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Groups > Empathic Internet > Discussions > Topic: Absolute newbie! Help on 'modeming'...
Topic: Absolute newbie! Help on 'modeming'...

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SundaraRaman R.	Absolute newbie! Help on 'modeming'... July 18, 2005 12:34 PM Hi, I'm an absolute newbie to Linux and I've got Ubuntu installed. I don't know anything in Linux. Now, I want to use the Internet from Ubuntu. I have a Conexant HSF 56K internal modem. I initially thought I cannot use this in Ubuntu('coz I read it's a WinModem ) but now I saw in the Device manager that Ubuntu has identified my modem's manufacturer and type(HSF) correctly. Does that mean I can use it in Ubuntu? If yes, how do I configure my dialup settings(For example, what number to dial, etc.). Then, I read that there's an update utility in Ubuntu. How do I use it? Also, I want to know how to acces Windows FAT32 partitions from Linux. Please remember that I don't even know how to get into the shell. So please give as much detail as possible. [ send green star] [ accepted]
SarahJane M.	July 18, 2005 2:19 PM Hi & , Sundara! The Conexant HSF chipset is very common in winmodems; that's what I've found in most of the computers I've been refurbishing. The good news is: Linux drivers are available. The bad news is, you might have to pay for them (although you can try them out for free). Here's where to start: http://www.linuxant.com/drivers/ Installation can be a fiddly process, although you might be lucky. I had my friend's connection up and running in no time, whereas others have taken several hours to get right. It's not difficult, though, as long as you're OK with following instructions (rather than using wizards). Happily, your dial-up settings will be exactly the same as for Windows. So if you already have an ISP, jot down the connection number for reference. I've not tried the Conexant with Ubuntu yet, as I've only just got it, so I'd like to give it a go before offering any further advice. I'll get back to you as soon as I've done that (probably some time tomorrow). Till then, I hope you find the Linuxant site useful - but if it raises more questions than it answers, let us know! [ send green star] [ accepted]	(Member Is Blocked)
JohnBessa V.	Geeez July 18, 2005 2:50 PM I was hoping that question woundn't come up, modems are a tough nut. I have an exterior modem for my laptop, but havent had to get it started. I developed my dialing technique in 1992, where I use minicom to log on, and then suspend the process w/ ctl-Z, and then start pppd. Seems easy enuf to me ... [ send green star]
JohnBessa V.	My Win Modem July 18, 2005 3:05 PM This is the hack to get it working.. note the part where you have to BOOT WINDOW$ Modem is finally usable, here is one way to use it on linux : Compile and install module slamrmo (http://www.smlink.com ; slmdm-2.7.10) Boot Windows , no windows ? happy hacking Add an ISP , Dial any number (unplugged or not) Re-Boot to Linux log as root # modprobe -v slamrmo kppp (as root) [ send green star]
JohnBessa V.	Checking for your modem, and other devices July 18, 2005 3:10 PM On Ubuntu, go to system on the top menu bar, then administration, then device manager that will show you all the technology that Linux has detected. Scroll down for the word MODEM and then you will see a lot of info including the manufacturer's model number. You can google search with it. [ send green star]
SarahJane M.	July 19, 2005 9:15 AM Ubuntu's already done some of the hard work by telling you what chipset your modem uses. (Sometimes an HSF is wrongly identified as HCF, but we needn't go into that just now.) I've been trying to configure an HSF modem here, and I'm nearly there! I've had problems with other Debian-based distros, so that was quite a surprise. I made some notes as I went along. They look quite lengthy, but I'm trying to explain it all in as much detail as possible. I don't know what you don't know, if you see what I mean! Part 1 of instructions coming up ... [ send green star] [ accepted]	(Member Is Blocked)
JohnBessa V.	Where we are going... July 19, 2005 9:26 AM I honestly think that at a certain point we will not be able to rely on Ubuntu alone and we will actually have to compile our own installations... Just a heads up, keyword... GCC [ send green star]
SarahJane M.	Part 1 July 19, 2005 9:30 AM First: insert Ubuntu CD. On the menu, go to Applications -> System Tools -> Add/remove Programs. (You'll have to enter your password at this stage.) Click Advanced, then close the window that pops up. From the menu on the left, select Development. On the right, check the boxes next to 'gcc' and all the packages marked 'linux'. (If it says it needs to install others as well, OK. You might not need them all for this, but it's as well to have them anyway.) Click Apply, and let it do its stuff. Next: download hsfmodem_7.18.00.05full_k2.6.10_5_386_ubuntu_i386.deb.zip Right-click on this file, and choose Extract to .... I extracted it to my Home folder, because it's easy to find and shouldn't disturb anything else. Now go to Applications -> System Tools -> Terminal. In this window, type: sudo su and press Enter. You can type the next line very carefully, or select it, right-click & copy, click in the terminal, right-click & paste: dpkg -i ./hsfmodem_7.18.00.05full_k2.6.10_5_386_ubuntu_i386.deb.zip It should then start installing, asking you questions along the way. You can just press Enter if you're not sure, except for your email address - which must be the one supplied by your dial-up ISP. I have to go out now, but I'll post the rest later. Good luck! [ send green star] [ accepted]	(Member Is Blocked)
SarahJane M.	July 19, 2005 5:24 PM Hmm. Got a bit too confident there, I think. The modem drivers are installed, the modem is recognised, it even activates - but won't dial. I won't post the rest of the instructions until I've got it to work. If you can buy your way out of trouble, I'd suggest using a Linux-friendly modem. If you can't: I know that I can get HSF modems working with Fedora and Mandrake, so you might want to try one of those. (It's also a lot more straightforward than this.) From what I've seen of it so far, Ubuntu is a friendly and generally easy-going distro. However, winmodems are notoriously difficult! If there's a technical genius out there who'd like to collaborate on a seriously newbie-friendly dial-up app for Debian, please let me know. The nearest I've found so far are scripts, only some of which I can get to work. If you could come up with something graphical, I'd be in your debt forever ... [ send green star] [ accepted]	(Member Is Blocked)
JohnBessa V.	Older modems July 19, 2005 6:36 PM are usually free for the taking in old computers in the trash, they are pretty well guarenteed to work with linux. External modems are still pricey, bout 20$ on ebay, I wish I had an answer for the winmodems. [ send green star]
SarahJane M.	July 19, 2005 11:49 PM > Older modems are usually free for the taking in old computers in the trash, they are pretty well guarenteed to work with linux. Really? Almost all of my rescued PCs contain winmodems. Given that these will be around for years to come, the issue needs serious attention. More often than not, ability to connect to the Internet is a deciding factor in whether or not folk switch to Linux. And this isn't just about relative poverty; it's environmental. In Europe, manufacturers are now legally obliged to take back their computers. The same initiative states that all electronic goods constitute hazardous waste (which doesn't mean they're dangerous to use, just that they contain substances that should never end up in landfill.) So it will be up to manufacturers to dispose of components responsibly. Re-use is both cheaper and greener than recycling, and Open Source software is the most viable option for refurbished systems. So manufacturers would do well to invest in developing their drivers. Conexant, for example, should be funding Linuxant instead of the end user having to pay for what is usually a free product. Sorry this doesn't immediately solve your problem, Sundara, but it might help in the long term! Meanwhile, I'll keep working on the Ubuntu/HSF setup. I know it's possible because I've read so many success stories elsewhere; I just need to figure out what I've missed. [ send green star] [ accepted]	(Member Is Blocked)
JohnBessa V.	In my opinion.. (part 1) July 20, 2005 8:48 AM I think this opens a topic that has bothered me about ALL computing, that is that a success story on one computer does not mean that all computers will get the benefits. On Micro$oft systems it is all bout money, and if you are willing to pay, you can have the solution. A lot of linux based software has migrated to Window$ thru the Cygwin and MinGW environments helping the situation over there. It would be nice of the Linux desktop were designed to encapsulate success and allow a package to be developed easily by the successful integrator to be shared across all the other computers. With time and error-checking the solution can be integrated into the official release. Linux desktops are very impressive, too impressive I think. They were initially designed in the late 90s when it was imagined that Linux would rival Micro$oft and the initial designs were developed by big money operations, which have now considerably shrunk. Perl is the best example of free and sharing programming enviroment, and I always hoped that perl and linux would marry. Perl is a qualifed suitor because it is a langauge designed by and for systems administration, which is the art and science of getting computers to work right. Python came along and created a rival faction to perl, here in Ubuntu there is python programming being developed for the Ubuntu desktop. But the Desktop is essentially written in the low level langage of C, meaning that the average user does not have the ability to improve the architechture. [ send green star]
JohnBessa V.	Conexant Info July 25, 2005 11:16 AM http://www.olitec.com/pci56kv2.html The page is in French, but the installation commands are given on the page in boldface red text (you can also use the babel fish). Essentially, the instructions are to download the appropriate package, unpack it with tar -zxvf, and run the installation script ins_all. This driver is, however, a bit finicky (with the most common symptom of failure being the "NO DIALTONE" response), but a number of people have been able to get it to work, usually by inserting their modem's vendor ID in the modem's .inf file, perhaps along with a change of the device major number from 254 to 253. Some helpful pages include Imran Ghory's guide, and the Linmodems.org mailing list archives, such as this message, and this message about how to get the modules to automatically load. FROM HERE [ send green star]
JohnBessa V.	From looking at this mess.. July 25, 2005 11:21 AM I am serious about Micro$oft being a major problem !! These installs are the job of the manufacturers. I cannot believe that millions upon millions of Linux users are not worth supporting by the hardware companies, even at the marginal level of simply cooperating w/ the development groups. They are just following the dominant mentality of Bill Gates (and his family and friends and associates) -- the authoritarian concepts of "survival of the fittest", perverted by the Social Darwinists, who were hated by Darwin himself. [ send green star]
SarahJane M.	July 25, 2005 11:59 AM That's the package I used to get winmodems working with Red Hat 9. Installed and ran smoothly, no problem. But I couldn't get it to work with Knoppix & other Debian-based distros. It doesn't work with kernel 2.6, but the updated version - see my instructions above - is supposed to. However, I might have to enter the vendor ID manually with that one too; I had to with some of the modems I tried with 5.03.27, but not all. Thanks for the reminder - might be the missing link! Another point to note: some sites discourage folk from using 5.03.27, as it has been superceded and we're "supposed to" purchase the newer driver from Linuxant. Given the trouble I've had with the latter, I'll leave you to guess what I think about that! About the Olitec page: Babelfish is sometimes very useful (& sometimes very funny!) but it doesn't really make these instructions any clearer. For example, 'ce pilote doit être chargé' is translated as 'this pilot must be charged' rather than 'this driver must be loaded'. If anyone needs a human translation, email me at just42day@peacemail.com and I'll send it to you. But as John says, all you really need to do is follow the commands. (Just remember, it only works with kernels 2.2.x and 2.4.x - not 2.6.x.) As for 'survival of the fittest': a new thread beckons! [ send green star] [ accepted]	(Member Is Blocked)
SundaraRaman R.	New developments! July 26, 2005 11:04 AM Hi, I've been experimenting with Linux and it's great to learn things. When I read my first post now, I can answer most of those Questions myself. However, Linux seems lacking in one aspect: the help pages(man, info) are very poorly developed(in the enduser's point of view). If you want something you'll have to pass through a lot of blabla before you get to it. I mostly arrive at the correct page only through luck. Anyway forums like these are a very great resources. Somebody already seems to have asked almost every question I want to ask... As far as the modem problem goes, I'm in the same position as SarahJane mentioned: I've installed the 14.4 kbps snail driver, configured using gnome-ppp and am able to dial. However, it dials, then it dials, and dials and ... never really connects. I tried the 5.03.27 version of the driver but at one stage it asks me for the kernel source directory. Whether I leave it as /lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386 or I change it to the /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.10-5 , it says modversions.c couldn't be found. I've searched the entire computer but there is no file called so. And I've installed everything that starts 'linux' from the Synaptic. There's nothing starting 'kernel'. Should I install the kernel source from the net? (As u can guess, that's not at all possible...) The same thing happens when I tried to install the driver from SmartLink (I read somewhere that it works with Conexant ones and so tried it). As for now I've downloaded many packages from Windows (like gnome-ppp, info2www, e2tools), copied them to linux dirs and installed them but the process is clumsy. I have to manage all dependency things! It would be great if I could install one of those full version drivers(not this snail one) and get it to work! [ send green star] [ accepted]
SarahJane M.	July 26, 2005 12:21 PM Firstly, Sundara: thanks very much for that detailed feedback. Far more helpful than simply saying, 'it doesn't work'! I agree with you about the 'man' pages, and not just cos I'm a girl! They only seem to make sense to me once I've already worked out what I have to do, which is a bit useless. I rarely read them, preferring to trawl the user forums for answers. I'm just about to try the 5.03.27 package on my own Ubuntu, to see if I can work this one out. Back later! [ send green star] [ accepted]	(Member Is Blocked)
JohnBessa V.	Typical Modem on Ebay US $0.99 ship 4$ July 26, 2005 12:53 PM http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6786957316&category=3693&rd=1 [ send green star]
SarahJane M.	July 26, 2005 6:20 PM I've downloaded the kernel source as well, but that hasn't helped. I seriously don't think the old driver will work with Ubuntu, because loads of folk - including Linuxant - have said so in no uncertain terms. Back to the 7x version, though: Linuxant does have a mailing list, which I have checked before and found many helpful suggestions. I'll keep working on it and report back when I've cracked the problem (or cracked the computer, depending on how frustrated I get). [ send green star] [ accepted]	(Member Is Blocked)
JohnBessa V.	Wow.. July 27, 2005 6:15 PM so are about to compile a kernel !! Power to you, you are the fastest shooting star I have ever seen in 13 yrs of linux [ send green star]
SarahJane M.	July 28, 2005 12:58 AM Having fun, discovering my inner geek! I've already compiled kernels for Red Hat and Mandrake - followed the instructions from my old Linux Magazine from 1999, which still work cos, unlike Windoze, GNU/Linux remains consistent & logical. For those who haven't tried it yet: it takes a couple of hours, but the computer does most of the hard work. Don't change anything you don't understand, and you can't go far wrong. (Correction: "I haven't gone far wrong yet". Where computers are concerned, you can never be too careful!) A basic tutorial is available here. However, when I typed make menuconfig in Ubuntu, I was told that I needed to install ncurses-devel. Do I have to download that as well?! [ send green star] [ accepted]	(Member Is Blocked)
JohnBessa V.	Yeppers to everything July 28, 2005 7:39 AM Ncurses is the "windows" of text, it allows you to move the curser around the screen, like IBM mainframes. Truth is ... its a pain because all the little pieces are in packages all over the place, Linux, like most systems is a big plate of spaghetti. This is what I was trying to change in my Soy/OS, by using stripped down devil-linux.org I would add only the necessary binaries and libraries. MinGW, minimal gnu windows, is interesting to me because it transports Linux to Win32. Logically, only the completely necessary parts would make it into that setup. MinGW works usually in a Cygwin environment, but it doesn not use a DLL, it uses headers and therefore there are no dependant libraries for the resulting exe's, and they run fast and reliably. But getting back to the present topic, it makes sense to the WHOLE install, on a big disk from install disks, that way you know all the individual parts are there.. this is a serious weakness in Linux, inherited from the Corporate mentality that came bundled in Unix. [ send green star]
JohnBessa V.	PS.... July 28, 2005 7:40 AM Cheers to you, we need to start a compiling thread. I am SOOO happy !! [ send green star]
JohnBessa V.	Page and download for Conexant Winmodem August 09, 2005 11:52 AM This is for the driver that does not work on the new kernel.. as the page says, basically useless http://www.int21.de/conexant/ [ send green star]
SarahJane M.	August 09, 2005 1:28 PM I've used these drivers to set up many a connection. They work perfectly well with most 2.4.x kernels and, at the moment, are the only way many dial-up users can get online with Linux. Personally, I'd rather folk tried out an older distro with their existing connection, than put it off till they can afford new hardware / till DSL becomes available in their area. Also, please note that the popular (and excellent) router distros IpCop and Smoothwall are based on RedHat 8.0. So is Puppy Linux. And many folk still happily run their lives - mailing lists, servers and all - on 2.4.* distros. Old? Relatively, if you're the sort of person who considers dial-up itself as archaic. But useless? NO WAY! I don't believe in obsolescence - or ageism, for that matter. Please agree, or I'll hide your walking frame. I also believe that effective, open source drivers can and will be written, if the will is there. 2.6 is by no means too old to change ...! By the way, would I be right in thinking that there were elements of the 2.4 kernel that weren't broke, but were fixed anyway? Maybe that's what you/we should be looking at, rather than struggling to reconcile so many different variables. [ send green star] [ accepted]	(Member Is Blocked)
Diana C.	August 09, 2006 11:52 AM Um... is there anyway to make this, like, er, simple? This getting modemed 'n hooked up 'n all? [ send green star] [ accepted]
JohnBessa V.	August 10, 2006 12:19 PM I am in Nova Scotia, but if I weren't I would send you an old modem; I always check old computers, no matter how old, to see if there is an ISA modem in them. They are guarenteed. I have not done dial-up from linux for a while. I would have to review it. I have an external modem as well for my laptop but never needed to use it. Back when, I used minicom to dial in and then ctl-z ed it to halt the process when it had logged in to the carrier. Minicom relays the AT commands to the modem. Then I started pppd, which brought in the Internet. I imagine you are using Ubuntu, is that right ?? [ send green star]
JohnBessa V.	August 10, 2006 12:25 PM Here is a discussion on the topic; they use wvdial http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-11249.html It seems that once you get an IP connection to the ISP, DHCP will get the rest. [ send green star]
Diana C.	August 11, 2006 1:49 PM Thanks for your modem offer, John. Very kind. It would be nice, however, if I could hook this Ubuntu operated computer to the existing network here. The other two computers (ms operated) are networked on a Linksys etherfast cable/dsl router and the modem is a cable modem, motorola surfboard. Think that could work? Sarah Jane, hats off to you, bright star! Sundara, congratulations to you too! [ send green star] [ accepted]
JohnBessa V.	August 14, 2006 8:26 PM Sure, just set it to DHCP so it gets an IP address from the router [ send green star]
Diana C.	August 22, 2006 9:07 AM Hey. Thanks tons. I'm nearly hooked ... I hope! [ send green star] [ accepted]