Start A Petition

Clinton Inflames Progressive Base With Choice of Tim Kaine as Vice President

US Politics & Gov't  (tags: U.S., Hillary Clinton, Democratic Party, Election 2016, Tim Kaine )

- 975 days ago -
"I'm thrilled to tell you," Clinton texted those on her mailing list just before 8:15 PM EDT on Friday evening: "I've chosen Sen. Tim Kaine as my running mate."


We hate spam. We do not sell or share the email addresses you provide.


Wilde Thange (10)
Friday July 22, 2016, 6:10 pm
TPP was a done deal, they don't negotiate for years for nothing. But they think Trump makes her a slam dunk and everyone has to settle for crumbs. Politics as usual in other words.

JL A (281)
Friday July 22, 2016, 6:19 pm
I've been busy unsubscribing, after notifying the CA DEM Party of this ticket meaning the Party has left all ordinary people and has no intention of doing anything other than enacting more of the failed and unsustainable neocon/neoliberal policies that are destroying our economy, our budget, increasing inequality and poverty and thus racism and is the foundation of the divisiveness in society that brought us Trump...and that she is telling us she doesn't want or need the support of progressives nor have any intention of pushing for any policy that is fundamentally progressive. Thanks Judy for this post that tells it as it is rather than as the corporate neocon media would prefer to sell it.

Kathy B (106)
Friday July 22, 2016, 6:26 pm
Proof yet again that Shillary has no idea what Progressive even means.

Fiona Ogilvie (562)
Friday July 22, 2016, 6:39 pm
Thanks, Judy. Wilde Thange, JL A, Kathy......all true... Shillary...... worst liar of all liars....brain is hope at all.

Mitchell D (82)
Friday July 22, 2016, 6:47 pm
Bloody shame!!! Damn!
This just underlines how the DNCC requests to "Vote for your choice for Hillary's vice president," (like 2014's "McConnell on the run, donate", and I did not, either time, was nothing more than a BS ploy to ask for donations. I might just go find a rock to hide under. Disappointed! I will, nonetheless, vote for her/them, but if I'm this upset about this WTF? choice, I an imagine the response of those that have had expectations really built up. This is reminiscent of the Eugene McCarthy burst bubble!

Mitchell D (82)
Friday July 22, 2016, 6:48 pm
See my posting about Rumpy and his not being home, at:

Animae C (508)
Friday July 22, 2016, 6:49 pm
Vote blue no matter who..... NOT!

Animae C (508)
Friday July 22, 2016, 6:51 pm
Sending stars to all but not sure if they are being received.

JL A (281)
Friday July 22, 2016, 6:54 pm
I guess she doesn't want the convention to show unity after all:
Many Sanders Delegates Ready to Fight Over VP Pick

Norman Solomon of Bernie Delegates Network says a survey shows many Sanders' delegates will openly oppose a right wing Clinton VP selection

JL A (281)
Friday July 22, 2016, 6:57 pm
I got mine AniMae

Past Member (0)
Friday July 22, 2016, 7:46 pm
Bill Black is quoted in the article. I have a lot of respect for Bill.

"It's not what you say, it's what you do," said Black. "Clinton can talk about caring about the U.S. public, but this choice cuts through the rhetoric. Kaine, like Clinton herself, is a quintessential 'New Democrat'—meaning they are allies of Wall Street."

"This shows Hillary Clinton hasn't learned a thing from the failed pro-Wall Street policies that have wrecked the economy. It’s bad politics and it’s bad policy. Actually, that’s not quite right. These policies have worked brilliantly for the top 1/1000th of one percent. They have been disastrous for nearly everyone else in the U.S. — and around the world."

My G-d!!!! I can't express adequately just how much I wanted Bill Black back in our government working for We The People in a Sanders administration!!!!


Jae A (316)
Friday July 22, 2016, 9:26 pm
I took the time to type a post, in length, as to how I feel about this VP pick of Hillary. Not a glowing one to say the least. I also tried to comment on Trump's evangelic Taliban type wanna be for his VP pick. However once I clicked on the 'post'/submit tab my comment disapeared and I was signed out of care2 instead of the post appearing.

I will probably return and give it one more try but I'm really ready to give up on the care2 site due to so many on going..long time for problems. From the number of contributors I see now compared to eight or even four years ago has really shrank...the majority I'm guessing due to the on going problems for everyone...other than advertisers. My security programs pop up huge warnings each time I sign onto the site..that it has 'suspicious' items which I figure is hidden in advertisement.

For is my big BOOOO for Trump and his VP pick as well as to Hillary and hers.

Lynn Squance (235)
Friday July 22, 2016, 9:54 pm
I don't know Kaine but when I heard about this on the car radio, I thought Virginia? Doesn't Virginia tend to be on the conservative side? This would appear not to bode well, but as I said, I don't know anything about Kaine. Learning time.

Rose Becke (141)
Friday July 22, 2016, 9:57 pm
OH dear

Darren Woolsey (218)
Friday July 22, 2016, 10:43 pm
"Kaine, like Clinton herself, is a quintessential 'New Democrat'—meaning they are allies of Wall Street. They embrace a neoliberal, pro-corporate outlook that has done incredible damage to the vast majority of Americans." —economist William K. Black

Shared over social media to spread awareness.

Judy C (91)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 12:20 am
This news certainly is bad for Progressives! I'm totally disgusted, and learning more is not encouraging me any.

Thanks everyone for your comments and links. I, too, admire William K. Black. As always, he is spot on.

Sorry to hear about your post Jae. These days if I'm going to post a comment to a news story that is extended at all, I now select and copy the comment before I post it. That way if it disappears, I just paste it and try again. It's so frustrating to lose your work like that.

Morgan F (37)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 12:29 am
well, when i came back to care2 to retire. been gone for almost 2 years right. actively protesting for real. to the point my health is actually sick. I am for real sick. Its chronic. Not going to get better. So figure coming home to relax with my family here on care2, -_- .. well my family x.x .. the site is not working well and to be honest, what i seen .. with the people signing funky petitions ??? WOW .. the sites everyone is signing at for one, risky sites and then one million signatures went out from care2 against TARGET! for the bathroom bill. i was just shocked! .. that was what i was fighting against outside and then when i came here to find out that care2 was involed in signing that i was so shocked... like i said... it seemed like a black hole took over here in the past 2 years.. glad to see some of you are still ok ... like this few :) TY! hugs .. omg ty for surviving the black hole my family! omg omg omg

Judy C (91)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 12:56 am
Welcome back Morgan. There are lots of us still here with our hearts in the right place, IMHO.

Jae A (316)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 1:04 am
First off my Kudos to Morgan F. comments and welcome back Morgan. I too have been away for a long time, other than to sign in and send out some green stars and read the postings/comments of others every so often...few weeks or months apart.

@ our dear friend Judy C., what you suggested is what I did make a point to do in the past finally but just failed to do it when typing my earlier post, thinking that things might be working correctly somehow . Boy was I wrong but it happened .... from now on..that 'suggestion' is once again a must for me from now on, even if I haven't been to the site in some time or at a time when things are posting correctly. Lesson learned long ago but ol mind jussss forgot how bad it was or could be when posting a comment or an article. If not for the long time friends that I made in the past on this site I probably would have gone for good long ago...but one misses their internet friends just as with real time ones so I keep come'n back. I do so for that reason and for my original reason.... that the green stars translate into donations for good causes.

Next on my mind :

Yes I was very frustrated with care2 when I made attempts to post a comment earlier today. That took me off topic from the get go. As off topic as it was I would like to clarify some of my above comments that were off topic before I continue on topic. I have no way of knowing if it is the ads that are causing problems with some of the posting or to personal computers or if they contain spyware/malware, but from the signs my computer has each time I come to care2 they are about the same as other sites who do. I am surprised that Randy doesn't have a capable tech to fix programs as they come up in a matter of a few hours instead of days. Any 'profitable' site knows that is a must in order to maintain a profit from ads but one should also have staff that can scan all ads in order to find out what they contain that's hidden. I am disappointed with the loss of active posters as to their numbers, especially at a time of an election. I do believe that the tech problems are just too many, too often, for people with limited time or even for those who take an extra amount in supporting their fav causes. Being without 'green stars' for more than a few hours , when those are why many come to the site in the first place ... knowing that those translate into donations for so many good causes, is more than a little aggravation to many members. Add computer problems while visiting the site as well as long term ones being possible is not the best way of conducting a profitable site. The notice on the site about it being free due to advertisers is well...silly at best as I doubt that enough people could or would pay, even if they could, to join the site when so many are out there don't. Even some of the biggest 'discussion' driven site that are among the more profitable ones, that don't have the tech problems that care2 does. I do hope that Randy will think very seriously about upgrading his the staff and be more aware of what the advertisers on the site are embedding into their ads...Randy created something positive when he came up with care2, I just hope he will rethink and adjust to keeping it as positive as his original idea was, and by doing so have more profit for the effort in the long run.......just say'n.

Finally **ON TOPIC**:

All that being said... :-). I, obviously from my above post, don't believe that Hillary's VP will not help her win...for some of the reason I did list above but for other reasons also. That isn't to say that for a moderate Republican he does, at least support and do his best to progress on some 'social issues' .He does support several regardless of his corporate interest/ does Hillary. Those are their only saving grace, so to say, for Democrats. Min. for a centrist at least. The Vp pick might even be a tiny bit more of a progressive lean than Hillary. Bottom line is that they are, unfortunately, the only choice for Dem.s and one that we must not only accept but support to at least a min. degree.

Even if their min. is that they are way ahead in the 'social issue' department..i.m.o. over that of Trump and his lap dog Pence..lap dog that is unless he gets to sit in the white house oval office as president one day for whatever unfortunate reason. A real disaster for our Republic ... the masses, if he were to ever get that office.

I think at worst things under a Hillary/Kaine administration will just... remain...more of the same, as it been under Obama. Under the Trump team it will be as bad if not worse than under the criminal minds of the entire Dubya/Cheney administration...but hopefully without another bogus war for the sake of corporate profits.

Trump isn't as scary as Pence to me. I can see that Trump is a egotistical bully with no real knowledge as to how government works under a Democracy. He seems to believe it's the same as under a dictator. Pence, if anything happened that Trump couldn't finish out a term, would usher in the radicalized/extremist Christian mindset equal only to that of Sharia law. Just read the GOP platform to understand that. A whole section devoted to the idea, basically, that religious laws should 'out trump'..[no pun intended ].. those of our local, state, and Federal laws. Pence has no regard for our constitution period and would do all he could to turn our governing laws over to radicalized/extremist christians...which 'their translation' to most everything in the xtian bible is to judge/hate and kill .. violence against those that are not like themselves in their radicalize religious beliefs. Sound familiar to any other 'extremist'/radicalized religious group [s] in the world .... I think so.

Fact is Hillary is the best the left has to offer, many times over that of what Trump has for the right, other than his bully style hate speech... but she's going to have to keep some progressive values high on her list, before the election, and afterward if she has any hope of a second win, providing she wins this one...i.m.o.

Dawnie W (250)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 2:12 am
❤️ Thanking you kindly for sharing this information❤️
💕💛ღ❤️Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ💕♥L💜ve, Hugs and Peace go with you all♥💕Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ❤️ღ💛💕

Angelika R (143)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 2:40 am
' Emails Released by WikiLeaks Appear to Show DNC Trying to Aid Hillary Clinton' titles Yahoo-well, skip the "appears'-it is obvious and should NOT go with impunity. Plus blunt anti-semitism-where are the voices usually shoutin out then???

Thx Judy! Well, with Kaine better buckle up for TPP! Any bets? !

Angelika R (143)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 3:13 am
It is MORE than obvious she's flipping the bird at Bernie and his supporters! Instead out to get Trump supporters and that especially so in swing states and battlegrounds!
As the NYT said, " a one-time Catholic missionary fluent in Spanish"-what more proof do you need?!
And she wants to make sure he'll be a potent POTUS if she for some reason drops out, to make sure he'll continue the perpetual war, being the military expert he also is!

Lona G (66)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 3:52 am
News here (Netherlands) described Hillary Clinton's choice of Tim Kaine as VP as "a safe bet". The upcoming Democratic convention will give us the first indication of how safe this bet really is.

Arielle S (313)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 4:56 am
Jae, don't you dare leave us! We need as many "white hats" as we can get, especially these days.

I do not like Hillary - she seems the wolf in sheep's clothing to me and I simply cannot back her. I may have to just find a good cave for the next four years....


Danuta W (1251)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 5:10 am

roxy H (350)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 7:19 am
lol @ Morgan

roxy H (350)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 7:23 am
The shame of 2016 is this is what, almost August and the elections is a whacked out strange mess. We need to get rid of Bushama years. Patriot Act and the whole smack of crap has been trickle down killing us since 1980.. we in trouble folks

Terrie Williams (798)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 7:24 am
And some of you thought me obstinate, idiosyncratic, foolish and outright stupid for backing Bernie all the way to the convention and beyond.......what ya think now, ma peeps (I still love yas) ?????? Her majesty is NOT, never has been nor ever will be a PROGRESSIVE. Period. She has been, is and ever will be a REPUBLICAN,. We can call it 'Neo-Liberal, we can call it Neo-Con, whatever, it all boils down to FASCIST. Either way, be it Derr Fuhrer Dumbass Creamcicle or Her Majesty we are all royally, truly screwed. Vote for that......never. We have been herded into yet another 'lesser of two evils' election. I am so utterly sick to death of that. Kaine is not a Democrat for the people either, never was and never will be. This not only proves that Her Majesty is giving all us Bernie Backers the royal finger, she is giving ALL the people the royal finger. Lip service to the platform. She won't do any of it unless there is something in it for her.

So, here's what they want you to vote for......

Trump = Full blown Fascism in your face, Mussolini-style. Like it or die.


Clinton = Full blown Fascism, just not so in your face but definitely behind your back, in secret agreements and exchanges and she will make you accept it by giving you something while taking away something while you are not looking....just like Slick Willie did all those years ago...that we are still dealing with and still paying for.


We can throw a wrench in their well-greased plans by NOT voting the way they want and break the illusion of choice. We could vote third party. We could, enmasse, vote for Bernie in 43 states where they have to count the write-ins. We could vote for Jill Stein, or Gary Johnson (gag). ANYONE but who they want to 'assign' or 'anoint. Something has to give, soon, or we are all fodder for their war machines, fodder for their prisons or fodder for their environmental disasters'....or worse. I can't even think of that step.

The choice really is OURS. We can be sheeple or lemmings.....or we can be Human Beings and Patriots....real ones.

roxy H (350)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 7:41 am

roxy H (350)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 7:43 am
LIKE AC DC SAYS NO PIPE DREAMS .... BUST IT OUT ... we in a hard place... what is there to lose... grab it and take it .. we only have now... #STANDWITHGRANNIES

Gene J (286)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 8:57 am
Well, I got an email from Obama. He likes Tim a lot. I hope he can persuade Bernie voters because, I am in agreement with the article, this is NOT a good pick at all. She's picked a relative unknown, which as I was thinking about that, meant to me that she intends to make this election completely about her and Donald. Pence is no help, neither is Kaine. I want her to run on the platform and to contrast it with the republican platform every single day from now until forever. And I want her pushing those ideals in that platform forward. I do not want it ignored if she should win, and I now think that in doubt, perhaps my mood will improve after the election but right now I am not happy at all. And more than a little worried.

Sheryl G (359)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 8:57 am
Absolutely no surprise that this would be her pick. We could of had Bernie Sanders, we could of started to truly begin helping the poor, the oppressed, the disenfranchised, the middle class, but no......we get Hillary. She had started off the Third Way Democrat and when she saw too many people were not buying into her crap and a lot were flocking to Bernie Sanders she started to sound like Bernie.......she is a parrot......she never believed in or is a progressive.

I'll agree with Trump on that one, she is a liar.

And why people will still vote for her instead of supporting the 3rd parties such as the THE GREEN PARTY which is what we need and is on line to what Bernie was offering, if not even more, is beyond me. I'm tired of hearing the but they won't win, well they won't win if you don't vote for them.

Election after election the people vote in the same miserable Parties and wonder why it continues to grow worse or show no signs of improvement. There comes a time that one has to STOP supporting that which is killing us. It's called RESISTANCE.

It is true one of the other equally horrid Candidates are going to get into the White House but they are that, BOTH horrid and is nothing I can support. So at the very least we can do is BUILD up the GREEN PARTY, if a miracle happens Dr. Jill Stein could win, and that miracle is in each and everyone hands - vote for her.

But at the very least if you get them 5% of the vote they get money to help them promote their Party for the next time, if they get 15% of the vote they get to stand on the stage and debate with the other two Parties. I would rather fight for true progress than throw my hat into more of the same and fascist leadership and there is a reason a lot of neocons are moving over to Hillary.

Get working on those lower tickets seats, we got two major fights going on here in Florida, one for Senate to get Alan Grayson in, a real bulldog with teeth, a fighting progressive he is, and Tim Canova giving that Debbie Wasserman Schultz a good run on that House seat. We need to get her out, a Third Way Dem and rigged things to get Hillary in, and Rubio out a Tea Bagger.

So check your down tickets within your own States and fight like hell to get any Progressive in that is trying to help us.

JL A (281)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 9:59 am
Very well said Terrie and Dandelion; thank you

Angelika R (143)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 10:03 am
Gene-dream on if that is good for your health! ;) Just be prepared for a bitter wake up!
I cannot send any stars either,-with some few single exceptions yesterday.. just consider yourselves all 'starred'
and a milky way to our TX friend Terrie!
With the wikileaks email revelations the corporate b**** is in big trouble and getting bigger. I begin to wonder if the next prez may be Kaine.. the Dems seem to be capable and hellbent to do just about ANY trick, no matter how awkward and downright nasty.
The many ongoing lawsuits for election fraud etc should also very soon come into play..

JL A (281)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 10:05 am
Has anyone suggested that the main value of their VP picks might be impeachment and assassination protection insurance?

roxy H (350)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 10:06 am
I am done with this BUSHAMA and SHIT we been living ... my wolves died and we have NEVER GOT THEM RELISTED YET! ... since they refuse to give me the wolves back i am voting GREEN !

roxy H (350)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 10:06 am
put me on board... lets roll

roxy H (350)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 10:07 am
send me all the info you can ... i have a lot of people i can forward it to

JL A (281)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 10:20 am
Roxy: the more global lawsuit updates are at:
CA still doesn't tell me they counted my primary votes that they told me they'd received in time...

Sheryl G (359)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 10:45 am
Very good Roxy, the Dem's give basic lip service to our environment and the animals, the Republicans haven't seen a bill to protect the environment they have liked yet - they simply don't acknowledge there is a problem. We've had more fracking and oil drilling under the Obama Administration, more rights taken away, than the previous Administrations. So what is worse a Party that is totally shameless or one that claims to be on your side and then stabs you in the back.

So yes, Vote Green, they are the only ones that care about the two legged, the four leggeds, the animals, trees, and the waters in general. This earth is being treated like is was a cesspool and the 1% are amassing more and more wealth while Mothers watch their babies die for lack. Enough is enough. If you support the Party that protects the 1% you have your hands dirty as much as the ones who are doing it. Stop supporting that which you KNOW is not working.

I don't care what comes out of their mouth look at their actions. ACTIONS - stop making excuses for Hillary and the other idiots and start voting for the quality people who are in there fighting for you and me.

Angelika R (143)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 10:53 am
It is like Davis Swanson alrready said it earlier: 'Could Hillary Be Any Worse? Sure, Add Tim Kaine to the Ticket'
He is telling us the things Kaine WON'T SAY about himself..listen to him speaking right now, being introduced by her! And as he lauds her she may even outdo herself in nodding more than the 406 times when Sanders endorsed her. ;-)

Sheryl G (359)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 10:54 am
Fine talk for someone who isn't even voting at all.

Sheryl G (359)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 10:56 am
My comment wasn't directed at Angelika, you slipped another comment in before mine took.

JL A (281)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 11:11 am
The Clinton's bear responsibility for the rise of Trump based on a historical context analysis as summarized:
Trump's Neo-Fascism Appeals to Victims of Obama/Clinton Economics

JL A (281)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 11:37 am
I am a progressive that supports people who do not harm the environment and violate human rights just because that is what is best for their corporate donors...that is the core of Clinton's neocon/neoliberal policies and why I cannot support her. However, I am seeing she is not as bright as she thinks she is since she thinks her avowed policies that led to a Trump candidacy can beat it in Nov. If she had actually learned from Bernie, she would know better than that and would not be choosing to lose in this way that destroys the Party.

JL A (281)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 11:41 am
The Trumps and Clinton play golf together and attend each others' family weddings since they share the same elitist world view that ensures corporate control and benefits of all policies they support. I can even picture Trump offering her a position like SOS in this administration if he wins since their views are so similar--he states it bluntly while she provides a diplomatic smokescreen cover to do the same thing in so many, many areas of policy.

Donna G (42)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 11:56 am
The choice of Tim Kaine as her running mate does not surprise me one bit. Kaine is against the death penalty; but, that's about it.

At this point, I'm not sure I would even vote for Bernie Sanders. But, I will continue to support him and Jill Stein. In case you are interested, Jill Stein's campaign set a goal to raise $500,000 in 25 days. They did in just 10 days. They started their Clean Money Challenge on July 12 and by July 22, had raised $505,635. Now her campaign qualifies for the 1:1 federal matching funds.

Angelika R (143)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 12:15 pm
And that ain't all the Clintons-at least ONE of them share with the Donald! Only Nyack forgot to mention that when bringing up his "ties to organised crime"..

Angelika R (143)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 12:19 pm
Donna, and very likely for a spot at the debates. that is, unless the dems decide to one again put her handcuffed in a cell for hours.

Janet B (0)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 12:29 pm

Colleen L (3)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 12:41 pm
I thought she was going to have Bernie..Thanks Judy

Peggy B (43)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 12:47 pm
JL A, I too have been unsubscribing from emails and on the polls have made sure to let them know I categorically will not vote for Hillary. Of all the dems & independents I know personally, I have yet to find one that will vote for her. Where are they getting the votes for her?

Sheila D (194)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 12:52 pm
Still say I'll be voting for Jill Stein...unless Bernie decides step back in. Knew that Clinton wouldn't go for a Progressive Platform...don't vote for those who lie so well, then tell We, the People, lies to placate them just to get their votes. Think too many of us know those lies by now.

Sheila D (194)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 12:59 pm
BTW, Can't give any green stars out today, So: ***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Jl, Angelika, Judy, Peggy, Dandelion, Donna, Roxy, Jae, Gene, Arielle, Randy, Morgan, Animae, Wilde, Kathy, and others...To everyone, lots of stars.

Birgit W (160)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 1:07 pm
Thanks for sharing.

Sheryl G (359)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 1:42 pm
I live with people who vote as well Nyack, so what. You don't have to ask my permission and you know that you just come on here as per usual to start crap.

You go on and on about others and who they vote for or don't vote for and their reasons and you are not even voting - so what's it to YOU?

It is just a way to cause a problem on the threads, trying to get your sick and twisted thrills or something or perhaps make sure you earn your Hillary blood money.

If you really CARED about YOUR Country you'd cut the crap, you offer nothing but hatefulness upon the threads.

margaret cochran (41)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 3:12 pm

Jae A (316)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 3:46 pm
First off for those who know me via our past care2 togetherness :-), I am thick skin'd and don't give up on a political fight until the final bell rings, so ta say. ..and if and when opposing trolls as some are referred to as being, well those are my fav posters. They are the ones that make it easy to combat with facts. Keep in mind that their are others who read these threads that haven't made their decision to date and who are less politically motivate than others as their main reasons for being members have their focus on other causes. They are the 'crossover voters' that we all need to help, doing so honestly, in their decision making by posting the better argument/facts for our choice. ..whoever that is after the convention is over.

This election is so out of control in so many ways it's not easy to keep the focus of the future in mind, other than who we each want as our Candidates. At this time, mine is still Bernie but it's Hillary up until the convention...Though there might be a glimmer of hope that Bernie could somehow reverse that to his direction it's will be a serious uphill battle. If and when Hillary is nominated that would end the hope for us who want Bernie. Until then keep the hope whatever you feel you can action wise etc. but as I'll mention more than once today and in the ready for your Plan B should our hope run out for Bernie. I think most who are posting and reading this thread know what their plan B will be but hesitate to mention theirs ...'hoping' not to jinx our hope for Bernie. For now...I still say yes to Bernie!

Remember folks...differences make for 'great threads' as they give everyone a chance to speak their mind. Those who post the plus side to a candidate over another leave everything said through out a thread up to the readers to decide which 'argument' they will go with In the long run.

Bernie unfortunately was out maneuvered by the Hillary camp with a lot of help from DWS and sure ,that was wrong as wrong can be for someone in her position. Fact is ..she/they did it. I believe that Bernie started with one thing in keep progressive ideas/issues in play for the Dem party regardless If he won or not. He will continue to stand and fight for progressive long after this it against Hillary or whoever else sits in the White House. We don't have many like Bernie and Elizabeth but both of them are really good for the nation right where they is. We need to elect others like them to help Bernie and Elizabeth make sure whoever is Prez/Vp keep focus on progressive issues. Sure having Bernie as the Dem candidate would be one to date for the Dem party i.m.o. but it didn't happen. That doesn't mean he's gone from public view...I in fact believe that he and Elizabeth will both continue on with progressive issues and speak out...very loudly ...should those issues not be addressed after the election. It's all a risk as to Hillary currently but as I said earlier...she is the candidate. There are many running for local/state elections and that is where we all need to place our votes regardless if one votes for Hillary or not. The Dems must, now more than ever, become the majority throughout all of Congress. In some states you must vote the 'ticket' but others do allow one to vote for someone other than the 'ticket' candidate for Prez, while voting for various local/state positions. In those states one can vote for Jill/Bernie/whoever for the office of President and pick their choices one by one for other offices.

As Cruz your conscience . That is what I plan to do as to the Presidency position, which may or may not be in line with the rest of my vote.

The stop Trump within the GOP failed . the progressive movement/hope to change the nomination to Bernie is iffy at best i.m.o. The Hillary powerhouse is in motion...and for us to change that direction will take more than hope and petitions. Not sure what it would take but it's doubtful that we will succeed in that fight during the Dem Convention. I still have 'hope' for Bernie but Bernie himself has accepted the facts as they are at this time. I feel strongly that he will do all in his power with his position in the future to help keep Hillary to her word and speak out loudly should she not do so. Like others, she will want to win a second term so Bernie and others are people that she will have to deal with properly should she end up the candidate and be elected.

Vote your choice when possible per state rules when it comes to who will sit behind the oval office desk but without pause vote for 'Progressive' Dems for all other seats available ! Whoever is Prez will have to deal will them just as Obama had to deal with a Republican majority in Congress.

Yes I still have some hope for Bernie but I also have a Plan B should that hope be spoiled.

We must all think of Plan disheartening a that might be for many of us, should our plan A not take place. Jussss say'n.

I hate the thought of more of the same but I also hate, even more , the thought of Trump becoming our first dictator..

Ok, gloves back on...ring the bell ref ! We have until the nomination process is over at the convention to keep our hope alive....

If I have to watch/listen to DWS one more time I might just upchuck or cry crocodile tears just to get some relief. She is one I'd like to see locked up and the key thrown away but I don't get what I want ...sometimes :-) so I deal with that fact the best I can. Right's like pulling ones own teeth as to how to deal with way the DNC handled their end in this election. See my middle finger DWS...

Ok, gloves back on...ring the bell ref !

Jae A (316)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 4:05 pm
...and no the 'finger ' was not meant for anyone on Dancing With Stars :-)...I like all of them. The finger wave, for those who aren't regular reads of political threads, goes out to Debbie Wasserman Schultz, chairman of the DNC : the oh so wrong gal [I'm trying to be PC here] more ways than I can count when it comes to her ethics and Dem election process.

Katie & Bill D (107)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 4:08 pm
Good Reading here, Thank you

Lois Jordan (63)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 4:17 pm
Thanks for posting, Judy.

Well, I will be watching the Dem convention closely, hoping that Plan B works......
Otherwise, Clinton is still not getting my vote. She didn't have to shove it down our throats and then slit our throats just for good measure. That was just mean and nasty.
her way of acquiring more Republican votes.....all those who will not vote for T-Rump.

I guess she just had to crunch the numbers and figure out if she would get more Republican votes than the Dem votes she'd be losing.
Wonder if she really counted on so many of us jumping the Dem. ship.

I'm going to do what others have done and start "un-subscribing" from Dem mailings I'm still getting.
And, they are now coming fast and furiously.
(I've already "un-subscribed" from some of the bigger ones.)
As fast as I un-subscribe from one, two new different ones come the next day!
But, if many of us who are getting these constant mailings, do will definitely send a message.

Bottom line, is that obviously Clinton doesn't need our votes. So, the Dem party is now forming to become "Republican-Lite." Makes me sick to death!
And, IF T-Rump does actually win the presidency, MAYBE THIS TIME the Dems will fight back harder than they did against Bush.
With him we got illegal wars by invading other countries, rendition, torture, Gitmo, Fracking, "No-Bid-Cost-Plus" contracts so private corporations could make huge profits----the epitome of War Profiteering, and a very hateful and divisive Republican mention just a few of the Top Hits.
And, where were the Dems? Fighting back? Nope.
Maybe if they lose to another fascist, they'll finally learn their lesson and start fighting back.
One can hope.

Past Member (2031)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 4:19 pm
I am proudly voting for the Clinton-Kaine ticket! I was thrilled that she picked him. In November we will either elect Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump as President. I am horrified at the prospect of the GOP controlling all three branches of the government again. This happened in 2000, when idiots in Florida voted for Ralph Nader and handed George Bush the White House in January 2001. I couldn't believe it when Bush was re-elected in 2004. By the time he left office in 2009 we were almost in another Great Depression. No matter how mad you are the Bernie Sanders lost the election, please consider how much damage a Trump Presidency could do.

Sheryl G (359)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 4:50 pm
I as well have removed myself from all the Dem's mailings and told them why. Not sure why I'm getting those from the Republican side unless they are trying to win over the Bernie supporters but I told them to go take a hike too.

If the Democrats lose the White House it isn't because of anything like 2000 it is because they are not at all where the people want them to be. Bernie collected 45% of the votes AND he was snubbed by the DNC, he was ignored by the Corporate press and when he was mentioned he was referred to as the fringe and had no hope to win. He had everything against him EXCEPT the people!

If the Democratic Establishment, the one's making big money and all comfy in their lives, rubbing shoulders with the cocktail set, the few women who do have great jobs, they have forgotten for many years the lives of the people they use to say they fought for.

Where were they when Bill Clinton shoved NAFTA down our throats? Millions of good paying jobs still are leaving this Country America Is Being Economically Disemboweled Now Carrier is Leaving Where were they when Bill Clinton signed in the Telecommunications Act of 1996 that has led to our media being sent to us now by only 6 outlets and opened the door for the many Russ Limbaughs to take over the airways with no countering.

Where were the Democrats when Bill Clinton signed into law the Welfare Reform Act of 1996 that has sent single women into DEEP poverty, removing the Safety Net that was set up under FDR. Where were they as he Removed the Glass-Steagall Act that was placed in by our ancestors so we'd not have an economic breakdown like the Great Depression.

Where were the Democrats when President Obama bailed out the banksters and yet allowed millions to be hung our to dry with underwater mortgages or lost their homes completely. While the ones who created a mess for the rest of us got to go to Las Vegas on bonus money paid for by the taxpayers who were having their life savings wiped out and their 401K's shrunk.

Where were the Democrats when they had the White House with President Obama, the House and Senate as Democrat and failed to give us REAL Universal Health Care. Now we have Hillary that tells us we can not have it most likely never will, the only industrialized Country in the world that doesn't. The same Hillary that tried to get us Universal Health Care, or did she not really try?

So if you can still be a proud Republican or a Democrat after the last 30+ years all I can say is someone is sleeping. There is NO lesser evil than the other, they BOTH screwed the people over BIG time. I'll not play that game anymore, I haven't played that 1% tune for awhile now. I voted for Rocky Anderson of the Justice Party last time, I'll vote for Dr Jill Stein this time, and I would not have hesitated for voting for Bernie as I do vote for people not Party.

Frankly I'm tired of the two Parties that throw out platitudes give me the we can do this like JFK said for the man on the moon, not we need to be pragmatic, we need to take things slow, we can't have Universal Health Care as the Richest Nation in the World, we must save all of our money for more Wars, we can't help the poor and downtrodden, we must still cut Social Security Please Sign This To Reject The Bill That Wants to Cut Social Security No we can't fix our roads, bridges, schools nor pay our teachers a good salary, we can only pay for the Corporate tests that dumb down our children.


SCREWED our Elders.....

Our children......

Made the millions of laborers the enemy.......

And I don't see where either Trump or Hillary nor their VP's are going to help anyone EXCEPT the 1% and to create more wars. I'll not have my hands involved in it. I will proudly Vote Green.

Good luck America we are going to need it.

Past Member (2031)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 5:05 pm
A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Donald Trump. It's really that simple.

JL A (281)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 5:34 pm
To add to what Jae had to say about DWS, for those who do not yet know about the DNC Wikileak, from an email from her progressive opponent Bernie endorsed Tim Canova:
" We know the system is rigged. There’s no doubt about it. Wealthy elites and politicians like our opponent, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, have seen to that.

Thanks to the recent Wikileaks disclosure of 20,000 emails, we now know just how rigged the system has become in the Democratic Party from Wasserman Schultz’s DNC and staff.

We’ll save you the trouble of having to read them all — here are some of the highlights:

Debbie Wasserman Schultz and her DNC staffers mentioned me and my campaign for her House seat dozens of times. They used party resources to monitor our campaign and strategize on Wasserman Schultz’s response, including her response to Bernie Sanders’ endorsement of me. They coordinated a response to the Florida Democratic Party’s decision (at the time) to block our access to the voter file, something they have claimed to have no involvement in.
Debbie Wasserman Schultz tried to censor Mika Brzezinski, MSNBC co-host of “Morning Joe” after Mika called on her to resign from the DNC for her failed leadership and biased use of the DNC to harm the Bernie Sanders campaign. Wasserman Schultz complained directly to MSNBC’s Chuck Todd about the negative coverage and demanded that Mika “apologize” to DWS. Soon after, Chuck Todd did a “softball interview” with Wasserman Schultz.
DNC staffers repeatedly mocked Bernie Sanders and his supporters. Wasserman Schultz called Jeff Weaver, Bernie’s campaign manager, a “damn liar” and “scummy” in emails to DNC staffers. In addition, there is significant evidence that the DNC was coordinating with the Clinton campaign during the primary.

Based on these latest Wikileak revelations, it is more clear than ever that Wasserman Schultz is simply unfit to lead the Democratic Party and I am calling on her to resign from the DNC. She apparently has little regard for freedom of the press or fairness in the election process.

Leaked emails from the Democratic National Committee show that the system is rigged against anti-establishment progressives. Make a contribution to help us win a key battle in the fight to unrig it by retiring Wasserman Schultz."

PS--I am not unsubscribing from the few Bernie endorsed

JL A (281)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 5:36 pm
A vote for Clinton or Trump is a vote to support more h*ll and pain and harm for ordinary people and death and destruction for massive amounts of people around the world

Wilde Thange (10)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 5:38 pm
It isn't that simple, it you are in a Clinton state anyway a vote for alternative shows but doesn't change it. If it is a republican state it doesn't matter. if it is a swing state it is that simple.

Sheryl G (359)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 5:43 pm
If only it were that simple. That is what the 1% want to keep you tied to. A vote for Dr. Jill Stein is a vote for the future for our children and grandchildren.

I've been an Independent voter all my life, sometimes I vote for a Democrat, I gave Obama a chance the first time, he didn't get a second vote from me. There are times one has to stand up for their convictions I see no future in either Trump nor Hillary, one is not better than the other in my view.

You must do what you feel is best as I am doing. This election cycle is the worst I've ever seen, we had two much better Candidate that were running on the Democratic ticket and we get stuck with Hillary. On the Republican side well they were all pretty crappy, Until we get out from under Corporate control we are to get what the 1% wants us to have - she was preordained and he was a master of using the airways, even one of the executives of CBS I believe it was said Trump might not be good for the Country but oh he has made us money.

So if you want to vote for the Corporate pick that is your choice, your vote, I am voting for the Candidate that is there for the People. In hopes one day enough people see that and will throw off the chains that bind to this Corporate Tyranny. I will not throw my vote away nor waste it supporting the Corporate 1%.

Kathy B (106)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 6:18 pm
"A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Donald Trump. It's really that simple." Ya know what, I'm old & I don't care. I've been voting for the lesser of evils for 40+ years & I'm not doing it again. Negative attitudes like this just tick me off. If you don't try something different you'll never know if it works, and what we have now ain't working.

I too have been removing myself from the Dem mailings - with the exception of those that go to my junk mail folder, they don't deserve the time it takes for me to move them, they will be 'emptied', just like all the empty promises they've given us.

Jae A (316)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 6:37 pm
Trump makes money from his investors who almost always end up losing what they invested in his 'deals'...again and again. Using other peoples money is good business sense unless those who invest end up with nothing from their investment and what they invested. Trump has a history of doing just that to his investors. I think he's running out of 'gullible ' high roller investors at long last and running from Prez was probably his last effort to bring new fools into his investment cons. His reputation is know world wide now that so much about his past has been brought to public view due to his running. He seldom if ever has kept his word to those he does 'business deals' with and now he's between a rock and that hard place business wise for him personally. More of the Rep. moderate voters are against him and many of those will vote for Hillary, which might help her make up for some votes that she will not get from Bernie supporters.

I agree with Dandelion in oh so many ways on this issue. We are now between a rock and a hard place when it comes to who to vote for . At times I think of what I've said about so many Republican voters that vote against their own good. Perhaps that is a choice some will make when it comes to our votes this round, while others will simply vote for neither candidate and vote for their personal choice however little chance they have of winning. To me that's not voting against ones own good but simple to say I don't want either 'parties' nomination to be our President. To me voting for either is a vote against my own good. Maybe once things do hit the real bottom for our nation those in power might see the light as to the future from that point forward. If not, they can do whatever without my support period. Sure there is the point about Supreme Court justice appointment but that's always the case as no one can predict who will step down or simply die while they're a Justice. We have dwelt with that for ever ...especially since Dubya established the party of hate/bigotry and greed and had rightwing justices appointed from one end of our nation to the other. If the masses aren't willing to take a stand at some point nothing will change in the future. That is if there is a future after either of the current candidates are finished with their terms.

I have no faith in either parties candidate personally, which I hope I've made clear from my above postings...but if it now :-). I'll hold onto my vote for Hillary for the next election should she win this one , but this around I'm not giving it to what I view as one of the two evils running. Maybe she wins by a small margin and will be aware that the next election could be her last. Meaning she'll do more of what progressives want if she wants a second term. As is, she'll have to prove herself to be a progressive by ending corporate rule by dollars and end the patriot act as well as many other unhealthy Dubya years policies and as many as possible in just four years. I'll not give her one day over that. So unlike it was with Obama, my fear of the alternative isn't going to bring anyone my vote....and right now I fear both candidates. As I said earlier in a post...good luck Hillary your going to need it but the next round you'll need more than luck to get many of our votes. The same goes for Trump and his followers. I don't think that either can win a landslide as both candidates are unpopular with the majority of Americans. Polls have should that again and again. As it has been pointed out..that's the way corporates and the 1% want it to remain...votes against our own good for their betterment. This round their is no mistaking that both candidates will be corporate focused above all. Both parties more or less let that cat out of the bag and a no vote for either can only be a positive vote for our future.

At this age, I am really tired of the fight between having as my choice be the lessor of two evils. For me this time Hillary or Trump will have to make it without my vote. My heart just isn't in it to vote for either, which for me would be voting against my own good. Too old to keep that cycle going for me personally. I care about this nation to much to continue falling into that corporate/1% trap. I've voted for one or the other two evils too many times as it is and for me the buck does stop here.

We somehow survived the Dubya/Cheney administration but not without much hardship for the masses. That cycle must stop and by voting for the lessor of two evils is not the way to accomplish that. Politicians believe that the fear of the other party candidate will keep us all voting against our own good. I am no longer in favor of that regardless of which of the two are if our votes always count which they don't...see the 2000 election for an explanation of that statement. So to me a vote for neither is actually in my best interest in the long run. It's personal now and my vote means too much to me to waist it on either by voting against my own good.

Lenore K (0)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 6:43 pm

Jae A (316)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 6:49 pm
I would suggest that every one check the rules for voting in their state before time is here...some might not be able to vote for someone other than who is on the ticket as a nominee and if not others might just decide not to vote period. It is an option and one that is just as patriotic as voting for someone you really don't want as our President. As I see the Dems in Congress currently I'd say not voting for the majority of them is also patriotic if they're really not representing your will...or the will of the masses who have voted for them in the past. A handful are doing that , like Bernie while others are there in Party name only without doing what they promised their voters.

Time to end the cycle of choice but ya must vote...that to me is B.S. and against everyone's own good...i.m.o. I'm doing the patriotic thing and not voting for either...and I will be very careful when selecting a vote for other Dems on the ticket as well. Those who have sat by and let the rightwing control their voices will also not get my vote, whatever party they represent.

Mitchell D (82)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 7:19 pm
Gene, I am with you.
Despite all the disappointment, all the bullshit, voting for Jill Stein, whom I respect, is just going to be a vote for Rumplethinskin...and if you think Hillary will be bad, you ain't seen 'nothin, yet!
We have SCOTUS to worry about!! Can any of you imagine what kind of things Rumpy would nominate? And if we do not get control of the House, at least, what the what the GOPigs will be able to do to the future of the country?
SO, THIS IS NOT ABOUT HILLARY, OR RUMPY, IN A SENSE, IT IS ABOUT FASHIONING A FUTURE! With Hillary elected, it might be possible to grow some progressive strength, between elections; with Rumpy elected it will be fascist control!

JL A (281)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 8:11 pm
Frank has posted two articles on the contents of the Wikileak of DNC emails:
Bernie Sanders Campaign Chief Says Someone Must Be 'Accountable' for What DNC Emails Show

DNC Treatment of Sanders at Issue in Emails Leaked to Wikileaks

and Diane Russell (of Maine) reported her mini-success (IMO) in the Rules Committee on superdelegates:
" BREAKING NEWS: The Democratic Party's rules committee just passed HISTORIC reform to dramatically reduce the role of superdelegates in the presidential nominating process.

While we weren't able to accomplish everything we wanted--the immediate abolition of all superdelegates--today's vote creates a "unity commission" to reform the presidential nominating rules by binding roughly two-thirds of them to the results of state primaries and caucuses.

Friends, I can't tell you how enormous this is.

When we first started organizing to end superdelegates so many months ago, we were laughed at. We were ignored. Then, when we started gaining support, and Democratic conventions in state after state began voting to end superdelegates, were were attacked.

One of the most senior members of the Democratic National Committee called our efforts "lunacy." A DNC Vice Chair accused me personally of practicing "the worst kind of politics."

The reason they attacked us so viciously is because we were winning. And because of you, my friends and supporters, we were able to keep going, keep building, keep winning.

By today, our movement had grown to the point where we were joined by progressive leaders and organizations including Ben Jealous, Christine Pelosi, Jeff Weaver, Rep. Aaron Regunberg, Robert Reich, Elizabeth Warren, Courage Campaign,, Democracy for America, Credo, Demand Progress, and so many others. We delivered a petition signed by 750,000 people, and I had an op-ed in The New York Times.

We are not done fighting to make our democracy more fair. Indeed, there is so much more work to do not just to end the power of insider elites but to reduce the role of big money, end voter suppression, and check the power of corporate lobbyists.

But today is a day to celebrate, because we just took a huge, historic step towards a more representative democracy.

We did it against all odds, facing the most powerful establishment interests in the Democratic Party. And it could not have happened you.

Again, thank you from the bottom of my heart,

Rep. Diane Russell

P.S. You can read more about our victory here in The Washington Post. "

JL A (281)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 8:38 pm
An action from the Peace Team to Bernie on the TPP given Clinton & Kaine's speech(es) today:
"The Bernie Sanders campaign had taken the position that there would
be no minority reports on the platform at the Democratic convention.

But after the selection of Tim Kaine for Hillary's VP, who until 5
minutes before he got picked was strongly supporting the TPP
(Trans-Pacific Partnership), including being one of the 13 so-called
Democratic yes votes on Fast Track last year in the Senate, it is
more urgent than ever that we have a platform fight on this at the
Democratic convention.

And Bernie needs to hear from you on this NOW.

We Want A TPP Platform Fight NOW:

Tell Bernie to take the gloves off. The language as it stands in the
Democratic platform is totally unacceptable. They flat REJECTED
language that would have expressly given a thumbs down to the TPP.
Yet Clinton, and now suddenly Kaine, SAY they are against it. "

Darren Woolsey (218)
Saturday July 23, 2016, 11:55 pm
310 submissions so far

Reshared the TPP petition. Depressingly low figure.

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 12:53 am
I had no idea that people were catagorized "obstinate, idiosyncratic, foolish and outright stupid for backing Bernie all the way to the convention" -- well, if they are, then it's by others whose opinions don't matter & don't count ...for me, at least!

I refuse to get the 'guilt trip' (a vote for Jill Stein/a vote for Bernie Sanders is a vote FOR D T-Rump') foisted on me! Agree entirely with Terrie, esp. here: "We can throw a wrench in their well-greased plans by NOT voting the way they want and break the illusion of choice."

In any event, what percentage of the US voter population actually votes these days? What's the voter turnout vs absentee/abstention rate? These appalling figures have failed to send any message at all to the two parties running the show & the country. They both still celebrate victories as though they were, even when in some cases only 38 or 40 percent of the voter population actually took part in the election!

So glad to hear my favorite voices of reason here-- Dandelion, JL, Angelika, Judy, Lois Jordan-- and others I either didn't expect to find here (or find so vehement on this twisted election) or simply know less (Roxy, Jae, Gene, Arielle, Randy, Morgan, Animae, Wilde, Kathy, etc): brilliant job here & excellent points. Green stars all around & I think they finally got sent!

I do hope that Alan Grayson gets into the Senate, that's about the only thing that could lift my spirits at this point...

The 5% or 15% advantages for 'third party' candidates means that progressives will have to decide whether to 'throw' their feather weight behind Bernie OR Jill Stein. Given that not all states allow 'write ins' [SEE:] and that Jill Stein will not have succeeded in getting on the ballot in all states, any unified action in favor of one or the other will be extremely difficult! So we are even f__ked even trying to establish a good strategy to put ALL our support behind one or the other, so that at least one might have a chance of getting to 5 (or 15) percent!

Judy C (91)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 1:04 am
There are so many great comments here. As some of you know, I just got out of the hospital, and I'm still somewhat weak. I've looked on this thread a couple of times during the day, and I appreciate the links people provided. I've read some, and will get to the others. I've also signed petitions that were placed here. I guess it's safe to say that just about all of us are truly fed up with our corporate controlled government and our predominantly morally bankrupt leaders. We're sick of leaders who let the banks fleece us, and use the military-industrial complex to commit crimes against humanity in our names, with our tax dollars. We're sick of growing inequality, with people's needs are not met while others hoard wealth that they couldn't possibly spend in several lifetimes. I could go on, but I'd probably better get some sleep.

BTW, green stars have not been working for me correctly; at least they weren't earlier. You guys deserve many of them!

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 1:16 am
JL pretty much expresses everything I feel on these issues, eg. Killary "doesn't want or need the support of progressives nor have any intention of pushing for any policy that is fundamentally progressive." & "A vote for Clinton or Trump is a vote to support more h*ll and pain and harm for ordinary people and death and destruction for massive amounts of people around the world." I just didn't know they were golfing buddies & attended each other's family weddings. [Excuse me while I go puke...] Thanks for all the links, too, JL!

I forgot to "Thank(s) Judy for this post that tells it as it is rather than as the corporate neocon media would prefer to sell it."

Can't agree with Jae on one thing he said: "Fact is Hillary is the best the left has to offer..."
The 'LEFT'? What 'left' is that?? That's no left in my book! No way such a corporate crony, pro-Monsanto & pro-Latin America regime change candidate could possibly come from or represent 'the left.'
Bernie was the left, and we've all seen how he was dealt with!

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 1:37 am
"Tim Kaine Has a Troubling Record on Labor Issues"! -
“Kaine did meet with union leaders in Madison. But he supported Virginia’s right-to-work laws during his gubernatorial campaign and his four years in office. Even the group that seeks to expand these laws [the National Right to Work Foundation] concedes Kaine did few things that troubled them.”
--John Nichols, The Nation


"What the Democratic Party Platform Tells Us About Where We Are on War" - "It shows the limits of party politics—and the necessity of social movements to challenge those limits."

Phyllis Bennis, The Nation

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 1:42 am
Trump’s ghostwriter: he's a sociopath who, if elected president, could end civilization @

Sheryl G (359)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 5:55 am
You got that Lucy, what "left" is LEFT? The Democrats are so far Right they'd be Right of Dwight D Eisenhower.

Mitchell: "We have SCOTUS to worry about!!" Sorry Mitchell that doesn't cut it for me either. Obama placed out Merrick Garland, a pick that was the most Conservative in the entire Democratic history, a pick that even Fox News approved of! Come on - we can't say if we have a Democrat we'll get a good Supreme Court selection.

Merrick Garland was an approved selection from the Republicans in the past. Judge Garland joined a decision upholding a policy at Guantánamo that allowed guards to probe the genitals of detainees seeking to meet with their lawyers.

He joined ruling from a nine-judge panel that allowed unlimited contributions to super PACs. Garland proved unwilling to overrule precedents like Citizens United or the Shelby County decision gutting much of the Voting Rights Act.

There really isn't much left of the Democratic Party anymore except some lip service and a few areas in the social context. On the Federal level they haven't protected a Woman's Right to choose, that must be fought at the State level as the Republicans have been axing away at women's rights, so the down ticket is very important to work on.

Many who study foreign affairs deeply feel that there is more reason to be alarmed with Hillary as she has a proven past in the White House than Donald Trump. Look at who all the Republican neocons are flocking to, Hillary Clinton. The same neocons that worked closely with Reagan and the Bush Administration many who gave us the Iraq War.

Truly Mitchell at the White House level I do not see much difference in the two Candidates not enough to throw my vote to either of them. I do see a MAJOR difference in what I could of obtained from Bernie and Jill Stein, so unless a miracle happens at the Convention and we get Bernie I'm going with Dr. Jill Stein. That is where I can make my vote count the best.

As with Jae - SHOW me. If Hillary surprises me and becomes the progressive she claimed in the debates I'll consider her the next round, but she doesn't get my vote this time. I'm tired of the promises and watch as a Democrat in the White House surrounds himself with the same people the Republicans did. If I'm going to vote Republican might as well just vote Republican - but as I can not do that I'll go GREEN.

Kathy B (106)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 6:20 am
During one of the debates Shillary defined Progressive as making progress - my jaw dropped, what a lame answer. I bet if 10 people on this thread were asked to define progress there would be 10 different answers.

Sheryl G (359)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 6:27 am
Kind of like Hillary trying to be "one of the people" and didn't know how to use the subway card. Or how she wore a $12,495 Giorgio Armani coat during which she addressed the topic of income inequality. Bernie went around in his $99.00 suits. She hasn't a clue - she just parroted what Bernie was saying because she saw him gaining crowds - he understood what he was saying - he believes in it - she just said the words because it is what would get her into the White House.

Then on the other side we have a Billionaire that "understands" us - cough cough. You know folks there is a time in history when you just have to stop propping those people up. There are many 3rd Parties to choose from, stop supporting that which is literally killing us and others across the world.

Sheryl G (359)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 6:42 am
JL A wanted to say thanks for that petition link which I'll add as a hyperlink here Now that the Democratic presidential nominee has selected ANOTHER strong TPP supporter for VP who suddenly is saying the exact opposite we have no choice but to make this a platform fight The Democratic party platform MUST expressly reject the TPP

Even Trump has said he is AGAINST the TPP. Again I say, who is worse. If TPP is passed there goes what bit of democracy you have existing.

Darren Woolsey (218)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 6:44 am
Yeah, what you've got with the Democrats, is what we had with New Labour in the 1990s/2000s, essentially right-wingers in drag.

Angelika R (143)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 6:48 am
Wish I could fill out and send that Utalk survey..without lying..sigh * there MUST be a fight, no question!

Sheryl G (359)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 8:34 am
Says Patrick Murphy has "taken more money from Wall Street than any other member of Congress other than the speaker and the majority leader."
— Alan Grayson on Thursday, June 30th, 2016 in an interview with the "Tampa Bay Times" editorial board

Well our Progressive Alan Grayson has rattled the Democrats in drag as Darren calls them, so some of the Corporatist are now backing Patrick Murphy. Just saw an ad that Obama and Joe Biden are backing him against Alan Grayson. See how they go the ones protecting the Corporate.

Murphy received $1.41 million from the "finance, insurance and real estate" sector in the 2016 election cycle. That amount placed Murphy third among all members of the House, with Speaker Paul Ryan at No. 1 with nearly $2 million, and Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., at No. 2 with $1.58 million.

So we have two Democrats running to replace Marco Rubio the Tea Bagger that held the Senate seat in Florida, but that oh so progressive Democrat Party I keep hearing about is backing not the Progressive but one who is in the Corporate till. Oh and President Obama is tied at the Hillary Clinton hip, you know what can I say, the Established Democrats that are connected to Wall Street do not want to lose power. They all CLAIM they want to help the "little guy" reign in all that has been going on - but the system is working for them.

They don't want real change, Hillary has said, the status quo, slowly go, they want to keep things the same, toss the 99% out a few breadcrumbs, and keep the majority of the people voting for them while BOTH of the Parties point to each other as being the problem when BOTH Parties are playing the same game and ARE the problem.

As long as DC only has a few voices crying in the wind, like Bernie Sanders, like a Dennis Kucinich of whom they moved along by redistricting him, like an Elizabeth Warren, if the voices are few and far in between it can be ignored. So Alan Grayson a real progressive also has the Established Democrats going against him.

JL A (281)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 8:59 am
Murphy was registered GOP until shortly before he announced his first run for office--a DINO who broke ranks to vote with the GOP on several major issues...

for those who do not understand what neocon means:

Sheryl G (359)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 9:31 am
See how it's done, if the Republicans can't defeat you they become a Democrat. The Democrats have moved so far right that the Republicans can feel right at home now becoming a Democrat. Remember Hillary was a Republican too, a Goldwater girl no less.

Sheryl G (359)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 9:52 am
Oh yes, thanks JL A for leaving the last link.

JL A (281)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 10:08 am
Related petition on VP:

"Hillary Clinton has chosen Virginia Senator Tim Kaine as her running mate. As a Senator, Kaine has been adamant that the Obama Administration comply with the Constitution and the War Powers Resolution in undertaking military action in Syria, by getting an authorization for the use of military force from Congress. [1]

Michele Flournoy, whom some believe to be Hillary Clinton's most likely nominee for Secretary of Defense, has advocated the direct use of U.S. troops to bring about regime change in Syria. [2] But so far Flournoy hasn't clarified whether she believes that President Clinton would need an authorization for the use of military force from Congress to carry out Flournoy's plan.

Urge Kaine to pledge to keep insisting as Vice-President that the President comply with the War Powers Resolution by signing our petition at MoveOn."

JL A (281)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 10:39 am

Robert Reich Is Furious with Debbie Wasserman Schultz After Alleged Email Leak: ‘Fire Her Now’
The emails are being released from Wikileaks after the party’s servers were hacked.

Wilde Thange (10)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 12:06 pm
It doesn't pay to get too worked up, the CIA and other intelligence organization plus MIC think thanks always win, we are talking who gets to be the window dressing and cheerleader. Congress gets to sell the loopholes to its legislation and the SCOTUS is the democracy religious council.

Jae A (316)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 1:02 pm
When I said that Hillary is the best the 'left' has to offer I meant that as in...she's the Dem party name only :-). She is actually the est that the GOP has to offer. My error for not working that better.

For Me it's still Bernie and I will write his name in regardless if counted or not . He's been a champion of the people for a very long time now and I imagine he'll keep that focus after the election. Jill Stein is probably a nice person but she not been the champion of the people where it Congress . If not for Bernie I might have consider her as an alternative but since Bernie has our following I feel that the more of us who vote for him the better showing he has your face ta say :-). I also think that every Bernie supporter should write his name in when possible. He has a huge following and if we all do , that should be a big slap in Hillary's face.

DWS... seems it is official , at long last, gone from the DNC. I was not wanting to see her face much less here her voice during the convention. this is extra good news for me. Sooo glad the emails were leaked ! Hillary better step up her 'act ' for sure now.

Lawsy, how did our system get so screwed up...big mess started with Dubya in the division of're either with us or against crap over a war built on lies never went away, just shifted to other division.

Ok, I've been very wordy in my comments...that haven't been around for a long time...I suppose kicked that in...well sort of due to that but there's lots to say about all the aspects of this election.

Jae A (316)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 1:15 pm
Trump is already all over Kaine as Hillary's VP pick in that he's owned by big banks...which he is so Trump has a real A for his rants now....what a way to go Killary !

As for those who say 'to those who are still mad that Bernie isn't the nominee' I say...not made , upset but what I am made about is another election rig'd so that they only two choics are between two evils..and that's why I am doing what I believe is patriotic, as I care about the nation as much as any , and not voting for either 'evil' for a change is what I feel best for the country. That cycle of two evils to choose from has to stop and for me it stops this election !

The 'shame/guilt' lies, to me, in those who will vote for Hillary or Trump ! Neither will be good for the general population of Americans and that translates as.. both are bad for the nation and the majority of our citizens and voting for either of them would be unpatriotic as well as hypercritical of those who really don't believe either are worthy of the Presidency...i.m.o.. As the old saying word is my bond, and my bond is for Bernie, not either of the two major party evils.

Jae A (316)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 1:26 pm
Oh so many errors above in my comment I am not sure how to correct them all. Main one is I typed 'made' when I meant mad. in my second paragraph. Others are a 'y' added to the word 'the' and so forth. I'll try and be more careful in future but I'm not one to edit as being dyslexic it isn't easy and seldom works out when I do..not until after it's posted and I re-read things..........not idea why that is but it is what it is. Hope all can figure out easily what the errors really meant to say/spell. ..... sigh.

Sheryl G (359)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 1:43 pm
Not sure how they do it in each State, but a write in is handled differently depending on where one lives. If the State doesn't honor a write in, or if the Candidate didn't process the correct papers the write in vote is tossed out and I don't believe it is shown anywhere. So it may give a good feeling, and I feel is better than voting for the two lesser than evils depending on if you fly the red or blue flag.

The Green Party is on our ballots in Florida and therefore I will try to build up that Party in hopes that they will have a stronger showing. Right after Bernie announced he'd endorse Hillary there was a BIG uptick in the Green Party numbers and that was a signal to the Democrats that their coronation wasn't going over well with everyone.

There are some die hard Party supporters that will stay with Party, there are some who honestly want to see Hillary elected, but I'm not either of them so she'll not get my vote, I was registered with the Dem's for Bernie, otherwise I'm a registered Independent.

Oh yes, bye bye bye DWS glad to see you go and if Tim Canova wins her House seat that will be another time worth cheering over.

Jae A (316)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 2:17 pm
Not positive but I think that Donna Brazille will be replacing the beeeotch DWS ...and that's worth cheering for i.m.o.

It is a serious election process flaw that not all states allow write-in's on ballots . Another protection set in place so that the 'establishment' leaders are almost sure they will be the ones who pick the winners.

If all states did allow write in votes and all of Bernie Sanders supporters were to write his name in , the splitting of Rep votes due to Donald and the splitting of votes due to Hillary, he'd probably win as a write in Candidate...hands down , so ta say :-).. Both Trump and Hillary are seeking Bernie votes and if no of his vote for either of that would not only be a super shock to both of them but a wake up call to the 'system' in general. The establishment is counting on most of Bernie voters to vote for Hillary or even some for Trump but that's a super big stretch in my opinion. If neither got Bernie'...via staying united for Bernie, who knows what the outcome might be...if nothing else...a wake up call for the two major parties and a super wake up for Hillary should she win. She'd know her support in the next election would be marginal at best and she'd have to learn the meaning of 'progressive ' politics in order to be elected again.

Bottom line I think for people in ol radicalized Ted Cruz you conscience not the will of the two party establishment...I'll add...doing so IS the PATRIOTIC thing to do.

We may never be up to a physical revolution but an election one....we might be surprised how effected it will be for future elections...

Angelika R (143)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 2:51 pm
CNN said a while ago DWS announced she'll resign but AFTER the convention where she will nevertheless SPEAK i think tomorrow, they said. Should result in a YUUUGE BOOOOH.

JL A (281)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 3:45 pm
The DNC apparently was allowed to review and edit news announcements of her resignation, too...sigh

Judy C (91)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 3:54 pm
Here's some good news about the resignation:

JL A (281)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 4:12 pm
What Tulsi said in her email on super delegates:
" Bernie Sanders always said his campaign was about more than him — it was about millions of people coming together to challenge an establishment that was more interested in serving the interests of corporations and lobbyists.

Yesterday, we won an important victory in this fight when the Democratic Party accepted major reforms to the superdelegate process.

Now, we have guaranteed that the vast majority of superdelegates will be required to cast their votes at the convention based on how their state voted.

This compromise helps to make our presidential nominating contest more democratic. In addition, the party will be actively encouraging open primaries and same-day party registration, like what we have in Hawaii.

It was a long, hard fight, but we can be proud that the grassroots have won a qualified victory in the fight to create a Democratic Party that is stronger and fairer. "

JL A (281)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 6:07 pm
Why Can’t Hillary Stop Fudging the Truth?

Email-gate is only the latest instance in a 25-year habit of dissembling.

JL A (281)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 6:47 pm
Perhaps we are lucky she didn't choose Warren:
How Progressive is Elizabeth Warren?

America's second favorite Senator has been campaigning for Hillary Clinton for weeks now after having said almost nothing about Bernie Sanders, which has some voters asking where her allegiance really lies

Jae A (316)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 7:10 pm
I agree about Elizabeth as that would have surely 'tarnished' her should she run for the Presidency or VP in the future.

My latest eeeeeeeeeeeeeeer is that the crooked/unethical beeeotch DWS says she'll resign as soon as the convention is over....WT you know what. She should step down before the convention even starts. How she can show her face for even a moment at this convention is beyond my comprehension. Apparently she is more arrogant than most of us thought. I hope they boooo her from the moment she step onto the stage. She's a disgrace to the Party period !

JL A (281)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 7:16 pm
apparently she will not preside nor give more than a welcome and goodbye brief speech:

Kathy B (106)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 7:32 pm
And Shillary immediately hires her for her campaign. If that isn't sending the wrong message I don't know what does.

JL A (281)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 7:40 pm
Kathy, it may include the message that Clinton expects Canova to beat DWS...

JL A (281)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 8:16 pm
If you missed the class action lawsuit against DWS that Jae posted about and donated a $1 or more to Bernie, you can still get the information by emailing:
Elizabeth Lee Beck
and telling them you believe you are eligible for the suit.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday July 24, 2016, 11:53 pm

I'll earmark this thread to read through properly tonight - for now an avalanche of stars to Terrie *******************************************************

And while at it ... this is what we look at if K$$illary Rotten Clinton gets elected: Hillary Clinton: A Threat to All Humanity.

I love the preps for Philly and ... yes ... there's still Dr. Jill Stein - ;-)!!!

Jae A (316)
Monday July 25, 2016, 1:29 am
My current thoughts about Kaine, now that I've read and heard more about him... I think he's a fairly decent stand up sort of todays 'politician'. Other than for his support, for Big Banks...his latest efforts are to try and get regulations loosened for the banking industry....which most of us know how that would work out for the 'common person', I rather see him become President instead of Hillary. He does have a lot of 'public service' years under his belt unlike Hillary who's always just been a politician As I posted on another thread, 'I mean if we're going to elect a moderate Republican I would prefer it be him than Hillary.'

Capital One , I think it is, has their main offices in his state so I kind of understand his banking connection but not to the degree of deregulating more of their rules...which would be for the entire corrupt banking institution that took us to our knees via Bush / Cheney.

Anyway, I'm still not a fan the Dem party electing a moderate Republican in a Dem ta say, as the likes of Hillary...who will not get my vote. I vote for people I believe deserve and earn it....not that just happen to be the only party choice over than of someone I dislike just as much or more , like that of Trump.

Unusual election for sure... Republican party is no more, it's now the Trump Party and the Dem party has been taken over by Republican moderates. Folks the only end results I see for the future is more or ever a bigger screwing of the middle / working class of American citizens of the past, by either Trump or Hillary.

Angelika R (143)
Monday July 25, 2016, 2:50 am
I can't wait to see that zionist beetch leave and I do hope there were enough beans consumed to suffice for a major stink for her as well, no matter how short her Hi-and-bye appearance may be!
Any updates about that fart-in ? It needs to start tonight!

Sheryl G (359)
Monday July 25, 2016, 5:44 am
Answer to your question Angelika Cheri Honkala with the Poor People Economic Human Rights Campaign is gathering cases of donated beans in her office She plans to feed them to protesters on the last night of the convention when Hillary Clinton accepts her party’s nomination

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 6:17 am
Robert Reich: Does Hillary Get It?
Tim Kaine is as vanilla middle as you can get.

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 6:21 am

Chaotic Start to DNC, As Wasserman-Shultz Resigns in Disgrace, Only to be Elevated by Clinton to Key Campaign Role
At first Sanders is vindicated by e-mail hack, and DNC apology; but Hillary turns the tables.

Angelika R (143)
Monday July 25, 2016, 6:58 am
Thanks Sheryl and Judi. DWS and HRC opponents don't actually need to rely on Honkala's bean chow event, too late then. How about just taking some raw beans for THROWING ! Tonight!' ;-)

It figured that Mook and the Clinton campaign preferred to dig out the old WaPo's story about some alleged Russian hacks, doing that to deflect and distract from the shameful scandal. I already stated that somewhere on this or another thread.. All BS.
If DWS is touring all 50 states I hope she'll be greeted as she deserves! Come to think of it, actually, this also should apply to the president... sad but true.
The article quoted him as "..HAD my back"-does she still? He didn't say..but should!

And what alternet writes there regarding Trump and NATO, here in Europe in left circles that has LONG been identified as the ONLY and MAIN reason for the hype and hysteria about a Trump perspective: the plain FEAR of not being able to conduct the US perpetual war the unquestioned way they could for decades and intend to continue so! That is the truth! Without US-led NATO there would be PEACE on earth!

Sheryl G (359)
Monday July 25, 2016, 9:07 am
From within the article link JL A posted "The rapid turnaround, first a humiliating resignation and then a lightning rehabilitation, speaks volumes about rewarding loyalty at the top of Democratic Party circles"

Well as Dr. Cornel West said when he wouldn't sign his name to the farce of a Democratic Platform, that is not how I roll.......

Well it is all being played out before the eyes of anyone that is paying at all attention.......How the Bought and Paid for by the 1% Democrats roll.......

To them it's like some kind of a game they have to do before the dust settles. The Clintons attending The Trumps events, they go to the same "social scenes" they all know each other - they all protect each other.
They have each other's back, it is just the prize of whose name will go down in the history books and the mugshot shown on the list of Presidents.

These Billionaires and Multimillionaires with their lapdogs, sheepdogs, and boot lickers that surround them don't care two hoots about us or anyone outside this Country.

Well Angelika, on what you wrote about Trump, there is a reason that the Reagan and Bush neocons are all flocking to support Hillary rather than Trump. There is a reason why the experts in Foreign Affairs are much more concerned about Hillary than Trump. She has a proven track record and the neocons know where it is she will go - no so much on Trump. He has actually said some things that make sense as you point out on Foreign Affairs, and he is CLEARLY stating he will not support the TPP - which I think Hillary will sign in with no hesitation.

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 9:21 am
Clinton Running Mate Tim Kaine Supported TPP, Offshore Drilling and Anti-Union, Right-to-Work Measures

and A legacy or two Clinton apparently intends to continue:
President Obama's Lethal Climate Legacy

Sheryl G (359)
Monday July 25, 2016, 9:31 am
lol..oh yes, let us blame the Russians - is so much easier than cleaning up our own acts and backyards here in the USA.

Always blame someone, blame the Muslims, blame the Mexicans, blame the Bernie supporters, blame the poor for the fact they are poor in a rigged system, blame the unemployed, blame the gays, blame the African Americans for getting themselves shot so often, blame everyone and any place but the correct place to lay the blame.

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 9:38 am
And facts they are ignoring--their base is more liberal than in the past:

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 10:04 am
UN: Children comprise one-third of civilian casualties in Afghanistan
Afghanistan civilian casualties rose 4% in the first six months of this year, to 1,601 killed and 3,565 wounded, says the United Nations mission in Afghanistan. More than 1,500 children were killed or injured, an increase of 18% from the same period in 2015.

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 10:09 am
Stop with the myths debunked by snopes--you are appearing to be an uninformed broken record type troll.
I recognized Bill was flawed, did not vote for him and wrote my Congress members routinely to oppose his bad ideas==what did you do?

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 10:21 am
Burlington, Vermont Becomes First U.S. City to Run On 100% Renewable Electricity


The unemployment rate in Vermont, Vermont, is 3.70%, with job growth of 0.35%. Future job growth over the next ten years is predicted to be 37.00%.

Vermont, Vermont Taxes
Vermont, Vermont,sales tax rate is 6.00%. Income tax is 3.55%.
Vermont, Vermont Income and Salaries

The income per capita is $28,846, which includes all adults and children. The median household income is $54,168.

Accomplishments that go with Sanders actions that most value more than spurious critiques of satires

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 10:29 am
PS by 1972 I had helped start my city's first recycling program--what had you accomplished?

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 10:42 am
Also, I was concurrently attending legislative committee hearings on legislation with environmental impacts to ascertain votes to hold legislators accountable when they said they were voting one way and voted another, which created the extra pressure needed and led to passage of legislation requiring all committee votes to be public record by 1973.

Bernie was creating the foundations that make VT an environmental leader in those years (e.g., no billboards allowed which is pretty rare)...

Bill Clinton is responsible for the rust belt economic harms via NAFTA, the shredded safety net reversing our progress on poverty with his welfare reform, and the massive inequities and economic drain and human rights violations of our criminal justice system and her policies do less than a bandaid to reverse the problems--the opposite of progressive for those who know what the word means (she apparently doesn't since she public defined it as making progress without regard to what the target is).

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 10:44 am
No clue where you view recycling to mean logging and biomass...please try to connect the dots in your convoluted thinking...I do know that is Clinton's definition akin to her views on clean fracking...

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 11:03 am
Clinton on environment, for example:

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 11:07 am
logging out side of VT that would've happened anyhow to reduce waste? Logging as a part of healthy forest management ridding the forest of diseased trees? I saw the trees last year that needed to be logged to save the other trees--very common practice that is in line with sustainable forests...happens in CA, WA and OR, too--otherwise the forest would be wiped out in a few years

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 11:15 am
I am working with super delegates and progressives to pressure her into representing us and preventing all of her failed and bad ideas from having Congressional support--supporting her or trolling for her only tells her she can ignore environmental and progressive issues and side with corporations instead IMO

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 11:29 am
Video of the peace and environmental protests at the DNC:

Darren Woolsey (218)
Monday July 25, 2016, 12:59 pm
Nyack's stupidity reaches new levels of incredulousness:

READ THIS, kiddo:

Hillary Clinton Flunks Animal Rights And Environmental Issues
by ARC
Saturday May 21st, 2016 12:48 PM
More hawkish even than Obama, Clinton has approved the bombing of animals as well as people in the 7 illegal and immoral wars he is waging now

I Issues Re Animals

1. James Blair of Tyson Foods (one of the nation's biggest animal slaughter operations) and insider trading helped H Clinton turn $ 1000 into $100,000. She invested in cattle futures. Those cows had no future.

2. Hillary and Bill Clinton have had a special relationship until his death in 2011 with Don Tyson, whose company has killed tens of billions of cows and pigs and trillions of chickens after a life of suffering in hideous factory farms. The Clintons have a longstanding relationship with John Tyson, Chairman of Tyson Foods.

3. Hillary Clinton was for a time on the WalMart board, one of the world's biggest killers of mammals, birds, fishes.

4. Hillary Clinton voted for the immoral Iraq war the prosecution of which has murdered hundreds of billions of birds and mammals, burned to death by bombs, crushed by tanks, seized and killed for food etc and which has added trillions to the US debt.

5. As Secretary of State Hillary Clinton promoted the 7 illegal wars, bombing campaigns and drone assassinations of the Obama administration in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan and Somalia, with untold billions of animal deaths.

6. Hillary Clinton voted for NAFTA, which gave countries with less humane legislation easier access to the US market.

7. Until Bernie Sanders' critical mass of opposition, Clinton was in favor of the Keystone Pipeline which like nearly all oil pipelines destroys fragile animal habitats, kills animals with oil spills, crushes them under heavy vehicle

8. Clinton has hired a Monsanto person for her campaign. Monsanto has killed mammals, birds, bees and other insects in a variety of ways

9. Clinton is tied to Goldman Sachs through her son in law's hedge fund. Sanders wants her to release the text of her remarks to Goldman Sachs, which paid her $225,000 for her speaking engagement. Politico article: "She sounded more like a Goldman Sachs managing director." Goldman Sachs is invested in animal slaughter, environmental destruction, war profiteering etc and was a major factor in plunging Greece, Spain and other countries into massive debt through pricegouging interest. She, Ted Cruz whose wife has a 6 figure salary with Goldman Sachs, and John Kasich, who lost hundreds of billions for Ohio pension funds when he was an executive with Lehman Brothers, are the 3 candidates of the duopoly most tied to Wall Street.

10. At the State Department, Hillary Clinton gave an award to Heifer International, the butcher industry's corporation which separates terrified baby animals from their mothers and sends them to lives of slavery and slaughter overseas, thereby spreading disease to humans, global heating and freezing, deforestation, and world hunger.

11. Clinton has supported fracking around the world. Poisonous fracking water chemical stews have killed millions of animals, from cows, sheep and other mammals to birds, reptiles, fishes etc. not only from water poisons but from fires caused by deforestation frackers who interfere with the rain cycle and massive earthquakes such as an 8 point record breaker for Canada in Alberta.

12. Because Hillary Clinton is on record requiring forced vaccination of children against parents' wishes, (against choice), it follows that she favors the animal research (torture of animals called vivisection) which develops the vaccines.

II The Environment

Hillary's fracking promotion through the State Department has harmed the planet.

Fracking made Oklahoma the earthquake capital of the world. Government inaction on fracking has caused 800 earthquakes in the Youngstown Ohio area alone. It causes turned on water faucets to burst into flame. It deforests fragile environments. It sends a poisonous stew of fracking chemicals into the ground. They end up everywhere in the watershed, killing people, cows, sheep, other mammals, birds, frogs etc.

The movie Promised Land with Matt Damon exposes the criminal techniques of fracking companies, sometimes owned by huge natural gas companies.

Hillary Clinton supported offshore drilling, supported the Keystone Pipeline for a long time, has worked at the State Department in support of 7 illegal immoral wars and the bombing which destroys fragile environments.

CLINTON IS AN ANIMAL KILLER. . . . You're STILL BLINDLY in her camp. . .?

Jae A (316)
Monday July 25, 2016, 1:07 pm
Someone please post a link to where there is a video of Bernie saying he thinks women enjoy being raped .
Not just that 'fantasies' about it...which in reality there are those that do...but by the person they visualize not those who might actually rape someone. It's a fetish, both men and women which I've personally had both sexes tell me it is one of their fantasies...but as I said, not just any ol random rapist, so ta say. Anyway I would appreciate the link to where he said, not where someone else is 'reported to say he said it etc... so can decide for myself if he was talking about sexuality of women in modern time, not being so secretive etc. about their fantasies/desires etc. , but where he makes one believe he is saying it as a serious desire by any ol random, non fantasy, rapist.

I am not for any industry that makes a profit from national forest or any other public lands unless those using/selling it for profit pay a fair price for whatever it is. Even then it must be limited.

Aside from the 'rapist' story I am still very much against Hillary as our President. She has not ethics, DWS, helped to prove that to us. If Clinton was willing to let DWS take the route she did and or wanted with her attempt to stop Bernie voters from showing up to vote after the Ca. primary... that in reality was still in count , causing many after the announcement that she had the numbers before she really did, to not show in the following states to vote due to Clinton already having the final votes/delegates to take Ca., ....which she did not at the time 'the leak' spread through the media....thanks to her unethical side kick DWS.

Seeing that Hillary was ok with DWS siding with her as 'DNC chair person' and according to reports , of which I'm still looking for, now has DWS on here campaign payroll even with the leak about DWS emails. What a slap in the faces of Bernie supporters....but Hillary still wants their votes....I THINK NOT ! If Trump got to where he is without the votes of those who ran against him then Hillary should be able to do the same....acquire the votes to be President on her on with just her supporters. That is the way it should be anyway. People have been bullied into voting for someone they don't want for too long. Reality is each candidate must earn their own support and votes ... and for me personally, Hillary has not done that.

If she did put DWS on her payroll after all that DWS has done unethically/against DNC rules, and Hillary hasn't spoken out against what DWS did....but instead plans to put her on her campaign payroll... then just think of the payback Hillary will do for the insurance companies, the pharmaceutical industry, and her buds the bankers...and on and on...that have financed her campaign.


Jae A (316)
Monday July 25, 2016, 1:26 pm
...and yes... there is the big negative that Hillary is in fact a big time supporter of Monsanto , who I personally see as a bigger threat to the world than terrorism....for he who controls the worlds food supply controls the world. For that reason alone, without all others Clinton does not deserve my vote and those of other progressives.

Side note, since this seems to be the most active thread going and contains many issues :-),...why are there not more regulars especially, posting political it for the same reason I gave up on doing so after my last few efforts, some time ago, ended in an hour or so of frustration after having no luck in the system posting them ?...or ? Lots of topics daily to be had so just curious as why the small number of new articles being posted ....

I am still working and time is limited for me currently but I am wanting to make more time for care2 due to the election taking place.... but at this time I am not taking time to post articles, in part due to the bad experiences of trying to do so in the past...months and months ago..which I hope is no longer the case... so that when I do have more time I can also make that effort again.

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 1:44 pm
"One way to read the essay is that Sanders was doing (in a supremely ham-handed way) what journalists do every day: draw the reader in with an attention-getting lede, then get to the meat of the article in the middle." And the meat was about the changing gender roles in society.

Those who troll for her will never change her mind because they are freely doing what she's paying people to do for her.

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 2:02 pm
Me, I'm still following her efforts to fight the two judges whose review of the evidence in their FOIA cases, have called her for depositions--and I believe I read both judges were DEM appointments...

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 2:04 pm
And I read yesterday and today that the UN wants the climate treaty affirmed and signed in Sept. now while it is still Obama (not risking either of these presumed candidates to honor it perhaps)

Sheryl G (359)
Monday July 25, 2016, 2:22 pm
Nyack "But if you want to sit there in vinegar and piss- be my guest- it is not my cup of tea- and slinging mud is not how I want to conduct my life."

Omg.....rolling on the floor laughing hysterically. You, my dear, are truly living in an alternate reality.

Wow, look at what took place while I was away. Amazing, simply amazing.......the one who places out the most vinegar on the table can't even grasp the concept that they are doing exactly that. lol

Darren Woolsey (218)
Monday July 25, 2016, 2:52 pm
Nyack "But if you want to sit there in vinegar and piss- be my guest- it is not my cup of tea- and slinging mud is not how I want to conduct my life."

Congratulations and welcome to the life you don't want to live then, Nyack, 'cause that's exactly what you've been doing, and continue to do.

Jae A (316)
Monday July 25, 2016, 3:18 pm
Sharing FACTS about Hillary is not mud slinging !!!!

Facts are she's In bed, being polite with the wording.... big time with wall streets Banking/financial system, Big Pharmacy, Insurance companies, and worst of all Monsanto...just about all of the things that keep the middle class and poor struggling to make ends meet.....Just THESE FACTS alone show, that for me, she doesn't deserve the votes of progressive much less middle of the road Liberals....i.m.o.

Why it is people keep discussing the facts about Hillary Nyack is to make sure that as many people possible are well informed as to the FACTS about her before voting day.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Monday July 25, 2016, 3:45 pm

JL A, Dandelion, Darren, Jae - and many more - thanks for your outstanding and valuable comments and info therein.

Jae - to dwell for a moment on your comment further up of Sunday July 24, 2016, 2:17 pm ... What IF the unthinkable (but very much hoped for by me) would happen and Bernie Sanders would get the absolute majority of all votes cast? Would the clear will of the people be ignored and the one who comes in as second be the new US President?

If memory serves me right this would be a precedence or did this ever happen before?

Another scenario: IF for a reason or another Killary Clinton would drop out (or being doped out) of the "race" who would be the new Dem candidate? Would they have to start allover again or would it be by default Bernie Sanders? Just curious.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Monday July 25, 2016, 3:47 pm

Ops - sorry for the typo or is it a Freudian slip?

I meant to write "IF for a reason or another Killary Clinton would drop out (or being dropped out) of the "race" ... although at time she looks and behaves as if she's doped ... ;-).

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Monday July 25, 2016, 3:53 pm

My parents motivated us always with the phrase "Knowledge is Power" ... and we went on studying. The same applies on an even higher level if it comes to voting/choosing the new President of the USofA considering the worldwide power that this government has and the willingness, readiness and ability to exercise this power.

I believe we all owe it at least to ourselves (and future generations) to inform ourselves the best possible BEFORE election day - as Jae states further up. Anything else is gross negligence IMO.

Thanks to all of you for helping informing "the foreigner" ;-)

Darren Woolsey (218)
Monday July 25, 2016, 3:55 pm
Well, now there's a delicious question to ask a Hedge Fund Manager with several MILLION to spend, whether Clinton would retire in favour of Bernie, and I WOULD go down that route, if I had access to that crazy kind of money.

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 4:45 pm
Eleonora, historically in the DEM party it took up to more than 100 votes before there was a nominee and often the nominee was someone who had not even campaigned before the convention. For many of those years, it was required to get two-thirds of the votes and for many years states were winner take all. In the full context of history, Clinton has the lowest margin of delegates from voters ever and the original intent was for super delegates to prevent such a candidate from winning.
However, given the way DWS has been running the Party, all such elements might be expected to be irrelevant to those with power.

Jae A (316)
Monday July 25, 2016, 5:04 pm
Eleonora , JLA, and Darren...I'm out of green stars for the day for all three of you, and others, but I can send each of you a big ol air-hug !

Kathy B (106)
Monday July 25, 2016, 5:06 pm
Damn, stars aren't working again - or is it some more? Darren, that was a brilliant post regarding the animals. Thank you for that.

And, Nyack, what is with someone who isn't even voting ragging on anyone about what they have or have not done?

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 5:15 pm
I will quote one of the democratic leaders (I think this time it was directed at Trump)--you are welcome to your own opinion, but not your own (supposed) is a common problem with the GOP expressing themselves in recent years and IMO is disruptive and disrespectful to all who are subjected to it

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 5:40 pm
He wrote an essay on the changing gender roles in that period of history and used examples of some fantasies men and women might have that went with some publications he mentioned right after it--the one quote taken out of the context and main content of the essay is an intentional misrepresentation IMO and what all my professors would have said had I included such an unrepresentative quote in any paper I ever turned in.

Judy C (91)
Monday July 25, 2016, 5:56 pm
Buh-bye Debbie, don't let the door hit ya in the ass!

I hope that anyone who cares about animals reads Darren's post above.

There are so many excellent comments here. Thanks to all who shared relevant links. I signed any petitions including JL's MoveOn one about Kaine, Clinton, and regime change in Syria. I inserted the following comment: "Mr. Kaine, Hillary Clinton considers many laws to be optional for her. Please insist that she comply with the War Powers resolution with regard to military action in Syria." Clinton seems to love regime change. Here is the link again for that petition posted by JL,as it might be difficult to find it in this thread:


Judy C (91)
Monday July 25, 2016, 6:04 pm
On the subject of Tim Kaine, one of my objections to him is his love of coal, which of course is one of the worst possible energy sources we can use. He's from a coal state, so of course he defends this choice by being concerned about jobs in that industry. The destructive effects of this fuel should outweigh the value of any jobs. Virginia will have to get creative and find a better way to employ people.

Clinton and Kaine seem willing to jump on any environmental bandwagon, or espouse any view to gain votes, but what they will actually do If elected is certainly questionable.

I'm not sure whether or not green stars are working for me right now. I could once again see my own green stars, but I don't know whether people are receiving them when I send them or not.

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 6:19 pm
Thanks Judy--I did get and they led me back here. I am also disturbed by his anti-union, right to work history in addition to recent bank deregulation efforts and TPP fast track and statement that doesn't recognize that the core premises of TPP are flawed and unacceptable (his comments like hers suggest minor tweaks are all that is needed).

JL A (281)
Monday July 25, 2016, 8:45 pm
Diane Russell's super delegate speech can be found at:

Darren Woolsey (218)
Monday July 25, 2016, 11:40 pm
Judy, signed and shared that petition:
There are currently 5,291 signatures. NEW goal - We need 7,500 signatures!

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 1:08 am

Thanks a lot for the explanation, JL A - it's interesting to know such details and disturbing to see what has become of that idea!

Re-reading what I wrote late last night (morning) I see that I made a boo-boo - it should naturally have been: "Would the clear will of the people be ignored OR would the one who comes in as second be the new US President?" But I assume it was nonetheless clear.

Jae - thanks for the "air hug" whish is returned with permission of my hubby - LOL!!

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 1:15 am

Jae – I got curious about this “gang rape issue” and did a bit of reading. I believe the two links below are two good samples. The first one is what I call intellectually honest in that it does NOT take anything out of context but looks at the complete picture.

One can argue whether this was good taste or not but we all should recognize and admit that such was not a political death sentence in the 70’s (or later even!) but common talk. Anyone denying this is simply a liar or ignorant of recent history. Ever so many words and utterances which were “normal and common” in those days have since become politically incorrect (can’t stand this phrase because it is only “politically” incorrect – not incorrect as such!!).

I find it despicable how Bernie Sanders (or anyone else) is lynched for something he (she) said some 40 years ago. IF those who dug this up where truly concerned about the “message” he seemingly passed in those days one should ask the logical question: why was this essay never an issue when he run for the Senate?

Yet on the other hand the recent flip-flop of HRC on the LGBT issue is absolutely ignored …

Bernie Sanders and his essay 43 years ago

The Bernie Sanders 'Rape Fantasy' Essay, Explained

Let’s Not Crucify Bernie Sanders for His Sexual-Fantasies Essay

Bernie Sanders Talks 1972 'Rape Fantasy' Essay: 'I Learned My Lesson'

Versus Hillary Clinton’s flip-flop on LGBT rights – in 2002 she was clearly against it (pure opportunism) while a few years later she was for t

Hillary Clinton: A Threat To Humanity

Leave alone all the killings and extrajudicial assassinations she proudly voted for and laughed her head off about it (@ 2:30 on the referenced video), all the lies she uttered as has been proven with solid evidence (herself uttering the various variations over just the last 15 years – not once some 43 years ago), all the corruption cases she was actively part of, but most important that she clearly intends to engage in an active war with Russia and Iran INCLUDING using nukes (@3:00) – given she said those words at a Neocon Zionist event but that doesn’t change the meaning of the message -, etc. etc.

Frankly – I can’t stand it anymore to hear the often repeated, stupid and void argument that it’s time the US has a female president. I have yet to hear a solid good argument as to WHY. Since when has a penis or a vagina become the only point of reference in electing the President of the United States – or any State for that matter?

The best suited person who represents and fights for what the people of the country want and need should be elected; the best suited person who truly fights State terrorism (like the endless wars of aggression lead by the US against any disobedient country or countries rich in desired resources) as well as group terrorism (like the one by Al Qaeda and ISIS, both horror organizations created and funded by the US); – not the most corrupt (animal and human) killer, liar, turn coat and prostitute who will do literally anything to sit in the Oval Office (again). She’s been there for 2 terms – are the American people truly such masochists that they want more of her? I can’t believe it.

I know my last para above is idealistic but the person closest possible to that should get the job.


My question stands: IF the public votes overwhelmingly for someone who's not officially a candidate would that person become the new President of the US? In other words: if Bernie Sanders or Jill Stein would get the majority of the votes ... would Killary Clinton still become the new President :-(?


Darren Woolsey (218)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 2:34 am
I've read that "fantasy rape" story, and if I put that into context with EVERY single "negative" I've read about Hillary Clinton, for example, INCLUDING her disgraceful and disgusting suppression of evidence and detail over the abuse and gang rape of a young woman, then Bernie wins hands down in the race for championing of ethics and morals.

Also, Nyack, I've never met a single person who could remotely claim to be angelic, and in fact, women DO fantasize about all kinds of borderline imagery relating to sadism, bondage, and other "questionable" flights of imagination and fantasy, BUT THAT IS THE POINT. . . Bernie writes a pieces, demonstrating the nature of the dark psyche of humankind, and you're prepared to call him every name under the sun, including senile, whilst Clinton IS an ABUSER AND KILLER of ANIMALS, by virtue of her stance AND ACTION on exploitation of counties, environments and their resources.

ANIMALS WERE INVOLVED in this exploitation. ANIMALS ARE KILLED when the U.S. carpet bombs other countries areas.

Your unwillingness to even vote demonstrates an apathetic, suppression of a freedom to put your hysterical voice where it SHOULD invest its energy: in the election process.

Sheryl G (359)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 3:59 am
Thank you Darren and Eleonora for bringing out and writing so clearly concerning this fantasy rape issue that was just that, fantasy and did not actually happen. I have explained this in various way myself backed up by links as you have done and presented it to Nyack. She KNOWS all of this, but presents it over and over again. Most people, for or against Bernie Sanders had moved beyond this story months ago when it first broke out when the story was hashed over by the media, the people, and Bernie himself who said he regrets the poorly written piece. He was younger and used a poor choice of example in his writing.

I believe there is more to this in a personal sense with Nyack as she explains above that she "In the 70's I was part of Jimmy Caters Task force and helped created battered wives shelters nationwide to combat domestic violence, create legislation to protect women, and help transport women in dangerous situations safely (and privately) to shelters."

It appears to be a deep seated personal trigger that goes to the core of her being, perhaps she had this as a most unfortunate personal event in her own life of which if the case I'm truly sorry. Rape is a crime it is a lifelong altering life experience. Many people who have also been a victim of a serious crime by another human being prefers the animal species and tends to gravitate more deeply there and really has too much pain around the human species. Bottom line there is still pain there and healing to be done.

Many of us suffer from some trauma at some point in their life, I almost lost my life in a fire however two in that building did not make it, they perished all due to an arsonist. I am the only life that made it out alive as even the animals, my own included died. A true miracle I'm here writing this and it was logged that way in a fire log. Had Bernie written about a story that included an arsonist and fire, it would of been looked upon as not so favorable by me, but again, people write about many things and if it's a poorly written article of fiction 40+ years ago, there comes a time that it should be allowed to drift off into the sunset. It didn't take place in reality, Bernie didn't rape anyone no more than many authors who might of written about arsons or any number of stories.

While we have some major issues going on in this Country that affects everyone includes the two legged, the four legged, the winged ones, finned ones, our Plant Nation, the life giving waters, we can't mix in our personal pain and negate what someone would do for the good of all, in particular when we are talking about something that was fiction and a poorly written article. Most of us can look back upon our life to say we've done or said something that was not up to a standard we now use or are in our life 40 years later.

I would hope that Nyack can obtain the help to heal that she must need either from a personal point or from the years of passion she placed into that particular cause for women. I'm sure helping so many along the way in the seventies onwards she has been personally touched by their pain as well. Pain that is not in essence healed or taken care of is misdirected and I feel with the lashing out about Bernie Sanders and to those of us who support him perhaps has been so.

If I'm wrong on this I apologize but I've felt for awhile that Nyacks overreach on Bernie and trolling on the Bernie/Hillary threads has been beyond the normal range, to the point of obsessive and harsh towards the supporters of Bernie Sanders, if there is deep seated pain from personal experience it explains this more than it being a typical why one wants one politician over another, in fact explains a lot of why she will not be voting but yet is so passionate for Hillary anyways.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 6:10 am

Hhmmm - it simply cannot be that I'm understanding that Bernie Sanders took this "gang-rape" stuff in order to talk about (or rather write about) "... liberating people from harmful gender norms." although maybe poorly in todays retrospect. I mean ... English is the 4th language I learnt and not necessarily my strength.

So what are the possible motives if native English speaking people refuse to understand what this article from the 70's was all about?

Other than that - yes many men AND women do have funny, bizarre, shocking, laughable .... sex fantasies. Anyone with a bit of psychological knowledge (or very intimate and open friends) knows this as a fact. As long as they stay fantasies or are lived out on consensual basis there's nothing wrong with it. If the dangerous fantasies are realized and on top of it not consensual that's when it becomes a serious issue.

Reminds me of the story of 4 men who agreed to watch the world cup in a bar. One of them had to cancel because his wife was forbidding him to go to the bar. Everyone felt sorry for the poor guy. Lo and behold shortly before kick-off time the 4th guy shows up in the bar. Big hoopla and "hey, how did you manage to escape?"
"Well" says the man "my wife came to the living room, asking me to follow her to the bedroom. So I did. There she gave me a pair of handcuffs and said with this irresistible timbre in her voice: "Darling, you can do with me whatever your fantasy tells you to!" So ... what can I say? I told her to lay on the bed, handcuffed her to the frame and here I am!"

Angelika R (143)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 6:44 am
Thx for the laugh Eleonora, appreciated after what the thread turned into!
While the headline neither reads "Sanders inflames progressive base.." nor "Nyack inflames progressive base.."
Just saying..

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 7:17 am
Speaking of sexual fantasies... I thought my friends here might get a laugh out of this headline I've just read on Democracy Now! : Julian Assange: Choosing Between Trump or Clinton is Like Picking Between Cholera or Gonorrhea

Otherwise, I, too, will have to earmark this thread, as outside commitments prevent me from reading with thoroughness everything being written here.

JL A (281)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 8:39 am
"And how about his record and policies on domestic and sexual violence?

Bernie believes that the rates of sexual and domestic violence against women — and men — is too high, and that “much more has to be done.”

Bernie voted in August of 1994 to authorize the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA), which authorized $1.6 billion towards investigating and prosecuting domestic and sexual violence, and created the Office on Violence Against Women. Since the VAWA was enacted in 1994, incidents of domestic violence against women have dropped more than 50 percent.

In 2012, Bernie co-sponsored the Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act of 2013, a bill that renewed the provisions of the previous VAWA and included additional provisions to protect LGBT victims, expand access to justice for victims on Native American reservations, and extend protection for immigrant victims."

In the 1970's I'd helped with the collaborations in two cities creating and funding domestic violence shelters before Carter's task force provided any resources...
In Burlington, this service had begun before that, too:

JL A (281)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 8:53 am
Portia Boulger, Featured in Viral Video Viewed by Millions, Explains her Anger at DNC

Boulger tells Paul Jay that DNC leadership attacked democracy itself; she still implores superdelegates to support Sanders or risk a Trump victory


Angelika R (143)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 10:34 am
Pitiful you, not even comprehending a JOKE when one is told!

JL A (281)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 10:46 am
He was making his living as a free lance journalist and people expect him to have stopped generating income because he was running for office? I guess you want him to wear sack cloth and ashes too while Clinton addresses poverty in a $13,000 suit? Give me a break from the emotional GOP-type thinking please and be silent if you cannot face facts that are inconsistent with the perspective you formed before you learned any facts.

JL A (281)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 10:49 am
Angie, I also noticed the absence of gratitude that he pushed for LGBT inclusion in VAWA when he sponsored it predating Clinton providing any LGBT equality support...

Angelika R (143)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 11:23 am
As I said, pitiful.. let's not waste more bandwidth and space here on that.. gratitude..would have been due after Dandelion's extreme kindness, understanding and forgiveness shown.. there was not a peep, so don't wait for it.

Angelika R (143)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 12:23 pm
Today's NoCh article by Michael Paine spreaks exactly for me, read it please!

At a Time When America Desperately Needs the Best and the Brightest, We Get Trump and Clinton
and ponder...probably over a chance blown

Darren Woolsey (218)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 12:33 pm
Nyack the Animal Rights Defender, is supporting Hillary Clinton, the Animal Murderer.

Pity that.

Angelika R (143)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 12:48 pm
Fits right in with Lucy's mentioning above of Assange's "choice between Cholera or Gonorrhea. Or, as World Can't Wait put it, between a fascist and a war criminal. That's it.

And when you've digested that, perhaps top it with Michael Moore's latest:
'5 Reasons Why Trump Will Win'

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 1:14 pm

Hi Nyack - you and I have always been on good terms and I don't see why I should change this.

In life it's all about choices, isn't it? For a reason you chose to read into Sanders' essay "... that women fantasize about being gang raped by 3 men." If you'd have bothered to chose to read his article you'd see this is not what he meant; he chose a bad example in order to explain that "... liberating people from harmful gender norms" must be on everyone's agenda. I can't belief that you read this so wrong!?

You chose to understand that I don’t see anything wrong with such statements in general. Did I say that I don’t see anything wrong with it in general? No! I said that in THOSE days – 1970!!! – nobody saw anything wrong with such texts and I further said that anyone denying this is lying. Today – 40plus years later - we all view this differently (so I hope).

You also chose to understand that Angelika is laughing about “… an issue as serious as rape”. Now, where does she do that? She laughs at the joke I put in about sexual fantasies of a woman and her husband wanting to watch a soccer game. How you chose to make out of this that Angelika laughs about rape is beyond my comprehension.

Let's get away from this - you ask about rape and whether it is a crime in Egypt while at the same time putting emphasis on the fact that it "IS" a crime in the US.

Sorry, Nyack, but the way it is treated by judges and prosecutors in the States one can hardly call it a crime and not even a misdemeanor. IMO - If a man in the US gets a 1 day jail sentence for rape (e.g. the Enochs case) then something is fundamentally wrong in that society. The same goes for the case Brock Turner who got away with 6 months for multiple rape. Definitely that society has no right to sit on the high horse and judge other nations.

In Egypt we have the death penalty (firing by death squad or hanging) for murder and rape (if the rape victim was kidnapped and/or died). Otherwise rapists get a heavy jail sentence up to life imprisonment. Interesting though is the fact that when the death sentence was given to 5 men who gang raped a young woman early 2014 in Alexandria … the ones who protested the loudest was an American NGO! Equally when the government of Pres Sissi introduced heavy jail sentences for sexual harassment (up to five years for cat calls and groping) the ones who protested the loudest were American and European “NGOs” … Go figure … One can’t have the cake and eat it at the same time.

Back to the topic: I’ve always read you to be a person with a rather intact sense of justice. I can’t understand how you can possibly reconcile the criminal actions, the corruption (and many other “flaws”) as well as the opportunistic flip-flopping of HRC and be such a strong supporter of hers? But that’s your business and your prerogative. The only reason I’ve read once coming from you is that it’s time for a woman to be the POTUS. Sorry, that’s not a good enough reason for me. As I said further up: one should never make a decision of such far reaching consequences for the entire world solely based on a penis and testicles or vagina and breasts. But if this is good enough for you – again it’s your business.

Explaining ones stand and reasons do help in discussions to understand each other. But all of this can be debated without shouting and calling each other names. We all have always the choice. We also can amicably agree to disagree …

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 1:19 pm

Lucy - I understand perfectly what Assange meant. The Egyptians had the same choice to make in 2012 only they called it "the choice between the pest (Ahmed Shafiq - a military guy) and the cholera (Moh'd Morsi - the Muslim Brother). Neither was an option for a clear-minded person and many invalidated their ballot. But then the ballots didn't count anyway as the US protégé (Morsi) was lifted onto the throne.

Enjoy the reading of this thread - LOL! It's mind boggling at times ...

Angelika R (143)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 2:12 pm
Eleonora-not watching??? I'm in tears of emotion, frankly, as I listen to all the Bernie nominating speeches, kicked of by wonderful and amazing Tulsi "! wow, Bernie just sitting there listening and himself fighting the tears... Jane needs to pad him and cheer him up ;)

If you can't view on CNN- > LIVE day 2

Jae A (316)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 2:24 pm
I took a break from care2 after my last post above to stain some beams that we're installing as a part of our wood/stucco patio cover and then to watch the convention, so haven't been back until a few minutes ago when I began reading the comments after my last above, to catch up on the 'conversation'. WOW..a lot of comments and that's a good thing i.m.o. , regardless if folks were agree or disagreeing. Two sides to a coin make for more interesting coin... :-).

I'm going to attempt to absorb all the comments that I"ve read since being here last time.... and then take time to see if I can't come up with a 'condensed' version of all that has come to mind since catching up on the comments. I'm taking a few days off from 'client' scheduling [ home-improvement/construction and or repairs for others ] and have booked only one couple for a dance lesson in order to give my ol, 73 yr. old back a rest, while doing a little catch up on our own home projects and for sure watch the Dem convention and return for at least a short while fairly frequently to care2 and so many wonderful cyber friends who are equal to real time friends but without the physical hugs :-).

The Convention, i.m.o., so far general and I am really enjoying the 'thought'/comments' from loyal Bernie supports on cam at the convention.

That being said..I'll keep ah thinking and absorbing the comments of others ...along with having a snack and my afternoon meds [wink wink nod nod ]...that really help my thought processing, so ta say .

Jae A (316)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 2:34 pm
Almost left without passing my thanks along to Eleonora for her 'curiosity and the research info she proved ?

Yep , more of 'them thar' air hugs heading to ya...and to all commenters. As Mr Neighbors use to say...something to the effect ...'isn't a lovely day in the neighborhood'..'

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 3:53 pm

Angelika - what makes you think I'm not watching?! I do seem to have a little streak of masochism in me ... :-(. Let's brace for a bleak future ...

Jae - I start liking those air hugs - LOL!! Take care while remodeling your home!

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 3:54 pm

It's difficult to watch Bernie right now

Sheryl G (359)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 4:06 pm
Thanks Angelika I won't hold my breath.

Nyack I send you light -

Eleonora always spot on and so refreshing.

JL A Right on!

Lucy thanks for the link ;-)

Jae love you too sweetie - have missed you on here - air hugs back.

JL A (281)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 6:04 pm
I am so thankful that Tulsi, a military voice, chose to mention disastrous regime change and that Bernie pushed on opposition to TPP and all the disastrous trade policies and all the issues his supporters mentioned where Clinton made commitments where they publicly announced those promises as a sign of intent to hold her accountable.

JL A (281)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 7:34 pm
I chose to watch the full roll call and celebrated the first Native American (woman) state Party leader and how most of the states chose to identify exactly how many tribes they had, many of which were represented in their delegations and were states Bernie won. They spoke of how long ago the Party had chosen to become gender and ethnically inclusive, yet I do not recall anything like this level of inclusion of Native Americans ever before.
The other high point for me was the honor Bernie's brother provided as a delegate from Democrats Abroad on behalf of their parents and for restoring the vision of FDR to the Party's conversation and issues.
I also noted how historic first was the only reason states and those nominating and seconding her nomination seemed to give for electing her (and those speeches excluded any mention of what she has promised or actions to expect or anything she'll do for the people--suggesting they were prohibited from doing so either to leave her less accountable or only accountable to what she chose to say).

Sheryl G (359)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 8:04 pm
Thanks for the highlights JL A - I'm sickened by it all. Can't even watch. After all the rigging, the recent news of DWS, the fake smiles of Hillary her nodding bobble head - I just can't do it. Many years ago I thought the day when a woman became President or at least nominated would be thrilling, she has taken that thrill away this election and it's dirt shows me corruption from both parties. So there is no joy in this for me, best I not watch or I'd want to throw my shoe at the TV.

JL A (281)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 8:14 pm
Historical context:
"1973 The NOW Task Force on Rape is created to set up Rape Crisis Centers and hotlines across the country; NOW begins campaigns to redefine rape as a crime of violence."

"1976 The NOW Task Force on Battered Women is established."

In 1972 even NOW wasn't pushing the view of rape as a violent crime...part of the essential historical context IMO

Sheryl G (359)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 8:21 pm
Thanks JL A, is always easy to look from today's eyes and be judgmental of another time, we have to keep the era in context to what the majority of "thought" was during those years.

JL A (281)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 8:58 pm
You are welcome Dandelion...and I have been watching on-line a bit behind real time and have not braved watching anything that includes HRC or Kaine themselves (and skipped through a few of her surrogates in my watching yesterday, too by moving what point I was at without watching anything I wasn't up to). The site Frank posted was posting individual speeches as a separate option, so one can catch a few selectively.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Tuesday July 26, 2016, 11:32 pm

I did it to myself (again) ... was watching Bill Clinton putting in his 5 cts while having my first morning coffee. Now I scratch my head and wonder: why on earth did I do that to myself?? My hubby undergoes this afternoon a minor surgery and I don't need an upset stomach on top of the stress!

Bill Clinton: I hope you will elect her

Bill Clinton Gives Impassioned Speech on Hillary

Dandelion - I can perfectly imagine what you went through. Back in the 80's, when Switzerland finally got it's first female Minister we were almost drunk from happiness. She was also the VP at some point in her career. She was made to resign in disgrace a few years later and amid a big scandal. I learned my lesson: gender is never an argument to elect anyone.

JL A - thanks for the additional info; much appreciated and confirms what I was saying earlier. One always has to look at issues in the historical context.

Sheryl G (359)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 3:22 am
Thanks for the links Eleonora and I do hope all goes well for the surgery and your husband. Sending positive thoughts for complete success.

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 6:23 am
We may actually need a NEW thread here for further comments not directly related to the Kaine pick any more.
Any way, yes, I too FORCED /teased myself to watch the whole thing from start to finish, however, often in part with mute sound! I did that on purpose, you might say as sort of 'coping with a trauma', facing the disaster in real time so it won't keep haunting me later on, not that badly at least. Call it precautionary therapy if you like.
It was very difficult to watch, especally after the roll call and Bernie's departure, yet not such a surprise to see how all or most of his delegates, even where he had won by huge margins, have followed his call to elect her in the name of party unity.

I am STILL not sure if that was truly HIS OWN decision or blackmailed upon him: it is such a stunning illogicality when he and we all KNOW by all polls that HE and NOT HER is the only one to beat Trump in the general election!! How in the world could this fact get so horribly turned upside down again??!!

It makes ZERO sense to cooperate with the very neoliberal agenda party that they're FIGHTING ! How can they expect ANY change from them???
The following soap opera was the expected, well choreographed, personalized Hillary Show TM - no pain to watch, just maximum DISGUST.
(subsequently reflected in our email inboxes! ALL the dems where I hadn't yet unsubsribed immediately did what they always have done-spend their time with fundraising, not work!)

As I posted earlier, I'll echo Michael Moore and agree completely: GET READY to hear and say 'President Trump' ! The scales have already been tipped, I fear no mass exit of dems fleeing to Jill the savior could even avoid the lurking disaster any more. Neither could Bernie's continued movement, not until Nov. 8 anyway.
And THEN take a good look in the mirror! (Excludes C2 friends!) You got what you deserved, as opposed to your country!

JL A (281)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 6:29 am
I did read where the negotiations on how to have Bernie make the acclamation motion continued until just before the roll call vote began so it was something required of him in exchange for one or more of his policy victories. At least 200 of his delegates walked out of the convention, some with tape over their mouths, when he left after that part of the convention, and moved to where the media were and engaged in protected speech protest (law enforcement were not inclined to let them have that space to protest apparently).

JL A (281)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 6:33 am
Note: Bernie asked that his supporters not protest inside the convention--the protestors did honor his request:

Nothing in the convention fit a normal definition of protest.

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 7:14 am
Even if ALL his supporters and delegates had walked out it would not change a thing in what's been a preset outcome.
Yes it shows Bernie's grace, integrity and decency, speaks for him and nice if in the name of peace the majority followed his command.
But I maintain my view that there are no 'policy victories', neither has the party been "pushed to the left', let alone HRC! What you have isn't much more than a bunch of non-binding declarations on some pieces of paper in the platform, that's it.
Selling you anything different is not much more than the old familiar diversionary tactics, bedazzling you.
You may get some crumbs over time, chunks at best.

A picture speaks more than words..true again here:
* *

JL A (281)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 8:03 am
In case you were wondering about the rules:
What if Clinton were indicted, post-DNC?

Does make me more glad DWS is gone...

JL A (281)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 8:11 am
Is Hillary Clinton’s Pick Of Tim Kaine Another Sign Democrats Are Leaving The ‘Education Reform Camp?’

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 10:30 am
Thx for those links Judi. The rules thing is irrelevant-there will not be any vacancy, even if they'd have to carry her half dead to the inauguration!
The "reform" projects, and not only re education, I think are also mainly empty promises. As hinted in the article, it is, like with Kaine, in all other issues and politicians incl. HRC, the same wisdom: what has NOT been said matters more than what's been said (and written down!)

From the first link( :
"...This calmed the tensions. And it could go a long way toward ensuring there are no resounding boos during Clinton's acceptance speech Thursday night." ;-) WE'LL SEE...may be more pooohs than booos.
Perhaps to do hold their breath would be good advise then.

Sheryl G (359)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 10:55 am
Angelika "But I maintain my view that there are no 'policy victories', neither has the party been "pushed to the left', let alone HRC! What you have isn't much more than a bunch of non-binding declarations on some pieces of paper in the platform, that's it."

I agree with that, as I've been talking to people living over here, many of us are getting the sick feeling that either Bernie or his family was threatened in some way. The Clinton machine has been known for darkness in the past, everything from Whitewater and Vince Foster. Even if the Clinton's claim they know nothing of it there is always murky waters surrounding them. It just goes on and on and on one scandal after another.

If in combination with the scandals and to what has taken place with the rigged election against Bernie isn't enough for people to "get a clue" then I don't know what would be. One way or another "someone" or may be a few "someone's" were going to make darn sure he wasn't elected. There is a neoliberal machine on the roll and they are not going to let anyone stop it.

And while the Press didn't offer much coverage on it, there are many protests that took place outside that were joined by people leaving, as JL A mentions the Convention. The Established Press or what is spoken of as the Corporate Media isn't going to cover it, or if they do they'll fluff it off as nothing. But then you can't get coverage if the INDEPENDENT Press is arrested and detained. Please see Judy's post Abby Martin Violent Arrest Outside The DNC

Sorry folks, those of us living in the USA just do not have fair elections, I don't suppose you've found out yet JL A were your vote went, I still never had my vote accounted for from 2000 here in Florida.

Because the Established Dem's that are just as crooked as on the Republican side, we've got Hillary Clinton, a walking disaster, when we could of had a man of integrity that had a Vision to truly move this Country forward and most likely would of been better in foreign affairs, but instead we get the From Whitewater to Benghazi"> Scandal Ridden Hillary of whom will most likely deliver us Donald Trump whereas Bernie Sanders would of mopped the floor with him.

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 11:44 am
Been saying this for nearly as long as you Sheryl. No cure for stupid.. is why I said they'll get what they deserve, even if America may derserve better- but apparently they cannot "do better than this" matter how much longer this will be preached and emphasized.
The entire world will get what not all deserve, that is the problem. If people fail to care for foreign policy and fail to see the connection they'll never understand why things are as miserable as they are in the homeland!

Darren Woolsey (218)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 12:07 pm
. . . AND NO ANIMALS WILL BE SAVED during the making of this make believe democratic process, in countries, these butchers invade.

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 12:33 pm
Quite wrong! There is NOTHING BUT wildlife of the very worst predator sort on Wall Street-and that goes for everyone with ties to it as well!

Jae A (316)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 1:10 pm
Bernie kept his word/promise to his supporters, to see his campaign through to the convention...but...first of all he had to 'pledge his support ' to the DNC and to whoever the nominee would be by that time in order to run on the Dem ticket.. He's a man of his word and he kept his promise to both groups. His supporters should understand that and be more applicative of his being that kind of man . One that is surrounded by crooks and liars every day in Congress that it is in session... I believe he gave his supporters credit to be able to read between the lines while he spoke and then showed support for Hillary that he kept his word to all. He will now do all he can to keep 'the movement' alive and well from this day forward...with or with Hillary..and to me that says even more positive things about his honor/values/character. He knew that his supporters would not do as he must ask of them by way of supporting Hillary. We should know that was a must of him to ask in order to keep his promise to the DNC in order to run on the Democrat ticket. His supporters are already ...and will continue to be... the big winners as he will not stop pushing a progressive movement from this moment forward. We have a real progressive leader now in Bernie. That alone was worth supporting him, i.m.o., and for continuing doing so.

I think his supporters should feel comfortable knowing that he will be an out spoken critic of HRC ...hold her feet to the fire, so to say , should she not keep her word on the platform polices she agreed to . Now that he has the following/supporters into the millions that he has from running for President his 'clout' in Congress will be a powerful tool. Personally, I expect Hillary to not keep her word on many of the agreed to polices if and when she moves into the White House. Her track record just doesn't tell me differently.

That will place her in a real difficult position by the end of her first term, should she win this one and seek a second one....which she surely hopes to do. Next round,, should she not keep her promises, she will have to win on her own an without the 45% of the party who support Bernie during this election. Bernie began a 'movement' and he hasn't said it's over due to his not being the party nominee....he has made every indication that he plans to progress with the movement more and more from this day on in fact.

I am curious as to why someone who wants Hillary to win bring up Wall Street in their commenting. To remind people of Hillary's hard core ties and support for corporate America, which by now having accepted millions from them to finance her campaign will not doubt have even more payback make to them. Only one way to do that...cut budgets that are for the betterment/social assistance etc. for the masses. That's the nature of the beast she has sided with for $$$$. She'll need their bucks for another election should she win this one . Please the voters or please Wall Street....that's a bed of decisions that she has placed herself in.

If she does win this election I for one don't see how she'd win a second term without Bernie supporters...or even this one for that matter. No way can she do so without them now or later. The voters aren't going to let her not keep her promises to them as Obama did....this time and the next , four years from now, we'll have an alternative in place...Bernie and his wife. Bernie will see to that every day that she is in office should she win this round.

The above is what I came away with, as to 'some' of my thoughts after having watched, in part, the DNC the first and second day.

JL A (281)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 2:58 pm
All the promises from Clinton on policy areas Bernie pushed are ones where the authority to do is in Congress and not executive power--so not vetoing it if DEMs can get it done without her is the most to expect from her as she turns the economy over to Bill to wreck while she wrecks Syria and every other country she finds an excuse to destroy the civilians, the animals and the environment of in allegiance to her failed and unsustainable neocon/neoliberal world view shaped by Reagan and the Bushes.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 3:49 pm

Angelika, Dandelion, JL A and Jae - would love to send you galaxies of Stars: ************************

Kudos, Angelika, you put my feelings and partial knowledge (about the pressure) in perfect words. Nothing to add. Now let's brace for a messed-up 4 years (God or whoever forbid 8 years!!!) and lets be happy if there are some intact countries left after either HRC$$$$ or Trumpf wins this election.

Geez - how could America go down the drain so fast and land in the deepest possible gutter?!

Darren - as for protecting animals ... you don't get it: they chose to protect the worst possible of all animals (my apologies to the animals) which is K$$$illary Rotten Clinton. She will together with Theresa May be a perfect "team of destruction". Do I hate that both are supposed to be women ...

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 3:50 pm
You got that very accurately correct Judi! And that IF the DEMs can get even that far is a very BIG IF as well!

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 3:58 pm
In my most recent unsubsciptions I made sure to tell those dems who wasted no time wirh fundraising emails "to beat Trump" that they COULD have had that easily.with the only ONE who could do it-without all that fundraising or just with further $27! They made the wrong choise so better now pay for it ALONE.

Like someone recently wrote in The Nation, I share his hope that they will erect a YUUUGEE statue of Bernie on the Mall, pointing his finger to the $ 27! :-)

Sheryl G (359)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 3:59 pm
Jae "Bernie kept his word/promise to his supporters, to see his campaign through to the convention...but...first of all he had to 'pledge his support ' to the DNC and to whoever the nominee would be by that time in order to run on the Dem ticket..

I agree, Bernie is a man of his word and is honorable. However after the rigging and all of the boulders by the leaks that show now that the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz and I'm sure Hillary was well aware of it, I don't think anyone would of faulted him had he backed out of that agreement. After all the DNC did not keep THEIR end of the agreement, to treat him fairly in the election.

The Dem's really have hurt themselves big time in this, loyal Party members are leaving the Democratic Party because of the corruption they are seeing. Even if she receives her crown, the Party itself has been damaged. I hope they get their monies worth out of Hillary for the price she made the Party itself pay in dragging it down into the gutter.

Hillary isn't the only reason that the Dem's have problems, because the Third Way Democrats with the "other" Clinton (Bill) moved the Party from an FDR approach to joining the sold our Republican Corporatists so many complained about. She just added the icing on the dirt cake and exposed to even more people a Party that is corrupted.

You are correct Jae with Hillary's ties to Wall Street there will be lots more suffering going on for the masses those who can least afford it, but those loyalties also affect the animals greatly as well with the allowance of more and more Corporations onto public lands to dig and drill for oil, gas, coal and anything else that may be there. In addition to funding cuts for animal protection programs that exist will be working with an even leaner budget or have it removed all together. Wall Street can't make money off of saving animals, it is an externality and they don't consider externalities. Which is what Darren mentions in his comment.

People really need to start connecting the dots......follow the money as they say.

I was sitting in the waiting room today having the oil changed in my car and we all got talking. There was 3 of us who were Bernie Sanders supporters, a Republican who was always going to vote for Trump. Now that Bernie is out of the race we were candid with each other, the man of the couple said he was voting for Trump, his wife was not sure what she was going to do but said she was NOT going to vote for Hillary.

As I am voting for Dr. Jill Stein, I said to the woman before you finalize your decision check out the Green Party with Jill Stein a female that is very much like a Bernie Sanders. She said she wasn't aware of her but would look into her. Even the Republican man said if he'd been a Democrat he'd vote for Bernie Sanders, he said I didn't agree with all of what he said, but I could tell he was a good man who seemed down to earth and honest. He said no way would I ever consider voting for one of the Dynasty families, he said I am glad that Bush didn't get it, he said I'm tired of the same two families.

I can't say we are the norm - but just by happenchance this is what was discussed......However I do have a feeling that more feel like we did. The Dem;s shot themselves in the foot, I believe Trump is going to win, he is also pushing hard to make sure TPP doesn't get in - I FULLY support that - and the Spineless Ones on the Democratic ticket wouldn't even put that on a piece of paper that was NON binding. Hillary Clinton until it was evident via Bernie Sanders and his supporters had said TPP was the gold standard, then changed her mind - whoops wrong conversation. Even Chamber of Commerce Lobbybist Tom Donohue does not believe that, and then Hillary picks for VP someone more to the Right than she is on certain things. Tim Kaine one of the Democrats that supported the Fast Track for TPP......How can so many, even on C2, who signed against the TPP and fully KNOW what TPP is and then still go and vote for Hillary.


Angelika R (143)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 4:17 pm
Watch out for Obama's speech tonight, be sure he WILL address the fear of Trump winning, now beginning to realise that this is REAL. do we pity the fool/s!
And ALL only to keep their goddamn perpetual wars going. Their explanations and excuses are running thin now, that's why the media on their behalf keep banging on the rumor, nothing but a rumor with zero evidence, that "the Russians" hacked the DNC emails to support Trump. Listen to the semantics how they blur their alleged "evidence" they don't have.

Instead they should take at leasdt that one page out of the demagogue's book and for a change try to COOPERATE FINALLY with the Russinas to end that disastrous Syria war once and for all and effectively DEFEAT ISIS, not prop it up and spare it as they've been doing while killing scores of civilians with their erroneous airstrikes gone bad.

You just need to read or watch all the daily pressers at state dept and to know this is the truth.

Sheryl G (359)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 4:19 pm
I'm sorry was typing my book when I submitted I see mention of Teresa May. The next Margaret Thatcher in a combination with Hillary Clinton - oh in all that is merciful what a mess we have.
Teresa May Has No Problem Murdering Hundreds of Thousand of Innocent People
Hillary We Came We Saw He Died Ha Ha Ha

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 4:21 pm
I'm still watching simultaneously the convention day 3, waiting for the moment when it finally hurts less to see and listen how the criminal queen in her scripted on stage Hillary Show reaps the fruit that Bernie sowed...
So far I've only heard Harry Reid even mention him with gratitude.

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 4:26 pm
You forgot Merkel in that trio infernale!

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 4:30 pm
Because I don't need to, $Killary is doing that for me!

Sheryl G (359)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 4:42 pm
Ah yes, Merkel, well we'll have the Three Stooges then, only the deadly version.

JL A (281)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 4:49 pm
Judy posted new horrible treatment of a major Bernie supporter:
This part of his family was definitely threatened and he would have hated that (he did put up a fight on her behalf)...and she is one who can make a difference and the national exposure would have helped her future political efforts.

Michael Moore provides a non-emotional and factual explanation that shows it has everything to do with Clinton and nothing to do with Bernie supporters if Trump wins that Lone posted:

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 5:19 pm

Dandelion - thanks for putting in these two separate links for better attention. The two sequences are also in the video by Globalresearch (further up) but yours further highlights how nice these two ladies are and how easy they'd blow up the world.

Watch this in case there is still someone who doesn’t know!

The same applies to Sadam Hussein - he wanted to disengage from the Dollar and go Euro ... pffff ... gone he is!

Judy C (91)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 5:30 pm
I discovered a while ago that the comment I posted last night at bedtime has disappeared. *%&#$@. I forgot to take my own advice and double-check. I'm still weak and feel very fatigued, although I'm better than I was.

Again, I'll thank all of you who put on their big people pants to deal with Nyack's vitriol here. You show compassion and patience, and Dandelion, you may have hit on an explanation for such chronic anger.

Thanks for the much-needed laughs, Eleonora and Lucy. A big air hug to Jae, and in fact, to the rest of you.
These are some trying times.

There are many worthwhile links here, too, and some good analyses by JL and Angelika & a few words from Darren. This covers up through Tuesday. I've started reading through Wednesday's comments now, and getting to some links.

I guess I have a masochist streak too, because I've watched quite a bit of the DNC streams since Mon. It's so disheartening and phony, too. I did see quite a bit of the roll call and Tulsi Gabbard's oasis of light in the darkness last night.

I posted articles about Abby Martin's arrest (a newer one) and one about Nina Turner's treatment at the DNC a while ago today:

ROF Exclusive: Abby Martin Discusses Her Arrest At The DNC - YouTube

Hope your husband's procedure went well, Eleonora.

Was Nina Turner, Prominent Sanders Delegate, Ejected (or Worse) at DNC?


Angelika R (143)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 5:43 pm
Judy, above all get better real quickly and thanks for all your posts on the burning #1 topic these days!

JL A (281)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 5:44 pm
Eleonora, it may be vital to know Sid had lost clearance for working for the govt. and/or access to confidential information and the administration forbid her to hire him so her even communicating with him on this is at best noncompliant with orders behavior.

Sheryl G (359)
Wednesday July 27, 2016, 5:49 pm
Indeed Judy - rest, mend, don't overdue, and glad to have you on here when you can. Thanks for the posts you can provide.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 5:33 am
Thanks Judy - all went well and the alarm is off; those bumps were really only Lipoma. Very happy!!
As for you - you should get well first, see to it that you gain strength again and not bother your head with our babble here ;-). Some comments may even get your BP up and that's not good for you!! Get well, you hear?!

JL A - maybe I'm just tired but right now I can connect with "Sid"?

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 5:35 am
JL A - I AM tired ... can't connect with "Sid" it should read ... sorry!

JL A (281)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 6:37 am
From an email from World Without War:
"During last night's speeches at the Democratic Party's convention to nominate Hillary Clinton for president of the United States, former Secretary of War and CIA Director Leon Panetta tried to fearmonger by blaming Russia for supposedly interfering in a U.S. election (by allegedly revealing how the Democratic Party had in fact rigged its primary for Hillary Clinton). The delegates from Oregon began a chant of "No More War!" and held up signs including "End the drone wars!" California and other delegations joined in. Panetta had to stop speaking. The party bosses truned off the lights on the Oregon section, which then pulled out cell phones and turned on flashlight apps. Watch the video here:

Neither big party convention in the United States has expressed any interest in ending war, outside of that wonderful chanting. We're going to be needing a powerful global peace movement to control U.S. warmongering. "

Angelika R (143)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 6:47 am
Eleonora, sie meint natürlich Blumenthal! Wake up! ;)
thx Judi. It pissed me off too when in fact, all said the very same, Biden after Panetta and the prez as well, both calling Putin "a dictator"... and as I already commented sufficiently-mere speculations and fabrications without a shred of evidence who hacked!

The "threat to democracy" actually comes straigth out of Washington and that is exactly what I told them in response to some emails asking for signatures-nope!

Angelika R (143)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 6:57 am
If that DNC hack was again done by Guccifer 2.0 who is a Romanian, as were the Clinton emails, then my guess is those "tracks" and "fingerprints" the FBI allegedly found "similar" to Russian hacks in the past, as they claim, one possible answer would be the Kyrillic characters which are quite sililar in both languages and perhaps couldn't be distinguished from one another.

JL A (281)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 7:02 am

At Democratic Convention, Round One to the Progressives
The first night in Philadelphia was a celebration of progressive values, but Big Money still has a grip on the party.

Why I saw the sign during roll call voting "Actions speak louder than words."

JL A (281)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 7:04 am
Eleonora--Sid is who she was exchanging all the emails with on Libya

Animae C (508)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 7:15 am
i thought tigers were banned from the circus ; )

Angelika R (143)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 7:25 am
Brilliant AniMae! :-)

JL A (281)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 8:36 am
The DNC just went to court to keep its donor list hidden from the public.

Darren Woolsey (218)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 8:46 am
Signed and shared petition over social media, JL A.

Angelika R (143)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 8:50 am
Signed, thx. We know it anyways: most likely all the donors to the Clinton Foundation. And more.
Certainly most names as already revealed earlier e.g. here:

Sheryl G (359)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 10:51 am
Keep the attention on the Russian (without proof) hacking and that will have the people speaking about that rather than the fact that as a technology Country the DNC should of had a better system in place, also since Bernie's team had already warned them that issues were going on.

It also takes the conversation off the fact of the nastiness that was going on within the Establishment of the Democrat Party the dirty tricks to win an election based on cheating, trickery, and other low life manner of stealing an election, because their worn out corrupted and Corporatist ideas and practices are NOT what the people wanted nor do they need.

So why not toss out the Russians, bring back the cold war, blame Trump for the fear mongering while the Dem's are doing the same thing. We can play dirty, call people names, try to throw Bernie the Jew or is he an Atheist under the bus because people were actually like the Socialist parts.

That is alright if the Dem's say all their prejudices and low brow conversation among themselves or via what they felt were private emails, but somehow Trump is going to destroy America, like it isn't already on a downward spiral, all because Trump at least has the chutzpah to say it out loud.

I've said before, who is worse the one who calls it out loud or the others who claim they are not doing the same things but stab you in the back afterwards. At least let me face the one who is saying it loudly then I know where I stand and what I'm dealing with. The Spineless Ones, oh dear, the Russians did it, the mean Russians how dare they. Putin must be shaking his head, I'm sure he sees through it too, but doesn't make things less dangerous for all.

Sheryl G (359)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 11:14 am
JL A "Neither big party convention in the United States has expressed any interest in ending war, outside of that wonderful chanting. We're going to be needing a powerful global peace movement to control U.S. warmongering"

The Hillary supporters keep telling us Bernie Sanders supporters are the enemy, just ask Nyack, she'll tell you. Trump is so evil yet don't pick on Hillary because she is such a sweetheart. She throws out how Hillary helped some elephants and some children's program, but fails to mention or see how many animals were killed as the bombs rained down in Iraq or Libya. How many children are dead from these wars, and in the Country of Honduras we have more and more indigenous environmental activist being killed, compliments of Hillary.

But my threads are trolled, because I supported Bernie and now support Jill Stein, because how dare I not keep playing the Corporate game of the lesser of two evils when I can tell they BOTH are evil, there is no lesser than.

So glad things went well for you and your husband Eleonora. Great news.

Darren Woolsey (218)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 11:52 am
Shared your last two news article over social media to spread awareness, Angelika and JL A.

Past Member (0)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 2:03 pm

D wrote: "The Dem's shot themselves in the foot, I believe Trump is going to win, he is also pushing hard to make sure TPP doesn't get in - I FULLY support that - and the Spineless Ones on the Democratic ticket wouldn't even put that on a piece of paper that was NON binding. Hillary Clinton until it was evident via Bernie Sanders and his supporters had said TPP was the gold standard, then changed her mind - whoops wrong conversation. Even Chamber of Commerce Lobbybist Tom Donohue does not believe that, and then Hillary picks for VP someone more to the Right than she is on certain things.."

Wow, you think emperor Slump's going to win? I respect your analysis on many issues so if you think Slump is going to win, I take notice. As of July 28, I don't think he's going to pull it off. (*No, the DNC re-branding show hasn't influenced me :-)

I have had more misses than hits when commenting on boy-emperor, though.

After the empress gives her speech tonight and the circus leaves town, I'm hoping to recover soon from back to back circuses to comment where I think everything is headed.

**Some excellent comments on the thread by all.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 2:04 pm
Thanks JL A and Angelika - banging my head ... now as the black-out is gone thanks to my afternoon nap - LOL. Yeah - Sid Blumenthal ... not a very "Muslim" name at least ;-).

Thanks for the additional info, JL A and your last two comments, Dandelion; absolutely agree. Putin is always good to be the bogeyman and people swallow it all too willingly.

"We're going to be needing a powerful global peace movement to control U.S. warmongering."

I love this idea and am sure we can get there. I do remember how we took to the streets by the millions to stop the US and its poodles from attacking Iraq. Although there was no success for the peace movement in that case the war mongers have shifted now their tactics to "terror attacks" as it is much easier to "convince" people to walk in lock step.

A I’ve said already … the slogan in the Roman Empire was “give them bread and games” – now we get “terror and games”! We should refuse to play Pokemon Go and seriously take two steps back and analyze the countless terror attacks rather than let our emotions run away with our brains.

After all - who would dare to speak up after a bloody horror attack like the one in Nice where the Min of Interior has ordered the destruction of the CCTV Video Footage and a brave police woman in Nice refuses to falsify her report (Petition to sign in support of her) as per order of the same Minister!? One would immediately be tarred and feathered!

Yet – we have to learn again to think outside the boxes they try to squeeze us in!

What real power would such global movement have? We can demonstrate, protest ... and then? Yeah, we can even see to it that anti-war legislations are past by our governments ... and how do we enforce them? All that is needed is a “good” terror attack and all is suspended or cancelled – see Patriot Act I&II or the state of emergency and so on.

We have to seriously put our minds to work what can EFFECTIVELY be done to stop this endless war machinery which has been set in motion by America with the willing (???) help of its poodles.

We've got to stop Western governments from plundering the other countries of this world at the expense of innocent "terror" victims.

We've got to ... With the real possibility of having K$$illary or Trump at the helm of the US I believe that we've past the point of talking and debating.

Angelika R (143)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 3:54 pm
Eleonora, Patriot Acts aren't counted by the numbers anymore, they now have letters, initials by COUNTRY attached in front! (e.g. USA Patriot Act, F Patriot Act, UK Patriot Act, G patriot Act-that's us, ours, etc.. get it? ;)

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 4:19 pm

Got it Angelika - I'm still old-fashioned ... and am stuck in the original - LOL. Do you think the "southern belt" of the EU is in the making ...? They can't be left out - after all they might get upset ...

Jae A (316)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 4:20 pm
More on my thoughts about many Bernie supporters not supporting , much less voting for Hillary. That 'spoiler concept that has been talked about on this and other care2 threads.

Not to throw too much water and poo poo on the idea that Trump might or that he will win for sure due to many Bernie and other Dems not wanting Hillary nor planning to vote for her ....but I have other opinions in mind to share. The over looked by media... who will not vote for Trump .... who are not Dem's but Republicans. Moderate Republicans. Old style Esinhower Republicans more or less.

We live in a heavily Republican area . We are more or less surround by GOPers. Our 'social network' as well as our reson for living here..client base are almost all Republican. That's how we earn a living. We offer two main services...home remodeling/repairs etc. and 'ballroom dance lessons. Our professional standing in ballroom/social dancing brings us ....home remodeling/repair etc... clients and dance students for prvt. lessons, with a few class lessons from time to time during 'season'..for charity causes. Our four closets friends are unfortunately Republicans :-)...Their closest friends also Republicans that we are aware of.

Out of the few...a hundred or two of the combined social and client base that we know, through business or social efforts, *only one* has said they are 'considereing Trump'. All the others do talk politics at dinner dances and other social activitis that we are invited to attend now and then. So far all but the one, say they will vote for Hillary before doing so for Trump, as much as they dislike much about her. Shocking as that is, even to us.

Most are 'millionairs'..avg. of 5-20 mil, with some in the 100-400 million bracket. The majority are either retired or semi-retired with time to spare all year wherever they are. Our entire Coachella Valley rotates around these people, especially during 'Season' when half of our residences live here ..doing so only during 'Season'...Fall and Winter. Everyone of working class must make the most of those months income wise to survive the other months [summers] without at least half or more of the cash flow the wealthy spend while here during season.

All in all there are really only three classes of people living in the area..the rich, the really really rich and the working class [ourselves enclude] who cater/provide the needed services/retail goods/country club staffs etc. of the rich. With those stats in mind that is why, even we, were shocked when we discovered it difficult to find Trump supporters. The bulk of these people are not the rightwing extremist nor evangelic and or teabager type people. They are super wealthy Republicans ..who just the thought of Trump running shot gun over our nations policies... which effect their investments [Wall Street and other] big time... scares the you know what out of them, way more than the thought of Hillary being President; scaring them a lot more than ourselves. After all, it's they who stand to lose fortunes, not us [Mac and Myself]. We barely make it from payday to payday in summers and not enough cash flow during sone seasons to save up for the summers... all too often. Especially now that we only do 'construction' projects part time and have cut our teaching in half due to my back problems and our ages in general. Mac is no spring chicen either even though he is 17 years younger than myself. Anyway. these are the Republicans that the media are not talking about when they are 'reporting' on the Trump campaign and his supporters. Nation wide I have the feeling that more of the wealthy Republicans have the same mindset about Trump as the wealthy in our area do. That's a large GOP voting block not for Trump...

Sheryl G (359)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 4:52 pm
I agree Jae, the really well to do Republicans are moving to Hillary, I've even posted that via the Neocons of the Reagan and Bush Administration. They 'know" Hillary, they are unsure of Trump. However, I also posted a story awhile back about the rust belt areas of the Country, that were Bernie supporters and long time Democrats. It was a story how they are moving to Trump as they feel after all these years of supporting the Democrats they have received nothing for it, just job losses. UPRISING IN THE RUST BELT

I live in a southern State and there is a big Trump fan base in Florida which is a key State in elections, Ohio is in the Rust Belt. While Trump has insulted the minorities I noted that many of them are just not voting or interested, and I just in casual conversation speak with many in the Hispanic community and those whom I spoke to in the African American community either seem disinterested and some said Hillary.

Perhaps I"m wrong Randy, but I'm watching polls and the latest polls i saw had Hillary and Trump almost neck in neck. Some polls she was ahead some he was ahead. But the vast majority of people are hurting financially and if he keep pushing he is against the TPP and I've been listening to some of the things he is saying, average people are not getting as bent out of shape over him as the media wants to make out.

As someone I met who is from the New York/New Jersey area said, he speaks like us. That is how people in that part of the Country speak. They said, they can understand that maybe others might find him offensive or off putting but they are use to it. They feel if he curbs that a bit, he'll pull in more people, and you know people have short attention spans.

A lot of people both Republican and Democrats are sick and tired of the DYNASTY families, many of the Republicans I've spoken too are actually glad another Bush didn't win the nomination. Most felt he was a good enough fellow, but TIRED of the dynasty families and same went for the Clintons with some of the Democrats I've spoken too. Most their voting life it's been a Bush or a Clinton - people are tired of the two names.

So this I feel will be a close one - but whoever it is - I feel we've already lost. I'll toss my vote to the Green Party to help to grow that Movement but as far as I can see it, we've lost.

Angelika R (143)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 5:14 pm
I also feel that Michael Moore's "maths" plus all other arguments mentioned here are very valid. And it isn't that part of the electorate as Jae describes, they are not the masses, majority. But that is who will decide the election and those masses, unless they're Clintonites, WILL vote Trump.

With this gigantic scripted Hillary Hollowood Show the past days and particularly tonight probably even more working people who watched it will get turned off by the dems and by her, that is what I expect at least.

JL A (281)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 6:06 pm
Very well said Dandelion and I would add that I read (even before the CA primary) those Republicans were who she wanted to woo and not other DEMs or progressives and so began moving a bit to the right in her speeches as soon as she could.

The platform is pretty much directed at Congress and says next to nothing about anything that is executive authority under the constitution.

JL A (281)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 6:20 pm
Oversimplified Context: Nixon took us off the gold standard so we no longer needed to limit the dollars issued by the Treasury to the value of the gold in Fort Knox and thus could do some economy management via issuing more cash than that. That makes the dollar more vulnerable as a currency and why other countries choose local currencies (like Libya wanted to do) because for ordinary people, local currency is more stable than a currency whose value is based on to relationship with other currency(ies). Persons here whose money is invested and/or whose incomes come from investments, need dollar supremacy and stability in ways ordinary people who are spending for consumer goods locally do not. Neocon/neoliberal regime changing policies are rooted in protection of that aspect of the dollar along with the intersection of corporate access as cheap as possible to human and natural resources in other countries to provide the inflated returns to such investors. Always makes me think of that song from Caberet--"Money makes the world go round." And why dating back to at least Reagan, policy evaluations always called for looking for the money trail.

JL A (281)
Thursday July 28, 2016, 9:31 pm
William Rivers Pitt | Just a Show: The Calm Sham of the DNC

especially for you Angie and he does sum it up quite well

Angelika R (143)
Friday July 29, 2016, 5:26 am
Thanks Judi! I bet he did and the title tells it already! I will read it momentarily.

Angelika R (143)
Friday July 29, 2016, 8:12 am
Guess I'll just add Now that the Show is over, the show must go on.

I find WRP's conclusion and decision to sleep it out this time quite odd. Given the devoted gardener he is, makes you wonder about his objections to the Green Party..Maybe his conscience feels lighter with a non-vote than a perceived "wrong" or "thrown away" one. Wrong either way.

Sheryl G (359)
Friday July 29, 2016, 9:00 am
Yes the show is over now the reality sets in...... :-(

General John Allen Speech

Angelika R (143)
Friday July 29, 2016, 9:34 am
One couldn't fail to notice the overall strongly militarized emphasis during the last days at the convention.
You better take that as an intentional message!

Sheryl G (359)
Friday July 29, 2016, 10:08 am
Yup, they have sent out the signal. With a weak Peace Movement in the USA it will be up to outside influences to also be vocal.

Angelika R (143)
Friday July 29, 2016, 11:50 am
Once again I think it is Mark Ash of RSN ,- the only times I bother to read that outlet-, who is spot -on with his comments:
[...] " What does produce a big Election Day turnout? Genuine enthusiasm for the candidate, and the candidate’s message. Right now Hillary Clinton’s message is, “I’m a woman and you need to fear Trump.” There is absolutely no indication whatsoever that it’s inspiring Democratic and Progressive voters to any noteworthy degree."
That is it in a nutshell!

Angelika R (143)
Friday July 29, 2016, 11:54 am
And more hints to what I've predicted as well:
'Clinton friend McAuliffe says Clinton will flip on TPP, then walks it back'

Past Member (0)
Friday July 29, 2016, 12:01 pm

D wrote: "Perhaps I'm wrong Randy, but I'm watching polls and the latest polls i saw had Hillary and Trump almost neck in neck. Some polls she was ahead some he was ahead. But the vast majority of people are hurting financially and if he keep pushing he is against the TPP and I've been listening to some of the things he is saying, average people are not getting as bent out of shape over him as the media wants to make out."

Right or wrong, hits or misses - it's too early to know, the debates and the dreaded "October Surprise" still remain to take into account. That's why I commented, "As of July 28, .....". If Slump has done anything at all by running, it's that he has made a tired, worn out, unsurprising, money-soaked, thoroughly corrupt system of politics - INTERESTING this cycle.

And yes, it's true about the polls. Here in PA, Slump hasn't done a darn thing, nada, el zipo, yet, in the polls, he is nearly tied to LIAR-ary.

D: "average people are not getting as bent out of shape over him as the media wants to make out."

Yes, so far "average" workers haven't taken the bait, but the media haven't gone nuclear on Slump, yet - they're saving that for later. On TV media at this point, Slump only has half of Pox News on his side and he might be losing full support from Greta Van Something soon, too.... leaving him only Shammity and O'Really.

D: "As someone I met who is from the New York/New Jersey area said, he speaks like us. That is how people in that part of the Country speak. They said, they can understand that maybe others might find him offensive or off putting but they are use to it. They feel if he curbs that a bit, he'll pull in more people, and you know people have short attention spans."

Yes. Excatly. 100% correct. People from this neck of the woods understand the nuances of Slump. We don't have to agree with Slump, but when he uses 4 different verb tenses in a mid-size sentence, we're not put off at all, we can understand what he wants to say. And yes, if he would curb his tendency to speak like that, he would definitely pull in more supporters.

D: "A lot of people both Republican and Democrats are sick and tired of the DYNASTY families, many of the Republicans I've spoken too are actually glad another Bush didn't win the nomination. Most felt he was a good enough fellow, but TIRED of the dynasty families and same went for the Clintons with some of the Democrats I've spoken too. Most their voting life it's been a Bush or a Clinton - people are tired of the two names."

Yes, a lot of people were tired of "Their" Dynasties in 08' election, too. Obama (from out of nowhere) won mainly because he wasn't a Clinton and was going to "make a break with the past" bring "Real Change" Hahahaha, his first appointment was Clinton --- because: What "They" Want "They" Get.

It's simple, "Time" is always on "Their" side:

Time is on my side, yes it is.
Time is on my side, yes it is.
Now you all were saying that you want to be free
But you'll come runnin' back (I said you would baby),
You'll come runnin' back (like I told you so many times before),
You'll come runnin' back to me.

Time is on my side, yes it is.
Time is on my side, yes it is.
You're searching for good times but just wait and see,
You'll come runnin' back (I said you would darling),
You'll come runnin back (Spent the rest of life with ya baby),
You'll come runnin' back to meeeeee........


Jae A (316)
Friday July 29, 2016, 12:52 pm
The convention might have been 'just a show' but it was an upper one...not the dark depressing hate filled that the GOP convention was. Personally I like a little entertainment via conventions that have uplifting tones to them. I thought the convention was very organized and that most speakers carried positive messages instead of hateful , doom and gloom as with the Republican convention. Anyway, they are history now but no doubt Trump will keep the 'show biz' aspects of campaigning going as well as the hate and gloom and doom , blaming the people instead of the leaders for all problems that only he can solve. Laughable at best but no one seems to be laughing, not even Trump supporters much less the Dems. Perhaps that's due to fact that only the Party Of Trump and the moderate Republican Party of Hillary are all that remain.

The Republicans have shown that the power really rest within Congress. They might not be able to pass things without the Prez signature but they quickly found that, like other Republican held congress in the past, they can simple do nothing and in their thinking that's a win for their side.

As for the not voting or 'so called throw away votes', being both wrong, I remind everyone that none of our votes made a difference in the 2000 election. The Supreme court decided who the winner would be. Also a proven fact in that election was that the voting machines were easily rig'd. Our voting system has become as some on this thread said about the convention....all for 'show'. The reality that follows it that our choices don't really matter if the 'powers that be want them not to matter. They can easily find a way to make them not count or be counted as they so see fit.

On that note...Bernie Sanders proved that Corporate dollars aren't needed to run an effective campaign. Trump has also proven that to be a fact ....thus far.

Sheryl G (359)
Friday July 29, 2016, 6:01 pm
Pretty much agree with you Jae except on one fact - I found it very dark and depressing.

The DNC shut off lights over Bernie protesters chanting "no more war" during former defence secretary Panetta's speech.

So that should tell you something - the Dem's always talking about their PEACEFUL easy feelings -

Not anymore folks - I thought the Convention was beginning to have the look and smell of the RNC.

After DNC literally tried to put them in dark, anti-war delegates turned on iPhone lights and some of them expecting this to happen wore day glo shirts.

When you can't chant in this Country No More War - we've lost. BIG TIME. So too have our International friends - if we still have any left.

The only thing more depressing than Trumps Wall along our Southern border was the WALL put up to keep out Progressive Democrats, Bernie supporters or anyone else wanting to have their voices heard. This 8 ft. wall was put all around the Convention Center, keeping any protest at bay by 4 miles!

Gee even the open carry gun toting Republicans were not kept that far away, from their Convention, just a 5 minute walk away.

See, my fellow Americans, everyone is happy, Hillary has won them all over, not a protest in sight, even the inside delegates had the light shut off over them.

What a crock.......I'll tell you. After this, even if I was thinking of voting for Hillary I wouldn't with this silencing of our voices going on, wasn't it enough for them to rig the election - now lets make sure it all looks so nice we are all singing and having a great time.

But Hillary isn't looking for those Progressive votes anyway - she wants the more moderate Republicans to join her. After all it's the warmongering Republican Party anyways, we lost the Democratic Party, it's that in name only. There is little left of the FDR goals and ideals. Oh lip service and a couple minor crumbs tossed to "make appearances."

Wakey wakey people -


JL A (281)
Friday July 29, 2016, 7:12 pm
Clinton's DNC Speech Lays Out a Progressive Agenda; Is It Too Little, Too Late?

JL A (281)
Friday July 29, 2016, 8:02 pm
Clinton's VP Pick Just Made Pro-Choice Groups Mad
Tim Kaine said on Friday that he would oppose repealing the Hyde Amendment.

and that repeal is in the new Party Platform too

JL A (281)
Friday July 29, 2016, 8:11 pm
UN Rep Slams US Police for Trampling Protesters' Rights
Recent police responses to protesters in Baton Rouge and other US cities violate international human rights law, the representative says.
"UN special reporter Maina Kiai concluded a 17-day tour on Tuesday, during which he met with protesters, law enforcement, and government officials in 10 cities—including Baton Rogue, Louisiana; Ferguson, Missouri; Baltimore; and New York City—and observed protests at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland and the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia, as well as Black Lives Matter protests in other cities"

Clinton Emphasizes Racial Justice, But Some Black Activists Are Unconvinced
Although she has relied on black support, the Democratic candidate has struggled to win over prominent Black Lives Matter figures.

Darren Woolsey (218)
Friday July 29, 2016, 11:36 pm
One thing is for sure, Dandelion. Under Clinton, the War machine will continue.

Shared above articles over social media, JL A.

Judy C (91)
Saturday July 30, 2016, 12:32 am
Well we made it through the Convention. There were some good speeches, but overall it was a tightly controlled, sterile affair with plenty of empty rhetoric and little substance. Clinton speech was long and mediocre. Did anyone else notice her speaking style being slightly different from the way it usually is? She seemed to be trying to sound decisive, perhaps more like a man would speak, but she came off as pompous and wooden. She also periodically got a rather wild look in her eyes, and I don't know what that was all about. She flips back and forth from being a doting grandma to being a bloodthirsty hawk, and Bill sits there beaming blissfully through it all. It just seemed somehow surreal. Bernie Sanders sat there looking like he was thinking, God I wish this would end.

I just read those last two articles you posted from MJ. JL.Those articles are both good JL. Clinton will pander to black people to the extent that it will get her votes. I was glad to see that UN Representative criticizing the repressive tactics of the police, and the impropriety of their militarization.

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Saturday July 30, 2016, 1:26 am
DN!, July 29, 2016 - ""Eat, Pray, Starve": Greg Grandin on Tim Kaine, Hillary Clinton & the U.S. Role in Honduras" =>On Wednesday night, Hillary Clinton’s running mate, Virginia Senator Tim Kaine, delivered a prime-time speech in which he spoke about the nine months he spent with Jesuit MISSIONARIES in Honduras in 1980 . To talk more about the significance of Tim Kaine’s time in Honduras, we speak with Greg Grandin, professor of Latin American history at New York University. His most recent article for The Nation is headlined "Eat, Pray, Starve: What Tim Kaine DIDN’T LEARN During His Time in HONDURAS."

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Saturday July 30, 2016, 1:29 am
The Nation, July 27, 2016 - "Eat, Pray, Starve: What Tim Kaine Didn’t Learn During His Time in Honduras" - "The vice-presidential nominee supports policies that hurt the country that was the “turning point” in his life."

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Saturday July 30, 2016, 1:45 am
Excerpt from the Nation article: "For the most part, criticism of Clinton on Honduras largely stayed on the margins of the primary process, even as the killing in Honduras continued and evidence mounted that Washington was once again funding old-school death squads (see the invaluable investigation by Annie Bird: TeleSUR, 12 April 2016, "US Counterinsurgency Policing Tactics Ravage Honduras" =>"The U.S. is pushing a counterinsurgency policing model for Honduras, while ignoring state corruption, impunity and violence. Meanwhile, corpses pile up." / Also: TeleSUR, 25 May 2015 - From Reagan to Obama: Forced Disappearances in Honduras =>“Hondurans today suffer not just from the terror of death squads but from the ravages of three decades of the implementation of neoliberal policy made possible by death squads.”).

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Saturday July 30, 2016, 2:39 am
Another take on Clinton's choice of Kaine as her running mate from Greg Grandin's piece in The Nation:

"Now, having beat back that part of the Democratic rank-and-file that cares about dead feminist activists in small Third World countries (Berta Cáceres, the Honduran indigenous environmental leader who was murdered --"early in Hillary Clinton’s primary contest against Bernie Sanders"-- "by a coup regime that Clinton, as secretary of state, helped consolidate in power"), the Clinton campaign has gone full Sun Tzi, turning its Honduran weak point into a strength, or, à la Karl Rove, its vulnerability into a virtue.

"In picking Virginia Senator Tim Kaine as her running mate, the campaign has front-and-centered Honduras—not as a victim of Clinton’s realpolitik neoliberalism but as a sacred space of healing poverty.

"Kaine, a Catholic, spent nine months in Honduras, from 1980 to 1981, in the Jesuit mission in El Progreso, very close to the company towns and plantations of the storied multinational banana company, United Fruit.

".../... Honduras “was really the turning point in my life. I was at Harvard Law School and didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life. And I took a year off and worked with Jesuit missionaries in Honduras,” Kaine told CNN’s Candy Crowley. .../... "

As soon as Clinton announced her pick, the liberal press converged, following the Clinton campaign’s talking points that spun Kaine as a progressive. “A Pope Francis Catholic.” Fine. To be expected. But that Honduras—Honduras!—is being highlighted as the beginning of Kaine’s conversion narrative truly is audacious. .../...
.../... "

Sheryl G (359)
Saturday July 30, 2016, 8:07 am
Thanks JL A and Lucy for the additional links some I've read others will have to be after my Woman's Circle.

Judy said: "She flips back and forth from being a doting grandma to being a bloodthirsty hawk, and Bill sits there beaming blissfully through it all. It just seemed somehow surreal."

I know Judy I had all I could do to sit want watch this.......was making my stomach churn.

Judy "Bernie Sanders sat there looking like he was thinking, God I wish this would end."

Can't blame the nightmare begins with the Trump vs Clinton nightmare; only to end up with which of the two nightmare scenarios we'll be dealing with. Let us hope some REAL checks and balances hold back some of the worse damages.

Jae A (316)
Saturday July 30, 2016, 2:48 pm
By the time I scrolled down to bottom of existing comments, I'm find that I'm now too tired to type much I began to read from bottom up to the point that I had previously read the comment s..and all's I can say now is.............

........sigh. [looking for a pillow to cover my face with so I can let out a scream and not panic the neighbors...most of who are Republicans so they panic and run in fear toward their loaded firearms easily .

JL A (281)
Saturday July 30, 2016, 7:14 pm
I'll provided some ironic yet hopeful news for you Jae: the majority in Congress who still support the TPP are now GOP. Reid and Pelosi have both recently very publicly opposed it. Prior Fast track vote forbids amendments and filibusters (I guess that's a detail Clinton forgot with her tweaking plans?). It seems to be the last thing Obama really wants from Congress...will the GOP give it to him despite their desire to block everything he wants? Only The Shadow Knows...

JL A (281)
Sunday July 31, 2016, 9:48 am
I long for the wisdom of Eisenhower governing foreign policy:

Angelika R (143)
Sunday July 31, 2016, 10:35 am
Wise words indeed. Once upon a time... until they began finding before them a golden age of oil and gas...
Over milk. wheat and wool nobody would have thoought of regime changes!

Angelika R (143)
Sunday July 31, 2016, 10:43 am
Contrast that by Eisenhower to what is coming now, as described here in this ugly piece in the right-wing hate- inspired, warmongering Tory paper:

Angelika R (143)
Sunday July 31, 2016, 10:57 am
PETITION to sign!: needs LOTS of signatures!
'CNN: Host a Jill Stein Townhall' -

Angelika R (143)
Sunday July 31, 2016, 11:19 am

Angelika R (143)
Sunday July 31, 2016, 11:27 am
OPEN LETTER to Bernie Sanders:

Darren Woolsey (218)
Sunday July 31, 2016, 12:38 pm
CHANGE.ORG petition
342 supporters
158 needed to reach 500
Signed and shared over social media.


100,000 signatures

Reshared over social media

Reshared Open Letter article over social media.


Jae A (316)
Sunday July 31, 2016, 1:20 pm
I do agree with you Dandelion that the Dem convention had it's share of disappointment....the big one being that Bernie wasn't making the acceptance speech. I guess what I meant by it being upper, especially if you are a Hillary supporter, was that it was well organized and the speeches had 'upper' content over that of the doom and gloom hate filled ones at the Republican convention.

Today I read that Assange is saying that he has a lot more to release about Hillary. Should that happen just before the election and if what he has is damaging, on top of things about her that are already out there...well I fear the worse if that happens. 'Kim Jung Trump' will end up being the first American Dictator. Hillary just has so much 'past' that has been hidden from public view....maybe not as much as Dubya Bush and Cheney...before after and their terms were was our economy..... but I feel that she probably does have too much that could come out, to have made her the choice for the Dems. this round...and that was a fear many were already aware of , even without the details.

No matter what happens this is for real one 'F'd up' campaign/election year. The fog just keeps getting thicker.........[sigh....puffpuffpass]

JL A (281)
Sunday July 31, 2016, 1:38 pm
Thanks for the petitions Angie (so sad some people don't know that now is by far the largest weapons sales period--with a far greater range of weapons of war---than ever before in the nation's history)...Jae thanks for confirming what I suspected about DNC emails since it seemed impossible there weren't significant exchanges between Clinton herself and DNC members and staff.

Sheryl G (359)
Sunday July 31, 2016, 3:16 pm
I just posted if anyone wants to give it a nudge as I believe some already signed that are on this thread.
Stop Hiding Who Is Funding the Convention Release Donor List

Also sorry Jae hate to rain further on it as to your disappointment. but....
Bernie Actually Won According To Election Justice USA

Angelika R (143)
Sunday July 31, 2016, 3:26 pm
Sheryl-perhaps you also might want to spread this info onto your threads and/or wider associates?
Important info if one wants to vote in the FL primary!
Deadline to register is MONDAY.

Darren Woolsey (218)
Sunday July 31, 2016, 3:27 pm
Signed and shared, Dandelion

JL A (281)
Monday August 1, 2016, 11:49 am
How The Democratic Party Lost In Philly
AKA the untold story the media and DNC didn't want people to know

Can Clinton Convince Skeptical Voters She’ll Fix The Economy?


Darren Woolsey (218)
Monday August 1, 2016, 12:15 pm
Well, if that article (shared over social media) is anything to go by, she is light weight on actual hard core measures to create these jobs, and buck up wages earned.

Angelika R (143)
Monday August 1, 2016, 1:44 pm
Very well written with pointed links that summary there by the Free Thinker Rutledge! Thx.
'Can Clinton Convince Skeptical Voters She’ll Fix The Economy?' Well, if about 60% say they don't trust her, I would think this issue is included there! It should be anyway!

Jae A (316)
Tuesday August 2, 2016, 2:47 pm
I have to post this, even if late on the thread...about a statement/comment I post above :

"Tuesday July 26, 2016, 2:34 pm
Almost left without passing my thanks along to Eleonora for her 'curiosity and the research info she proved ?"

I am not sure why but I typed a word that I did not have in mind...the last one of that was suppose to be 'provided' with a period at the end and not a question mark. Perhaps I was just tired and in need of a nap :-) or having a senior moment in time or what but it was in error. Please forgive that mistake Eleonora .

Thx to all....and please excuse my interruption

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Tuesday August 2, 2016, 3:30 pm

Hi Jae - there's no need for me to forgive you anything! Funny enough I read it the way you meant it as it didn't make sense otherwise ;-) - I'm easy on such things. Would I have had a question mark I would have come back to you!

Angelika R (143)
Tuesday August 2, 2016, 3:34 pm
LOL sweet! I am petty sure that ALL of us had figured that out right away! ;-) incl. Eleonora..which I am sure she'll tell you on her own if she's still tracking. These exhausting election/campaigning days CAN do a job on us as well, for sure! Hope you'll get enough rest and don't wear yourself out too much!

Jae A (316)
Tuesday August 2, 2016, 7:10 pm
@Eleonora , :-)

So right you are Angelika, my ol progressive brain is near the point of exploding due to all the insaniTea and Nazi propaganda and hate that is coming from the rightwing ...but it's also straining my thoughts from all the personal negative bantering between many on just this one thread, who are in fact.... all on the same side as being liberals / progressives.

The choices are clear regardless of anything prior to Clinton accepting the nomination ...Now it is up to each individual to decide for themselves just who it will be that they vote for.

I've decided not to promote/support Hillary but I do swear to campaign against Dictator Trump. He is the one that the most facts show to be the one none of us want as our President.

Fact is....Once in a voting booth, no one will know, for fact, who voted for who, at least they are not suppose to unless that person says who they did vote for ...but in reality did they ?

It's ok to discuss...agree or disagree with what should have been, our disappointments or support of the Dem. nominee .... who each of us really wanted to be the Democrat nominee but it's not healthy for us as a Progressive community, to rip each other into shreds...This is something I can't recall happening to this degree on care2 before. I only hope we'll all come to the common sense factor that tells us to save that for those who come here to show support for ...Trump. Those who are the ones I'm 'going on the defensive.....' ...aggressively .... against Trump. To me that might bring more people to vote for Jill or Hillary ...being the options that most are left with now that Bernie is out of the Presidential race which in the long run, all of those are votes against ...Trump....Who knows, perhaps enough combined to defeat him. His voting base is much much smaller than the media has portrayed it to be , especially at this time.
I have the feeling that the majority who wanted Bernie will vote for Hillary....but what do I know, I'm no physic....or am I.....LOL. To make that thought perfectly clear...I am not a physic but I am out to help defeat the most evil of all the Presidential candidates...Trump.

Anyway...Hillary or other choices, we're all speaking about the topic...our Democracy and how best to protect it from those who want to destroy it from within, so to say . In my book that is the one thing that worries me about Trump and his supporters. They appear to want to destroy it ... period. Personally I'm not ever going to be ready for a Dictator, be it Trump or anyone else.

Bottom line, for me; vote your conscience, as long as it's not telling you to vote for Trump which case that alone should tell a person they are in need of a mental health professional a.s.a.p. . Anything beyond hoping for the best, once we've voted for whoever from the dem./progressive/green parties .... seems to be the best advice anyone has offered any of us.

I seriously doubt that any of us can change the minds of who they are voting for after their having already made their choice , but the one thing we all agree on, or so it appears from the comments above, is that none of us on this thread support Kim Jung Trump....or Vladimir Trump, as some prefer calling him....but someone correct me if I'm wrong about that. To use a Republican phrase...I'm "locked and loaded" , but with 'anti-Trump' , using whatever words I can come up with to do so.... instead of firearms. Those are who I am waiting for, to appear on care2 threads.

Keep the Revolution's just common sense to do so......i.m.o.

JL A (281)
Wednesday August 3, 2016, 5:40 am
Good points and observations Jae. Revolution: I add that last night another Bernie backed candidate for Congress won their primary for the House (also DFA supported)-that's three so far (NY, WA and MD)...and FL has three possibles for the House plus Grayson for Senate against one with major DNC backing (latest polls have Grayson doing better against Rubio than who the DNC backed).

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday August 3, 2016, 6:54 am
Yup, already read that too, great success especially for Seattle champion Jayapal!

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday August 3, 2016, 10:56 am
More for the progressive base' enragement:

But even with these 4 traitors gone, don't fool yourselves into thinking that SPIRIT would be gone with them!

Sheryl G (359)
Wednesday August 3, 2016, 12:25 pm
Angellika and JL A - I must say it's been a long time to see even this much movement for a progressive lean. It has a long way to go, because there are a lot of them entrenched. Like Wasserman Schultz one of the DNC officials already had another position awaiting them. They might be scrambling but they haven't gone far. At least the tree is shaking.

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday August 3, 2016, 1:05 pm
Yup it is! and it'll keep shaking until eventually all rotten apples are falling down!

Judy C (91)
Saturday August 6, 2016, 12:31 am
As Jae says, we must vote our conscience. I will continue to condemn both Trump and Clinton. Jill Stein is the only choice that I can make, and adhere to my principles. I wish they would both be indicted. I can dream can't I? :-)

It's good to see some other corrupt individuals bite the dust, Angelika. however I'm afraid our whole political structure is pretty much rotten to the core.

Darren Woolsey (218)
Friday August 19, 2016, 6:10 am
You think ALL (or perhaps a significant amount of) the information that's posted on Clinton is misleading and paints her in a bad light?

federico bortoletto (44)
Saturday August 20, 2016, 10:12 am
Or, log in with your
Facebook account:
Please add your comment: (plain text only please. Allowable HTML: <a>)

Track Comments: Notify me with a personal message when other people comment on this story

Loading Noted By...Please Wait


butterfly credits on the news network

  • credits for vetting a newly submitted story
  • credits for vetting any other story
  • credits for leaving a comment
learn more

Most Active Today in US Politics & Gov't

Content and comments expressed here are the opinions of Care2 users and not necessarily that of or its affiliates.

New to Care2? Start Here.