more people to join in the class action suit for freedom of speech and freedom of press denials.

If AfAm sick ppl don't have the rights of pit bulls around here, don't hide it. Just come right out and say so. I am. http://bit.ly/9K459N
 

Nola g (5)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 6:46 am
thank you for the article
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 7:34 am
I am saddened to be part of a world where there is so much hate and greed...Why cannot people accept differences and live and let live!
 

Shari G (27)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 12:30 pm
The article ends with the idea that indigenous people will reclaim their land and rights and that non-indigenous people will be held accountable. I think this is too good to be true. As the population of the earth increases, commodities (including land) will be coveted more and more. The baddest will prevail if the future is anything like the past. I think I'm getting depressed here so moving to the next post. Thanks for the info though Zahra.
 

pam w (139)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 12:43 pm
What would happen in this country (U.S.) if "indigenous people ...reclaim "their" land and rights and non-indigenous people will be held accountable?"

Am I to be held accountable for something done centuries ago? How far back do we go to find the people responsible? England? France? Spain?

This argument of "indigenous" people "reclaiming their land" is very tiresome. Example...Mexicans have announced that the U.S. "stole" what is now California from them and they should be able to migrate here at will. EXCEPT that Spain "stole" the land from the Chumash people...so, to whom shall we give it? And who is going to be held "accountable?" The Spanish government who SOLD it to the United States, in the case of Florida? How about the French who SOLD huge areas of native land to Jefferson....should we go after the French?

Colonialism was awful--look what it did to Africa. But it can't be undone through handouts or holding innocent people accountable.

 

Zahra P (274)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 1:20 pm
Indigenous people deserve rights and respect like everyone else. What I can't figure out is why does this upset so many people!
 

pam w (139)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 1:31 pm
Sorry--are you directing that comment to what I wrote? I respect native peoples a great deal. That has nothing to do with the suggestion that we relocate/find accountable, etc.
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 6:41 pm
Pam if you want to know about some of the history of the Palestinian people and their thought processes - I suggest you read Leon Uris's book - THE HAJ - although a story it contains much that is factual and you will see - as I did - that no matter how much you try to accomodate the Palestinians - it will never work until they get Jerusalem back and that scrappy bit of dirt given to the Israelis. These people just can't live peaceably.
 

pam w (139)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 7:02 pm
Good suggestion, p & e! I'll check it out. Thanks.
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 7:03 pm
Patricia, just read the Hamas Charta and you will see what the goal is of the Palestinians living in Gaza.
The great Golda Meir said: "We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us."
 

Zahra P (274)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 7:03 pm
If you want to to know about the thought processes of Palestinians I suggest you read books by the Palestinians themselves and not ones from self-serving Zionists.
 

pam w (139)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 7:05 pm
Any suggestions?
 

Zahra P (274)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 7:05 pm
The racist Golda Meir said there is no such thing as the Palestinian people. I cannot respect the views of such a finger pointing denialist.
 

Zahra P (274)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 7:08 pm
The Question of Palestine by Edward Said or One Country by Ali Abunimah
 

pam w (139)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 7:14 pm
Thanks
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 7:52 pm
Zahra, can you support your claim that Golda Meir was a racist, possibly with links that support your claim.
Unfortunately, Gaza residents (not the Palestinian people) are suffering at the hands of their own people. Hamas Political Violence in Gaza
April 20, 2009

This 26-page report documents a pattern since late December 2008 of arbitrary arrests and detentions, torture, maimings by shooting, and extrajudicial executions by alleged members of Hamas security forces. The report is based on interviews with victims and witnesses in Gaza and case reports by Palestinian human rights groups.
Related Materials Legacy Links:
Read Press Release
Read the Report
ISBN: 1-56432-463-X
Get the Report

* Download report (PDF, 963.64 KB)
* Download report with cover (PDF, 1.07 MB)
* Purchase a printed copy of this report

Table of Contents

* Under Cover of War
* Summary
* Methodology
* Unlawful Violence against Political Rivals in Gaza

The world community has donated millions of dollars to support the Gaza residents, most of the money was pocketed by corrupt leaders. Arafat died a millionaire. Their Arab brothers don't want them. Their hatred for Israel is so great that they use their own children as suicide bombers. I could go on and on to show you the suffering of the Gazans that irrespective of their conflict with Israel.
And I can be supportive of the Gaza residents who are victimized by their own leaders and the concomitant conflict with Israel.

 

pam w (139)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 10:00 pm
For me, it comes down to this--Israel seems willing to live side-by-side with other peoples and has granted anyone living within the borders civil rights, etc. The Arabs do not. The only solution to the problems I have ever seen proposed by those who hate Israelis is total annihilation of the country. THAT is clearly unworkable and ludicrous.

It seems then, that the Israelis are the only ones who actively WANT or would ACCEPT peace.

But, there is such a culture of hostility, war, hatred, racism, etc....generations have been born and raised in it. It will take passionate commitment on BOTH sides to bring that to an end.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 4:24 am
YOU MUST BE KIDDING PAM
THERE ARE MANY UN RESOLUTIONS ON THIS SUBJECT THAT MUST BE HONORED UNLESS WE ARE LIVING IN A JUNGLE . THERE ARE MANY PEACE INITIATIVES BUT ISRAEL DOESN'T WANT TO LISTEN FOR ONE REASONE AND THAT IS IT WANTS TO EXPAND TO THE EDGE OF THE EARTH. ISRAEL REFUSES UN RESOLUTIONS AND THE TWO STATE RESOLUTION. I WANT TO ASK YOU A QUESTION : WHAT DO YOU THINK OF O ONE DEMOCRATIC STATE SOLUTION WHERE BOTH ZIONISTS AND PALESTINIANS HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS ?
 

pam w (139)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 7:33 am
I think there is such a culture of hostility, war, hatred, racism, etc on both sides that it will take passionate commitment to bring it to an end....THAT is what I think.

Look at your response--typed in all caps--the equivalent of screaming at me. "Israel doesn't want to listen...it wants to expand to the edge of the earth," blah, blah, blah.

There is no sense of compromise in your remarks--your mind is made up to HATE.

 

Past Member (0)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 9:04 am
Demonization of Israel: "Zionism is Racism"

An alien observing the United Nations' debates, reading its resolutions, and walking its halls could well conclude that a principal purpose of the world body is to censure a tiny country called Israel.


1949: Israel admitted into the UN

Beginning in the late 1960's, the full weight of the UN was gradually but deliberately turned against the country it had conceived by General Assembly resolution a mere two decades earlier. The campaign to demonize and delegitimize Israel in every UN and international forum was initiated by the Arab states together with the Soviet Union, and supported by what has become known as an "automatic majority" of Third World member states.

The campaign reached new strength in wake of the Arab oil embargo of 1973, when many African states were pressured into severing relations with Israel. In 1975, following a steady drumbeat of anti-Israel declarations pushed through the International Women's Year Conference in Mexico and then the Organization of African Unity, the majority of the General Assembly adopted the "Zionism is Racism" resolution. At the same time, it instituted a series of related measures that together installed an infrastructure of anti-Israel propaganda throughout the UN. Years later, after strenuous efforts by democratic forces, the infamous resolution was repealed.

Legacy of 1975: Anti-Israel Infrastructure Remains

However, the legacy of 1975 remains fully intact: UN committees, annual UN resolutions, an entire UN bureaucratic division, permanent UN exhibits in New York and Geneva headquarters -- all dedicated to a relentless and virulent propaganda war against the Jewish state. Together, they have made the UN into Ground Zero for today's new anti-Semitism, which is the irrational scapegoating of Israel with the true intended target being Jews. Not only do these anti-Israel measures incite hatred against Israelis and Jews everywhere, but they have done not a thing to help the Palestinian situation. On the contrary: they give strength and succor to extremists.




Paradoxically, one of the greatest violators of the UN Charter's equality guarantee has been the UN body charged with establishing and enforcing international human rights, the Human Rights Council. (For more on the bias of this body, formerly known as the Commission on Human Rights, click here.)

Anti-Israel Bias in the UN System

The UN's discrimination against Israel is not a minor infraction, nor a parochial nuisance of interest solely to those concerned with equal rights of the Jewish people and the Jewish state. Instead, the world body's obsession with censuring Israel at every turn directly affects all citizens of the world, for it constitutes (a) a severe violation of the equality principles guaranteed by the UN Charter and underlying the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and (b) a significant obstacle to the UN's ability to carry out its proper mandate.

None of this means Israel should be above the law. Every country, including every democracy, commits human rights violations, and states should be held to account accordingly, both domestically and internationally. Yet Israel does have the right to be treated equally under the law. The UN Charter and the rules of natural justice demand no less. It is legitimate for UN bodies to criticize Israel, but not when they do do so unfairly, selectively, massively, sometimes exclusively, and always obsessively.

Likewise, it is perfectly legitimate to call attention to the rights of the Palestinian people and their often difficult conditions. But it is something else entirely to abuse their cause for the sole objective of scapegoating Israel and the Jewish people.




1975: Israeli Ambassador Chaim Herzog tearing the "Zionism equals Racism" resolution.

General Assembly Ignored Sudan, But Condemned Israel 22 Times

The countless anti-Israel resolutions and related debates consume an astonishing proportion of the UN community's precious resources. This year, during the 61th Session of the General Assembly (2006-2007), the time spent by ambassadors on enacting the 22nd anti-Israel resolution of the year was time not spent on passing a single resolution on Sudan's genocide in Darfur. Diplomats at foreign ministries or UN missions have a limited amount of time to devote to any particular UN session. Because every proposed UN resolution is subjected to intensive review by various levels and branches of government, a direct result of the anti-Israel texts is a crippling of the UN's ability to tackle the world's ills.

UN bias against Israel is overt in bodies such as the General Assembly, which each year passes some nineteen resolutions against Israel and none against most other member states, including the world's most repressive regimes. The World Health Organization, meeting at its annual assembly in Geneva in 2005, passed but one resolution against a specific country: Israel was charged with violating Palestinian rights to health. Similarly, the International Labour Organization, at its annual 2005 conference in Geneva, carried only one major country-specific report on its annual agenda -- a lengthy document charging Israel with violating the rights of Palestinian workers.

In the summer of 2004, the UN's International Court of Justice at The Hague issued an advisory opinion that followed the script of a political campaign orchestrated by the PLO representative at the UN, Nasser al-Kidwa. The busiest corridor of the Palais des Nations, the European headquarters of the UN in Geneva, displays no less than ten larger-than-life panels devoted to the Palestinian cause. The clear message, that the Palestinians are the world's greatest human rights victim; the clear implication, that Israel is the world's greatest human rights abuser.

There are three special UN entities dedicated to the Palestinian cause. The oldest is the Special Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices Affecting the Human Rights of the Palestinian People and Other Arabs of the Occupied Territories, created in 1968. In 1975, the General Assembly added the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People. Supporting its work is the Division for Palestinian Rights. Lodged within the UN Secretariat, the Division boasts a sixteen-member staff and a budget of millions, which it devotes to the constant promotion of anti-Israel propaganda throughout the world.

Although Secretary-General Kofi Annan has made important pronouncements against anti-Semitism, and even -- before a Jerusalem audience -- against some aspects of the UN's anti-Israel bias, his regular statements on the Arab-Israeli conflict are disproportionately critical of Israel. Senior aide Lakhdar Brahimi publicly described Israel as a country whose policy constitutes "the great poison in the region."

Time to Take Action to End Bias and Injustice at the UN

The anti-Israel apparatus within the UN, therefore, is of considerable magnitude, and cripples the functioning of the organization. The overt bias practiced against one state undermines the UN's credibility and integrity. Anyone who truly cares about the UN must take action to end this gross injustice and criminal distraction from world pandemics such as disease and poverty. Given the current period of UN reform, now is the time. Many more UN officials, member states, NGOs, and others need to speak out and actively oppose this longstanding inequality. To begin taking action, click here.

To read UN Watch's report on the UN and anti-Semitism, click here.


 

Past Member (0)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 9:10 am
Re: Genocide of "Palestinian" people:
Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.
Answer: Al-Hayat Al-Jadida newspaper quoted the Bureau of Statistics researcher, Tanra Sabah, who said early November that the overall rate of population growth reached 4.9% with a growth rate of 5.4% in Gaza and 4.5% in the West Bank. These were higher growth rates than in other Arab States.
 

Zahra P (274)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 10:19 am
Even by the definition you provided above, Gaza would definitely apply. And yes they are allowed to have babies though there are those like Professor Rosenberg would prefer to discourage population growth among Palestinians (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/harvard-prof-urges-popula_b_472191.html) And to answer a previous question Iris, I was simply reacting to your implication that Golda Meir was great for her trite and trendy platitude when what would really be great is if she had been willing to delve more deeply into: why might the Palestinians possibly be that angry?

Update: A friend from Jenin just sent me pictures of a new form of social warfare targeting Palestinians similar to Native Americans. It has begun now in Jenin some cinema project that was set up with funds from foreign donors giving free liquor, hashish and scantily clad women in attempt to placate Palestinians from education and dumb them down with beer and promiscuity. I recall similar techniques/alcohol pushing were used by American government with Native Americans, to numb them from European colonization efforts. And we musn't forget the drugs being pushed on the population of Gaza. (http://www.theyoungturks.com/story/2010/1/17/13174/4509/Diary/Drugs-in-Gaza)

Iris, please don't copy and paste text to comments (people have been suspended for that) Links are okay though personal discussion is preferable to a bunch of link posting.
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 4:39 pm
Dear Zahra, unfortunately many people in the heat of their cause don't read links that oppose/refute their positions, hence my copying articles.
But let me see if you will read this link, as I believe the good professor referred to the "youth bulge", not just an issue for Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank:

http://www.hudsonny.org/2009/01/the-youth-bulge-phenomenon.php

In such "youth bulge" countries, young men tend to eliminate each other or get killed in aggressive wars until a balance is reached between their ambitions and the number of acceptable positions available in their society. In Arab nations such as Lebanon (150,000 dead in the civil war between 1975 and 1990) or Algeria (200,000 dead in the Islamists' war against their own people between 1999 and 2006), the slaughter abated only when the fertility rates in these countries fell from seven children per woman to fewer than two. The warring stopped because no more warriors were being born.

Zahra, I like "personal discussions" but I don't like people making statements that they can't support. If it is just opinions, ok, can't dispute opinions. But calling someone a "racist" which is a serious allegation without supporting it is unacceptable to me. Let's not malign those whose positions we don't share.

Zahra ( I love your name), as I already wrote to Cheryl, I too am against the injustice suffered by the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, but let's be fair and oppose ALL injustice and atrocities. After all, they need our support, don't they?

Peace, Shalom, حالة حبّ وسلا
 

Daniel z (5)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 6:57 pm
All of you, please, try to understand something,
I LOVE THE PALESTINIANS AND THE ARAB CULTURE!
BUT!!!
If ill go to a Palestinian village and say "Hi, i love you" it wont make a difference, ill be dead in 5 min..

I think YOU ALL need to stop talking about the past. stop talk about the historical of the Jews or the Arabs. it makes no difference. we are here. the Israelis and the Palestinians. we DO love some things in each other.
like the food, games, and smoke and much more. we ARE living together in many places in Israel. like the city ACO, is 60-75% Arabs. the city Haifa, 45-50% Arabs. and many many more. go visit our universities, see how many Arabs you have there.
WE ARE LIVING TOGETHER!

What we need is that all of the leaders will not be GENERALS or TERRORISTS or something like that.
we need good smart people that know that the historical subject is not helping to no one.
I DON'T CARE IF I WAS HERE FIRST 2000 years ago OR NOT!
I'm HERE now! and i want to live in peace and eat "humus with pita". but it wont happen, you know why?
each side is teaching his kids to hate the other side from age 0! and that is why every president and leader has failed. If you full of hate, how can you make real peace?

I can tell you that the living style in Tel-Aviv is just like any big "metropolis" city, and its hard, we (the simple Israelis that are not "Zionists" or "Jews") just want to live and grow and do great things.
But we have a MAD man from Iran that wants to erase me, Palestinians that wants to cut my throat or bomb me in a bus because "I stole their land" or something.
What can i tell you... I just want to drink my coffee, feed my cats...

But... I'm on the a "HOLY" LAND OF HELL.

 

Zahra P (274)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 7:48 pm
Daniel, alot of Israelis work directly with Palestinians in demonstrations in Bil'in or Jerusalem, have you heard of these efforts? Amira Hass even lives periodically in Gaza, so that argument that you will be "killed in five minutes" is based mostly on fear and conditioning. You are right about putting histories behind us. It certainly doesn't help and the religious issues (esp. the bible says type thinking) is a definite obstacle to peace. A big problem is that Israelis are required to serve in the military, which makes them directly involved with the occupation and the current erasure of Palestinian land but, have you heard of the Shministim ? I think that is a promising trend. But why do they say these types of Jews are antisemites for speaking out for Palestinians. I think it is a shame.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 11:51 pm
Daniel
What do you think of a ONE democratic state where Palestinians and Israelis live together and have equal civil and political rights?
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:39 am
Pam
I am sorry if you misinterpreted the capital letters in my comment. When you press the caps lock key by mistake and discover this when you are about to submit your comment,you most probably are not going to rewrite your comment.You will just click submit. I am not screaming. I am telling the truth. Israel doesn't want to listen to the voice of wisdom because it feels it is strong enough and no body including USA can stop it. It is a fact.In turn the Palestinians under occupation for more than 40 years can't can't accept the occupation for ever specially when we know pretty well that they have been negotiating with Israel for more than 20 years now at least since Oslo agreement. Israel want endless negotiation to show the world that it is willing for peace while the fact is that Israel is using this time to change the demographic facts on earth, stealing more land and building on the Palestinians land. Many peace initiatives have been initiated to put an end to the occupation ,give the Palestinians their rights back and giving a chance to Israel not only to live in peace with the Palestinians ,Syrians and Lebanese but also to be acknowledged by all Arab states : have normal diplomatic and economic relations with them ...etc. Still after more than 5 years Israel ignores this initiative or similar initiatives. As this is the case Palestinians have the right to resist the occupation and free their land.I think this fair.
If this means that " There is no sense of compromise in your remarks--your mind is made up to HATE. " then you may tell me what compromise you are looking for? Rewarding the occupation forces? Accepting the miserable life? accepting the uprooting of their olive trees?separating the people's homes from their farms?
My mind is not up to HATE as you accuse me.It is up to FAIRNESS and JUSTICE.
 

. (0)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 1:09 am
The Abrahamic religions have been causing all problems in human history for 10 thousand years. Here now, at the end, we are experiencing the consequences of their viscious version of ‘civilization’.

It can’t get any simpler or clearer than this. If you are a ’supposed’ member of any ‘truth movement’, at least consider the above.

dsi xl
 

Dave C (867)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 1:25 am
Jaffery T.

What exactly do mean by posting this? : dsi xl

I'd call that spam.
 

Dave C (867)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 1:30 am
and this ignorant comment should be dumped into the nearest rubbish bin with it:

"The Abrahamic religions have been causing all problems in human history for 10 thousand years. Here now, at the end, we are experiencing the consequences of their viscious version of ‘civilization’. "
 

pam w (139)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 7:10 am
The Abrahamic religions HAVE been the cause of problems in human history. Take away religious conflict and what do you have left? Take away religious conflict and what happens in the Middle East? I wouldn't be too quick to dump this comment in the nearest rubbish bin...I'd encourage everyone to think about it.
 

Zahra P (274)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 8:06 am
Jaffery

What do you think of one DEMOCRATIC state where Palestinians and Israelis live together and have equal rights?
 

Daniel z (5)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 10:30 am
OK,

Zahra:
There are always groups of people in Israel that are working hard to show that we can live together and be happy.

Yes I heard about the "sheministim", and I think that they do good. Only the extreme and religious people say that they are antisemitic.

Not everyone are going to the military, and certainly not everyone are going to the "combat" units.
EACH ONE CAN MAKE A CHOICE AND NOT get "INVOLVED".
Its no like in the 60'.
Today you can say that you don't want to go to the army, you can say that you don't think the same or afraid or not the person that will take a gun in his hands or 1000 other reasons and they will let you go.
LIKE I DID 12 years ago.
But try to understand, Israel don't have a choice with the obligation law to recruit from the age 18. Its very simple, we are a very small country, without this law we will not have an army at all, and will be wiped out in 2 sec. Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, you name it, will want to kill us. you can say its fear, i say its reality.

I'm involved with all of this and I'm not in the army. I'm involved by just living here. let me tell you a small story.

One day i had a very good day, i got my first paycheck and i was smiling (i was 14). I said to my self i want to buy to my girlfriend something nice, jumped on a bus and went to the mall. i didn't had much time because she was supposed to go on the next bus and meet me there. I rushed to buy the silver bracelet she wanted. After 15min i called here to ask why she is not here to meed me and she said that she missed the bus and took the next one.
Then i heard a "big bang" coming from the out side. the whole building shacked.
I rushed out said to see what happened..
Its was the first bus suicide bombing. it happened on the next bus that she missed.
I could be me in the, i could easily take that bus and not the one before. she could easily be in time and not miss that buss, she could be dead today if she have got on it.

I DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE ARMY TO GET DIRECTLY INVOLVED, I'M DIRECTLY INVOLVED AS IS.


Abdessalam & Zahra: "What do you think of a ONE democratic state where Palestinians and Israelis live together and have equal civil and political rights?"

ITS A GREAT IDEA.
HOW? you live in dream land.
No religious Palestine or Israeli will agree with that idea.
The Israeli will say... oh ya? and how will be in the government? the HAMAS?!?
The Palestinian will say... oh ya? and how will be in the government? Binyamin Netanyahu?!?
Not to mention Jerusalem.

Dave: I looks to me that you are the spammer if you say that Jaffery's post is spam.
He is 1000000% right. from there it was all started till this day.

Yes i think Israels leadership is brutal
Yes i think the Palestinians leaders and groups of terrorists are brutal.
 

Daniel z (5)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 4:32 pm
Dave: That is all you have to say? I think you understand just fine. you are a very sad man, i feel sorry for you.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Wednesday March 10, 2010, 1:22 am
1 )This thread is about politics not religions . It is a geopolitical issue mixed with criminal acts committed daily by Zionists against Palestinians.

2 ) Those who are pro Israel and occupation and who defend the crimes committed daily against the Palestinians and pretend at the same time they are pro peace CAN NOT answer a simple question : What do you think about a democratic non religious democratic state where both Israelis and Palestinians live together and have equal political and civil rights. Is this question too difficult to answer ?
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Wednesday March 10, 2010, 1:34 am
Few days ago all Arab States and the Palestinians agreed to give peace a chance and start proximity talks with Israel through USA. I commented that day saying " I hope that this process will not be undermined by a trick or unwise move from the Israeli side . UNFORTUNATELY THIS HAPPENED.

PLEAS READ THE STORY. It proves that Israel is neither willing or able to make peace and that Netanyahu is just a chairman for the settlers association. READ

http://news.yahoo.com/s//mcclatchy/20100309/wl_mcclatchy/3447129


Israel rebuffs Biden by announcing new settlement construction
McClatchy Newspapers


JERUSALEM — Hours after the arrival Tuesday of Vice President Joe Biden to help launch indirect Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, Israel announced the construction of 1,600 homes in a settlement block in mostly Arab East Jerusalem, an open rebuff that led Biden to issue a sharply worded condemnation.

"I condemn the decision by the government of Israel to advance planning for new housing units in east Jerusalem ," Biden said in a statement issued by the White House .

"The substance and timing of the announcement, particularly with the launching of proximity talks, is precisely the kind of step that undermines the trust we need right now and runs counter to the constructive discussions that I've had here in Israel ."

The announcement by the Israeli Interior Ministry came during Biden's first day in the region, the highest profile visit by an Obama administration official. It appeared to catch the administration off guard.

President Barack Obama repeatedly had demanded a halt in settlement construction in order to revive the moribund peace negotiations.

Just hours before the announcement, Biden told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that the U.S. was "optimistic" that indirect talks would begin a process by which a final peace deal could be reached.

"I am very pleased that you and the Palestinian leadership have agreed to launch indirect talks. We hope that these talks will lead, and they must lead eventually, to negotiations and direct discussions between the parties," Biden said.

He said his visit was meant to highlight the "unbreakable" bond between Israel and the U.S., especially on issues of security.

"Progress occurs in the Middle East when everyone knows there is simply no space between the United States and Israel . There is no space between the United States and Israel when it comes to Israel's security," he said

The Israeli decision to approve 1,600 new settler homes could torpedo the talks before they have even begun, officials from the Palestinian Authority said.

"This is a dangerous decision and will hinder the negotiations," said Palestinian Authority spokesman Nabil Abu Rudeina. "We consider the decision to build in East Jerusalem to be a judgment that the American efforts have failed before the indirect negotiations have even begun."

Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said the move was destroying trust needed to proceed with the talks.

"With such an announcement, how can you build trust? This is destroying our efforts to work with Mr. Mitchell," Erekat said, referring to U.S. Mideast envoy George Mitchell . "It's a really disastrous situation. I hope that this will be an eye-opener for all in the international community about the need to have the Israeli government stop such futile exercises."

Israeli and Palestinian officials already had expressed doubt about the indirect talks, calling them a step backward after 17 years of direct negotiations between the parties.

Previous efforts at direct negotiations between Israeli and Palestinian leaders have failed, however, because of Israel's refusal to meet a key Palestinian requirement: a freeze on all building in West Bank settlements, built on land earmarked for a future Palestinian state.

Officials in Israel's Interior Ministry added that the announcement meant nothing since the homes were being built in Ramat Shlomo , an East Jerusalem area that Israel doesn't consider part of its pledge last November to halt construction for 10 months in some settlements.

Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai said the timing of the announcement was a coincidence and had nothing to do with Biden's visit.

An Israeli official in Washington , who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because of the issue's sensitivity, said that Netanyahu had been surprised by the announcement by the Interior Ministry , which is run by the religious Shas party.

"The timing ... was not planned by the prime minister," the official said. "We're obviously not looking for any kind of disagreement with the United States ."

A State Department official said that, as far as he knew, the U.S. government had had no forewarning of the announcement and was angered by the decision.

"We're not happy," said the official, who asked not to be named because he wasn't authorized to speak for the record. "The fact that the word 'condemn' was used (in the Biden statement) should say it all." The incident is unlikely to damage long-standing U.S.-Israeli relations, but its effect on the hoped-for peace talks remains to be seen, he said.

Over the weekend, Mitchell said in a statement that Israeli and Palestinian leaders would engage in "proximity" talks, indirect negotiations through U.S. mediators. Biden's visit was meant to bolster support for the talks, which would end a more than yearlong hiatus in negotiations.

Though Palestinians see Jerusalem as a future shared capital, Netanyahu has declared the city to be Israel's "undivided Jewish capital" and he's encouraged Jewish building projects throughout Jerusalem .

Palestinian officials said the settlements would be a top issue on their agenda Wednesday when Biden travels to Ramallah in the West Bank to meet with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas .

A Palestinian Authority official said that Israel's decision to announce the settlement building during Biden's visit was "suspicious" but followed a trend of similar announcements.

"Every time there is a high-profile visit by a U.S. official, Israel announces more settlements," he said. "One cannot help but conclude that Israel is sending a message here. They are telling America, 'Come talk, but we will do things our way. We will continue to build and we will do it in your face.' " The official asked not to be identified because he wasn't authorized to speak to the news media.

(Frenkel is a McClatchy special correspondent. Warren P. Strobel contributed to this article from Washington )
 
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