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Groups > DestinyBelievers > Discussions > Topic: The Doctrine of Divine Predestination
Topic: The Doctrine of Divine Predestination

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Rajan S.	The Doctrine of Divine Predestination October 13, 2004 6:08 AM The Doctrine of Divine Predestination suggests that we, all living and non-living, the movable and immovable are His tools, the means to carry out His purpose. In the larger Plan of life, of existence, the individual is insignificant and futile to His Will. Divine Predestination also confirms that the Absolute, God, is not arbitrary and capricious but just and loving. The idea of predestinating and active God induces in us a feeling of dependance on God. An intense intuition of the Will of God comes out here, in Job and in Paul: " Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, why hast thou made me thus?" We need to look and affirm that the whole Cosmic process as nothing more than the unfolding of a predetermined Plan, the unveiling of a ready-made scenario. We are not so much denying the unforeseeableness of human acts and those of living creatures, as affirming the meaning of Eternity, in which all the moments of the whole of time, past, present and future, are present in the Divine Spirit. The radical novelty of each moment of evolution in time is not inconsistent with Divine Eternity. The ideas of God's Plan are worked out through human instrumentality. If we are wise, we so act that we are 'instruments' in His hands. "Nothing exists save Thy Will. Thou alone art the Doer, and we (individuals) only Thy instruments." Judged by human standards, it is quite incomprehensible but when the curtain is lifted, so as to reveal the purpose of the Almighty, we realise that whatever we may desire, whatever we might hope to gain in this world or the next, does not really count anymore. Behind this world of space-time, interpenetrating it, is the creative purpose of the Absolute, God. We must understand that supreme design and be content to serve it. Every act is a symbol of something far beyond itself. [ send green star]
Lilly G.	October 27, 2004 11:02 AM That was very thought provoking! Lilly [ send green star] [ accepted]
Piret V.	Hello! October 28, 2004 1:08 PM i am new here. my name is Piret. you have a very lovely message group here and i really hope, i won`t disturbe it by contradicting with something. for i have sort of a problem in the same matter. you see, i spoke in haste today, i didn`t hear some people out because i thought i knew what they where talking about. in short, they hit a nerve and i gave them my mind (they did ask for it). in a nutshell, they thought that humans where the crown of the world and owned it all, and therefore should take care of it (the latter is of course a positive understanding). but that they, or we own it all, that oil is there, solely because we could use it, cats are there for stroking and etc. I belive that our abstract way of thinking makes us responsible for our actions but makes not us the owners. THEY said i was arrogant and intractable.. i mean, if oil was formed over millions of years and people learned thanks for their abstractive minds how to use it, how does it make the oil made for us?? it doesn`t make sence. anyway, their eyes hardened. i feel i owe them somehow.. i should have been nicer to them. you see, i strongly believe in some of my understandings, it makes sence to me. so i should have been nicer to them.. right? [ send green star] [ accepted]
Rajan S.	Dear Lilly and Piret October 31, 2004 8:34 AM Thank you for your posts. Dear Piret, While we as humans, are gifted with potentially higher consciousness, and can attain higher spiritual levels of consciousness by understanding abstract principles and laws of nature, unlike other living creatures inhabiting this beautiful Earth, possess a greater degree of 'instinctive consciousness'. Higher levels of human consciousness exhibit Divine qualities with an enhanced capacity to understand 'Laws of God' which are in addition to our understanding of the 'Laws of Nature'. While crude oil (raw material of petroleum products)is formed by process of nature, over a long period of time, and is of physical character, not so the spiritual conscious of woman/man, which is derived from 'Cosmic consciousness', where subtle truths are witnessed. The world is said to be a projection, emission of the Eternal order which is eternally present in the Divine wisdom. The World-soul is a partial expression of the Absolute, God. The Cosmic process is NOT a complete manifestation of the Absolute, God. No finite process can ever finally and fully express the Absolute, though this world is a living manifestation of the Absolute, God. This whole Universe owes its being to God and yet the forms of this Universe cannot express Him adequately. His absolute Reality is far above the appearance of things in space and time. "As the mighty air moving everywhere ever, abides in the etheric space, know thou that in the same manner all existences abide in Me" The space is the true universal, all-pervading infinite background on which the aerial phenomena take place, and its nature is stable and immutable, just as Air exists in space but it does not consist of space and has nothing essentially common with it. God causes things to exist on account of his wonderous power. God so completely transcends the universe that He is seperated from all worldly existences and is the "wholly other". While most people with humility understand what is stated, there are some who think that man is the 'enjoyer' and the 'crown' of the world and owns it all. One can only feel compassion for the person. You could only state the truths as you witness them. [ send green star]
Rajan S.	Dear Piret November 02, 2004 6:37 AM Your statement, "I belive that our abstract way of thinking makes us responsible for our actions but makes not us the owners" is very well expressed. It confirms that you are His instrument, and your actions are an expression of the divine within you, of which none is the owner. It also on the other hand expresses your 'Individuality', by accepting responsibility for your actions. [ send green star]
Piret V.	November 02, 2004 7:09 AM Dear Rajan, Thank you very much for your kind words! They really mean a lot. I´m sorry to say that i get easyly agitated when pressured at 'right' places and that leaves me often puzzeled. I try to understand, but too often my ego stands in the way, have seen past it sometimes, though that`s a good sign. I wish you all the goodness!! Piret [ send green star] [ accepted]
Mitchell F.	Predestination and free will. March 18, 2005 11:53 AM First of all,thanks for inviting me here. Having been raised a Christian,I had long struggled with these concepts,and allways ended with a question.How could that which is devine fail in his purpose of creating spiritual life in some cases and succeed in others,and then cast his failures into eternal torment? I understood that spiritual growth happens by making the right choices,and to make a choice we had to have a choice. There seemed no resolution to this concept untill, in studying Pythagoras,I understood the concept of transmigration,which means that the devine breath,the soul,is not subject to birth and death but passes at the end of a life from one body to another untill it is perfected. For me,this was the last piece of the puzzle.God remains devine and is not thwarted in his purpose.Individuals eventually fullfil the purpose for which we were designed,and I find myself at peace with God,and very much enjoying the fellowship of the good people here. Love and blessings to all! [ send green star] [ accepted]
Mike Y.	Hi Rajan March 20, 2005 2:06 AM I believe there is a path that we all follow and the paths are different as much as we are, but they all end up at the same place (unconditional love of the universe)namely God, now we can let our pre destined path easy or hard, the more we "let go and let God" in our lives and the more we die as it where to our own wills and desires and let God lead us the easier the journey, we yes are pre destined to complete the journey and we are guided along the way, but we do have God given choice to listen to God or go our own way, I also believe there are no accidents in God we come accross souls who help us and we help them on the journey, but in the thought of pre destination we can start saying we have no choice for it is pre destined, that makes us nothing but robots, but I believe we are indeed endowed with the gift of choice which path we take , the easy one or the hard one. Love and light to all (my humble 2cents worth) Mike [ send green star] [ accepted]
Terrie D.	Hello to all March 20, 2005 8:37 AM And thanks for inviting me to this group. It is indeed a very thought provoking subject which mirrors a great many of my own beliefs. I, too, feel that we are "sent" places and encounter people for reasons that are relevent to the life we are currently living, and have wondered if some encounters are due to unfinished business in previous lives, or to "set the stage" for a future life. I agree with Piret that we are not the "owners"; we are caretakers. Mother Earth doesn't mind judicious use of her gifts, but human nature seems to be pre-disposed to exploit to extinction with no attempt to replace what we've taken. A sad state of affairs for supposedly intelligent creatures. I look forward to reading the posts here, and will check back often. A blessed day to you all! Terrie J [ send green star] [ accepted]
Jo K.	Predestination March 20, 2005 9:38 AM Predestination is a concept that I am still trying to work out my beliefs concerning. I do not believe in accidents, everything does happen for a reason, but is that divine will or mere chance? I believe in free will, that the choices we make, the path we choose, lead us to different places. We cannot always see where that path will go, and often the scariest and hardest choice leads us to places of great joy, sorrow, enlightenment and growth. And growth, is often painful, but in hind sight, most decidedly worth it. Yet I also believe that the people we meet and the experiences we share are there for a purpose. As I start a new chapter in my life here in San Antonio, Texas, somewhere I never thought I would be, I look at the choices that brought me here and I wonder if I was lead here. I have faith that this is where I am supposed to be, although some days that faith is stronger than others. [ send green star] [ accepted]
Rajan S.	Dear Mitchell March 22, 2005 8:20 AM Thank you for your post. Truly stated in your post, I wish to add, The future of the Soul is not finally determined by what it has felt, thought, and done in this one earthly life. The Soul would acquire merit and advance to life eternal. Until the union with the timeless Reality is attained, there will be repeated form of life which will give scope to the individual Soul to acquire merit and attain life eternal. Non-being, if it existed in itself diametrically opposed to being, would be completely destroyed. [ send green star]
Rajan S.	Dear Terrie March 24, 2005 7:33 AM Thank you for your valuable post and for being here, with us. Only to add to your Wisdom, Life is a conflict between Light and Darkness. The former makes for release and the latter for 'rebirth'. Only to state a Spiritual Truth, that those who are lost in the night of ignorance are subject to rebirth, and those who live in the day of illumination and tread the path of knowledge, of righteousness obtain release from rebirth. The law of Karma is not external to the individual. The judge is not without, but within. The law of Karma prevails in the world manifestation and temporary existence, where our deeds lead us to higher or lower stations, in the world of time. 'Our activities, inspired by the Divine within us cannot ever be wrong'. Aristotle says, 'Nous is never wrong'. The liberated Spirit conforms spontaneously to ethical rules. [ send green star]
anonymous	. May 09, 2005 8:49 AM Hello Rajan, Thank you for the invitation. Yes I believe in predestination. I believe everything in the Word. Love and Blessings Infinitely Joanne [report anonymous abuse] [ accepted]
Holly R.	predestination May 10, 2005 5:18 AM I don't buy into this notion completely.. I can only call it as I see it. I find most explanations of the Cosmic 'Why', a bit too finite. So far, in my life I have observed that both the material and subtle dimensions of consciousness, conform to the natural laws of the universe. Including, the laws of motion, the laws of matter, and laws of evolution, laws of applied force, and the laws of light. Supreme consciousness shows me how, but it's my ego that is concerned with why.... and I am wary of the ego's objective. Life is it's own reason. OM Shanti Holly [ send green star] [ accepted]
Rajan S.	Dear Joanne May 10, 2005 9:06 AM We are truly fortunate with your participation, as I know you have a pure and clear perception of the the world, and your mind functions without errors, of prejudice. We are grateful to you. [ send green star]
Rajan S.	Dear Holly R. May 10, 2005 9:24 AM We are equally fortunate with your participation, and thank you for your valuable post. I would only add, The external happenings, the pain in the world does not defile the inner being. The discontent and sadness which we feel now and then, is because we erronously identify ourselves with our psycho-physical vehicle (mind and body). The individual ego makes a confusion between the self and the not-self. The true inner being, on the other hand, does not suffer because it does not identify itself with any of the events, happenings to which our 'mind and body' are subject. [ send green star]
Holly R.	May 10, 2005 5:02 PM namaskaras to you Rajan You are so right on the money with that last observation... In my heart of hearts, I require no explanation, I require no reason, I require no descriptions of the Truth... In that place, I am the Truth. OM Shanti holly [ send green star] [ accepted]
Mitchell F.	Inner being. May 10, 2005 5:04 PM Dear Rajan, Your words about inner being remind me of a time in my life when I had managed to dissassociate my inner being from my outer,to turn of my feelings.It was a time of objectivity,as if I were seeing myself and my life from someplace else,a time of visions and intuative knowledge,but it became a time of unmotivation,for lack of a better word,and I found that I needed my passions to keep me motivated,at least in this life. We feel by comparison.We know joy because we have known sorrow.We work because we fear poverty.We love because we fear lonliness.We may not be "of this world",yet while we are in the world we are subject to the things of this world,and can only escape them temporarily.I know that I'm a little of topic but would like to hear your thoughts and the thoughts of those other wise folk here on this matter. Peace and light, Mitch. [ send green star] [ accepted]
Angela M.	predestination July 03, 2005 10:15 AM Hi people ! I just wanted to give my opinion on this interesting topic. My belief is that not everything is predestined; I think there are some specific situations in our lives, that are meant to happen no matter the different paths we eventually choose in our lives..... so, what do you think of it ?? [ send green star] [ accepted]
Rajan S.	Dear Angela M July 07, 2005 6:38 AM Thank you for being here, and we welcome you to this Group. In reply to your post, I would say, that a blind belief that every act and consequence of every individual, is predestined would be unfounded, an illusion. Instead, I would say every individual Consciousness assigns appropriate thought in every individual and a consquential action. We are expected to make every effort to purify our Consciousness, such that we perform actions that are noble, ethical. It is the development of individual Consciousness that is of prime importance. Every individual must try to further and co-operate with the Divine within her/him, instead of denying and opposing it. If she does so, she will change from an essentially determined to a determining factor. She must not allow her lower nature to be the cause of a confusion and fall from the greater truth of her being. If she sees or witnesses the truth, then she must act, not from selfish ends, but as a Conscious instrument of God. [ send green star]
Sarvo P.	Rajan you're very kind to invite me. July 31, 2005 12:56 PM I was just blocked from another group for being too outspoken. I warn you. I will quote from Bhagavad-gita and praise the powers of the maha mantra. [ send green star] [ accepted]
Sarvo P.	The Gita says there are 5 basic elements. July 31, 2005 1:00 PM Pakriti, purusha, jiva, kala and karma. All are eternal except karma. So we are the architect of our own destiny. Pakriti = material energy - purusha = supreme being - jivas = all the individual living entities - kala = time - karma = activity. The proof of God's love for us is that we have free will. [ send green star] [ accepted]
Nancy D.	The Plan August 03, 2005 3:35 PM I do think there is a divine, overall Purpose for the planet, the solar system, the galaxy, the universe and so on, as well as a Plan for the present era to help fulfill the portion of that purpose that pertains to Earth. However, the term "predestination" smacks too much of Calvinism for me, so I really can't go there. At the same time, I think the divine Life is very much dependent on the forms It creates and employs to use to help reach Its objectives, so predestination doesn't resonate for me, even without Calvin. We have free will, as humans, even though animals and the other lower kingdoms have to pretty much follow their instincts. So it may be that "predestination" would be a valid concept for those kingdoms, but definitely not for Humanity. Namaste, Nancy D. [ send green star] [ accepted]
Rajan S.	Dear Sarvo, Nancy D. August 05, 2005 7:56 AM Thank you for being here, in this Group, as well. We do value your opinion very much. We are trying earnestly to view as much of the Whole as truly as possible. 'Predestination' had been much in discussion for thousands of years, in the past. All we can really confirm that His Will be done. Human choice seems to be a means to carry out His Will. [ send green star]
Mike Y.	too all from me September 18, 2005 5:42 PM [ send green star] [ accepted]
Sarvo P.	Mike as usual September 18, 2005 5:57 PM *You warm my heart!* [ send green star] [ accepted]
Mike Y.	Dear Brother Savo September 19, 2005 12:51 AM not only do you warm mine also but i feel your careing loveing learning spirit, even though many of us are far apart in physical terms I feel the spirits in my soul, and when you pass a loveing spirit on your journey you kiss and hug and share in the spirit for tomorrow we will all be truly one love and light Mike [ send green star] [ accepted]
Rajan S.	Thank you Mike September 19, 2005 8:55 AM Thank you Mike for your post. Your presence is always a brightness! [ send green star]