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8 years ago
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Let's get some ideas up for petitions and decide which laws need re-writting or simply are too weak.
8 years ago

Mayhaps a petition for stiffer laws protecting victims/survivors of domestic abuse. Of course this would be a state by state fight.

Or simply more stiff laws keeping violent offenders off the street.

These are hard to change laws. Seems to me, the guilty are protected more then the innocent.

8 years ago

They are more protected than the victim.I like your ideas,I had the same idea as you.Maybe we could work on federal laws?At least we wouldn't have to go state by state?

8 years ago

Although the laws should be more equitable this is true, but it seems to me that if the front line enforcers were trained by requirement to be educated on the fall out for any type of abuse, even pet and other animal abuse, child abuse, woman abuse, gay abuse, racial, economical  actually ANY abuse--we might foster a more equitable first line of help.  Am I off the mark here.  I'm not talking a sensitivity class given after the facts, but a required social science semster or two along with a short internship with a DHS social worker or others of those who see the results of these crimes on entire families and neighborhoods etc.

Just some random thinking.

8 years ago
Mare,this is good too! I never thought of that!
8 years ago

Mary, that is a great point.

The unifying of training of our authorities is paramount. We are still faced with the old school opinions that domestic situations are different then regular assault or abuse..we know that is BS. Education is the most important part of even a police officers growth in their job. But we are still at odds with some that still have that old school attitude and belief.

Federal level does not come into play when it is a state by state law situation.



8 years ago
ok,checkit.How about a victim's rights addiumthat disallows the right of a non-convicted,accused (man or woman)to attend the funeral of the person they murdered.Family or not?
8 years ago
That sounds like a good one. 
8 years ago
sounds great to me.
8 years ago
So ,ok then.Who knows how to write a petition?I'v signed plenty,but how is it written and to whom? I'v got one more idea to go with it.New laws are often named after a child or adult victim.Can we designat it after Robert's granddaughter?So she can live on and never be forgot publicly?Sorta our gift to Robert and family?What does everyone think?Robert was one of the first members here.And as he means so much to all of us.......
8 years ago
I ment to ask nicely but I was out of room.So please , will you vote?As a group we should be one mind.One soul.One heart.Please?
8 years ago
Education And Civil Rights
8 years ago

I like the Education Ideas And that is something that could be mandated by federal law and enforced by withholding Federal Law Grants and adding educational Funding to Law  Enforcement Budgets.

However NO MORE Laws that take away the Rights of the Accused.! This Country is fast Turning into a police State! What about Innoccent untill proven Guilty There are WAY Too many people willing to Give up those rights to satisify Thier Special interests!

Anyone knows that The first Suspect is the partner so Why should an Innocent person Be Dissalowed Access to thier Partners funeral Just Because Lazy Law enforcement Jumps them with out a proper investigation?

There are other ways of Dealing with these issues if there is a history of Abuse or a Friend or Family member has A Reason to Fear the person then they Can Get a Restraining order to prevent contact ; yes I know restrainging orders don't always work but in the instance of a Funeral you Can have a police escort, a media presence and a Crowd of mourners to assist in enforcing the order.

We need to Think of how to use The Laws that are allready on the books And teach potential victims how to protect themselves instead of Takeing away more freedoms and further Corrupting the bill of Rights and our Justice System. 

It all sounds good untill some one you know or you ARE Falsely Accused; We All Know that Innocent poor go to jail and Rich Guilty Walk.

 Lets fix the System instead of making things worse! ! 

8 years ago
Jakki, I vote yes. I really like Robert a lot. I feel so bad for him. I think this is a wonderful idea.
8 years ago

Hey guys, sorry to be jumping in so late.

I like a lot of the ideas being thrown around in here.  Most particularly, the one for Robert's granddaughter.  He has expressed a sincere interest in becoming very proactive in being a catalyst for change -- unfortunately (for obvious reasons), he is pretty spiritually exhausted right now.

As soon as he feels up to it, I think this would be a perfect catharsis for his pain.  And, in fact, I recently spoke to another member here who lost a 5-year-old daughter to the same type of violence . . . she too, is considering becoming involved.

Good on you!

8 years ago

Well - I would like to add something to this.  My husband was murdered, and although I was not the direct victim of the crime, it has been the worst experience I ahve ever been through.  To say that I have been experiencing PTSD would be an understatement.  Being a survivor of a loved who died by homicide is hideous. And my husband was killed out of the country.  We had to have him shipped back here to be buried in the US.  He had only had his citizenship for 6 months.

There should be counseling available for those who have had to go through this.  There are some programs, but it is not always easy to track them down.  If something is mentioned about this idea in a petition, it needs to be mentioned without my name, for many reasons. But I wanted to put a real person behind this for the group members.  This almost led to the end of the road for me.

8 years ago

Thank you so much for sharing that; I know it must be gut-wrenching.

Of course, your anonymity will be protected.  You, of all people, can use your painful experience to give guidance to others as to how best handle the grieving period of loved ones left behind . . . the "extended victims."

Bless you.

Brain Storm thoughts
8 years ago
I have been in social work, a victim's rights advocate, run a County Attorney's campaign (he's still in), had some paralegal training, been a victim of various abuse, political activist since the late 1960's, help get Utah's 1st Children's Justice Center up and running, lobbied and addressed State Legislative Committees, spoken on television, debated on television, had extensive training including from DCFS, therapists, lawyers, doctors, police, County Attorney's, defense and prosecuting attorneys, and the FBI. I also sat on the Citizen's Foster Care Review Board forone year and had their training. From this perspective, I support the following points already made, directly or indirectly: 1) Most laws addressing abuse and violent crime, etc. are relegated to the States, except when the crime crossed State lines,for example. That is one reason why prison/jailterm lengths for any given crime vary tremendously fromState to State, for example. It would be nice if we could recruit at least one member from every State--but also, the membership here is international, and we can't forget that input. 2) It is very true that more often than not, laws that are already "on the books" are NOT being enforced! Every government agency that deals with crime is usually overloaded with cases, understaffed, and underpaid. Work in this area has a high burnout rate,so there tends to be a lot of turnover, plus the laws and proceedures change constantly, so a lot of time is spent in meetings, a sorry, but necessary use of time. 3) Petitions can help put pressure on, but some Congressmen have a policy against accepting them, muchless reading them. The greatest power and attention-getter in Congress, (other than the voting booth) is a personal letter or phone call! Second, an individual e-mail. Third is to team up with a related existing Organization--for example, in Child Abuse issues here, our greatest asset was teaming up with the Parent/Teachers Association (PTA). They have huge membership and carry a lot of weight. If possible, be a member of a related organization and/or donate. Even a small donation x many people can make a huge difference in getting laws made or changed. 4)While we "vote" I think it would be valuable for future reference, to take a voluntary anonymous poll of the members as to what specific crimes (whether involving police, court action or not) each has been effected by personally or in their family. Also cases of animal abuse neglect, the worst Zoos, etc. Thank you from "Big Mouth". I feel too new to vote, but I agree education of any kind on these issues, from any country is a vital part of building a good foundation in this group.
8 years ago
Cynthia S.
That's exactly what I do want.A voice of experience!
Cynthia, Rod, et al.
8 years ago


Cynthia, I can already see that there are some differences of opinion within the group as to certain issues. 

I'll be right up front about one of them -- accuseds' rights.  We live in a country where people are assumed innocent until "proven" guilty.  I would strongly disagree with backing any proposed legislation which denied a "legally" innocent person of his/her rights.

That said, though, while it is good for each of us to present our viewpoints, I feel we should put some type of time limit on the discussion, to avoid an overly protracted, potentially redundant, and time-consuming debate.

At that point, I feel Cynthia's suggestion about a poll is perfect.  Provided, as I said, that members have had an opportunity to educate themselves on the merits of all sides of the issue.


This is a profound goal!
8 years ago

It would take at least one person per state to become a member of an applical group to make this easier. Say one on domestic abuse, on on victims rights group, etc.

I suggest another membership to this group drive, Jakki. We will need a large base. 

8 years ago
I agree! SO lets do it!
Survivors of vicitms of vilent death
8 years ago
Elizabeth, I know how you feel. A few years ago I was able to take a continuing education offering on "Counseling Survivors of Victims of violent death." You are correct, there are not enough resources available for people like you who are put into this position. I am afraid that to enact the legislation which we need, people will need to admit to the problem which, I fear, they are loathe to do. I hope that this group might be of help to you.
John D.
Brain storm thoughts
8 years ago
Cynthia, I would like to add that my experience with PFAs is that they aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Too many law enforcement officers downplay the plaintiff's concerns. Sometimes it seems that not a month goes by without some news report of someone being murdered even though they had a PFA in effect.

John D.
Defending the victim BEFORE the Crime
8 years ago

I Feel that Thier should be more done to Educate potential Victims on Self defense.

 Ayone obtaining a Restraining order Should be Exempt from Weapons waiting periods and Given a Dedicated 911 Cell with an alarm wrist thong pull trigger As well as a loan of whatever weapons and training If They can show Financial need.

 To many women stay in abusive relationships Because they Can't afford to move out much less pay for Self defense and Weapons But without them They are Just Sitting Ducks.

 The Cell phone might Be a detterent But any Self defense Trainer that knows the laws and the attitudes of law enforcement will tell you the first reporter will get the benifit of doubt Even if they are Standing over the body of thier attacker! !

 Just remember to unload and lower your weapon when help arrives and don't run up on them Sit down and have a good Cry or puke Whatever you need to get past the Shock!

Head down and hands in front helps with shock and also puts you in a non threatening position so the officer can approach comfortably. These are just examples of the types of Proactive Victims Protections that Could be a combination of Private instruction; New Laws And something Positive to do with all those guns they confiscate! 

This post was modified from its original form on 25 Jun, 1:34
Further response--
8 years ago
1) I am not sure what is meant by a PFA--if it is like a "no-contact order" (which is all my daughter got) or a "restraining order"--it is correct that if a crazy or very determined attacker is after you, these won't really help PROTECT you; they are only good if they catch the guy breaking it, which lands him immediately in jail, but by then, it is often too late. It can also sometimes give a victim a false sense of security, and the police and Co. Atty.or D.A. a feeling they have "done their job", at least until further notice (irony intentional). 2) A lot of States, including California and Utah try to provide trained volunteer assistance: for children, CASA workers, who should be there and advocate for the needs of the child from beginning through the end, as well as a guardian ad leitem, whoisa lawyer who is supposed to represent the best needs of the child, legally. But again, I've already talked to families on Care 2 who have had corrupt or prejudiced GALs. Nevertheless, the ones I've worked with here have been great. Ideally there should be someone assigned to the victim, child or adult, or family from either the Prosecutor's or Social Services. They do things like act as an intermediary between the vic. and the court/case; ascertain any special needs, make sure that the accused has NO access, not even in sight of the vic. at the courthouse or parking lot. I was able to get escorted to and from the courtroom to my car by a sheriff, who also arranged for me to sit right by the bailiff in court when not testifying (I wasnot the defendant in the case, but testifying as a court-appointed supervisor of visitation. 3) Even if some States or places can only get onemember, itwould be a great start, and they could help recruit . We can't do more than one or two things to start with--the poll should be anonymous and include the crime, a few general things than just "murder", for example, and the State, Province or Country could be polled separately,so no one can figure out who it is. 4) Laws and other info isn't that hard to get since we have search engines, and can alsoe-mail letters of enquiry for a "research project"--let them assume itis a student, don't put Mr. or Mrs.with your name! Definitely do not be political in enquiry letters orlabel yourself as a rights advocate, etc. I will volunteer to start tomorrow to research what kinds of advocacy groups exist nationally. We don't need to "go over land that has already been ploughed!" (I said that, and I'm a city girl!) lol
Part 2
8 years ago
btw-forgive me, I have a space bar that sticks! On the gun for someone in danger, I can only emphasize that a person who has not had good gun training and practice, who is frightened, nervous, and especially has children in the house, even if just for visits,is the LAST person you want with a gun. We see too many stories of children finding a gun and bullets. already-loaded gun, or a teenager sneaking in late or husband who was out of the room, get shot by mistake!! Also, never have any toy guns in the house that are anywhere near realistic looking (in the dark,or from a distance). I hate to be anti-NRA, but that waiting periods is there for a reason--I do not wish to debate this,so just take it as something to think about: many statistics showagun or guns inthe house aremore likely to end up used by the perpetrator than the victim, exceptin cases of extensive training and practice. On this note, I must get to bed--thank heavens for my two miniature attack schnauzers!
8 years ago
We do need better gun safty rules,and we do need better training for our officers.I see so may good ideas,So where to start?
here there is a victim help program
8 years ago

As a newly hatched member who has been reading some of the messages I realize that where I live right now, in the Netherlands, there is a nationa/local structure of what the dutch call Slachtofferhelp which means VIctim Help. If someone is in an accident the police let the organization know that there are people who may need help. My husband had a car accident where he left the road and was trapped in his car. I was called by one of these volunteers working for victim help and I realized while talking how shaken up I had been by what had happened to him.

This victim help organization has advisors/cunsultants who are paid by the government to provide the structure and advice and give training to the volunteers who are there to call or go in person to help those who directly or indirectly feel victimized. They recruit volunteers and train them to be able to provide assistance, deal with the emotional side of the problems, etc.

They can help victims get legal assistance and can help write letters, get assistance, get representation, get knowledge about the law, get mental and physical help.

The dutch are into starting clubs to deal with problems. Don't know if this is an idea you can use. It is something I could get specific info for you if you would like it. A friend of mine did this work for years and she helped a lot of people.

It is what rose in my brain when I was reading. It is essential that anyone who has been tramatized knows that they are not alone. That across on the other side of the world there is someone thinking about them and holding out a hand. You are not alone. You are never alone. I am hear. If you want to talk, I will listen.

Holly T

8 years ago

Thanks Cynthia...for sharing your knowledge and wisdom.  You said some things that made sense and some things I did not know.....


8 years ago
 Protection from Abuse (PFA) Order 
8 years ago

It took 50 years of underfunded schools, and a barrage of conflicting blurts issued by priests, peddlers, and presidents to stop children from attempting to think.

Violence Prevention : Every Satuday, the National Media ( Owned by Military Contractors needing Warm Bodies for their army ) , present ZAP-POOF, Slam, Bang Bang, ninja power pokemon ranger solutions, for children to emulate.

With no experience in the real world, children can not see how near of far the Cartoon is from real world needs.

Like all mammals, Human Children are DESIGNED to observe and COPY their surviving, successful parents, and to BELIEVE them, and to COPY their actions and activities, so that they to can find water in a barren desert, and find food under the ice of frozen tundra.

Unfortunately, Children will also BELIEVE and COPY what parents TELL them using MERE WORDS. And WORDS are NOT TRUTH.

The CONFLICT between the LIES of WORDS and the KNOWLEDGE of TRUTH creates the FRUSTRATION that leads to VIOLENCE against the nearest source of the conflict.

Simple Example:

Marriage is an invention constructed of words.

But Humans, Love and Reproduction are NOT fabricated of words.

This post was modified from its original form on 28 Jun, 20:31
To Hosts/Members re: Poll
8 years ago
Shall we start it? Idon't know how to do it anonymously. Where people are from should be obtainable from people'spages/member list. Maybe the crime list could be anonymous( just to Host only). I'll get the national victims' rights groups, as well as any international & Care 2 posted in the next week!
8 years ago
Yes and cool Cynthia! LOVE your energy!!
8 years ago

I am just starting to get regular daily digests...but if I can do anything, like research....if some one takes lead in this, I will be glad to contribute where needed...for Robert and his granddaughter.  Please let me know.


8 years ago

Speaking from experience, having worked with the Sheriff's Office and being a ranking black belt instructor, a gun can be your best friend or your worst enemy. Most attacks are by surprise and if the gun is not on your person at the time of the attack, what good is it, even with the best training. Most people keep a gun in a drawer or closet and if the assailant is between you and the gun, it is now your enemy. I know of many cases where victims were shot with their own guns!!

I am surely not against guns for protection, but like I stated in previous posts, I believe in self defense courses for protection, as well as a weapon. My daughter and sister have both been attacked in the past (both know martial arts taught by me) and they are survivors because they did not hesitate to use it. Unfortunately, in neither case was there an arrest, but in both cases, the perpetrators became the victims.....never underestimate anyone!!

I feel the bottom line to get some resolution, is tougher laws and enforcing the old ones. I have known many women in my life that have been in abusive relationships and I have even gone as far as hospitalizing 2 of these worthless excuses for men, for what they did to these women. Now please do not misunderstand me...I am not a violent person, but I will not sit back and watch a man beat a woman, as dangerous of a position that I place myself in by doing so!!

Hi all
8 years ago
just throught,I'ed stop in and say hi to all groups and was reading this one lets what laws,I say all of them pfas are not safe and they dont keep weman safe yes thats one but,I feel the court laws to because when some one dont get the time they want they can change there pleas so everyone wants to make out a petition how about this one to keep all the weman and children and animals safe from all the animals out there that think its alright to hurt them and,I'll tell you what some one come up with a name because,I'am having troulbe with that one and send it to me ,I will make up the petition because,I am so sick and tiered of these animals that wont to hurt other people and think they can get a way with it count me in my friends,I'am back and firered up