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Iran's Ahmadinejad: Sept. 11 Attacks a 'Big Lie'

World  (tags: world, corruption, terrorism )

- 3269 days ago -
TEHRAN, Iran - Iran's hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Saturday called the official version of the Sept. 11 attacks a "big lie" used by the U.S. as an excuse for the war on terror, state media reported.


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Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 3:25 pm
Ahmadinejad's comments, made during an address to Intelligence Ministry staff, come amid escalating tensions between the West and Tehran over its disputed nuclear program. They show that Iran has no intention of toning itself down even with tighter sanctions looming because of its refusal to halt uranium enrichment.

"September 11 was a big lie and a pretext for the war on terror and a prelude to invading Afghanistan," Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying by state TV. He called the attacks a "complicated intelligence scenario and act."

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 3:25 pm
The Iranian president has questioned the official U.S. version of the Sept. 11 attacks before, but this is the first time he ventured to label it a "big lie."

In 2007, New York officials rejected Ahmadinejad's request to visit the World Trade Center site while he was in the city for a U.N. meeting. The president also sparked an uproar when he said during a lecture in New York that the causes and conditions that led to the attacks, as well as who orchestrated them, still need to be examined.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 3:26 pm
At the time, he also told Iranian state TV the attacks were "a result of mismanaging and inhumane managing of the world by the U.S," and that Washington was using Sept. 11 as an excuse to attack others.

He has also questioned the Sept. 11 death toll of around 3,000, claiming the Americans never published the victims' names.

On the 2007 anniversary of the attacks, the names of 2,750 victims killed in New York were read aloud at a memorial ceremony.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 3:29 pm
Notice how tuff leaders of the world are talking? I just hope that we will be around our loved one when the big guns talk louder. God Bless us all!

. (0)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 3:45 pm
Yes, the President of Iran is indeed an expert on 'big lies'.

Stan B (123)
Saturday March 6, 2010, 7:33 pm
He's also the creep who said the holocaust was a " big lie. " I wouldn't give this brute the time of day.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 1:38 am
We should make a list of creeps we have in our world today.

Past Member (0)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 3:22 am
This is something like running away from truth.

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 4:06 am












Abdessalam Diab (145)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 4:13 am

Megan V (28)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 7:46 am
I was just about to add this! You beat me to it!! Anyway, I was only 5 when 9/11 occured, so I don't think I'm qualified to give my opinion on what really happened.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 8:52 am
Lindsey: Yes, the President of Iran is indeed an expert on 'big lies'

Have you every known of any President who has not lied?

. (0)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 8:54 am
Nope. Though some are more extravagant about it than others.

Sunday March 7, 2010, 10:51 am
I think the whole incident needs to be reviewed in public and let the chips fall where they may.There are to many inconsistancies in the official story.The huge ins policy taken out of the towers only days before and the owner himself i heard say"pull it"parlay for pull the switch in demolition how did bldg 7 accross the streen come down like a demo job?We know what was in those blg bldgs. I just feel sorry for the ppl who died in this act.The Janitor who saved so many ppl worked 25 years thee tells a who defferent story and has been on tsalking tours for a long time.I SAY WE HAVE A NEW IMPARTIAL HEARING ON THE TOWERS BEFORE EVERYONE IS GONE AND THE PENTAGON THAT WAS SUPPOSEDLY HIT BUT NO PLANE FOUND AND A SMALL HOLE THE REMAINS WERE RUSHED OFF TO CHINA FOR RECYCLE.I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED I JUST SAY THERE ARE A TON OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS AND I AM WELL READ ON THE SUBJECT LIKE WHY WAS THE VICE PRES 40 STORIES DOWN UNDER THE WHITEHOUSE WITH HIS WIFE WHEN THIS HAPPENED?THATS FACT?MAYBE HE WAS DOING MANUVERS AS WE KNOW THERE WAS A STAND DOWN ORDER GIVEN DURING A TEST I WIL NEVER KNOW I WAS NOT THERE AND I AM SURE IF ANY FUNY BUSINESS WAS UP IT WILL NOT EVER COME OUT

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 12:31 pm
3000 jews stayed at away on that day!

. (0)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 1:07 pm
"3000 Jews stayed at away on that day!"

Prove that, Yvonne.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 1:23 pm
I dont feel like it Lindsey!

. (0)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 1:30 pm
Then we have no reason to believe it, Yvonne. And will just take it as your personal opinion, only.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 1:42 pm
oh yes for sure, im not a politician im better than that, i read the news and that is what i know. you may be one, and you know it all it seems.... i love to be light on stuff like this... but i know 3000 jews were instructed to stay at home.

. (0)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 1:52 pm
Odd, then, Yvonne how over 100 Israeli nationals alone were killed in the Tower collapses. Not including, of course, non-Israeli Jews who also died that day.

"The 4,000 figure apparently came from an article entitled “Hundreds of Israelis missing in WTC attack” which appeared in the September 12th internet edition of the Jerusalem Post. It stated, “The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attacks.”

Unknown conspiracy theorists apparently seized upon the 4,000 figure, transforming it into the false claim that 4,000 Jews did not report for work at the World Trade Center on September 11.

The tragic truth is that some 10-to 15-percent of the 2,071 victims of the World Trade Center attacks were Jewish — not surprising, given that the population of New York City is approximately 12-percent Jewish. According to information gathered by the New York Times and the Medical Examiner’s Office records, and reported by Jewish Week, “There were at least 400 victims either confirmed or strongly believed to be Jewish.”

Their stories are heartbreaking. Some, like Marina Romanova Gertsberg, an immigrant from Ukraine, had begun working at the World Trade Center just days before the attacks; others, like 25-year-old Monica Goldstein, were about to marry their sweethearts. Still others, like 36-year-old Eric Sand, had recently become parents. At least two Jewish fathers perished along with their sons. One victim, Arlene Eva Fried, was the daughter of Holocaust survivors.

In an effort to repudiate the myth of Jews staying home on 9/11, the State Department has listed the biographies of 76 of the Jewish victims of the World Trade Center attacks. Among them is Joshua Birnbaum, a 24-year old assistant bond trader at Cantor Fitzgerald. “Josh’s smile always managed to light up the faces of those with whom he surrounded himself. He had a special charm,” recalls Birnbaum’s best friend, Leehe Matalon.

Twenty-seven-year-old Shari Anne Kandell, a Cantor Fitzgerald employee, was a theater buff who is remembered by her family and friends for her selflessness.

Aaron Jacobs, a vice president at Cantor Fitzgerald, had backpacked through Europe and taught job skills to welfare recipients; at the time of his death, he was planning to marry Jeannine McAteer.

Andrew Kates, age 37, was a marathoner who loved spending time with his wife, Emily Terry, and his three children: Hannah, 5, Lucy, 3, and Henry, 1 — little ones who loved climbing into bed with their parents on Saturday mornings.

Karen Klitzman, 38, had, according to her twin sister Donna, taught English in Macao and China before going to work for Cantor Fitzgerald. Alan Lederman, 43, once climbed Mount Whitney. He died while trying to help two frightened women to escape the south tower.

Nancy Morgenstern, 32, was an Orthodox Jew who brought kosher food along on cycling trips. A colleague described Morgenstern as “one of the most thoughtful, disciplined, funny, crazy, independent women I ever knew.”

Thirty-nine-year-old Michael Rothberg enjoyed skiing, jogging, and boating; he once took part in a bike-a-thon to raise money for a friend who had cancer. Ronald Ruben, a vice president at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, spent his first holiday bonus at a toy store, later delivering the toys to hospitalized children.

Attorney Andrew Zucker, who helped others escape the 78th floor of the south tower, left behind a pregnant wife. Lawrence Polatsch was a colorful character whose friends recall that he crashed the wedding of Catherine Zeta-Jones and Michael Douglas. He was planning his own wedding at the time of his death....."


Stan B (123)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 2:01 pm
Lindsey saved me the trouble of debunking the unsubstantiated rubbish you posted about 3000 Jews not going to work on 9/11 Yvonne. It's the kind of evil anti-semitic slur we frequently see posted on care 2 by the neo-Nazi brigade. Do yourself a favour and check your facts before you write this kind of fallacious nonsense in future.

. (0)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 2:06 pm
And, although I am a proponent of the belief that one may be anti-Israel without necessarily being anti-Jewish, anyone who can credit that thousands of Jewish people received prior warning of 9/11 is truly anti-Jewish in the worst sort of way. To believe that thousands of Jewish people could receive such warnings and not one had the decency to contact authorities. Not one had the decency to warn their fellow, non-Jewish employees. Not one had the decency to question what was happening and do something about it. And, afterwards, not one had the decency of conscience to speak out. Not one.

That is indeed anti-Semitism at its finest. And it is a charge I rarely make against anyone. But those who accept this ridiculous theory do indeed deserve the appellation.

. (0)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 2:41 pm
I believe we may now lay to rest any credibility the Iranian President might be considered to have concerning the events of 9/11:

In 2008, seven years after the attacks, Ahmadinejad had this to say about 9/11:

""A building collapsed and they said 3,000 people had been killed but never published their names," he said in a speech in the holy city of Qom."

Of course, not only were the names published, but multiple ceremonies were held over the years where the names were read aloud, one by one.

And yet this strange creature actually is promoting the idea that the names of the dead were never published?

What possible reason could anyone have to trust this gentleman's word on anything whatsoever to do with 9/11 after a stupidity such as that?

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Sunday March 7, 2010, 11:27 pm
there are some sick people in the world and we have to bear with it. SICK SICK SICK

Stan B (123)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:07 am
Nothing to do with sick people Yvonne. When you post absolute nonsense and can't substantiate it prepare to be shot down in flames.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:22 am
Definately SICK, I'm already for being shot down in flames, Israel is my neighbour, while you sit cozy in Australia and talk big...

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:49 am
What were the 100 Israelis doing there? If the Mosaad sent a 26 squad of killers to assassinate ONE man in Dubai, The two towers needed at least 100.

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:51 am
At the head of a list of Liars comes of course George W. Bush , Cheney ,Rumsfield and Tony Blair.

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:54 am

Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"

You cannot currently send a star to Yvonne because you have done so within the last week.

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:16 am
Stan B
Your comment has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. You can keep silent if you have nothing to say. Please stick to the subject if you have something to say about it. Thank you.

Stan B (123)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:33 am
What were the 100 Israelis doing there?
Now then Abdessalem put your money where your mouth is and substantiate this claim.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:12 am
"Citizens of 80 countries were missing and presumed dead in the disaster, Bush said in his address to Congress on Thursday night. More than 130 were Israeli citizens and more than 250 were citizens of India, he said."

Wow. What were those 250 citizens of INDIA doing there??????? Sounds awful suspicious, doesn't it?

Well, no - not suspicious at all. They were merely employed by the many companies working out of the World Trade Centers (and perhaps a few were tourists visiting Windows on the World or just visiting the Towers). As were the citizens of the other 79 or so nations who died in the collapse. Including the Israelis.

What an odd question. And one with such a commonsense and simple answer.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:17 am
And, Abdessalam - you appear to be overlooking the fact that those 100+ Israelis DIED in the collapse. They weren't witnesses - they were victims, like the rest.

Exactly what do you think the "World" in "World Trade Centers" means? It stands for the international flavor of the firms headquartered in the Towers.

Some people exhibit such glee when insisting that it was the dreaded Israelis to blame. Such glee. They just can't contain themselves. While overlooking logic. And rationality. And facts.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:27 am
And, Yvonne - the "sickness" is seeing an entire race of people as intrinsically morally corrupt. As inrinsically evil and monstrous. As so lost to decent humanity that a random group of three or four thousand of them would all, without hesitation and without ever breaking ranks, choose to be conspirators in a horrific instance of mass murder. The 'sickness' lies in the ugly minds of those who can conceive of such grotesque lies and promote them so very enthusiastically and with such joy.

Of course, I give those people the benefit of the doubt - that they are merely afflicted with that terminal "sickness" and are not genuinely evil. Though sometimes.....but, no - I must give them the beneft of the doubt. They are indeed "sick". To the core.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:28 am
You are sick too

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:43 am
Stop talking nonesense you dont live around here you have no idea of reality of life that we have to live. Go eat.

Stan B (123)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:51 am
Yvonne and Abdessalem; you are big on rhetoric but very small on facts and, sadly, it's precisely this kind of mindset that makes peace in the Middle East so hard to achieve.
BTW Yvonne, no need to be rude when you lose an argument.

Elizabeth Schauki (13)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:59 am
I've never seen any evidence that the Jewish people or the Israeli people were involved in 9-11 in that way. I think that many people's deeply held suspicion of Israel and sometimes Jewish people in general makes them see things that aren't there sometimes. My Syrian father would have recognized this mindset pretty easily I think since he fought that entrenched hatred and mistrust, even within his own family, through his life. One of the many reasons he left that region to start with. And I'm so glad he and my mother raised me to see every person as an individual. I don't think God intended people to hate each other so badly in fact I am certain of that. I think it's sad that the hatred keeps the conflict alive year after year and nothing will ever change until we start seeing people as they really are. And things need to change because too many people are dying and being hurt because people refuse to see others as real individuals and not just members of some group they hate and fear.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:07 am
Elisabeth, although I agree with you that sometimes the false accusations are due to fear and hatred blinding a person to reality, I also recognize that some people quite deliberately, cooly, and with malice aforethought choose to promote lies because they know a certain percentage of the population can be made to believe them. It's unfortunately a sometimes-effective way of promoting an agenda and propoganda of that type is an old, old trick among those who feel they have so few genuine issues on which to hang their hatred that they must manufacture some.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:42 am
"The guns and the bombs, the rockets and the warships, are all symbols of human failure."

- Lyndon B. Johnson

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:45 am
There's no win or loose here, theres just little kids who talk this way, you cant do a thing about the situation only talk big from far away in your cozy little den.

All I see here a big philosophers.

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:44 am
Stan and Lindsey
Can you please have a look at this site and give your mind a chance to think. Why don't you join the call for an independent investigation in the 9/11 AFFAIR?

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:10 am
True, Yvonne. There is little the average person can do about 'the situation." Except, of course, to speak out against lies when they see them being promulgated. I don't approve of lies. Or liars.

Elizabeth Schauki (13)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:21 am
But that's what this online board is for, to talk about things. That's what we all do here. So it is rather unfair to criticize people for talking when that is what we are all here for. Anyone who doesn't want to talk about world affairs or national affairs or animal welfare or anything else shouldn't be here. And anyone who thinks that people talking about the problems of the world are 'just little kids' should really ask themselves why they are on a talk board to begin with. I always think that talking about things is a very good thing in life because when you're talking you're not fighting. And if God hadn't wanted us to talk he would not have given us the ability or the desire to communicate with others.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:29 am
Unfortunately, Elisabeth, all too often "talk" itself becomes a weapon. Such as the "3,000 or 4,000 Truant Jews". Lies such as that ARE weapons. And, if left unchallenged, can be fairly effective among those who refuse to actually question each aspect of the lie.

I can, without question, accept that Bush and his cronies may have known about 9/11 prior to the attacks and allowed them to happen. After all, FDR knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor prior to its happening - and remained silent so that the attack could push Americans into favoring America's entry into WWII. I haven't seen any credible evidence proving that as yet - but it is not outside the realm of possibility.

But, some allegations being made as fact are so outrageous and so offensive that any decent and sensible human being would repudiate them on the face of it. And are parroted incessantly around the internet by those who either are promoting an agenda or are simply too unintelligent or unwise to question the basic premise of the lie.

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:38 am
If there is a 00.00.00,1% possibility that 9/11 was an internal act by Bush administration, Then an independent investigation is a necessity.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:49 am
There is undoubtedly a remote possibility that 9/11 was caused by little green men from Mars or rogue Democrats wishing to place the blame on a Republican administration. But I really don't think that a remote possibility is something which should cause a specific investigation.

And, of course, I did not say that it was an 'internal act by the Bush administration". But merely that Bush and his administration may have had prior knowledge of it taking place through intelligence reports. Rather like the difference between saying that FDR knew about the Pearl Harbor attack beforehand vs. it having been American warplanes which, disguised as Japanese bombers, actually attacked our fleet at Pearl. And, of course, they were actually Japanese planes.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Monday March 8, 2010, 6:11 am
I'm wondering if Iran is waiting for approvals from members of care2, that would be the day... i though this is only for opinion of what is going on

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 6:22 am
No, I doubt that Iran or anyone else on the world stage gives a tinker's damn about what anyone says on Care2. We are very ordinary people here and if our opinions mattered a great deal regarding major world events I doubt we would have the desire to waste our time here on this forum. We do it, of course, for the fun and interest of the debate, but anyone who has any illusions whatsoever about the impact they will have on anything more than (perhaps) a one-on-one basis is sorely kidding themselves.

Once in a blue moon a petition from this site makes an impact, such as the one for Pup Ratchet; however, animal welfare aside, we aren't going to be changing the course of world events from Care2. And that's fine by me. If even one fence-sitter considers what I have to say and perhaps thinks a little more logically about events, I consider that a conversation well worth having. And if even one lie can be refuted with logic, that also makes a conversation well worth having. Because cumulatively little pieces of the puzzle do help fill in the whole.

Zahra Pilavdzic (274)
Monday March 8, 2010, 9:51 am
How many civilians were killed in 9/11?
How many killed in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Not to mention: How many billions have we spent doing so?

About 290 times as many people have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq than in the ghastly attacks of September 11, 2001. More than 124 times as many people have been killed in these wars and occupations than in all terrorist attacks in the world from 1993-2004, according to data compiled by the US State Department. (Note: After the 2004 report showed terrorism at an all-time high, numerous experts suggested that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were fueling an increase in terrorism, and subsequent State Dept terror tallies have remained classified.)

Rajendra Singh (10)
Monday March 8, 2010, 11:38 am
Any thing is possible in the present time. Verifying such comments is really difficult. Life seems to have no value in the eyes of the people who plat dirty politics

Darlene K (356)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:43 pm
Lindsey wrote;
"And, of course, I did not say that it was an 'internal act by the Bush administration". But merely that Bush and his administration may have had prior knowledge of it taking place through intelligence reports. Rather like the difference between saying that FDR knew about the Pearl Harbor attack beforehand vs. it having been American warplanes which, disguised as Japanese bombers, actually attacked our fleet at Pearl. And, of course, they were actually Japanese planes."


I hold a very similar opinion, as I wrote in my share, two years ago, regarding this issue. You and I, disagree on many things, but you give me HOPE that there are others who have really researched all facets of this issue. I feel 9-11 was very similar to the attack on Pearl Harbor.

As for Iran's Ahmadinejad's "opinion" on this issue, he is correct that our government lied, but he is trying to spin it, like the conspiracy theorists. For me, his statements provided more evidence of how he is not so truthful...., which doesn't help how I perceive his "honesty" with nuclear development. It is time for the U.S. government and ALL its agencies to give the people of its nation, TRUTH, on many issues.

Of course these are just my humble opinions, and I respect those who disagree.

noted and thank you.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:55 pm
And this is what I see, all politicians are using the media and its citizens to make a big story of what they do and get people sick so they can make more money for themselves. Stress them out and label them with sickness

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:12 pm
And I very much agree with you, Dar....shall we both faint in unison? :-)

I see nothing inherently impossible about our government having foreknowledge of the 9/11 attack and deliberately choosing to allow it to take place. I have zero doubt that Bush and his cronies had very practical reasons for wanting to create a military conflict in the Middle East and this definitely afforded them the opportunity.

Unless and until there is actual credible evidence of this, however, it merely remains an interesting theory. And if there is any additional 'truth' to be learned, I rather doubt it will come out anytime soon (like with FDR's little lapse, which took decades to come out).

Monday March 8, 2010, 1:21 pm

Thank you for posting this article.

Your insight with controversial subjects, your ability to see both sides of an issue, your fairness, and your open-mindedness is appreciated by many of us in the Care2 community!

If you get a chance, I hope that you would read the following post that (I feel) presents a more objective viewpoint about the Middle East... please enjoy. (I am confident that it will help you understand some of the more radical opinions that have been posted by people on this thread!)

The Truth Hurts

Tim Redfern (581)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:36 pm
"September 11 was a big lie and a pretext for the war on terror and a prelude to invading Afghanistan," Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying by state TV. He called the attacks a "complicated intelligence scenario and act."
Give that man a cigar,
because he's absolutely right.
More and more Americans are realising this truth as well.

It was 9/11 research which originally got me on the 'net
in late 2002-early 2003. At one point I had over 2,000
pages of material which I'd printed regarding 9/11.

I don't know abut the "3,000 Jews". That's a new one
on me, and I rather doubt it.
However, I DO know that in one of the Towers
was an Israeli state-owned text-messaging company called Odigo.
Around 7:30 AM on 9/11, all Odigo employees were text-messaged by the
company and told not to go to work that day. This is fact, and I'd like to know
the details behind it, because something about it stinks like a load of week-dead fish.

Across the Hudson that morning, in New Jersey, as the Towers burned
before the collapse, 5 Middle-Eastern looking men in their 20's were standing by an unmarked van
alongside the river, dancing and celebrating, and taking pictures of one
another with the burning towers in the background.
A suspicious apartment-dweller called the police and the FBI, who took the men into
custody. It was later determined that they were Mossad agents.
They were held in custody for 40-some days before they were quietly
returned to Israel.

I have read (unsubstantiated stories) that no Jews or Israeli
citizens died on the morning of 9/11, but I've only seen that
one a few times, and do not believe it to be it would
matter anyway. 2,750 people, 3,000 people.......dead is dead, and these
people were murdered in cold blood by the federal government of
the United States. Those of us left alive were dragged into the last decade.
Your Tax Dollars At Work.

Thank you, Yvonne.


Monday March 8, 2010, 2:14 pm

Again, I enjoy reading your posts.

This is another article that will help people understand some of the more radical comments that were posted on this thread... Please enjoy!

The Truth Really Hurts

Monday March 8, 2010, 2:23 pm

Thanks for the note!

As always, I do enjoy hearing from you. (Reading your comments and notes is like a breath of fresh air in the chaos of this world!)

I wanted to share this link with you from another part of the world that shows why some of the people believe the things they do. Yes, as always, you are correct, we should be concerned!

(You and I know why Dajjal laughs at the leaders who have been placed in power by the so called enlightened believers!)

The Truth Really Does Hurt!


. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:35 pm
Thanks for the kind words, Sentinels. I already checked out your first link - an interesting letter. And I very much agree with the writer that some publications (and most assuredly the Guardian) do indeed have a strong, consistent anti-Israel slant, both in terms of actual coverage and in terms of the writers and columnists most often used (and, without doubt, that can occur with the media on any 'side' of an issue as there are some publications with an unfairly pro-Israeli slant). Balance in coverage in the media - honest balance - is what is needed. And while Israel should not be whitewashed (which would be hardly fair since her hands, without question, have never been entirely clean) neither should she be unreasonably maligned. In the same way, of course, the Palestinian point of view should be presented honestly. And opinion presented as merely that - opinion (and not fact.) And with the provenance of the writing to always be taken into account when judging its accuracy and reliability (PressTV, anyone?) One reason why I try, when posting a news item on the Middle East, to use Al Jazeera wherever possible rather than an "Israeli" publication. Because, of course, no one could accuse Al Jazeera of having a pro-Israeli slant.

And I especially dislike the way in which terminology is mis-used. Whether it is "apartheid" or "genocide" or "fascist" - or perhaps other terms - it is deceptive in the extreme to utilize those terms in ways that their actual definitions do not intend. Using them only, of course, for the shock value.

I have always felt that when anyone uses imprecise terminology, biased sources, and improper methods of debate in order to present and defend their ideas - those ideas must not be worth much to begin with. Because any ideas and arguments which have merit will be able to stand on their own without being falsely propped up.

End of mini-tirade! :-)

Monday March 8, 2010, 2:42 pm

It looks as if Dajjaal and the followers of Dajjal have been very busy!

Wow... the 'Truth' really does sting!

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:31 pm
Salaam Alaikum Care2 friends...Personally, I am a big fan of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He has been demonized just like all Muslims and Islam and it is getting very old. The story of 911...he is right at what he has said. It was indeed a conspiracy of and by the US. It is clear. Enough has been shown and said I believe, to make a clear determination on that thing. And, who cares if Iran has nuclear power? Not me. Israel has it, Pakistan has it, the USA has it...on and goes. If one cannot have it then no one should have it. Most of this words here are profitless chit chat sorry to say...probably even what I am saying the way the Dajaal has not come to the world yet. I believe it is coming soon however. The Bible refers to this person as the AntiChrist..the world is in a big mess however..I wish the President of Iran many Salaams and Peace and Blessings upon his country. I have many good friends in Iran. Let us be among the peaceful. It's mostly not happening and it is mostly because of rude people. ani

Edward H (45)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:43 pm
I have very good information from my BoB friends that 9/11 was and is a complete hoax. The buildings still exist exactly where they have always existed but cannot be seen due to the invisible shield which functions by distorting the time/space continuum. The people in the buildings are breathing fumes [thus preventing them from leaving] fabricated by the big oil industries who financed the whole affair and paid the Bush administration to look the other way and invade Afghanistan and Iraq to not only control the oil of Iraq, but to also take over the drug trade by controlling the poppy of Afghanistan. The Israelis assisted in all of this by threatening to detonate a small nuclear device shoved up the butts of each family member of those that hijacked the planes. Unless each of them died and the small nuclear detonating transmitters shoved up their butts destroyed, the family members would have been killed. Note: The undetonated nuclear devices were pooped out as they dissolved in the colon. The British aided in all of this by using their holographic technology to "show" us what we believe to have transpired that day as portrayed by the media which is owned by the so called Holocaust victims who actually found the fountain of youth and haven't aged a day since WWII. The bits and pieces of remains is actually bacon bits so that those that can't touch pork, who clearly are the only ones capable of exposing the truth, won't go near them. FYI: BoB is the Bureau of Bullpoopery...but now they will have to kill you as you know the truth.

To those victims and family members of the victims of the Holocaust and 9/11, please view this as a way to show how stupid the idiotic morons are that suckle on the drainage pipe of male camels and deny that the Holocaust and 9/11 occurred. It is one thing for them to voice an educated opinion, it is another to choose to be so stupid.

Tim Redfern (581)
Monday March 8, 2010, 6:50 pm
agree with me (or not) but it's not necessarily a bad thing that The Guardian
of London has an anti-Israeli stance.
Heaven knows there are enough media outlets with a pro-Israeli stance.
As long as we have both sides available, that's a good
thing, n'est-ce-pas?

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 6:56 pm
Actually, Tim, I don't believe a general news organization should be 'pro' or 'anti' anything. They should be impartial except when dealing solely with editorials. The job of the media should be to report the news - not to promote or denigrate the newsmakers.

Tim Redfern (581)
Monday March 8, 2010, 7:03 pm
I agree with you, Lindsey,
but in a perfect know.

We've had "yellow journalism" for a long time now,
since the 19th century and William Randolph Hearst.
So, as long as the media is going to be biased,
at the very least, we get both sides.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Monday March 8, 2010, 11:08 pm
As Dar beautifully said we should agree to disagree. We need to respect the views of everyone but not attack anyone. Each one of us is different in our own ways. Making a statement for others doings is not going to get us anywhere. When we die we are responsible for our doing and have to answer God ourselves there will be no one to defend us, so why defend the politicians who dont even consider us.

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 2:43 am
Thank You! Your star has been sent to Pastor Tim.
Thank you Pastor Tim.

This is an other true story
Abdulla Afifi is a young Egyptian who was granted a scholarship to pursue his studies for a Master degree in computer science by one of the American universities. He arrived in New York City shortly before 9/11 and stayed in a small hotel not far away from the twin towers. The two towers collapsed when he was out of the hotel. When he returned later to the hotel he was arrested and accused of sharing of that terrorist attack ! !based on a story by a bill boy that he keeps a device in his room that directs the planes.His father, a former diplomat with the Embassy of Egypt hired a lawyer to follow the case. Abdulla stayed in custody for few weeks . His father suddenly received a telephone call from the lawyer telling him that his son is now free. What happened ? the father asked. The lawyer answered that the bill boy told the police that the device found in Abdulla's room has been given to the bill boy by some one who looks like Middle East people and he (the bill boy)put it in Abdulla's room by mistake. The bill boy was punished ( several weeks community service during the weekends). Few months ago an American court decided that Abdulla deserves $ 250.000,00 as compensation. Good for him. The surprise is the device itself : NO investigation about it. Where did it come from? to whom does it belong? NO BODY ASKED ! !

. (0)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 2:50 am
I'm afraid that without links to reputable news sources for that story about "Abdulla Afifi", we can hardly evaluate its credibility. Such links would be very much appreciated, Abdessalam. Because I don't seem to be able to find anything on the internet about that particular incident, which means nothing of course, since I may well not be looking in the right place or using the right search terms.

So perhaps you will provide us with a link to a news item relating Mr. Afifi's story.

Stan B (123)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 2:56 am
1 SENTINEL. I agree with everything you wrote about Lindsey. She is a breath of fresh air on Care 2 with her ability to debunk all the bomb throwers and conspiracy nuts without losing her cool or sense of humour. Oh for more Lindseys on Care 2 and less loonies and bigots.
2 EDWARD. Congratulations on the wittiest post I've read on any thread for a long, long time. Just goes to show that bigotry and unsubstantiated accusations are no match for intelligence and common sense.
3 PASTOR TIM. You wrote "Across the Hudson that morning, in New Jersey, as the Towers burned
before the collapse, 5 Middle-Eastern looking men in their 20's were standing by an unmarked van
alongside the river, dancing and celebrating, and taking pictures of one
another with the burning towers in the background.
A suspicious apartment-dweller called the police and the FBI, who took the men into
custody. It was later determined that they were Mossad agents.
They were held in custody for 40-some days before they were quietly
returned to Israel."
Please check out
I think its yet another case of you swallowing false propaganda.
4 YVONNE. I agree totally with your last post. We should be able to disagree without attacking each other.

. (0)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 3:02 am
Thank you, Stan.

Oh, heavens - I didn't see the part about the Dancing Israelis. That silly canard. I've never quite understood the believability of that supposed incident. After all, one may accuse Israel of many things - but gross stupidity and utter incompetence among its Intelligence services is hardly a charge that most would level against that nation. And the thought that Israeli Intelligence would send such untrained idiots in such an overwhelmingly important situation is quite ludicrous. Just another myth, I'm afraid.

Tim Redfern (581)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 7:33 am
Gross stupidity and utter incompetence
among men in their 20's I could believe,
Mossad agents or not.
Yes, Stan, I thank you, too.
I will check out your link from Snopes.
If they say it's a hoax, then I will admit,
here in this thread, that I've been hoaxed.
There were alot of crap-stories floating around
in the 18 months or so after 9/11, and I'm only just
discovering that I believed too many of them.
This is a good thing that I'm learning what I'm learning.

Lindsey, purely for my own curiousity,
you wouldn't be a fan of John Hagee, would you?
I'm honestly not trying to start an argument with
you, I'm only trying to understand you.
I promise, regardless of your answer, yes or no, I'll only
acknowledge your response.
Peace be with you, Lindsey.

Tim Redfern (581)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 7:41 am
Okay, Stan,
I've read the link from Snopes,
and it reinforces my belief that Jewish folks and Israeli
citizens died that day.
I didn't see anything there about the (so-called) "Dancing
Israelis on the Hudson", so until I see anything which proves
or dis-proves that story, I will hold my peace about it, and not
mention it again.
Thanks for the link,
and Peace be with you too, Stan.

. (0)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 8:01 am
I don't know who John Hagee is, Tim.

Tim Redfern (581)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 8:08 am
Believe me when I tell you, Lindsey,
you don't WANT to know!, and I'll leave
it at that.

Sue L (26)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 10:13 am
I'm wondering what the point is of feeding the conspiracy theory - it seems a vehicle to create more conflict in the world and it exploits the memory of the many people who were murdered on that day. Ahmadinejad is an idiot and a danger not only to his own people, but the rest of the world.

Tim Redfern (581)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 10:35 am
Sue L.,
if I'm reading you correctly,
you believe the "9/11 was an inside job" people
like myself are the "conspiracy theorists".
We are not.
We have empirical evidence from architects, building engineers, physicists,
demolitions experts, on and on, which prove that two planes and small, contained,
limited fires could not have caused the Towers to collapse.
We also have empirical evidence proving that the execution of 9/11 required access
to the highest levels of the Federal Government of the United States, up to and
including the Office of the President.
In my personal opinion, it is the peole who believe the "official story", that
Osama bin Forgotten and his 19 merry band of cavemen were capable of
pulling off the most complex and sophisticated terrorist attack in history that
are the true "conspiracy theorists". Belief in the "official version" just doesn't hold water.

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Wednesday March 10, 2010, 4:19 am
Read about the holocaust the American administration committed on 9/11

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday March 10, 2010, 7:43 am
Hi Yvonne. Iran's regime has never invaded anyone. It is understandable that they would want weapons to deter an Israeli attack or U.S.-led attack or invasion, though.

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday March 10, 2010, 7:46 am
My point is that it is the USA, Israel and their allies that canprevent war by pressuring THEIR OWN governments. Iran's best hope is to deter attack or invasion by maximising Iranian military strength and Iran's alliances and friendships with other countries, such as most countries in the Non-Aligned Movement (an organisation of Third World nations that includes 2/3 of the world's population).

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday March 10, 2010, 7:49 am
Oops, I meant to write:

My point is that it is the people of the USA, Israel and their allies that can prevent war by pressuring THEIR OWN governments to not attack or invade Iran.

And the way that Iran can prevent war is to deter any Israeli attack or U.S.-led attack or invasion, by maximising Iranian military strength and Iran's alliances and friendships with other countries, such as most countries in the Non-Aligned Movement (an organisation of Third World nations that includes 2/3 of the world's population).

. (0)
Wednesday March 10, 2010, 7:55 am
Or, perhaps since the U.S. and Israel have never attacked Iran in the past, Iran will want to use that military build-up to deter Iraq, since Iraq was, of course, the nation which invaded Iran in the 1980's in an attempt to gain ownership of its oilfields, as that nation also did with Quwait.

Vikas S (261)
Wednesday March 10, 2010, 8:47 am

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday March 11, 2010, 4:10 am
The Five Dancing Israelis
Arrested On 9-11

As the world watched in disbelief and asked the question...

...Mossad operatives were seen dancing with joy.

A Mossad surveillance team made quite a public spectacle of themselves on 9-11.
The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards. (1)

Police received several calls from angry New Jersey residents claiming "middle-eastern" men with a white van were videotaping the disaster with shouts of joy and mockery. (2)

"They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me" said a witness. (3)
[T]hey were seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. (4)

Witnesses saw them jumping for joy in Liberty State Park after the initial impact (5). Later on, other witnesses saw them celebrating on a roof in Weehawken, and still more witnesses later saw them celebrating with high fives in a Jersey City parking lot. (6)
"It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park." (7)

One anonymous phone call to the authorities actually led them to close down all of New York's bridges and tunnels. The mystery caller told the 9-1-1 dispatcher that a group of Palestinians were mixing a bomb inside of a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel. Here's the transcript from NBC News:
Dispatcher: Jersey City police.
Caller: Yes, we have a white van, 2 or 3 guys in there, they look like Palestinians and going around a building.
Caller: There's a minivan heading toward the Holland tunnel, I see the guy by Newark Airport mixing some junk and he has those sheikh uniform.
Dispatcher: He has what?
Caller: He's dressed like an Arab. (8)

(*Writer's note: Why would this mystery caller specifically say that these "Arabs" were Palestinians? How would he know that? Palestinians usually dress in western style clothes, not "sheikh uniforms")

Based on that phone call, police then issued a "Be-on-the-Lookout" alert for a white mini-van heading for the city's bridges and tunnels from New Jersey.
White, 2000 Chevrolet van with 'Urban Moving Systems' sign on back seen at Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ, at the time of first impact of jetliner into World Trade Center Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion. FBI Newark Field Office requests that, if the van is located, hold for prints and detain individuals. (9)
When a van fitting that exact description was stopped just before crossing into New York, the suspicious "middle-easterners" were apprehended. Imagine the surprise of the police officers when these terror suspects turned out to be Israelis!

According to ABC’s 20/20, when the van belonging to the cheering Israelis was stopped by the police, the driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers:
"We are Israelis. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are your problem." (10)

Why did he feel Palestinians were a problem for the NYPD?

The police and FBI field agents became very suspicious when they found maps of the city with certain places highlighted, box cutters (the same items that the hijackers supposedly used), $4700 cash stuffed in a sock, and foreign passports. Police also told the Bergen Record that bomb sniffing dogs were brought to the van and that they reacted as if they had smelled explosives. (11)
The FBI seized and developed their photos, one of which shows Sivan Kurzberg flicking a cigarette lighter in front of the smouldering ruins in an apparently celebratory gesture. (12)

Click for full size

The Jerusalem Post later reported that a white van with a bomb was stopped as it approached the George Washington Bridge, but the ethnicity of the suspects was not revealed. Here's what the Jerusalem Post reported on September 12, 2001:

American security services overnight stopped a car bomb on the George Washington Bridge. The van, packed with explosives, was stopped on an approach ramp to the bridge. Authorities suspect the terrorists intended to blow up the main crossing between New Jersey and New York, Army Radio reported. (13)
"...two suspects are in FBI custody after a truckload of explosives was discovered around the George Washington Bridge ... The FBI ... says enough explosives were in the truck to do great damage to the George Washington Bridge."

WMV video download (545kB)

It was reported the van contained tonnes of explosives (14).

What's really intriguing is that ABC's 20/20 (15), the New York Post (16), and the New Jersey Bergen Record (17) all clearly and unambiguously reported that a white van with Israelis was intercepted on a ramp near Route 3, which leads directly to the Lincoln Tunnel.

But the Jerusalem Post, Israeli National News (Arutz Sheva) (18), and Yediot America, (19) all reported, just as clearly and unambiguously, that a white van with Israelis was stopped on a ramp leading to the George Washington Bridge, which is several miles north of the Lincoln Tunnel.

It appears as if there may actually have been two white vans involved, one stopped on each crossing. This would not only explain the conflicting reports as to the actual location of the arrests, but would also explain how so many credible eye-witnesses all saw celebrating "middle-easterners" in a white van in so many different locations. It also explains why the New York Post and Steve Gordon (lawyer for the 5 Israelis) originally described how three Israelis were arrested but later increased the total to five.

Perhaps one van was meant to drop off a bomb while the other was meant to pick up the first set of drivers while re-crossing back into New Jersey? If a van was to be used as a parked time-bomb on the GW Bridge, then certainly the drivers would need to have a "get-away van" to pick them up and escape. And notice how the van (or vans) stayed away from the third major crossing -the Holland Tunnel- which was where the police had originally been directed to by that anti-Palestinian 9-1-1 "mystery caller". A classic misdirection play.

From there, the story gets becomes even more suspicious. The Israelis worked for a Weehawken moving company known as Urban Moving Systems. An American employee of Urban Moving Systems told the The Record of New Jersey that a majority of his co-workers were Israelis and they were joking about the attacks.
The employee, who declined to give his name said: "I was in tears. These guys were joking and that bothered me." These guys were like, "Now America knows what we go through." (20)

A few days after the attacks, Urban Moving System's Israeli owner, Dominick Suter, dropped his business and fled the country for Israel. He was in such a hurry to flee America that some of Urban Moving System's customers were left with their furniture stranded in storage facilities (21).
Suter's departure was abrupt, leaving behind coffee cups, sandwiches, cell phones and computers strewn on office tables and thousands of dollars of goods in storage. Suter was later placed on the same FBI suspect list as 9/11 lead hijacker Mohammed Atta and other hijackers and suspected al-Qaeda sympathizers, suggesting that U.S. authorities felt Suter may have known something about the attacks. (22)

The Jewish weekly The Forward reported that the FBI finally concluded that at least two of the detained Israelis were agents working for the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, and that Urban Moving Systems, the ostensible employer of the five Israelis, was a front operation. This was confirmed by two former CIA officers, and they noted that movers' vans are a common intelligence cover. (23). The Israelis were held in custody for 71 days before being quietly released. (24)
"There was no question but that [the order to close down the investigation] came from the White House. It was immediately assumed at CIA headquarters that this basically was going to be a cover-up so that the Israelis would not be implicated in any way in 9/11." (25)
Several of the detainees discussed their experience in America on an Israeli talk show after their return home. Said one of the men, denying that they were laughing or happy on the morning of Sept. 11, "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." (26)

wmv video download
How did they know there would be an event to document on 9/11?

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots of the dancing Israeli Mossad agents - here's the most logical scenario:
1. The Israeli "movers" cheered the 9-11 attacks to celebrate the successful accomplishment of the greatest spy operation ever pulled off in history.

2. One of them, or an accomplice, then calls a 9-1-1 police dispatcher to report Palestinian bomb-makers in a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel.

3. Having thus pre-framed the Palestinians with this phone call, the Israeli bombers then head for the George Washington Bridge instead, where they will drop off their time-bomb van and escape with Urban Moving accomplices.

4. But the police react very wisely and proactively by closing off ALL bridges and tunnels instead of just the Holland Tunnel. This move inadvertently foils the Israelis' misdirection play and leads to their own capture and 40 day torture.

5. To cover up this story, the U.S. Justice Department rounds up over 1000 Arabs for minor immigration violations and places them in New York area jails. The Israelis therefore become less conspicuous as the government and media can now claim that the Israelis were just immigration violators caught in the same dragnet as many other Arabs.

6. After several months, FBI and Justice Department "higher-ups" are able to gradually push aside the local FBI agents and free the Israelis quietly.

Osama bin Laden was immediately blamed for the 9/11 attacks even though he had no previous record of doing anything on this scale. Immediately after the Flight 11 hit World Trade Center 1
CIA Director George Tenet said "You know, this has bin Laden's fingerprints all over it." (27)

The compliant mainstream media completely ignored the Israeli connection. Immediately following the 9-11 attacks the media was filled with stories linking the attacks to bin Laden. TV talking-heads, "experts", and scribblers of every stripe spoon-fed a gullible American public a steady diet of the most outrageous propaganda imaginable.

We were told that the reason bin Laden attacked the USA was because he hates our "freedom" and "democracy". The Muslims were "medieval" and they wanted to destroy us because they envied our wealth, were still bitter about the Crusades, and were offended by Britney Spears shaking her tits and ass all over the place!

But bin Laden strongly denied any role in the attacks and suggested that Zionists orchestrated the
9-11 attacks. The BBC published bin Laden's statement of denial in which he said:
"I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States." (28)

You never heard that quote on your nightly newscast did you?
[A] number of intelligence officials have raised questions about Osama bin Laden's capabilities. "This guy sits in a cave in Afghanistan and he's running this operation?" one C.I.A. official asked. "It's so huge. He couldn't have done it alone." A senior military officer told me that because of the visas and other documentation needed to infiltrate team members into the United States a major foreign intelligence service might also have been involved. (29)

Bin Laden is not named as the perpetrator of 9/11 by the FBI:

When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page (30), [Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI] said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.” (31)
"So we've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden [sic] was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming" - Dick Cheney. (32)

To date, the only shred of “evidence” to be uncovered against bin Laden is a barely audible fuzzy amateur video that the Pentagon just happened to find "lying around" in Afghanistan. How very convenient, and how very fake. (33)

There is no evidence, be it hard or circumstantial, to link the Al Qaeda "terrorist network" to these acts of terror, but there is a mountain of evidence, both hard and circumstantial, which suggests that Zionists have been very busy framing Arabs for terror plots against America.
"I think there is very compelling evidence that at least some of the terrorists were assisted not just in financing -- although that was part of it -- by a sovereign foreign government ... It will become public at some point when it's turned over to the archives, but that's 20 or 30 years from now" - Senator Bob Graham. (34)

If the sovereign foreign government mentioned by Senator Graham was an enemy of the United States the "compelling evidence" would not be kept secret for 20+ years.

One final point; at 09:40 on 9-11 it was reported that the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine claimed responsibility for the attacks (35). This claim was immediately denied by the DFLP leader Qais abu Leila who said it had always opposed "terror attacks on civilian targets, especially outside the occupied territories." (36)

Why would a Palestinian organisation comprising of less than 500 people (37) make the suicidal move of immediately claiming responsibility for the attacks?
Sharon and the other Israeli leaders aspire to fulfil what the goals of the political Zionist movement have been since its origin a century ago: to turn all of historic Palestine into an exclusively Jewish state. A central tenet of the Zionist ideology is expressed in the racist slogan, "A land without people for a people without a land." (38)

The implication of Palestinians in the 9/11 attacks would have handed Zionists a golden opportunity to achieve the above because all Palestinians would have been labelled terrorists.
"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."

US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring.

Mossad Logo
"By way of deception, thou shalt do war"
Motto of the Mossad

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday March 11, 2010, 4:12 am

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Thursday March 11, 2010, 4:32 am

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday March 11, 2010, 4:34 am
Challenging thinking on Iran

Isaac Luria, J Street
to me

date Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 6:07 PM
subject Challenging thinking on Iran

Abdessalam --

What to do about Iran's nuclear program and threats to Israel, U.S. interests, and stability in the Middle East is one of the seminal challenges of our time.

Should the United States continue its diplomatic outreach? What about sanctions? Can we get the international community on board? What is Iran actually thinking and doing with regards to its nuclear program? How can the U.S. help the Iranian people in their pursuit of democracy and basic human rights? Is an Iranian bomb an "existential threat" to Israel?

In a recent, thought-provoking op-ed in Haaretz, Dr. Avner Cohen tackled some of the basic assumptions underlying conventional thinking on the Iranian nuclear program. As the author of "Israel and the Bomb" and a Public Policy Scholar at the Woodrow Wilson Center in Washington, he's in a fascinating position to analyze this issue. Dr. Cohen also has a book coming out this September on this very subject, "The Worst Kept Secret: Israel's Bargain with the Bomb," with Columbia University Press.

The opinions expressed below do not necessarily reflect J Street's views and are intended to encourage reflection and debate. If you'd rather not receive "Word on the Street," let us know by replying directly to this message.

Have a great weekend,

- Isaac

Isaac Luria
Director of Communications and New Media
J Street
March 5, 2010

Iranian threat to destroy Israel doesn't hold up
By Avner Cohen

What if our leaders and pundits had reacted to the Iranian nuclear program in a completely different way than they actually have? What if they had not viewed an Iranian bomb as an "existential threat" and instead treated it as something that, even if it became a reality, would be a major global political problem, but not a military threat - because Iran (like every other nuclear state) would never be able to use a nuclear bomb as an operational military weapon?

What if Israel had treated Iran's nuclear project as an exhibitionist, even childish, attempt by a nation mired in a deep identity crisis to exploit the prestige and mystique of nuclear power to create a national ethos of technological progress at home, as well as a diplomatic miracle cure that would enable it to challenge the West and move to the center of the international stage?

Such a reaction would not (and should not) have minimized the gravity of the challenge Iran poses to the worldwide nuclear order, but it would have left the battle in the hands of the true guardians of this nuclear order (of which Israel is not one). Moreover, this view would not oblige Israel to attack Iran.

And what would have happened if we had refused to see ourselves as existentially threatened by Iran's push toward the nuclear threshold, viewing ourselves, as the world has already viewed us for decades, as a responsible nuclear weapons state that does not threaten other states but is also not vulnerable to nuclear threats?

What would have happened if we had refused to become hysterical and apocalyptic, and had instead remained calm at the existential level, just as the Iranians are calm with regard to us? After all, the Iranians are convinced that we have nuclear weapons - and a lot of them. Yet despite this, while they see us as a military threat to their nuclear program, they do not see us as an existential threat to the Iranian nation. Adopting such a strategic view would not oblige Israel to attack Iran, because Tehran could not pose an existential threat to Israel.

Ultimately, we need to internalize the insight that even Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad voiced this week, when he said that all the talk about an Iranian bomb is irrational and meaningless. This is not simply because any Iranian attempt to destroy Israel via a nuclear bomb would kill countless Palestinians, but because it would surely lead to the destruction of Iran itself by Israel and the United States. Therefore, the idiotic claim that Iran could bring about Israel's destruction does not hold water. While it is true that Ahmadinejad would love Israel to implode of its own accord, a self-confident and strong nation should not take such statements too seriously. And it certainly should not view them as an existential threat.

Unlike other weapons, the sway of nuclear weapons depends less on the physical characteristics of these weapons and much more on how these weapons are perceived. Nuclear weapons are almost entirely political weapons, built on perceptions and anxieties. This is even clearer today than earlier in the nuclear age. It is now agreed that except in dire emergencies, it is inconceivable that any country would use a nuclear weapon.

The taboo that has emerged as the reality of the nuclear era - and to which Israel has made its own contribution by its responsible behavior during the 1973 Yom Kippur War - is not nearly a normative one; it is based on political and military realism.

It is a great pity that through our own conduct, and especially the irresponsibly alarmist voices emerging from among us, we have inflated a political problem into an existential threat. And it is an equally great pity that we have granted legitimacy to nuclear bombs being viewed as weapons, instead of helping to delegitimize this useless weapon.

The writer, author of the book "Israel and the Bomb," is a public policy scholar at the Woodrow Wilson Center in Washington.

Tim Redfern (581)
Thursday March 11, 2010, 2:49 pm
Shakran, Abdessalam,
for verifying the story
of the "Dancing Israelis".
I knew that story had recieved
mainstream media coverage, and
was far more than a rumour.
I had forgotten about one of the men saying,
"We are not your problem, the Palestinians
are your problem."
What an odd thing to say, especially when the Bush
mis-Administration then immediately, illegally and
immorally invades Afghanistan, blaming the Taliban for 9/11,
far more than they ever blamed Osama bin Forgotten.

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Friday March 12, 2010, 5:28 am
You are welcome Pastor Tim.It seems that who denied this story on this forum has disappeared.

. (0)
Friday March 12, 2010, 5:33 am
No, Abdessalam. We haven't 'disappeared'. Just too darned busy posting our own stories.....

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Friday March 12, 2010, 1:49 pm
Its world war on cyberspace...

. (0)
Friday March 12, 2010, 5:54 pm
No, Yvonne. "World War" is a gross exaggeration. A phrase designed to create importance where none exists.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Friday March 12, 2010, 11:12 pm
Non-existance is a state of mind.

. (0)
Friday March 12, 2010, 11:18 pm
Not merely a 'state of mind', Yvonne. Also a state of being.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Saturday March 13, 2010, 3:18 am

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Saturday March 13, 2010, 4:09 am
You can very easly ignore those who denied the nine Mosaad dancing agents.When it is verified,they have nothing to say.

Spencer Selander (8)
Saturday March 13, 2010, 4:50 am
Ahmadinejad has said some pretty stupid things from time to time; other times he makes a lot of sense. He's making sense this time - really, he's just stating the obvious.

Tim Redfern (581)
Saturday March 13, 2010, 8:45 am
I will not name names, but there are certain people in
this very thread who have managed to drive
Simon Wood completely OFF Care2. He has closed his profile and
left this sire, likely never to return, because some of you people feel
forced to take such a hateful, vitriolic attitude towards anyone who
disagrees with you.
And so, as a result, Care2 has lost one of it's few remaining, truly dedicated
activists who was (and is) committed to making this world a better snd more
just place to live. Sadly, thanks to the behaviour of some of you (allegedly)
grown men and women, we've lost this fine man from our community.
Coming from a man who will NEVER leave Care2, not under any circumstances,
I will say to you:
Thanks for nothing.

. (0)
Saturday March 13, 2010, 9:10 am
Perhaps, Tim, Simon has merely been suspended for awhile rather than having left the site permanently. Although I did request that no one report him for his 'hateful, vitriolic' and untrue statements, perhaps someone less tolerant than I did indeed report him to Care2.


. (0)
Saturday March 13, 2010, 9:14 am
Yes, Tim - after checking I see that Simon's statement was indeed zapped by Care2. So I assume that after awhile he'll hopefully be back. The forum will indeed be a less lively place without him on it.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Saturday March 13, 2010, 12:11 pm
Pastor Tim, It is terrible to have such a discussion with hate and revenge without any remorse in their heart. I do understand how you feel but then, this is the world we live in now. Thank you for your support and all you do here.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Saturday March 13, 2010, 12:13 pm
Abdessalam, I can do a good job at ignoring and I'm getting better and better at it as this thread goes

Kit B (276)
Saturday March 13, 2010, 8:26 pm
Or perhaps Tim you do not name names as the truth is no one knows who either reported Simon for breaking the rules or he finally decided to remove himself either way. Pretending to have "inside" information is just nonsense and if disagreement is being vindictive then you and everyone on this thread that disagree with others are vindictive. Grow up! Disagreement is a healthy part of any discussion and Simon's immature ability to state his facts without threats is very likely what caused his problems - use of certain language or statements that imply a desire to cause harm are not acceptable forms of debate.

Kit B (276)
Saturday March 13, 2010, 8:36 pm
I have just been reading some of the comments I had missed - well as it turns out I had missed nothing. People that actually write such vile things on an open forum should be ashamed, but then people of such low character and filled with that much hate have no shame. There are groups you can join for like minded people, the KKK, Aryan Nation just to name two, but as you know there are many more.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Saturday March 13, 2010, 10:02 pm

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Sunday March 14, 2010, 12:52 am
Simon will be back after a while . He is a great human rights activist.

Sir Walk F (124)
Sunday March 14, 2010, 4:45 pm
Just read through this whole thread of bickering. Only about five comments even address the information in the article.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Monday March 15, 2010, 1:13 am
My thoughts exactly!

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Monday March 15, 2010, 6:21 am
Please stop sending personal messages to me.If you have a point post it here.

. (0)
Monday March 15, 2010, 6:43 am
Most people, Abdessalam, prefer to have uncomfortable and unpleasant truths stated privately. But, in future, I shall remember that you wish to see them made publicly. :-)

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Monday March 15, 2010, 10:32 am
Ya right on

Tim Redfern (581)
Monday March 15, 2010, 11:42 am
"Pretending to have inside information".

All right, Kit, since you asked, you're one of the people
Simon mentioned by name as being among those who drove
him away. He was not suspended or banned by Care2, he left
of his own accord. He shared this information with me in a private
e-mail, which I will NOT post here. I would not violate his trust.

Kit, it is your own personal bias against Simon's views
that lead you to label the man as "immature"........or, is it that
you're almost twice his age. and assuming that age means wisdom?

As to your suggestion that I join the KKK or Aryan Nations............
uhhhh, no, thank you.
I'm a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and the views of these
two organisations are in complete opposition to what I believe and
how I have chosen to live my life.
Although, I must say, it was quite racist and small-minded of you to suggest
that I join either of those groups. May the other people in this thread read that
post of yours, and see you for what (and who) you are.

Abdessalam, if Lindsey is giving you problems,
block her contact.
It's easy enough to do.

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Thursday March 18, 2010, 12:50 am
I think everyone in the world should see this movie, MY NAME IS KHAN and get educated

Elderberry T (201)
Thursday March 18, 2010, 4:50 pm
Anyone who sends obnoxious private messages should be reported and suspended by care2...its known as harrassment.

Regarding the 9/11 "hijackers" is 1st page of a google search....

At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still AliveFull details of the alleged 9/11 hijackers. At least 7 of the FBI named perpetrators have been confirmed as being alive by mainstream news sources. - Cached - Similar

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Hijack 'suspects' alive and wellSaudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said ... are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar, may also be alive. ... - Cached - Similar

Many 9-11 "Hijackers" are Still Alive.MANY 9-11 "HIJACKERS" ARE STILL ALIVE. The world's media has reported that many of the so-called hijackers "fingered" by the FBI are still alive. ... - Cached - Similar

9-11 "Hijackers" Identified by FBI: Seven Are Alive and Well"Adnan Bukhari is still in Florida" - CNN Correction Amer Kamfar ".... that a suspect sought by the FBI, Amer Kamfar, was in fact an alive pilot in Arabia. ... - Cached - Similar

Tracking the 19 Hijackers - web of liesStill Alive11. Alleged Pilot, Fayez Rashid Ahmed Hassan Al Qadi Banihammad ... How could he praise uninvolved living people12 for the 9/11 hijackings? ... - Cached - Similar

MANY 9-11 "HIJACKERS" ARE STILL ALIVE9/11 Hijackers Alive flight training school passport stolen identityaziz omari osama bin laden report september 11 9. - Cached - Similar

YouTube - A Truth TV World News 9 11 Hijackers ARE STILL ALIVE as ...Just watch and learn. the said 911 Hi-Jackers, half of themare STILL ALIVE.... MainStream Media & Federal Government LIED to us all. - Cached

Hijackers in the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free ...Mihdhar and Hazmi were also potential pilot hijackers, but did not do well in .... on 9/11 were alive, and were feared to have been victims of identity theft. ... "Alleged shooter tied to mosque of 9/11 hijackers". Associated Press. ... - 7 hours ago - Cached - Similar

Hijackers -Debunk 9/11 Myths31 May 2009 ... One story, published by the BBC on September 23, indicated that Mihdhar was possibly still alive. In 2006, in response to 9/11 conspiracy ... - Cached - Similar

9-11 Research: Resurrected HijackersAl-Nami said: "I'm still alive, as you can see. ... 'Suicide hijacker' is an airline pilot alive and well in Jeddah,, 9/17/01 [cached] ... - Cached - Similar
Searches related to 9/11 pilots still alive

Tx for the post Yvonne..sorry to arrive so late. I also agree with Ani's comment

. (0)
Thursday March 18, 2010, 4:58 pm
And Elvis is alive and well and was just seen buying a doughnut and Dr. Pepper at the 7-11 off Route 27.......

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Thursday March 18, 2010, 10:56 pm

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