Meat production has increased by 500 percent since 1950. Today, most animals are raised on industrial “factory farms” that are displacing sustainable family farms. Thousands of animals are crowded in unsanitary conditions, spending their entire lives indoors without sunlight or pasture. To prevent disease from these inhumane practices, antibiotics are added to feed, contributing to the worldwide growth of antibiotic resistant bacteria. Vast amounts of manure pollute rivers and streams, causing toxic pollution of air and water and endangering human health.
Community opposition has prompted corporations to move their mega-farms to developing countries where environmental regulations are less strict. Because the time to ship from farm to store takes longer, industry “nukes” our meat with irradiation—prolonging “shelf-life”—despite evidence that irradiation is unsafe and dangerous. One day soon, you may find that your hamburger was raised half way around the world, irradiated, and flown thousands of miles before landing on your dinner plate.
Global meat consumption is expected to grow 2 percent each year until 2015, especially in developing countries where eating meat is seen as a sign of wealth and prosperity. Half of the world's pork is now eaten in China, while Brazil is the second largest consumer of beef, after the United States.
Forty-three percent of the world's beef is raised on factory feedlots, and more than half of the world's pork and poultry is raised on factory farms.
Animals raised in feedlots accumulate Omega 6 fatty acids (the bad fats), which have been linked with cancer, diabetes, obesity, and immune disorders.
Belching, flatulent livestock emit 16 percent of the world's annual production of methane, a powerful greenhouse gas.
In 1995, 25 million gallons of hog waste spilled from an 8-acre lagoon into a river in the United States, killing 10 million fish.
An estimated 70 percent of all antibiotics in the U.S. are fed to pigs, poultry, and cattle merely to promote growth and compensate for the unsanitary and confined conditions on factory farms. By volume, livestock in the country consume eight times more antibiotics than humans do.
With its high meat content, the average U.S. diet requires twice as much water per person per day as an equally nutritious vegetarian diet. A meat-rich meal made with imported ingredients also emits nine times as much carbon as a vegetarian meal made with domestic ingredients that don't have to be hauled long distances.
A diet high in grain-fed meat can require two to four times more land than a vegetarian diet.
A study in 2002 found that 37 percent of the broiler chickens found in major grocery stores are contaminated with antibiotic-resistant pathogens.
Since it was first reported in the United Kingdom in 1986, BSE (mad cow disease) has been detected in 33 countries, and health officials estimate that 139 people worldwide have succumbed to variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, a related illness in humans.
Sustainable farming, a method of farming that is good for animals, people, and the environment, has grown into a $15.6 billion business worldwide.
Local communities are organizing to oppose factory farms—and winning! Manitowoc County, in the U.S. state of Wisconsin, prevented a 5,000 head feedlot from locating in a residential area; residents of Saskatchewan, Canada, kept out six hog confinement buildings; and Klamath County in Oregon successfully prevented the construction of an 11,000-head hog factory.
Sow gestation stalls/crates on factory farms, which are so narrow that pregnant pigs cannot turn around, are now banned in the United Kingdom and Sweden, and will be illegal in the European Union in 2013.
More and more people—including some 150 million people in Europe alone—are either becoming vegetarians or reducing their consumption of meat.
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/1495
It's about time, don't you think?
Love & Peace
He said that the one under the top would eat the top one's poo and the bottom one would eat the middle one's poo... they all get big and fat with the price of feeding only one*gag*
I should add that I used to be vegetarian, and I'm tempted to become one again, reading this, but I can't because I need more protein. That is why I had to become an omnivore again. So organic meat is the next best thing - when I have time and money to buy it.
What is YOUR story on meat eating? Do you?
Hi Dynamite and Rachel, thanks for commenting on this issue. Great point Freddie, about the amount of land needed for gardening compared to feeding livestock.
It's very sadistic the way animals are treated in the world today. Most people are as oblivious to the way their meat finds its way to the kitchen table as they are about our young men and women enduring the immediate trauma of an unjustified war in the name of corporate greed.
When I was about 6 or 7, I followed my grandpa out to his back yard where he kept pens for rabbits and a chicken coop. I used to think my grandpa was mean because he always told me to go back to the house. He never wanted me to see him wring a chicken's neck or kill a bunny for rabbit stew.
One day my cousin and I sneaked back while he was in the middle of murdering a chicken and I was absolutely horrified when I discovered that my cousin was telling the truth...the chicken runs around for a time, even without its head!
I asked my mother why he had to do that to them and was not pleased to learn that I was eating them in grandma's stews. When I found out that she cooked the bunnies as well, I promptly quit eating dinners at my grandparents. I lived on peanut butter sandwiches, and cookies when visiting them.
I didn't know that bologna and sausage came from pigs and hamburgers and steak came from cows until later...and I think because I didn't know any of these animals personally...I wasn't as concerned.
Not actually seeing them die made me indifferent.
I was a cannibal for (we're ALL animals) all of my life up until now. At certain points, when I heard about the horrible things that happened in a slaughterhouse, I always thought that I should quit. I really did cut down, and even though I hardly ever ate steak and roasts...I had a hard time giving up ham, pepperoni and ground beef.
One day, (it will be two years in September)...while at this Care2 site, which I love dearly, because I've learned SOOO much from everyone here, I came across a site where they had dogs packed in cages on top of cages. I started to read out of curiosity and them came to the pictures of men skinning dogs alive! It seems that they think that the fear of the animal makes the meat taste better. How hideous is that?
All that I could do was cry. My beloved Collie, Zen immediately came over to me...wondering why I was crying, he nudged me and showed concern. That was all that it took for me to never eat meat again. I sat there wondering how often I've unknowingly been fed cat or dog...or even horse! I remembered reading that pigs are just as smart as dogs...if not smarter and that did it for the ham and pepperoni. (the hardest to give up because I love pizza!)
But I did it, I stopped being the 'ALMOST VEGETARIAN' and actually became a realized spirit not cannibalizing my fellow spirit souls! The cycle has stopped! Now I can honestly ascend to a higher level of awareness.
Thanks to my Zen dog...if it wasn't for his constant show of gentle love and devotion, I wouldn't have had a clue what it was about. He has never bit or attacked anyone...well, he nipped at the heels of a jogger who was running (evidently aggressively) toward my daughter and granddaughter on the River Road where we take our walks. But that was the only time, and he was just protecting his family. He's very good at alerting us to unknown visitors, too.
He is just the most excellent of spirits in the body of a dog. I'm so lucky to have him as a friend. He's NUTZ about hand outs...sort of like a sannyasa...
Vegetarian Forever!
Love & Peace
It's O.K. Pam, no one should hate you. But if you learn about karma...you'll understand why it might be important to stop the cycle of carnivore. We are in a conditioned world, just because so many people eat meat...does not mean it's right.
But we all come to the point at some time in our many experiences, to know what's wrong...and right in our actions. The Great Spirit in our hearts allows us to make our own choices in life, and eventually we will hear the whisper of reason.
Love & Peace to All Life
Mata, what a coincidence. I was going to post my childhood story, on the vegetarian website, but a voice told me to come here.
When I was 6 years old, out of necessity my grandparents asked my aunts to bring me home for awhile. I knew intuitively that they were planning to kill my pet rabbits and chickens. I managed to escape from my aunts place to witness the person they hired to chop the head off one of my chickens.
A week ago I sobbed uncontrollably when I recalled the memory. It traumatized me. The decision to become a vegetarian was easy and the results were so swift that I think the trauma was what caused the lifelong battle with my diet.
Now I am healthy and recovering nicely. Shedding the tears was the true beginning of my journey to heal from that trauma.
I could never hate anyone, meat eaters or not. It has never been a part of my life. God created us with Love. We were blessed with the capacity to love ourselves and others. It is a true gift to give and recieve love.
Peace & Love
Virginia
I'm happy for your success, Virginia! 
Here's to your health! 
(That's rootbeer, by the way! )
Thanks for sharing your story!
Love & Peace
If we can see with the vision that all creatures are none different than our self then we will be more reluctant to cause harm to those creatures. Krishna says
Chapter 5.
TEXT 18
vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah
SYNONYMS
vidya--education; vinaya--gentleness; sampanne--fully equipped; brahmane--in the brahmana; gavi--in the cow; hastini--in the elephant; suni--in the dog; ca--and; eva--certainly; sva-pake--in the dog-eater (the outcaste); ca--respectively; panditah--those who are so wise; sama-darsinah--do see with equal vision.
TRANSLATION
The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste].
PURPORT
A Krsna conscious person does not make any distinction between species or castes. The brahmana and the outcaste may be different from the social point of view, or a dog, a cow, or an elephant may be different from the point of view of species, but these differences of body are meaningless from the viewpoint of a learned transcendentalist. This is due to their relationship to the Supreme, for the Supreme Lord, by His plenary portion as Paramatma, is present in everyone's heart. Such an understanding of the Supreme is real knowledge. As far as the bodies are concerned in different castes or different species of life, the Lord is equally kind to everyone because He treats every living being as a friend yet maintains Himself as Paramatma regardless of the circumstances of the living entities. The Lord as Paramatma is present both in the outcaste and in the brahmana, although the body of a brahmana and that of an outcaste are not the same. The bodies are material productions of different modes of material nature, but the soul and the Supersoul within the body are of the same spiritual quality. The similarity in the quality of the soul and the Supersoul, however, does not make them equal in quantity, for the individual soul is present only in that particular body whereas the Paramatma is present in each and every body. A Krsna conscious person has full knowledge of this, and therefore he is truly learned and has equal vision. The similar characteristics of the soul and Supersoul are that they are both conscious, eternal and blissful. But the difference is that the individual soul is conscious within the limited jurisdiction of the body, whereas the Supersoul is conscious of all bodies. The Supersoul is present in all bodies without distinction.
TEXT 4
sarva-yonisu kaunteya
murtayah sambhavanti yah
tasam brahma mahad yonir
aham bija-pradah pita
SYNONYMS
sarva-yonisu--in all species of life; kaunteya--O son of Kunti; murtayah--forms; sambhavanti--as they appear; yah--which; tasam--all of them; brahma--supreme; mahat yonih--the source of birth in the material substance; aham--Myself; bija-pradah--seed-giving; pita--father. TRANSLATION
It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kunti, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father. PURPORT
In this verse it is clearly explained that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, is the original father of all living entities. The living entities are combinations of the material nature and the spiritual nature. Such living entities are seen not only on this planet, but in every planet, even in the highest, where Brahma is situated. Everywhere there are living entities; within the earth there are living entities, even within water and within fire. All these appearances are due to the mother, material nature, and Krsna's seed-giving process. The purport is that the living entities, being impregnated in the material world, come out and form at the time of creation according to their past deeds.
Thank you, Mahabala.
I wish EVERYONE would read the Bhagavad Gita (The Song of the Spirit God) and finally begin to understand the meaning of the soul!
People get so bogged down when reading the Bible (The Word of God) with all the different Chapters that were compiled by so many different men who were either prophets or just inspired by God. Whereas, the B'Gita was from Krsna alone. The purport, or translation leaves very little to misunderstand.
I loved the fact that someone was said to have posted from the Old Testament in the Book of Micah (I named my oldest son Micah, my newest son Matthew.) about sacrifice.
Micah 6th Chapter, 6 Verse: Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, [and] bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, [or] with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn [for] my transgression, the fruit of my body [for] the sin of my soul?
6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is] good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
That pretty much says it about what God really wants, doesn't it?
Love & Peace
This post was modified from its original form on 09 May, 10:07
3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.Genesis 9:3-5
41 " 'Every creature that moves about on the ground is detestable; it is not to be eaten. 42 You are not to eat any creature that moves about on the ground, whether it moves on its belly or walks on all fours or on many feet; it is detestable. 43 Do not defile yourselves by any of these creatures. Do not make yourselves unclean by means of them or be made unclean by them. 44 I am the LORD your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves about on the ground. 45 I am the LORD who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore be holy, because I am holy.
46 " 'These are the regulations concerning animals, birds, every living thing that moves in the water and every creature that moves about on the ground. 47 You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean, between living creatures that may be eaten and those that may not be eaten.' "Leviticus 11.41-47
Isaiah 1:11-14
11 "The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?" says the LORD.
"I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
well, i'm not really vegan, but am getting there.
(it's sort of complicated when you live and have to share with meat-lovers, groan...)
and, about rootbeer - what is it really made of, anyway? i tasted it once but didn't really like it...i guess i'll carry on with my alcohol free peach beer!
Belief-wise, I'm actually torn between a shamanistic/animistic belief and a bhuddist belief - on the one hand I believe that if you speak to the spirit of an animal, show it respect and give it dignity, it's fine to eat the meat of that animal - but not to just eat the meat. No part of that animal should be wasted, even if it's ground up and used as fertiliser. On the other hand, I find the idea of killing an animal abhorrent, and I can't personally do it - which to me means that I don't have the right to eat the meat.
My partner eats meat, but only organic meat, preferably from local farmer's markets. If it were possible to buy meat where the animal is guaranteed to have been killed with diginity and respect, she'd buy that - but at least with organic you know it's had a reasonably good life.
Eating meat provides the body with a density and kind of protein which is much more efficient at building muscle than vegetable based proteins. A study conducted over here on a number of previously vegetarian female athletes showed that those who ate meat every meal for a month gave much better performances than their colleagues who stayed vegetarian.
I think the reasoning behind why people do, or do not eat meat, is an intensely personal thing. What I do believe, however, is that children should be given the tools to make that choice an informed one - take them to different kinds of farm, show them the conditions, take them to an abattoir - let them see how the meat gets to their tables. Raise the next generation to be grateful for their food again, instead of just taking it for granted without knowing where it comes from.
Namaste
Rosa, Root beer is made from the Sarsaparilla root or Birch bark, it's like a soda, or soft drink.
Emma, they say that you are what you eat...I was gaining weight, from eating little piggies and big, old moo cows...just think of all the nasty chemicals that factory farming is putting into the animals to keep them from getting diseases in the unsanitary conditions, in which they're kept...cutting chickens beaks off and other kinds of hideous things. 
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I consider animals 'others' too!
I'm like you, I could never kill an animal...and once my eyes were opened and I truly understood what I was doing...I knew that it was wrong, so I stopped. I do not need to eat the meat from other animals to live, there are plants. And as far as the athlete...there ARE plants that have a boost effect if that's needed for competitions. Besides, they've found that the mind, and visualizing the winning outcome has much more to do with an athletes success.
Love & Peace
"I believe that if you speak to the spirit of an animal, show it respect and give it dignity, it's fine to eat the meat of that animal - but not to just eat the meat. No part of that animal should be wasted, even if it's ground up and used as fertiliser. On the other hand, I find the idea of killing an animal abhorrent, and I can't personally do it - which to me means that I don't have the right to eat the meat.
My partner eats meat, but only organic meat, preferably from local farmer's markets. If it were possible to buy meat where the animal is guaranteed to have been killed with diginity and respect, she'd buy that - but at least with organic you know it's had a reasonably good life."
What I mean by this is that I don't have anything against people eating meat, provided that the animal has lived a good, enjoyable life and has been killed in as quick, painless and dignified a manner as possible. Also I prefer it if those that eat meat are fully aware of where it came from and would be willing and able to kill their own if necessary - I hate that so many people will happily eat meat but can't bear to think that it comes from an animal - far better to be fully aware of where it comes from and give thanks to that animal.
I gave the athlete example to show that there can be health benefits to eating meat in certain situations because of the effect that it has on our muscles. Since I don't lead the kind of lifestyle anymore where I'm likely to be putting a huge strain on my muscles, I can happily make do with pulses, beans, mycoprotein, eggs and dairy products. But for someone such as a professional footballer, eating meat can be hugely beneficial, especially in helping to improve strength, stamina and resistance to e.g. muscle tears. I think it has to be a personal choice, but as I said before, we have to make sure that when people make that choice, it's an informed one.
Given the chance I would raze all factory farms to the ground.
Have you heard about the cow lady in the States? Temple Grandin - she goes round abattoirs making improvements so that the cows die calmly, which on the one hand seems so wrong but on the other hand it's a step in the right direction... this is such a controversial subject!
Mata & Mahabala,
You have booth inspired me. I got a copy of the Bhagavad Gita. I'm not sure I understand it yet. But, I'm trying too anyway. I love to understand why people believe what they do. Who knows, maybe you'll change my mine.
Bright Blessings, Pam
Pamela, I don't think that you'll be disappointed, it's really a wonderful book of scriptures...it means the Song of the Spirit God, defining the spirit, explaining reincarnation, telling the importance of worshipping God, first and foremost, yet explaining the wide array of deities, and brings into mind the planetary system and that there are different lifeforms that can't be seen.
There are species of creatures here on Earth that man has never seen before. I should show you some of the deep sea creatures that washed up on the Asiatic shore after the Tsunami struck.
The Bhagavad Gita says that animals that become extinct here go to another planet. Also...and this is for you Emma. Animals that are killed for food, will automatically become human in their next existence. Like an evolutionary leap. So isn't that a wonderful thought...but still, of course...it doesn't mean that each individual shouldn't try harder to step off the cycle of rebirth...due to violence. We must acknowledge our wrongs and make every attempt to attain right action.
Doesn't it make you wonder...that animal activists may possibly have been animals in their previous life and now they are here to lead the way out of our caveman nature.
Pamela, if you have questions, please direct them to our friend Mahabala, because he is the expert...not I. It's a learning experience for me but, as I told Mahabala...it feels like an archaeological dig, the more that I read the B'Gita, the more layers of conditioning are falling away, and I feel like all my core beliefs are in this book. So definitely, there was a lifetime that I lived worshipping Lord Krsna as a Hindu, probably along with the soul who is my granddaughter now, she loves hearing the Hare Krsna maha-mantra.
People can think me a nut...but at least I'm finding peace and happiness.
Listen...
http://www.krishna.com/files/teachings/Hare_Krishna_mantra.mp3
Here is a good website Pamela! Each link is awesome!
http://www.krishna.com/main.php?id=316
Another good one...
http://www.krishnatemple.com/manor/harrison/gh-mm2.shtm
Everybody is looking for KRISHNA
Some don't realise that they are, but they are.
KRISHNA is GOD, the Source of all that exists,
The Cause of all that is, was, or ever will be
As GOD is unlimited, HE has many Names.
Allah-Buddha-Jehova-Rama
All are KRISHNA, all are ONE.
By serving GOD through each thought, word, and
DEED, and by chanting of HIS Holy Names,
The devotee quickly develops God-consciousness.
By chanting
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama
Rama Rama, Hare Hare
One inevitably arrives at KRISHNA Consciousness.
(The proof of the pudding is in the eating!)
ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE (KRISHNA) HARI BOL George.Harrison
- God
- Love
- Peace
Momo
Roasted Pork
Steak
This is What you Dont.. (Click on the Pictures to enlarge)
Animal's Limbs are tied and then their throat cut. Sometimes the knife is blunt which causes great undying pain
After cutting the throat, the Animal is left to die. This is called "HALLAL" in Muslim and is performed by Muslim butchers.
When the animal tries to breathe, air comes out of their cut throat causing them great pain & makes bubbles of blood
Goats awaiting their turn to be slaughtered. Usually they are slaughtered in front of the other goats. The Animal tries to escape when the butcher comes to pick them.
Some butchers put water in the animal's mouth before slaughter. The helpless animal cries but nobody comes to their rescue. This is how your dinner is served.
When the sharp knife is run through their throat, it makes a 'SHACK' 'SHACK' sound and the helpless animal can do nothing except wait for their neck to be cut off.
Animals are kept without food for weeks before finally killing them.
A butcher can never feel the pain of a dying animal but you surely can.
Every morning when you wake up, 1000s of animals are already slaughtered to satisfy your taste. Many of these animals are skinned while still alive.
Please Help us end this cruelty.. Avoid meat as far as possible.
If you can, Go Vegetarian and join the Millions of People who lives a cruelty-free life.
Every morning when you wake up, 1000s of animals are already slaughtered to satisfy your taste. Many of these animals are skinned while still alive!
Please help end this cruelty! Avoid meat as far as possible. If you will...become a vegetarian and join the millions of people who live a cruelty-free life.
Please, for the sake of your soul.
Love & Peace
What’s wrong with drinking milk? Don't dairy cows need to be milked?
In order for a cow to produce milk, she must have a calf. "Dairy Cows" are impregnated every year in order to keep up a steady supply of milk. In the natural order of things, the cow's calf would drink her milk (eliminating her need to be milked by humans). But dairy cows' babies are taken away within a day or two of its birth so that humans can have the milk nature intended for their calves. Female dairy calves are confined for 16 weeks in tiny veal crates too small for them even to turn around in.
The current high demand for dairy products requires that cows be pushed beyond their natural limits, genetically engineered and fed growth hormones in order to produce huge quantities of milk. Even the few farmers who choose not to raise animals intensively must both eliminate the calf (who would otherwise drink the milk) and eventually send the mother off to slaughter after her milk production wanes.
I am just a tad confused, Mata. I grew up with Holstein dairy cattle. They had calves maybe once or twice a year, naturally.
Otherwise, they ate grass all day, came back to the barn, were milked. The eating of the grass produced milk, so much of it they were glad to be milked each night to get relief. Being pregnant and having calves were not prerequisites for a dairy cow to produce milk.
Thank you, Freddie.
A very sad story...but a true sign of the spirit within.
Love & Peace
Mata
Evidently, UsdiGadu...that isn't the case in all farming.
Love & Peace
My daughter and I have never been big meat eaters and I have never eaten seafood or fish but... one day about 7 years ago we were taking a summer road trip and suddenly, it appeared to be snowing. We couldn't figure it out until... we came upon this HUGE semi-truck PACKED with chickens. They were in cages not even big enough to turn around in and we knew where they were headed. We were both sick... We came home and began doing some research and the more we learned (leather, slaughter houses, etc.), the more we knew and the more appalled and sickened we became. No meat since then. And the less of it we eat, the less of it we miss. I used to love the smell of grilling out - not anymore. Now, I just tolerate it. Life is life ya know?
This post was modified from its original form on 31 May, 15:50
This post was modified from its original form on 31 May, 15:51
Hello everyone, Im new to this group 
I'm Vegan. So.. you can figure out where I stand on the Why eat animals debate lol.
Since I'm not here to judge anyone all Im going to do is send whomever is interested in becoming Vegan or Vegetarian to the following sites. Is more usefull than me going into it myself.
http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/nutshell.htm
http://www.veganessentials.com
I'm Vegan for so many reasons, one important reason is I don't believe in taking of any life and I know I would never kill any living creature so I could never accept someone else killing a creature for me just because I didn't see it happen. I would never allow myself to live a life of ignorance.
Why am I Vegan? I thought this was a good question I should answer. Because people often wonder, why be so extreme?
Because as I said I do not believe in the taking of any living creature's life. In fact I don't believe in giving any pain to animals.
If you wonder... what is wrong with wearing leather or consuming goods with ANY animal part. To begin with this is partly why:
Apart from not believing in killing, I also realize that more often than not these animals are killed in very inhumane ways. For me this includes not purchasing any item tested on an animal either. What Vegan means to me is trying to live your life in the most ethical way you possibly can. Noone can do this fully however we can certainly keep on trying untill we achieve a complete end to all animal suffering.
I also want to see a complete end to all human suffering, I believe that with more compassion towards all living creautres we will have made a good start.
This whole group and especially this thread richly deserve the Care2Guru Stamp of Approval Award.
CONGRATULATIONS ! ! !
Thanks, Sarvo! We're honored.
I'm sorry that I was absent without explanation. I didn't mean to ignore anyone. I've been catering to my kids using my computer.
Juliaanna, How long have you been a Vegan?
Hi Kristi and Patti...I wish when I'd seen the same things as you two did, that I'd become an herbivore right then, at my own grandfather's house! But evolution of the soul takes time. God is very patient with us...and it does say in the Bible that we have eaten our own grandfathers. It's a disgusting thought isn't it?
Gotta run...the kids are going canoeing and I have to drive the truck to the river.
Love & Peace
Oh, BTW...from an e-mail...
Question: How Do Animals Know God?...
I am so thankful for the letter Ankita has written to you expressing concern for the bloodbath that takes place in the animal kingdom. I have been wanting to write to you about this for some time but didn't know how to pose my concern.
I understand your reply but it hasn't really satisfied my sorrow. I guess I want to understand how to take the killings into perspective. It's true, you can't turn on a non-fiction television channel without seeing documentaries that show the cruelty and harshness and predator over prey situations. I hurt so badly inside, I can't switch the channel quick enough.
Even when I am not watching it I am aware of what is going on and the immense sorrow I feel for what I see as pain and suffering and fear is overwhelming.
How do I use the Bhagavad-gita's words to help me not to feel sorrow for this?
I try to say to myself, "Well, in the next life, this innocent animal will come back stronger, or loved and happy." Is this correct? How do the animals know God?
Thanks again for keeping me sane,
Kat
Answer: By Evolution of Consciousness...
Because of your nice saintly qualities you are finding the inevitable suffering of this material world to be intolerable. There is no material solution for these miseries. The only solution is a spiritual solution. Everyone has to be killed today or tomorrow by the stringent laws of the material nature. The plants also have consciousness and are not happy about being killed.
Therefore Krishna tells us to get out of this miserable place and come back to His abode. This is the only real solution.
a-brahma-bhuvanal lokah
punar avartino 'rjuna
mam upetya tu kaunteya
punar janma na vidyate
"From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kunti, never takes birth again."
---Bhagavad-gita8.16
There is a natural evolutionary system that gradually brings every living being to the human form of life in which he can realize God and return to the Lord's eternal abode. This is the good news. Everyone gets a chance to become liberated from this world of death.
The saddest thing is after the living being evolves to the human form and does not utilize it for self-realization. In such a case he is forced by the laws of nature to head back down to the animal kingdom where he awaits his chance to again become a human being.
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
This is along thread, with so many thoughts that I have about animals myself...I love the Gita quotes....Mata, this is a great thread it should open some closed eyes/hearts to the torture we are inflicting, Man will never reach his full until he honors tethe Lesser among us.
Hi Elizabeth, when we have learned the true meaning of the word compassion, the world will begin to change. It really does begin with people recognizing the eternal soul or spirit in everything. When we accept that fact, it certainly makes us less needy for the material aspect of the world. Then the connections between God, man, animal and everything on the planet on which we co-exist takes on a very intimate association.
The very fact is...that our life begins with our being helpless and dependent on our mother for our very life. This fundamental need to be nurtured and loved, shows us that the basic dimension, is really one of love and compassion. This is instinctual and it's why we continuously search for love, and feel that something is missing from our lives without it. Before that...is the initial attraction of elements. The coupling that led to creation.
Some say that we are one...I don't believe that, and never have, it's too ambiguous and just doesn't feel like a truth. On the other hand, when the B'Gita says that we are fragments of God...it rings true. The ultimate and supreme force of all creation was that of love.
If the elements were in opposition...they did eventually join to make one, but that one became many. So, we are from the same forces that combined negative and positive, and as the result, we cannot help experiencing the pull of both directions. We can only come to terms with our birthright and try to balance, or neutralize the structure of our origin.
I'm really straying from the context with this post. But, I guess that we are animals too...and kill each other. Put a weapon in the hands of a man and he becomes every bit as wild as a lion or bear. If you put a man without a weapon, before a hungry lion...the man is no longer at the top of the food chain, is he?
Love & Peace
First let me introduce my self I am a Muslim, resident of India and working for a software company. I have been regularly getting your Q & A mails from my colleague and I have really developed keen interest towards teachings and concepts about consciousness. The most interesting thing about your messages are that is very universal in appeal and scientific and this got me hooked on to it.
I request you to clarify and enlighten further on your answer on the topic of "Why should an individual should consume vegetarian food" ( Q&A mentioned below for reference.) And i quote your specific sentence which i feel is specific to a sect or religion and thus does not apply to everyone "So if we want to be pure in our eating, we must first offer our food to the Lord before we consume it".
I am not convinced by the answer you provided here as i feel it is specific for the people who are members or followers of ISKCON. And according to me this is not a non sectarian and scientific explanation to convenience a person who is not associated to ISKCON.
My colleague could not give me an convincing reply which he usually gives and has thus asked me to contact you.
I find all your other explanations and examples very scientific and universal except the one mentioned above. I am sure you will help me to understand your explanation.
Thanking you in anticipation.
Best Regards,
Tanveer
Answer: Compassion is Non-Sectarian...
I am very happy to hear that you are appreciating our presentation of the science of God. One of our leading saints is Namacharya Srila Haridas Thakur, who comes from your Muslim community.
Compassion is a universal non-sectarian principle. If you think eating an animal is an of compassion just imagine if you were the animal and someone came to kill you and eat you.
Meat eating is allowed in the Bible, the Koran, and in the Vedas but under restriction. This is for those low class persons who lack compassion so that they can gradually make some spiritual advancement. But the saintly class of men always show compassion to all living beings and give up the consumption of flesh and blood.
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.Genesis 9:3-5
41 " 'Every creature that moves about on the ground is detestable; it is not to be eaten. 42 You are not to eat any creature that moves about on the ground, whether it moves on its belly or walks on all fours or on many feet; it is detestable. 43 Do not defile yourselves by any of these creatures. Do not make yourselves unclean by means of them or be made unclean by them. 44 I am the LORD your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves about on the ground. 45 I am the LORD who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore be holy, because I am holy.
46 " 'These are the regulations concerning animals, birds, every living thing that moves in the water and every creature that moves about on the ground. 47 You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean, between living creatures that may be eaten and those that may not be eaten.' "Leviticus 11.41-47
Isaiah 1:11-14
11 "The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?" says the LORD.
"I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
Hi Mahabala and Sarvo! Sarvo, I like your new profile pic...for a second there I thought it was George Burns.
Mahabala...those are scriptures from the Old Testament...I don't believe that Jesus made any statements about eating animals. If any of our members know of this...please enlighten.
Yuck! How appetizing! Eating a cow with a tumor! I think I'd rather live on my fingernails and toenails...
except, I might chip a tooth on my toenails! 
Question: Is Mercy Killing Justified?...
Could you please enlighten me on what the scriptures say about killing of animals generally and more specifically to put an end to their suffering?
In the West animal shelters humanely euthanize dogs and cats. Is this right from the spiritual point of view?
If it is wrong to practice mercy killing, then what is the justification to see the prolonged suffering of the animal? Do animals have karma?
Thank you and Hare Krishna!
Rajen
Answer: Humane Killing?...
It is a very noble ideal to want to relieve living beings from their suffering. If we have a desire to do this, it is very nice. But we must learn how to do it properly so that we do not prolong their suffering or increase their suffering. Every living being in each species has an allotted amount of suffering and enjoyment it is meant to experience in that species. Once that is finished, they then move on to the next higher species on the evolutionary ladder. In this way they gradually move up to the human form in which they revive their original divine consciousness and once and for all escape the cycle of birth and death.
Euthanization simply postpones their misery and delays that time when they can become completely free from all suffering by becoming a self-realized soul. Therefore if we really want to do good for others we should give them Krishna consciousness, not euthanization. We should let hear the holy names of the Lord and taste Krishna prasadam. These are beneficial for the spiritual emancipation of all souls whether they are embodied in a human form, an animal form, or a plant form.
If someone came to kill you humanely would you accept it?
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
Slaughtered to satisfy our appetites.
We never pause to wonder at our feasts,
If animals, like men, can possibly have rights.
We pray on Sundays that we may have light,
To guide our footsteps on the path we tread.
We're sick of war, we do not want to fight -
The thought of it now fills our hearts with dread,
And yet - we gorge ourselves upon the dead.
Like carrion crows we live and feed on meat,
Regardless of the suffering and the pain
we cause by doing so, if thus we treat
defenceless animals for sport or gain,
how can we hope in this world to attain,
the PEACE we say we are so anxious for.
We pray for it o'er hecatombs of slain,
to God, while outraging the moral law,
thus cruelty begets its offspring - WAR.
That poetry gives me goosebumps.
I am making a conscious effort not to squish bugs. But I do think that there are evil bugs...like ticks and fleas. I will have no mercy on them. Krsna kills evil parasitic things. (I hope that he remembers to kill all the evil, parasitic neo-cons.) They annoy my dog and cat (not the neo-cons...the fleas and ticks.)
AND besides, the fleas then bite my darling little g-daughter's ankles, so...for the past couple of years we use a medicine for Zen and Kiki. Truthfully, they are so grateful not to spend half of their lives itching the nasty bites from those parasitic fleas, and Lord knows how many ticks that I've had to remove from Zen!
You have to touch the tip of their blood, bloated bodies with a hot match, with the fire quickly blown out...this makes them retract their stinger that embeds into the host animal. Then with a pair of tweezers pluck it out from as close to the skin of the animal so as to get the whole nasty tick.
I once tried to pull one out without burning it first, and only pulled off the bloated body and watched in horror as it's head burrowed into the animal and disappeared from my view. That was the most horrible thing to watch...it even topped Texas Chainsaw Massacre. (Isn't that where the Bush family hails? Well no wonder...that explains everything!)
I wonder if government people come back as fleas and ticks?
I'm convinced! R U?
Sorry, feeling a bit devilish today.
I'm kinda new here, and vegetarian, been so for about 3-5 monthsish. I'm not too good at keeping time...What convinced me? I don't have any religous belifs against it since I'm almost always between religons (I can never seem to follow one for more than a week or two, then I lose interest). I keep chickens, for eggs, pets, and I show them at the fair (the show is kinda like the AKC show for chickens, some people take it really seriously, but I don't, the other show I do with them is basically how much I know about my animal and how well I've been taking care of them.) Anyways, on with it. I like them as pets and by watching them, I realized they are smart animals and eating one of pet chickens was no different than eating the ones at the grocery store. First it was just chicken, but then if became all meat. I love my chickens - alot. I could go on for hours about them...
^On the fleas and ticks, I agree with you! Just add Mosquitoes, and mites to that list. Mosquitoes spread disease, especically in birds like my chickens or finches, and malaria in people. Mites are like ticks that attack birds and reptiles...hate them....
Man created with a higher faculty is not at all meant to eat other animals or birds or any creatures. He is meant to create his own food by working on the Mother Earth i.e. bread labour.
Also, the experiments in the name of "science and technology" on innocent living beings should be stopped forthwith.
Mahatma Gandhi said the following decades before his assassination on January 30, 1948:
“I abhor vivisection with my whole soul. I detest the unpardonable slaughter of innocent life in the name of science and humanity so-called, and all the scientific discoveries stained with innocent blood, I count as of no consequence. If the circulation of blood theory could not have been discovered without vivisection, the human kind could well have done without it. And, I see the day clearly dawning when the honest scientist of the West will put limitations upon the present methods of pursuing knowledge. Who can deny that much that passes for science and art to-day destroys the soul instead of uplifting it and instead of evoking the best in us panders to our basest passions?”
Hi all! Please note that veg food --
Soya beans in all its forms,
Sprouted green grams
Sprouted fenugreek seeds
Green peas
fresh vegetables
Lentils
drumstick leaves
various greens---
all these contain more protein
more iron besides carbohydrates
THAN
meat, beef, pork and fish or eggs.
And that the protein in the veg food is more easily digestible than ANY flesh food!!
That is sfficient info for all those who supplement flesh for protein!! And those who eat animals for protein!!
blessings.
Savitri Hari
Sorry to be responding to a few of you so late...but for a while Care2 group messaging wasn't working and I missed your posts! Then I was vacationing for a few weeks...now that I'm home, I can be more attentive to the good people here!
Dorothy, I agree about the mosquitoes and mites being evil and bloodthirsty. It really does make me believe that there is a correlation between them and politicians as far as transmigration is concerned. 
Thank you for posting the quote by Mahatma Gandhi, R.R., I love the way he spoke with compassion and intelligence!
Savitri, while visiting my relatives in California, I was introduced to soy milk and because I appear to have a allergic reaction to milk products...I am now using soy, instead and it's quite tasty!
Thanks for the link, Mahabala...it's an interesting site and the one I really liked so far is...
LAMB TO THE SLAUGHTER
In a lunch session in a slaughterhouse, a lamb jumped out of its pen and came unnoticed up to some slaughtermen, who were sitting in a circle eating their sandwiches; the lamb approached and nibbled a small piece of lettuce that a man was holding in his hand. The men gave the lamb some more lettuce and when the lunch period was over they were so affected by the action of the lamb that not one of them was prepared to kill this creature, and it had to be sent away elsewhere - showing that within each human soul there is an element of pity, compassion and love in varying degrees. It is our duty to encourage the higher qualities in each individual to bloom and blossom wherever possible.
If Britain adopted a vegetarian way of life, many of her problems would recede and dissolve...If this way of living were adopted, a great deal of cruelty would cease; compassion, pity and consideration for others would grow and there would be happier and healthier conditions in the world and on this island. It is change not of legislation that is wanted, but a change of heart of the people. - Dr. Gordon Latto (Reproduced by kind permission of The Vegetarian Society.)
Love & Peace
Why eat animals?...because sooner or later I'm going to get my dad back for being rotten! lol
Very funny, Superman! I see that you've read the Bible. Do you remember just where the scripture is that say something to that effect? Thanks for your comment, and watch out for the kryptonite!
I don't get people who read the Bible and don't KNOW who the Anti is...my mum thought that it was Clinton, and now she's dead. 
That's a joke! For those of you out there with oh, so sensitive feelings. Mums fine...she's sitting at the feet of Jesus, listening to him with hearts in her eyes, and a smile on her lovely face.
Love & Peace
That says what? That it's ok to eat animals? There are lots of references on that subject, but they restrict the types of animals that it's ok to eat. The Bible said that it was ok to eat animals in the New Testament referring to meat sacrificed on the altar, but it also said that you shouldn't try to force people one way or the other. It says that if you cause someone to do something they believe is wrong, you have to pay the price they would pay for committing the wrong. If you let me know exactly what you were asking, I can give you specific verses.
Love, Hope, Peace, & Christ Be With You,
Cal-el
This scripture is in Ezekiel, Chapter 5, Verse 10:
Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers; and I will execute judgments in thee, and the whole remnant of thee will I scatter into all the winds.
Doesn't that sound like it refers to reincarnation? How else would a father or son eat the other unless the soul transmigrates? It's an abomination to eat animals because of the transmigration.
And in that chapter it tells about sending forth the evil beasts...like ticks, and mosquitoes, because of people not following the commandments of God.
Ezekiel is the very book that God directed me to when I asked for guidance about my life mission in the early 1980's. The 3 verses that kept popping out at me was...
Eze 2:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, [even] unto this very day
Eze 2:4 For [they are] impudent children and stiffhearted. I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 2:5 And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they [are] a rebellious house,) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them.
Now some people think that Israel is in Palestine...I believe that Israel is the USA. The 12 tribes went all over the world...they didn't just stay in the Middle East. The website that convinced me of this is at this link...that a friend showed me 4 or 5 years ago.
Jah
http://jahtruth.net/abraham.htm
Love & Peace
P.S. That first chapter sounds as if he was having a vision of aircraft...the ones in WWII had faces painted on them sometimes.
That scripture from the Bible...about fathers eating sons and sons eating their fathers...I understand it to mean that since the soul transmigrates to any of the lifeforms available, at any given time a father who has passed on, could end up being reborn in the form of...say a cow or pig on the very farm that belongs to a young man who was once his own son. The son then kills the animal and therefore eats his own father.
Also I received this e-mail and think it a great answer to an important question.
Question: Krishna's Form According to Our Form?
I humbly ask this question:
On planet Earth we have the image of Lord Krishna similar to our own human form. On other planets, will the other inhabitants understand that Lord Krishna has a form similar to theirs, as they see themselves?
Thank you for your response.
Lin,
Argentina
Answer: Our Form According to Krishna's Form
Some people argue that man imagines a form of God according to his own form. According to this philosophy, which is known as anthropomorphism, if dogs had a conception of God, they would imagine Him to be a super dog. And if cats had a conception of God, they would imagine Him to be a super cat.
But this is not at all the case. It is not true that we imagine the form of God according to our own form. The actual situation is that God has a form and we, being His children, have a form similar to His. Even in the Bible it is stated, "And God created man in His own image."
All living beings, no matter what species they are, have as their original spiritual form, a human form.
So Krishna has the same form for everyone. It does not matter which planet they live on or what kind of body they have. Anyone who develops pure love of God will be able to see and directly associate with that same person Krishna, Who has the most beautiful transcendental form.
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
Beautiful! There's that DNA, again! Transmigrating from form to form is an evolutionary process. We mustn't blow it! OR blow it up!
Love & Peace
Of course there is one of the bloodtypes on this planet that can devour almost anything with little difficulty, it is the blood type O and eating all there is and coping effectively with alot of stuff that causes stress, this is one type who is quite resilient. I feel eating according to my blood type (AB+), has been a life-changing experience worth sharing. What I cannot metabolize properly because of genes, chromosomes, inherited eating patterns and bad food choices when I was young, has been cut out of my diet for almost three years. No more processed white refined sugar for me and animal fat has been reduced to two beef burgers a month, 6-8 chicken tenders, breasts or thighs a month and the rest vegetables mostly high in alkalinity instead of acidity plus fish, fish and more fish-- lots of that ! I geuss those humans who continue to consume animal protein moreso than vegetable protein do not know enough about what their individual bodies can tolerate and if they prefer obesity so be it. At least I gave my health a second chance at improvement but it took a darn ovarian cyst to burst and teach me to listen to my nutritional needs first and foremost ! It is truly what goes in that makes all the differenece !sharing the light,
Erica H.
Hi Erica & Genelda! 
I've had a chance to read the book on my blood type O, which is known as the universal donor. We can give our blood to any of the other blood types, but can only receive from other type O's. I am also RH negative. People of African ancestry are mostly O types.
The book says that type O is from the hunter gatherer group and carries the genetic imprint of the very first humans, the Cro-Magnon. Easily susceptible to insulin production problems...wheat and corn are not good for us nor is sugar, and I haven't been able to wean myself from those poisons. Also meat-eaters...but I've stopped eating animals...two years in on the 16th of Sept. Still the immune system is functional, so not eating meat does not cause illness. THINKING about illness causes illness.
I've never had Essene or Ezekial bread, what is it like? It has to be refrigerated. I asked for it at a health food store after I finished the book but they didn't carry it. There is a new store in town...I'll have to check it out.
One thing that is important to ALL diets is to have a variety and not eat the same things all the time...not an easy thing to do...but by praying to God to bless the food to your body, or as the Krsna's do...offer it to God first, and it is blessed and will not be poisonous.
It is mind over matter, most importantly...and watching so as not to gain too much weight to cause imbalance.
Thank you, both for inspiring me to 'get with it'.
Love & peace
I have eaten the Ezekial Bread. It is a sprouted bread. Because the seed grains have been sprouted , The gluten lectins have been destroyed by the sprouting. It no longer contains the gluten that can undermine the immune system. These are live foods with many beneficial enzymes intact. The Bread is usually found in the freezer sections of the health food store. Commercial versions of sprouted breads unfortunately do contain gluten.
However, a neutral grain was spelt. In the Cook 4 your type, I found a reciepe for making Spelt bread. The commercial spelt bread also contains wheat flours, so can't be used. But I think my daughter has a bread machine so I'll borrow it and makeit for myself.
Actually I am planning on trying this diet for weight loss. It does say that just eating right will balance your weight out over time. But I plan on using the weight loss plan. I also found the locally organically grown beef, chicken and turkey farm which also sells eggs and produce. Since the gardens are closing down now, I will have to buy organic at my health food store for some of my produce.
Anyway I plan on being able to start in 2 weeks, but it says to start gradually.
I wish you great success with this goal! If we lived near by, I'd try to get you to start a Yoga exercise program with me. It's wonderful slow stretching movements for the muscles. When the muscles are elongated, they put less stress on the bones and you begin to feel better within a few weeks. You notice the comfort in the fit of your clothing next. But, depending on the exercise...it can help get rid of any extra fat. I've been slowly thinning down, and I can tell you how much easier it is on the knees, to go up and down stairs without all the excess weight.
Let me know if you find a good recipe, Genelda, I'll try making some too.
Love & Peace
Hi Rachel! Glad you didn't break any teeth, and thanks for the warning! So, what does this stuff taste like? It can be bread AND cereal? I really have to try this kind of food! Are you a Type O, too?
Love & Peace
"Animals that are killed for food, will automatically become human in their next existence."
I'm not sure I completely buy into this interpretation of karmic law, and yet...
How many people have you met or known that are more in character of a pig? a bear? a snake? a rat? a bull? a lion? a badger? a goat? how 'bout a sheep??????
not that these animals reincarnating as human is the only explanation either - soul evolution is another....
yet, it is a cause to take pause, and consider how much more harmonious and productive all species would be, if we humans exercised more compassion... much more. if you can't start with compassion toward animals of fur, feather or fin, try being more compassionate toward those with skin... it really does extend from there.
OM Shanti
Hi Holly, thanks for bringing us back to the topic.
It does say that in the Bhagavad-Gita, but an important word was left out. I apologise, if it was me who did it.
Sacrifice is the key word. The animals that are eaten by humans are treated differently...but the scripture below talks of this and the one following this tells something important about Ahimsa...which is not stopping the progressive life of ANY living entity. I am not Spiritual Master, I look to the B'Gita for this information.
Chapter 2. Contents of the Gita SummarizedTEXT 31
sva-dharmam api caveksya
na vikampitum arhasi
dharmyad dhi yuddhac chreyo 'nyat
ksatriyasya na vidyate
SYNONYMS
sva-dharmam--one's own religious principles; api--also; ca--indeed; aveksya--considering; na--never; vikampitum--to hesitate; arhasi--you deserve; dharmyat--from religious principles; hi--indeed; yuddhat--than fighting; sreyah--better engagements; anyat--anything else; ksatriyasya--of the ksatriya; na--does not; vidyate--exist.
TRANSLATION
Considering your specific duty as a ksatriya, you should know that there is no better engagement for you than fighting on religious principles; and so there is no need for hesitation.
PURPORT
Out of the four orders of social administration, the second order, for the matter of good administration, is called ksatriya. Ksat means hurt. One who gives protection from harm is called ksatriya (trayate--to give protection). The ksatriyas are trained for killing in the forest. A ksatriya would go into the forest and challenge a tiger face to face and fight with the tiger with his sword. When the tiger was killed, it would be offered the royal order of cremation. This system is being followed even up to the present day by the ksatriya kings of Jaipur state. The ksatriyas are specially trained for challenging and killing because religious violence is sometimes a necessary factor. Therefore, ksatriyas are never meant for accepting directly the order of sannyasa or renunciation. Nonviolence in politics may be a diplomacy, but it is never a factor or principle. In the religious law books it is stated:
ahavesu mitho 'nyonyam jighamsanto mahi-ksitah
yuddhamanah param saktya svargam yanty aparan-mukhah
yajnesu pasavo brahman hanyante satatam dvijaih
samskrtah kila mantrais ca te 'pi svargam avapnuvan
"In the battlefield, a king or ksatriya, while fighting another king envious of him, is eligible for achieving heavenly planets after death, as the brahmanas also attain the heavenly planets by sacrificing animals in the sacrificial fire." Therefore, killing on the battlefield on religious principles and the killing of animals in the sacrificial fire are not at all considered to be acts of violence, because everyone is benefited by the religious principles involved. The animal sacrificed gets a human life immediately without undergoing the gradual evolutionary process from one form to another, and the ksatriyas killed in the battlefield also attain the heavenly planets as do the brahmanas who attain them by offering sacrifice. There are two kinds of sva-dharmas, specific duties. As long as one is not liberated, one has to perform the duties of that particular body in accordance with religious principles in order to achieve liberation. When one is liberated, one's sva-dharma--specific duty--becomes spiritual and is not in the material bodily concept. In the bodily conception of life there are specific duties for the brahmanas and ksatriyas respectively, and such duties are unavoidable. Sva-dharma is ordained by the Lord, and this will be clarified in the Fourth Chapter. On the bodily plane sva-dharma is called varnasrama-dharma, or man's steppingstone for spiritual understanding. Human civilization begins from the stage of varnasrama-dharma, or specific duties in terms of the specific modes of nature of the body obtained. Discharging one's specific duty in any field of action in accordance with varnasrama-dharma serves to elevate one to a higher status of life.
TEXT 1-3
sri-bhagavan uvaca
abhayam sattva-samsuddhir
jnana-yoga-vyavasthitih
danam damas ca yajnas ca
svadhyayas tapa arjavam
ahimsa satyam akrodhas
tyagah santir apaisunam
daya bhutesv aloluptvam
mardavam hrir acapalam
tejah ksama dhrtih saucam
adroho nati-manita
bhavanti sampadam daivim
abhijatasya bharata
SYNONYMS
sri-bhagavan uvaca--the Supreme Personality of Godhead said; abhayam--fearlessness; sattva-samsuddhih--purification of one's existence; jnana--knowledge; yoga--of linking up; vyavasthitih--the situation; danam--charity; damah ca--and controlling the mind; yajnah ca--and performance of sacrifice; svadhyayah--study of Vedic literature; tapah--austerity; arjavam--simplicity; ahimsa--nonviolence; satyam--truthfulness; akrodhah--freedom from anger; tyagah--renunciation; santih--tranquility; apaisunam--aversion to fault-finding; daya--mercy; bhutesu--towards all living entities; aloluptvam--freedom from greed; mardavam--gentleness; hrih--modesty; acapalam--determination; tejah--vigor; ksama--forgiveness; dhrtih--fortitude; saucam--cleanliness; adrohah--freedom from envy; na--not; ati-manita--expectation of honor; bhavanti--become; sampadam--qualities; daivim--transcendental; abhijatasya--of one who is born of; bharata--O son of Bharata. TRANSLATION
The Blessed Lord said: Fearlessness, purification of one's existence, cultivation of spiritual knowledge, charity, self-control, performance of sacrifice, study of the Vedas, austerity and simplicity; nonviolence, truthfulness, freedom from anger; renunciation, tranquility, aversion to faultfinding, compassion and freedom from covetousness; gentleness, modesty and steady determination; vigor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, freedom from envy and the passion for honor--these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature.
(Since the purport is too long I'm pasting the essential part.)
Ahimsa means not arresting the progressive life of any living entity. One should not think that since the spirit spark is never killed even after the killing of the body there is no harm in killing animals for sense gratification. People are now addicted to eating animals, in spite of having an ample supply of grains, fruits and milk. There is no necessity for animal killing. This injunction is for everyone. When there is no other alternative, one may kill an animal, but it should be offered in sacrifice. At any rate, when there is an ample food supply for humanity, persons who are desiring to make advancement in spiritual realization should not commit violence to animals. Real ahimsa means not checking anyone's progressive life. The animals are also making progress in their evolutionary life by transmigrating from one category of animal life to another. If a particular animal is killed, then his progress is checked. If an animal is staying in a particular body for so many days or so many years and is untimely killed, then he has to come back again in that form of life to complete the remaining days in order to be promoted to another species of life. So their progress should not be checked simply to satisfy one's palate. This is called ahimsa.
Chapter 2. Contents of the Gita Summarized
TEXT 19
ya enam vetti hantaram
yas cainam manyate hatam
ubhau tau na vijanito
nayam hanti na hanyate
SYNONYMS
yah--anyone; enam--this; vetti--knows; hantaram--the killer; yah--anyone; ca--also; enam--this; manyate--thinks; hatam--killed; ubhau--both of them; tau--they; na--never; vijanitah--in knowledge; na--never; ayam--this; hanti--kills; na--nor; hanyate--be killed.
TRANSLATION
He who thinks that the living entity is the slayer or that he is slain, does not understand. One who is in knowledge knows that the self slays not nor is slain.
This post was modified from its original form on 04 Sep, 22:16
PURPORT
When an embodied living entity is hurt by fatal weapons, it is to be known that the living entity within the body is not killed. The spirit soul is so small that it is impossible to kill him by any material weapon, as is evident from the previous verses. Nor is the living entity killable, because of his spiritual constitution. What is killed, or is supposed to be killed, is the body only. This, however, does not at all encourage killing of the body. The Vedic injunction is, "mahimsyat sarva bhutani," never commit violence to anyone. Nor does understanding that the living entity is not killed encourage animal slaughter. Killing the body of anyone without authority is abominable and is punishable by the law of the state as well as by the law of the Lord. Arjuna, however, is being engaged in killing for the principle of religion, and not whimsically.
Also in the Vedas it says, "jiva jiva sa jivanam", which means that the rule is that one living creature is food for another. When we reach the human form of life, however, it is expected that we might then use our God given higher intelligence to reduce the level of violence required for our existence and choose a more sensible diet.
Yes, if you weren't a duck...then you may have been a farmer or duck-herd who valued and conscientiously cared for them, and then carried that fond memory with you to this life.
The good things that we accomplish stay with us always, and the negative karma can be wiped clean with a desire to stick to virtuous goals.
One lifetime of devotion to actions of goodness, can wipe away several lifetimes of failure, or dormancy of soul growth.
Love & Peace
This was in a message from Theo, and since it is pertinant to the way animals are equally loving and thoughtful creatures... I'm posting it at this thread.
The Whale
A female humpback whale had become entangled in a spider web of crab trap sand lines. She was weighted down by hundreds of pounds of traps that caused her to struggle to stay afloat. She also had hundreds of yards of line rope wrapped around her body, her tail, her torso, as well as a line tugging in her mouth.
A fisherman spotted her just east of the Faralon Islands (outside of the Golden Gate area) and radioed for help. Within a few hours, the rescue team arrived and determined that she was so bad off, the only way to save her was to dive in and untangle her. A very dangerous proposition, as one slap of the tail could kill a rescuer.
They worked for hours with curved knives and eventually freed her. When she was free, the divers say she swam in what seemed like joyous circles. She then came back to each and every diver, one at a time, nudged them, and pushed gently, thanking them. Some said it was the most incredibly beautiful experience of their lives.
The guy who cut the rope out of her mouth says her eye was following him the whole time, and he will never be the same.....
May you, and all those you love, be so fortunate...to be surrounded by people who will help you get untangled from the things that are binding you. And, may you always know the joy of giving and receiving gratitude.
Hi, I foound some veeery strange statements here. No, not everybody eats meat. But why most people do? This planet is a ground for low developed spirits that are here to learn and develop. On places for spirits where are spirits living who are already further developed, nobody ever is able to eat a fellow creature. This idea of eating animals is like canibalism to them. On even higher plans, spirits are more off from matter and do not eat anymore at all. There is all love between human spirits, developed animals and plants. On this planet where we live, people who cannot live without eating meat are not developed enough to get on the next step of being a vegetarian. This shows the level of development they are on. The whole discussion about eating meat or not is in vain anyway. People do not change the way they can be influenced by moral or ethics. Ralph
Here's another excellent proof that there is a beautiful, artistic soul living in the form of this elephant...thanks go to Ally. 
Why do you think that it's in vain, to discuss why people shouldn't be eating meat...and what did you read that you think is strange?
Well, here are my two cents on the subject. Just read this thread today. Some very interesting and neat things said. I eat meat, though not much anymore, especially since I've become aware of the bad conditions that a lot of 'food' animals have to suffer through (like pigs, cows, chickens, etc.), especially factory farms which I deplore and have spoken and written letters to govt. officials in charge of doing something about them. When I do eat meat, I say a prayer of thanks (and other things which I'm not going to go into right now) to the spirit of the animal. I don't know if I'll ever totally give up eating all meat. Mel, I watched that elephant video and it is absolutely heartwarming and great. I was mesmerized and even emotional about it. (I've read where some people think it was all fixed and the trainer is moving the elephant's trunk doing it, but some people shoot down everything.) I don't agree that every animal is a 'people' or a 'person'. Yes, there is life force animating every animal's body but I don't know if every animal is a distinct spiritual being like a human being is. A single ant has life force animating it but is every single ant a distinct spiritual being? Or is one spiritual being running a whole bunch of ants? Lots of questions and unless you KNOW by looking at any particular ant or group of ants what exactly is going on, then it's just speculation or ideas or theories. That's one thing I've always wanted to be able to do now for a while, know exactly what I was looking at when I was looking at it. This is much better than thinking, ideas, figuring, belief, faith, maybe's, etc. Anybody can read anything. But all that is important in the end is if he himself KNOWS something is true or not, not whether somebody else has said it is. So rather than just think or believe that it's true that every dog or duck is a distinct operating spiritual being, you'd have to be able to LOOK at each dog or duck and KNOW whether it was one or not.
It's very refreshing that you admit there are a lot of things you don't know. This gives you a much better opportunity than someone else who is not so honest with themselves and others.
The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste]. PURPORT A Krsna conscious person does not make any distinction between species or castes. The brahmana and the outcaste may be different from the social point of view, or a dog, a cow, or an elephant may be different from the point of view of species, but these differences of body are meaningless from the viewpoint of a learned transcendentalist. This is due to their relationship to the Supreme, for the Supreme Lord, by His plenary portion as Paramatma, is present in everyone's heart. Such an understanding of the Supreme is real knowledge. As far as the bodies are concerned in different castes or different species of life, the Lord is equally kind to everyone because He treats every living being as a friend yet maintains Himself as Paramatma regardless of the circumstances of the living entities. The Lord as Paramatma is present both in the outcaste and in the brahmana, although the body of a brahmana and that of an outcaste are not the same. The bodies are material productions of different modes of material nature, but the soul and the Supersoul within the body are of the same spiritual quality. The similarity in the quality of the soul and the Supersoul, however, does not make them equal in quantity, for the individual soul is present only in that particular body whereas the Paramatma is present in each and every body. A Krsna conscious person has full knowledge of this, and therefore he is truly learned and has equal vision. The similar characteristics of the soul and Supersoul are that they are both conscious, eternal and blissful. But the difference is that the individual soul is conscious within the limited jurisdiction of the body, whereas the Supersoul is conscious of all bodies. The Supersoul is present in all bodies without distinction.
Now don't gang up me here guys (just a joke). Sarvo, I can tell you with the utmost certainty, I do not know everything there is to know. (I mean I don't even know how that thing in the microwave that cooks food works or even what it's called, let alone how many grains of sand there are on this planet...or a million other things. I agree with you that a lot of people pretend or kid themselves that they know something when they clearly know they don't, or at least are not sure. This is stupidity in my opinion. I on the other hand almost cannot do anything but be honest about what I see or don't see, know or don't know. To kid myself about anything is a waste of time and energy and effort on my part. Foolish. I think more than one wise person has said to the effect that...wisdom is knowing when you know something and knowing when you don't know something...which of course is wisdom and I agree with that 100%. Wisdom is not knowing data. If I don't know something I'll say I don't know. If I do know something, meaning I'm as certain as anyone can be regarding anything themselves, I'll say so. Hi, Mahabala. I agree that soul and Supersoul sounds basically the same as a soul which is a distinct thing, and life force which merely is animating something (like a plant or some animals), and of course they're both composed of the same energy or life force. I know this probably goes against your learning Mahabala but to me each of us, me, you, Sarvo, the next guy, are all creating continuously everything around us. Every soul/spirit/individual life force unit IS cause and creates effects. We are cause, not effect. We are not a thing, we are the creator of things.
but I can't control the movements of the sun, moon or earth. I may be creating on a small scale but I am neither the supreme creator or controller.
It's good to see you Mahabala, I've missed you. 
I love that part of the scripture that likens the soul as two birds in a tree, one watches as the other experiences. I'm convinced that this represents the ego which is immersed in the conditioned world, and identifies with form...and the other part is the higher self, the part that is closest to God Consciousness, and can connect to the source from whom all blessings flow. That is only when rising above the ego.
I may be creating on a small scale... 
In this picture, one is the source, one is the reflection, and one is the created image. But all are the source. It leads to interesting thoughts.
Mahabala, how do you know you're not helping to control the movements of the earth, sun, and moon? Just because someone isn't aware of something doesn't mean that much. After all, isn't that what paths to enlightenment are for, to find out the answer to the questions "Who am I, what am I, what am I doing, where am I going, what have I been, done," etc., meaning one doesn't know everything about himself, including what he is doing even right now this instant, before he's reached the end of the path. And those are just three tiny little objects in the big physical universe. So, not to evaluate for you but maybe you had a hand in creating the earth, sun, and moon, maybe you had a hand in creating the physical universe, maybe you have amnesia, maybe you did it once and have since put it all on 'automatic', maybe you've 'forgotten' it so you don't have to take responsibility for it. I mean these things are possible (italics) and if you don't KNOW that these things aren't true, then that's all that is...since that means you can't actually discard them as false. You should watch what you say you can't do. The question is, how big would you have to be to do something with the earth, sun, and moon? If you're smaller than them, you obviously can't do much. But if you're bigger... Maybe it's just a question of size, maybe it's just a question of "how big do you want to be?" And size to a spirit is just a consideration. Mel, isn't the word 'ego' a word that was originally created by Freud in psychology? I abhor psychology and psychiatry.
How did I forget my position of creator and controller? How did I become covered by ignorance of that truth about myself if I am supreme?
Out of so many human beings who are suffering, there are a few who are actually inquiring about their position, as to what they are, why they are put into this awkward position and so on. Unless one is awakened to this position of questioning his suffering, unless he realizes that he doesn't want suffering but rather wants to make a solution to all sufferings, then one is not to be considered a perfect human being. Humanity begins when this sort of inquiry is awakened in one's mind. In the Brahma-sutra this inquiry is called "brahma jijnasa." Every activity of the human being is to be considered a failure unless he inquires about the nature of the Absolute. Therefore those who begin to question why they are suffering or where they came from and where they shall go after death are proper students for understanding Bhagavad-gita. The sincere student should also have a firm respect for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Such a student was Arjuna.
This was taken from the Introduction to the Bhagavad Gita by His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami
I think that I know the answer to Mahabala's question about how did I forget? As a fragment of light from the Supreme Source, through will, and in agreement within the universal realm...we don our gay apparel...the skin. (That good, ol, yummy meat-body.) And when we do...it darkens the spirit, it weighs us down, and the gravity of the situation, holds us to the Earth...for better or for worse, as ye shall make of it! In our shock and awe... 
we forget everything! But through the mercy and compassion of the Supreme, we have mates who carry a torch and hand it off, then we're on our way back to the Godhead! But only if we're really, really good lil souls.
Whaddya think? 
Kenneth...I don't know much about Froid, but I am learning more about the ego from Eckhart Tolle's new book. Stay tuned...
What you said about, "how do you know you're not helping to control the movements of the earth, sun, and moon?" ... is so true and awesome!
"There are no extra pieces in the universe. Everyone is here because he or she has a place to fill, and every piece must fit itself into the big jigsaw puzzle."
- Deepak Chopra
I respect Deepak Chopra, though some of his phraseology is strange (to me). I looked up Eckhart Tolle on the net. Haven't read any of his books (I'm not a big book reader). Also looked up 'ego' and more than one dictionary says late 1700's to early 1800's as to when it was created. Sigmund Freud used it extensively in psychoanalysis. And of course, like so many other words it has more than one meaning. One meaning given is it means essentially the 'self' or 'I', and the other definition given in psychoanalysis is not understandable (to me). I'm not sure but maybe Eckhart Tolle has just taken the word and run with it, maybe even creating new definitions himself. Which of course happens frequently with a lot of key words like 'God', 'consciousness', 'self', 'I', etc. Which to me screws things up even more because it takes everyone further and further away from the original word's meaning when someone simply creates their own new meanings when they write a book. You know, if I can just understand this guy and what he has written then I too will be magically enlightened. So just try to follow my brilliant creation and mental machinations and you will reach a higher state of being. Those who can't follow it, too bad, I guess you won't be enlightened. (sorry I'm a bit sarcastic about this). Semantics: some people get so wrapped up in semantics that they forget that the stuff in the jam jar is still jam, regardless of whether it says 'pickles' on the label (or God or consciousness or self etc.) It simply is what it is, regardless of what anyone calls it. It doesn't change because of how we define it. Ex. I once had an interesting discussion with a very devout Catholic who called me a 'mystic', whatever that meant, and then she asked me what/who I thought God was. (a loaded question if ever there was one) So just to avoid any arguments I thought I would give the standard agreed-upon definition of it and said, "God is the Supreme Being". Then she wagged her finger in front of me and said, "No, God is not the Supreme Being, God is Supreme Being". Oh. Well, in other words because of the inclusion on my part of one two-bit three letter word ('the') MY God didn't exist and her's did. Ridiculous! But that's semantics. She was so wrapped up in how something is defined that she thinks the thing being talked about changes by how we define it! Ridiculous! Maha (can I call you that for short) I subscribe to the idea that each person/spirit knows the truth about himself potentially (this is sort of Buddhist though I'm not Buddhist). After all, you're in the condition you're in right now and I'm not you. How did you get in that condition? You'd have to tell me when you found out. I'm not going to evaluate for you. I subscribe to the idea that it's not good or of any value to tell someone what to think about who they are, what they are, what is God etc. and this means verbally or written. Rather it is better to try to simply guide someone to knowing for themselves the truth about things, since they know the truth anyway and you're just helping them (possibly) to find it. You are truth, I am truth, Mel is truth, Joe Blow is truth. When you look at someone you are looking at truth. If there's any truth to be known you're the one who will know it.
...what the lady said about God. I understand her to mean that God is without form and that any being, being supreme is God. But you are correct, too...it's all semantics.
Tolle is very difficult for me to watch on DVD, because he has some strange mannerisms that fascinate me to distraction. I spend more time reading him instead of listening to what he's saying. Reading his book is better for me, he's not ugly or anything...just...unusual. 
He's an essence of stillness.
Yes, Mahabala was the reason that I bought and read the Bhagavad Gita, As It Is, and would like to get the version that Rajan reads. I have the Holy Veda and also would like to read the Upanishads.
Love & Peace
Thanks for the star Mel. Did you just say in your first paragraph "...and that any being, being supreme is God"? Well! I would never have expected it from anyone on this thread. You might have put your finger on it. You do know what you said there don't you?! Than any being, being supreme, is God. Meaning, any being potentially has the ability to be God. That maybe any being has an infinity of potential, an infinity of being able to be anything, anywhere, anytime, which of course all adds up to the definition of 'God' doesn't it. I've always thought that until a person understands themselves fully, they won't be able to understand who or what God is. Now I'm just curious, but where did you get this idea? Because I don't think it could come from the Hindu religion. I think your little gem deserves a star!
This is from a thread that I started at another group...gone into archive. Nobody appreciates a revelation, epiphany or what-not when it comes to saying that we are like Gods! They crucified Christ for it, for God's sake! (Pardon the pun)
Through the discussions at groups like this...I ventured deeper into the words of the Christ...he said it, before I was even awakened to it...and I went to church every Sunday for 16 years until I rebelled. I'd had enough of the hypocracy and cover up.
Jesus spoke unto the Scribes and Pharisees, saying...
I and my Father are one. Then they took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of these do you stone me? They answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, "I said, Ye are gods."
John 10:30-34
http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=2290&pst=618866
The law Jesus is referring to is the Old Testament, specifically the 82nd Psalm which asserts that not only are we God's children, but we are also "gods" (to be sure in-the-making), as well. Although some individuals may be offended with the statement that everyone is a part of God, in recent years more and more people working with esoteric spiritual traditions have come to that very conclusion. Unfortunately, oftentimes those individuals who accept this premise have forgotten the appropriate attitudinal stance that should accompany it. In reality, this claim is not so much true as a verbal statement made about oneself. Instead, it is only true as we become god-like toward one another:
For the Master, Jesus, even the Christ, is the pattern for every man in the earth, whether he be Gentile or Jew, Parthenian or Greek. For all have the pattern, whether they call on that name or not; but there is no other name given under heaven whereby men may be saved from themselves.
What does saved from themselves mean? We have not attained a Christ Consciousness or a Buddha Consciousness if we ignore the message of those individuals who purified their karmic debts through focusing the mental patterns to love, compassion, justice and respect for their fellow man. Christ gave all credit to the Creative Source which he called God and Siddhartha actualized the concept that we are indeed, gods. Every child has its fathers DNA. If you act like your father, you are at one with his will.
The problem with mankind is that we don't want to live under the Universal Laws of goodness. It is so much easier to be selfish and inconsiderate to others, only glorifying self.
Genesis 1:26&27 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Does it not say in your scriptures that you are Gods?
In scripture...Gene sis 3:8 [The serpent tells Eve] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Did the serpent lie?
Genesis 3:22&23 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
God closed off the Garden with the tree of life as punishment to Adam & Eve.
If God is the father, and God created the human...do humans have God's DNA? Isn't that what is required to be genetically in the image of something? Or are we just a creation? Like a bad idea? A Frankenstein?
The idea that God must be formless energy, arrives by deduction, because...as Cezar said, the form has not been found in the atmosphere, or the cosmos or below the ground. So, if we are in the image of the Gods...and we know from Scriptures that there might be many gods, also because of one of the Ten Commandments, 'Thou shalt have no other gods before me.' Doesn't that lead you to believe that there are more than one?
Thanks for the chance to bring it up, Kenneth. And as far as why this group would come to the conclusion, that being supreme is being God...anyone who has an interest in reincarnation, transmigration, multi-dimensional existence, etc...would you expect anything less?
Hi Mel, I'm going to take a while to read your post. At first I was under the mistaken idea that you were angry at me (which you weren't) But you know why? I have just gotten off of a really nutbar emailing back and forth with a journalist column writer of my local newspaper who recently printed an article slamming Paul Watson and the Sea Shepherd Society as basically nazis, and anyone else in the 'religion of environmentalism' as wanting everyone to have abortions and sterilize themselves so the world population will be annihilated and such crap, and that he deserved being shot at, etc. Her article was entitled "Hug the Earth and Kill the Humans". I just had it up to here with journalists and their complete bias, prejudice, and vicious attacks on anyone who believes in manmade climate change and the urgency to do something about it, and environmentalism etc. No more! So I emailed her, really letting her have it. I think journalists consider themselves high above the norm, the 'common' citizen and their ideas. Anyway, so I will read your post when I calm down a bit. Ken
Meat eaters talk about eating breasts, roast rump, dark and light meat and even thighs. There is a clear and present sexual component to the whole business of eating meat. It operates on a subtle unconscious level that most people are clearly unaware of. The visceral aspect of meat eating is very profound and has deep and evocative implications. People get a powerful sexual rush from sinking their teeth into a slab of meat. There are even hormones in meat that fuel lusty desires. If you want to eat meat you should probably also drink alcohol too because the solvent properties of alcohol will help flush some of the heavier toxins from the meat through your system. Once I've loaded up on the meat and alcohol I'm ready for some gross crude sex. The lusty subtle experience of gratifying my desire to pierce flesh feeds into my desire to penetrate it in other ways as well. Meat eating is a real rallying point for a culture that revolves around booze, prostitution and gambling. Washington, D.C. is not the capital of America. Las Vegas, Nevada is.
This post was modified from its original form on 09 Apr, 8:16I think that it is written in our genes to eat meat. A greeting from old times when hunting was needed to survive. Today we can choose. Those with a higher development of their spirit do not eat meat. For many of them the taste of meat is even disgusting and makes them vomit. While undeveloped people like in China even eat and torture animals who are still alive and suffering a lot.
Ralph
Hi Mel, I'm all calmed down. That was a hilarious title, 'Gods R Us'! You certainly know your Bible. Even after reading a fair amount of things in the Bible in my life I still don't know what Jesus Christ really said, or meant. Is he saying he IS God and that everyone IS God? Because he keeps using this terminology of 'my Father' and he is the 'son' which implies he's talking about two things, not one. He doesn't seem to actually come out and say he's God. He calls him his 'father'. And if you are God you're not 'part' of God, that's saying something different. (If I'm me, I'm not 'part' of me, nor am I the son of me or the father of me or other similar confusing ideas). One thing about many of these texts. They rely on interpretation and have been interpreted and almost certainly altered throughout the centuries. You know that party game where one person in a circle whispers to the next person a simple sentence like "The big bird ate the grape and flew away", and each person then whispers to the next person what the last person said to them, and so on, and when you ask the last person what was said to them the original sentence has been altered, completely unintentionally mind you, into something like "A noisy bird flew up to the window looking for some food". It's just human nature, human fallibility, and all sorts of other variables introduced into it. So if ten people can't even duplicate exactly one simple sentence, what do you think happens when hundreds or thousands of people try to do it with many more sentences using complex ideas over centuries? Not only that but the Bible was all written by human beings, no matter if they say God was writing through them. By its own words the Bible says man is fallible, so you have the strange picture of fallible man saying something he wrote is infallible, regardless of him saying God spoke it through him so therefore it 'is the word of God'. Because I guess we just have to take his word for it. So I don't know if anybody really knows what Jesus meant or even said at the time when he said it. Maybe it's been lost in the ravages of time and human fallibility. This is not to invalidate what you said in your post or think about Jesus or the bible. Just my opinions on it.
Lord Krishna explained that all individual persons, including the Lord Himself, are eternal individuals; they were individuals in the past, they are individuals in the present, and they will continue to remain individuals in the future, because all of us are individual souls eternally, and we simply change our bodily dress in different manners. But, actually, we keep our individuality even after liberation from the bondage of material dress. An analytical study of the soul and the body has been very graphically explained by Lord Krsna. And this descriptive knowledge of the soul and the body from different angles of vision has been described here as sankhya, in terms of the Nirukti dictionary Bhagavad gita 2.12 Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be. PURPORT In the Vedas, in the Katha Upanisad as well as in the Svetasvatara Upanisad, it is said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the maintainer of innumerable living entities, in terms of their different situations according to individual work and reaction of work. That Supreme Personality of Godhead is also, by His plenary portions, alive in the heart of every living entity. Only saintly persons who can see, within and without, the same Supreme Lord, can actually attain to perfect and eternal peace. nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman tam atma-stham ye 'nupasyanti dhiras tesam santih sasvati netaresam (Katha 2.2.13) The same Vedic truth given to Arjuna is given to all persons in the world who pose themselves as very learned but factually have but a poor fund of knowledge. The Lord says clearly that He Himself, Arjuna, and all the kings who are assembled on the battlefield, are eternally individual beings and that the Lord is eternally the maintainer of the individual living entities both in their conditioned as well as in their liberated situations. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the supreme individual person, and Arjuna, the Lord's eternal associate, and all the kings assembled there are individual, eternal persons. It is not that they did not exist as individuals in the past, and it is not that they will not remain eternal persons. Their individuality existed in the past, and their individuality will continue in the future without interruption.
Sri Madhavendra Puri, a great devotee and acarya in the line of the devotees, says: sandhya-vandana bhadram astu bhavato bhoh snana tubhyam namo bho devah pitaras ca tarpana-vidhau naham ksamah ksamyatam yatra kvapi nisadya yadava-kulottamasya kamsa-dvisah smaram smaram agham harami tad alam manye kim anyena me "O Lord, in my prayers three times a day, all glory to You. Bathing, I offer my obeisances unto you. O demigods! O forefathers! Please excuse me for my inability to offer you my respects. Now wherever I sit, I can remember the great descendant of the Yadu dynasty [Krsna], the enemy of Kamsa, and thereby I can free myself from all sinful bondage. I think this is sufficient for me."
Chapter 3. Karma-yoga TEXT 10 saha-yajnah prajah srstva purovaca prajapatih anena prasavisyadhvam esa vo 'stv ista-kama-dhuk SYNONYMS saha--along with; yajnah--sacrifices; prajah--generations; srstva--creating; pura--anciently; uvaca--said; praja-patih--the Lord of creatures; anena--by this; prasavisyadhvam--be more and more prosperous; esah--certainly; vah--your; astu--let it be; ista--all desirable; kama-dhuk--bestower. TRANSLATION In the beginning of creation, the Lord of all creatures sent forth generations of men and demigods, along with sacrifices for Visnu, and blessed them by saying, "Be thou happy by this yajna [sacrifice] because its performance will bestow upon you all desirable things." PURPORT The material creation by the Lord of creatures (Visnu) is a chance offered to the conditioned souls to come back home--back to Godhead. All living entities within the material creation are conditioned by material nature because of their forgetfulness of their relationship to Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Vedic principles are to help us understand this eternal relation, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita: vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah. The Lord says that the purpose of the Vedas is to understand Him. In the Vedic hymns it is said: patim visvasyatmesvaram. Therefore, the Lord of the living entities is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam also Srila Sukadeva Gosvami describes the Lord as pati in so many ways: sriyah patir yajna-patih praja-patir dhiyam patir loka-patir dhara-patih patir gatis candhaka-vrsni-satvatam prasidatam me bhagavan satam patih (Bhag. 2.4.20) The praja-pati is Lord Visnu, and He is the Lord of all living creatures, all worlds, and all beauties, and the protector of everyone. The Lord created this material world for the conditioned souls to learn how to perform yajnas (sacrifice) for the satisfaction of Visnu, so that while in the material world they can live very comfortably without anxiety. Then after finishing the present material body, they can enter into the kingdom of God. That is the whole program for the conditioned soul. By performance of yajna, the conditioned souls gradually become Krsna conscious and become godly in all respects. In the Age of Kali, the sankirtana-yajna (the chanting of the names of God) is recommended by the Vedic scriptures, and this transcendental system was introduced by Lord Caitanya for the deliverance of all men in this age. Sankirtana-yajna and Krsna consciousness go well together. Lord Krsna in His devotional form (as Lord Caitanya) is mentioned in the Srimad-Bhagavatam as follows, with special reference to the sankirtana-yajna: krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam sangopangastra-parsadam yajnaih sankirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasah "In this Age of Kali, people who are endowed with sufficient intelligence will worship the Lord, who is accompanied by His associates, by performance of sankirtana-yajna." (Bhag. 11.5.32) Other yajnas prescribed in the Vedic literatures are not easy to perform in this Age of Kali, but the sankirtana-yajna is easy and sublime for all purposes.
Chapter 3. Karma-yoga TEXT 11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha SYNONYMS devan--demigods; bhavayata--having pleased; anena--by this sacrifice; te--those; devah--the demigods; bhavayantu--will please; vah--you; parasparam--mutual; bhavayantah--pleasing one another; sreyah--benediction; param--the supreme; avapsyatha--do you achieve. TRANSLATION The demigods, being pleased by sacrifices, will also please you; thus nourishing one another, there will reign general prosperity for all. PURPORT The demigods are empowered administrators of material affairs. The supply of air, light, water and all other benedictions for maintaining the body and soul of every living entity are entrusted to the demigods, who are innumerable assistants in different parts of the body of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Their pleasures and displeasures are dependent on the performance of yajnas by the human being. Some of the yajnas are meant to satisfy particular demigods; but even in so doing, Lord Visnu is worshiped in all yajnas as the chief beneficiary. It is stated also in the Bhagavad-gita that Krsna Himself is the beneficiary of all kinds of yajnas: bhoktaram yajna-tapasam. Therefore, ultimate satisfaction of the yajna-pati is the chief purpose of all yajnas. When these yajnas are perfectly performed, naturally the demigods in charge of the different departments of supply are pleased, and there is no scarcity in the supply of natural products. Performance of yajnas has many side benefits, ultimately leading to liberation from the material bondage. By performance of yajnas, all activities become purified, as it is stated in the Vedas: ahara-suddhau sattva-suddhih sattva-suddhau dhruva smrtih smrti-lambhe sarvagranthinam vipramoksah As it will be explained in the following verse, by performance of yajna one's eatables become sanctified, and by eating sanctified foodstuffs, one's very existence becomes purified; by the purification of existence, finer tissues in the memory become sanctified, and when memory is sanctified, one can think of the path of liberation, and all these combined together lead to Krsna consciousness, the great necessity of present-day society.
Chapter 3. Karma-yoga TEXT 14 annad bhavanti bhutani parjanyad anna-sambhavah yajnad bhavati parjanyo yajnah karma-samudbhavah SYNONYMS annat--from grains; bhavanti--grow; bhutani--the material bodies; parjanyat--from rains; anna--of food grains; sambhavah--are made possible; yajnat--from the performance of sacrifice; bhavati--becomes possible; parjanyah--rains; yajnah--performance of yajna; karma--prescribed duties; samudbhavah--born of. TRANSLATION All living bodies subsist on food grains, which are produced from rains. Rains are produced by performance of yajna [sacrifice], and yajna is born of prescribed duties. PURPORT Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, a great commentator on the Bhagavad-gita, writes as follows: ye indrady-angatayavasthitam yajnam sarvesvaram visnum abhyarcya tac-chesam asnanti tena tad deha-yatram sampadayanti, te santah sarvesvarasya yajna-purusasya bhaktah sarva-kilbisair anadi-kala-vivrddhair atmanubhava-prati bandhakair nikhilaih papair vimucyante. The Supreme Lord, who is known as the yajna-purusa, or the personal beneficiary of all sacrifices, is the master of all demigods, who serve Him as the different limbs of the body serve the whole. Demigods like Indra, Candra, Varuna, etc., are appointed officers who manage material affairs, and the Vedas direct sacrifices to satisfy these demigods so that they may be pleased to supply air, light and water sufficiently to produce food grains. When Lord Krsna is worshiped, the demigods, who are different limbs of the Lord, are also automatically worshiped; therefore there is no separate need to worship the demigods. For this reason, the devotees of the Lord, who are in Krsna consciousness, offer food to Krsna and then eat--a process which nourishes the body spiritually. By such action not only are past sinful reactions in the body vanquished, but the body becomes immunized to all contamination of material nature. When there is an epidemic disease, an antiseptic vaccine protects a person from the attack of such an epidemic. Similarly, food offered to Lord Visnu and then taken by us makes us sufficiently resistant to material affection, and one who is accustomed to this practice is called a devotee of the Lord. Therefore, a person in Krsna consciousness, who eats only food offered to Krsna, can counteract all reactions of past material infections, which are impediments to the progress of self-realization. On the other hand, one who does not do so continues to increase the volume of sinful action, and this prepares the next body to resemble hogs and dogs, to suffer the resultant reactions of all sins. The material world is full of contaminations, and one who is immunized by accepting prasadam of the Lord (food offered to Visnu) is saved from the attack, whereas one who does not do so becomes subjected to contamination. Food grains or vegetables are factually eatables. The human being eats different kinds of food grains, vegetables, fruits, etc., and the animals eat the refuse of the food grains and vegetables, grass, plants, etc. Human beings who are accustomed to eating meat and flesh must also depend on the production of vegetation in order to eat the animals. Therefore, ultimately, we have to depend on the production of the field and not on the production of big factories. The field production is due to sufficient rain from the sky, and such rains are controlled by demigods like Indra, sun, moon, etc., and they are all servants of the Lord. The Lord can be satisfied by sacrifices; therefore, one who cannot perform them will find himself in scarcity--that is the law of nature. Yajna, specifically the sankirtana-yajna prescribed for this age, must therefore be performed to save us at least from scarcity of food supply.
And as Jesus was going to Jericho there met him a man with a cage full of birds, which he had caught, and some young doves. And he saw how they were in misery having lost their liberty, and moreover being tormented with hunger and thirst. And he said unto the man," What doest thou with these?" And the man answered," I go to make my living by selling these birds which I have taken."
And Jesus said," What thinkest thou, if another, stronger than thou or with greater craft, were to catch thee and bind thee, or thy wife or thy children, and cast thee into a prison, in order to sell thee into captivity for his own profit, and to make a living? Are not these thy fellow creatures, only weaker than thou? And doth not the same God, our Father-Mother, care for them as for thee? Let these thy little brethren and sisters go forth into freedom, and see that thou do this thing no more, but provide honestly for thy living."
And the man marvelled at these words and at his authority, and he let the birds go free. So when the birds came forth they flew unto Jesus and stood on his shoulder and sang unto him. And the man enquired further of his doctrine, and he went his way, and learnt the craft of making baskets, and by this craft he earned his bread, and afterwards he broke his cages and his traps, and became a disciple of Jesus.
"Be ye therefore considerate, be tender, be ye pitiful, be ye kind, not to your own kind alone, but to every creature which is within your care, for ye are to them as gods, to whom they look in their need."
Animals to me are friends and family..well,I certainly can`t eat either friends or family...
And I was shocked...I learned of a scripture from the Bible.
1 Timothy 4:1-5.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
I think that it's clear that Timothy was a meat eater and never had an animal as a friend. Timothy sucks, I don't like HIS policies any more than I like Saul/Paul's religion.
It's really all about compassion and seeing the Spirit within each and every soul.
A hard heart will eat meat without thinking about the painful fate of the animal who became the meat.
