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Do Not Waste Your Precious Time By Signing Petitions Without Proper Targets

Society & Culture  (tags: proper targets, petitions )

- 3964 days ago -
A target says where a petition will be sent to, once it has enough signs.That could be an organisation,an embassy,a government,a mayor etc It is defenitely useless signing petitions without proper tar Do not sign them!!!!And do not send them to others


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Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 2:47 pm
Thank you Trudi/noted.

Barb Knight (1687)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 3:06 pm
AMEN, Trudi!! Thank you, I couldn't have said it better!! Noted!!

Cher C (1426)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 3:06 pm
Thnx for posting Trudi!!!


Lydia S (71)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 3:11 pm
Thanks, Trudi -- Duly noted; I hope I haven't inadvertantly done this. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Trudi Reijnders (242)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 3:17 pm
Lydia,I am afraid a lot of us have signed these kind of petitions more than once.It does not matter, as long as we are learning from our mistakes.

DAPHNE D (286)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 3:21 pm
im sick & tired getting no valid petitions with wrong targets..thx Trudi

Gorilly Girl (339)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 3:22 pm
Okay I am the dummy her someone tell me how to tell so I wont be wasting my time with the one that aint goin nowhares....

Jim Phillips (3247)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 3:27 pm
Some of the petitions I have seen lately are useless. They are poorly thought out, poorly written and addressed to no specific organization. There is no plan of presenting the petition once it has or may have reached its objective signature goals. There is no target. There is no objective.

I would like to see, in the subject, the title of the petition so I know and can see what it is. It simply says "Action Alert from Joe Blow". I have to open each one, each letter to find out what the petition is. Sometimes, it is a petition I have already signed, thus I have wasted my time. The person who has sent me the petition has also wasted her/his time as well.

The idea of a petition is worthwhile endeavour but only if the petition is properly done and with an objective, a target, a presentation.

TY, Trudi.


Trudi Reijnders (242)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 3:40 pm
Amen Jim.
Stephanie,a target is where the petition will be sent to.You can read it in the"article".

. (0)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 3:41 pm
As you and I said today Trudi me too, I'm sick to death of these Action Alerts, I want to throw my hands up and say the heck with it. No faces on them and it takes forever because you have to go through them and look for them. Think I'm going to have to change it. For I send them and I get them back with in a day or so. Once I send them I should never see it again. The ball is getting dropped. GRRRR!! almost makes s--t my pants. oooppppsss!!! Thanks Trudi noted

Pat B (356)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 3:42 pm
noted, and thankx trudi.

ROBIN M (312)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 3:44 pm

Dee G (199)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 3:44 pm
Thanks. I thought I had read somewhere a while ago that a petition wasn't valid unless it was physically signed, but I sign anyway. I will re-think this. Thank You

Elle J (276)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 4:03 pm
Noted! Thanks Trudi. I read the petitions before I sign them and there have been some that I was unsure of and I didn't sign them. I generally sign petitions with a comment as most of you know. I will say this, if a petition is of a political nature, NUMBERS DO COUNT! Most people involved in government take a good long look at who signed and the demographics from where they are. I can tell you that with some certainty.

Brenda H (29)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 4:22 pm

. (0)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 4:30 pm
Noted with thanks, Trudi.

Trudi Reijnders (242)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 4:35 pm
Anyone giving more info about these invalid petitions,please step forward!
As far as I can see it,since Care2 invented the sending of action alerts we are getting bombed with petitions that will never be delivered.So let's please spread the word to those who need to know.Thank you Elle,and Brenda:those words could be mine.I fully agree.

Joycey B (750)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 4:39 pm
Thanks for coming up with this Trudi.

. (0)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 5:01 pm
contact care 2 and ask them to bring back the old petitions for I have heard these are just a trial run any way. Geesss just get rid of them!!! they are a pain in the oh yea!!! The more people that contact them they will pay attention.

Linda Teachenor (36)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 5:07 pm
Trudi, excellent idea to do this. You really woke me up to pay more attention on the petitions with your message yesterday. Thanx.

Tim Redfern (581)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 5:14 pm
I've been automatically deleting these
damnable action alerts since shortly after
they started going around.
Do people NOT see that they can sign the
petition WITHOUT sending it on to others?
Hey, Care2?
The action alerts aren't working, people are
getting pissed-off, and no one likes them!
Get rid of 'em, please!
Kudos to you, Trudi, for starting
this news-to-note! A brilliant idea!

Patti R (211)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 5:17 pm
Thank you Trudi!

Mara G (411)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 5:26 pm
Thanks Trudi, there needs to be a model set up for new petition writers and that would be simple to do. As Jim P says, there could be a simple format to follow, but lets not forget that petitions are written for many reasons. The most important is to bring public attention to a serious problem, regardless if it goes to a target or if the target even reads it, which many times they don't. Petitions are still one of the best public information campaigns we have, and many large organizations would attest to that, and which is why they continue spending needed moneys to send them out. The public tends to pay more attention to petitions than letters of concern, so all is not lost and I would not discontinue sending them for that important reason. It bring knowledge about a problem, and empowerment. We should put our efforts into teaching people how to write a good petition, and many in this thread have the skills to do that. Why can't we write to the petition writer and ask them to put a target on their petition or help them instead discounting a noble cause? Most people are not professional writers and many/most have good intentions!! Lets help instead of insulting those who are trying to help...our friends! Noted

Erika S (787)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 5:38 pm
Thank, Ron. I send them because of their cause. It's because if it can change one person's mind -- it's made a difference. I read and note everyone's articles every day -- never complain about it. Those take 80% of my time on this network. I'm only on this network because of the petitions. Now I've lost my luster to send anyone anything. If someone doesn't like my action alerts -- just drop me as a friend. I won't take it personally. It's too hard to remember who I can send-to or not.

Mara G (411)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 5:38 pm
On another not...I agree that this new "Action Alert" system is a REALLY BAD IDEA and it has caused me to ignore a lot of petitions because of like Jim P says, it's "1" petition. It is far too time consuming, the type of "Action Alert" needs to be in the subject line, and it's brought Care2 activity to a screeching halt.'s a pain in the A**!!! Many have complained also...nothing!! Lets go back to the old system and quit using the new one!! Simple?

Trudi Reijnders (242)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 5:41 pm
Thank you for your comment,Ron.I appreciate information to be added in the comments.Fact remains that Care2 should haver never started with this easy way of sending on actionalerts to friends.
Result of this is that people delete without reading,or sign without properly checking,or spend hours checking their mailbox and at the end ,like the title says,wasting a lot of precious time.

Cory Ferguson (110)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 5:44 pm

Thank you so much for this! When I now read a petition, without a specific target, I reply to the author and try to give them some tips on how to form up the petition a little better. This has been pretty effective and many of the authors have written me back and have made changes to their petitions. I think that many people mean well, but they don't really know what to do. People get passionate about something, but then they don't know where to go from that point. I don't mind signing petitions, but I won't sign them if I think that they are not going to be put to good use.

Mara G (411)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 5:51 pm
Hi Erika, your first sentence said it all...changing peoples minds, or even making them aware that a problem exists is SO important!! The hard work that the forwarders do [information bringers] might be better spent by copy/paste several "Action Alerts" into one message because it saves everybody time, and writing what the petitions are about in the subject line. I showed 3 members how to do this a couple weeks ago and all of them thanked me. Its saves them time because forwarding is time consuming, and it save the receiver time from opening countless messages. Please don't get disappointed and members like you are the life blood of Care2. We just need to figure out the best and fastest system. If people don't like what you send, they have a delete second to delete. No one knows who wants what. It's up to the receiver.

Trudi Reijnders (242)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 5:55 pm
Erika,it's the petitions that are not being properly created that are a waste of time checking,not the ones that are worth being signed.I just think we have to make people aware of that.
And Cory,your comment shows that if we talk about this,people will be more careful when signing.

Mara G (411)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 6:14 pm
Yes, I agree Trudi. It seems that the new system is meant to needlessly wast as much time as possible. What were they thinking? When I see an ill written petition, I try to bring it to the attention of the writer. When I first came to this thread, I contacted Molly who has the Orangutan petition and asked her who the target way, what the target date of the was, and told her that many members may not sign her petition without that added. We'll see what her response is. The other issue is this "Action Alert" problem. I wish they would fix it, or remove it. It stinks of bad Elderberries!! Thanks my friend!! This needs to be discussed, as I will soon be bald from pulling all my hair out!!

Bill McGlone (103)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 6:37 pm
Noted, my friend.

Brenda H (29)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 7:03 pm

Brenda H (29)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 7:12 pm

Mara G (411)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 8:53 pm
Hi Brenda, if you don't get a response then obviously the writer isn't serious about their petition. Simply don't sign it! I've always answered people when they write, but then I've been writing petitions for many years. I've started 2 petition groups here on Care2 and 3 petition websites and I usually get a response from the writers, but I use much tact. I would suspect that most petition writers have a target in mind, or why would they write one..makes no sense. I've found that they usually just forget to post it. Second, they don't "have" to have a target, they may have multiple targets in mind, third, as I explained above, no petition is "useless" as its the best way to bring awareness of a needed cause. Thats not useless, but extremely important!! Your second comment: When you are signing/forwarding petitions, you "are" spending time helping animals. What do you think Care2 is all about? IT'S A PETITION SITE!! I know of no other way of helping animals through the you? If you don't like petitions...then don't sign or forward them.

Penelope P (222)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 9:01 pm
One has two choices with petitions sent one
a) wipe them
b) sign them anyway-which is quicker than checking them out thanks to care2's excellent pre filling system
I usually check them out before sending them on for the ultimate time waste-duplication of stuff already sent you so you navigate through and find your signature is useless anyway.
Usually what I do when I send them on is put them together in a copy paste with the names of senders so anyone navigating my message can do so as quickly as possible and hass some reference to whether they have already recieved that one from a different source.
I shall in future check targets too before sending i guess- but do agree about how plaguey action alerts are. I get anything up to ten or more some days and they do take time- However there seems to me a sort of obligation to support friends if one can and to presume they care about what they sign

Estella Ameigh (22)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 9:02 pm
Thank You.

Sandra M Z (114)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 10:13 pm
Too many action alerts for a person to read them all! I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm and want to support so many causes. I have to just delete a lot of them and "pick" a few to open. I agree the petitions have impact no matter what, because each time one new person reads someone's comments and learns one more REAL fact, it empowers all of us. But it's hours of volunteer time on here, and I just keep reading and reading...............what a resource, but one can only do so much and still "live"! Thank you Trudi and all comments help to unite our efforts in the end, . Thanks!

Ben O (135)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 11:14 pm
Right! Many petitions are useless. The other day I saw a Care2 petition with deadline FIVE YEARS ago!!! How about that?

Brenda H (29)
Tuesday May 13, 2008, 11:47 pm

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 12:31 am

I signed so many times, thinking I was doing good thing! Lately I take time and consider the petition!

But are 3 things that I would love to see.
1. Feedback, to see what happened with petition, are there any results
2. Documented reactions of institutions who were addressed with these petitions.

and finally

3. To make some order here, for I get invitations for the same petitions repeatedly!

Thank you Trudi, great and useful topic!

Teresa Soares (82)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 1:08 am
I agree with Cebelica - I sign petitions thinking too I was doing it right. And I passed them on, thinking the same thing. In future I´m going pay more attention. Thank you, Trudi.

Anne T (286)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 1:09 am
Thanks for raising thispoint Trudi. I totaly agree with everyones comments here. So much time is being spent on checking these action alerts that other important actions are being buried within our in boxes. I feel I may have to start simply deleting many as my online time is restricted and I don't want to waste it on matters that can have little or no results. .I have also seen many with a useless target. Care2 needs to do somthing about this!!

Jessie Cross (295)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 1:16 am
Thank you, Trudi!! I have tried some times to tell people who have forwarded petitions to me that I cannot sign because they have no targets, no real intention to send to anyone etc. Some were surprised and asked for explanations, which shows that a lot of people with good intentions just sign anything without reading it first and then flood all their friends with the same. I certainly do not like the new feature to send on petitions since it does not say what the petition is about and I am also thinking of just eliminating all these so-called 'action alerts' - I just do not have the time to go through all of them. If I can see a heading I know whether I have already dealt with the issue or not. I am sorry if I am just repeating what everyone else may have said but I just wanted to leave my thoughts and as per usual I do not have the time to read the whole thread. Have a good day all.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 1:23 am

Pam F (221)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 2:15 am

Trudi Reijnders (242)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 2:24 am
I am glad we all agree about this issue.
Now it's up to all of us,to do something with it.
Inform others about what to check when signing,and yes that will take time as well,but if we stay silent,things will not change,
Contacting Care2 about it might be a good idea as well,asking to change this way of sending on of alerts.
It's not a sport signing as many petitions as we can,but it's a valuable way of trying to make a change in things we believe in.

Hans L (958)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 2:52 am
Amen Trudi! You are wonderful!

I would even forget the action alerts in this form! Thousands and thousands of action alerts should not need to be deleted if we would use a more intelligent system! Why cannot the system check that we have allready signed oops i forget that this is a for profit site and they want to sell
clicks. and views....
It would be better to use all 8.000.000 members and not just the 3000 activists...that would boost the Pageimpressions!
What difference could we make if not 3000 but 800.000 people would be making a difference like you are Trudy!
You are wonderful keep up the good work! Fantastico! Wunderbar! Marvelous!

Cynthia S (22)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 5:15 am
Thank you!!! I coudn't agree more. I have received reformatted petitions over and over, and had had enough of it. SOmetimes I believe people take serious causes for a joke. What I say is don't create a petition unless you are whole heartedly commited to that cause.

Thanks again for the news piece, joyfully noted.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 6:08 am
Thank you Trudy!
Do not waste time period!

Mary Zoglio (169)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 6:15 am

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 6:35 am
GRRRR just lost my post.

Short version - Thank you Trudi - I'll come back later - got an idea.

Michele DiGiorgi (320)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 6:40 am
Excellent topic Trudi, my hats off to you! As many here feel the same way about the petitions that are not going anywheres, why sign?...But, being here the amount of time I have been made me realize, that I have the choice to do the research on that petition, and if it is viable, then I sign them. That's that..

But with this new action alert...My mailbox is always full and I can't get to them all. I love all of my friends but it is getting out of hand. I like to sign what I feel is neccessary. I admit to sending out a few of these myself, because I fell into the trap of sending them to 5 people...well, I don't do that anymore.

I feel if people want to sign petitions, they will do it on their own, unless it's a super important issue and is being passed around.
This is my opinion only..
Thanks to Lyn 4 the forward & Trudi for the post, good job my friend. Noted!
Blessings to all in the Universe...

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 8:14 am
Dear Trudy! Great that you bring this topic!
These are the facts of the Care2 petitions!

Many petitions are useless just look at this figures the
action allert has probably killed the petitions complete!
Because many people give up! Hundreds of the same allerts
every day! And less people signing!
Since everybody is reacting in the same way!

28,459,868 signatures!
180,707 petitions created!

So what how many signatures are that pro petition 1000?
No way !

Free spirit you are right the action allert is deadly for petitions
i did not use it and will never use it it is the most stupid thing
to do if you want to improve petitions! Reduce the numbers forget
that there are 8.000.000 members forget that there are even 8000 who sign
here in care2! 3000 thats all that you will find out maybe 3500!

Care2 should improve and start listening or be prepared to loose many many
true activists who simply want to stop wasting time on useless petitions!

Delfin Brown (7)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 8:30 am
Is there any concrete research/evidence on the effectiveness of on-line petitions? Is any more attention paid to petitions passed hand-to-hand? Are we fooling ourselves in order to feel that we are doing something useful?

Phyllis P (232)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 8:30 am
I agree...noted!!

Robert Redmon (128)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 9:03 am
Previously noted but fully agree, and that action alerts are OK in moderation, but I won't send any action alerts unless it's an excellent petition. The last one I sent was concerning one on Burma.

Linda D (41)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 9:34 am
I get tired of petitions. It starts with a good thought, but will the petition ever be delivered in paper form, or simply deleted? My pet peeve are sites that demand all your personal information on unencrypted pages that can be read by anyone while transmitting, or used to be sold to fund raisers. Still, without out petitions with a clear target and everything, how do make your opinion known?

. (0)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 10:40 am
Thank you Trudi!!!

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 11:19 am
Thanks for this which brings good discussion on very good points Trudi.
Agree with you Robert, well said :-)

I do verfiy some petitions and visit Petitionsite and Care2 petition group where petitions are shared and discussed. :-)

I get my Care2 updates news at my regular email before I log on since I am on dial up I have to learn to work fast and last place visited, is bogged down message box, worse before I think when messages were not marked, I guess. Alpha them and click them to process them accordingly, if you want to delete,highlight, save.... if that works, right? anyway...

If and when I ever get to that point, I look for personal notes. I do not participate with a lot of soliciation. I have made some good friends that I trust and we network however, if someone is only linked to mass mail, I am not feeling it.

I feel I do ok to support causes for what I have to work with, I am thankful to be here. My old dial up and pc's capacity allows me to go after my choices and causes and I am ok with that and hope everyone else is, too. Peace and Love and Happiness :-)
green stars Trudi,
thanks again

Lory g (109)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 11:40 am
couldn't agree more..!! s
some petitions have been downright hoaxes..
Cebelica you're right: 1.get feedback, 2.was it delivered and 3.a documented history of what was signed.
Thanks Trudi for a great topic.

Simone Duffin (1462)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 11:42 am
Thank you Trudi, not only are petitions not delivered, there is even one at the moment that promotes declawing cats.

DAPHNE D (286)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 12:04 pm
just got 1 :stop leather-stop fur
target :public

LOL LOL...ok ..whatever you say..

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 12:27 pm
Hi Tim! Of all the comments you are the absolute number one! Bravissimo!
You could not have stated it more clear i hope that the Randy will be reading this! I know that Hans had some very nasty experiences with people who had been disapointed because he did not react on action alerts! And he has made it clear that he will react to all personal messages bust must delete all action alerts...this is insane CARE2! Or in Tims wonderful words!
Here is the best comment once again...
I've been automatically deleting these
damnable action alerts since shortly after
they started going around.
Do people NOT see that they can sign the
petition WITHOUT sending it on to others?
Hey, Care2?
The action alerts aren't working, people are
getting pissed-off, and no one likes them!
Get rid of 'em, please!
Kudos to you, Trudi, for starting
this news-to-note! A brilliant idea!

Daphne you could start a new petition to make sure that the true activists
will soon have a realy caring activist system! I pledge just like Hans that we will support you to make it work! I bet that Andrew Tait would love to see you in charge of the animal advocacy groups! Lets work something out the way that Care2 is giving us a hard time should soon be over!

DAPHNE D (286)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 12:43 pm
i just mailed CARE2 since all AR comments was deleted in my news :

that was the 'cherry on the cake' dear friends
they deleted all AR comments against China & Care2 Support posted also!! enjoy the Hypocricy ....let them post my updates since they know all !!! im done like HANS -I HAD MORE THAN ENOUGH !! I AM FREE TO TALK & NO ONE WILL CHANGE THAT.

DAPHNE D (286)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 12:49 pm
the only thing i may do is poll cause i wanna see how many are willing to stay without freedom of speech & having all the trolls around & how many are gonna speak out their minds no matter what-non valid petitions - censorship-lack of action are more than enough reasons for me to hit the road like Hans...dont wait anymore posts & updates from me -im history.

Brenda H (29)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 12:52 pm
target :public

LOL LOL...ok ..whatever you say.. LOOK AT MAY 11 SIGNATURES--LOL

Ian M (38)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 1:05 pm
NOTED Trudi! Not a problem.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 1:12 pm
Daphne this realy sucks! But i can understand that you are now definitely done! Hans had started the true activists to try and see if there are enough people like you who realy make a difference! Well it took him very long to find out that there are not! please get in contact with Hans to see how we can start our own system for real activists! Max has posted some very great things yesterday i have seen a few things where i am sure that we could be up and running within a few weeks!
I hope that you will soon let us know where we can continue to fight !
I think that all the people in Care2 who realy Care2 would agree that we should not waste our time fighting Care2 where we should be fighting for the protection of animals and human rights like freedom of speech !
What does Care2 realy think that they will get if they continue this way!
Many great activists have left many are leaving and new activists come in find out that Care2 does not Care at all and quitt within a few days or weeks! It took Hans 6 months to find that out... no he heared that in December when Care2 told him that they could promote petitions at the rate of $1.30 per signature...with a guarantee of 3.500 signatures....
That was when he stopped clicking for the profit of Care2 since only cents go to the good cause when the dollars go to Care2!

Paul Burke (316)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 1:19 pm
Thanks for the heads up I was wondering what was missing about these and fell into this trap myself - might just stick to the front page for a while...

Trudi Reijnders (242)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 1:26 pm
I know this has nothing to do with the action alerts,but I checked Hans profile after reading Daphne's comment and yes,Hans's profile is gone:The profile you are looking for could not be found.
Reading now Johann's comment.I am not leaving for now,but Johann,once you guys have a site where we can there is freedom of speech,freedom to reach our goals without risking to be banned,please do let me know!!!

Joanna D (216)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 1:52 pm
Thanks Trudi!!
People - never, never sign the petition without target - the person/organisation etc. and without a letter!!!
The petition site is full of rubbish, there should be possibility to flag wrong petition!!!
Care2 delete all rubbish from the petition site!!
What about the alerts - no comments...

Bronwyn H (228)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 3:12 pm
Totally agree! Time wasters. I have used the feedback on the petition at times to ask 'Who is the target?' as only numbers have been display; no replies from them! Format needs tightening up.

Mick Gill (119)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 4:05 pm
I totaly agree with this, many times have I gone to sign a petition only to find that some mindless person with nothing better to do, has placed some missleading artical in trying to fool even more foolish people that sign it with out even reading it.

Kathy Chadwell (354)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 4:21 pm
Thank you Thank you Trudi
This is an issue that really needed addressing.

Kathy Chadwell (354)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 4:43 pm
I hope they pull all the petitions going nowhere off the site. They really do hurt the good ones.

June M (395)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 4:51 pm
DIDO! Thank you for this Trudi. Most of these so called Action Alerts that come to my mailbox I delete.I'd like to stop these action alerts from flooding my mailbox. Same thing when people ask me to note their articles. In my inbox at Care2 I have 7800 emails and have just so many hours in the day.

June M (395)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 4:54 pm
I've also used the feedback button and asked how all these alerts can be stopped. No answer. But then, there'd paid salary and not by how many they answer.

D W (40)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 6:28 pm
Thank you!

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 7:00 pm
excellant excellane and long overdue and needed post
and ron has made serious poinrt .people must learn research about their targets and what can really be accomplished . and signatures count most importantly into the thousands many thousands in some issues and a very braod spectrum of istes to psot the petition or send it sround to not just onc ar2 unless one has care2 backing or major org fronting the petition zas i learne dthe hard way with my petition for viviesction. even the major orgs didnt want my 8000 signatures fromc are signees.
one must take the time to do it right .this is a critical matter

. (0)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 7:08 pm
Thank you trudi

Linda M (40)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 10:32 pm
Thank you Trudi, This is great. I realised I was spending more time on petitions than on my 'own' causes'.

My wish list...

Definate targets and ban on placing pettions if go unpublished repeatedly.

I also would want better grouping so easier to search for already listed petitions.

I do get frustrated when I have a petiton out there and more new ones come up on the same topic (and perhaps withoout a target etc)

I will be more vigilant on on posting (sorry for any I have sent before getting this)

I would like to see more promotion of petitions done by external orgs eg WSPA on bear farming, ILPH on live transport of horses etc than activist petitions.

and finally - letter writing/e-mail is advised as a better means of achieving change. Okay it takes longer but if we really want change.......


Crystal R (18)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 10:51 pm
Amen! Noted with thanks.

Mara G (411)
Wednesday May 14, 2008, 11:13 pm
A letter from Kristen, Care2 support about petitions, and a message from Kate Golden, Assistant Editor of

Thursday November 1, 2007, 3:17 pm
To answer your question, is signing a petition effective? Yes - Often, but the answer really depends on a number of factors. In general, the more a target organization is impacted by public opinion, the more effective are the petitions. In addition, ThePetitionSite enhances the credibility of online petitions by centralizing signature collection, structuring/regulating signature data collection and output, facilitating communication of petitions via fax, email, etc. and by using fraud-reduction technology. Remember - the effect of a petition usually goes far beyond the actual list of signatures. Journalists write stories about the petitions, signers get inspired to take additional actions, and other potential targets conform their behavior to avoid being a target.

Most of all, petitions help build awareness in the community. They spread the word about important issues to those who otherwise might never have known about them. We must educate others to help them make
responsible changes in their lives.

"They are undeniably an excellent way to raise the visibility of a cause." Kate Golden, Assistant Editor of

If a petition is successful, it will be listed on the petition after it closes. You'll see a message similar to this one:

"This petition has succeeded! Dec 14, 2005 — On September 28th, the House passed H.R. 3402, a Department of Justice Reauthorization bill that incorportated several VAWA provisions by a vote of 415- 4. Then on October 4th, the Senate passed VAWA S. 1197 by unanimous consent. The last step is for the two versions to be reconciled. Thank you for all of your hard work!"

For most of our nonprofit petitions, we arrange real-time delivery of signatures by email, web form and fax. For government officials who don't accept email from their constituents, we either submit the information through their web form or we send a fax. For citizen petitions, the authors take responsibility for delivery of the signatures.

Hope this helps to clarify!

Care2 Support


In general, the more a target organization is impacted by public opinion, the more effective are the petitions. In addition, ThePetitionSite enhances the credibility of online petitions by centralizing signature collection, structuring/regulating signature data collection and output, facilitating communication of petitions via fax, email, etc. and by using fraud-reduction technology. Remember - the effect of a petition usually goes far beyond the actual list of signatures. Journalists write stories about the petitions, signers get inspired to take additional actions, and other potential targets conform their behavior to avoid being a target.

Most of all, petitions help build awareness in the community. They spread the word about important issues to those who otherwise might never have known about them. We must educate others to help them make
responsible changes in their lives.

"They are undeniably an excellent way to raise the visibility of a cause." Kate Golden, Assistant Editor of

NOTE: Care2 to a petition/action community and without petitions and forwarding to other members, then why are we here? Remember, there are people in Care2 that are the oposition to our causes, and they would like nothing better than to stop all positive activity in Care2, and what better way to do that than to say petitions are useless/worthless. If we are gullible enough to let that happen then animals and people will die. Before signing a petition: Read it, understand it, make sure it is legitimate, and if the petition isn't to your satisfaction, then help them make it better by "simply" sending them a note or helping them. Thats what we are all obligated to do as members and friends of this community.

Past Member (0)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 12:25 am
noted!I agree,that's happent too,to send petitions to my friends that they have already signed or receive some I've already signed too...that will be good to change the presentations of petitions with clear open/closed dates and the target at the top of the page...thank you

Past Member (0)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 12:26 am
Thanks June!
I've also used the feedback button and asked how all these alerts can be stopped. No answer. But then, there'd paid salary and not by how many they answer.
Is it so hard to answer the questions of great members like june instead of suspending members and deleting comments...
I hope that Care2 understands that this alert system is no good for the petitions....look how you can motivate the people to come in to care2 and sign petitions by making them find them! Hans told me that the petition on the wild painted dogs has been online for 2 months with only one signature had been online people could have found it..but there was no single by sending thousands of action alerts what will you get... reactions like this one from June and the one from Tim!
Please stop the action alerts or manage them the way people can decide if they want them or not....

Ria S (13)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 2:52 am
Thank you Trudi for this great article, I fully agree.

Also the new system of "action alerts" drives me nuts, message box is floading and I cannot see subject lines anymore.


Kenneth L (314)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 4:19 am
You got that right about petitions that have no targets stated as to who they're going to be sending them to. Those petitions are worthless. I would also include any petition that has some totally unreal goal for the number of signatures such as 100,000 or a million etc. In my estimation anything more than 50,000 is pie in the sky ridiculous. 20,000 would be tough enough but doable and worthwhile. Remember these petitions have a timeline either in their life or when they need to be given to the right party on some issue in order to actually DO something.

Past Member (0)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 4:53 am

Hans L (958)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 4:59 am
No target is the worst of all but new petitions on the same cause are also stupid and dont help the case! Why should petitions not be signed by millions of people? Just because there are no millions in here does not mean that there cannot be petitions with millions of signatures!

If the cause is important and the community cares you will
get millions of people to sign...
This one has been great for the whales:
Target: International Whaling Commission
Current Signatures: 1077645 One million seventyseventhousand sixhundertfourtyfive! All people who hate to see whales being killed...
Signature Goal: 1,000,000+

Just one example of a petition that could be signed by all Chinese people with internet access! This is not open to chinese public thanks to censorship!
All people who want to keep traditional chinese as language should sign this and 556989 have done that so far!

Linda D (41)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 5:30 am
Thanks for the input, Ron. G. I think good petitions have a ripple effect, like a pebble tossed in a pond in serving to educate and inspire journalists to write articles and some to write letters, etc. The petitions to governmental agencies where they are actually asking for feedback from the public are especially effective. Polar bears have just been listed as endangered, and I think it's directly due to public comment beginning with petitions and being enhanced by the media. Countries also feel the sting of global chastisement over their behavior and begin moving toward change. I'm thinking of Japan and their treatment of whales and dolphins and human rights issues and abuse in some Middle Eastern nations. Animal abuse is another. It's like shining a bright flashlight in the darkness focusing attention on something that needs attention.

Mary Evans (780)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 6:50 am
Thanks, and yes! I completely agree! I think a lot of people just don't know how to write petitions. There are a few groups on Care2 which can help!

Also...Action Alerts...What a horrible system that is! No clue from the subject line, just someone else's idea of what I should sign. I wish there was a way to turn it off so they wouldn't crowd up my box! It makes it hard to get to the mail that is really important for me to see! Not that petitions are not important, but I really prefer to just go to the petition site and pick out my own to sign, unless there's something someone reeeeeeeeeeeeeally wants me to see. Then it should have a subject line.

We're all here because we want to help make the world a little better in this way or that, so I think it's important we make our time count. Ill-written petitions and Action Alerts take up toooo much of people's time. Speaking for myself, it makes it hard for me to get through my mail to see if anyone wrote to me asking for help concerning their health. That's why I'm spread the word about natural health and to help people learn, as well as to help people with health challenges they may be facing, but I can't do it if I can't even get through my mail!

Thanks and I hope this helps...
Vibraceous, ND

. (0)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 7:45 am
Sick of Action alerts! I want a title, so I know if I already signed it or not. The other thing that would be great too, is if there was some system that would let you know who has already signed the news/petition. Like on the forward site, so we don't waste anybodies time with duplicates or more. Common care2 you can do this for us. And get the old petitions back.

Dorothy D (54)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 9:13 am
Awareness is still a good thing that comes from ALL petitions. It's simple really. Decide if you want to sign and/or forward and do that. If not, ignore! But remember even the petitions that go nowhere spread awareness and that isn't a bad thing.

Past Member (0)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 12:08 pm
....received as action alert, forwarded by friend who signed and passed on relevant to action alerts...whatever.


Past Member (0)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 12:23 pm
Part 2: A forwarded petition received had target and no sponsor ... if that matters, I have no way to know anyway sorry for 2nd post, this portion was not included with first post.

(Thanks Dorothy, I agree.)


Nancy Vernand (187)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 12:42 pm
This is a long overdue message to well-meaning Care2 members! A petition without a target that can make a difference is worthess. I have seen so many lately that I am not signing them unless 1)They have a target and 2) the target can and will make a difference.

Past Member (0)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 4:28 pm
noted thank you

Diana D (177)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 6:17 pm
noted and strongly agree. Thanks Trudi!!!

Laura M (4)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 6:36 pm
Wow ... thanks..laura

Linda M (40)
Thursday May 15, 2008, 10:18 pm
Just to share with others - change can be achieved, Here is a copy of e-mail received from Animals Australia on success of a recent letter writing (e-mail) campaign to close down a brutal abbatoir in Jordan. The letter writing campaign was targeted, specific in its request and had the information to 'prove the case' ie video .....

By the way, if you are not already, consider joining the Action team for Animals Australia and other orgs that support your activist aims.

From Animals Australia
I have some tremendous news—a wonderful victory for animals—that Animals Australia wouldn't have been able to achieve without you!

As you are aware, I have witnessed the most appalling cruelty during the investigations I conducted in the Middle East. Right up there with the worst, was the treatment of a bull in a private slaughterhouse in Jordan. The torture and agony that this animal endured has never left me, and has fuelled our determined efforts to have this facility closed.

So it is with great pleasure and relief that I can now tell you that as a direct result of our evidence and efforts—and with a little help from a Jordanian Princess—Animals Australia has forced the closure of this facility.

Our impasse with Jordanian authorities was overcome when our new Action Network writing teams emailed Jordan's Queen Rania to seek her intervention. Those emails were forwarded to the King's sister, Princess Alia, who has told us that she stormed into the Mayor's office and made the officials watch the footage. The Princess then conveyed the wonderful news that Animals Australia's actions had forced the closure of this slaughterhouse and the closure of the surrounding livestock market where we had documented appalling treatment of Australian sheep.

Princess Alia of Jordan has conveyed her deepest gratitude to Animals Australia—and I want to convey my deepest gratitude to you. My UK-based colleague and I would not have been able to undertake these investigations, expose such dreadful cruelty, and achieve tremendous outcomes such as this for animals, without your financial support.

Please stay with us on this journey. What we are doing is working—but our fight is far from over. Please make a special gift today so that we can continue our crucial efforts to expose and end animal cruelty.

As you have witnessed, Animals Australia is prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to do this, and provide animals with the strongest representation possible.


Linda M (40)
Friday May 16, 2008, 1:15 am
Okay - slightly off topic but have I missed somethin??? -What is the restrictions on comment content on news items now - I remember reading something in a comment re changes and did not take a lot of notice but two stories I have commented on (asking for action on related petitions, letter writing etc) have had comments removed repeatedly twice. I am very over this as it took me a lot of time to do and redo. If I cannot utilise the news service to raise awareness to related matters and actions then I am starting to wonder if it is worth the time.

Tom M (814)
Friday May 16, 2008, 3:06 am
Thanks Trudi!

Hans L (958)
Friday May 16, 2008, 3:19 am
How about double petitions? Care2 is just interested in the quantity not in the quality it is hard to find out if there is a petition because the search does not work as far as i tested it and you can make a petition that is open and will not get any signs for 2 months until you start posting!
I have received many action alerts on the new petition on Delphin slaughter in Japan ...but why should you do one petition over and over again with the same target if the old one has more than 100.000 signatures? And the new one aims at 2.500 ???
The new one:
The old one
* Signatures: 122,531
* Goal: 250,000
* Deadline: 6-8-2008
End Dolphin Slaughter in Japan

This is also a waste of time and effort more petitions dont make a difference a boycott on Japan would make a difference! We know that Japan
is happy to receive 1.000.000 signatures against whaling they accept them and the only thing that that will stop the killing is a BOYCOTT!
Target: Shinzo Abe, Prime Minister, Government of Japan

Brenda H (29)
Friday May 16, 2008, 12:17 pm

Trudi Reijnders (242)
Friday May 16, 2008, 2:18 pm
Well,with so many comments I think we all agree about legitimate targets,and we all agree about copy and paste action alerts into just one message in order to save time opening them.
But,when still receiving petitions in our mailboxes without proper targets,please send it back to sender why you don't sign it.
If we don't do that,(and I know that takes time as well)this will go on and on.
If we don't tell them,this invasion of action alerts in our mailboxes will never stop.
Just received another one with target:everyone.And I took the time to explain the sender why it's not ok to sign that one.
Thank you all for your comments!!!

Mara G (411)
Monday May 19, 2008, 1:03 am
Remember - the effect of a petition usually goes far beyond the actual list of signatures. Journalists write stories about the petitions, signers get inspired to take additional actions, and other potential targets conform their behavior to avoid being a target.

Most of all, petitions help build awareness in the community. They spread the word about important issues to those who otherwise might never have known about them. We must educate others to help them make
responsible changes in their lives.

"They are undeniably an excellent way to raise the visibility of a cause." Kate Golden, Assistant Editor of

NOTE: Care2 to a petition/action community and without petitions and forwarding to other members, then why are we here? Remember, there are people in Care2 that are the opposition to our causes, and they would like nothing better than to stop all positive activity in Care2, and what better way to do that than to say petitions are useless/worthless. If we are gullible enough to let that happen then animals and people will die. Before signing a petition: Read it, understand it, make sure it is legitimate, and if the petition isn't to your satisfaction, then help them make it better by "simply" sending them a note or helping them. Thats what we are all obligated to do as members and friends of this community.
There is NO SUCH THING as a worthless/useless petition as they are one of our best ways of bringing awareness to a cause. Thanks for the post Trudi.

Kathy Chadwell (354)
Monday May 19, 2008, 2:56 am
Hi Trudi, here something I just ran across and wanted to share because it hit on this very topic.
Now I have to wonder why this petition wasn't closed and used for the case?

Pregnant dog dragged 8 miles behind woman's car Petition

Pet-Abuse.Com - Animal Abuse Case Details: Pregnant dog dragged 8 miles behind car - Lahoma, OK (US)

Pregnant dog dragged 8 miles behind car
Lahoma, OK (US)
Incident Date: Saturday, Oct 9, 2004
County: Garfield

Disposition: Alleged

Alleged: Charlotte Ann Manor

Case Updates: 2 update(s) available

An Oklahoma mother is accused of animal cruelty after police contend she dragged her pregnant dog alongside her car for eight miles. Charlotte Ann Manor reportedly had her son hold the dog's leash out the car window and, as the two drove the eight miles to their home, the dog was supposed to follow alongside the car.

The dog survived and gave birth to a litter of puppies. But eyewitnesses say the skin was ripped from her legs. The dog is now being cared for by a foster family.

Charlotte Manor surrendered to authorities and now faces one count of animal cruelty.

Case Updates
Special District Judge J. Bruce Harvey found probable cause Charlotte Ann Manor, 40, committed animal cruelty last Oct. 9 when she directed her teenage son to stick his arm outside the car window and hold a pregnant dog’s leash while she drove.

Harvey said it appeared there was intent to drag the dog, but he questioned whether she intended to injure the dog during a preliminary hearing Wednesday.

“It certainly was not a wise thing to do,” Harvey said.

A witness said Manor’s son came with his shepherd mix to her door and asked to telephone his mother and ask her to pick him up. Nahtana Williams said when she allowed the boy to use her phone she heard him arguing with his mother about the dog. Manor and her son decided the two should meet at the corner store nearly three miles from Williams’ home.

Manor told her son she did not want the dog inside her car, Williams said.

Some time later and up to two hours after the teen and dog had left, Williams spotted a car in front of her home, then she saw the shepherd mix collapse. She called lawmen a short time later.

“The dog’s feet were rubbed off,” Williams testified, adding the dog’s pads in places were “just hanging there by a little skin.”

The deputy was called to the 5800 block of South Stabe after Williams reported Manor was abusing the dog, according to court documents. Williams said she heard Manor say she felt bad about the incident and she didn’t know the dog would be hurt.

Manor said she drove slowly, and the dog only fell down once, the affidavit states. She said it wasn’t dragged far before she stopped the car.

The dog was taken to Wheatland Animal Clinic by Lahoma Police Officer Bobby Hand, then released to Enid Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals once its injuries were treated, Hand said.

The felony charge carries up to five years in prison and a $5,000 fine.

Manor is due back in court June 15 for a district court arraignment.
Source: The Enid News & Eagle - May 12, 2005
Update posted on May 13, 2005 - 10:53PM

Back to Top
SPCA shelter director Vickie Fox said the dog, which is about 18 months old, now is fully recovered from those injuries and ready to find a new family.

The shepherd-husky mix has been living with an SPCA foster family and her seven puppies since the October incident, but Fox said the canine clan now is up for adoption. She said the 12-week-old puppies have grown too big for the foster home so SPCA officials are trying to track down new homes for them.

One of the puppies already has been adopted, but the other six — four males and two females — still are available, as is their mother, Fox said. The mother dog weighs about 60 pounds, so Fox figures the puppies will grow to about that size. Now, they range from about 20 to 28 pounds.

The dogs are housebroken and trained to use a dog door, she said. Fox said some of the male puppies have been neutered, but all of them will be fixed and up-to-date on their shots by the time they are adopted.

Those services are included in the SPCA’s $60 adoption fee. For more information about the dogs or others available for adoption, contact the SPCA at 233-1325 or visit the shelter at 1116 Overland Trail.
Source: The Enid News - Jan 8, 2005
Update posted on Jan 9, 2005 - 6:03AM


Karen B (289)
Monday May 19, 2008, 1:04 pm
Trudi you are an angel. I couldn't agree more. I have received so many petitions that are completely useless. I can't believe that Care2 doesn't have some guidelines on how to write a petition. A petition should have a date started, a deadline date, a signature goal, a current signature count, should be addressed to a specific target, should be well written, grammatically correct, NO spelling errors, and I think it should give the name of the petition author and how/when it will be delivered. And then, there should be some way of notfiying all the signees that it was delivered and an update; the way a credible group (Defenders of Wildlife) operates. I am an avid activist for wolves and I actually received a petition recently whose target was: SAVE THE WOLVES. Like people above have stated -- a complete waste of everyones' time. Care2 -- let's make petitions right! Have a site where petitions really matter and work.

Roxann C (398)
Monday May 19, 2008, 10:44 pm

Marena Chen (200)
Wednesday June 4, 2008, 5:01 am
***Just look at this "MAGIC" my name appeared but the writing disappeared. Maybe this is a sign that I should keep quiet****

However I need to say what I need to say... My grouse is this: I am continiously receiving petitions and action alerts which are for US and/or CANADIAN citizens only, where one has to write to ones Congressman etc. Also the appeals to adopt animals (it breaks my heart that I can't help because I live on the other side of the world) I have written to the senders to please not do that anymore - but did it stop? NO IT DID/HAS NOT. My mailbox is always full of such mails. I hope it will stop as it is wasting my and the sender's time. Please be considerate. Thank you

Marena Chen (200)
Wednesday June 4, 2008, 5:04 am
****More Magic**** my empty post had disappeared.

Ceci Blaugrane (563)
Wednesday June 4, 2008, 5:49 am
Noted. Very true. It's pointless signing or creating petitions without proper targets. Moreover, if they're poorly written and / or in ALL CAPS, they're just useless. Unfortunately. It's not care2's fault though that people can't figure that out. Sigh...

Ceci Blaugrane (563)
Wednesday June 4, 2008, 5:51 am
And I couldn't agree more on the action alerts. With a friends list of over 500, and some friends sending tens of action alerts per day, I have hardly time for anything else but deleting the said alerts while on care2.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday June 4, 2008, 6:56 am
Anyone sending or making these petitions please do not put that annoying
% thing with words that are jumbled or similar jargon. Clear and sharp text and paragraphs only that explains precisely what the petition is about otherwise I will delete them. I will no longer be a carrier of junk mail or pass it on.

Elizabeth N (40)
Wednesday June 4, 2008, 2:15 pm
I really agree with this idea.

L. T (34)
Saturday June 7, 2008, 2:00 pm
Thanks Jocelyne for sending this to me and Trudi for the post which I have noted. I will do my best to not forward any petitions that are not valid because I know everyones time is precious and our goal here is to help not hinder.

ROBIN M (312)
Sunday June 8, 2008, 5:33 am

Action alerts are Petitions that are being sent to others.
know the"send it to 5 friends",
I have more than 200 friends,You,for example
are sending me at least 10 and more every day.Imagine having a couple of friends
doing the same,I cannot handle it any longer,it is too much.
First:I know
where the petitionsite site is,so I can find the petitions myself.
do you send every petition you sign to other people?They know as well where the
petitionsite is.
Thirdid n't you read the message I sent you the other
day,telling you and 2 other persons sent me 45 action alerts in a short
Fourth:The news I submitted the other day,leading you to the petition
about action alertsidn't you see there was this same message I sent to the
three of you inside the petition???

I don't understand that you signed the petition,without reading,and
now,more than that ,you ask me what action alerts are.So you signed it,not
knowing what it was about???


Nancy B (88)
Thursday June 12, 2008, 2:32 pm
Thank you all for your caring deeply about causes on care 2 - Dear Robin I am sorry some people are just not nice at times for sure . ALL of us on here just want to help , It is so sad that even though we are all on here for the same reason some are upset with others for caring and not realizing that most of us have a lot of friends that send to us so we end up getting flooded with petitions . Each and every one of you here on care 2 are WONDERFUL , KIND , CARING people so we just have to find a way to work TOGETHER to help . I wonder if it would just be better if we ALL go to the petition site to sign our petitions to help the causes we care about instead of swamping each others boxes . We all send the alerts to each other because we CARE , so why dont we make it so we only use our boxes to keep in touch with each other and if we see a petition we really care about we can ask our friends have they seen it . For sure we need feedback on the results of the petitions so we dont feel we are spending hours doing this for nothing . We are here on care 2 to help and these are the way to join us all together for a strong voice but please dont let it be the cause of so many of our WONDERFUL friends leaving . There has to be a way we can help yet not spend our lives going thru useless petitions . Some of us just plain didnt realize - we thought we were doing a good thing from our hearts . There are so few truely caring people in this ole world and I WAS ABOUT TO GIVE UP ON THE HUMAN RACE UNTIL MY DAUGHTER TOLD ME ABOUT CARE2 . I have been so Blessed to get to know and be friends with some PRECIOUS , LOVING , CARING , KIND people and they gave me hope again . I seem to be rambling so I will shut up but I hope with all of my heart that we can fix this so that we can all stay here and help . EACH & EVERY one of you is a very Special person ! Thank you all for your loving hearts !

Patsy P (37)
Monday June 16, 2008, 9:59 am
THe real dead ends are the fake Missing Persons reports !that realy makes me mad ! Wasted time looking for someone that really is not missing ! that wasted time could be better uses fr helping someone really in need of Help !

The goal is not to get the greenstars, Nor testimonils, and pics.. There nice, But this is not a MOst POpular contest... We do not get badges.Badges are the Point you tried to help someone,or animals, Or environment in need !

Charles F (16)
Friday January 9, 2009, 5:56 am
In connection with this:

Perused and noted. Thanks, Trudi.

Cher C (1426)
Friday May 15, 2009, 10:58 pm

And I am noting Nyack that the same issues about petitions arise on here one year later! :)

25?? :( :(

Thnx Trudi!!!


Trudi Reijnders (242)
Saturday May 16, 2009, 12:37 am
Indeed Cher,exactly 1 year later and nothing has changed.Many left and fight for their causes elsewhere.
Many new members have joined,and still the unawareness of the importance by reading carefully petitions,the unawareness of what a target should be,and unfortunately still a lot of time wasted.
That why it's good Pam submitted her news:
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