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Michael Moore: 'Guns Don't Kill People -- Americans Kill People'


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: gun control, Michael Moore, society, politics, USA )

AWAY AWHI
- 1845 days ago - washingtontimes.com
'Bowling for Columbine' filmmaker Michael Moore has responded to requests for comment on the Santa Barbara shootings, arguing Sunday that the majority of America's mass shootings are committed by "angry or disturbed white males."



   

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Comments

Lady Suki (446)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 7:59 am
Well Cal, I gotta admit you have guts. The N.R.A. lovers are going to go bonkers over this post.

Did anyone see the father of one of the college shooting victims that just happened? His child died and he just out and said it was the N.R.A.'s fault. Let's see how well the gun industry treats a grieving father.

Guns are tools. There are, I believe 300 million or was it 270 million guns?, in the United States. That means more or less, if every citizen was so inclined, they could have a gun. In addition to this, according to google (type in what percentage of Americans have a mental illness), slightly more than 26% of Americans suffer from some sort of mental health issue (this includes everything from depression to bipolar, and everything inbetween.)

The math is not good. Roughly 9000-10000, are killed by someone using a gun every year. I"m kinda surprised it's so "low" with these numbers. But compared Canada or Britain's gun deaths to the U.S. You'll notice, we have a lot more of that.
 

Lady Suki (446)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 8:00 am
So while the vast majority of gun owners "play by the rules," I would support universal background checks. We don't need criminals or someone who isn't in control of themselves getting one.
 

Arielle S (313)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 8:05 am
Yes, the onus is on us - because obviously we are not mature enough to understand guns and use them properly. The sick, the immature, the stupid think of guns as a way of grabbing their power and we dumb Americans allow it. You wouldn't let a three year old drive a mac truck and some people should not be allowed near guns... it has nothing to do with Second Amendments and everything to do with common sense.
 

SuSanne P (193)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 8:22 am
ThankX Cal. I awoke to this tragedy yesterday and HOPE IT DOES GET THE NRA's panties in a twist. I have so many emotions about this epidemic that I'll just say, what Ashley H said!
 

SuSanne P (193)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 8:23 am
I tried to send you a star Cal...too early!
 

Rhonda B (99)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 8:44 am
Noted! Thank you Cal! I'll send you another star later.
 

Gene Jacobson (288)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 10:37 am
“We are a nation founded in violence, grew our borders through violence, and allow men in power to use violence around the world to further our so-called American (corporate) ‘interests.’ … The gun, not the eagle, is our true national symbol.”

Well, he's right. He's always been right. You can find on the internet a widely varying set of numbers all of which purport to be the number of gun murders per year in this country. 8853 in 2011. 550 in the UK. 89 guns per 100 Americans. And, virtually none, as Michael points out, of those killings are by women. So does having 89 guns per 100 people make us safer somehow? Stop ANY massacres? The only one I know of that was prevented recently anyway was here in MN, in a case many of you have probably read about, a 16 year old planned to kill his parents, sister and then as many kids as he could. He was stopped. Not by a good guy with a gun. But by a woman who noticed something odd and reported it. Fortunately in this instance the police took the report seriously. There is something very wrong in our society, in American culture and the worst part is it can't be fixed until its presence is acknowledged and we are nowhere near that now - we are tyrannized by 4 or 5 million NRA members - the 308 million of us who are not members are sold out by our own politicians due to their fear of this insane lobby. How far down the rabbit hole do we go before we realize that the problem isn't answerable by more guns in the hands of more people? What we have been doing is simply not working, yet we continue to do it, and that is the definition of insanity.
 

Louise D (44)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 11:21 am
Michael Moore is very much going to get the vitriol of the NRA and the non-thinking Gun owners who are just wanting to shoot someone. In the case of Eliot Rodger he was British and had a history of mental illness, yet he got his hands on guns legally. The issue is the way how America has become so desensitized to spree killings that there is an unwillingness that is more based on cowardice than reality to relinquish guns as apparently the 2nd amendment gives American citizens the right to kill their fellow citizens especially with the stand your ground laws, which can make anyone the judge, jury and executioner if they have a gun. The Responsible gun owners believe the Government will take their guns is a lie, it is getting the guns away from the very people who would commit spree killings. Quite a bit of difference from what the NRA says when they use the tired line "Gun's don't kill people" they sort of forget that they have been facilitating with every massacre in the past 40 years by blocking any research into gun crime and hawking more and more deadly weapons to the general public with the social conscious of a scorpion as it is in their nature.
 

Donna G (42)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 1:29 pm
Guns are used to kill. What's the point of having a gun if you are not going to use it? I have no issue with those who use guns for hunting to put food on the table. But, a lot of times guns are used improperly and I would say that mass killings, whether it is 3, 30, or even more, is improper use of a gun.

Some people just should not have guns; just like some people should not be elected to Congress.

 

Kathleen M (208)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 2:15 pm
Very gutsy, Cal! No doubt the NRA will spit bullets, the cowardly Bullies. Unfortunately, their rating system has our legislating bodies spellbound and gagged. Now they're rating judicial nominees, too, at McConnell's express invitation, the bleeping Bleep! Started a petition on the issue, but it never caught fire. Oh well, better luck another time. TY, Cal. May the Force be with you!

 

Wayne W (12)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 3:26 pm
‘The only thing that stops a bad guy With a gun Is a good guy who stops the bad guy from getting a gun"

If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will accidentally shoot their children".

The NRA supported gun background checks until Democrats agreed with them
Republicans supported the ACA model until Democrats agreed with them.
If Democrats came out in support of breathing, Republicans would hold their breaths until they passed out.
 

Birgit W (160)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 3:47 pm
Noted.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 3:57 pm
Kitchen knives, baseball bats, a steel pipe, an automobile....all of these could be considered "tools" to kill someone. Sooo.... do we ban these dangerous weapons that can kill? I believe Americans should be able to defend themselves when threatened by mentally deranged people. I don't have a problem with background checks on those who own firearms. However, a person can go from sane to insane after the background check.

Keep your feet on the ground, America. All of us have the right to protect ourselves. If someone is breaking into my home I will reach for my firearm and load it. No one has the right to terrorize me or my family.....no one. This shouldn't be a political argument. Second Amendment.
 

Kathleen R (138)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 4:40 pm
noted & read
 

Barry AWAY T (937)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 5:46 pm
Noted.

Diane, do you believe that the architects of the Constitution would have intended for people to have the right to bear ANY arms? Would they have agreed it was a good idea for everybody to own assault weapons, high-capacity magazines? How about a nuclear device? I might need to defend myself against a communist insurrection (LOL) or Obama when he uses Obamacare as an excuse to impose martial law?

You can kill somebody with just about anything but a gun is faster and easier and more clinical. It is one thing to shoot someone from several feet away; few people have the stomach to kill close upo and personal except in crimes of passion and you just can’t get the kind of number with ANY other weapon that you can with assault weapons etc.

Don’t we need to draw some lines somewhere and if that is correct, isn’t the discussion about WHAT lines we draw. And shouldn’t we literally exclude organizations like the NRA from that conversation just as we (sane people) would exclude (the other) insane lunatics from owning the guns the NRA clearly wants them to be able to own?

I mean, everybody throws around phrases like “common sense”. I wonder what we think common sense is.



 

Jason R (67)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 6:44 pm
Reagan and Bush destroyed our culture and the way we took care of those in need. They destroyed our economy which was societies glue that gave comfort. One only needs to remember pre 1981 and after. The elites are destroying us, the middle class. Everything we do is systemic of the oppression/kicking to the curb.

The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good job and security before he goes bad. When WE…WE, Diane et all, come together, like every single person that suffered the great depression did (no media control to confuse) We can put an end to headlines like, FRI MAY 23, 2014 AT 10:30 AM PDT
GOP files paperwork to become wholly owned subsidiary of Koch Industries

That's right, Diane. FASCISM in the raw. In our FACES! Hitler in costume.

Disgusting!
 

Julie W (33)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 6:57 pm
Barry: ' I wonder what we think common sense is.' Well, it's certainly not all that common!

Diane, you can only kill one person at a time with a knife, bat etc. This is a pointless comparison that doesn't make much sense. I am a single woman, living alone, but don't feel the need to own a gun. The likelihood of confronting an armed, mentally-deranged person is so small I don't lose any sleep over it.

 

Slava R (1311)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 7:35 pm
Noted. Although to say that the police dept. would go out of business if guns were banned is not to say it would bring an end to violence or knife slashing at schools, but if you were to ask would it contribute to reducing violence even slightly can't be further from the truth, but should they be as accessible as they are?
 

Laura H (950)
Tuesday May 27, 2014, 9:12 pm
Don't feed the troll; they always spew the same crap-no logic. PLUS they do not understand the TRUE meaning of the Second Amendment.
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 28, 2014, 12:52 am
This is the consequence of guns being freely available it will happen time and time again until there is greater control over who gets to own them.I prefer that no one should be able to own a gun give a nut a gun and they won't be satisfied until they have used it to kill someone.
 

. (0)
Wednesday May 28, 2014, 1:15 am
Michael Moore couldn't be more right!
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 28, 2014, 2:32 am
Look at Chicago a city that has strict gun laws. The crime rate is at an all time high. If a person wants to kill people they will find a gun. I would venture to say that banning guns doesn't deter someone who is intent on killing others.

Chicago is the perfect example.

Ten Myths of Gun Control: http://people.duke.edu/~gnsmith/articles/myths.htm
 

Marija Mohoric (25)
Wednesday May 28, 2014, 2:47 am
Rhonda C. agree with you 100%
 

. (0)
Wednesday May 28, 2014, 5:31 am


 

Lady Suki (446)
Wednesday May 28, 2014, 9:55 am
Well Diane, not to be mean here.

But have you looked at the gun laws in surrounding states around Chicago? People can buy it in a border state legally and just drive on over.

Of course criminals are always going to find guns. But why do you make that argument about guns but not with murder? Murderers kill even when it is illegal. You could make the same argument with any crime really.
 

Jamie Clemons (282)
Wednesday May 28, 2014, 11:02 am
What are the root causes of the violence? Why is nothing being said or done about mental health? How do we get help to the ones who need it? Those are the questions we should ask.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Wednesday May 28, 2014, 11:16 am
“We are a people easily manipulated by fear which causes us to arm ourselves,” he wrote in a Facebook post. “We are a nation founded in violence, grew our borders through violence, and allow men in power to use violence around the world to further our so-called American (corporate) ‘interests.’ … The gun, not the eagle, is our true national symbol.” Michael Moore

Thank you Michael for being outspoken and right on the truth. We may be a generous people, kindly to family and our friend, the micro American people overall are nice. However, as a Nation we are not. We allow too much to go on, thinking of the live and let live, or it's someone else's issue, or someone else will fix it, and stay quiet while Rome burns.

From the the tragic and cruel history of what was done to the American Indians right on through to starting the war in Iraq based on lies it all continues. Drones rain down death from the sky where-ever a single man, the US President signs off to do so. Now it is Obama, next election that same power will pass to who knows who and will they be less likely or more likely to continue this policy - who knows. We claim ourselves a Democracy then allow a President the power like a King. With NDAA this can come to your own personal home in USA it is not just "over there" somewhere.

While people scream about their gun rights every other right has been ripped away from them. But I hardly see such a cry as over don't take my gun. It is all about a powerless man wanting to feel a little power by holding a big gun. See I've got this gun that can do this that and the other thing. Back to the Wild West, they have some macho vision in their heads. Mostly that is as far as it goes, out to the shooting range, toss a few beers with the guys, some even dress in army clothes and play that for a few hours. But for others it gets real twisted it goes further and the message being sent out there is twisted and those with a grudge, a screw loose, feeling helpless, this seems to be an answer, even if it is only for a few minutes. Tie in these video games and people become desensitized to killing and seeing people killed.

I posted a story not long ago. One week in the USA and the gun violence. That is only one week of reported.
Mothers Stand Up and Speak Out For Your Children

This is mostly a male got to have their fast cars and shoot em' up thrills with guns. Women MUST take back a Country gone insane. I don't know how else to explain it, the majority of the men have failed this Country, they have allowed this insanity to take hold. They have not protected the women and children and their Elders, so it is going to have to be the women. Yes, old fashioned thinking, but true. Men have most of the control be it in a business world, the Government, the Courts, and Educational Establishments. They have failed it's women, it's children, it's Elders, and their Country.

Women will just have to become stronger in wrestling the power away and bring sanity to this Nation. We are the life bearers we must bring that understanding to the men that above all life is most precious. Teaching the son's to respect women, life, and values of the feminine, and teach your daughters to believe in their own self and their own place in society as valuable and should be valued.
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 28, 2014, 11:33 am
You aren't being mean. You are exercising your freedom to speak your mind. I respect that. Your comments made my point. No matter how strict gun laws are even to the point of banning them altogether simply doesn't stop the murders/crimes against another human being. There are many other weapons of choice that aren't banned and when used kill people.

Perhaps we should do some research on those cities that do not have strict gun laws and compare the numbers as it relates to crime. Many of the crimes in Chicago are black on black. Is that because of poverty, gangs, etc? What I do know is that many Americans, like myself, will own a gun and use it on anyone breaking into my home or who threaten me with bodily harm outside my home. We must have a way to protect ourselves and our families. I support our second amendment. If you do not, that doesn't ruin my day. We simply disagree.
 

Lady Suki (446)
Wednesday May 28, 2014, 11:51 am
I don't mind if someone wants to have a gun for self defense, for hunting (though I hate hunting, personally if you aren't going to eat what you kill), or for target shooting.

What I don't like is the fact that according to Google, 26% of Americans suffer from at least one mental illness. There are almost 300 million guns in this country. If people were so inclined, almost every American citizen could have a gun.

Why do we feel the NEED to be so heavily armed? What is it about American society that makes people so afraid that they are afraid to be in their own home without a gun.

I"ll be honest. I live in a safe area. I'm 24. I've never had any concerns about someone breaking in my house. So I've never seriously thought that I needed a gun to protect me. For other people that are getting away say from an abusive ex, live in a dangerous neighborhood, etc, I can understand that they might find a gun reassuring.

However, it has been shown that guns bought for self defense, are more often used on the owners. You would have to assume the following.

A) That victim would be able to reach the gun.

B) That the criminal wouldn't shoot that person before they could reach the gun or wouldn't use the weapon against the owner.

C) The owner wouldn't panic and miss. They could also hestitate. Most people, I think would hestitate before firing a shot. I don't think too many criminals would experience this.

 

jan b (5)
Wednesday May 28, 2014, 1:17 pm
... Gun Violence Medical Costs Top $630 Million a Year ... hospitalization costs, and does not include related expenses such as outpatient follow up and most cannot PAY so taxpayer pick up the tab.
Guns make it easier for people to kill other people although they are the weapon of choice for suicides too.
.Over 7000 children and adolescents are hospitalized or killed by guns each year in the U.S., But right now, if adults act responsibly and follow some rules , we can continue to reduce the number of tragedies involving kids and guns. Isn't that wonderful....a goal to reduce the numbers killed or maimed...only in the USA rah--rah --rah. The NRA will party on that one and the manufacturers and gun shops should sell more guns on that premise . God Guns and the NRA forever ! !
 

reft h (66)
Wednesday May 28, 2014, 3:19 pm
that saying about stopping a bad person with a gun by a good person with a gun - often the bad person thinks he is the good person, and other people just don't understand him. A good person can develop a mental illness and go on a rampage. I know that without guns other tools will be used, such as knives etc., but guns are much more quick and efficient. With tools you need to be up close to the person, while with a gun you can kill people from some distance. It is also very easy to shoot someone to death accidentally, or as with children getting hold of a gun and playing with it etc., while it is unlikely a similar accidental death would occur with a knife or baseball bat. If the latest mass shooter had just a knife or baseball bat, it is unlikely he would have been able to kill so many people, and may have hurt some people but not been able to kill them.
 

Debra G (0)
Thursday May 29, 2014, 12:08 pm
Just read about a 3 year old who found a gun at his 78 year old neighbors house who shot his 1 1/2 year old brother in the head. Bad gun, bad gun.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday May 29, 2014, 2:59 pm
Of course, you will read about stories like the one you described. It's very sad. That same 3 year old could also reach and grab a kitchen knife on the kitchen table or the older brother's baseball bat with the same results. Accidents happen. Negligence happens. Our government should not be in our homes policing how we live. The parents need to take care of their children so that they do not have access to these items. If anyone thinks for one nano second that banning guns is the answer focus on Chicago for awhile.
 

Lois Jordan (63)
Thursday May 29, 2014, 3:00 pm
Noted w/many thanks for posting, Cal. I agree with Michael Moore, of course. Many excellent comments above. I will add that we had an Assault Weapons Ban in the US for 10 yrs. which expired in 2004. Congress chose not to renew it, much to my dismay. THAT would be an excellent start for reform; reinstating that ban.
I have read the stats from countries like Australia & Great Britain, which have completely banned guns. Their murder rates are tiny compared to the U.S.
And, I will continue to speak out against guns until my dying day, because if not, I will feel complicit in each death. Just today I've read articles like "6 yr. old shoots grandfather" and "Grandfather shoots 5 yr. old." and "8 yr. old accidentally shoots 2 yr. old cousin." This is the tip of the iceberg.
Even gun locks, or just significantly raising the price of bullets would help. Although I also advocate for ending the production of those awful multiple clips.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday May 29, 2014, 3:19 pm
Crime still happens...."father strangles the mother" ~ home invasion: enters home with baseball bats and kills entire family; husband closes garage door and places sleeping children and wife in car with the motor running; mother drives into a lake drowning all of her children.

People kill other people and when they are set on murdering someone and they don't have access to a gun they will find a way to get the job done.

We all know this to be true.
 

Lady Suki (446)
Thursday May 29, 2014, 3:49 pm
True Diane. You can murder someone without a gun. But you know, it's a LOT easier with a gun. True or false?

 

Past Member (0)
Friday May 30, 2014, 3:03 am
That is not a question that can be answered with a yes or no. If one thinks through that question one will realize that people have been murdered in an alley or a dark street from behind with a knife, steel pipe, baseball bat and never knew what hit them. Homemade bombs is another killer and can wipe out many people as we just experienced in Boston at the marathon. Then, of course, we have 9/11 where 3,000 people were murdered in less than one hour without guns involved. People are poisoned by someone who wants them dead....carbon monoxide, running down someone with your car.

The word "easier" is too broad. Depends on the circumstances.

I appreciate your comments. Murder is murder and it comes in all shapes and forms. Banning guns is not the answer and as we know Chicago has very strict gun laws and their crime rate (with guns) is off the charts.

I support our Second Amendment.
 

Lady Suki (446)
Friday May 30, 2014, 9:59 am
Diane, I don't think that anyone is proposing banning all guns. If they are, they don't live in the real world. There are roughly 300 million guns in the U.S. Even if someone wanted to, it's unlikely you could confiscate them all. What most people are saying is that people should have to pass a background check.

Would you agree that someone with a history of mental illness or a criminal history probably should not have access to a gun?
 

Past Member (0)
Friday May 30, 2014, 1:43 pm
Background checks are fine. Would you agree that someone with a history of mental illness or a criminal history would be the very people who would NOT submit to a background check?
 

Lady Suki (446)
Friday May 30, 2014, 2:11 pm
Depends how mentally ill a person is. They might be so far "gone" that they don't realize they wouldn't pass one.

But sure, criminals aren't going to willingly submit to background checks. That's why you make gun sellers and manufacturers REQUIRE them. Makes it just a little harder for a criminal to get a gun. Sure,t hey can still buy it off their buddy. But by that logic, criminals aren't going to follow the law (that's why they are criminals). Should we get rid of all laws?
 

Past Member (0)
Friday May 30, 2014, 3:34 pm
You end all of your comments to me with a question. I like that. I have three children older than you. What I believe you are missing here is that unless "mental illness" is documented with a public medical report or by a police report then it simply doesn't exist. Unless a "criminal" has been deemed a criminal through arrest records and/or incarcerated then it doesn't exist. Common sense, once again, tells us that those who believe that a record exists will not go through a background check. So, where does that leave them? They steal a firearm IF that is their weapon of choice. They can buy it on the black market OR like the Boston bombers they can make homemade bombs and elect to kill and maim innocent people.

No, we shouldn't get rid of the laws but we should use our common sense. Would you take the time to sit down with a mortgage company for a loan when you know your credit score is below 500? What is the point? You know you wouldn't be approved for a loan. Why? Because it is documented that you didn't pay your bills.

Changing the laws on ownership of a gun does one thing....all of the law abiding Americans will absolutely go through a background check why? Because they are good people and have nothing to hide.

You are young. I'm a little long in the tooth. I would enjoy engaging in conversation with you again in 10 years. What I admire about you is that you ask the questions.
 

Lady Suki (446)
Friday May 30, 2014, 3:41 pm
I admire that you are willing to engage in civil debate.

Of course, not everyone's going to show up on a background check. Sometimes people can go undiagnosed for years. But it would "catch" some of the red alert people. Some is better than none.
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday May 31, 2014, 2:58 am
I have enjoyed discussing this with you. Agree that catching some is better than none. :)
 

Lady Suki (446)
Saturday May 31, 2014, 9:04 am
Yup, which is why they should be mandatory.
 
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