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After I Lived in Norway America Felt Backward Here Is Why


Society & Culture  (tags: Nordic model, democratic socialism, Norway, equality, fairness, capitalism works for the people, Finland, Sweden )

Sheryl
- 1002 days ago - thenation.com
Nordic model is a smart and simple system that starts with a deep commitment to equality and democracy. That is two concepts combined in a single goal because as far as they are concerned you can not have one without the other. Americans read and weep.



   

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Comments

Animae C (507)
Friday May 20, 2016, 7:35 pm
Sadly the US is going backwards, as we too will in Australia if the 'bull' isn't ousted in July : (

Bhutan's model very interesting too, Dandelion

http://www.care2.com/news/member/312733850/3984910
 

Sheryl G (359)
Friday May 20, 2016, 7:39 pm
Some excerpts within the article:

In Norway, capitalism serves the people. The government, elected by the people, sees to that.

Maybe our politicians, in USA, don’t want to talk about the Nordic model because it shows so clearly that capitalism can be put to work for the many, not just the few.

In the United States, oligarchs maximize their wealth and keep it, using the “democratically elected” government to shape policies and laws favorable to the interests of their foxy class. They bamboozle the people by insisting, as Hillary Clinton did at that debate, that all of us have the “freedom” to create a business in the “free” marketplace, which implies that being hard up is our own fault.

In 1996, President Bill Clinton signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act, obliterating six decades of US social-welfare policy “as we know it,” ending federal cash payments to the nation’s poor, and consigning millions of female heads of household and their children to poverty, where many still dwell 20 years later. Today, even privileged women, torn between their underpaid work and their kids, are overwhelmed.

The international organization Save the Children cites Norway as the best country on earth in which to raise kids, while the United States finishes far down the list, in 33rd place.

*******I suggest reading the entire article from start to finish. Why people want to keep this stranglehold over us instead of pushing harder for something like Norway is beyond me. Must be gluttons for some sort of punishment.

Thanks Arild for the article.
 

Rose Becke (141)
Friday May 20, 2016, 10:35 pm
True AniMae
 

Darren Woolsey (218)
Friday May 20, 2016, 10:58 pm
Shared over social media, to spread awareness, Dandelion.
 

Past Member (0)
Friday May 20, 2016, 11:54 pm
Bernie Sanders dream for the US is similar. Also, Dr. Jill Stein of The Green Party. I bet Elizabeth Warren would play well on that team. What a dream I have!! Thanks Dandelion. As you say, "read 'em and weep"!!
 

Evelyn B (63)
Saturday May 21, 2016, 3:15 am
Excellent article -

"Political scientists say it has become an oligarchy, run at the expense of its citizenry by and for the superrich. Perhaps you’ve noticed that. "
I think the warped state of US democracy has become even more blatantly evident through these Primaries - and each day I wonder "can they get worse", and every few days, the answer is "YES".

I wonder how many US citizens living IN the US realise how far they've moved from "DEMOCRACY" ...
I suspect that more of US expats are aware

Ros shared a powerful link - "America" Land of the Free and Home of The Brave .... Food for thought, stunned the panel & the audience ...
 

Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Saturday May 21, 2016, 4:11 am
"What Scandinavians call the Nordic model is a smart and simple system that starts with a deep commitment to equality and democracy.
That’s two concepts combined in a single goal because, as far as they’re concerned,
you can’t have one without the other.
Right there, they part company with capitalist America,
now the most unequal of all the developed nations,
and consequently a democracy no more.
and consequently a democracy no more.
and consequently a democracy no more.
and consequently a democracy no more.

Political scientists say it has become an oligarchy,
run at the expense of its citizenry by and for the superrich.
Perhaps you’ve noticed that."
 

Evelyn B (63)
Saturday May 21, 2016, 12:22 pm
It's worth reading also: Millions Now Understand That Capitalism Needs Socialism to Work, Which Is Why Bernie Is So Popular
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 5:10 am
Simple but fruitful
 

Sue L (71)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 5:29 am
Very interesting reading. Thanks for sharing Dandelion.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 6:25 am
Keep drinking the kool aid John. Remember when we are in this Country we are Americans, all of us, that is the cloth that binds. Besides, back in the beginning of the 20th Century and even before, we had people coming from all Countries and spoke all sorts of languages.

We had Swedes, Italians, Germans, Polish, Irish, English, Greeks, lots of various backgrounds - and you know what they did John - they came together and stood up for the human RIGHTS of them all. So they formed Unions and raised the standards for all of them, higher pay, shorter work days, and better safety standards on the job also pulled their children out of the mines and the sweatshops and into schools. They stood up as American human beings.

Because no matter what one has for an ethnic background, one thing everyone has in common is being a human. People know when they are hungry, when they are cold, when they are being shafted and robbed. They all had something in common, they were working long hours for low wage, at the end of the day they had rags to wear and their children had to work too in order that everyone had something to eat.

So that is the BS that Corporate America would like to keep going out there and as you told me John on another thread - I guess I'll send those same words back to you. John you should be ashamed of yourself keeping the people oppressed while passing along the Oligarchy propaganda.
 

. (0)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 7:55 am
tyfs Dandelion
 

Evelyn B (63)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 9:14 am
John G - can you explain why multi-ethnicity impacts negatively on the possibility of applying social equality norms?

Unless, of course, one has demographic/ ethnic groups that can't consider others as meriting the same equality ....

Yes, Norway is expensive for those earning by standards of other lower income countries and just visiting - but remember, they don't have to spend a sizeable part of their income on health care, repayment of student loans etc, so what they earn & what have in their bank accounts is for living .... It's a different way of balancing the budget (without the same "debt" cloud hovering somewhere). Ethnicity as such doesn't play any differentiating role in this ....

I'd rather live in an economy with a higher cost of living (paralleled with higher average incomes for the ordinary people) but knowing that I can access health care, that if my family want to go to university they won't be burdened for decades with debts as a result ....

(And when people living & working in Norway go abroad - other than to other Scandinavian countries - their normal holiday money allows them luxuries!!! )

Oh, yes:
Net migration rate for Norway: 7.96 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2014 est.) Index Mundi - Norway Demographics Profile 2014
Net migration rate for the US 2.45 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2014 est.) Index Mundi - United States Demographics Profile 2014

Could it be that you have some filters on your perception of Norway's situation?
 

Sheryl G (359)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 9:42 am
Thank you for bringing out additional points Evelyn. I certainly was in hopes someone would.
 

Avril Lomas (0)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 12:35 pm

Simply put.
Along with Western European countries.
IT IS!!
 

Donna G (42)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 12:58 pm
I spent one summer vacation in Denmark. My dad had a temporary duty assignment there. He had to stay for about 6 months. But, what an awesome country Denmark was and probably still is. Even as visitors, we were given medical care when it was needed. I did not learn any of the Danish language; but, just about every body is taught English while in school. Thinking back to my time in Denmark, I just never forget how happy everybody seemed compared with what I see in the United States.

There is a filthy, dirty word (sarcasm is mine) which seems to offend many Democrats, most Republicans, and certainly millionaires and billionaires. Oh, and let me not forget Corporations. That word is TAXES! Without taxes, we would not have any social programs. We would not have public libraries, fire departments, police departments. Oh, let me also mention schools. Taxes are not a bad thing.

Imagine if Bernie Sanders does win the nomination and can implement many of the social programs he would like to happen, it means that students would no longer be incurring debt from student loans which might take them 20 years or more to pay off. Families would not go bankrupt due to medical bills, and the economy would perk up since people would be able to spend money on consumer goods since they would not have to spend it on medical care or education. There are so many other benefits to implementing a system similar to what is found in Scandinavia.

The California primary is on Tuesday. If Bernie gets 85% of the vote, he will win all of the delegates from that state. There are a lot of delegates. So, if you are in California, I encourage you to vote for Bernie Sanders. You can check your registration status on line; but, Monday (tomorrow) is the last day to register. If you are not registered, I believe that you can also register on line.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 1:17 pm
Thank you Donna. One of the reasons that taxes are now considered a dirty word is it was also equated with racism. Check out this short minute and half video to find out why.
Infamous 1981 Interview on The Southern Strategy

Vote Bernie CA - Help us all!
 

Birgit W (160)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 1:26 pm
Excellent article. Thanks for sharing Dandelion.
 

Lois Jordan (63)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 2:40 pm
Noted. Thanks, Dandelion.
Donna really hit the mark with "taxes" being the "dirty word." And, what are our U.S. taxes spent on? War, war and more war. Our military is more than twice the size that China has, and also larger than the 10 countries combined that spend the most money on their military.
Norway and other countries don't have to spend their tax dollars on a military, that is why they are able to spend it on the people.
The U.S. media has decided that we have to "BE #1" and police the rest of the world. We have to retain our SuperPower status. I say NO. We are losing all our money on ridiculous wars that the media fearmongers us into.
Yes, the Military-Industrial-Corporate-Complex is sucking up all our funds, while the wealthiest pay less and less in TAXES. A formula for our own self-destruction.
That is why I want Bernie on the Dem ballot. The other candidates will be happy with the status quo, or they will probably just make things even worse for 99% of us.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 2:52 pm
True to richest among us make money from having wars that the poor and middle classes have been asked to pay. At the same time there is less tax monies going into things that the poor and middle classes need to have fruitful lives.
 

Maryann S (112)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 7:18 pm
Great article. Thanks for sharing Dandelion
 

Colleen L (3)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 9:39 pm
Sad to think that the US is going backwards. Great article. Thanks Dandelion
 

Bryan S (105)
Sunday May 22, 2016, 10:14 pm
Great article that describes things well. Many Americans are suckers that have been sold this idea that freedom for big business to do anything it wants, and have as much influence it wants, somehow equals personal freedom. I think a lot of it is nationalism (a horrible mental disease) where people think that if America does it then it must be right, instead of thinking that America should do what is right.

Also reminds me of a clip i saw on Fox News today. You do have to watch Fox to understand how thick the propaganda is, and it always disheartens me to think that people believe it. (Of course i've heard a few times that 20% of Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth.) Anyway they were showing some clip of people in the street in Venezuela and saying that's an example of "Bernie's paradise". Then it got even crazier and it was explained that Bernie Sanders's ideas have been discredited because the USSR failed. I'm not kidding. And the the Dem party via Clinton peddles the same economic BS and nationalism minus the overt crazy.



 

Doris F (19)
Monday May 23, 2016, 1:46 am
excellent article, thank you for sharing Dandelion
 

Darren Woolsey (218)
Monday May 23, 2016, 2:09 am
Evelyn, one of the few reasons I can think of where multi-ethnicity makes thinks more difficult, is the sheer number of different backgrounds people have originated from, and their respective levels of education and also the conditioned bias with which their own society and culture has been inculcated in.

All in all, people need quality information to be able create self-knowledge, from which their lives can contribute to a greater enrichment of the environments they are in now.

THAT isn't happening within the present Corporate Capitalist model.
 

Arild Gone for now (174)
Monday May 23, 2016, 3:01 am
You're welcome Sheryl.

This article I put on for John Gregoire's benefit:

What Makes Scandinavia Different?

What accounts for the Nordic countries’ strong welfare states? Hint: it’s not white homogeneity.
 

Iona Kentwell (129)
Monday May 23, 2016, 6:10 am
This is a brilliantly written article. I hope people take the time to really think about these ideas.
 

Evelyn B (63)
Monday May 23, 2016, 7:36 am
Darren
I don't believe "quantity" of multi-ethnicity is a problem as such - it can even be more enriching ...

I believe it is fear - & closely linked, lack of understanding - of "difference" that creates problems - where people close down into their "own" community of "alikes" ....

I've been lucky - I was brought up in a family that was open to a number of different ethnic contexts. My parents' friends were not only Anglo-Saxons but also Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs; They came from parts of Asia & Africa. Later, we lived in Turkey & Lebanon, and my life was lived among Turkish & Western Christians, Turkish Muslims of different sects, Armenians, Greeks, Arab Jews, Arab Christians (Western & Eastern cults), Arab Muslims (different cults), Druzes ... I realised very young that most core values were shared across these different groups, although they were expressed differently. Most of the time, we just didn't think about the differences, we just adjusted when necessary - and we enjoyed all that we shared. The same applied to thos who were "different" due to various disabilities - adjusting when necessary, sharing & enjoying the togetherness. Yes, I was lucky to have such a great start ...

Thanks Arild for that link - interesting article!

But why do so many people think Bernie wants to "ADOPT" a model from Europe?

What I've heard is a call to LEARN from European social welfare models.

LEARN means - see what works, & how .... and what doesn't work so well, why, & how ...
I would hope that this process also takes into account other (non-European) models ..

Logically, the next step would be to analyse how the best of the different systems could be ADAPTED to the US context .... So a US system would apply the valid principles, echo the best, but also be tailored to the US context, building on what is already in place where this lends itself to what meets the needs.
 

Gene J (290)
Monday May 23, 2016, 9:17 am
The article was wonderful. And should be the model for the world. We'd all be in a much better place were that the case. It isn't impossible, it isn't even an idealistic dream, the only thing preventing it is greed and we really should ALL be better than that by this stage of our evolution. One day we will be and will look back at this period of our history as our terrible two's in terms of moral and spiritual growth.
 

Janet B (0)
Monday May 23, 2016, 11:07 am
Thanks
 

Rhonda B (99)
Monday May 23, 2016, 11:16 am
Thank you for sharing Dandelion.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday May 23, 2016, 12:25 pm
Very good article.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday May 23, 2016, 2:34 pm
Thanks D,

Oh my......my memory is a slippin'. I thought I had already commented on this article?!? Great article, well written from personal experience and well researched. I could be cutting and pasting pieces all day long it's so good. I lived overseas, and I know as fact that many of the points Ann Jones explains and compares are T-R-U-E!

"It’s not perfect, of course. It has always been a carefully considered work in progress. Governance by Consensus takes time and effort. You might think of it as slow democracy. Even so, it’s light-years ahead of us."

Look folks, no system is perfect, but what we have happening here is near total disconnect from our representative government. The chasm is so wide, you can drive a galaxy through it. We need to end the two-party illusion and try Democratic Socialism.

Both side are to blame, but the greater percentage goes to a republican party that has been a nightmare for America since 2000. In order to save their hollowed out party and our rotten two-party system for their "Masters" after the 2008 Collapse, republicans literally put the future of the USA on hold by obstructing legislatively + endless partisan hearings going nowhere but costing a fortune in tax money.

As a result, we are lagging behind the rest of the world in SO many ways. We can't even get a basic like clean water right in 2016, it's a disgrace, it's a crime.

 

Sheryl G (359)
Monday May 23, 2016, 3:50 pm
I agree with everything you said Randy except one spot......I'd place the Republican nightmare beginning with the election of Ronald Reagan in 1981. I watched it go all downhill since that time.....
 

Past Member (0)
Monday May 23, 2016, 6:40 pm
Dandelion: "I'd place the Republican nightmare beginning with the election of Ronald Reagan in 1981"

Yes, I was there, too in 81'. I should have phrased it, "contemporary republican nightmare".

Truth is both sides are nightmarish, two sides of the same ONE party.....it's been like that for at least a century....helping each other out of serious jams, passing each other's legislation (ACA being the latest), conspiring to keep a multi-party America from being born....self-preservation has been their top priority.

The most diverse country on the planet has only one political party more than a dictatorship -- for over two centuries?! Go figure. It's time for the "wings" in our two-parties to fly out of the nest and build their own new homes.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Monday May 23, 2016, 7:09 pm
Oh I agree with the two (one) Party both selling us out..... I don't let the Democrats off the hook. I've always said this is like having the mafia families. Most the time they get along and help each other out when it does benefit them all, which is most of the time. However once in awhile they do take a shot at each other.....But the rest of society has no say or they are suppose to do as we say.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Monday May 23, 2016, 7:09 pm
do as "they" say....typo above
 

Past Member (0)
Monday May 23, 2016, 8:37 pm
D wrote: "I've always said this is like having the mafia families. Most the time they get along and help each other out when it does benefit them all, which is most of the time. However once in awhile they do take a shot at each other...."

Yes, 'once in a while they take a shot at one another' to keep it on the up and up.

We need more expression in our political parties. Two parties simply will not do anymore. After 200 years, they have been thoroughly gamed at every level leaving American citizens de-leveraged and nearly powerless.

There are 195 sovereign nations in the world, only 7 are two-party countries: Nicaragua, Honduras, Ghana, Jamaica, Malta, Japan, United States. Here's a small list of countries with multi-parties: Australia, Canada, Ireland, UK, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, and Germany.

Why does our very diverse country have only two-parties?!

FEC has to be re-organized and new rules for parties, campaigns, and equal media access have to be drawn up. Our wings could be spun off to form new parties.

What would our politics be like if there were say 6 or 10 parties like these for example:

The Green Party
The Independent Party
The LGBT party
The Libertarian Party
The Liberal Democrat Party
The Christan Republican Party
The Conservative Republican Party
The Atheist Party
The Civics Party
*The Silly Party

It would be more difficult for the financial lizards to corrupt all 6-10 parties yet easier for the public to discern which parties may have been adversely influenced by coercive financial power. But with only two parties in power, it's a cake-walk-corruption-extravaganza for "Them". Two parties only makes "Their" lives a hell of a lot easier and less complex - A two-party system of Elites by Elites for Elites.

A Multi-party system would be more responsive to the people....no one party is likely to gain power alone, and so will have to form coalitions from the federal level right on down to the local. Forming coalitions takes dialogging, debating, compromising; it means working together. Opening the 2018 mids + 2020 general election to more parties would return power/leverage to the people swiftly -- without a chaotic revolution.

If Americans can watch 17 republicans debate again and again, than we can do the same for 6-10 new political parties.

ahhhhhhh, this post was just a pipe dream....a dream...a dream........Randy Q taps his red shoes together 3 times and says, "theres no place like home...theres no place like home....theres no place like home...."

 

Sheryl G (359)
Tuesday May 24, 2016, 5:32 am
Randy we DO have a lot of Parties, we even have the Pirate Party......but......the way our system is set up the two major Parties have rigged the game.

We use to get at least one Independent Candidate in the debates, remember Ross Perot? Since then the two major Parties have even rigged it so that a future Ross Perot can't get on stage. Remember when the Green Party Candidates on the last Presidential election were arrested for simply being OUTSIDE where the debates were being held? They were not even in the building!

Dr. Jill Stein, an actual Presidential Candidate and her VP were arrested and whisked away to a warehouse and handcuffed to some metal chairs! No one knew where they were, they were not allowed a phone call, they were not told where they were or when they'd be released. No that is scary stuff that all Americans no matter who they want to vote for should be denouncing. Yet I write this on threads, and it's take with a ho hum, it's on the internet and it's taken with a ho hum, why, because they were not within the major Parties? What about them simply being citizens, Americans, where are those people who are SCREAMING about all our freedom? Why can't two women, who were not trespassing, were not causing a disturbance, arrested, not read their rights, not told where they were being taken, not allowed a phone call? Their Rights removed and yet......this is okay? Where is the outrage? Where are all those Right Wingers with the Constitution being held up and pushed in people's faces for other things they feel is wrong - yet on something like this, not so much as a word. And Liberals - where are you?

Seems all is fine as long as it is being done by the Republicans or the Democrats.....except during election time then they poke each other in the eye a little bit.......but BOTH Parties remain closed mouth on what did take place with the Green Party Candidates.......in fact Both Parties created it with the backing of the Police State.

Wake up people - you with the red flags and you with the blue flags - they don't and haven't for a long time had YOUR best interest in mind. Both Parties work for the Oligarchy and as George Carlin said, and "you ain't in it" meaning their club. Unless you are in the billionaire club you are not counted, thought of, you are just given an illusion over election time.......makes us think we have some control. By making us think we have some control we are easier to control.

So most certainly, the power needs to be spread around, because power in any one hand or few hands is still a power that can be corrupted, no matter how well intentioned it may of started out. So it has to be the masses, with more than two Parties, to keep the power from gathering in the hands of too few.

Electing Bernie would of been the start to remove some of that combined power that the two Parties have in their corrupted hands. But not enough people yet see that, even some who voted for Bernie will turn and vote for Hillary or even Trump........and then wonder why nothing changes and nothing improves.
 

Evelyn B (63)
Tuesday May 24, 2016, 8:21 am
If your "other" parties had equal access to the election debate, potential candidates like Bernie & Jill Stein would be able to stand in their own right - and be as visible to the potential voters as those donkeys & elephants. Their names, values and intended strategies would be as familiar to the "average" citizen as any candidate for either of the Two.

But despite Bernie's years in government, he (his principles, policy lines, convictions) has only become somewhat more familiar to the ordinary people across the US because he moved into the structure of one of the Two ... And, despite efforts to treat him as marginal & to avoid according him the same media coverage as the Establishment's choice, more and more people have realised that he is a person who reflects their concerns. Bernie in May 2016 is a known figure - had he been as well known in May 2015, I suspect that results in the first States covered in the primaries would have been very different!
=> People would have made sure that they registered early so that their rights to vote in Democrat primaries would be ensured
=> People who thought such an unknown wouldn't stand a chance might well have used their vote differently.

The Democrat primary process has been forced to look at issues, not just "self selling" - thanks to Bernie. Will this be taken on board in formulating a serious, sincere "Democrat Platform" in the final run-up to November ... and thereafter, if the Democrats win?

If Bernie were the candidate, every debate would require Trump to analyse people's needs, and develop positions on the issues that concern the "average" US citizen.
If Hillary were the candidate, I don't think the same pressure to formulate clear policies & strategies would be present. The "sales speak" would be something different ...

What would it take to open up the election process in the US?

In France, it is obligatory to ensure equal media time for ALL parties - especially for the Presidential elections. And this is closely monitored.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 24, 2016, 10:20 am
D wrote: "Randy we DO have a lot of Parties, we even have the Pirate Party......but......the way our system is set up the two major Parties have rigged the game......We use to get at least one Independent Candidate in the debates, remember Ross Perot?"

Yes, I know we do, and I remember Perot...and Jon Anderson from 80'. It's trying to get my feelings across in a small comment box that's the challenge. There are some parties are out there for sure (*I do like my list of potential parties though, especially the Silly Party) but they haven't been given equal access for decades.

Evelyn B. wrote: "In France, it is obligatory to ensure equal media time for ALL parties - especially for the Presidential elections. And this is closely monitored."

Yes, I mentioned in the prior comment the FEC has to be re-worked, there needs to equal access to the media in all markets and every party gets a seat at the debate table (no matter how loonie the party may be). The gov holds the yearly renewable licenses of media, the renewal is partly based on how media serve the public interest. No campaign access for mutli-parties should equal no license renewal. D mentioned the rigging by both parties..e.g; amounts of money needed, number of signatures, unreachable deadlines etc..etc...that has to end by independent commission....and than there's the Media/Campaign Industrial Complexes, too. They want to keeps things as is in oder to save their motherlode of cash coming in...etc...etc...etc...etc...etc...etc.....the two party system is just too damn easy for "Them"......."They" can simply call it all in from a billion dollar beach resort somewhere....sipping very Bloody Marys.

I'd like to see multi-party coalitions being formed, I'd like to see dialogging, than action taken at the capital.....there hasn't been any real action at the capital for a very very long time. The two-parties have been corrupted to a stand still except in cases of national security/Intell matters. All the action has been happening at the Court.

And just look what MAY be awaiting us in "Their" two-party future: Slump or Hilliary, and a stacked Supreme Court making our laws.

======================================


Evelyn B. wrote: "... And, despite efforts to treat him as marginal & to avoid according him the same media coverage as the Establishment's choice, more and more people have realised that he is a person who reflects their concerns."

Yes, Evelyn, I agree. But when something if life is "Fated" synchronism emerges and pieces begin to fall in place. The low amount of media coverage for Bernie just may be a blessing in disguise. It became clear to me when the tape was "leaked" of Slump being his own PR guy and caught later lying about it on the Today Show, that the Clintons were playing hard-ball. There is enough tabloid crud on these two front runners to turn this election into a Domestic-Global Circus and finally drive every American crazy with disgust....there has to be a tremendous amount of discontent to wake up the American people. The front runners may get SO disgusting, so dirty that the quite, old, little, long-distance runner and the SANEST message will win out.

At present, we have two front runners that are Tabloid Animals ready to fight it out. When the media focus all their attention on the two tabloid animals tearing each other apart, Bernie's message will become a quite voice from the wilderness for Americans, a sanctuary for sanity, an inspirational + rational way forward. Because of the lack of media coverage now, it will appear to some Americans that he just appeared out of nowhere with a very clear message.

Evelyn B. wrote: "If Bernie were the candidate, every debate would require Trump to analyse people's needs, and develop positions on the issues that concern the "average" US citizen."

Exactly Evelyn, 'issues that concern the "average" US citizen.' (poor/mid class republicans + democrats)
Slump only has the "Socialist" and Foreign Policy cards to play against Sanders....and though he will hit Bernie hard on those issues, all I can tell say is that I KNOW (if given the chance) Bernie can handle anything Slump throws at him while methodically deconstruct-ing Slump's poisonous message.

We'll see. Let the Tabloid Circus begin!

 

Sheryl G (359)
Tuesday May 24, 2016, 10:50 am
We can all be thankful to Bernie Sanders for what he did. If nothing else he placed the conversation out there he made a tiny crack into the dike. If he had run as an Independent, other than those of us who already knew him from our activism, would not of heard about him. He had not choice but to enter one of the two Parties I think the Republican Party wasn't an option at all, but he is reminding the Democrats what their Party had at one point stood for......had forgotten.......and needs to return to and push forward even more.

In the sixties and seventies, we were not content to just sit on the New Deal Programs, there were Women's Rights issues, there were Civil Rights issues, there were Equality issues, there was still work to be done. Sure the New Deal programs were good, a nice start, but we still had to improve a lot of areas, also get us out of the Vietnam War.

We did on the streets back then 4 Dead In Ohio was more than just a song, students really died. Those who stood up against the machine had their heads beaten over, and because of protest at the Democratic Convention in 68 that didn't open the Party to become more Progressive they made sure that the Oligarchy would stay in Power, keep the War Machine going. Here is a reminder of what took place
 

Sheryl G (359)
Tuesday May 24, 2016, 10:52 am
Here is a reminder of what took place Democratic Convention 1968

A reminder that the Democratic Party was keeping us going in the War of Vietnam. A reminder that when the Anti War Delegates were trying to be heard at the Convention they were REMOVED. A Reminder that after George McGovern, the TRUE Progressive, the Anti War Candidate was backed and supported by the people shouting for Peace, Civil Rights, Human Dignity.......it was the Democrats that started this blasted rigged SUPERDELEGATE crap.

How soon so many forget.........so here we are, voting once more for the lesser of two evils. That Bernie got as far as he did is amazing, that was a real powerful message to the Establishment and the Plutocrats. So while the Republicans are as Darren matched them with his Monster Raving Loony Party......the Democrats as was said in the film link I just gave......have blood on their hands.

Who is worse? I don't know I pretty much have both of them in the same boat. Is why I've been voting as an Independent. I voted for George McGovern, my first time I could vote, although I'd been in the streets with thousands prior to voting, adding my voice against the war. I voted for McGovern, I paid attention to that which was done in 1968. It's been rigged for a long time now.......the Democrats say "oh we care so much for you" yet......there was the War in Vietnam very happy to keep sending us off to. I saw the pain on the faces of the students in my classroom. Instead of looking happy about graduating all they saw was that damn bowl and wonder if their draft number was next. Some already had a brother, Uncle, or friend in the war, some already had been to funerals.

When I see a Candidate worth voting for in either of the two main Parties I'll vote for them, as I would for Bernie Sanders, because of Bernie Sanders NOT the Democratic Party. But I see others, will vote for Hillary as they see the Democratic Party as "better".......but I think they are either forgetting or do not know to start with. We GOT HERE because of these two Parties working TOGETHER.

This certainly isn't over......the youth today reminds me of the days of my youth. They are seeing BS from a two Party duopoly. They have their work cut out for them. I can't change the world, I can't change the USA, I can only do what is in my power. This one tiny place, my vote, I'll not give to Hillary solely based on what some are saying as the lesser of two evils. I KNOW too much history, I know too much current information, I know too much about Hillary. The best I can do is RESIST.

Too many forget that resistance is also power........I'll continue to practice peaceful resistance by NOT being in support to either of the Republican or Democrat Party. Individuals yes, Party no.

 

Evelyn B (63)
Tuesday May 24, 2016, 11:09 am
Randy - your "best option" (shared by Dandelion & many others) needs Bernie coming out as the candidate. I wonder if the "synchronism" could include those lies (mis-speaking) and questionable issues coming back to roost BEFORE the Convention ... because then the rest of your scenario could pan out!

(From your mouth to God's ears ... to use an old Hispanic/Arabic/Hebrew saying ... ? from Andalusia?)
 

Sheryl G (359)
Tuesday May 24, 2016, 11:10 am
Oh, just saw your most recent comment while I was typing Randy. I want to pull this out of what you said.

" There is enough tabloid crud on these two front runners to turn this election into a Domestic-Global Circus and finally drive every American crazy with disgust...."

Well isn't that the truth. And they both have a lot of dirt on each other just from their personal association and we know both of them are going to have their people digging deep on this one.

However, too many people like a Jerry Springer show.........brings in the lowest common denominator of far too many people. For me it's not only sad but an embarrassment, that this is what the world is viewing and will view because it is only going to get down and dirty. Hillary is trying to do the ignore what he states and focus on issues. She might have a strategy there, but I'm wondering how long she'll be able to maintain it, I know she can get down with the best of them. She has a steel trap for a heart.

Randy "Slump only has the "Socialist" and Foreign Policy cards to play against Sanders....and though he will hit Bernie hard on those issues, all I can tell say is that I KNOW (if given the chance) Bernie can handle anything Slump throws at him while methodically deconstruct-ing Slump's poisonous message."

I totally agree with you there and is why in poll after poll it rates him higher at his chance of winning over Trump than Hillary. With Trump and Hillary it will be who wins the mud slinging wrestle match. We The People are not included......we get to watch.....shout......cry.....cheer.....throw shoes at our TV's but we have already lost without Bernie in the general election.

I appreciate that he continues to fight, that he won some extra people on the forming of the Platform. He did not go quietly and so he has it Hillary 6 Bernie 5 and the DNC (Wasserman Schultz) at 4. Better than it was initially given out. So Bernie is doing what he can, he is no fool. He might have white on the top of his head but the man has been around the block a few times.

 

Evelyn B (63)
Tuesday May 24, 2016, 11:38 am
When I was at University, I saw some graffiti that really appealed to my sense of humour ...
"Isn't it great to have Reagan for President! A REAL actor after all of those clowns!"

I realised last year that at that time we had NO IDEA what constitutes "clowns" in politics ...

And if US citizens felt the 2000 elections showed US politics in a bad light ... that was mild compared to 2015-2016 ... Bernie has been, & is, the ray of light that provides some counter-balance to the terrible image of "democracy" coming out of the US at present ...
 

Sheryl G (359)
Tuesday May 24, 2016, 12:21 pm
True....that is another place Bernie has done us some justice Evelyn. Just by being in the primaries to watch how bold and in the face this rigged system is. If people didn't see it before....perhaps now?
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 24, 2016, 1:50 pm
D. wrote: "However, too many people like a Jerry Springer show.....brings in the lowest common denominator of far too many people."

Yes, I agree, however 'many people' will not be deciding who wins in Nov: a small section of independents and undecided voters will - and after the vile, disgusting, show about to unfold, it just might push them over the political sanity cliff....to pull the lever for Sanders (if/when Sanders becomes the nominee)....

D wrote:"I appreciate that he continues to fight, that he won some extra people on the forming of the Platform.....So Bernie is doing what he can.....that is another place Bernie has done us some justice"

Bernie has done a yeoman's job for sure, but fate may ask more of him....this election is too weird to be called, yet.

===========================

Everlyn wrote: "I wonder if the "synchronism" could include those lies (mis-speaking) and questionable issues coming back to roost BEFORE the Convention ... because then the rest of your scenario could pan out!"

Yes, Evelyn, you nailed it. 'Mis-speaking' is Hilliary's middle name. And Slump is doing everything he can to get Hilliary into a scrap because he's under his own time constraints for the upcoming "unity" convention. I think more bombs will be leaked soon, probably a combination of deeply personal crud + her poor judgment/decision skills. Depending on how personal and outlandish they are, Hilliary might not be able to remain silent or take the high road because she might look weak or worse...unable to defend herself and if she can't defend herself or her husband, she'll be perceived as not being able to defend the country.

Politics is just another word for: (Psychological) Blood Sport for Psychopaths.

The rest of us watch in horror as this psychopathic display plays out in real/fake-time.

That's why I hope the 'fated' 'synchronism' falls into place......

 

Sheryl G (359)
Tuesday May 24, 2016, 3:32 pm
I haven't wrote Bernie off yet....as they say, it ain't over until it's over. The Jerry Springer show is only "if' he is not the nominee. I'm still in hopes enough voters come to their senses and also the Superdelegates as well. I'd sure hate to have my name forever linked with the psychopaths.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 24, 2016, 6:25 pm
D wrote: "I haven't wrote Bernie off yet...."

I know you haven't....none of us have. I also know he is giving his best against some heavy hitters out there.

"...as they say, it ain't over until it's over. The Jerry Springer show is only "if' he is not the nominee........I'm still in hopes enough voters come to their senses and also the Superdelegates as well. I'd sure hate to have my name forever linked with the psychopaths"

Don't forget there's a certain F.B.I. report due out the end of June. If it goes against Hilliary + a landslide/decisive victory in California, the superdelegates will finally understand what the word "Fate" means and make the correct choice.


 

Sheryl G (359)
Wednesday May 25, 2016, 5:48 am
Be sure to post something on this as it happens Darren.....we depend upon you. ;-)
 

Robert B (60)
Wednesday May 25, 2016, 10:02 am
Capitalism without Mercy is tantamount to Evil. - From "ELI STONE"
Capitalism in the U.S. is corrupt. A rigged game run by the 1%
 

Sheryl G (359)
Wednesday May 25, 2016, 12:24 pm
Got that one Robert, without mercy.
 

Roger G (148)
Wednesday May 25, 2016, 3:04 pm
noted, thanks
 

Jonathan Harper (0)
Thursday May 26, 2016, 12:39 am
Noted!
 
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