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You're Gay So Go Away, Pope Tells French Ambassador


Society & Culture  (tags: France, Pope Francis, Catholic church, Gay Marriage, Gay Ambassador, openly Gay, LGBT Rights )

Barbara
- 1479 days ago - sgn.org
Pope Francis met with France's openly Gay Ambassador to the Vatican, but only to tell him that his appointment to represent France at the Vatican was unacceptable.



   

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Comments

Barbara T (431)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 2:49 am
Pope Francis met with France's openly Gay Ambassador to the Vatican, but only to tell him that his appointment was unacceptable.

According to Le Canard Enchaine newspaper, French diplomat Laurent Stefanini met the Pope in a 15-minute private audience, and was told by the pontiff that his appointment to represent France at the Vatican was unacceptable.

His sexual orientation was reportedly only part of the reason the Vatican rejected him. France's 2013 legalization of same-sex marriage was also a reason he was unacceptable to the Vatican.

Stefanini was appointed to represent France at the Vatican in January, but until his meeting with the Pope, he had no communication at all with Catholic diplomatic officials.

Stefanini is a practicing Catholic and worked as France's deputy ambassador to the Vatican from 2001 to 2005. He is currently chief of protocol in President François Hollande's government.

Stefanini's appointment was supported by French Cardinal Andre Vingt-Trois, who wrote to Pope Francis elaborating on the diplomat's merits, according to Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera.

The French Government confirmed the meeting between Stefanini and the Pope had taken place at a regular press briefing on April 22, but insisted that Stefanini remains France's Ambassador to the Holy See.

'There was a meeting between the Pope and Mr. Stefanini,' French Government spokesperson Stephane Le Foll told Reuters news agency.

'[But] nothing has changed. France has proposed a candidate and for the time being we are waiting for the Vatican's reply after the usual discussions and review of his candidacy.'
 

Rose B (141)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 3:19 am
So wrong
 

Naoko i (257)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 3:24 am
To me Pope's attitude is unacceptable.
 

Animae C (508)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 4:15 am
Bloody hypocrite!

 

Jonathan H (0)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 4:46 am
hmmmmmm
 

Teresa W (782)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 5:08 am
You may all be right, but why did France appoint a gay man Ambassador to the Vatican? I wonder if they´d appoint a gay man Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, for example.
 

Animae C (508)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 5:11 am
Why not Teresa?
 

. (0)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 5:31 am
The line had to be drawn with the out-of-control Frankenstein's monster known as 'political correctness' sooner or later otherwise where will it end?!!!
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 6:12 am
You know i started out actually feeling a lil fuzzy good with this Pope...and i was duped into believing he was actually a superior soul then all the useless turds before him...lately his true colors are flourishing+they ain't nice. thx BM
 

. (0)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 6:23 am
He's the Pope - hello, anyone at home? - did you REALLY expect the leader of the CATHOLIC church to be PRO HOMO?
Not very likely is it?!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Roman_Catholicism
 

Anna Neusüss (127)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 6:25 am
I couldn't agree more, Natasha! Really, first time I felt there is a Pope, who is different, but this is very disappointing.

Thank you for sharing.
 

Naoko i (257)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 6:41 am
It is Vatican, after all. I always wonder why we need to send ambassador there.
 

Ben O (131)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 8:02 am
I'm waiting for the day when the pope takes a step 150 years forward...
(That'll never happen of course, but they say miracles can happen) ~ :
 

Nita L (127)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 9:34 am
I.m disappointed. I thought that this Pope was more progressive.
Noted
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 2:30 pm
Sadly I too am very disappointed.
Thank you
 

Nimue Michelle Pendragon Gaze (339)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 6:59 pm
How rude. This pope's no different to any of the others, just a silly bloke in a dress.
 

Athena F (131)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 7:19 pm
:(
 

Bruce C D (89)
Wednesday May 6, 2015, 10:22 pm
I think in many ways this Pope is more progressive and an improvement over his predecessors. It's a real shame he couldn't show the courage on this issue that he has on so many others that were more 'popular' with his flock, though.

This wasn't about changing church doctrine, really. The ambassadorships to the Vatican are mostly ceremonial, anyway. So it isn't as if there would be all that much interaction with the French ambassador. Additionally, the guy *is* an ambassador, so it's safe to assume he would behave in a diplomatic fashion not to offend church sensibilities. This is like the don't ask, don't tell policy. If he wasn't open about his sexual orientation, then nobody would have been the wiser and he would have doubtless been accepted. He shouldn't be punished for being honest about himself. Was he declined for the position because he told the Pope he was unrepentant about his homosexuality?

This is just one of a few important issues where the Catholic Church is behind the times. Abortion and women clergy are also notable exceptions. Then again, Catholic Doctrine has always evolved at a snail's pace. But, to be fair, it's not the only Christian denomination or religious sect to share that trait.
 

Roberto M (88)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 2:38 am
I thought Pope Francis was more open-minded.
 

Jim Ven (0)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 4:46 am
thanks for the article.
 

Jessica Cooper (0)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 7:03 am
I thought the new pope was pretty open to homosexuality. And perhaps he is - the article clearly states that he was rejected for the same-sex marriage issue. Too bad everyone is jumping to conclusions so quickly.
 

Barbara T (431)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 9:08 am
The Vatican is "the world's smallest country", it is all located WITHIN the City of Rome. It's about 100 acres and with a population of about 1000.
It's RIDICULOUS that it is even treated as a country. No other RELIGION is. Imagine "Methodists" being a "country"!
Of course, this reflects the FORMER power and land-holdings of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. The present situation reflects agreements made starting with Napoleon, Italy when it became a country, Mussolini, etc. The Pope USED to control large [feudal] territories, given up to Italy in return for the Vatican being recognized as a State also - in various agreements and treaties.

Bruce is right about the ambassadorships being mostly ceremonial. Sometimes they are called by other names than "ambassadors". The U.S. didn't use to have a representative at the Vatican, but now they do. And the Vatican has one in the U.S. This is a stupid expenditure of taxpayers' money [among other things] and shouldn't be so. [Separation of Church and State, anyone?]
The Vatican has "Observer Status" at the United Nations. Again, no other Religion does! Again, this reflects "realities" that are PAST AND GONE. It gives the Pope "artificial" status as a "world leader". Controlling a "land"and "population" much smaller than world-class cities.....
 

Barbara T (431)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 9:41 am
Pope Francis is in the IMPOSSIBLE position of trying to satisfy the most CONSERVATIVE Catholics, like the Opus Dei group [same one as in The Da Vinci Code, it really does exist];
and the modern, progressive Catholics who aren't obsessed with Sex, Sin, and Hellfire, blithely go their own way being Gay, being Divorced, using Birth Control freely, getting Abortions without guilt [at about the same rate as non-Catholics in the U.S. - about one in three women] - etc. etc. etc.
This is why the last Pope was blitzed out of office - he was NO GOOD at P.R.
The present Pope knows his stuff. But, as I stated, his job is in reality an IMPOSSIBLE one.

The really Conservative Catholics are LEAVING the main Church to form their OWN congregations, with mass in Latin, no altargirls, etc.
The Progressive Catholics are leaving also, because of the Gay thing and Gay Marriage, largely. Sometimes also starting their own groups. And their KIDS aren't becoming Catholic. [And recruiting of Priests and Nuns is WAY DOWN.]
And - importantly - Big Donors are offended by, for example, Gay Teachers being fired...
And other Big Donors, some of them, are also WAY OVER ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE....
.
So, it is no surprise that Pope Francis frequently publicly takes one position, then to another audience CONTRADICTS HIMSELF.....
Trying to keep up both ends, seems like Hypocrisy to BOTH sides, will merely serve to keep the Catholic Church going, lurching from side to side, for a few more years...

[Not the Pope's "personal qualities" are really at issue - but the nature of the job itself, that he's supposed to be doing... to keep this Anachronism alive somehow in the Modern World of Science, Skepticism and the Internet.....]
 

Barbara T (431)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 9:59 am
Re-posted this article in 2 Care2 groups:

Atheist/Agnostic Alliance
(244 members) last post was 2 min ago, closed to public viewing, requires application

Gay So Go Away
What's the future of religion?
OFF TOPIC...

GLBT Rights Global
(1,409 members) last post was 4 min ago, visible to public, open membership

Gay So Go Away
Call for Anti-Gay Witch Hunt IN THE GOP by Right-wing Xians
China: you claim equality and you end up in jail

IF YOU ARE NOT A TROLL, you may be interested in one or both of these groups.
Both groups welcome sincere seekers..... and are intended to be SAFE SPACES for discussion.
WE EAT TROLLS. You have now been warned.................
 

Barbara T (431)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 10:36 am
Earl: To be PRO HOMO is exactly the same as being PRO HUMAN - PRO Human Rights in other words.

LGBTQI Rights, are exactly the SAME as ALL HUMAN RIGHTS - and that includes the Right to get legally married, with all its legal Rights and Responsibilities - the Right to Housing, the Right to Living unmolested and unharassed, and the Right to hold any sort of job anyone else does - including a silly ceremonial decorative Ambassadorship, or any other kind of job.
[That's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans* -gender or -sexual, Queer or Questioning or Questing, and Intersex.
I wouldn't expect you to necessarily know these things.]

To repeat: LGBTQI Rights are NOT "special rights".
LGBTQI Rights are HUMAN RIGHTS. Nothing more, and nothing less. Period.
 

Birgit W (160)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 3:48 pm
Shame! I guess he forgets how many priests are gay.
 

David B (34)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 3:48 pm
as usual , religion stirring up shit . if we could just get it out of our lives , and so much grief and sorrow ,destruction and war would be gone also . and I really think there is a fine line tween a courtly acceptance and a rude refuse . and unfortunately he chose the rude refusal .
 

. (0)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 4:49 pm
An interesting thesis BMutiny, and thanks to the First Amendment you are perfectly entitled state it as an when you like - as are we all:

First Amendment.

An amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, prohibiting Congress from interfering with freedom of religion, speech, assembly, or petition - no matter how bizarre. . .
 

S J (124)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 5:26 pm
withdraw French ambassador from that silly 'country', for it seriously violated human rights.
yes, Ben, pig may fly but may not pope.--sorry Ben

thank you BMutiny
 

Mary D (47)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 5:43 pm
Great comments.
 

marie C (163)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 6:45 pm
Things are changing but very slowly
 

Freya H (345)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 7:03 pm
I agree, it was not at all nice. However, one step at a time, folks, one step at a time. Maybe the next Pope will be more accepting of homosexuality.
 

Naoko i (257)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 7:54 pm
BMutiny, so well said and so very true. Human rights are fundamental rights every human being has, regardless of his/her sexual orientation.
If you think being LGTB makes someone ineligible to acts that any "non-LGBT" person are eligible, you're saying LGBT people are less human.
 

Bruce C D (89)
Thursday May 7, 2015, 8:01 pm
@Jessica Cooper--

No, the article states he was rejected for his homosexuality and for France's legalization of same-sex marriage. He is not personally responsible for laws France makes as a nation. Now, does this mean that the Pope will summarily reject any French candidate? If the Vatican does accept one, then it still boils down to his rejection being due to his homosexuality -- something for which he is also blameless.
 

. (5)
Friday May 8, 2015, 6:32 am
arigato
 

Barbara T (431)
Friday May 8, 2015, 4:50 pm
Bruce: 'the article states he was rejected for his homosexuality and for France's legalization of same-sex marriage. He is not personally responsible for laws France makes as a nation. Now, does this mean that the Pope will summarily reject any French candidate?' Brilliant LOGIC. Thanx, Bruce.
 

Barbara T (431)
Friday May 8, 2015, 5:13 pm
Earl: The First Amendment says you, or anyone, have/has the Perfect Right to spout Hatred, Discrimination, Ignorance, Bias, Non-Science, Anti-Human opinions and dogmas, whether in the name of Religion or not.

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution has NOTHING to say about the laws of OTHER COUNTRIES, such as the Vatican is. The Vatican, or for that matter North Korea or Uzbekistan, can do anything they like, as Sovereign Countries, about Ambassadorships and Diplomatic Relations and all that. [The U.S. Constitution only sets rules about Ambassadors, etc., from the U.S. side.]
Religious people can be anti-LGBT in speech, but they canNOT deny Public Access to a Public made up of both Gay and Non-Gay people. In other words, they can spew Hate {but not to the extent of inciting Hate Crimes}, but they can't discriminate in Public, only in their private lives. {In the U.S. and in many other countries.}
The KKK and the American Nazi Party all have those exact same rights of Free Speech. Check it out if you don't believe me! They are not going to jail for what they are SAYING! which can be quite outrageous.....

We ALL have the right to say critical things about the Pope, to say critical or untrue things about Gay people, and to say critical things about people who say critical or untrue things about Gay people.
The Pope as ABSOLUTE UNQUESTIONED FEUDAL RULER OF THE COUNTRY OF THE VATICAN, has the Absolute Right to not accept Left-handed people as Ambassadors, for example. Or Women, for that matter! {I'd bet that IS coming up in the future!!!!!}
And we all have the Absolute Right to call the Pope A SILLY ASS for making the choices he does!
And, frankly, IT DOES ONE'S HEART GOOD, to call the Pope A Silly Ass - after the Centuries of Repression when that action would have meant the Rack, the Screw, and the Stake!!!
 

. (0)
Friday May 8, 2015, 5:50 pm
Exactly - except that you said in 300 words what I said in 30! LOL!
 

Charity Mission (73)
Sunday May 10, 2015, 1:47 pm
Noted. Thanks for sharing, BMutiny
 

Lynne Buckley (0)
Sunday May 10, 2015, 3:41 pm
Very narrow minded.
 
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