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Against Asking for It Another Anti-Rape Ad Aimed at Men!


Society & Culture  (tags: women, violence, abuse, arts, crime, humans, rape, shaming, culture, sadness, safety, society, americans, death, ethics, GoodNews, freedoms, law, rights, news, media, internet, world, religion, politics, interesting, education, family )

Karolina
- 3254 days ago - contexts.org
A clever ad that puts the blame where it should be,on the perpetrator and not the victim.Hopefully through ads like this we can promote this message and release women from the cultural and ignorant perspectives of people saying they were asking for it.



   

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Comments

Kit B (276)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 1:25 pm
Thanks Karolina - this should be seen by everyone everywhere. The violence of rape is not a joke, nor should it be used in a joking manner. I commend you on posting this.
 

Alamzeb Khan (401)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 1:33 pm
Where had you been kit?You had been away from computer screen.I NOTED YOUR ARTICLE.
 

Nancy M (147)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 1:35 pm
Somehow though I think many men will be too dense to "get it".
 

Dee C (23)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 1:39 pm
Both infuriating and sad to think..that today.. in this day and age..there are still some out there who feels that anyone "asks" for it..

Great post Karolina..
Thank you for sharing it here..And thanks Kit..for the forward..
Duly noted..
 

Kari D (192)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 1:40 pm
I like it. Rape is NO JOKING matter & it should be pointed out to both genders
 

Barbara K (61)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 1:49 pm
There are such ignorant men who think that if a young woman looks at him that she's asking to be raped. Well, I doubt if any woman has gone up to any man and said "I want to be raped". Now notice those words. If you do not hear them from a woman, and you better get it in writing while you are at it, then she is NOT asking to be raped. If you drugged her, if she is unconscious because you got her drunk, or if you already encountered her while she was drunk, she is not asking to be raped. If she is drunk or unconscious, she is incapable of making such a decision. Just try getting by every jury by telling them that "She was asking for it". Like I said, better get it in writing, or it is rape. Rendering her incapable of making a decision, should be another charge added on top of rape. I'm sure someone came come up with a law to cover that one too. Some are such fools that they think they are so irresistible that it would be all right to rape anyone they want to. You may get away with it once, no matter how you destroyed the life of a young girl not even capable of making the decision to stay away from you, watch so you don't drug her, don't let you get her drunk, or to stop drinking until drunk. So you see, she is already incapable of asking you to rape her. But justice will be served in one way or the other down the line. Some women have been known to hunt down and kill their rapist.
 

AA S (136)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 1:55 pm
Great advert. I'm very proud of these campaigns here in Scotland. I don't know how much difference it will make, but I think sexual violence is a problem that needs attacking from all angles.

I don't understand Alamzeb's point. Are you pointing out the existence of male rape perpetrated by women? If so, you might like to reconsider your use of the word "hot". I'd like to see adverts promoting awareness of that issue too, but there's so far to go with support for even female victims I don't see it happening any time soon.
 

AA S (136)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 1:59 pm
@Barbara Great comment! There is never ever any such thing as desired rape - it's an oxymoron. Idiotic magazines keep producing survey results saying it's a top sexual fantasy for women, but that's not rape, that's role-play, it's totally, totally different.

It seems we're only just starting to get the message that any abusive sex is more abuse than sex.
 

H Nick H (1826)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 1:59 pm
Real men "get it." Rape has nothing to do with sex, looks of the woman, age of the woman, etc. It really has nothing to do with the "victim." RAPE IS POWER CONTROL. Weak minded people might resort to rape, as a form of power and control. IT IS NOT SEX. Defendats lawyers would try to make you think it is, but it's just about POWER AND CONTROL. Which is why REAL men hate rape.

SO STOP THE EXCUSES.
 

Cam V (417)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 2:01 pm
Someone call the cops on Alamzeb. If I understand what he said - that some hot women invite innocent men to rape themÉ (dang) If that is what you siad Alamzeb then you deserve to be castrated.

ANY man who resorts to this kind of violence against women deserves to be castrated. Crimes like this against children - locked up forever and forgotten about.

I have watched this ad and have mixed feelings about it. It is a message that appears to talk out of both sides of its face. A direct approach would be much better ..... rape = automatic castration.

Now THAT is a message that might make men think. But as stupid people never think I doubt it would help.
 

. (0)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 2:03 pm
Alamzeb, I don't believe I've heard about too many 'innocent men' being raped by women. I'm sure it has occurred on rare occasions under perhaps unusual circumstances; however, it's hardly a major occurrence.
 

. (0)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 2:08 pm
By the way he said it, I assumed Alamzeb was saying that 'hot women' were raping men.

If he simply misspoke, then I certainly disagree with his comment even more strongly. Because if a woman 'invites' a man to have sex, then it isn't rape. And if she is raped, she didn't issue an 'invitation'.

Unfortunately it's true that some women enjoy 'teasing' men sexually. Promising much, almost getting there - and then stopping short. A noxious practice and one that no decent woman should ever engage in; however, that isn't an invitation to rape. Since at any point either partner has the absolute right to stop - and that 'no' should be respected by the other partner. And if a man isn't capable of putting aside his lust and walking away under those circumstances, then he's not much of a man (nor is the woman, of course, much of a woman for doing that to him in the first place.)
 

Linda G (187)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 2:13 pm
Nick H I agree absolutely. Rape is all about power and dominance. I commend the video and hope the sarcasm is not too subtle. Noted, thanks for the article.
 

MarieAnne Duhem (93)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 2:26 pm
Excellent ad, but I'm afraid I agree as well that rape is a matter of controlling someone weaker...
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 2:27 pm
No one asks to be raped--it is a violent act. I was a victim of rape at age 17 and nothing before or since has impacted the course of my life like that event.
 

liz c (827)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 2:36 pm
Great news to forward--which I am doing now--thank you.
 

Michael Carney (217)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 2:54 pm
Well, as Nick pointed out...A real Man will get it, and a real Man, hates rape as much as a Woman does...A rapist in my view, ought to be castrated, if he's found guilty, no second chances to commit another rape...
 

Yvonne White (229)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 3:04 pm
Rapists are predators & must be stopped by Everyone in society. Jokes, "boys will be boys", and slaps on the wrists only encourage & embolden these Terrorists! Stop the Violence & Enlighten Society!
 

AA S (136)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 3:14 pm
It's not a man vs. woman thing in the slightest. Unfortunately cultural perception of male sexuality is that it is inherently competitive, emotionless and selfish. Men raped by women have few resources to even understand what happened to them, let alone feel comfortable describing it as rape, and it'd be practically impossible to prosecute, even where it's illegal. While it may not be as common as male-on-female assault, to deny that it happens is to deny that women are as psychologically powerful as men. It's rapists vs non-rapists that's the meaningful division. Anyway, more on that (for the curious) here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsOkWhenItIsFemaleOnMale and here: http://www.aest.org.uk/survivors/male/myths_about_male_rape.htm

But to return to the point, sadly I'm coming round to thinking that Alamzeb's comment is indeed referring to women "asking" to be raped. It just hadn't occurred to me that anyone would refer to a rapist as "innocent". But then I haven't read the comments in Care2's Women's Rights section in a while! ;) If you did indeed mean to do so, Alamzeb, do some research and don't be such a scumbag.
 

Thomas C (116)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 3:17 pm
Interesting but I wonder why they chose Scottish actors to promote the message!
 

Karolina G (31)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 3:20 pm
@ Alice..thank you for looking at the issue of Rape for men as well.Great links and it's wonderful to see you contributing this great comment.
 

Gregory H (422)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 3:21 pm
I loathe the "she invited it" or "she asked for it" mentality and support anything and everything that can be done to eradicate the crime of rape. In part for that reason I despise the pervasive celebration of male macho in our culture and media, including the frequent theme of movies idolizing the male capable of the greatest physical aggression and dominance.
 

Kit B (276)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 3:25 pm
I think the ad speaks for itself, in any country, some more then others women are vulnerable to rape. This is violence and not sexual. In America, it has become the punch line for jokes and used in many inappropriate ways. There is no excuse, and no enticement that justifies rape.
 

Deborah O (98)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 3:32 pm
Blaming the victim is as old as the crime itself.
 

. (0)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 3:49 pm
Someone just privately reminded me that when I talked about women raping men being rare I was overlooking statutory rape of boys by older women, which certainly does happen sometimes - in my earlier comment, I was only talking about forcible rape, which (woman raping man) is something I simply haven't heard about much personally, though I'm told it does happen.
 

Barbara K (61)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 3:54 pm
Nick, you are so correct. Rape is a violent crime, it is a control and power thing. Real men wouldn't do it to a woman. A real man would want a woman who wants him too, not one he has to rape.
 

Rhonda Maness (580)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 4:50 pm
Thanks Kit and Karolina
 

Nancy L (141)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 5:35 pm
Nothing will stop a rapist. There needs to be much tougher laws in this area. If they are locked up and castrated they can't rape.
 

Anne T (180)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 6:02 pm
Noted and shared :)
 

Bryan S (92)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 6:20 pm
Men who rape should be castrated. That's the only way it will ever stop or slow down. Men will think twice about raping a woman/child if they know the judge will have their "manhood" removed. But until then, things will stay the same.
 

William Papineau (1)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 7:17 pm
I appreciate this ad because it counters the puritanistic tendency to blame the victim of sexual crimes, confronting the issue directly and non-violently. It will not prevent rape, but I think it will possibly jar some men into seeing how they objectify women. In my experience, that's a major ingredient in the recipe that produces crimes against women.
 

Andrea Dorazio (56)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 9:17 pm
Wow this is a great ad! it would be fantastic if it were aired here, or at least something similar. I cant believe men still think that way but some really do! I just had a heated argument with a guy I thought was pretty sensitive about this sort of thing. It was a bit different..it was a "she shouldnt have been in that place" type of thing. But no matter what, guys, it is NEVER the womans fault!!! I couldnt fathom how a man could still think that way! But obviously some do. We need ads like that here!!! Now!!! Thanks Karolina, it felt good getting that off my chest.
 

Kit H (173)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 9:35 pm
There is something wrong with our education/belief system. Male chauvinism is still lurking in the sub-conscience of the society. We need to bring it to the light and change it.
 

Laurie IS AWAY S (128)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 9:57 pm
Kit thanks for sharing this. I like the idea of the ad. I wonder though, do you think younger people will just laugh at it? I obvioulsy take it seriously and wish that there were ads like this everywhere to put the idea in everyone's mind ( more often) that this is not a joke and that it forever destroys lives. I think the message needs to shared with everyone & more often. Thanks for the post, Karolina
 

William K (308)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 10:20 pm
It is a great add, and very tastefully done. It would be nice if something like that could be aired in the US.
 

Alexa R (319)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 10:32 pm
Thanks for sharing Karolina. This ad is ABSOLUTELY brilliant!

Can it be made law that EVERY man should see it? And at least once a day?

Three cheers to the Scotts!

Though I suspect that as some of the above commenters pointed out, it may not stop a rapist, but at least a rapist would be clear on the point that a woman does not ask for it. As some commenters pointed out too, I agree, it is not about lust but rather control. The rapist only uses lust and provocation as an excuse for the crime committed.

This advert would stop others from believing the rapist when he claims 'she asked for it'. This is where this ad would have the good/positive impact. Other people would not let the rapist 'get away' with this lousy excuse: "she asked for it".
 

Ian MacLeod (79)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 11:15 pm
Northern and others, about Alemzeb:

From that comment I would have to guess he is Muslim, and probably has been taught by someone like the Taliban - Wahabbists at the very least. THAT IS WHAT THEY TEACH, FROM ALMOST CHILDHOOD ON! That is why women are punished for being raped in the Middle East. "Innocent men," if they are exposed to bare female flesh, eyes or even to much proximity, she tempts him beyond his endurance as a male and he rapes her - to the damage of his own soul. Women are all sirens who have this power over men. They are told to watch for it, but remember they are also told they can be overpowered by it. This is a belief that is hammered in. Instead of attacking him, how about trying reason, perhaps awakening a little empathy? Attacks will teach him nothing.

Ian
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Wednesday July 28, 2010, 11:48 pm
Thomas C - probably because they were the first to think of it and they do it so well.
I also think there has to be some onus on some of the women by the way they dress, drink, swear and carry on- since what some women wear leaves NOTHING to the imagination. Whilst no one 'asks for it' -sadly we live in a society today where rape and assault is the norm and not the exception any more. It is not all that long ago that we had young daughters at home and we made sure we knew who their friends were, where they were going, set time limits and dressed appropriately.
 

Kendra richards (4)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 12:23 am
Im so glad to see something being done about this! As a rape victim myself, Ive heard my share of "you probably deserved it" Im fed up with ignorance and am happy that we women, are finally being acknowledged!
 

Arild Warud (174)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 12:24 am
I believe Nick said what we all think about this,Thanks for the post Karolina.
 

Monica D (580)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 12:26 am
Very good ad!
 

Hugh M (75)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 1:36 am
Rape is the sexual invasion of another's body without consent and is a heinous crime and normally has psychological consequences that last for years and even for the whole of life if the victim cannot find a way to free her/himself of the power of the psychological trauma. To rape anyone is completely unacceptable and to think that anyone, male or female, would invite this is an act of self deception with no basis in reality. I came into contact with this horror as a sexual abuse counsellor for eighteen years and learned just how serious these actions are. Any person group or religion that teaches that men have a right to use a woman for the pleasure of a man without regard for the woman's choice is so far from real love that it is incomprehensible to those of us that believe that part of our reason for being here is to care truly for others. It is not only women who are abused, as others have said here. I can tell you from hearing real stories that the effect on men who are raped is at least as deep as experienced by women. The most dangerous person I ever met, incapable of feeling any compassion at all, was a man who was raped by a woman more than once when he was a powerless child.
Forget about castration. It has been tried and proven only successful for some. As rape is a crime of power it is not truly sexual in repeat offenders. The urge to power is not completely linked to the testicles. Repeat offenders have gone on to reoffend after castration.
One myth is that women 'ask for it' and this ad addresses that problem elegantly and with typical Scottish humour. Another myth is that rape is sex. Let's change our language on that. Rape is a form of assault and worthy of the most serious consequences through law by anyone who commits it.
The abhorrent connection between sex and violence/power over another in our society has been strengthened and reinforced by popular cultural media, movies, songs, and the like. A culture of unconditional acceptance within the psychotherapy community has helped stretch the boundaries of behaviour so some groups are openly advocating violence as a part of sexuality. How absurd! Such views have even been expressed in Care2 articles. No wonder it is so hard to obtain a conviction in a rape trial with such confusion in society.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 2:03 am
please help fight back against the sex industry (which does seem to advocate violence against women) by signing www.thepetitionsite.com/1/close-down-free-porn-sites
many thanks
 

Lou Olive (41)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 2:22 am
It's funny that it's only men saying they asked for it? I wish really that women would start taking up some Marchall arts sport! And for this guy to try it with the wrong gal! She should give him so many, but i mean so many knocks, That after he comes out of the hospital...He won't even try to look at a woman that way again! then another thing here, chemical castration for men who have violated women more than once immediately...NO QUESTIONS ASKED! Put the baby to sleep forever!
 

chris b (2474)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 2:39 am
Anything that can inform on this subject has to be good news! On a lighter note perhaps the implication of using Scottish actors has something to do with the tradition of Scotsmen not wearing anything under their Kilts and I have never heard of Scotsmen being targeted as rape candidates but then I'm only a quarter Scottish! There is of course the implication in certain societies and religions that skimpy or brightly coloured female dress and make up is synonymous with immoral behaviour and I think tends to reinforce the "Asking for it" culture. Dress codes that cover up females have been the subject of much heated discussion especially where woman do not enjoy equality or are considered property and even in places where they do or at least are supposed to! In my social activity of dance one is frequently in close contact with females in outfits that leave little to the imagination. Being a gentleman is of course something that is in my upbringing and allows me to enjoy the experience without embarrassing my partner or diminishing her femininity, dancing is much about showing off one's abilities as well as one's assets!
 

Agnes H (144)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 3:15 am
The answer I got when i finally got around to asking the question " Why did you do it" was " because I had to prepare you for live!" That was my father who said that and at the time I thought it was normal as I was under 10 yrs of age. I wasn't allowed to go out at nights not even with my best friend. The first time I went out to a mixed party was when I was 20. He didn't stop until my husband moved in with us. I was brought up strickt Catholic and we weren't told about those things. I don't see him anymore!
 

chris b (2474)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 3:19 am
Hugh M. I'm a little confused by your comment about psychotherapists and unconditional acceptance! Do you mean Counselors and other Psychotherapists are encouraging rape, I sincerely hope not! Unconditional acceptance is simply the non judgemental view of the therapist when accepting a client! Put simply many on Care2 would not be able to be counselors because of their particular viewpoint! For example if one was presented with a rapist, murderer, paedophile, animal abuser, wife basher or the like most of us would have difficulty in seeing beyond the evil and horrendous nature of the crime the individual had committed. A Counselor in the UK who is a Psychotherapist by definition and a considerable number of years of professional training, has to see beyond the crime and look at the causes and the individual and hopefully facilitate their recovery and rehabilitation. Of course this is but one area of counseling as the title is used for different things. In the US the qualifications are less that those of a UK counsellor and in the UK some who are called counselors are problem specific advisors rather than counselors or Psychotherapists, Examples include smoking cessation, marriage guidance, drug addiction, bereavement etc. Some with these specific ttles may of course be counselors as well. If you have evidence of any professional advocating violence of any kind I would suggest you address your concern to the appropriate professional body as anyone who advocates violence should be struck off their professional register! Not forgetting of course that advocating and thereby inciting violence is in most societies is also a criminal offence!
 

chris b (2474)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 4:01 am
The excuses for rape are bizarre when they cite religion! A friend once told me she had been anally raped by her father from the age of ten to early teens. His reasoning for not using the front entrance was that as a Catholic his religion forbade contraception and if she had got pregnant as a result of his frontal penetration it would have been a sin! With that kind of twisted logic that determined anal rape to be OK but not vaginal rape not to be. One can only guess at the devious mind in play behind it! Life is sadly full of deviant and perverse people and logic I can no more understand rape than I can understand David Cameron's (current UK Prime Minister) desire to reintroduce fox hunting and gain enjoyment from seeing an animal ripped apart by dogs or any other form of gratuitous killing! Maybe the notion that rape is not about sex but about control is only half the picture and in fact the pleasure derived from control is no different from any other pleasure that causes the brain to up the pleasure chemicals. Perhaps the very idea of sex being pleasurable is such an anathema to most that we shroud it in obfuscation for societal nicety to deny our base instincts and separate us from the beasts! Whatever motivates the rapist from lack of control to being a fundamentally violent person people need protecting from their attentions. The idea that an unwilling woman give tacit permission by her dress is flawed and should not be an excuse for the rapist it should also be remembered that men are raped as well as women, one assumes by the same kind of brutish mentality!
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 4:54 am
@ Alamzeb: A comment that even perpetuates the thought that a woman (regardless of her looks) invites the possibility to be raped is the most ASININE thing I have ever read or heard!!!!!! Let it be put in small words so your brain can process this....... RAPE=WRONG!!!!!!! Stick to reading the comments and keep your mouth shut!!!!
 

Tami M (1)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 5:09 am
I love this ad! I wish it could be aired here in the US. I do wonder if some people would be too dumb to get the message. :(
 

. (0)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 5:19 am
Perhaps Ian is right and Alamzeb was simply raised to believe that any woman exhibiting certain behaviors or showing too much flesh is a temptress and men who rape her are indeed innocent because they are tempted beyond human endurance.

If so, Alamzeb: I have a better opinion of men than that. I don't see men as base animals who are unable to control their actions to such an extent that they simply cannot stop themselves from raping a woman. In fact, if I believed that I'd have to advocate that we segregate all men in locked compounds and only allow them out under guard. Because you, and all your male brethren, would simply be too dangerous to be allowed to roam freely in society.

But the reality is that most men don't rape women. No matter how sexually aroused they may be, no matter how 'tempted' they may be - they make a choice to be decent and honorable human beings in that respect and recognize that they have control over their own instincts. A man who cannot control his impulses regarding rape has a mental disorder - and a man who refuses to control his impulses regarding rape is evil. And I really don't see all men as either mentally disordered or evil monsters.

In the same way that most humans choose not to murder or to rob banks no matter how tempted they may be, so do people (both men and women) choose not to rape. Because they know it's wrong and the religious among them should be concerned that rape would put them in danger of losing their immortal souls for such a despicable act.
 

patricia lasek (317)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 6:34 am
Excellent ad. Good for the Scots! Rape is about ccontrol, not sex!
 

Sheryl G (359)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 7:27 am
Well said Ian......there are many who have been conditioned, brainwashed, since birth. It it going to take a serious cultural change of a few generations for that concept to go by the way. I would hope that the men themselves would realize how much of a diservice to themselves this type of thinking brings into their own lives, and that their culture would flourish if both sexes were treated with dignity and respect. It is not at all respectful nor dignified to view a woman the way they do....it is the opposite of what they are trying to do.

Rape is a crime.....it is a forceful brutal act. Men and woman of any society should not tolerate it and no human brings it on to themselves, be they male or female and certainly never a child, our most vunerable. It is an act of Power brought down by that persons own failure to keep their OWN actions in control, which then forces another human to do something against their will they do not want.
 

Cynthia Davis (340)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 7:35 am
It all about put down or taring someone else down isn't it Northern. There are more ways then one to Rape someone and it's never asked for.
 

pam w (139)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 7:52 am
Having just spent four days in the Islamic town of Lamu, Kenya, I've seen women covered to the eyeballs in order to NOT inflame the sexual desires of passing men. Obviously, anyone showing as much as a temple is "asking for it."
 

Ian MacLeod (79)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 8:00 am
Thanks for adding that, Lindsey! Chris missed it entirely. Instead of spitting in the face of an entire culture - or several, actually - reason might make a difference. I've spoken with Arabs who believed as he does. It's huge part of several Arab cultures. Getting the idea across is really difficult. And telling them that even a wife can be - and should NEVER BE - raped is like saying black is white to them.

I've explained that in this culture a woman has the right to say "No!" AT ANY POINT! When I was first starting out with sex, a few times a woman would say, "No, No..." and I'd stop like I'd hit a brick wall and ask, only to be told,"If you stop now I'll kill you!" I'm afraid I'd still do the same thing though; gotta be sure, so I'd stop and ask, "Do want me to stop? Are you okay?" I've always required enthusiastic cooperation, myself, and any hint of lack of enthusiasm and I'll propose a footrub or walk or something. I can NOT understand why a man would want a women who didn't want him. Since then as well, I've added other rules: NEVER take a woman to bed for the first time if drugs or alcohol are involved. And if there's a recent separation, especially like "A week ago," I'd rather wait, and not be used as a weapon in a breakup. That, and it's a good policy to figure EVERYBODY lies about sex, even when there are some who don't. "Oh, we have an open relationship," will get a, "Great; have HIM tell me that" from me. It should always be a mutual gift, and though a couple may choose to concentrate on one partner's pleasure sometimes, it still works out that way. Consideration is, I think, the first rule.

Ian
 

Ian MacLeod (79)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 8:04 am
Dandelion, I missed your reply. That's the way it's almost always viewed. I've learned there's another, though: cowards who are so afraid of rejection, so socially incompetent that they actually choose rape to avoid rejection, and as - they think - the only way they will ever get that close to a woman they're attracted to. It's amazing how the human mind can work - and FAIL TO work! I'm sure that kind of "thinking" is another manifestation of childhood abuse of one sort or another.

Ian
 

. (0)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 8:47 am
And there's another factor to consider regarding the kind of cultural attitudes some have about rape (both marital and non-marital). If some cultures really do teach their men that it's OK to force their wives to have sex against their will or that a woman who is scantily dressed or acts provocatively is tempting men beyond endurance and they therefore have no control over their sexual urges and must rape her, then men from those cultures really cannot be allowed in Western societies. Because Western women are not going to modify their dress or behavior to conform to the needs of men from those cultures (reasonably enough, since it's our culture and our standards and others have to conform to those standards if they want to come here).

We will continue to wear bikinis if we wish or to wear dresses with low cleavage or to flirt with men if we like, etc. And we cannot allow any man into Western society who feels he will be so overcome and overwhelmed with sexual desire for those women that he will be unable to stop himself from raping those women. We have more than enough of our own sexual assailants to deal with - we don't need to deliberately import more.

So that kind of attitude simply reinforces the belief of many that men from traditional Islamic cultures will never fit in to Western cultures and should not be allowed to come here because they will be a danger to us. And is that the attitude any Muslim really wants to create and promote?
 

Mike Feenaughty (267)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 9:39 am
Noted.
 

Michael Masley (4)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 9:55 am
noted
 

Ian MacLeod (79)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 11:26 am
Lindsey - Somehow,a t the very least, such cultures needs to know that in America and other Western countries, bare female skin is NOT permission to rape. Even if a woman ends up in your bed and sex has begun and she changes her mind, It's still her prerogative to say "No!" - at any point in the process until it's over. They need to know that THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR RAPE, and that here, unlike back home where a man's testimony is better than two women's and a woman needs four witnesses that it was rape, her accusation and other evidence can put him in prison. I don't see a way to filter out visitors from a several different groups out of several different countries. We'd have to refuse entry to Wahabbists - a religion - and Taliban (I don't see a problem there though), and possibly other religions. Some offshoots of those ALLOW rape by a male family member - it's an expected privilege. In others the family executes the woman afterwards even though she had no power over the incident. A 15 year old girl was buried alive in her family's back yard for the latter kind of incident. They found dirt in her mouth, stomach and lungs. I cannot imagine her horror, and it was her grandfather who did it.

Ian
 

Nancy M (147)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 11:34 am
Now that I have had a moment to get back on, I want to thank all the people who sent me stars for my comment above. I was being a bit flippant though I do think there is some truth to that.

More importantly, I also want to say that I hope I have not offended any of the men here with that remark. It has been great to see so many of you here commenting in a positive way about the message. I have sent many of you green star and am about to finish the job.

Yes Nick, real men do get it. Thanks.
 

Nancy L (141)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 11:39 am
** In others the family executes the woman afterwards even though she had no power over the incident. A 15 year old girl was buried alive in her family's back yard for the latter kind of incident. They found dirt in her mouth, stomach and lungs. I cannot imagine her horror, and it was her grandfather who did it. **

And these are the people Obama wants to sit down and "talk" with.
 

Dylan Thomas (27)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 12:46 pm
bottom line, a woman could be the sluttiest nymphomaniac whore, BUT when she says NO that is it. SHE MEANS NO. her normal behavior is irrelevant. NO MEANS NO. i hate to have so crude and frank in this manner but let me say it again. NO MEANS NO. yes i am a man but i have a wife, a daughter and 3 beautiful grand daughters. WHEN THEY SAY NO IT MEANS NO. regardless of how they are dressed, or even undressed for that matter. violence against women has to stop. we need to force our courts to do their job, uphold the law and see that justice is served. the hell with implied consent and other rulings that uphold the concept that no means anything other than no.this isn't justice. one more time NO MEANS NO ! ! ! !
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 12:47 pm
@Ian, I guess I did miss it entirely...... I do not regularly attend church and don't pretend to read the Bible but somehow I don't think there's anything in there about it being ok to rape a woman. Culturally, religiously, whatever...... and with that in mind, if Islam is, along with Judaism and Christianity, considered to be one of the three Abrahamic traditions, I doubt there is anything in the Qur'an that would say it's ok or allowable for a man to rape a woman. If you "shall not commit adultry" and "shall not covet thy neighbor's wife" (taken from the Ten Commandments) and there are six articles of faith in Islam, one of which is belief in the original scriptures revealed to Prophet Moses, how is it again that it would be ok to commit rape??? One other thing I found to be interesting........ "Muslims do not believe in the concept of "vicarious atonement" but rather believe in the law of personal responsibility. Islam teaches that each person is responsible for his or her own actions. On the Day of Judgment Muslims believe that every person will be resurrected and will have to answer to God for their every word, thought, and deed. Consequently, a practicing Muslim is always striving to be righteous." The part about each person is responsible for his/her own actions really made me wonder.........
Maybe you're right Ian, maybe I did "miss it entirely".


 

Ian MacLeod (79)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 1:11 pm
That part you didn't miss at all, Chris. As far as I can tell it isn't Scripture, it's Sharia. It's totally self-serving for the men who wrote the opinions, which are binding on others, depending on the place. It's a savage culture that's determined never to be dragged out of the thirteenth century.

Ian
 

Steven Gray (55)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 1:37 pm
Thank you Karolina & Kit. I hope this makes it worldwide.
 

Kit B (276)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 1:47 pm
Some one said nothing can stop a rapist...I beg to differ, the business end of a Colt .45 is very effective at stopping rape.
 

Dylan Thomas (27)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 2:01 pm
NE L said: * In others the family executes the woman afterwards even though she had no power over the incident. A 15 year old girl was buried alive in her family's back yard for the latter kind of incident. They found dirt in her mouth, stomach and lungs. I cannot imagine her horror, and it was her grandfather who did it. **

And these are the people Obama wants to sit down and "talk" with.

NE L i would love to see what proof you have that obama wants to sit down and talk with the people who are GUILTY of burying this young girl alive. because she was raped by her grand father. because if in fact this were true, then i would want to know the reasoning. if he wants to sit down with GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS of a country where these practices take place to try to iron out some political problems between the 2 countries or to discuss such human rights abuses i see no problem with that. the dialogue has to start somewhere, it's called diplomacy. it would be a lot better than ignoring the situation like the bush administration and others before him did.
unless obama is pushing through legislation banning anti rape ads like this, or threatening a veto of legislation allowing ads like this, or supporting some sort of pro rape legislation, i believe your anti obama comment is totally irrelevant to this discussion.
 

Dylan Thomas (27)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 2:12 pm
as for the video, i liked it, it was short and to the point. the fact is, everyone wants to look their best, we all want to look a bit sexy but no one wants to be raped.
rape isn't about sex, it's about power, control, violence and brutality. that and nothing more.
it's violence against women.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 2:44 pm
@Ian, I meant no disrespect to you, as far as Alamzeb, I think next time he wishes to comment on such a "volatile" subject, he should choose his words carefully. Some people (namely myself) do not take lightly such a flippant attitude (Alamzeb's comment) about such a serious subject. I also think that "hiding" behind a culture, religious scripture, "belief", or whatever is a total F'n copout! Wrong is wrong, no matter where you come from. If I saw a rape being committed, whether it was here in the USA or over in the Middle East, the LAST thing I would be trying to do is "reason" with the POS!!! (and I wouldn't be "spitting in his face either, just putting my boot to it)
 

. (0)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 3:35 pm
Very true, Kit. But you might consider a shotgun instead - it has a wider spread and one is pretty much guaranteed to hit something vital (including something extremely vital to the rapist.....)
 

Ian MacLeod (79)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 3:40 pm
Yeah, but the splatter-factor sucks when you have to clean it up...

Ian
 

Nancy M (147)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 4:09 pm
Mace and/or pepper spray would probably do the job without the mess.
 

Ian MacLeod (79)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 4:22 pm
Catherine,

I've seen as much writing that says porn provides a release, an outlet that a rapist might not otherwise have, and so he might turn to stalking, bedroom window peeking, and move on to rape that much sooner as I have blaming rape on porn. I think it's a lot of hogwash. Men who are rapists are going to rape with or without porn. I rarely look at it anymore as it's gotten too denigrating of women, but there was a time I enjoyed it a lot, and I have NEVER been remotely capable of rape. The porn made by and for women is generally much more artistic and enjoyable when I do bother.I've met a number of men who say the same thing. In fact, the seemingly set formula for it these days is almost comedic - it's looks like a couple of contortionists who can't make up their minds, with a fillip at the end that just looks like the guy should've been issued a crosshairs-sight or GPS or something so he can find his way around... and when you add the sound, you HAVE to conclude that the woman is a ventriloquist, possibly with a medical problem like Linda Lovelace in "Deep Throat." Whatever happens though, you're not go to get rid of it. It began, supposedly, as religious art, it continued as art in almost all parts of the world, and personally, I can think of worse things to worship! For that matter, I can think of few better. Sometimes I regret somewhat not having brought my drawing skills up to that level, and I may do that yet. And I don't mean to make a joke out of rape; The fact that it happens to such a high percentage of women says to me this is, sexually, a very, very sick society, but you cannot even begin to lay that at the door of pornography. If you want to make a dent in it, change the ultra-repressive, fanatic Christians who teach their children so much shame around sex, often with physical abuse, that sex and violence are forever linked in their minds. In fact, rape happens FAR more in the Bible Belt than elsewhere. As does divorce, teen pregnancies and STDs. It's an extremely paychically toxic form of religion.

Really though, porn is about ubiquitous as sex; both are going to happen whatever the laws or societal rules say as long as there are cameras, or even halfway talented artists, and not all of them are male. All you can do is ruin someone's life prosecuting something you really have no business legislating in the first place except to protect children from predators. I've talked with women who felt they'd been tricked or even forced into it, but there IS legal recourse there, and I've spoken with others who enjoyed that work, and felt they could never have made that good a living at anything else legal. And they say the fans are almost always respectful, as they are with other stars. And like with other stars, there's always a jerk or some twisted screwball in the crowd who thinks he actually has some sort of relationship with her, just like with soap stars. You could make a movie about the human race and probably title it without much opposition. "Planet of the Jerks." That's something else you're never going to get rid of. Somehow, one picture I've had for a long, long time is of a lovely young woman who arrives in Heaven, and the first angel she meets gives her big smile, sticks his hand out and says, :Hey - pull my finger!"

Face it; they're everywhere.

Ian
 

Evelyn Z (300)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 4:37 pm
Kit = a Colt 45 is "ok" = but I have found that a 357 Mag with Wadcutters is even better!!
 

David Gould (155)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 4:49 pm
As a Scot I connect with this advert on several levels. The sad fact is that many males in Scotland as elsewhere believe they are the gift all women have been waiting for...and when they find that women are not impressed by drink fueled attempts at chatting up resort to criminal punishment of their victims.
Rape is the most under reported crime in the world as so many feel sordid and tarnished and unable to report it.
Men need to realise that other human beings have rights equal to their own. There should be no hiding behind the law...rape is theft with violence and should result in an automatic life sentence. No excuses. No one asks for it...people like to look nice when they go out to have fun...simple really.
 

Karolina G (31)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 5:50 pm
I just wanted to thank each and every one of you for making this front-page news,you are all contributing by spreading this very important message.I am also very impressed with many of your comments on this subject,Thanks!! I have so many green stars to hand out now :)
 

Carol H (40)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 7:58 pm
Ask any shrink, rape is about power. When a man rapes an 80 year old woman or a nun, it's not about "She asked for it". RAPE IS ABOUT POWER OVER SOMEONE ELSE. The power to destroy. It's a sick mind! Jeez, I wish everyone would understand this.
 

Himmat Singh (0)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 9:48 pm
Woh!!!!!!!!!!!! A blow on the face of all the desperate and disgusting animals,hovering around to look for someone and labeling them as "Asking for it". I love the post !!!!!!!!!!
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday July 29, 2010, 10:33 pm
Thanks, Karolina!
 

ron ace (2)
Friday July 30, 2010, 12:18 am
It's really disappointing to know that some men are just taking this serious thing as a joke. They should start growing upnow. Thanks Karolina.
 

Mandy M (13)
Friday July 30, 2010, 12:25 am
Noted, thank you Karolina.
 

Ian MacLeod (79)
Friday July 30, 2010, 1:43 am
A joke? I hope you're not referring to my comments on porn. Rape is no joke, and I don't treat it that way. I've walked out of the room during such scenes in a movie because it makes me so damned angry. When I was in my early twenties I talked to a lot of women I knew and found out that almost two out of three had been raped. I was flabbergasted! And only two out of I don't remember how many had reported it; neither resulted in a conviction, and one resulted in the woman (girl at the time) and her family being run out of town! As I said above, America is a sick, sick society in some ways, and we fall far short of our lofty ideals. This knowledge is one of reasons for my own protectiveness of women in general in addition to my respect and admiration.

I've been there for women friends after such incidents since then, and stood by them during abortions afterwards. One woman didn't want to see the result, or know anything about it. She was one of the most calm, peaceful people I've ever known, and she HAD to have that abortion; she was truly afraid she'd either cut it out herself even at the cost of her life or strangle it at birth. She insisted that I be there to hold her hand during the abortion, which was done with a prostaglandin (a hormone that caused a miscarriage). After that, all I could do was hold her for the better part of a few days of recovery time, make sure she ate, got enough water, listen when she needed to talk, and keep the tissues handy. And wish I could find the guy, but he'd slammed her head against a brick wall just outside a bar where she'd met some friends and she had no idea who it was. They found her in the alley just around the corner, pretty badly beaten.

Can't think of anything to add to that, and I hadn't realized how much anger I still have over that. I can't imagine her feelings. But I CAN understand the reasons for them, most of them I think, and respect her and her decisions. And do what I can to see it doesn't happen to friends of mine, at least. I've always been available as an escort on request, and I hate the necessity.

Ian.
 

Leia P. (7)
Friday July 30, 2010, 2:58 am
no one evvvver askes to be raped
 

Cynthia Davis (340)
Friday July 30, 2010, 6:29 am
I grow up in the 50's and 60's and we were taught as girls to dress properly and to not tempt men. I can quote my Mother still today " Don't dress like a slut and you won't be treated as one." We were TAUGHT that dressing provocatively invites rape. Many churches teaches this stuff still today. It is a mind set of many people here in this country and it is not just Muslims that believe a women should not dress provocatively. As women we have had this stuff pounded in our heads for generations. We need adds like this to help not only men but women as well see that this mind set is wrong. Stop blaming Muslims for beliefs we have had our self, just not as radical.
 

Nancy M (147)
Friday July 30, 2010, 7:17 am
Thank you Cynthia. I can't speak for the Muslim community but when I was in Israel I did go the west bank and we never had problems with the Arabs there. Admittedly some were Christian but many were not. We were asked to cover our shoulders at certain sites (Dome of the Rock, for example). We were aslo asked to do this at some of the churches we went to in Italy.

Ever culture has violence and rape against women. How many men in America beat there wives? How often is anything done about it?
 

Lynn Marie M (22)
Friday July 30, 2010, 7:21 am
Good ad, interesting posts.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Friday July 30, 2010, 8:04 am
Cynthia I too recall those days of growing up. If you didn't dress in the right manner one was "asking for it."

My Mother also was a broken women, divorced so I also got, "Men only want you for one thing."

Between the two statements pounded in my head.....that was a long road before I got my head straightened out of both those.
 

catherine s (3)
Friday July 30, 2010, 8:16 am
I dont like the ad
 

diane n. (6)
Friday July 30, 2010, 1:10 pm
ni
 

Deanna Zimmerman (74)
Friday July 30, 2010, 11:01 pm
It was too short for most men (those who are inclined to rape) to get.
 

. (0)
Saturday July 31, 2010, 6:59 am
Deanna, I don't think that most men who are 'inclined to rape' wouldn't get the message this ad sends. I think that most (not all) rapists simply don't care that what they're doing is wrong. Just like most thieves know perfectly well that theft is wrong (and would be very offended if someone else stole from them) - but they steal anyway.

While I'm sure there are some instances of rape where the rapist will actually feel justified in his actions, I believe most who aren't insane or suffering from some form of mental defect are under no illusions about the wrongness of what they're doing. They just do it anyway - because they want to and believe they won't get caught or punished.
 

Barry AWAY T (937)
Saturday July 31, 2010, 7:46 am
I think there are many men (myself included) who don't think rape is a joke, don't believe anyone asks for it or deserves it or is to blame for it because they were raped. The only people to blame for it are the people who are the rapists and perhaps an extension to a culture that still perpetuates the myth that people "ask" fir it because of the way they dress, etc ... let me be clear: I have issues with the way some young women dress, but that is completely separate from the issue of rape and, however much I may not approve of the way they dress, it never does and never will justify the evil actions of others.
 

jake s (0)
Saturday July 31, 2010, 8:32 am
Excellent advertisement, short & to the point. Hopefully it may help victims of rape come to terms with the fact that no they were not 'asking for it' as they are oft told in court & by others. It may also influence the outlook of those who choose to blame the victim rather than the rapist. Whether it would stop even one rape from taking place however I don't know, since it's carried out by such individuals who would probably fail to understand the irony in the advert.
It's funn how you never hear of male rape victims being told that they must have been 'asking for it' by the clothes they wore, yet I see plenty of young men going about topless, or with their underwear & half their backsides on display due to wearing very low slung jeans.
 

Deanna Zimmerman (74)
Saturday July 31, 2010, 10:57 am
So perhaps the ad is aimed at young men who are not yet, or newly sexually active, who might have been told by their "all-knowing" friends to go for the girls who dress like they're "asking" for "it." If not them, who is this ad aimed at?
 

. (0)
Saturday July 31, 2010, 11:34 am
I personally don't see this ad as likely to do much to convince rapists from not raping per se (although as Deanna says, perhaps some very young and ignorant men might learn the error of their thinking); however, I do think it might cause some of them not to rape if enough of us take the ad's message to heart and stop allowing some of those rapists to claim justification based on the victim's actions or dress. In a sense, ads like this may help convince a potential rapist that society is getting less and less likely to allow him to get away with his crime (and that potential jurors may be less likely to take such things into account when determining guilt or in sentencing recommendations), hopefully making him less likely to offend.
 

James W (10)
Saturday July 31, 2010, 5:15 pm
Removing a perpatrators genitals won't prevent their reoffending. Sometimes female hormones can help (ie:depoprovera shots). The intravaginal "trap" is a great invention. someone stole my idea on that though....a dr did it i guess:(
 

Charmaine C (177)
Sunday August 1, 2010, 8:17 am
Rape is no joking matter.
 

Freya H (345)
Sunday August 1, 2010, 9:03 am
Women NEVER "ask" to be raped. Sure, some women act imprudently on occasion, but they never deserve sexual assault. Men who attack women this way are brutes, and should be punished severely.
 

May Brown (2)
Tuesday August 3, 2010, 5:24 pm
It's terrible, especially when some poor girls blame themselves. Rape is awful and more rapists should be in prison for what they did, but few do. It's ridiculous.
 

Michela M (3964)
Wednesday August 4, 2010, 9:58 am
Noted!!! Thanks!! Ciao!! Michela
 

Paige G (10)
Wednesday August 4, 2010, 10:26 am
I doubt that it will influence the kind of people who need this sort of clue, but it is funny and look how many people it has talking about rape and sexual violence.
 

Rose Becke (141)
Saturday August 7, 2010, 5:13 am
RAPE is RAPE nobody wants to be RAPED
 
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