Lou, love and peace to you
Dian, I have 2 copies of Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee. I would like to give you my unread copy as a gift to you. If you'd like it, please do mail me with your address.
The ancestors of my family come from the lands on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean. I haven't found out what all of them have or have not done for the relationship of the different people. I know only of those which were told to me. I know that some my maternal grandmother's people refused to speak to her even unto them passing over because she married my grandfather the "dirty redman". Even s few of his people did not approve of the marriage, but they realized over time that thinking that way also hurt them.
My wife's grandmother didn't want any of her children telling anyone that they were indian and she would take a switch to them if they did. Her way of thinking was her mom's doing. when the men of her clan came by she would tell her daughter to take the babies and hide with them under the bed. While her children hid she would provide food to the men and light their somking pipes.
A portion of people acting like "savages" do so because they were taught to think that way. While others basically absorb these traits from the surroundings, the people they come in contact with. Children see it at school, on the playground and on television. They eventually choose either to follow the crowd or be an individual who determines which path to follow. Our children have had to make choices but we also let them know that to hate people because of the race they in turn would be hating themselves of their ancestry.
To decide who is a savage would be somewhat hard because where do we start and where do we end the process. We each must choose our own path by learning as close to all the truth as we can find and making a judgement based on the truth and what is right.
I can see acts as brutal, savage, and inhuman or I can try to be the person that Creator would walk and talk with. We must choose for ourselves. Peace and Blessings.
I have Irish in me too! but I really don't know much about the culture as maybe I should but I was brought up Cherokee/Shawnee and that's how I think of myself.
Anne I will check into that book when at the library.
I loved your response. I have also read Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee and I know what you mean about the emotions that run high.
You are quite right to say that Native American Indians respect Mother Earth, it comes through in all of their teachings, if only we had done the same way back before all the deforestation, pollution and near extinction of certain species had occured.
There are many like us wishing to make the world a better place and petitions to "the powers that be" will come through, we just need to keep going until they come round to our way of thinking. Hopefully it will not be too late.
Have a wonderful day!
Love & Light
Just because a person decides to describe another as a savage does this mean that is it then? That they are savages because of that persons opinion? Labels are spread and caught on and before you know it that label almost becomes fact amongst others. It is often that when people do not understeand something/somebody they can become 'scared' of it/him and so go on the defensive and slander/name call, etc. Sadly many Europeans misunderstood and were 'scared' of the Natives of America and things turned very ugly.
I see myself as a caretaker of Mother Earth, I want to help her flourish and look after the creatures that live upon Her. I fight to help through petitions, letter writings to 'big bods', etc. I believe that the Native Americans totally respected Mother Earth, only took what they needed and cared deeply for all nature. If I had people forcing me to adopt ways that I did not think was fair or kind or respectful or was forced to live a way that I felt was wrong, then I would stand up and answer back, fight back. Because they did not look or live the way that Europe's 'society' were at the time they were classed as a 'wrong' sort.
I am at present readying Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown and the emotions that have ran through me so far at the disgusting and inhumane way the Native Americans were treated, lied to, tricked, imprisioned, killed, etc. are feelings of great sadness and anger.
If being a savage means that you care, respect, love and dare to fight back when your attacked, then Native Americans should of been very proud of themselves.
Wise words from Running Fox.
I am not sure if any of my ancestors went to the America's - I am originally from the UK and am now currently living in the Rainbow Nation of South Africa.
I have to say that I am ashamed of what happened all those years ago and what ignorant people have done to other people from another nation/culture. Some of it done from ignorance, a lack of education with regards to another person's ways, beliefs, some done out of being afraid and not understanding.
Many years ago in England people were frightened of Celts and the Scots - hence they built a wall.
I would never have said that any Native American Indian Nation were "savage", they were a people fighting for their land, their way of life, their beliefs and a right to be.
I think a lot of problems have been caused by misunderstanding.
I am grateful that this group exists to help educate and to help people to understand.
Love & Light
I don't consider my ancestors as savages. My ancestors were well learned and respectful. I think the label savages were put us because there was no understanding of us and as history can prove, no willingness to understand us and our culture. Because we were different does not mean we were savages. I detest that term in relation to us. But if that word savage meant caring for mother, grandmother and grandfather and all around me, then yes, you may call me a savage too!
The word Religion to me means man-made. How one believes is faith in the creator in a spiritual way and is between him/her and their creator and how one walks on their path in this life.
This post was modified from its original form on 07 Apr, 6:18
Words and their meanings often change over time. When I was young and someone said something was heavy most of the time it meant something weighed a lot and the word gay meant someone was happy and carefree.The word savage is the same.
When the Europeans invaded what is now known as the America's the inhabitants of the invaded lands were called savage. Anyone may debate this but a visit to any library will quickly show this is how my ancestors were known.They were also called heathen and godless. This came from ignorance and in these modern times most people know we are not savages,heathen or godless and most of us were never any of these. I like this thread because it is creating meaningful dialog and it offers me an opportunity to teach. When it comes right down to it almost all living higher forms of life here on Mother Earth are at times savages according to some definitations of the word..
Your posting sounded good, yet i question whether or not what you rendered concerning the word "savage" was of Truth or of someone's "imag"ination.......
Main Entry: 1sav·age
Etymology: Middle English savage "untamed, wild," from early French salvage, savage, (same meaning), from Latin salvaticus, an altered form of earlier silvaticus "of the woods, wild," from silva "woods, forest"
1 : not tamed <savage beasts>
2 : very cruel and unrestrained <a savage beating>
3 : not cultivated : WILD <the savage wilderness>
4 : not civilized <savage customs>
- sav·age·ly adverb
- sav·age·ness noun
Word History In ancient times woods, forests, and other wild areas were frightening to many people who lived in towns and cities. Dangerous animals, like wolves and bears, lived in the wilds, and many humans who lived there were probably thought to be dangerous, too. The Latin word for "woods, forest" was silva, and from this came the adjective silvaticus, meaning "of the woods, wild." Later, the Latin word silvaticus came to be spelled salvaticus, and this spelling appeared in the French of the Middle Ages as savage, meaning "wild, untamed." Eventually it took on other meanings that city people associated with the forests: "cruel, brutal, fierce." All of these meanings were carried over into English when the word was borrowed as savage.
In any case True knowledge is experiential and in spite of the spiritual savages, Creation's Genius(nature) still offers a seeker of Light the opportunity to experience and receive that which will allow one to "see" that "a simple and spiritual life is the only life that will survive".......
Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(darkness) that is of this world and it's systems of religion, for "the WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one" ineed and Truth.......
I believe the question, "Who are the real savages", was answered in the original posting.
As for me i but desire The Will of The Great Spirit(GOD, Father, Creator,,,,).......
If one wishes to "label" such a desire they are free to do so.
Father Help! and HE does.......
Thankfully Truth is never ending.......
I am A Savage
The so-called "savage", indigenous people called The Hopi await the return of their "True White Brother" and as The Hopi believe, so it is that:
A simple and spiritual life is the only life that will survive!
A belief which is in perfect harmony with The Life example and Teachings of The Messiah.
And it is very important to realize that The Teachings of The Messiah were given Him by The Only True GOD, Father of ALL, for The Messiah testified, "The words that I speak are not My words, they are the words of The Father WHO sent Me".
I have visited with The Hopi people and sadly, in this day and age, "progress" is overcoming them ;-( Through the prior years there were many who rejected, and spiritually fought against "progress", and yet since the last of The Hopi elders who resisted "progress" passed away, "progress" has had it's evil destructive, perverse ways with them ;-(
Yet, there is hope!
For Miracles do happen!
Hope is there would be those who experience The Miracle that is receiving "a love of The Truth" for they will no longer have their portion with those who are destroying and perverting Creation.
Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(progress) that is of this wicked world and it's systems of religion, for "the WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one"(1John5:19) indeed and Truth.
And Truth is never ending.......
Who Are The Real Savages?
Those who are of, and in, what is known as the "civilized" world once called, and some yet call, the "uneducated", indigenous peoples "savages".
Consider that the most dangerous savage is the one who wars against Light, Truth, Love, Peace, Hope, Simplicity, etc., all that is of The GREAT Spirit.
Such a "savage" seeks to kill the GOD conscious spirit within man and fill the void with a love for the things that are of this wicked world, a love for the self-life, and a love for the lies that are of this world's systems of religion ;-(
And yes, "atheism", "drugs", "sexual perverseness", "alcohol", "greed", etc. , all have savages who follow their religious ways ;-( Ways that lead mankind along the broad way of destruction and death ;-(
"atheism", "drugs", "sexual perversion", "alcohol", "greed", "humanism", .etc.
Not "religion" you say?
Sadly, they are. For one's "god", supreme being, great spirit, etc., is that which, what, or whom, someone serves. That which you serve, is that which you worship, and that which you worship is your "religion".
Yes, even "atheists" have "religion" and worship their 'god', and no matter what it's name may be, they "see" their "god" every time they look in a mirror.
Most all systems of religion are self-serving! Sadly, in the darkness that encompasses the religious ways of this world, hides the "god" of all "systems of religion", he who is "the god of this world", "the father of lies", "d"evil author of death, destruction, damnation and every evil work.
And all who follow the way's of death and destruction serve, and are held captive by, the spirit of death, as they but serve "time" in the prison that is this wicked, evil world.
And the primary tool used of the "god's" in the "religious systems" that are of this world?
Oh, how they worship those colored marks written on a dead tree!
Capitalism is the primary buzzword used by those religious systems. And so it is that, that which was once called "covetousness(greed)" was then called "materialism" and today?
Sadly today, those of this world's "religious systems" call "covetousness", "good management".
Question? Why is it that 100 years ago, in so-called "progressive societies", the "citizens" of such societies had 10 needs and 100 wants, and today they have 100 needs? and 1000 wants?
And what of the so-called "progress" they have made?
They progressively destroy and pervert Creation(land, air, water, creatures, Light, Truth, Peace, Love, Hope, .etc.) and such destruction and perversion has multiplied exponentially as time passes by.
"Spiritual savages", oh my, how they have increased!
Yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!
For Miracles do happen!
Hope is there would be those who experience The Miracle that is receiving "a love of The Truth"!
"The Way" is Spirit, "The Truth" is Spirit, "The Life" is Spirit, all that is "Good" is Spirit!
And mankind can not systematize Spirit.
At best, mankind can only answer The Call of GOD, believe, receive and follow in obedience, seeking above all else "Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done".
Thankfully when GOD called Adam answered.......
Yet what of those who came after Adam?
How many have answered GOD's Call?
And today, "Who will answer The Only True GOD's Call"?
"Come out of her, MY people......."
"Come out" of this world and it's systems of religion.
James testified, "Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of Our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained by the world."
And all other "religion"?
Simply, impure and defiled ;-(
Systems of "religion" are of this world and are Anti-Messiah!