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On Shooting Senate Democrats

US Politics & Gov't  (tags: DACA, government shutdown, progressive issues )

- 484 days ago -
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TomCat S (125)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 1:40 pm
When Senate Democrats agrees to end the Republican Shutdown without passing a fix for dreamers, my initial action was anger. I considered the Senators who voted against ending the Republican Shutdown heroes and still do. How those Democrats who voted for the deal were not traitors, and the did not abandon the Dreamers. They employed what they considered the best strategy, so before we consider shooting them (in jest), we should see how it works out.

Kathleen M (208)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 1:53 pm
Was very angry at first; really didn't want Democrats to roll over AGAIN. But now agree that we shouldn't shoot them quite yet...will see if their strategy is effective. Thx for sharing TC. RESIST!

Freya H (345)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 2:06 pm
Once again, some Democreeps have shown that their party has degenerated into GOP Lite. Fortunately, not all Democrats are Democreeps. Rise up, everybody, and support the truly PROGRESSIVE Democrats before we are truly a one-party nation!

David C (75)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 2:15 pm
I think we got CHIP and if McConnell doesn't negotiate/vote/etc on DACA/Dreamers then hopefully the citizens of this country will wake up and realize what lying liars the Greedy Old Perverts are especially in The is time citizens realize that the Dems do try to do what is best and possible, but we didn't support enough of them to get the Congress........or the presidency........also time the far left progressives (and many others) realize that getting to an ideal society takes time and sometimes will take incremental moves and at least we can either get the vote or make McConnell look more like a loser

Joanne Dixon (37)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 2:18 pm
I am seeing more and more reader-written articles and comments with this point of view, and it encourages me. Because, of course, this is how politics works. It isn't pretty, but it's factual. I absolutely understand the anger of minorities and the feeling betrayed. But hopefully actual Democrats will be smart enough to eventually realize that feelings are not the same as facts, the main fact in this case being that DEMOCRATS HAVE NO POWER TO NEGOTIATE.

As I said yesterday, and will probably say again many times, ewe need to grab them by the midterms. Then maybe we can get something done.


Pat B (356)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 2:23 pm
Hopefully, the Dems can keep the Dreamers dream alive, and get this resolved.
If McTurtle doesn't agree to it, we'll have another shutdown.
I agree with your statement, in your last sentence too, Tom. So true!

divergent r (309)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 2:49 pm

Ted W (127)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 4:22 pm
Noted, forwarded and shared ultra-liberally across four networks!!RESIST!!Many thanks for your continued excellent posts, TomCat!!

Colleen L (3)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 6:10 pm
Agree with you and others 100%. No reason for not taking care of the Dreamer's Act. They could of done so much better. They chose three weeks, we shall see. Thanks TomCat

Glennis Whitney (393)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 6:38 pm
Interesting article and comments will be interesting to see what happens next. Thank you for caring and sharing TomCat

Mitchell D (82)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 6:43 pm
I did not know, until now, that the Dems secured funding for CHIP, kudos to them for that.  We will see what the next round of the battle brings, but, yes, trusting McSleazy Liar is not a viable tactic.

Katie & Bill D (107)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 7:07 pm
Keep the Pressure on McConnell he is the one that promised they would do the DACA!
After all he was ~~sh~ faced when confronted!! He objected! Promised is would be address Feb 8th
TRUMPY"S Lawyers are worried about him volunteering to answer Questions under Oath he goes of the subject easily!
Thank you TomCat

Gloria picchetti (304)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 8:37 pm
I feel as if everything is on hold until the midterms.

Animae C (508)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 8:37 pm

Gene J (287)
Wednesday January 24, 2018, 11:07 pm
Shooting is an inappropriate metaphor given what has just happened for the 11th time this year. But I still want them all gone. I want them all to get what Nassar got. The Dreamers and the vast majority of this country, the world, deserve no less. These moral cowards do NOT deserve our sympathy for their plight.

Hubert Humphrey from my state once said: "The moral test of government is how it treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the aged; and those in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " I still believe that.

Bobby Kennedy defined Moral Courage as the willingness to speak truth to power. I believe that too.

I am NOT willing to give these fools an ounce of patience nor compassion, I reserve them for those they have harmed every day since 1/20/17 by their complicity in the most depraved administration and Congress in history. Do with that what you will. Think of me how you will. I will not change that opinion and will spend the remainder of my life fighting for it.

Lona Goudswaard (66)
Thursday January 25, 2018, 1:10 am
Yes, Democrats got 6 years funding for CHIP, kudos to them AND to the Republicans, because this was a bipartisan issue from the start. And they got a promise from McConnell, but not from Ryan who will not bring it to a vote in the House. But nobody mentioned what the Republicans got out of this three week deal: more military spending and a promise to discussed fully funding the president’s request for a border wall and worst of all even more tax cuts ($31 billion, including a temporary delay in implementing three health care-related taxes).

All the finger pointing has overshadowed the discussion about the actual substance of the budget deal,” said Maya MacGuineas, president of the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, “and many lawmakers don’t even seem to care that the deal they are considering — which will almost certainly include even more tax cuts following the unaffordable tax bill Congress just passed, as well as new spending increases — will add tens of billions to the deficit. There is almost zero discussion of the ongoing damage on the nation’s finances. NYT, January 22

I think there’s little chance of any financial damage control by either party in the coming three weeks; do you?

Nita L (127)
Thursday January 25, 2018, 2:20 am
I'm afraid this is a no win situation because of Ryan and th teabaggers.
Thank you TomCat

Mike M (8)
Thursday January 25, 2018, 6:06 am
The whole Democrat party needs a hard slap upside the head. With the bought election from citizens united to the agenda and buffoonery that the Republicans say and act out on TV or in the press they could press those points enough times not to bore us but to put the point across that the Republican agenda does not represent a free democracy of the United States that so many have died for protecting those rights.

Marco C (31)
Thursday January 25, 2018, 7:50 am
Clearly party politics lead to the abyss. To avoid non productive time and circumvent ideological nonsense pursuit of specific issues instead might produce desired results. Stay away from personalities and insist on results which are common sense and practical issues.

I can see no value in the proposition of spending 25 Billion on anything that isn't water, sewerage, bridges, tunnels, dams, railroads, highways, the electric grid, education, healthcare, water or air resources, much less on a "wall" in the middle of no where, which will do nothing and be circumvented anyway. If you want to do it after we have restored our infra structure, breathe clean air, have an abundance of clean water, healthcare and a steadily improving standard of living, then be my guest. Alternatively, I suppose Trump together with his base could fund it privately.

As for DACA, those children are innocent and are not guilty by virtue of being brought here. However we do have laws, which were bypassed, and as a lawful society, we cannot tolerate that. So, if we accept the definition of crime as "an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government", then what remains is to mete out a suitable and appropriate punishment.

Would it be fair if when caught or confronted the following options were offered as an option to immediate deportation of the entire family;

Successful completion of secondary education to include either a trade or up to four years of college, followed by mandatory suspension of personal pursuits for a period of two years of full time public service in a program similar to either the Peace Corps or the Vista Corps. Successful completion would be deemed as having paid their debt to society and in as much as they and their families have remained in compliance with immigration policies, be given the right to remain, legally, in this country.

Non successful completion would require deportation for the entire family, any and all financial and material gain while here would be forfeited to a non for profit government immigration fund. That would mitigate the principle complaints of opportunity and fairness.

Gene J (287)
Thursday January 25, 2018, 8:08 am
In addition to the facts below - they are far less likely to have criminal records of any kind (getting arrested is getting deported), most are employed or in school. These are good kids, who did nothing wrong, some were actually born here but can be deported with a parent. This "crisis" is completely manufactured by Trump's unilateral (and against the advice of virtually everyone but his racist base) ended the program. These are the kind of people liberals support, if they truly are. BOTH of my senators, one of whom replaced Al Franken and I expect to lose to a Republican this fall because our idiot governor appointed the wrong person, voted for this deal. I keep hearing there is a larger strategy at play, but that involves trusting McConnell something NO PERSON ON EARTH should feel safe doing. Least of all professional politicians who already know full well what kind of person he is. What kind of party the republicans are.

About 788,000 have had their requests for DACA status accepted, according to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

In order to apply for DACA, immigrants had to be younger than 31 on June 15, 2012.

They must have come to the U.S. before turning 16. They must have lived in the U.S. since June 15, 2007.

In a Center for American Progress survey of roughly 3,000 DACA recipients, nine-tenths of respondents said they had jobs.

Their average hourly wage was $17.46 an hour, up from $10.29 before receiving DACA.

About 72 percent of respondents were in higher education.

After getting DACA, nearly 80 percent of respondents said they got driver's licenses. About half became organ donors.

A Morning Consult poll from April found that 56 percent of registered voters said Dreamers, another name for people who came to the U.S. as kids, "should be allowed to stay and become citizens if they meet certain requirements."

The Center for American Progress estimated that the U.S. would lose about $460 billion in GDP over the next 10 years without DACA.

About 700,000 people could lose their jobs.

More than 1,800 governors, attorneys general, mayors, state representatives, judges, police chiefs and other leaders signed onto a letter supporting Dreamers and DACA recipients.

Patrice Z (16)
Thursday January 25, 2018, 9:22 am
Thanks for all the great information in the comments!

Winn Adams (179)
Thursday January 25, 2018, 11:47 am
:-( So disappointed in the Democrats . . . . . .

Kathy B (106)
Thursday January 25, 2018, 12:19 pm
I suspect that a clean Dreamers act may be relatively simple to get thru the Senate. Getting it thru the House on the other hand may be nearly impossible.

TomCat S (125)
Thursday January 25, 2018, 1:05 pm
Thanks stars and very tired hugs for all

Dianna M (16)
Thursday January 25, 2018, 3:00 pm
After watching The Last Word With Lawrence O'Donnell the day after the shutdown ended, I came to the conclusion that my rant of two days ago was unjustified. As Mr. O'Donnell and his guests all agreed on, there was nothing to be gained by continuing the shutdown.

Lawrence pointed out what happened right after the vote that shut down the government: Claire McCaskill IMMEDIATELY stepped up and proposed legislation to fund military pay, which, as Mr. O’Donnell explained, she probably did with Chuck Shumer’s knowledge. And then he showed the video: Claire McClaskill making her proposal, and Mitch McConnell . . . objecting. “I’m going to object for now, we can talk about this tomorrow,” is what he said, to the best of my recollection. And as Lawrence pointed out—there was NO discussion the next day.

Mitch McConnell lied—which, I’m sure, comes as a surprise to us all. (STILL no sarcasm font, dang it.)

Janet B (0)
Thursday January 25, 2018, 3:08 pm

Janis K (129)
Thursday January 25, 2018, 4:57 pm
We did get CHIP, so it was a win for them. We'll see what happens Feb 8.

TomCat S (125)
Friday January 26, 2018, 1:35 pm
TYVM. Dianne this article came to the same conclusion.

Sheila D (28)
Friday January 26, 2018, 3:31 pm
Unfortunately, the rabid Right lies, has always lied, and now has a habitual, sociopathic liar in charge. We can only hope they will keep their word. Great comments. Thanks, Gene for the information.
Thank you for the post, TomCat.

Dianna M (16)
Friday January 26, 2018, 5:20 pm
TomCat Yeah, I just kinda thought it was important to say that, yeah, I get it now.

Janet B (0)
Friday January 26, 2018, 7:43 pm
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