Did she say chillun, or children?! Maybe she could get a bobble head doll made in her image. LOL
I am ideologically opposed to people's health care being at the mercy of their employers. That's a hell of a lot of leverage to have over people.
I think health coverage is a good thing. I'm opposed to anyone, religious or not, having to pay for someone else's sex life. If it's proven a pregnancy is harmful to the mother, it should be up to the mother, no coercion, to decide to go through with it or not. If not, and she needs help with abortion then she should have the help available. Some would disagree with that even, some not. BC can be got at $10.00, I or noone else needs to pay for that for your grownup choice. Most grownups pay for thier own extracuriicular activities. If a guy can't afford condoms, something is wrong with that gals choice of bed partners, -or she ahould buy them, whatever.
By that logic I shouldn't have to pay for anyone's poor health choices, like eating too much food that's bad for you, or not exercising. I'm very healthy, thank U very much... why should I ever pay a dime for people who aren't? However, I know that such micromanaging and picking and choosing is unrealistic if everyone is to have health care that isn't at the behest of an employer. If you can play the game of "unnecessary" birth control then I can play the game of "unnecessary" prescriptions for whatever your ailments are.
Paying people small amounts of money to not have kids, such as by birth control, is good public policy in this heavily populated planet of ours. Whether you think that's a "fair" use of your tax dollars or not. Life doesn't have to be fair. Lots of people are poor and disadvantaged; because you didn't personally do anything to make them that way, does that mean you're entitled to make tax decisions to just leave them alone, let them rot? The mentality there is that you'll just let people suffer, make bad choices, turn the world into more crap, etc. because it's "not your fault" and you "shouldn't have to pay." It's not very smart on your part because the chickens do come home to roost, you do get more unwanted babies who are poorly educated, malnourished, exposed to environmental toxins in poor neighborhoods, and then with all the bad influences may turn to crime, again and again and again throughout the generations. Then you get randomly shot on the street someday, and you didn't even have time to pull your handgun out to stop it. You wonder why something "not fair" just happened to you, as you die.
I'm not running around behind my grown up daughters with BC in hand or condoms and I'm not about to. People want sex to be treated and covered under insurance as if it's a illness or disease, so they can enjoy it at some else's expense, instead of being responsible for having sex. People die of diseases and illnesses even when they eat healthily and exercise. I know people on welfare. They can afford BC and condoms. You have people here who do not whatsoever need help with BC or condoms, too lazy to get a job or try, wanting a nanny running around behind their butt to pay for their sex life, screaming their heads off to have someone else pay for it. If someone is so disadvantaged, through no fault of their own, and need help, I can see it, but not for Sandra Flakes of the world.
Sex is part of the human life cycle. Young people are horny as hell. Old people become frail and need lots of medical treatments. Why should old people get all the bennies? Why should young people support old people with their paychecks and not get any bennies from it? To take an extreme point of view, why not just let old people die, without all these expensive health care systems to maintain them? Birth control is pretty cheap compared to all the medical services they use up. I hope you realize the proposition is somewhat monstrous, but it's where the "only my concerns count" kind of thinking leads to. Be careful what you wish for, about taking things away from other people. People will get around to taking away things from you.
Those young people are going to be those old people one day. Hopefully their young will take care of them when they get old. Those old did their share of taking care of the young, nothing wrong with the young taking care of the old when they get to old to take care of themselves. They got their bennies from the old people and they get their bennies from old people now, if they were smart enough to realize their wisdom, and appreciate old people.
Getting old and having the young take care of one, I don't think old people look at like being a bennie. So young people should consider sex a bennie, and they're giving bennies to old people if they take care of them, so old or older people than they should pay for their bennie of having sex in return, is wild. Sounds just like what they are trying to turn young people into today- "only my concerns count", no responsibility for my ownself, I can do or have what I want for fun, and everyone else should pay for my fun, my cell phones, my abortions, my morning or week after pills.
Obviously there's people who want to pay for everyone else's sex, or abortions for people who do us it as BC, so let them be the ones to pay for it.
Sherry, you are so right, we should not be forced to pay for peoples recreational choices...Sort of like "Elective surgery's". i.e. breast augmentations...Penile implants ET AL!
And Brandon, I'm thrilled to see you here as well...You already know that I find your prouse prolifically brilliant. I would like to personally add a big to you, to the group!!!
Love & Hugs to you both...Also love the class and respectful discourse between you. That is why this "IS" the best sow in town!!!
I happened to come across the Steve Harvey show and he had a single mother on there with the questions about talking to her teenage son about sex. She brought up she had already caught him with a girl in his room who had just came out of the shower. Steve Harvey brought up about telling both his sons that they were suppose to protect the girl first and not get her pregnant or give her any disease. Then a woman from some kind of a mental health job gave her opinions which weren't really worth listening too. One thing that I always questioned is that people are suppose to protect themselves when they have sex. I mean what the hell is anybody doing having sex with somebody they have to protect themselves from. Maybe it's old fashion but somehow sex at one time was meant to be to consummate committed relationships. Of course I have to include I have had enough sex that committed relationships would have never happened in any way because sex was all I liked about some of those I've been with. Having daughters and watching them go through emotional roller coasters with their emotions was an eye opener for me. As far as the health factor goes concerning sex more mental health is past due then physical health will ever be.
I've seen so many single mothers that are catered too and all they had to do is have sex to become mothers with no responsibility or accountability required in any way. And then the children that irresponsible and unaccountable brought in to the world are also catered too. I mean even our president was brought up by a single mother and in one of his books he wrote how he struggled searching for his identity. His mother's theory supposedly was she would rather love then be married. I've got one daughter left and she just ended her fifth marriage. To me like it or not we all do pay for not doing something about things like this, whether it be with health care or the shootings like the one in Conn. I run into a woman that has been prostituting herself for better then twenty years. I gave her some money once and didn't want sex so every time she sees me she's not shy about talking to me. She has three children who her brother adopted but won't let her live there. She's on drugs and apparently must of OD'd and somebody dumped her nude body on the side of the road. The police picked her up and she ended up in prison for a couple years. She had just gotten out the last time I seen her and got in a fight in a halfway house so there was a good chance she's back in prison again. Whether it's health care cost or prison we all pay for not honestly dealing with issues like this one way or another.
It's almost like stop the world and let's get off so maybe we could start over someway without what's going on right now.
This post was modified from its original form on 10 Jan, 22:04
Ken what exactly do you think you can force a teenager to do or not do? You can try to persuade, but you can't force. When you think you can use force, all you do is set yourself up for the rebellion. That's why we're supposed to be talking about prophylactics in sex ed class. Teenagers are going to have sex, that's reality. Given that reality, we'd like them to not get pregnant and not catch diseases. Whether you personally think it's the right kind of emotionally fulfilling sex or not is totally irrelevant.
Sherry, I've met plenty of older people who say things like, "Well my kids are all grown up, I don't want to pay taxes for education anymore." That's extremely short sighted. Just because "you're done" with some life stage of yours, doesn't mean society is. Less education = more criminals. By that kind of logic, "Hey, there's a good chance I'll be in the next 10 years. Why not let society go to hell, let's just authorize or de-authorize any old thing. I won't mind, 'cuz I'll be dead and won't see the crappy world I made before I left!"
"I don't want to pay for your sex life" is extremely short-sighted.
How in the hell did you ever get the use of force from what I wrote?
Ken, you say "we all do pay for not doing something about things like this." What do you suppose you can do?
If you agree that you can't use force, then all you can do is try to persuade. And you'd better actually be leaving it to their own decision making, or "persuasion" just becomes psychological force, a guilt trip that they'll rebel against. There's very little you can do. You can try to impart your own values, but they aren't you and will make up their own minds no matter what you do. Statistically, that means teens will have sex. They will do it in ways you don't like, don't approve of, and that you can't stop. Might as well have them wear some rubbers while they're at it. You call it "catering to" them; I call it being realistic about human sexuality.
What are you using for thinking and reasoning? I mean if I consider my communication with just you I see it as holding me hostage to your mentality. So that leaves it up to me to reason and decide what I want to do with my behavior. Both you and I are included in our whole society and I am a firm believer that we earn each others trust and respect which determines the roles we serve in our lives in society. The use of force does not in any way earn trust and respect. The use of force is 'Winning by Intimidation,' and that is controlling and manipulating.
We all pay more with the use of force because that is fear based and keeping humans in fear has destroyed any morals and values we might have ever had in our US. Being realistic about human sexuality is complete nonsense. Putting human sexuality into the context of human behavior and then dealing with it would shift the subject to common sense which I do not see any sign of in our US.
What's "common sense" to tell a horny teenager then?
The horny teenagers had parents who were responsible and accountable for bringing them into this world and the common sense part is they weren't responsible and accountable doing that and so this behavior escalates to where our society is right now!
Could you please be specific about what exactly you want to tell the teenagers, at the moment they're, say, 16 years old and interested in having sex?
Disliking how the parenting got to be the way it is doesn't help matters any. Unless you personally want to intervene with all the poor people, or all the rich people who don't have enough love and respect in their families, you have to deal with the reality of teenagers who are Alienated. You're old enough to have seen "Rebel Without A Cause" in the original, this isn't a new issue.
Could you please be specific about writing that what I wrote doesn't help you!
Yes and am old enough to have seen 'Rebel without a cause and when I was in the Navy I run into a guy who had one of the cars from the chicken scene in the movie. It was an orange coupe and I had a "47 Merc coupe with a chopped top so we naturally gravitated together with our interest in cars.
I think it is the responsability of the parents to educate and guide the children early on with a foundation of chastity andd the consequences afterwards if not...especially now with all the different STD's because of prominscunity.
Sure it's the parents' responsibility. But we know there will be irresponsible parents, that's reality. So what are we going to tell the horny 16 year olds as a matter of public health policy? I know where I personally stand on this. My views are based on realism. I want to minimize the number of people who get pregnant and catch diseases. AFAIAC the message should be "wear a condom."
I believe it's the parent's responsibility to role model the behaviors they believe are best for their children. Unfortunately the role modeled behaviors we see from children are the ones that parents role modeled for them and in our present day and age parents are in no way held accountable for the way they role modeled these behaviors for their children to observe.