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Massive Canada Arctic Ice Shelf Breaks Away

Environment  (tags: climate-change, globalwarming, climate, environment, greenhousegases )

- 3817 days ago -
A huge 19 square mile (55 square km) ice shelf in Canada's northern Arctic broke away last month and the remaining shelves have shrunk at a "massive and disturbing" rate, the latest sign of accelerating climate change in the remote region, scientists said


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Judy C (83)
Tuesday September 2, 2008, 11:45 pm
Ellesmere Island:area 196236 sq km/75767 sq mi; population (2006) 120.

So there is still 75,717 sq. miles of ice left.

What a tragedy!

Darlene K (356)
Wednesday September 3, 2008, 7:58 pm
Strongly Noted, thank you Cal.

Chris Otahal (507)
Wednesday September 3, 2008, 8:37 pm
Thanks Cal for the information.., as Judy points out, there is A LOT MORE where that came the problems are just beginning...

Judy C (83)
Wednesday September 3, 2008, 10:28 pm
The main cause of shelf formation is when ice from a glacier or ice sheet, such as the one on Ellesmere Island, flows out into the ocean.

Accumulating snow and freezing meltwater subsequently affect it. This means the advance or retreat of the glacier or ice sheet affects the behavior of the ice shelf.

Since it is hanging out over water it is effected by numerous factors, ocean current changes, wind changes , tidal changes...and then, sometimes after a long time, they break off. Sometimes they break off earlier. It used to be called calving before hysteria set in and every icecube had to be cherished.

It is a natural process and only an alarmist could see it otherwise after being reminded of what an "ice shelf" really is.

Chris Otahal (507)
Wednesday September 3, 2008, 10:33 pm
Obviously, your not reading the article :)

Far from 'normal" ...

Elizabeth H (163)
Thursday September 4, 2008, 4:10 pm
We cannot wait 10 years for the government to get off their collective butts. Private Industry needs to stand and ACT up NOW, we do NOT have 10 years left before we are irreversibly damaged.

Chris Otahal (507)
Thursday September 4, 2008, 4:19 pm
Yes, private industry needs to act, but I would also suggest that EACH individual can ACt as well - we don't have to wait for the "other guy" to take action...we have personal power for change too...

Maryanne C (111)
Thursday September 4, 2008, 4:20 pm
Noted,thank you.

Jennifer Langer (72)
Thursday September 4, 2008, 4:36 pm
Noted. Who can foresee what the consequences will be?

Aprille Gallardo-perez (2)
Thursday September 4, 2008, 5:11 pm
Why does it take so long for some people to come to the realization that global warming is not a hoax? Now that we've finally gotten through those years of "more research," could we please agree that yes some things happen as a course of nature, and more often now-a-days that is not the case.

Ryan M (5)
Friday September 5, 2008, 11:50 am

Chris Otahal (507)
Friday September 5, 2008, 12:24 pm
Prision Planet - that is a prapaganda site, it is not even worth a visit...

The first article has been going on for quite a bit. First, everyone realises 2008 was a cool YEAR - that is called WEATHER. 2008 was influenced by a strong La Ninia event, which overwhelmes the human warming signature. Also, that graph is HIGHLY CONTRIVED. Note the cut off at year 1988? Well, the data set actually goes much further back, if those data are incluede, it wiould be seen that 2008 is STILL well above the temps in the early 1900's despite the one year of cooling...A simple "slight of hand" trick (called cherry picking)...

Martha A (8)
Friday September 5, 2008, 1:14 pm
Guys dont get so super excited about the ice melting...It has done so over millions of years and during the REnaissance period so much ice had melted that Marco Polo used the North WEst passage to travel from China to Europe...WE did not die, the poles did not shift and we are still here...Siberia was a tropical planet some 400 thousand years ago...The poles have shifted over millions of years and the earth has warmed and cooled; its all natural cylical temperature change which man has not affected....Sure we can clean up the environment, which America has done for 30 yeas but we cannot affect the weather one way or the other and government cannot change weather patterns either...The sky will not fall, just because the artic melts. REad a geology book and inform yourselves because global warming, caused by man is a lie and al goes book is filled with dis-information and outright lies....

Friday September 5, 2008, 1:42 pm
MARTHA...dear marco polo died before the Renaissance which is noted to have occurred at the point colombus sailed the ocean blue 1492.........the north west passage i think you are confusing with the theory that MARCO POLO may have used the NORTHERN SILK ROAD to return to europa .......which is located in northern china think Taklamakan Desert ..........but most people are now leaning toward him{marco polo } using a southern route .........

the north western passage was first navigated by a norwegian ROALD AMUNDSEN 1903 WELL HE COMPLETED NEAR 1907 STARTED IN 1903 .............

BUT IF ONE IS TALKING ABOUT THE "little ice age " that generally noted to be in action the end of the 1690 thru 1780 and all agree that it ended in the mid 19th century .........



Chris Otahal (507)
Friday September 5, 2008, 2:08 pm
When the eart was first created was a molten what's you point Martha? Shifting of poles is a completly different topic - not all that relevant...Were we around millions of years agao...were there BILLIONS of us adapted to a certain climatic regime??? Simlpy saying we can not change weather (or climate) is your OPINION - and not based on the facts of the matter...

However, a look at the past may be a good thing...

Fossil study links extinctions to warming

Whenever the world's tropical seas warm several degrees, Earth has experienced mass extinctions over millions of years, according to a first-of-its-kind statistical study of fossil records.

Chris Otahal (507)
Friday September 5, 2008, 4:48 pm
Thank you for the uninformed opinion again - you said that you main purpose for joining Care2 was to "protect" America from the "environmentalists" - and your biase is quite clear...

Ryan M (5)
Friday September 5, 2008, 4:50 pm
Millions of years ago the CO2 was many times the current levels. That's why plants can still utilize up to 2000 ppm CO2. Current levels are 350-400 ppm. I'm a lot more concerned with genetic manipulation/cross species cloning. That's something the earth may never recover from. But you don't hear Gore talking about that now do you! At least if global warming did make us extinct then the earth would recover! Chris you just dismiss all information you disagree with as propaganda. You just said yourself that natural global warming in the past has caused mass extinction. But somehow THIS time we are the cause and can prevent it? You're the KING of propaganda!

Past Member (0)
Friday September 5, 2008, 4:56 pm
Oh, how can any of you argue with Sarah's brilliant argument?

At least SHE knows that "Siberia was a tropical planet....."

Chris Otahal (507)
Friday September 5, 2008, 6:02 pm
Ryan - with multiple profiles - you are simply a troll - so your accusations are meaningless to me...and calling me the king of prapaganda, comming from YOU, is a compliment :)

"I'm a lot more concerned with genetic manipulation/cross species cloning."

Yes, that may be a problem, but hardly relevant to this discussion. There are many problems we face, climate change is one of them (and Gore does not discuss it because it is irrelevant to the climate discussion LOL)

Also, Ryan, I do not simply dismiss all the counter information - I weigh the entirity of the arguments... I stick by my contention, backed by the literature, that there is a 90% chance that humans are a SIGNIFICANT (not exclusive) cause of the current warming trend. There is a chance (around 10%) that I am incorrect. Given the potential castorphies of not taking action (if I am right), I am not willing to take those odds...Do you want to play Russian Rullet with 9 full chambers and one empty. I would be concerned even if there was a 50-50 chance...

Please do provide me with a reference that shows that HUMANS were areound when the earth was at 2000 ppm CO2 - maybe that might be a problem for us??? The early earth atmosphere was almost entirely methane at one time - does that mean it is a good idea to go back to those conditions???

Ryan - I am not saying we are a cause THIS time around - that is what the SCIENCE says...

Just what problems do you have with taking action anyway, you know, doing things like:

stopping deforestation
planting trees
moving away from fossil fuels
becomming more energy efficient (cutting waste)
developing less poluting energy sources (less pollutents, other than CO2 such as mercury)

We should be doing those things ANYWAYS - regardless if they effect climate or not (which they do by the way)...

Yes, there are some bad "solutions" such a nuclear and biofuels from food stocks - and we need to stop those... But denying human caused climate change will not stop them...


Marion Y (322)
Friday September 5, 2008, 6:23 pm
Chris...Two thumbs up!

Chris Otahal (507)
Friday September 5, 2008, 6:33 pm
A bit more detail Ryan. The current concentration of CO2 has not been surpassed in over 800,000 years. Recent ice core data shows that...

Here is a peer-reviewed paper of the results:

a bit complicated, yes, so here is a laymans article which explains it more simply:

Carbon dioxide levels at highest level in 800,000 years

So, as far as we humans are concerned, this is the first time we have been in a worlsd with such high levels of CO2

Martha A (8)
Friday September 5, 2008, 7:31 pm
Your comments were priceless Ryan. Chris is determined to believe we are the cause of global warming and nothing anyone can say will change his mind.

Chris Otahal (507)
Friday September 5, 2008, 7:36 pm
Yes, you and Rayan have shown quite the open mind...totally open to counter information (or in your case, no information)...LMAO :)

Ryan M (5)
Saturday September 6, 2008, 1:45 am
I never said I have ANY problem whatsoever with stopping deforestation, planting trees, moving away from oil, etc.(once AGAIN you're putting words in my mouth). The issue is that the extent to which CO2 produced by humans effects the environment IS debatable but still so many of you are ready and willing to bend over for Gore and Company and except a global carbon tax which IS NOT intended to save the environment, will fix NOTHING and will set a VERY DANGEROUS precedent for unchecked power and yet another move to world government, one child policies... a tax on BREATHING for heaven's sake! ULTIMATE bondage! A dictators dream come true! That's why even Bush is supporting it! You put entirely too much trust in politicians who are owned by special interests! You'd rather just be OBSESSED with global warming!

Chris Otahal (507)
Saturday September 6, 2008, 7:35 am
The same lame denialist montra - "a tax on breathing" - how LAME is that oil company line...yes, you show quite the open oil company sound bite after another LMAO!!!!!

Ryan M (5)
Saturday September 6, 2008, 1:41 pm
It has been called exactly that! Regardless, history shows that very little of the taxes we do pay actually goes to their "intended" purpose. Most lines the pockets of politicians and bankers. You can go ahead and pay your carbon tax. I'm NOT going to! PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS!

Ryan M (5)
Saturday September 6, 2008, 1:42 pm
And try to tell me that the picture of the earth on fire isn't propaganda hype! LMAO!!!

Chris Otahal (507)
Saturday September 6, 2008, 1:51 pm
Who said that paying a carbon tax is the onlyway to deal with the situation? Yes, it is called a "breathing tax" by industry opposed to action - quite silly actually - as is the res of your retoric :)

Marion Y (322)
Saturday September 6, 2008, 2:01 pm
Ryan...all due respect, the world IS on fire. It's called "Global Warming."

Judy C (83)
Saturday September 6, 2008, 2:04 pm
Even crazy as a hoot Lovelock said recently on Radio New Zealand that carbon trading schemes will do nothing for the environment and only enrich the carbon traders. But then he thinks the world is doomed and everyone should move to new Zealand.

Actually, it wasn't industry who thought up "tax your breath". It is a very old saying. My folks, who were all born around 1900, said with frequency..."next they will figure out some way to tax your breath" or variations on that.

Considering carbon trading was thought up by Ken Lay of Enron and presented to the Clinton White House, who loved the idea, I can't see anybody defending it.

Did you know that Gore's daughter married into the family that controls Goldman Saks, the biggest NYC brokerage house which is also setting up a carbon trading system?

Ah, these oligarchs...nothing like keeping it in the family.

Chris Otahal (507)
Saturday September 6, 2008, 2:15 pm
Actually, the carbon tading idea comes from the success that has been achieved with sulpher dioxide and acid rain. A cap-and-trade program was applied to sulpher dioxide and worked very well to address acid rain.

The Cap and Trade Success Story

Snice you mention Lovelock, lets do see what he is saying:

Wake Up, We Are On The Brink of Extinction!

"If we don't act now to change our dependence on fossil fuels and stop our CO2 emissions, then it will be curtains for human beings on Earth in the not so distant future." - James Lovelock, respected British scientist in warning to the world.

I don't necessarily agree with all he says - but you brought him up...
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