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Utah Not Recognizing Gay Marriage
7 months ago

Utah officials have announced that the state will not recognize gay marriage licenses that were issued before the Supreme Court halted the practice on January 6. Marriage licenses were issued to same-sex couples following a judge's decision saying that Utah's ban on same-sex marriage was unconstitutional.

"Based on counsel from the Attorney General's Office regarding the Supreme Court decision, state recognition of same-sex marital status is ON HOLD until further notice," said the governor's Chief of Staff Derek Miller in a letter to cabinet officials.

"Please understand this position is not intended to comment on the legal status of those same-sex marriages– that is for the courts to decide. The intent of this communication is to direct state agency compliance with current laws that prohibit the state from recognizing same-sex marriages."

Over 1,000 marriage licenses were issued between the initial ruling and the Supreme Court's actions.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2014/01/08/utah-not-recognizing-gay-marriages-n1773723

Doesn't matter at this point in history!
7 months ago

Abortion totally legal or totally banned? Homo "marriage" legally allowed, or not?

The point is we are on a downhill slide and picking up speed. Either way, a significant portion of the population approvevs of these things, that's the point. The degeneracy is boundless even if the laws forbid these practices.

7 months ago

Elizabeth, thank you for responding to my thread on Utah.  It got buried this morning LOL!!       Read this:

Federal Government Will Recognize Utah Same-Sex Marriages, Eric Holder Announces

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/10/utah-same-sex-marriage_n_4576033.html

7 months ago

Government workers have a healthcare plan where they will cover same sex couples but will not cover heterosexual couples.   Imagine that.

The majority of Americans still believe that marriage is between one man and one woman.   I'm at the point where I simply don't care anymore.   Our country is undergoing so many changes that I can't keep up with everything.

7 months ago

I sometimes have nightmares dreaming that one of my great grandchildren are going to come and visit their old Nana and say, "Nana, I brought someone with me....I want you to meet my husband, Billy, the goat."  

Seinfeld:   "Not that there's anything wrong with that...."

7 months ago

Elizabeth and Diane, I hear what you are saying.  Diane, how can Holder make that decision?  Does it not require that the Congress (both sides) pass a law?  I didn't know that the DOJ had legislative privileges; at least the Consitition doesn't provide for them to have that power.  I cannot understand the audacity of that man and his boss.  Neither are in a position that is responsible for legislation.  Time for them to be removed and the sooner the better.

What has happened, Diane and Elizabeth, is that we have been battered so much regarding so many different areas that they are pushing from all directions and it forces our Congressmen/women and the voters to settle for things they might not like so they can deal with the bigger issues.  I wish I could not care; I have moments when I don't and then I think about how I still have a responsibility to my grandchildren to leave this Country as well or better off than when it was handed to me.  So how can I give up...some days it is sure easy and almost a relief but then the need to be responsible takes over.  

Look at the mess in Colorado with legalized marijuana.  There are over 70 different varieties and most of them are as potent and have as bad affects as meth does; worse in that the residue stays in the body up to 2 weeks longer than meth per use.  

7 months ago

Did I really post that comment above?   tee hee   Well, it IS Friday Night in America!

7 months ago

Shuddering and shivering.  That ... no words.  Your comment was not there when I posted or I would have had to comment (or not).  Oh Diane, that is so funny and now I will have real nightmares.  LOL  No, I have had family friends that have not had to deal with gay marriage, but they have a son that came to them and told them he was gay; at least 4 different families.  I admired the way they came together as a family and remembered the one rule that is so important, I believe, love the person (my preference) but not what they are doing.  It applies to so much in our lives besides just gay/lesbians.  

But oh my gosh, Billy, the goat?  Now that is great.

Re Marijuana
7 months ago

Well, like everybody else, I tried marijuana in the early 1970s. I did not get sick or super stoned or mentally ill from this old fashioned herb. Just a bit happy and loose and then very hungry and then fell asleep. Needless to say, I didn't drive or anything.

I have heard that over the past several years, the superhybrids are, or at least can be, crazy-making, as you say. Gee Whiz. What a demented society!

7 months ago

Elizabeth, I would not have know about this if I had not attended an in-service training regarding drugs and drug addiction.  Our facilitator showed us actual examples of CAT Scans and MRI's from people that were abusing both marijuana and meth and the results a week later and it was so disturbing to see that the new marijuana sold today and used today (all 70 varieties) is so much different than the marijuana of the 60's, 70's and 80's.  

I will have to admit that I have never tried it; working in the medical profession I saw too much of what happens with any drug abuse and just decided I didn't need to have this as a problem.  Then again, I don't add sugar to my tea or coffee, either.  LOL  I realize that that is not the case for all and it depends a lot on our background even friends.  I know of a lot of my peers that tried it and like you, Elizabeth, didn't take it to the extreme.   

My only concern is that people today be very careful as it is not what they might be expecting.

7 months ago

I'm an old fuddy duddy like Linda, I have never tried it for the simple reason that it was illegal.  I have never been a rule breaker.   I'll soon turn 65 and I've never hd a speeding ticket so that should tell you all you want to know about me.   However, my children tried it and I'm sure I reacted like a dinosaur when I found out....it was their personal safety that as a mother I felt responsible to address....we actually laugh about it today.  

Being raised in a miliary family, we were brought up to respect the law .... period.   My father taught me how to drive and I can remember to this day when he said, "Diane, if you have an accident it will more than likely be your fault so listen to me.....never tailgate and never speed.    Defensive driving will keep you alive."     I believed him.   He died at the age of 59 from cancer and that wa 32 years ago and I can still remember him saying to me...."we have laws for a reason."  

I don't have a problem with people smoking or taking drugs.   It is a personal choice and I can, in no way, get into someone's personal space.   However, I have grandchilden now and I cannot imagine them smoking pot because it is legal and it is "there" for them.    I guess I'll get the old fuddy duddy award from them but know this.....it's going to be very hard for this old Nana to keep her protective lips from moving.     

7 months ago

Diane, I respect the feeling about not getting into someone else's space in most cases.  However, seeing what drugs do to people and the collateral damage to those around them, I don't think I can keep silent any more about this.  If my grandchildren were to consider this I would not get all up in arms, but I would ask them to sit down with me and let me show them the facts and figures and the repercussions that I see as a result of drugs and drug addiction and ask them to consider this before they make their final decision.  I would also have them talk to a gentleman that I know that is a doctor and watched his daughter as she got into drugs and what happened to her mentally as a result.  It is serious and it is frightening what happens to the brain, alone.  Therefore I would ask them to consider all of this first before making any decisions.  I don't think I could just keep my mouth shut any more.  Now there are other areas where I could keep my mouth shut; areas where I may not agree with them but would not interfere; clothing styles, piercings, tatoos, etc.

Let me give people an example of why I can't not say something about drugs. There is a little boy that is one of two children in a case I currently have assigned to me.  The boys have one mother but each has a different father.  The oldest is 5 and the younger is 2 1/2.  The fathers aqre both incarcerated due to manufacture and sales of meth.  The mother is addicted and can't seem to get her act together.  We have worked with her for over a year now and tried to help her secure a job, housing, transportation and to get drug rehab and counseling.  We have worked with her regarding parenting classes, and just about every other thing imaginable.  The boys were taken and placed in her mother's care (grandmother) however, the grandmother had the children removed when the DHS caseworker and I discovered that the grandmother was into drugs herself and harboring a person that was being sought by the police for killing his girlfriend (you heard me, in a drug epsiode he killed his girlfriend).  So, the children were then placed in foster care where they have been for the past year and they are starting to show signs of improvement since they are in counseling.  The 5 year old acts out sexual behavior as come to find out he had anal gonorrhea at the time he was removed to foster care.  He is starting a new medication and so he is calmer now and the sexual acting out is not as often or pronounced.  He seems happier and now will sit next to me when I visit and talk to me and color in a coloring book with me.  The younger boy is gaining weight now and doing much better, also.  The boys love their foster parents and are bonding with them.  

Neither the grandmother or mother are making any strides to do those things set out for them to have the boys returned to them; they are both testing positive for drugs on random screening, neither has a job, etc.  They can't provide for themselves let alone the boys.  It is now at the end of the time and a decision has to be made and it is hard.  But what is best for the boys is what we will have to recommend to the judge.  And all of this due to the fact that all of these people that they should be able to love and know are protecting them have failed them; all because of drugs and their addiction.

To top it off, the grandmother is now filing suit against the Commonwealth, the DHS and individual caseworker, and all other (not me) associated with the case as she wants the boys back as she needs the Welfare money she would get for them; not even the real mother wants them back, but grandma is going to fight so she gets welfare and can get her drugs.

Now you know why I would have to talk to my grandchildren and make sure they understood where something as "harmless" as marijuana can lead them to real serious issues.

So please, people, think about this and consider that if you love your family members, it might be better to talk to them and encourage them to educate themselves to what they are about to do before they make the final decision.

Druggies
7 months ago

Linda, how much do you think this case of the 2 boys and the mother are costing the taxpayers? Maybe it's time to let them sink or swim. Of course the people in charge won't: it keeps the lucrative system going.

Yes, it's mandatory to not get hyperexcited when talking to children or grandchildren about drugs. A good start would be for them to see that the adults in their family do not take any mood altering drugs whatsoever, either. There really can be no distinction between legal and illegal mood drugs unless legal or illegality is the main issue for you.

A parent on prozac or Ativan or whatever is displaying the height of hypocrisy telling others that their illegal drugs are wrong but theirs are all right just because they were prescribed. There is no difference; they are showing the kids that they don't have to do the possibly hard work of getting to the bottom of their anxiety or depression. By the way, there are natural alternatives for such conditions.

7 months ago

Elizabeth, first, I don't care how much it costs the taxpayer.  These are little children, 5 and 2, that have no means or ability to protect themselves and it is our responsiblity to do that for them.  They could be any age under 18 and it is still our responsibility to be there to help them.  And if that means helping their parents, too, then we do that.  No child deserves to live in an environment where they are being abused or neglected.  So no, absolutely not would I find it best to let them sink or swim.  They did not ask to be born nor did they get a choice in who would be their parents; they should at least be able to rely on society to help them.


As for parents on Prozac or Ativan, if it is prescribed there is good reason and it is something that is needed.  They must be under doctor's care, too. Therefore it is not the same as parents that abuse drugs that are illegal and not prescribed for them.  Those parents on Prozac or Ativan or any other medication will be better able to be a parent than those that need this and do not get it.  Depression and extreme anxiety are real conditions and can be very difficult for those suffering from these conditions.  Medication and monitoring is beneficial and normally not given for extensive periods of time without just cause.  

Smoking marijuana should be monitored and prescribed by a physician as well and only for short periods of time.  

There is a reason drugs such as these and all others such be regulated and monitored and use of them or possession of them without a doctor's prescription is against the law, plain and simple.  And there is nothing hypocritical of a parent who is on medication legally instructing their children that they are not to use drugs illegally.  

I am concerned where you would feel that protecting children from abuse or neglect is keeping anyone in charge in a lucrative position.  I should explain that CASA is made up of people like myself that do this work free of charge. We are not paid a salary and CASA was started by a Judge in the State of Wasington that realized that the Court needs a person that is able to represent the child and report directly to the Court that is not part of the system.  A typical case requries 30-40 hours  of time a month and as I said, purely volunteer.  We do this because we believe the children need that extra voice that is not a paid attorney (GAL), a paid caseworker (DH or any other paid person that approaches the case from that particular position.  We work with these people and together we evaluate and make our recommendations; CASA's go directly to the Judge as we are the extra eyes and ears for the Judge as well as the advocate for the child.

Further, rehabilitating parents and getting them back in a position to be parents is worth every penny spent when it works and still worth it from the child's position as then we know for certain that the child is better off in adoption.  

Our laws are very strict; after years of experience it is always felt that if at all possible the children should remain with their parents.  And it is not my place or anyone else's place to judge the parents if we don't know fully why they are in this situation.  Yes, I see that the majority are there due to choice, but I also see that many mothers, especially, are appreciative of the help and the chance to change their lifestyle and when allowed this time and assistance they do have their children returned or in some cases never removed but supervised to get them on their feet.  That is worth the money.

It is much better for this to have happened, Elizabeth, than to have them on Welfare for the rest of their lives teaching their children how to work the entitlement system and for taxpayers to be paying their way forever.  We have way too many like that.  So yes, spending some money to help in this situation is much better spent where it is for a short period of time.  None of our cases last more than a year.  In that time either the parent(s) are helped and the children returned home due to the successful change in conditions or they are permanently removed and adopted; either way it is normally only 12 months.  That is a small amount if it saves lives; and it does.

Summary, well worth the money spent and no, no one is profiting from this other than changing lives for the better and preventing further damage.  And second, mind altering drugs that are monitored and prescribed with that consideration are acceptable and there is nothing hypocritical about a parent using them legally in talking to their child about the illegal drug use. 

Elizabeth, one last thing; I have not met anyone using a prescribed "mind altering drug" that was also not under psychiatric counseling and so they are working to get to the cause of their anxiety or depression or any other mental problem.  The idea that they are not would be indication that the medical people prescribing are the ones not doing the job correctly.  But I do know that they have to be prescribed, in this Country, by a psychiatrist and only when there is direct supervision.  I do personally kinow people that have been taking these or other medication like this and it is not a regular medical doctor that prescribes and they are referred to a psychiatrist if it is suspected they need this.  

Sorry this is so long but I felt that there needed to be more of an explanation.  I hope that I have cleared up some of your questions.




This post was modified from its original form on 10 Jan, 23:34
7 months ago

Great exchange of opinions, ladies!    This is why we are here on Political Derby...for discussion and sharing.  

7 months ago

I have never tried marijuana either.  I don't even know what it smells like. Liberal parents of a good friend of my daughter's tried it as well as LSD in the 70's.  Her friend & parents do not believe me when I say my husband and I never did illegal drugs.

Marijuana has a lot of health risks associated with it.  It is not as benign a substance that it is made out to be.

Contrary to popular belief, not all gays support gay marriage.  It should be left up to the states to decide.

Druggies
7 months ago

Linda, I don't know anyone, including my own late mother, who was in counselling or expected to do so by the Dr who gave them drugs for just about everything that bothered them.

I do not believe that only psychiatrists can prescribe mood altering drugs. There are some that are Controlled Substances, yes, but the countless millions of happydrug takers have never seen a psychiatrist. My mother lived in an apartment block housing lots of "senior citizens". She knew all the women there. She told me that every last one of them was on happy pills of one sort or another, and many of them had been for decades.

People of my parents' generation (born 1920s/30s) in general have no interest in getting to the root causes of anything in their lives as it lies outside their frame of reference and it's not their fault because they were never encouraged to do so. Self-examination was not in the character of that generation and apparently not in most of the later ones' character, either.

Yes, there are exceptions - those into "natural health" and those pursuing self-knowledge. Only for starters, try going to Page 4 of this: (There are so many more, less harmful, approaches that deal with overall health, not just symptoms.)

http://www.orthomolecular.org/hof/hof2006.pdf

For all the rest, it's Better Living with Chemistry. They drank the Kool-Aid starting in the 1960s and it's been downhill from there.

PS: At a holiday dinner at my home there was a minor conflict. Happens everywhere, all the time. My mother just got up from the table, waddled over to her purse on the chesterfield, opened it up, found the Magic Bottle, popped something into her mouth and 5 minutes later was smiling and drooling and pleasant. The day I behave this way, please have me shot.

7 months ago

Not everyone drank the kool-aid in the 60's and beyond.  A number of us had different home lives and were raised differently.  You could barely get my mother to take an aspirin let alone some mood altering drug.  Same for my father.

7 months ago

I guess I was also a fuddy duddy!  I grew up in an area of the country where there were no drugs.  I didn't need anything except life to give me a high.  I loved high school. loved my family and just loved being in the world.  We were taught accountability and responsibility for ourselves and our actions.  There were no drugs in college - oh, yeah, we smoked and we drank but nothing like Maryjane and certainly nothing like the kids of today are hooked on. 

 

Linda I understand what you are saying.  I see it every day.  A friend of ours is raising her grandson because her daughter is a meth user and a pole dancer in a notorious men's club.  Her mother (our friend) spent thousands of dollars putting her in various "drying out" centers only to have her come out and back to her old habits.  Our friend, finally had enough and got full custody of the baby.  That baby is now 6 yrs old - he is a very smart little boy and his life is so wonderful.  Thanks to his grandmother he is a happy little boy. 

 

The father of this child is also a meth user and has been arrested numerous times for meth manufacturing!  He is, at present, in a Florida prison. 

 

There are thousands of these stories I hear and read about each day.  My thought is if you are going to screw up your life with drugs then get your tubes tied so you don't screw up the next generation.  I have another friend who works with babies who are born with drug addiction.  It's so sad to know that there are young people out there who don't give a d*** about anything other than their own self satisfaction. 

 

There are parents I've seen who have tried to give their kids so many second chances - have spent literally thousands of dollars in trying to help them only to be disappointed with the results and have finally gone the "tough love" route and have distanced themselves from their children.  Many parents with broken hearts but in order to survive themselves they have had to break the cord and let them go.  Many do not even know where they are or what they are doing.  It is so painful to watch.  But they have my support.  There is only so much you can do.  At some point the user is the only one who can pull themselves out of their drugged lives.

 

I've seen kids that I've had in my classes who were really incredible young people, very smart with promising futures get themselves into drugs so deeply that they will never be able to function as useful adults.  And, even though we can offer advice there is very little else we can do.  Again, the regaining of their lives is up to them.

 

Is drug education enough?  I think not.  Teaching one to have respect for their own bodies and the fullfilment of their lives would be much better.

 

 

7 months ago

Tara Jane, I hear what you are saying.  My personal feeling is that rarely does the rehab work for the parents, but the children have a better than average chance and most are successful in turning their lives around with intervention and counseling and the younger they get that help the better.  So many have gone on to college, have decent jobs and consider their family their adoptive parents and as a result they move on and succeed.  That is the success and thankfully, the Courts see this and they will only give the birth parents so much room; a year is standard.  The Court knows that if they have not turned things around enough to at least be making strides in the right direction, it will never happen.  Those that work with the Court and the Family Planning program presented to them are able to move ahead for the most part; I woiuld say about 40% of them and that is better than none; but it is not what we would hope to see.

Your are right, Tara Jane, most are lost.  And to those family members (parents of the drug users and siblings, extended family, etc.) that step forward for the sake of the children, I thank them as many are very successful in providing the home the children need and deserve.  It is that small minority of children that have no one that are the real victims in all of this and thank goodness for foster parents that bond and love them and care.  But I do need to point out that not all foster care providers are the best place, either.  

Sandy, I appreciate that, like you, I was never part of the drug using crowd.  I was raised to the truth of mind altering drugs when used illegally and the harm that can create.  Fortunately, of my class of 283 there have been only 10 that turned to drugs; the rest of remained drug free and it is been 49 years this June since we graduated.  I applaud each and every one of them for not giving in to the things that were happening in the mid and late 60's and since.

I am also one very thankful mother that none of my 3 children have been drug users and none of them abuse alcohol, either.  I have friends, like you, Tara Jane, that have not been as fortunate and my heart breaks for all the heartache they have experienced; tough love is so hard but so necessary.  

No, Tara Jane, drug education is not enough always.  I wish it were, but it isn't.

7 months ago

What is so disturbing about this is the clear indication of how political the Department of Justice has become under this alleged POTUS and AG. Of course the whole administration is that way but this has a more pervasive effect on the country than even the IRS and NSA abuses since it is designed to destroy both the culture and the rule of law and is doing so very effectively. Going out of their way to push Left Wing causes and racial preferences is very corrosive. Add their appointments of blatant political cronies in both the Christie and IRS investigations, going after those states and state/local politicians who want to curb illegal immigration while giving a pass to "sanctuary" states/cities/etc and those who give driver's licenses/in state tuition breaks/etc to illegals, support of the LBGT agenda even when against the will of the people and laws of states like in the cases of CA and UT, overlooking pot legalization, basis in cases involving race like the Zimmerman case and the recent application of the "hate crime" law against a white on black knock out case and ignoring the issue when it is black on white, and all the other incidents of real racism and support of radical cases by the alleged "Department of Justice" they are doing an excellent job of "transformation" (aka "hope and change". This is straight from the "progressive"/communist play book to destroy US society by pushing immorality and destruction of our institutions like the family to promote dependency and weak individuals that can be easily controlled by pushing addictive behavior that has the added benefit of also producing people too self absorbed and under the influence of that behavior to realize they are being manipulated and 2ill ignore what is going on around them. The case Linda cites is a perfect example of what is happening and the cost is a factor as well since once again it shows how irresponsibility is being rewarded and paid for by the responsible citizens as well as the innocent. It also shows why the mantra that the GOP must avoid the "social issues" is only a ploy by the Demagogues and the Left to push their anti social "social issues"! The counter arguments must be done on a basis of the bad outcomes and costs all around in wasted lives and other people's money not solely based on a morality lesion. BTW, notice as well that the Left's rant against some of their pet "social issues" like smoking and obesity do not put those involved in the same addictive mind numb state that will make them as dependent or ignorant of their surroundings.

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