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Republican Party Angry and Divided
1 year ago



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/05/republican-party_n_2415552.html

Republican Party Seems As Divided, Angry As Ever

By STEVE PEOPLES 01/05/13 11:02 AM ET EST AP


BOSTON — The Republican Party seems as divided and angry as ever.

Infighting has penetrated the highest levels of the House GOP leadership. Long-standing geographic tensions have increased, pitting endangered Northeastern Republicans against their colleagues from other parts of the country. Enraged tea party leaders are threatening to knock off dozens of Republicans who supported a measure that raised taxes on the nation's highest earners.


"People are mad as hell. I'm right there with them," Amy Kremer, chairman of the Tea Party Express, said late last week, declaring that she has "no confidence" in the party her members typically support. Her remarks came after GOP lawmakers agreed to higher taxes but no broad spending cuts as part of a deal to avert the "fiscal cliff."


"Anybody that voted `yes' in the House should be concerned" about primary challenges in 2014, she said.


At the same time, one of the GOP's most popular voices, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, blasted his party's "toxic internal politics" after House Republicans initially declined to approve disaster relief for victims of Superstorm Sandy. He said it was "disgusting to watch" their actions and he faulted the GOP's most powerful elected official, House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio.


The GOP's internal struggles to figure out what it wants to be were painfully exposed after Mitt Romney's loss to President Barack Obama on Nov. 6, but they have exploded in recent days. The fallout could extend well beyond the party's ability to win policy battles on Capitol Hill. It could hamper Republicans as they examine how to regroup and attract new voters after a disheartening election season.


To a greater degree than the Democrats, the Republican Party has struggled with internal divisions for the past few years. But these latest clashes have seemed especially public and vicious.


"It's disappointing to see infighting in the party," said Ryan Williams, a Republican operative and former Romney aide. "It doesn't make us look like we're in a position to challenge the president and hold him accountable to the promises he made."


What's largely causing the dissension? A lack of a clear GOP leader with a single vision for the party.



Republicans haven't had a consistent standard-bearer since President George W. Bush left office in 2008 with the nation on the edge of a financial collapse. His departure, along with widespread economic concerns, gave rise to a tea party movement that infused the GOP's conservative base with energy. The tea party is credited with broad Republican gains in the 2010 congressional elections, but it's also blamed for the rising tension between the pragmatic and ideological wings of the party – discord that festers still.


It was much the same for Democrats in the late 1980s before Bill Clinton emerged to win the White House and shift his party to the political center.


2012 presidential nominee Romney never fully captured the hearts of his party's most passionate voters. But his tenure atop the party was short-lived; since Election Day, he's disappeared from the political world.


Those Republican leaders who remain engaged – Christie, Boehner, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus – are showing little sign of coming together.


Those on the GOP's deep bench of potential 2016 presidential contenders, including Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan, and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, have begun staking out their own, sometimes conflicting ideas for the party.

Over the short term at least, the party's divisions probably will continue to be exposed.


Obama has outlined a second-term agenda focused on immigration and gun control; those are issues that would test Republican solidarity even in good times. Deep splits already exist between Republican pragmatists and the conservative base, who oppose any restrictions on guns or allowances for illegal immigrants.

It's unclear whether Obama can exploit the GOP fissures or whether the Republican dysfunction will hamper him. With Boehner unable to control his fractured caucus, the White House is left wondering how to deal with the House on any divisive issue.

Fiscal issues aren't going away, with lawmakers were agree on a broad deficit-reduction package. The federal government reached its borrowing limit last week, so Congress has about two months or three months to raise the debt ceiling or risk a default on federal debt. Massive defense and domestic spending cuts are set to take effect in late February. By late March, the current spending plan will end, raising the possibility of a government shutdown.


Frustrated conservative activists and GOP insiders hope that the continued focus on fiscal matters will help unite the factions as the party pushes for deep spending cuts. That fight also may highlight Democratic divisions because the party's liberal wing vehemently opposes any changes to Social Security or Medicare

(read article for rest)



1 year ago

Obama has the MSM backing him all the way, the Republicans not only need to get their act together but also need to find an alternative way to portray themselves to the public being the media has already been doing so in a negative manner, and of course the republicans have been making it easy for them to do so, but with the MSM going full speed against them it's going to be a near impossible task.

The people wanted a big nanny-like government and so now we have it, and as much as I oppose big government and being part of a nanny state, in a strange way im learning to just kick back and watch our country get exactly what they voted for, as a nation we will either learn our lessons and correct our ways, or continue to head down a path where our grandchildren will never know what it was like to be a truly great nation and a free people.

Republicans, Democrats, extremists on both sides, are all to blame for loosing touch with what their parties once represented, which was "we the people", I know longer believe that either major party can honestly make such a claim.

The worst part of being middle-aged is knowing what once was and what will never again be.

I always love the...
1 year ago

 "big" government slogan..  Government should be as big as it needs to be to efficiently do their job...  If you want less government, reduce the military for starters...  I mean, if we are going to use the big and small argument all the time, why not start there?

 

 

 

1 year ago

Allen, I so agree with your post.  Unfortunately, it is not our grandchildren.  My daughter is 15 and America as I knew her is so different now.  We are so fuked.  We have become our own worst enemies in so many ways.

I love this thought of yours..im learning to just kick back and watch our country get exactly what they voted for.  I think it sums it up.  The way I feel lately.  I don't know what more there is to be done by me personally.  I am just sitting here right now in a mode of okay what else you got.  I can take it, I think?  You haven't killed me off yet.  You might not be able to.  I am to determined to survive the madness.

Something changed in me and I think I attribute alot of it to Sandy.  I just am tired of the shyte is all.  We are certainly not in a position anymore to come up with reasonable legislation or reasonable negotiation. 

We forgot who we are and why we are.  Until we remember, I just don't know anymore.

The republican party is a mess.  They present themselves so poorly.  Even at times when I agree with the basics of what they put forth, I disagree in the way they present it.  

This recent Sandy funding is a perfect example.  They should have from the get go got immediate monies out such as they voted to do yesterday.  Argue over the rest later, immediate need first for fellow Americans. 



I also understand that we are broke and truly FEMA is fairly ineffective and paying for the same disasters over and over again without a planning change in housing location or code makes no sense, along with other measures. 



Pork in these disaster bills should never be allowed.  I disagree with changing the game and doing it when one of the worst storms to hit the East Coast happens.  Don't change the game mid-stream.  Get something together, put it out there so everyone knows the deal, then implement it on the disaster areas. 

This leaving people hanging in a bad spot with no prior knowledge of plan to do so is incredible and questionable in my mind to the location it happened to.

Another example of stupidity is waiting until election time to try to change the election process.  Stupid.  Work on it, put something together and implement long before elections are rolling through.


These times, these representatives are just so frustrating.





This post was modified from its original form on 05 Jan, 19:27
1 year ago

"Government should be as big as it needs to be to efficiently do their job"

Or, give more authority back to the indavidual states, the way it was always intended to be.

Blanket legistlation does not work well when each state has its own unique issues.

1 year ago

Government is to big in the sense of the areas of our lives it invades.  Yet fail to do the jobs that they are truly there to do. 


I agree, Tom, with government should be as big as needed to implement what they are tasked to do.  However they don't do it.  They involve themselves in things they shouldn't and forget to do the same for things they should.  Does that make sense?



This post was modified from its original form on 05 Jan, 19:30
I think it is very shortsighted...
1 year ago

to remember how things "were" when this "mess" is nothing other than a progression of the very same mindset that exists today, and that being the two major parties...  The US of A is going to go to shyte not because of one political party as they both have their evils and severe short-sightedness.  It did not come out of mid-air, we perpetuated it.

1 year ago

""The US of A is going to go to shyte not because of one political party as they both have their evils and severe short-sightedness.  It did not come out of mid-air, we perpetuated it""

I think most of us agree with that, I know I do.

I do not think...
1 year ago

giving power back to the states is really going to do anything Allen.  The states need the Fed and the Fed needs the states...  The Fed has created a mess with a flawed foreign policy and funnels gazillions into these black holes.  The money needs to come from somewhere...  The states need money from the Fed...  It is a failed marriage..

 

1 year ago

I love agreement.



But is it to late to right the ship?

We really need some people who are fair players.  Fairness lacks in everything that comes out of Washington.  Unfortunately, they do more harm to citizens then good these days. 

I can't figure out where any of their heads are at.  Oh, nevermind, I know where their at...yup.

1 year ago

 The Fed has created a mess with a flawed foreign policy and funnels gazillions into these black holes.


I agree with that on many different levels of funneling in mind. 

Homey...
1 year ago

your eyes keeping pointing to Washington but what about local?  You honestly do not think this only takes place at the Capitol, right?

1 year ago

Not really, maybe here in discussion it seems that is the only way they point.

Local, I am in their face constantly (physically in their face) on every level from town to Trenton.  I have better control and more options of reason locally.  I think I actually have over these years made some marks in that area.  Truly.

Officials
1 year ago

at all levels need to live under the microscope, need to be held accountable at all times.  But this has to be done from the average schmuck on the street, you and me.  But as long as we are too busy pursing our picket fences and chasing our dreams - not taking the time out to make sure they are doing their job - do we allow them to stray off and do fukked up things.

Homey
1 year ago

I am aware that you are active, sadly many more need to be and they are not...

1 year ago

Tom, you obviously posted while I was.  I do take the time.  Actually, I give it too much of my time.  I know others don't and it makes me even more aggressive in doing so.  Years and years now faithfully day in and day out.

People are lucky to have someone so dedicated.  Not to pat my back, but it is truth.  I am always on it asking questions, and not hairy leg ones at that.

1 year ago

You know Tom, a year ago I would have come back with a response to what your saying, but I guess I've finally come to the realization that I just don't know anymore, what I believe in and what is today's reality is so far separated. I guess that's why I stand so firm on single issues (like gun-control as an example) I have just become so burned out on politics as a whole, I know that I am now in the minority on many issues, so now Im just along for the ride

1 year ago

STOP POSTING WHILE I AM


You know you're absolutely right that most people don't participate.  In all honesty, it doesn't take everyone.  It's harder as one voice, but still there is one voice they have to answer to.  Especially if you have a big mouth and a big "Jersey" tude like someone I know.

1 year ago

Allen, always believe what you believe.  I know you mean no harm to another and that reason sits behind it.  Take some time, enjoy the ride.  Never give up or in though.   I know you won't.

Nothing...
1 year ago

is static in our universe - it all evolves.  We can keep the roots of our beliefs - the glue that keeps us together as a loving family and a functioning society.  But maybe we need to say "it was nice, but it no longer fits" to some of our other "beliefs".  We hold onto beliefs or what we feel our founding fathers might have meant, but have evolved past that.  We are no longer small towns - countries that only understand one tongue.  A person farts in small town suburbia and a person in China can watch it milliseconds later.  We have evolved, space and time are no longer great divides.  We need to think outside of our small boxes...

1 year ago

You know I spent the better part of this week making phone calls to congressional offices.  Of course, I am only speaking with staffers, but it is amazing how you can tell who is who and what is what through many of them.  Both sides.  Some very decent and some just suk big time.  I try to keep my cool and keep it somewhat professional (For lack of a better word).  Screaming at them does not help any situation.  It is hard though and sometimes I find myself saying things I probably shouldn't.  Or at least saying them in a way I probably shouldn't.

One day my family will find me dead on the floor from a massive brain seizure with a phone by my ear.  They'll be like damn, we told her not to care so much.  Frustrating with very little satisfaction.

1 year ago

Tom, You did it again damn it.



You are right in the sense that our worlds combine in a much greater way then ever before.  For better or worse.  Adjustments in some things are reasonable.

I think though, it is good to stay true to yourself.  I have no problem with people who have different ideas from myself.  It's good to have difference but only if the best parts of each side can meet to become one.  Without some flexibility nothing is accomplished.

So staying true to your beliefs is good when you do so with reasonable expectation of some slight alterations from time to time.




This post was modified from its original form on 05 Jan, 20:18
1 year ago

Blanket legistlation does not work well when each state has its own unique issues.  Allen



I was reading through this thread again and picked up on the above line from Allen which I overlooked before.  I think this is a very true statement.  One size does not fit all.  Every state is unique in certain areas and legislation that suits New Jersey may not suit Alabama. 

I think the bottom line for me is fairness or a reasonable fairness.   We just don't have that any more.  Too many want what they want without compromise to others needs.  A government that doesn't serve all the people doesn't deserve to serve any of us.

I know that not everyone is happy with everything that passes through.  But when you are as divided a country as we are and half are always unhappy and for the most part rightfully so.  Something has to give.  There must be a point of reason.


1 year ago

I say let's return to the constitutional days of dueling with 2 shots at 50 paces.  Or even earlier when ther were rapier challenges in the palace. Or the "feather in your cap" for a laudable achievement. And right now, no one would have any feathers. Just kidding.  Levity.  Sorry.



This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jan, 8:02
1 year ago

""Anybody that voted `yes' in the House should be concerned" about primary challenges in 2014, she said."

In a certain way though, I think that if they DIDN'T vote yet, they should be equally concerned.  Tea Party doesn't always get its way.  Case has been made for Obstructionism. 

1 year ago

"If you want less government, reduce the military for starters...  I mean, if we are going to use the big and small argument all the time, why not start there?"

  

Yes,  Military (and some of  its contractors) is a place to start.  Should we continue to be the "Policeman" to the world?

1 year ago

LA Times noted that a conservative majority from the south quickly approved disaster aid for states in the south while the same people are dragging their feet for people in the Notheast.

"Rep. Peter T. King (R- N.Y.) accused his party of "cavalier disregard" toward New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey, a potential 2016 GOP presidential contender, lashed out at what he called the "toxic internal politics" of his party's House majority, noting that Republicans had speedily approved support for storm relief in "Louisiana, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Missouri, …"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gop-analysis-20130106,0,787706.story

1 year ago

John, Good article.  Interesting and containing many truths quite possibly.  I have the list of no votes or those who just didn't give the time to vote at all.

I am trying to get it to post in an organized way, but it goes all over the place.  I will try to put it together and post, it's an interesting list.

I spoke to every one of their offices during this past week.  I plan to call the "No" (nothings) first thing tomorrow to thank them for their support and compassion.  I anticipate some lively conversations.   This was but a tiny part of the bigger request for assistance.  I will be cordial and will also try to be persuasive because this is important to the region.  If we don't get help.  There is no other money source.



This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jan, 17:42
1 year ago

You know just to clarify.  I am totally against bolstering the amount for relief for matters not related to Sandy.  With that I agree wholeheartedly.  That is one of the biggest problems with Washington and money.  They try to attach this to that so they can get more.  It's wrong.

What is also wrong was for them not to vote on the immediate need until almost 70 days later.

Immediate need first, crapola next.

It's really simple...

1 year ago

I also would like to add that my feelings on this are not on a personal level.  I am not expecting any payment other than that from my own private insurance for damages, less deduction and stuff they won't cover.

It is personal in the sense of the region involved, the way it went down and that it has never been this way before.  I do believe much of what went down was because of the region involved.  Just smells that way...

1 year ago

 I heard something like only a third of the money would actually go toward Sandy victems while the rest was attached pork spending, I dont have any links or data to support this, it was just one of the arguements I briefly heard while watchng the news

1 year ago

Suzanne, I have made mistakes about you in the past, but I believe I understand you much better now.

When a nation as big and as wealthy a ours refuses to come to the aid of their own during hard times, there is something seriously wrong. Something out of balance. A basic value that we no longer see or hold close. (Unless it happens to you.) Objectivity can be and will be the ruin of us all.

I have family in these places. I tried to relocate them. They refused. There is just too much of my families past there. One, a close Aunt is 89 years old this coming week. She won't leave, nor any of the decendants that come after her.

Sandy impacts lives much farther away than being there. Chris Christie was right. He will become a much better leader for the experience.

1 year ago

Suzanne, I have made mistakes about you in the past, but I believe I understand you much better now.  John


John, I am not sure if that's a good thing or bad

I would find it very difficult to leave New Jersey, when she is your blood, she is and you are true to her.  That spoken from a born Hudson County girl who graduated to Somerset County.  I love everything about this state, including the crappy parts of it.  It is what makes me ...  I am sure most people feel about their homes that way.

I first and foremost will always fight for her and for fairness.

Chris Christie is a good guy.  I don't really care how others see him.  He is Jersey and that is a good thing for me and ultimately a good thing for our country if you understand what that means.


1 year ago

Allen, there is an awful lot of wishes included in this and I might add harming a serious relief need.

Disgusting....

1 year ago

My family settled Duchess county New York in 1636. Over time Duchess county became too small to hold all of us and we scattered all over the country. We still come home when there is need. Even so the lot of us are reluctant to leave the places we have come to call home.

I think with understanding comes good things. All we have to do after that is stand fast.

I think Chris Christie is a good guy. He can become president though I have no idea why anyone would want the job.

1 year ago

My fathers side of the family have been in New York (Hells Kitchen area) and New Jersey (Hudson County area)  since the Revolutionary War.  They fought in it, they fought in the Civil War, they have fought in every war.  Our roots grow deep...

I don't want Christie to run for President.  I honestly want him to stay here with us in Jersey.  We really need him here.  I realize he would benefit the country I love, but Jersey will fall back into the mess if he goes.  He still has much to do.

1 year ago

Sue, Your family and mine have chewed on much of the same dirt over time. We live in a place now where children are told not to put things in their mouths although our ancestors used to taste the dirt to see if it would grow anything. Their ambition was to make roots grow deep.

If Christie remained governor for 30 years it will still fall to the next generation and revert. I know the history too.

There are benefits, and there are benefits. We are not talking about food stamps here. Try not to be selfish.



This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jan, 19:03
1 year ago

If that was their ambition and I don't disagree then in worked.  They are deep and loyal.

However, I am a realist and it is true eventually it falls to the next.   I have pretty much convinced my daughter that this is not the place to plan a life.  I don't mean that negatively but truth is truth.

Even I know in retirement I must change my stars.  I figure Jersey has me for probably 20 more years or so.  I plan to help make her better so maybe my daughter and those like her could call her home and retire here.  This is a harsh place to survive when not so wealthy. 

1 year ago

There are benefits, and there are benefits. We are not talking about food stamps here. Try not to be selfish.


Would you kindly explain.  I think I know what you are saying, but am not positive.

1 year ago

If the whole country needs him.....you won't be able to keep him.

Support him instead. Even he won't understand. It's a wave that one rides. Not an agenda.

1 year ago

Thought so...

I don't like selfish and I will work on it   I can't promise you any movement in that thought. 


I have to confess when he was deciding this go round about running or not.  I very actively did my best to make that not happen.

1 year ago

I think the population is starved even though others say they are spoiled. We have this benefit, and that benefit and there is always some example of a destitute person trying to game the system in order to keep from being productive. There are enough examples to at least make this a half truth. It was the "system" that makes people what they are and then complains about them.

To "fix" it we all have to become human. Not individual CEO's who always try to make their "labor force" more profitable by constantly eliminating the bottom 10% of the employee's.

You don't do this with the animals on your place. Why should we as a nation do this to other people? Don't they have the same right to find joy as you have?

I think so.

This is an old argument that I had with another.

How do you feel about it?

1 year ago

I think there needs to be a measure in place for those in serious need for very real reasons and for those who game the system.  I do not respect the users, they do too much harm to the very people who are in need and to those that support them.

I know people who are users and they love what they do.  They choose the life.  They selfishly take from those in need by way of others not wanting to support them by way of their actions.

I would love to actively see some real monitoring of it.

I don't blame the CEO's for the users of this world.  Truly, undeserving people (and there are some) who are just that and even the richest of the rich should not be forced to contribute to such selfishness.

I may sound harsh but I do not like people who make no effort, do not contribute and reap many rewards for such poor citizenship.

With that said, it would be nice if corporations were more friendly to their employees.

And yes, we have created the beast...



This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jan, 19:51
1 year ago

Every place is a harsh place to survive when "not so wealthy'. What allows people to survive is the ability to define"Wealth" for themselves. Don't regulate this. Persicution always comes afterward.

1 year ago

Can you sit in your yard and watch a hunter, wolf, coyote, eagle, owl, hawk, falcon take away something you have fed for a year?

I am as conflicted as you by people and their foibles.

Animals have taught me as much as you. At what point do we just watch, and when should we act, and most importantly ...why?

1 year ago

John excellent question.  Stated in a way that I can totally relate to.  Although, I hate to sit by and watch, many times you must. 

Everyone deserves a shot at life, but when your choices (repeated time and time again) put you in harms way.   Sometimes you have to let the chips fall where they may.

Everyone deserves a chance at survival and sometimes reality must overcome kindness and generosity.

Does that make sense?

I know what you mean and I know what I mean.  It is hard to put into words.

1 year ago

It is just a thing where the experience of it is so much more profound than the story.

There are times when I can't sit and watch. I have been lucky with "balance" but not always right.

None of us are.

1 year ago

There are many times I don't sit and watch.  Especially a friend.  I know it is right though in my mind, so I don't stop it,  but my heart makes me cowardly look away.

1 year ago

No one has the answers all the time that are right ones.  We are what we are and we are imperfect.  That is okay though.  I believe that.  As long as true intent is there the errors in judgement are not as hard to take as full out failure.

1 year ago

Sadly, that is not always so. There can be magnificent failure, or just quiet succumbing. It is always up to us. I do understend the principle you are reaching for. We tend to judge others and over look our own faults in this place. There is a danger here.

1 year ago

I don't know.  Is there a time when what one may perceive as judgement, is just simply being reality, the truth.  How much, how many years, how many chances???

Sometimes what is, is...

Good or bad...



This post was modified from its original form on 07 Jan, 20:25
1 year ago

There are always chances. They are just not always for us to make. We can miss opportunities this way.

If we hold ourselves totally responsible.........we will be.

1 year ago

Not all do though...

Some have more opportunites than imagined and continually pass them up.

What to do?

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