Hello; this is the Mutiny thread and I am BMutiny.

This thread exists to discuss and educate, on the subject of MUTINY all thruout history.

It will deal with FACTS; FACTS that are often suppressed by "official" historians. THERE IS NOTHING THE RULING CLASS FEARS WORSE, THAN WIDESPREAD MUTINY. But, for all the attempts to SUPPRESS such FACTUAL information, MUTINIES HAVE INDEED OCCURRED THRUOUT ALL OF HISTORY; beginning at LEAST with ALEXANDER THE GREAT -- his elite Macedonian guard, whose revolt and sit-down-strike cut short Alexander's wished-for conquest of India. Alexander showed his "Greatness" by doing the smart thing when his troops revolted; he declared Victory, raised altars of thanks to the Gods, and headed for home!!!

Mutinies have OFTEN CHANGED THE COURSE OF HISTORY; as the aforementioned revolt by Alexander's troops did.

We will also deal with the subject of MUTINY, in the Arts, such as in fiction and film; and discuss it from the PSYCHOLOGICAL aspect, which the Arts often throw light on.

WHEN DOES A PERSON OR A GROUP OF PEOPLE, DECIDE THEY HAVE HAD ENOUGH????????????????

I will be adding to this thread from time-to-time; as my time on Care2 will be somewhat limited these days, as I am involved in some campaigns to get bills passed that take me "out on the streets".

Feel free to comment or to add from your OWN historical and current researches; but, off-topic subjects WILL DEFINITELY BE DELETED.

LOOKING AT THE TRUE STORIES OF THE MUTINIES OF THE PAST, GIVES US A PERSPECTIVE ON THOSE MUTINIES THAT ARE HAPPENING NOW, EVEN AS I WRITE THIS.

1300 Iraqi troops MUTINIED just last week -- WOULD NOT FIGHT FOR THEIR U.S. "MASTERS" THAT HAD TRAINED AND SUPPLIED THEM!!! Clearly, the Iraqi troops HAD THEIR OWN AGENDA.

I am ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED, that the REASON the British troops left Basra last month, the ONLY reason, was, BECAUSE THE BRITISH TROOPS WERE ON THE VERGE OF MUTINY. That was not GIVEN as the reason, of course! But, I am sure as sure can be, that their precipitate departure WAS NOT PLANNED; AND WAS NOT APPROVED BY THE BUSHCO MIS-ADMINISTRATION.

WHEN TROOPS MUTINY, THEY TAKE THEIR DESTINIES INTO THEIR OWN HANDS.

THEIR COUNTRIES, OFFICIALS, OFFICERS, RULING CLASSES -- THEN HAVE NO CHOICE, BUT TO ADJUST SOMEHOW!

It was WIDESPREAD MUTINIES ACROSS NATIONAL BOUNDARIES, by common soldiers AND CIVILIANS SUPPORTING THEM BY STRIKING IN MUNITIONS FACTORIES, that brought WWI to a close. No, it was NOT the intervention of America that ended WWI!!!!!!

I was SHOCKED to learn this!!!! I, like you, had ALWAYS been taught about the "heroic Americans" "SAVING Europe" -- !!!!!! The whole history of Europe and Hitler and WWII, now MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE......!!!!!!!!!!!!

Humphrey Bogart in his unforgettable performance as crazy Captain Queeg, going to pieces on the witness stand in the courts-martial trial of his officers who took his command away from him, in "The Caine Mutiny", 1951.

WHEN DOES A MILITARY MAN DECIDE HE HAS HAD ENOUGH?????

 [ send green star]

This song, was ACTUALLY SUNG BY NEWLY-ARRIVED US TROOPS IN BAGHDAD, who got in trouble for it, and got punished for singing it -- by being made to do extra push-ups {I suppose it could have been worse}. The title and first line of the song, comes verbatim from a newspaper headline in the local paper, referring to the 343rd Quartermasters, who refused to drive insufficiently-protected vehicles thru an enemy fire zone {which all Iraq is}, vehicles transporting aircraft fuel oil which was DANGEROUS AND UNUSABLE ANYWAY, as it had been CONTAMINATED by being carried in trucks that had held a DIFFFERENT sort of fuel, and had not been cleaned in between times. The contaminated oil would have been a DANGER to the pilots flying the aircraft it was intended for -- therefore, the "mission" was USELESS, if not worse. Several soldiers in the 343rd Quartermasters refused a DIRECT ORDER to drive the fuel trucks. One of them, being punished for it, wrote home and got their Congressperson involved; and it became a national scandal, as some of you may remember. {All punishments were then lifted; because of the publicity.}

The melody is, Pogo's "Deck the Halls with Boston Charlie" {also known as, "Deck the Halls with Boughs of Holly"}.

"Troops Refuse To Go On Mission"

      Fa la la la la, la la la la.

It's a Suicide Expedition

      Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Don we now our body armor

      Fa la la, la la la, la la la --

Oops, they don't supply us till next summer

      Fa la la la la, la la la la!

---------------------------------------

This is like in "The Caine Mutiny"

      Fa la la la la, la la la la.

The whole Command comes under scrutiny

      Fa la la la la, la la la la.

How're we gonna get out of THIS mess

      Fa la la, la la la, la la la?

Let's bring ALL troops home by Christmas

      Fa la la la la, la la la la!

 [ send green star]

[From a blog by  David Vickrey]

Many years ago I was a college student in Boston, afraid of the military draft and full of rage at a war that had already killed too many young men of my generation. At an anti-war demonstration a young Vietnam vet running for office stood up and spoke to the crowd about his war experience and the need for change. At the end of his speech he recited the following poem (English version):

GENERAL, DEIN TANK IST EIN STARKER WAGEN

Er bricht Wälder nieder. Er zermalmt hundert Menschen.
Aber er hat einen Fehler. Er braucht einen Fahrer.

General, dein Bombenflugzeug ist stark.
Es fliegt schneller als der Sturm
und trägt mehr als ein Elefant.
Aber es hat einen Fehler. Es braucht einen Monteur.

General, der Mensch ist sehr brauchbar,
er kann fliegen, er kann töten.
Aber er hat einen Fehler. Er kann denken.

GENERAL, YOUR TANK IS A POWERFUL VEHICLE
It smashes down forests and crushes a hundred men.
But it has one defect:
It needs a driver.

General, your bomber is powerful.
It flies faster than a storm and carries more than an elephant.
But it has one defect:
It needs a mechanic.

General, man is very useful.
He can fly and he can kill.
But he has one defect:
He can think.

The young veteran was John Kerry.

 [ send green star]

Some Mutinies, a few:

Alexander the Great's Macedonian troops won't let him finish conquering India, get their wish to head for home. [Shown in the recent film, Alexander the Great.]

Widespread mutinies in British Navy, at Spital and Nore, tie up British shipping and port of London, bring about great changes in British Admiralty and horrible existing conditions for sailors. [Bad conditions as shown in the Charles Laughton film, Mutiny on the Bounty. Not the same Mutiny as those at Spital and Nore, tho, which were NAVY-WIDE, not just confined to ONE ship.]

WWI Christmas truce by troops, is a spontaneous and voluntary laying down of weapons on BOTH sides; troops threatened by officers with execution, some executions carried out, truce ends. [There is a recent film, The Christmas Truce.]

WWI participation by Russian troops ends when Russian troops simply turn around and walk away from the front {magnificent and touching scene in the film, Dr. Zhivago; returning troops aid Russian Revolution, depose Czar and Romanov dynasty, shake up all crowned heads of every European country, several monarchies end rule.

WWI ends, not when American troops go "over there" to end it, but when SAILORS OF GERMAN IMPERIAL NAVY REFUSE TO GO FIGHT BRITISH NAVY, Bremerhafen, look it up, if you can find a Socialist version of true history! Widespread Socialist organization aboard battleships, self-rule by German sailors! some officers join, civilians WORKING IN MUNITIONS FACTORIES support sailors by GOING ON STRIKE. WWI ENDS! Sailor and civilian revolts put down with much bloodshed, German Ruling Class advances myth of "We were stabbed in the back", backs Adolf Hitler out of desperation. [Textbooks I have read, you, too, probably, say, merely "There was a lot of UNREST"!!!!!!!!!] [There is NOTHING the Ruling Class fears so much........as knowledge!!!!]

WWI, Eugene V. Debs conducts his Presidential campaign from a jail cell, put there by violating Espionage and Sedition Act. Act specifies "20 years imprisonment" for "willfully causing disloyalty or insubordination" among U.S. troops. Debs sentenced to 10 years, serves 2 1/2 years, gets commutation of sentence from president Harding. Doesn't get elected President.

Going back a ways...... Mexican-American war, Irish immigrant Catholic soldiers don't like fighting Catholic Mexicans. 200 U.S. troops desert to fight on Mexican side. Known as "St. Patrick's Battalion" or "San Patricios", they are regarded as HEROES today in Mexico; and they {descendents?} MARCH IN THE ST. PATRICK'S DAY PARADE IN SAN FRANCISCO!!!! I ONLY FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS GROUP, JUST NOW THIS HOUR WHILE DOING RESEARCH FOR THIS POSTING!!!!!!! MORE TRUE HISTORY WE ARE NEVER TAUGHT IN OUR SCHOOLS!!!!!!!!!

Viet Nam war ENDS when U.S. soldiers ASSASSINATE THEIR OFFICERS, go instead to smoke marijuana with the Viet Cong "enemy". A new word, "fragging" enters the language; from "fragmentation grenade", used to assassinate "gung-ho" officers enthusiastic for fighting. It is said that at least 400 officers were "fragged" by their own troops. Often an entire UNIT colluded in the killing of their officer. It got so that no-one wanted a promotion; which was like a DEATH SENTENCE! Civilians SUPPORT THE MUTINYING SOLDIERS by demonstrations, GI coffeehouses, alternative newspapers, and many, many other means. CIVILIAN SUPPORT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. See the film, Sir! No Sir! as a very informative documentary on the subject.

I WILL LATER ON GIVE REFERENCES AND LINKS TO THESE FACTUAL HISTORICAL EVENTS.

IRAQ WAR -- NUMEROUS instances of mutinies large and small, many of which are successfully kept from the public, army TRIES to control the Internet, but can't completely. Washington Post reporter CLAIMS THAT PILOTS REFUSE TO BOMB IRAN, START YET ANOTHER WAR. Persistent "rumors" to that effect. I BELIEVE THEM. ALL indications were, BUSHCO WANTED TO BOMB, and was PLANNING to and SETTING IT UP. If it weren't for the PILOT'S REFUSAL, I believe we'd be in the midst of WWIII right now....... for more, see my blog, and Denis Morriseau, "The Uses of Mutiny".

IRAQIS DESERT BY THE THOUSAND. Just last week! BRITISH TROOPS THREATEN MUTINY, WITHDRAW FROM BASRA.

Doesn't that make the U.S. troops look, well, FOOLISH...... WHY SHOULD THEY KEEP ON FIGHTING???? WHEN EVERYONE ELSE HAS QUIT ON THEM? WHEN THEY ARE ALL ALONE? WHEN THE WORLD DOES NOT SUPPORT THEM??????????

WHEN WILL THE AMERICAN TROOPS SAY, WE'VE HAD ENOUGH OF SACRIFICING OUR LIVES FOR BUSH AND FOR OIL?????!!!!!!!!!! 

By the way -- the penalty for Desertion, is NOT execution -- it is ONLY FIVE YEARS IMPRISONMENT!!!! LESS THAN THE PENALTY FOR ADVOCATING DESERTION!!!!!! And, the maximum penalty is RARELY inflicted -- the LAST thing the military wants, is to DRAW ATTENTION TO MUTINY!!!!! The very LAST THING!!!!!!!

 [ send green star]

Back again to WWI -- widespread mutinies by FRENCH, RUSSIAN, GERMAN, BRITISH, CANADIAN, AUSTRALIAN TROOPS -- !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! End the war, prevent Ruling Class from keeping armies in the field and -- invading Communist Russia!

Canadian and other troops are LIED TO, start being sent north to the Soviet Union to put down Bolshevik Revolution, find out the deception, REFUSE TO GO!!!! INSIST ON GOING HOME!!!!

Weak Soviet Union repels relatively few invaders with not too much difficulty. Those who ARE fighting Soviets are not very enthusiastic, some go over to the other side. Europe gives up on trying to restore Russian monarchy and evict Bolshevik Communists.

FOR GOOD OR BAD, HISTORY IS DEFINITELY CHANGED WHEN SOLDIERS OF ALL NATIONS REFUSE TO PURSUE FIGHTING THE RUSSIANS AFTER WWI FIGHTING GERMANS ENDS. Russian Revolution LEFT ALONE to pursue its own course.

===============

The thing Southern slaveholders feared MOST, was a SLAVE REVOLT. It was forbidden even to TALK ABOUT such things! where a slave might overhear you! The Southern newspapers, and literature that came from the Northern U.S., were SEVERELY CENSORED!

By the same token, THE RULING CLASS LETS ITS OFFICIAL HISTORIANS KNOW, THAT CERTAIN SUBJECTS ARE OFF-LIMITS. [Unless so SAFELY in the past, as Alexander the Great!!!] No high school or college textbook publisher, would DARE print what I have researched here -- often from THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS that I have seen and researched on the Internet!!!!!!!!!! I would NEVER HAVE SEEN SOME OF THESE THINGS if it weren't for the Internet, and the GREAT VARIETY OF SOURCES you get from googling!

We have ALL been given a TOTALLY DISTORTED VIEW OF HISTORY......... yes, even us LIBERALS, from LIBERAL SCHOOLS, from LIBERAL FAMILIES..........

 [ send green star]

Thus, for example, following the mutinies at Spithead and Nore, which resulted from harsh discipline and low pay, it was made an offence, under the Incitement to Mutiny Act 1797, to seduce any member of the armed forces "from his duty and allegiance to His Majesty" or to incite them to commit an act of mutiny. During the first prosecution under the Act counsel described this statute as being "a temporary statute, and a measure of extraordinary vigour". The history of this and other similar statutes demonstrates some of the problems inherent in the creation of new statutory forms of incitement.

Despite the fact that the 1797 Act was said to be temporary in nature it remains in being to the present day. Prosecutions have been relatively rare and the higher courts have never had to consider the precise interpretation of the statute. Nevertheless, the use that has been made of the statute has frequently proved to be controversial and has often been accompanied by allegations of political partiality both in relation to who has and who has not been prosecuted under the Act. Thus, for example, in 1912 five people were prosecuted after they had been involved in the publication of "An Open Letter to British Soldiers" in "The Syndicalist". The letter, published at a time when there was considerable industrial conflict, encouraged soldiers not to kill civilians, reminding those soldiers of their working-class roots. In the House of Commons in July 1912 Sir J D Rees commented that if "there be any crime which is a great crime, a crime against society, against the Constitution, against the country, against every British subject, it is the crime of urging troops not to shoot". As a consequence of the public outcry that followed the convictions of the five who had been associated with "The Syndicalist", the Home Secretary exercised the prerogative of mercy and reduced the sentences on all those convicted. There was, nevertheless, a persistent perception that prosecution under the Act was as much a political as a legal matter.

In the following year Bonar Law indicated his support for Ulster Protestants' opposition to Home Rule and suggested that the Army should, if necessary, refuse to obey orders if ordered to quell this opposition. Neither Bonar Law nor Sir Edward Carson, who expressed similar sentiments, was prosecuted under the 1797 Act.

In 1931 a mutiny in Invergordon resulted from cuts in the pay to members of the Royal Navy. Prosecutions under the 1797 Act followed. That Act had made it an offence to seduce a serviceman from his "duty and allegiance to His Majesty". The 1934 Incitement to Disaffection Act made it an offence to seduce a servicemen from his "duty or his allegiance", thus expanding the ambit of the law. The Act was widely criticized as being an unnecessary restriction on freedom of speech. This perception remains to this day, Bradley and Ewing noting for example that the Act "does restrain certain forms of political propaganda". The 1934 Act eventually produced the only occasion on which the higher courts have had to pronounce on this form of legislation. In 1973 Pat Arrowsmith, a pacifist campaigner, and others distributed leaflets to the married quarters of soldiers living in the Warminister area. The leaflets, which were put out in the context of British involvement in Northern Ireland, contained quotations from soldiers who had deserted and gave advice about how to desert to either Sweden or the Republic of Ireland. The leaflets also contained information on Army regulations regarding discharge and argued that soldiers should refuse to serve in Northern Ireland. In judgement, the court described the leaflet as being "not only mischievous but…wicked" (p 684). Ms. Arrowsmith was convicted and the Court of Appeal subsequently upheld the conviction although it reduced her sentence because the Director of Public Prosecutions had on a previous occasion refused to prosecute her for distributing the same literature, arguably leading her to believe that she would never be prosecuted (p 691). However, an attempt to prosecute 14 pacifists who had distributed similar leaflets failed when the jury, seemingly on the basis of a perverse verdict, refused to convict. It is necessary to obtain the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions before there can be a prosecution under the 1934 Act—this necessity being specifically introduced because of the "uncertain scope of the Act" which had created an offence of "a political or possibly political flavour". Nevertheless, some have seen prosecutions under the 1934 Act, as in the case of the 1797 Act (which does not have this requirement), as being motivated as much by political considerations as because of legal reasons. Thus, for example, Roberston has commented that:

"[the] most powerful incitement to disaffection was made in the 1987 election campaign by the Prime Minister, Mrs Thatcher, who announced that service chiefs should consider resigning in protest if the Labour party were elected and sought to implement its non-nuclear policy."

Some but probably not all of the behaviour above would, irrespective of the provisions of the 1797 and 1934 Acts, be caught by more general public order legislation. In 1968, people handing out anti-Vietnam leaflets, which amongst other things called for American soldiers to desert, were convicted of conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace contrary to the then s 5(b) of the Public Order Act 1936

=========

Interesting to compare British & American law on this subject. {The U.S. Espionage and Sedition Act of 1917 -- also still in force today.}

 [ send green star]

......Incitement is, in origin, a common law offence. However, it "is not widely used by prosecutors in England".[71] It is an offence to incite another person to commit a criminal offence even though that other offence has not been committed or even attempted[72]. At common law, for there to be incitement there has to be both some form of communication with a person whom it is intended to incite and, in that communication, some attempt to persuade or encourage that person to commit a criminal offence[73]. However, for there to be incitement at common law it is not necessary to prove that the person who it was attempted to incite was in fact affected by the attempt, and incitement may exist even though the attempt was unsuccessful[74]. Moreover the persuasion inherent in the incitement can be implicit[75]. The incitement does not have to be directed towards a specified person or group of persons but, rather, may be general[76]. To be guilty of incitement one must normally intend that the offence that is being incited will be committed, but sometimes recklessness as to whether or not the offence is committed will suffice.

71.  Incitement has on occasion been used in instances where there has been an attempt to stir up hatred of a particular person or groups of persons. However in such instances the hatred incited has itself taken the form of a criminal offence. Thus in R v Most, the accused (Most) published in London in his German language newspaper, an article, "Die Freiheit". In that article he was found to have incited his readership "to the murder of the Emperor Alexander, or the Emperor William, or, in the alternative, the crowned and uncrowned heads…from Constantinople to Washington" (p 252).

72.  From time to time, specific forms of incitement have been made statutory criminal offences, often as a reaction to the perception that a novel social mischief has arisen or that an existing mischief has become particularly damaging to society. Thus, for example, following the mutinies at Spithead and Nore, which resulted from harsh discipline and low pay, it was made an offence, under the Incitement to Mutiny Act 1797, to seduce any member of the armed forces "from his duty and allegiance to His Majesty" or to incite them to commit an act of mutiny. During the first prosecution under the Act counsel described this statute as being "a temporary statute, and a measure of extraordinary vigour".[77] The history of this and other similar statutes demonstrates some of the problems inherent in the creation of new statutory forms of incitement.

===============

FREEDOM OF SPEECH issues as they are perceived in Great Britain {by the House of Lords}.

 [ send green star]

This is from the book, 50 AMERICAN REVOLUTIONS YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW; Reclaiming American Patriotism. By Mickey Z. [That is ALSO where the info on the San Patricios MUTINY came from.]

America's entrance into World War I...... provoked a tightening of civil liberties, culminating with the passage of the Espionage and Sedition Act in June 1917. This totalitarian salvo read in part: "Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully cause or attempt to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty in the military or naval forces of the United States, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment of not more than 20 years, or both."

One year after the Espionage and Sedition Act was voted into law, Debs was in Canton, Ohio for a Socialist Party convention. He was arrested for making a speech deemed "anti-war" by the Canton district attorney. In that speech, Debs declared, "They have always taught and trained you to believe it to be your patriotic duty to go to war and to have yourselves slaughtered at their command. But in all the history of the world you, the people, have never had a voice in declaring war; and strange as it certainly appears, no war by any nation in any age has ever been declared by the people.

"Do not worry over this charge of treason to your masters, but be concerned about the treason that involves yourselves," he concluded. "Be true to yourself and you cannot be a traitor to any good cause on earth."

These words led to a 10-year prison sentence and the stripping of his U.S. citizenship. At his sentencing, Debs famously told the judge:

Your honor,years ago, I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth.I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

While serving his sentence in the federal penitentiary, Debs was nominated for the fifth time; campaigned from his jail cell; and remarkably garnered 917,799 votes.

President Woodrow Wilson ignored all pleas to release Debs from prison. But, after serving 2 years and 8 months, behind bars, President Warren G. Harding commuted his sentence on Christmas Day 1921.

THE ESPIONAGE AND SEDITION ACT IS STILL ON THE BOOKS TODAY.

========

And, I can add: While the 1917 Act stated that these penalties were to be "in time of war"; THERE WAS A LATER ADDITION TO THE ACT, that EXTENDED THE PENALTIES TO ALL TIMES; NOT JUST "IN TIME OF WAR". This was added during the Cold War years. I can look up the date. THIS VERSION OF THE ESPIONAGE AND SEDITION ACT IS STILL THE LAW OF THE LAND.

However, like the British law of 1797, IT IS RARELY INVOKED. There would be a HUGE PUBLIC OUTCRY; and right now, it suits the Ruling Class and the Military TO NOT DRAW ATTENTION TO THE ACTS OF MUTINY and to the "incitements" to Mutiny.

I found out about this Act, when I asked a person I know who sells buttons and bumperstickers, to make one for me saying, "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS - HELP THEM GO AWOL". I had been carrying a sign to that effect, in many demos -- which got me photographs and interviews in the FOREIGN press!!!!!! {The U.S. media, of course, ignored that sign!!!} My friend told me he could not make such a button or bumpersticker, because of the terms of the Espionage and Sedition Act!!!!!!

It is VERY INTERESTING, that the {theoretical} PENALTIES FOR INCITING TO MUTINY, ARE GREATER -- FOUR TIMES GREATER!!!! -- THAN THE PENALTIES FOR ACTUALLY MUTINYING.

It is a MYTH that people are "stood up against the wall and shot" for mutiny. NOT THESE DAYS. In WWI, maybe. But, NOT FOR OVER SIXTY YEARS IN THE U.S. ARMY. The LAST person shot by the U.S. military for desertion, was Private Slovik, in 1944. The Execution of Private Slovik is a book, and a film starring Martin Sheen. [It is also a CARE2 PETITION; which I believe you will find on ARCHIVED THREADS in this group!}

THE MAXIMUM PENALTY FOR DESERTION NOW, IS FIVE YEARS. Plus I suppose you get a dis-honorable discharge, lose all the benefits you signed up to get in the first place, etc. As in the Espionage Act case, however, THE MAXIMUM PENALTY IS RARELY, OR NEVER, INVOKED. The Military just HATES drawing ANY ATTENTION AT ALL, TO MUTINY!!!!!!!!

In the case of the 343rd Quartermasters refusal to follow orders, for example, the ONLY penalty they suffered, was A FEW DAYS in the brig; and BREAKING UP THEIR UNIT AND SENDING PEOPLE TO DIFFERENT UNITS {to break up their SOLIDARITY, of course}.

[Of course, it has to be taken into account that there could be ILLEGAL penalties, too. THERE ARE STORIES, RUMORS -- well-founded, I think! -- OF THE MURDER IN IRAQ OF PRO-PEACE SOLDIERS, and being made to look like an "accident", "suicide", "friendly fire", etc.]

 [ send green star]

From my group, War Poems by BMutiny/ Barbara:

ANTI-SUICIDE
[A ten-year-old kid at a demo where I read this, pointed out to me what I hadn't noticed before: that this can actually be sung to the tune of "The Star-Spangled-Banner"! Try it!]

-

ANTI-SUICIDE

Don’t swallow those pills

Don’t blow out your brains

Seek the end of your ills

Seek the cure for your pains

In another direction: go AWOL

From the military.

-

You don’t have to die

Don’t have to obey

You have freedom of thought

You have freedom to pray.

Seek another solution:

Be a Conscientious Objector

From the military.

-

Don’t give up hope

Don’t turn to dope –-

Don’t BE a dope.

-

There are those who will aid you

Just believe in the Powers that made you.

Affirm Life. Desert

From the military.

-

You have freedom of action

You are free to decide

You own your own conscience

You stand on your pride.

-

According to the Nuremburg Laws

You must not follow illegal orders.

According to all International Law

Bush’s "pre-emptive" war on Iraq

is illegal.

-

[Circulating the above material to soldiers may put one in violation of a Federal Law dating back to the days of WWI.]

[You should know this.  Please circulate it anyway.]

===========

MORE SOLDIERS HAVE COMMITTED SUICIDE WHO SERVED IN VIET NAM, THAN WERE KILLED BY THE "ENEMY" THERE.

AMERICAN SOLDIERS IN THE PRESENT, ARE COMMITTING SUICIDE AT THE STUNNING FIGURE OF -- 120 SUICIDES A DAY!!!

HOW MUCH CAN A SOLDIER TAKE, BEFORE EITHER DESERTION, MUTINY, OR SUICIDE, ARE THE ONLY OPTIONS???????????

[THIS IS MEANT FOR A REAL, NOT A RHETORICAL, QUESTION.]

 [ send green star]

=======

A year later, there was an article about  "rumors" of pilots REFUSING to bomb Iran, in The Washington Post.....

 [ send green star]

THE COLLAPSE OF THE ARMED FORCES

By Col. Robert D. Heinl, Jr.
North American Newspaper Alliance
Armed Forces Journal, 7 June, 1971

Table of Contents

Introduction

Bounties And Evasions

Society Notes

The Action Groups

Tough Laws, Weak Courts

Tactics of Harassment

Racial Incidents

Drugs and the Military

No Street Is Safe

Desertions and Disasters

Non-Volunteer Force?

Soulbone Connected to the Backbone

No Office for the Ombudsman

The Vocalists

Word to the Whys

A Hard Lot at Best

"THE MORALE, DISCIPLINE and battleworthiness of the U.S. Armed Forces are, with a few salient exceptions, lower and worse than at anytime in this century and possibly in the history of the United States.

By every conceivable indicator, our army that now remains in Vietnam is in a state approaching collapse, with individual units avoiding or having refused combat, murdering their officers and non commissioned officers, drug-ridden, and dispirited where not near mutinous."

========

Also see the ARCHIVED THREADS IN THIS GROUP; especially the EARLIEST ones; especially the one headed "LESSONS OF VIET NAM".

 [ send green star]

The situation stateside was less intense but no less disturbing to the military brass. Desertion and AWOL became absolutely epidemic. In 1966 the desertion rate was 14.7 per thousand, in 1968 it was 26.2 per thousand, and by 1970 it had risen to 52.3 per thousand; AWOL was so common that by the height of the war one GI went AWOL every three minutes. From January of '67 to January of '72 a total of 354,112 GIs left their posts without permission, and at the time of the signing of the peace accords 98,324 were still missing.

The new air war, and the new resistance
By the early 1970s the government had to begin pulling out of the ground war and switching to an “air war,” in part because many of the ground troops who were supposed to do the fighting were hamstringing the world’s mightiest military force by their sabotage and resistance.

With this shift, the Navy became an important centre of resistance to the war, primarily among crews on Navy attack carriers directly involved in the bombing. While there was dissidence and some political organising among Air Force personnel and in other parts of the Navy, it was where the support crews most directly touched the war that resistance flared. Probably the most dramatic incident occurred aboard the Navy attack carrier USS Coral Sea in the fall of 1971. The Coral Sea was docked in California while it prepared for a tour of bombing duty off the coast of Vietnam. On board was a crew of 4,500 men, a few hundred of whom were pilots, the rest being support crew. A handful of men on the ship began circulating a petition which read in part, "We the people must guide the government and not allow the government to guide us!" .......Their effort to stop the ship failed, and a number of men jumped ship as the Coral Sea left for Vietnam. But the SOS movement spread to other attack carriers, including the USS Hancock and the USS Ranger.

The Navy continued to be racked by political organising and severe racial unrest. Sometimes, black and white sailors would rebel together. The most significant of these took place on board the USS Constellation off Southern California, in November 1972. In response to a threat of less-than-honourable discharges against several black sailors, a group of over 100 black and white sailors staged a day-and-a-half long sit-in. Fearful of losing control of his ship at sea to full-scale mutiny, the ship’s commander brought the Constellation back to San Diego. One hundred and thirty-two sailors were allowed to go ashore. They refused orders to re-board the ship several days later, staging a defiant dockside strike on the morning of November 9. In spite of the seriousness of the rebellion, not one of the sailors involved was arrested.

Sabotage was an extremely useful tactic. On May 26, 1970, the USS Anderson was preparing to steam from San Diego to Vietnam. But someone had dropped nuts, bolts and chains down the main gear shaft. A major breakdown occurred, resulting in thousands of dollars worth of damage and a delay of several weeks. Several sailors were charged, but because of a lack of evidence the case was dismissed. With the escalation of naval involvement in the war the level of sabotage grew.

In June of 1972 the USS Ranger was disabled by sabotage, and in October both the USS Kittyhawk and the USS Hassayampa were swept by fighting. In July, within the space of three weeks, two of the Navy’s aircraft carriers were put out of commission by sabotage. On July 10, a massive fire swept through the Admiral’s quarters and radar centre of the USS Forestall, causing over $7 million in damage. This delayed the ship’s deployment for over two months. In late July, the USS Ranger was docked at Alameda, California. Just days before the ship’s scheduled departure for Vietnam, a paint-scraper and two 12-inch bolts were inserted into the number-four-engine reduction gears causing nearly $1 million in damage and forcing a three-and-a-half month delay in operations for extensive repairs. The sailor charged in the case was acquitted. In other cases, sailors tossed equipment over the sides of ships while at sea.

Though the impact of these actions only slightly impeded the war effort, they helped to maintain a constant pressure on the Administration to withdraw the military from the disaster of the Indochina war.

The history of these olive-drab rebels is largely hidden from us, by rulers who would rather its lessons were forgotten. That the might of the most powerful military on Earth is worth naught if workers refuse to refuse to kill or oppress their fellow workers, and that the only allegiance which benefits us is not to our countries, our Generals, or to our flags, but to our class.

Edited and altered by libcom from two articles, Harass the Brass: Some notes toward the subversion of the US armed forces and The Olive-Drab Rebels: Military Organising During The Vietnam Era by Matthew Rinaldi, both taken from prole.info.

 [ send green star]

===================

Haven't read the article; it says, I have to PAY and SUBSCRIBE to read the article!!!

This was just the FIRST THING that came up when I googled. Not the original source I got. However, I have to be OFF-line for a while! So I will come back later!

Welcome to new members, and I hope we ALL LEARN AND ALL TEACH EACH OTHER SOMETHING!!!!!

B MutinyMutinyMutiny T

 [ send green star]

   Eugene V. Debs

"The Espionage Act of 1917" in U.S. Constitution

http://www.usconstitution.com/EspionageAct.htm

Tussey, Jean Y. Eugene V. Debs: Speaks

Pathfinder Press; Reissue edition, 1994.

============================

St. Patrick's Battalion.Who MUTINIED and went and fought with the MEXICANS in the Mexican-American War. [The "Remember the Alamo!" War] The Irish immigrant soldiers felt more sympathy towards the Mexicans; as BOTH were Catholic in religion; and BOTH were mis-treated and looked down on by the racist "Anglos". The Irish immigrants used to be considered the lowest of the low; on many job sites there was posted, "No Irish Need Apply". {It is the title of a Protest Song made by the Irish laborers at that time.}

Historian Peter F. Stevens: "A lot of these guys deserted because of the anti-Catholic, anti-foreigner movement".

Former Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo called the desertions "an act of conscience" and said that the men of St. Patrick's Battalion "listened to the voice of justice, dignity and honor, and joined Mexican patriots who faced an aggression that lacked any justification".

Quite a DIFFERENT view of U.S. history than that given in films and school textbooks, eh???????

O'Connor, Anne-Marie."Mexico, Ireland Share the Bond of an Ill-fated Army" Los Angeles Times, 16 September 1997

Ryal Miller, Robert. Shamrock and Sword; The St. Patrick's Battalion in the U-S Mexican War; University of Oklahoma Press, 1989 

Acuna, Rodolfo. Occupied America; A History of Chicanos, 5th Edition. Longman, 2003.

Stevens, Peter F. The Rogue's March. Potomac Books, 2005.

===============

Yup, kinda blows one's mind.........

 [ send green star]

Yes, it was during the MEXICAN-AMERICAN WAR that Thoreau wrote his famous essay, "On the Duty of Civil Disobedience", that went on to inspire so many, Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., among others.......

Thoreau, Henry David. On The Duty of Civil Disobedience. Massachusetts, 1849.

{His book Walden came out in 1854.} "The more radical aspects of his lifework have, in many cases, been erased from his standard bio." [50 American Revolutions You're Not Supposed To Know]

"In 1849, Thoreau wrote On The Duty of Civil Disobedience in response to the war of conquest being waged by his country, the Mexican-American War. It was not his only form of anti-war protest. 'The war had barely begun, the summer of 1846, when....Thoreau, who lived in Concord, Massachusetts, refused to pay his poll tax, denouncing the Mexican War', says historian Howard Zinn. 'He was put in jail and spent one night there.'

Against Thoreau's wishes {and behind his back}, his friends paid the tax and secured his freedom. Legend has it that when fellow writer Ralph Waldo Emerson visited Thoreau in jail, he asked, 'Henry, what are you doing in there?' To which Thoreau is said to have replied: 'Ralph, what are you doing out there?'"

THIS INSPIRATIONAL EXAMPLE SHOWS, THAT THE COURAGE FOR MUTINY AND REVOLT, IN LARGE WAYS AND SMALL, IS NOT NECESSARILY CONFINED TO TROOPS IN THE FIELD. THEIR SUPPORTERS CAN TAKE RISKS AND DIS-OBEY AUTHORITY AS WELL. MUTUAL SUPPORT AND MUTUAL INSPIRATION CAN BE BEAUTIFUL!

 [ send green star]

The St. Patrick's Battalion, also known as the "Irish Volunteers", "was essentially forgotten north of the border {except for the San Patricios column that marches in the San Francisco St. Patrick's Day parade each year}. The same cannot be said for Mexico where there is even a San Patricios public school."

"60 per cent of the San Patricios were killed or captured by a numerically superior American army." At their court-martial, part of their defense was, that they deserted because they were drunk!!! playing into racist stereotypes Anglos had of Irish. The Defense knew what it was doing; some were pardoned or received reduced sentences; ONLY 50 were hung. Other punishments were, being given 50 lashes and branded "D" for deserter. "The San Patricios who faced the gallows were hanged in their Mexican uniforms and buried in graves dug by...... the branded prisoners."

Yes, it is always the Army way to QUICKLY GLOSS OVER these embarassing sorts of incidents that SET A BAD, A TERRIBLE, EXAMPLE. Drunk, indeed! Irresponsible children that didn't know what they were doing!

By the way, NOBODY GETS SHOT OR HUNG IN THE U.S. ARMY FOR DESERTION THESE DAYS. THERE IS NO SUCH LAW ON THE BOOKS. The MAXIMUM PENALTY is 5 YEARS IN JAIL. That's ALL. Just thot you'd like to know.

Meanwhile, in Iraq.......

Last week, 1300 Iraqi troops DESERTED. This week, according to Bill Moyers on TV, MORE IRAQI TROOPS DESERTED. I could not find out more, it is not in any of my LOCAL papers, maybe in the NY Times, I haven't had time to look for it.

I AM QUITE CERTAIN, THAT THE BRITISH COMMANDERS AND TROOPS LEFT BASRA EARLIER, BECAUSE THE TROOPS WERE ON THE VERGE OF MUTINY: if not beyond the "verge".

Check out the article from Telegraph.co.uk

The British in the more benign south developed a strategy of "transition", in which regions under their control were handed back to the Iraqi government once its police and army were capable of upholding a form of law and order.

It was no small under-taking but the process initially worked well, albeit at a price.

Bloody and prolonged battles were fought in Maysan Province and most notably in the town of Al-Amarah, and many British troops were killed and maimed.

As the British gradually handed back provinces to Iraqi control, the number of insurgent attacks against them increased.

By the early summer of 2007, British troops in Basra, the last area under British control, were being attacked hourly.

Every convoy which went into the city was forced to run a gauntlet of attacks, from improvised explosive devices, rockets and snipers.

British morale began to suffer as troops were forced to confront a deadly enemy indistinguishable form the local civilians. It was almost impossible to fight back. The military initiative now favoured the insurgents.

By the middle of August, British troops had become embroiled in the most sustained fighting in the south since the war began five years earlier.

Even General Sir Richard Dannatt, the head of the Army, acknowledged that the British troops had "become part of the problem".

In the last few weeks of UK's presence in Basra, British troops were being killed at the rate of one every three days. The situation simply could not continue and the British eventually pulled out.

Senior officers declared that it was neither a retreat or a withdrawal but that it was part of the strategy of transition, which had been set in motion several years earlier. It was now time for the Iraqi security forces to face down the militias.

While British commanders had some confidence in the Army, the police, which had been infiltrated by the various militia death squads, were largely regarded as a liability.

With the absence of the British military in Basra, the militias grew even more powerful. The murder rate soared and women were targeted by Shia fundamentalist death squads.

By the end of March, a full scale uprising was under way and when the Iraqi Army tried to quash the insurgents they were found wanting. Hundreds of poorly trained soldiers deserted and the ill-advised assault into Basra turned into a farce.

In a face-saving measure, the Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki agreed a ceasefire with the insurgents. It was clear to the British commanders that the Iraqi Army could not cope on their own.

Under American pressure, British troops were back in to Basra to "assist" the Iraqi Army - a move which brought to an end Gordon Brown's plans for a spring troop cut.

============

"Not a retreat or withdrawal" -- uh huh.

 [ send green star]

Now, the Army doesn't like to use the word, "Mutiny", in reference to its OWN troops.

The word they use NOWADAYS, is, "Combat Refusal".

There is an awful lot of that going on in Iraq, according to Veterans returning from Iraq that I have spoken with. And things I have read that managed to escape the censorship.

Some of it is "informal", just going "out on patrol" and having an arrangement with the locals that we won't shoot at you, if you won't shoot at us. We'll leave you be and you leave us alone. And everybody's happy. For a while. {The small boys who run errands in Iraq serve as "liason officers" between the Insurgents and the illegally Occupying Army of Americans. To carry messages and keep things cool and understood between them.}

On the other hand, there have been significant and open acts of Resistance by Americans, both by individuals, and by groups. Obviously, it is better and probably much safer to resist as a UNIT. TO MY KNOWLEDGE {it was in the papers at the time}, the 343rd QUARTERMASTERS and the 10th MOUNTAIN DIVISION, have REFUSED ORDERS. The 10th Mountain Division, after having suffered heavy casualties, DID AN ACTUAL, OPEN, "COMBAT REFUSAL", i.e., a MUTINY. I do not know what eventually became of them.

The present Military is MUCH MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE about PUBLICITY, than during the Viet Nam War, when there was an OPEN "COMBAT REFUSAL" BY A UNIT ORDERED INTO BATTLE RIGHT IN FRONT OF NBC TELEVISION CAMERAS...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [And that surely served their grandstanding fame-and-glory-seeking Commanding Officer RIGHT........!] [This is found in Col. Heidl's book on Viet Nam referenced above.]

The military has attempted to take over and censor the Internet for the troops, not just to keep the FAMILIES and press and peace movement and everyone else from knowing what is REALLY going on........ but, TO KEEP THE TROOPS THEMSELVES FROM KNOWING WHAT IS GOING ON IN OTHER PARTS OF THE AMERICAN-OCCUPIED TERRITORY.

But, every once in a while, something does get out.

JUST THINK, if ALL THE SMALL MUTINIES, were to join and SPREAD THEIR LIGHT INTO ONE BIG ALMIGHTY CONFLAGRATION.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't be bamboozled by "Combat Refusal" or any other NEW words they might come up with to gloss over the TRUTH of the matter.............

 [ send green star]