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Do any of you ever get angry? May 06, 2005 6:20 AM

Do any of you ever get angry? At the sorrow itself, the situation, blame someone higher above depending on your belief systems.

How do you deal with that? Do you feel guilt or shame for experiencing this and questioning say for example God? Anger can turn into major bitterness and that can be a difficult pill not to swallow when walking the sorrow journey at times. I have held off on this question because there have been times recently I feel the anger rising and falling inside me regarding the situations of grief in my life. I am only hman folks.---ginger

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 May 06, 2005 7:52 AM

oh, yes, Ginger...I get angry.  I dont get angry at her, or at any sprititual power...I get angry that my life plan has had to change so drastically.  I get angry that the government sees fit to dump millions of dollars into war instead of cancer research.

I am not angry with her, because, it would have broken me to have her continue to be trapped in the pain of a cancer riddled body, that would have killed her spirit.  And I think that is what keeps me focused on the anger not turning to bitterness.

so yes, as a human, with all the facets, I do get angry...and that too, is a part of this path that I must walk, and strive to learn from.

love.....Novella

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 May 06, 2005 3:44 PM

To be truthful, I get angry at God for taking Tony away from me!  We both had difficult lives, failed marriages, health problems, and years of hard work...  so I thought we had deserved to meet and spend the rest of our lives together, in perfect harmony.  What happened, and in the way it happened, wasn't fair...  I'm convinced he was a much evolved soul and had a fairly good health...  he didn't suffer long...  I was holding his hand and talking to him...  Of course, it was all much harder for me, because I'm still in shock!  And I can't figure our what "my plan" is?!

Giuliana aka Princess Little Rock

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 May 06, 2005 6:07 PM

angGiuliana---------man, do I empathize with what you wrote. I can't imagine why I am expected to live without my son! My dtr is the only reason I have not given in to the deep sorrow and left this Earth, but I am so upset with God for "picking" me to go through this. This pain is nothing I would wish on anyone...even an enemy as it is a pain without description. My brother and my mom are having a hard time realizing that my distant attitude has nothing to do with them but everything to do with missing my son so badly. Every morning I wake and have that God awful knowing of life without my son here on Earth. Ginger and Guiliana- thank you for your knowing and loving words to everyone. allofus

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 May 06, 2005 6:09 PM

ang  missing from last post  [ send green star]
 
 May 06, 2005 6:10 PM

sorry, the angel didn't appear but is there now...............you get the meaning!  [ send green star]
 
 May 06, 2005 6:39 PM

  Yes, I got angry... mostly after my Mom died.  I was mad at God, my sister, and mostly myself.   I feel it's my fault she's dead.  I went to bring back her laundry ( she lived in the building behind us).  She had been sick for a couple weeks with gastritis ( or so they said).  When I looked at her laying on the couch I was frightened.  I didn't even go very close to her.   I stood back and talked to her.  I asked how she was feeling, if she had taken her meds, if she was eating.  She said she was feeling better than she had been.  I told her I would call her later.  I went home and called my sister and told her Mommy looked really bad...should we take her to ER.  My sister said that I would look awful too if I had been vomiting and having diarrhea all week.  It made sense especially since Mom said she was feeling better.   Well, that night I got involved with my kids ( I have 3) and I never called.  The next morning I called.... no answer.  I waited a half hour thinking well maybe she's in the shower.   Called again... no answer.   I had the key and went over there.   She was dead.... laying on the floor with the tray that had her dinner on it.  If I would have called like I said I don't think she would be dead.   The Dr. said her heart couldn't take being so sick.   She had been to the Dr. that week and her heart was checked.  This was in Sept. 1994.  She was 64 yrs. old. She never got to retire.   I will always believe that my phone call could have made a difference.  It is something I won't know until I meet my Mother again in Heaven.  I stopped being mad at God.  He has a plan for all of us.  We have a reason to be here.  And HE has his reason for taking those He needs with him.  I know my Mom is watching over our family.   I light a candle every night for her. She is happy with GOD.  Her name is Rose.roses
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Anger is natural May 06, 2005 8:44 PM

I got angry after Laurel was killed - not necessarily at someone or something, but sometimes just angry without focus.  I was fortunate in having family and friends who loved me enough to let me react honestly and openly, without judging or taking it personally.  I also got angry at the individuals I believed were responsible through their incompetence and neglect - and I still have that anger in me.  I recognize it, but will not let it control me or color how I now choose to live and react.  But it's always there, and I don't think it will ever leave.  I don't think I ever got angry with God - I've never believed that He/She controlled every single action here on Earth, and that human free will can cause any number of bad consequences.  Also, I believe that God can use every thing to a good purpose, if we let it happen and accept it.

After Laurel was killed, the phrase that kept coming out of my mouth was "it's not supposed to happen this way - kids bury parents, not the other way around..."  That, I think, expressed quiet anger at what had happened.

So, by all means get angry and yell, scream, vent, hit inanimate objects or throw them around...even break something if you need the release.  Don't censor or muffle your honest emotion or reaction - let it happen and then choose how you proceed.  And, if you need someone to vent to, my email is julepjerk@care2.com.  I'll be happy to "listen" to anything and truly understand.....

Found a great quote that reflects what is truth for me - There is no distance greater than one minute ago...

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 May 07, 2005 10:28 AM

Daria, my dear,

I don't think your call would have changed anything...  I believe  that when someone's time comes, there's nothing we can do to postpone/prevent it.  Your sister would have only suffered longer...  You know I have Tony's image before my eyes all day long...  when he was screaming and jerking because he was in such a terrible pain!  But then, all of sudden, he became still and passed on. In a way, it was a relief.  He had no more pain.  What if he had survived with a severely damaged heart or brain?  It would have been a torture for both of us!

You did what you could!  PLEASE don't feel guilty for NO reason.

Love,

Giuliana aka Princess Little Rock

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 May 07, 2005 11:10 AM

Anger is a natural stage we go through in grieving, I was angry at John for dying, I begged him to hang on, his cancer was meant to be curable so why couldn't he be cured.  I found out the diet and high dosage food supplements he was taking regularly could have contributed, he refused to even attempt any alternative remedies, though they could have been taken alongside chemotherapy.  I got angry with myself, I found it hard sometimes nursing him through the cancer, during his last 24 hours I couldn't cope with him at home, and got into a confusion with his medications so had him admitted into hospital not knowing how close to death he was, would he have preferred to die at home and see his sons and for his sons to see him one last time?  I was angry at the medical staff, they promised at the very beginning he wouldn't feel pain, that was John's greatest fear, at the end he was in pain, I begged thr staff for more morphine but they couldn't give it...he was dying what difference would it make to give a little extra to ease his suffering?  And I was angry at God, why take John who was a good man, never smoked, took drugs, rarely drank, was honest and kind and yet there were others left to live long healthy lives that were the dregs of humanity like murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc.  Would it have made such a huge difference to God's masterplan to let him live?  All I wanted was the answer to the question why, not why me but why John?   [ send green star]
 
I am grateful for all the honest answers on here... May 07, 2005 12:06 PM

I am grateful for all the honest answers on here...I asked because I am aware that it is a natural process of grief but depending on what you learned spiritually in life you can sometimes feel guilt for blame or anger. But it is alright to blame God, for that is acknowledgement but at least we have someone to blame if you believe. I struggle with my anger and have become very angry at times slamming dashboards trying to understand how could this possibly happen but as I have said, there is always more than meets the eye as stories unfold of how people leave this earth and pass onto the next. Prior to her passing I had already struggled with my belief system and since than have come to grips with it. But it still creeps in and you just deal with it and flow with it. I just hope and pray for each of us that bitterness doesn't become our best friend for I have seen many walk that walk and well that robs them even moreso of a life that our loved ones truly want us to live as best as we can until we see them again. peace & blessings---ginger  [ send green star]
 
 May 07, 2005 10:32 PM

I became angry at myself first and foremost. In all areas of life I do this all the time. Of all the human beings on this earth I'm roughest on myself. Suicide is a different kind of loss. When I was recieving the news about it, even though we were divorced, I called my ex-wife. My other daughter gave me the news and I could hear my ex crying in the background. I knew I made a mistake getting married because I didn't know a damn thing about relationships. And hearing that crying I knew I was responsible for a bigger mistake. I felt responsible for hurting her and our other daughter. Add to that children aren't given to us suicidial so that also added to my anger at myself. Being ignorant about life didn't matter. 

When my ex wrote me about her lung cancer that anger came back to haunt me some more. My first thoughts were all the times I tried to get her to quit smoking but with her approaching death she was making amends, which meant all I could do is hide my feelings so she could have a peaceful death. She really was a good person but I didn't know enough to take the time to build up some kind of trust and respect for one another. More anger renewal towards myself set in.  

I was extremely angered at the screwed up society I live in. There were so many things my daughter went through in her dealings with people that it was a good thing I was in another state. I know I wouldn't have held my anger back if I would have been around some people. I was angry that nobody taught me about relationships or how to pick a mate. That anger is and always will be with me till the day I die.

I never got angry at God. God to me is a belief that there is some thing or somebody always there for me when the rest of the world isn't. That belief in God is a special friendship that I turn to at times like that. I also was taught that I was created in that image and with that thought in mind I felt that God shared what He felt like when He lost his son. He showed me what He felt like when people mistreated His Son like they mistreated my daughter. Thoughts like that didn't take my pain away but it helped me to understand life and love better.

If anything I do like to argue with God in a joking sort of way. I remember one time I entered a speech contest and I hate getting dressed up or being in high class places. I'm to much of a rebel for that kind of life. So I'm going up to the podium with my God talk saying, "Are You sure You know what you are doing? Can't You pick on somebody else for a change?" Then I put something about a bowel movement in a humorous speech just to rebel. I couldn't believe it after the speech the narrator interviewed me and it came out that I was learning to speak because of my daughter's suicide. People came out the wood-work telling me about somebody they lost from suicide. That's why none of lossing somebody makes sense to me. I've learned to just kind of let go and re-adjust to life as it comes to me.

Peace

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 May 08, 2005 7:19 AM

Dear Morning Star,

The last sentence of your message said it all: why not me?! That's what I always ask God!  Why Tony and NOT me?  The answer I have given myself is that, perhaps, Tony's mission on earth was over after he helped me in every way he could...  And his soul was certainly more advanced than mine!  Still, I take his death as a "PUNISHMENT" for me and I don't understand what my purpose is...

Giuliana aka Princess Little Rock

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 May 08, 2005 8:30 AM

like you Giuliana, I saw John as an advanced soul, so until i know for sure i presume he was either needed in the higher planes of existance or his lessons were all learnt here.   I therefore must have been left behind because I still have a lot to learn or things I must do here, not least bring up our children, but also I have considered my karma must be so bad I must have done something so terrible in a previous life to have to live and watch some one I love suffer and die.  BTW our eldest son confided in me that he thought he was to blame for his dad's death because he wished it after an arguement with him once....what a burdon for a child, I told him it's not possible to wish someone dead, if it were there would be a lot less people in this world  [ send green star]
 
 May 08, 2005 12:23 PM

Again, Morning Star, in reading your message I was under the impression I had written it myself!  I feel exactly the same, except that I have no children...  Have you realized so far "WHAT IS" that you're supposed to learn?  How do you think you can advance spiritually?  Religion isn't helping me at all, so far...  I'm still angry!

Hugs,

Giuliana aka PLR

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Guilana and Darksky May 08, 2005 12:39 PM

One of the things I have discovered that I believe to be true is that we can not know what we are here to do or why things happen.  I have come to a quiet acceptance that I am here for some reason, and try to keep myself open to whatever that purpose is.  I think that I will not necessarily recognize it intellectually, but that it will be revealed to me in spirit - to be felt, rather than known.  Several books I've read talk about God calling in different manners (one I'm reading now is fantastic - The Love Languages of God, by Gary Chapman.  It ties into his earlier work describing the five different love languages people use and relate to, and how to determine which is the primary language of you and your loved ones.  Also, having just read two books on the Dark Night of the Soul, both emphasize the need to develop your ability to merely open yourself and accept what is and what you receive - without overanalyzing it or trying to put it into a human frame of reference.....

Treat yourself well, refuse to listen to anybody who tells you hor you should feel or what you should do, and just accept yourself for what you are at this moment.  Offer this gift to others (like your son), and let them know that guilt is a powerful emotion that can overcome and negatively control - but that we have the conscious ability to not accept it and to be absolutely honest with ourelves about what we can and cannot do....

And anybody who hasn't or isn't going through it can't truly understand, no matter how much they feel or want to help...

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 May 08, 2005 2:54 PM

Dear Tim,

What does exactly "The Languages of God" refers to?  Who's the author?  Any other books to recommend?  I want to make a list (also including Ginger's books) and see what they have available at the local US military library.  Thanks for your help.

Hugs,

Giuliana aka Princess Little Rock

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Guiliana May 08, 2005 9:46 PM

Hi, Guiliana!

The two books by Gary Chapman are The Five Love Languages and The Love Languages of God.  The first is his theory that each of us has a primary "love language" among five - words of affirmation, quality time, acts of service, gifts, and physical touch.  It is the one that we use most often - but may not be the one of our partner or those we deal with.  He compares it to spoken languages like English and German - we may both be saying the same thing, but will not understand the other.  His theme is to identify your language and then learn how to identify the primary language of others, so you can "speak" to them in their language.  The second gives examples of how God speaks in all the languages, and how we can better use our language to speak to him/her.

I also like the sould books of Thomas Moore, but they can be a bit difficult.  Scott Peck is one of my favorite authors. (The Road Less Travelled and A Different Drum are two good ones, but my personal favorite is Searching For Stones.)

After Laurel was killed, I read the Tao Tse Ching, which really helped me and my calmness ("Flow like water...")  Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig made a major impact on me many years ago, and I re-read it during my grief and it still had an impact.  Anthony Campolo is a Christian author that I particularly like; Leo Buscaglia always hits my heart.

And, by all means read The Four Agreements and the follow-up The Mastery of Love.  The author's name escapes me right now, but Agreements is very well-known.

That should be a start...my experience is that different people react to and respond to various authors.  If one doesn't appeal to you, that's okay - just try someone else.  And, if you use a library as I do, if it doesn't resonate within you, you can just return it and you haven't wasted any money.  Those you like you can then purchase.

Hope this helps!

Tim

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 May 09, 2005 12:11 AM

Thanks for the info., Tim!  If the US library doesn't have them, I'll try with the bookstore and see if I can place orders.  Otherwise, I'll check the Italian stores and Mazon.com.  But, like you said, I'd rather read them for free and then decide whether I want to purchase them or not.  Will keep you posted.

Buscaglia is a well known Italian writer, therefore I should the able to find his entire collection at any Italian library/bookstore.  Will keep you posted.

Hugs,

Giuliana aka Princess Little Rock

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Sorry everyone July 13, 2005 10:23 AM

It seems I am destined to open up old threads, but this is another that really resonates with me.  I was sooo angry after Rudy died, I was angry with my self for letting him go to his dad's house.  I was angry with his dad for letting him drive.  I was even angry with Rudy himself, almost as angry with him as I was with myself.  I couldn't believe that he would do what he had done.  How could he not have known what would have happened.  Of course now I don't think like that, he was a teenager, and we all know that teens think nothing bad will ever happen to them.  I even remember making all these deals with "god" and I wasn't even sure if there was a god, or who or what he was LOL.  "please, dear God, if you are real, please give me back my child and I will live a perfect life.  I will be a perfect person."  As time wore on, I stopped feeling this anger, and it was replaced with  an anger that seemed to flair up at different times.  Directed at people I didn't even know.  "how dare you have your son?"  "how can you possibly think that stupid (whatever the thought, idea, conversation was about) is important."  And I was very glad when this rage too went away.  I don't get angry now, I am very grateful for the time I did have with Rudy and the love and very special relationship we shared together.  [ send green star]
 
I understand Karen oh so well your thoughts.. July 14, 2005 11:49 AM

"how can you possibly think that stupid (whatever the thought, idea, conversation was about) is important." ---Karen's words

Boy, can I ever relate to that comment of the many wise comments you made within your posting. I still get like that to this day. And yes the anger sometimes shows up at the oddest times too. Startling me at its abrupt but distinct arrival. But for the sheer essence of it showing up, I learn something new from the experience every time and so do alot of people around me at the time it erupts. I really have a difficult time with pettiness anymore, life is way too short and people had better wake up.  That is just how I feel at times Karen, perhaps God knew better then to give me my own flesh and blood children. I struggled with my faith and belief system prior to my niece's passing too, but it has strengthened it in ways spiritually that has given me new wisdoms and hidden truths that wil enver be answered.   

My husband knocked down the picture I had of my niece that hangs in its usual spot this morning and I think he thought I was angry with him for this. No, I was just sad that my niece wasn't there smiling back at me anymore. I will just buy a new frame which will be a small consolation for someone who I wish were still amongst the living. There were too many things left unsaid and that part still grieves me. Rachel was a beautiful girl and the hardest part was I knew and now I wish that it never came true. ---ginger

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