Start A Petition

What ISIS Really Wants


World  (tags: ISIS, Daesh, ISIL, religion, beliefs, Dabiq, caliphate, Sharia, Baghdadi, jihadists, Muslims, Islam, Australia, London, apocalypse, Musa Cerantonio, takfir, psychopaths, Iraq, Syria )

Sheryl
- 1260 days ago - theatlantic.com
The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse. A long read but will give you a better understanding and how to stop it.



   

We hate spam. We do not sell or share the email addresses you provide.

Comments

Sheryl G (359)
Friday December 4, 2015, 7:01 am
This writer did an excellent job with this article. He really did his research and did some in depth coverage.

This is NOT one to skip over quickly. ISIS or Daesh is here with us no matter where we live. To understand what we are dealing with........to understand how you should vote or push your leadership......this is an IMPORTANT article.

Knowledge is key.....take time and really learn this one.

Otherwise your leadership will drag you down a path and it might not be the correct path, in fact could make matters worse. As this article has already showed that wrong decisions already have; we do not have a good track record here.
 

Pat B (356)
Friday December 4, 2015, 8:55 am
I'm not even half way through, as I pause for thought, and re-read a paragraph. Excellent read.

Thanks, Dandelion.

 

Animae C (508)
Friday December 4, 2015, 5:27 pm
Heavy & boring reading for me, my mind tends to switch off automatically from crudeness & violence ughhh but i really forced myself, i accept that knowledge is key.
So what i gather from the article is that ISIS or Daesh are die-hard orthodox, they follow the ancient violent abhorrent teachings of their prophet/god to the word & therefore all other followers of Islam throughout the world are in acts of apostasy & should be obliterated even before the infidels, us.
There's obviously many interpretations of the teachings, as there is of all other religions, so the president wasn't wrong in what he said, he was simply describing another sect.
To really have it 'sink in' i think i need to read it again.

Thanx Dande
 

Darren Woolsey (218)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 1:36 am
Yes, a very interesting read, Dandelion.

This paragraph near the end is interesting, and one which I agree with:

Properly contained, the Islamic State is likely to be its own undoing. No country is its ally, and its ideology ensures that this will remain the case. The land it controls, while expansive, is mostly uninhabited and poor. As it stagnates or slowly shrinks, its claim that it is the engine of God’s will and the agent of apocalypse will weaken, and fewer believers will arrive.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 5:11 am
This is why Darren it's important to dry it's sources of revenue from all directions and all Countries must be in on this, as none are it's ultimate friend. The west must stop sending in weapons because with no support from anyone income or arms wise it will shrink on it's own.

I appreciate that those who have come on here thus far has taken the time to read this. I KNOW it's a long read, but I figured it was important, no matter what Country we are from to understand who they are and what their thinking is behind all of this.

As citizens of our perspective Countries we need to know these things so that we can support or challenge our leadership to do the correct things. When the worlds people of their own Countries become apathetic to knowledge and what their leadership is doing they are merely being led by the nose and it might not be to the correct place that one is being led.
 

Patrick Donovan (344)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 9:55 am
I cannot see the difference between ISIS and the extreme right wing religious fanatics. People need to take a look at the numbers of which group has killed more in the US.
 

Patrick Donovan (344)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 9:59 am
I object to the article's position that ISIS represents Islam. They represent Islam to the same extent that the US religious extremists represent Christianity.
 

Winn Adams (179)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 10:18 am
I wish I had some answers as to how to stop ISIS but I don't. But, we can't give up on containing them and their hate. Extremists of any kind are a danger to us all.
 

Athena F (131)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 11:49 am
thank you
 

Janet B (0)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 12:32 pm
Thanks
 

Sheryl G (359)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 12:50 pm
They practice a very antiquated form of Islam Patrick, which is what is catching a lot of people. Just as people or most Christians don't practice the oldest forms of Christianity, most Muslims do not go way back to original.

When ISIS speaks, they are speaking clearly, as the article has said, they speak and use language from the earliest of times. They will also follow that code, even if that code places them at a disadvantage. This really is an article that REALLY needs to spend some time on as the writer really took the time to sit with people who fully understand ISIS, are scholars in that area.

Again, Winn said, I wish I had some answers as to how to stop ISIS, there is a way, by understanding these people, which this article brings a lot of information forward, there is a way to do this.

For instance this article said, the U.S. government consented to a desperate plan to save Peter Kassig’s life.
The Guardian reported that the U.S. government, through an intermediary, had asked Maqdisi to intercede with the Islamic State on Kassig’s behalf. However, the poor judgement only led to Kassig's head being shown on a video.

The article goes on: Cole Bunzel, a scholar who studies Islamic State ideology, read Maqdisi’s opinion on Henning’s status and thought it would hasten his and other captives’ death. “If I were held captive by the Islamic State and Maqdisi said I shouldn’t be killed,” he told me, “I’d kiss my ass goodbye.”

Kassig’s death was a tragedy, but the plan’s success would have been a bigger one. A reconciliation between Maqdisi and Binali would have begun to heal the main rift between the world’s two largest jihadist organizations. It’s possible that the government wanted only to draw out Binali for intelligence purposes or assassination. (Multiple attempts to elicit comment from the FBI were unsuccessful.) Regardless, the decision to play matchmaker for America’s two main terrorist antagonists reveals astonishingly poor judgment.

By not understanding what is within the "thinking" of ISIS there is very grave errors being made. I wouldn't of wrote off this article so easily. As I said requires some reading from start to finish....there is LOT in here.

 

Monika A (94)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 1:06 pm
The major question is : What Isis really needs. ISIS needs one good definitely punch to end this madness. They are not quitters,for sure, they wouldn't stop , they've got appetite for much more than this small area of the world.

I think some forms of ... so-called structure are more predestined to be treated with old good common sense , they don't understand civilised way of dialogue , moreover every attempt of dialogue are treated like a symptom of weakness, and are motivating ISIS to be more cruel.

One short global kick and this structure will squash easily like berries.
I wonder how long they can cock a snook, ere their days will out...
If ISIS go unpunished for such behavior, they have no reason to stop it.
 

Darren Woolsey (218)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 1:08 pm
Prolonged war and continued bombing is FEEDING two things; Firstly the hate perpetrated by those who feed off of hate in the first place. Secondly, the weapons manufacturers are currently ALL making profits from the sale of military equipment.
 

Ken O (55)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 1:11 pm
"The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths." Correct. The Islamic state is a construct of the CIA, founded and funded by the CIA. Even those in the Middle East know this. Al Qaida was as well, in fact CIA agents have come forward and said so. Now that "Al Qaida" has lost it's power to instill fear a new "enemy" had to be constructed, a more powerful and far reaching "enemy" that is even more sinister. This is the path to eternal Global War that the 1% wants. That way they can have more and more power to delve into every aspect of our lives in order to "protect" us. It's all a scam.
 

Roslyn McBride (26)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 1:14 pm
I think I've had more than enough about ISIS fanatics.
 

JinnySITEISSUES L (33)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 1:15 pm
I absolutely agree with Darren Woolsey......thanks for sharing.
 

Animae C (508)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 1:44 pm
i wish everyone would read the article.
 

Robert B (55)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 1:50 pm
Just like the Nazi SS, Isis actually believes it's own insane and flawed ideology, born of hate, greed and ignorance. Many people flock to them out of the belief that they are actually joining a noble cause. But the sheer vileness of this movement is causing it to collapse in on itself. Already many people under ISIS control are fleeing whenever they get the chance. They are short of Doctors, engineers and other necessary skilled people to keep it going. By not being able to maintain necessary services in ISIS controlled territory this flawed system is already failing. But just like the Nazis, there will be isolated ISIS fanatics for years to come. There's nothing worse than an armed ignorant jackass with flawed thinking.
 

Birgit W (160)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 2:05 pm
I totally agree with the comments of Patrick Donovan and Ken O. There is far more going on behind the scenes than we know, and the dark government of the US is involved with ISIS too. Thank you.
 

Rose Becke (141)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 2:28 pm
I agree with Brigit
 

M B (62)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 2:32 pm
Never underestimate extremists (no matter of what faith or country).
A huge 'thank-you-note' (sarcasm) to ALL, who created the 'playground' for ISIL aka Daesh or ISIS. Now our government (NVA party)wants to install the Patriot Act (!), as I read in the papers today.
For the rest I agree with P. Donovan.
thank you for posting, Dandelion
 

Lois Jordan (63)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 2:37 pm
Noted. Thanks, Dandelion.
It was definitely worth reading---well researched and explained. Although it seemed much was left out, I imagine it would take a very thick book to thoroughly explain it all. But, it does seem to me that the repression of the people of the Middle East during the long period of time they were ruled by Great Britain probably helped garner many of this faith towards radicalism. And, the recent "interventions" by the U.S. just re-stoked that.
I agree with others that "boots on the ground" are a big mistake; as well as further financial & arms support. Every time a drone bombs innocents, more "terrorists" are created as well.
This also seems to answer the question of why the recent mass murder in CA occurred---since both of the attackers, and family members of the male were at the July religious ceremony and heard that speech.

We must also remember that this is a very impoverished area of the world, that has been repressed by "royals." Climate change in Syria and other areas impoverished them even further because of drought. In this respect, they are not unlike U.S. Christian "fanatics" who constantly dismiss the needs of women, preach from the Old Testament, and want to return us to the Middle Ages. The parallels here are strikingly similar.
 

Mary Donnelly (47)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 3:47 pm
Thanks.
 

John De Avalon (36)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 3:53 pm
ISIS are losing territory in Syria and Iraq, though they are expanding into Sinai, Libya, Afghanistan and Libya, and their poisonous ideology could corrupt minds pretty much anywhere....

It was exactly the same in the 1880s with the Mahdi. The Dervishes were also inspired by dreams of a mighty caliphate and a key part of their dream centred on the prophecy of an infidel (British) army being annihilated on the plains at Omdurman. Something which the British commander, Kitchener, was later to use to his advantage with devastating effect.

Perhaps easy to dismiss such things as nonsense, but how many Christians firmly believed, or were at least open to the idea, that Jesus would come back in 2000? So believing this prophecy, no doubt many Muslims do.
 

John De Avalon (36)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 3:56 pm
Sinai, Libya, Afghanistan and Yemen that should say.
 

Angelika R (143)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 4:04 pm
Very long indeed and also somewhat confusing. It did for large parts at first leave a feeling of Islamophobia with me and only toward the end that got a bit cleared up. However, I'd still agree more with Patrick and,o f course, with Ken.
The article was written earlier and at a time where Americans could still be fooled into the belief that the administration was now really going after ISIS-lol, what a joke. That was only uncovered recently once after the Russians stepped in, leaving the US-coalition caugh twith their pants down. For having done zero.
And nowhere could I find a recipe "for how to stop it." as the sub headline claimed.
But thanks Sheryl.
 

Angelika R (143)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 4:10 pm
Monka just mentioned another key point and goal from start: France, Belgium and also we got our very own Patriot Act and sort of NDAA shoved down our throats, good job USA, thanks alot.
If people don't wake up ASAP to look through this sham, yet another as many times before, and stop this madness, then Putin will have no choice but to stop it!
 

Maryann S (112)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 5:35 pm
As you have said "Knowledge is key," thanks for sharing this video.
 

Dt Nc (0)
Saturday December 5, 2015, 11:14 pm
Danke
 

Arild Warud (174)
Sunday December 6, 2015, 3:54 am
I watched an hour interview with Paul Bremner on Al Jazeera last night and it's clear to me that the mistakes he and Bush/Cheeny made from 2003 created the beginning of what we today know as Deash.A big part of the Iraque Army simply dissapeared under his watch and they now are the backbone of the Deash leadership.Whatever is written in this lenghty article it never tries to explain the beginning of what we deal with today.It's probably good reading for Philosofers and Theologists.I agree with Obama when he said that Deash is a terrorist group with a great social network.
If we want to dismantle Deash we need to let the 3 groups in Iraque,Kurds,Sunni Muslims and Shiites Muslims divide the Country between themselfes and after we'll see where the chips fall.
 

Marco C (31)
Sunday December 6, 2015, 5:11 am
As usual Dandelion brings us meaningful and useful news.

Seems that suppressing human will never goes well. In the short term it may appear successful when confronted with force and violence. It is only finding another way to come forth and express itself. It always does and of necessity in a more perverse and distorted form. We continue to be fooled by the initial success of the force and suppression, we apply more and the result always is a more dramatic, perverse and shocking expression to that suppressed will.

We never seem to learn, constantly relapsing and giving in to our own initial primitive emotional response. Darrens' comment is spot on. There is always the profit motive. Plenty are in the wings lining their own pockets fanning the flames, gleefully cashing in on our poorly conceived, primitive initial response.

Perhaps if we were to view the aberrant behavior in its initial stage as a call for help, by victims distressed , overwhelmed and unable to cope in society we could guide and redirect that energy before it turns to tragedy and sucking us all into a vortex of a vile hateful confused existence marked by paralyzing fear.
 

Glenville J Owen (0)
Sunday December 6, 2015, 6:47 am
'In Him we live and move and have our being', the scriptures proclaim, and our purpose here on earth is to seek out this perfect power of Love within our selves, as taught by the Master, Christ Jesus, and use it correctly.
God, a name given to the All Life, the Creator, the Originator, is not a person but a Power, a perfect Power of Love. God is the only Power there is and all things are created by Him.
If we misuse our God power we do harm to ourselves. It is how we learn right from wrong, how to think of only good things, to love and not to hate.
Misguided people who hate will ultimately suffer the consequences of their evil thoughts and actions at some point in their eternal journey and receive no rest until they catch a glimmer of the light of Love which is God and journey back to Him once more, as told in the Master's parable of the 'Prodigal Son'...God Bless All.
 

Patricia Martinez (63)
Sunday December 6, 2015, 8:04 am


Thanks, Dandelion.

I thought a lot of the article was well-explained, but some of it is just a nod to PC, like "Muslims can reject the Islamic State; nearly all do. "

Well with ISIS having more Muslim recruits than the entire UK army, in fact, double the UK army, it is ridiculous and misleading to conclude that nearly all Muslims reject ISIS. And those who reject ISIS may very well support Al Qaeda.

There is the phenomenon of Islamic mendacity to further the aims of Islam, so if the Koran tells its followers to "smile at non-believers but hate them in your hearts," we can be on pretty firm ground to believe that a lot of the same people are saying that to give the impression that support for Jihad and Jihadi groups like ISIS are really just a minority. No, it's not, but much of it is deceptive and under the radar.

The giving of Zakat, Islam's form of alms, must in part go to MATERIALLY SUPPORTING JIHAD, money, food, weapons, etc. So many "peaceful" Muslims can still in this way partner with Mujihadeen by supporting them, and probably the majority of Muslim do. But since they let someone else do the fighting, then they can claim being peaceful.

To let Muslims who have left to fight with ISIS back into European countries where they can help the snowballing radicalization well underway, is a huge and growing problem, which we have only begun to see bear poisonous fruit.

ISIS may very well implode because of its sheer brutality and unsustainability. You can only bleed the natives so much before they have nothing left to give to ISIS. Bomb and utterly destroy the major money maker for ISIS: control of oil fields.

We should be supporting the Kurds, who get screwed throughout history, and who are active against ISIS, unflinchingly so.

We should NOT be supporting Turkey, which went from being a relatively secular state to an Islamist one under Erdogan, who is buying vast amounts of oil from ISIS, and supporting it in other ways. Turkey needs to be kicked out of NATO and certainly not let into the EU.

There have been many reports by Iraqi fighters that the U.S. has been, while maintaining it is fighting ISIS, supporting ISIS. Many have seen U.S. planes dropping bottled water to ISIS positions. So I'll agree with Angelika that we are really doing very little.

Just a couple of weeks ago the U.S. sent out a sortie to bomb an ISIS position, but couldn't because "it ran out of ammo.

The incredible excuse, swallowed by a gullible public that Obama didn't want to bomb oil fields because of global warming is glaring, and taken altogether, this seems like a policy of deliberate incompetency on the part of the U.S.

Glad to see there are other countries, that despite far smaller militaries, that are finally doing something, where our Commander-in-Chief is not, despite the talk, not doing the walk.

 

Janis K (129)
Sunday December 6, 2015, 10:34 am
Thanks for sharing.
 

Angelika R (143)
Sunday December 6, 2015, 10:59 am
These other countries, as Patricia(with whom I agree for once, on some points at least, one being Turkey) mentions, only decided in a speedy rush to step up now AFTER masses of ISIS fighters have either been hit or fled the area. For this, among other reasons theynow, and only now dare to enter where there's less resistance(SAM attacks) to be feared and can finally hit on the oil infrastructure to tackle the sourse.
Russia has been doing this for weeks already and they had good reasons and a perfect strategy (unlike Obama who had zilch) to also eliminate all other terrorist groups before taking on solely ISIS. The Iraqi forces are strong enough to now fight and eliminate what's left of ISIS in their territory and the same applies for Syria and their army.
The illegal oil trade is a topic all on its own and so is the multiple-sides game by Turkey.
 

Gillian M (11)
Sunday December 6, 2015, 11:09 am
Sadly, ISIS/Daesh follows the Islam that Mohammed set up and many Muslims, far too many, also support this ideoogy. Daesh is just one organisation but look at the others which are similar, Hezbolla, Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Boko Harem, Palestine Liberation Front, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Palestinian Relief Development Fund – Interpal, Fatah, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command - there are many many more and there is little difference between them.

The 5 most dangerous are

1. ISIS/Daesh
2. Boko Haram
3. Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps-Quds Force
4. Haqqani Network
5. Kataib Hezbollah

For more information on these 5 please go to The 5 Deadliest Terrorist Groups on the Planet
 

Janet B (0)
Sunday December 6, 2015, 12:27 pm
Thanks
 

LaurenBackSoon Kozen (173)
Sunday December 6, 2015, 2:04 pm
Excellent article. Thanks so much for posting Dandelion.
Noted & Shared.
 

David B (34)
Sunday December 6, 2015, 5:15 pm
Thank You as always Dandelion . excellent post. and not one to be read quickly . but very informative .
 

Colleen L (3)
Sunday December 6, 2015, 9:22 pm
Very informative article. I hope something positive happens to end their evilness soon. Thanks Dandelion
 

Bonnie Lynn M (1)
Sunday December 6, 2015, 10:09 pm
Thank you
 

Jonathan Harper (0)
Monday December 7, 2015, 12:26 am
NOTED!
 

Judy C (91)
Monday December 7, 2015, 1:28 am
I just finished the article, and read some parts two or more times. It is excellent, and I see some really good comments here. It is important to understand the distinction between ISIS and al-Qaeda, for example.

I think it is also important to note that there are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, 23% of the total population, according to Pew in 2010. We need to get some perspective on the numbers before drawing conclusions on Muslims. Pew has done some work on assessing the percentage of populations of various countries, including Muslims and other religions, who support ISIS.
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/pew-poll-63-mil-to-287-million-isis-supporters-in-just-11-countries/

I have to get to sleep, but in general, ISIS wants to establish a caliphate, in a certain geographical area, so this must be the prime consideration in fighting them. Thanks Dandelion for sharing this important information.
 

John De Avalon (36)
Monday December 7, 2015, 2:44 am
It is a vile philosophy, but a very clever one.

Extremist Muslims commit an act of terror, like in Paris.. In the wake of this non-Muslims react with suspicion and mistrust, even hatred, to all Muslims.
Muslims who don't generally integrate well at the best of times feel threatened and alienated. They start to see ISIS as heroes, champions, 'defenders of the faith', and hot-headed young men, certainly if they believe in the end times and 72 virgins nonsense, decide to join their ranks. So the potential for self-perpetuation is there.

At the core is hatred. If you get people hating another group, dehumanizing them, then you make it 'justifiable' and 'acceptable' to kill them without any qualms.
That's what the Nazis did with the Jews and the Slavs and the gypsies. (That's what Hamas have done with the Israelis, hence this stabbing campaign.)
 

Sheryl G (359)
Monday December 7, 2015, 8:45 am
Thanks all. Although most of us see Daesh as evil mass murdering even psychopaths there is a method to their madness. What the author was trying to do was give some insight into this madness that is based on the very beginnings of Islam.

As the earth's people have advanced, most people do not want to adhere to a lot of the ancient practices of major religions, all seem to have some "icky" places to put it mildly. The members of ISIS see that by not doing exactly as was said in the very beginning, they are not following the religion accurate, hence why it is not a problem to them to kill off other Muslims, because they feel those Muslims are not following the true Islam.......and they also would like the rest of the people who do not want to subscribe to their ways to be gone as well.

But in this knowledge, of how they think, there is the key.........they key to how they think is the key to how it is best to defeat them. I thought that this was for the most part an excellent article. We can always find a reason to disagree on a person's particular writing as too long, omitted this or that, was a bit unclear for a certain section, but overall, this article really allowed me to understand a lot more than I did.

I try to be an informed voter, I try to be an informed citizen, how can I question or critique my own Country and how my leadership is dealing with this if I'm not even sure who, how, what, where, Daesh is all about. I feel a bit more informed after this article in addition to other articles I've read.

Thanks so much for those who read it, whether it was your cup of tea so to speak or not. We are all being affected by Daesh one way or the other, best we do what we can to learn.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Monday December 7, 2015, 1:40 pm
I read this shortly after it first came out, and there are a few things worth adding:

First, we should not confuse ISIS with its allies. While they fight alongside one another, they have different motivations and what works to defeat one may not work against the others. ISIS first became a major threat when it won credibility and then support among Iraqi rural tribes. Their members deserted from the Iraqi army, taking equipment and training with them. Those tribes are typically motivated more by paranoia and self-interest (each as a unit) than anything else.

Second, this is exactly in line with something I've been saying here for a long, long time: The trouble in the Middle East is that societies rooted in the homogeneity-driving social structure-paradigm of the Caliphate do not progress along with the rest of the world. On top of that, with mass-literacy and numeracy being new things, time might as well not pass. We see this both in ISIS mythology and recruiting-rhetoric, and in statements of goals: Look at how often they talk about defeating what we might consider a relatively minor player, Italy. They're still talking about defeating Rome. I kept saying that the foreign policies of Western countries, whether the U.S. invasion of Iraq, general support for Israel, etc. have little or nothing to do with causing the trouble there, and this is why. To change a culture at the level required, Western powers would have to rule the territory, separate children from their parents, and forcibly indoctrinate them in specially designed schools (as was done in Canada). We're not seeing that. What we are seeing is a more successful version of what al Qaeda's pre-bin Laden leadership wanted for that organization decades ago, and what has probably motivated political factions and militias in the area in a fairly steady line going back to at least about the 1200s.

Third, this is why I'm really, really worried about Turkey. The next goal on their list is to take "Constantinople", now Istanbul, which was the capital of the Eastern remnant of the Roman Empire, Byzantium. That city is at the other end of Turkey, and ISIS knows it cannot defeat a full-blown NATO state. I get the impression ISIS-operatives are playing politics in Turkey, to take it by the ballot rather than by force. After Erdogan dismantled the army's mechanism of protecting the separation of religion from the state in a sweep of arrests of officers from the top to the bottom for "wielding undue influence" (through bribery), ISIS may well succeed. It's also the reason, I think, they're not really going after Israel: In their timeline, they fight in Jerusalem after they get defeated in the East, which comes after they fight "Rome", which comes after they take Istanbul. Western powers should probably be concentrating on Turkish domestic politics right now.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Tuesday December 8, 2015, 6:01 am
Very true Stephen, they are following a playbook.....if you know the playbook you know where ISIS is going and why.
 

Angelika R (143)
Tuesday December 8, 2015, 7:01 am
For once I'd have to agree for large parts with Stephen there, surely as for Turkey and the Sultan's's own plans!
As daesh has already formed what they call their "cub caliphate", i.e. child soldiers, containment alone or defeat won't do in the long run either. The wahabist sunni barbaric beliefs will live on and be carried further.
Thus, it is PARAMOUNT and should be the coalitions first goal-which sadly it ISN'T- to STOP supporting the house of Saud! Not to mention the Saudis being the largest importers of US weapons.
In summer, at the time of discussing the JCPA (Iran nuke deal) it was reported they even demanded from US to get the next closest equipment to Israel's "military edge" or else would seek nuclear armorment with the help of Pakistan. Go figure...
This unholy liason, merely to avoid Iran getting a stronger regional power and thus forming the block Russia-Syria-Iran against the Golf states, US' and Israel's interest, is the real blocker of peace in Syria, a traditionally secular country. Only now these forces are hellbent to turn in sunny for that very reason.
You bet your bottom $ the Russians will NOT let that happen.
Trouble ahead for the next "Vienna III", i.e.Syria group summit on 18 Dec in probably NYC....
 

Angelika R (143)
Tuesday December 8, 2015, 7:09 am
Having seen a number of websites and comments on the matter, it is clear and thankfully a great development that more and more people have opened their eyes and realised what a scam this whole "fight against ISI/L" was! The coalition has done their best over 4,5 yrs to avoid rooting out their mobile asset, under the flimsy pretence to avoid"human(civilians) and environmental collateral damage"-LOOL ..as if that had EVER mattered, be it drone strikes(we know the stats!) or their other wars.
 

Angelika R (143)
Tuesday December 8, 2015, 7:12 am
Stephen unfortunately also forgot to point out that neither is Turkey going after daesh.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Tuesday December 8, 2015, 12:14 pm
Hi Angelika :)

I have a couple of ideas why the U.S. continues to support the House of Saud:
First, there are a lot of Americans who are only capable of seeing conflicts as two-sided. Remember Sam insisting that because Israel opposes Hezbollah, that must mean it sides with ISIS? In a three-or-more sided conflict, it's anybody's guess which way the U.S. will jump. Then this happened:
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2015/03/Sharro_Diagram/original.jpg
That may also be what's going on with people thinking ISIS is somehow a Western asset in a conflict with Russia. Just for an idea of how strange that would be, consider how badly Romney was mocked during the U.S. 2012 presidential campaign when he called Russia the U.S.'s greatest geopolitical foe: Nobody in dominant political circles thought of working against Russia, and that was after ISIS started claiming territory (though before Russia took Crimea after Obama withdrew forces from the area in the "relations reset" at the start of his presidency).

Second, the House of Saud is divided between "reformists" and "radicals". The current version of the House (from the 10th century) was effectively founded when Abdulaziz got married twenty-something times, into the leading families of every tribe in the country. Rather than a single faction having taken over, like in other royal families, this one is a bunch of disparate groups with a hierarchy. The "reformists", dominant in Riyadh while radicals dominate rural areas, even if they don't push for something we would actually like, do push for something a whole lot better than how Saudi Arabia currently is. They fight against the movement from which ISIS arose, and while we occasionally see violence, they are on the front line every day against its ideological foundation. Defeating the movement, rather than just whichever organization it spawned that happens to be dominant right now, is the key to actually winning the war. We could destroy ISIS, but then its rank-and-file would just find another similarly minded militia to join. If Saudi reformists win, no matter what happens or doesn't happen to any given organization, the movement loses a large part of its recruitment pool. The U.S. government is trying to play Saudi politics, strengthening the reformists against the radicals. I don't think it's doing a very good job, and I agree with Angelika here: Those weapons may end up pointed at us in a few years, after they're done fighting in Yemen with massive civilian casualties.

What I would do to influence Saudi Arabia is try to get the Saudis take whichever Syrian refugees they want, house them wherever in the country they want as long as they grant immediate citizenship, with the housing handled on Western funds if necessary. Let the rulers in Riyadh vet the refugees politically and place them where their votes would tip the scales for the elected regional governments, undermining radical leaders. It would ignore the Convention on Refugees and undermines what democracy there is in Saudi Arabia, and get conspiracy-nuts thinking the West had engineered the crisis to get those refugees to use for this purpose, but at least it would have a chance of success, get a lot of people out of the war, put the refugees somewhere they can be effectively screened, and not be dumping more weapons into the area.
 

Kamia T (89)
Tuesday December 8, 2015, 2:47 pm
Anyone who has read the full Qu'ran knows that what every believing Muslim has to want is the complete destruction of anything non-muslim and the adoption of the faith by every living person on the planet. There is no "toleration" in this religion, sorry.
 

Gene J (287)
Wednesday December 9, 2015, 12:15 pm
" No one has tried harder to implement strict Sharia by violence. This is what it looks like."

Well, that was interesting. I think anyone dismissing Daesh as irrelevant is making a very big mistake. I also think that our President will be more in need of a continuing protective detail than perhaps any other as the non-Muslim son of a Muslim and therefore, in the eyes of Daesh and those who believe its path is the only one, an apostate, one whose demise would elevate the caliphate in the eyes of those who wish to believe that a return to the 6th century is not only required but inevitable. There are those who interpret the Bible in much the same way and believe in the "end times" in much the same way. They are all wrong, but saying so and remaining alive isn't as easy as one might think for these are deadly violent men believing as strongly as any cult that came before them that death to their oppressors is the only possible just outcome of life in this world. They are and will remain a danger to us all.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Friday December 11, 2015, 9:02 am
Excellent point you bring up about our President. At such times the Secret Service has been most lax, hasn't it.

I see our Climate Deniers, many of whom claim the Christian faith, pushing us to the 6th Century along with the Daesh. They might be doing it in their own way, but when you ignore the pollution, the toxins, and whatever is being dumped into our waters, air, and our foods, they too hasten us back to a collapse of civilization as we know it.

Remember it took near a 1,000 years after the fall of Rome that sent the human race in many parts of the world back into what is referred to as the Dark Ages. Climate is for all of us so I don't think there will be too many areas that will escape this time.
 

Angelika R (143)
Friday December 11, 2015, 9:12 am
At this point, particularly after yesterdays 2-day pretty chaotic Conference in Riad ended the way it did, it may be more or as worthy to place on a post about what the US, Israel and especially Saudi Arabia really want!
 

Angelika R (143)
Friday December 11, 2015, 9:14 am
Not to forget the other players like Turkey and the Kurds... oh, and btw I read the Mexicans are also involved fighting the headchoppers, pissed at spoiling their cartel ;) stuff is getting remixed as it looks.
 

Gene J (287)
Friday December 11, 2015, 4:59 pm
I agree, Dandelion. Our own 1% and the republican party, along with those who would impose insane restrictions on others according to their religious beliefs are no different than Daesh. That they exist in the 21st century, as does Daesh, but wish to impose their particular religious views on books that were written 2000 and more years ago or 1400 years ago, does not make them less dangerous. Our extremists are every bit as dangerous to the world as is Daesh. If ours were to gain control, which they won't, they'd exterminate all who oppose them, as would Daesh. You cannot reason with people who see reason as apostasy. You can only oppose them, and if necessary, fight them. History shows that sometimes, people of peace must use violence to prevent a greater harm. We need only look back as far as Hitler to see the truth of that statement. Had people of peace not taken up arms the world would be a very different place than it is.

Sometimes people of peace must defend that basic human right or lose it altogether. Where did Cromagnon man go? Displaced by homo sapiens, not easily, I think. If you will not defend what is your truth, then you will lose it. That is the history of history on this planet.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Saturday December 12, 2015, 7:05 am
Thanks Angelika for bringing in these new points. I too read about the Mexicans involvement....is this how they are going to pay for Trumps wall? Anyways a mess and with so many players coming in we are having us a situation that anything and everything can go wrong.....and is.

Always the most innocent that pay the price unfortunately........and that price tag is climbing in both blood and treasure.

Thank you Gene. I recall a wise statement by Spotted Tail "This war did not spring up on our land, this war was brought upon us by the children of the Great Father who came to take our land without a price, and who, in our land, do a great many evil things... This war has come from robbery - from the stealing of our land."

We must learn when it's "just" to step in and when it is wiser not to. Certainly going into Iraq and even too long in Afghanistan might not of been "wise". The reason I've been posting various items concerning Daesh is so that people can do some critical thinking as to what is the wisest move. Sometimes nothing is better if something makes matters worse.
 

Melania P (123)
Wednesday March 16, 2016, 11:12 am
Kill them all
 

Darren Woolsey (218)
Wednesday March 16, 2016, 12:35 pm
No.

Once one lowers one's self to the level of killer, one loses all sense of humility and conscience.

Plus, it's NOT, repeat NOT all Muslims who want death and destruction to all Non-Muslim. Buy into that deluded, diluted narrative, and you're doing the sects/cults work for them.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Wednesday March 16, 2016, 4:35 pm
Thanks Darren for getting here quickly. Kill them all? All who? Isn't that was ISIS is doing? How well is their image in the world? And who is going to do the killing? You? Remember the adage, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
 
Or, log in with your
Facebook account:
Please add your comment: (plain text only please. Allowable HTML: <a>)


Track Comments: Notify me with a personal message when other people comment on this story


Loading Noted By...Please Wait

 


butterfly credits on the news network

  • credits for vetting a newly submitted story
  • credits for vetting any other story
  • credits for leaving a comment
learn more

Most Active Today in World





 
Content and comments expressed here are the opinions of Care2 users and not necessarily that of Care2.com or its affiliates.

New to Care2? Start Here.