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Definition of sustainable / sustainability October 03, 2005 7:59 AM

I'm helping to found a new nonprofit sustainability center in PA. We all understand (the board, etc) what sustainability is, but are struggling for a good definition that "the average bear" will understand. We need to make our mission (preserving a historic farm as a center for sust. agriculture, energy and living) acceptable and to define ourselves correctly as "sustainable, practical" not "environmental radicals" Ideas?  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Definition October 20, 2005 8:45 PM

I'm sure you could find a dictionary,but for me to be trully sustainable an organization must be sustainable in three ways. Financially. Socially Environmentally. Often we focus on the environment, but fail to consider the others.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 October 21, 2005 5:42 AM

But the definition of sustainability can't be "to be environmentally, socially and financially sustainable" - people are still left with the quesstion "what is sustainable" our nonprofit is struggling with this....we've come up with a couple ideas By balancing environmental, ethical and lifestyle demands and choosing to act in a way that doesn’t improperly prevent other people and species from living well long into the future. Another version of this principle, from the great law of the Iroquois Confederacy: “In our every deliberation, we must consider the impact of our actions on the next seven generations”  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Sustainable. October 23, 2005 4:52 AM

Your definition leaves some pretty vague holes. What does living well mean? Also how long is long? I think to be sustainable soemting must be able to be continued indefinately without harming, and hopefully helping the social, financial, and environmental situation of all effected.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 October 23, 2005 7:14 AM

I know it leaves holes...that's the reason I created the thread. Your definition comes close, but still seems to leave gaps. Lets keep looking...  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
DDT October 23, 2005 7:57 PM

When I think of sustainable, I think of organic living. When does the use of the natural powers of the earth, harvesting the land, burning fuel, violate the sustainable life style?  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Definition of sustainable / sustainability October 24, 2005 9:08 AM

Sustainable. This is one of the buzz words that many organizations use, and it can mean a million things, unfortunately. And when a new buzz word pops up (usually in the media) it's even more confusing for the people we are trying to reach. Since most of these concepts are "new," there is no single designated target market....YET! If there were, we could easily create a glossary and call it a day. One thing is to align with ecotourism (aka responsible, sustainable, green) organizations, which are now FINALLY incorporating agriculture into their work. It makes sense, as I’ve mentioned, rather loudly to certain NGO’s on numerous occasions. There ain’t no eco if the land is polluted by industrial agriculture and the project itself does not directly benefit the local people or the environment (it’s often the opposite in those lovely rainforest “eco” lodges). If the project is running the locals, flora and fauna out of town, that cannot be classified as “sustainable.” Forbes magazine might disagree if they are reporting on revenues only. Those of us who actually work on a wide range of bona fide "sustainable" projects need to simply state who we are what we do. But we also need to keep abreast of the buzz words and determine where we really fit in...and also if the general public is clear about those terms. Since the media is still confused, then the public is even more in the dark. One solution is for us to tell the media first, before they toss around any more new “sustainable” terms. For instance, our projects focus on the whole picture of Crete. We weave in history, nature, agriculture, culture & cuisine because that's what's happening here. Our aim is to guide visitors to the real people and the place – and away from generic mass tourism and unsustainable development, which continues to be devastatingly destructive. It's an all-local network that is beneficial to residents and visitors alike. Visitor fees go straight to the network participants. Word catches on and we hear from the small-scale organic olive oil producer in the mountains who says, YES, that’s me! Then, we add try to fit them into our already packed itinerary. So, we basically act as promoters for residents who are working in cultural heritage preservation. In Crete, food is the link to everything else. So, we fit into so many buzz word categories: ecotourism, agritourism, cultural heritage tourism, educational travel, community development, sustainable development...there's more. When we consider how to reach any designated "target market" out there, we have to wear different hats and describe our work differently. But it's still the same project! And when it comes to the media, it's even more important for sustainable-minded organizations to be very clear about their work. Otherwise, we'll continue to see New York Times, et al., pieces about "ecotourism" that is nothing of the sort. So, to try to keep our company's message simple, so people (those bears) can visualize what we do, we usually call our work "cultural travel!" But if anyone in the media ASKED us, we consider sustainable to be projects that DO protect the culture and natural beauty of a place -- large or small, popular for tourists or not -- not just in our lifetime, but forever. The Los Angeles Times recently did a blurb on our work. It was true to what we do... Here’s the link http://www.latimes.com/travel/la-tr-tc25sep25,1,7619199.column?coll=la-travel-headlines All the best to you on your projects! Nikki Rose  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
I assume a generation is October 24, 2005 9:43 AM

20 years ... going back to the Iroquois, that would mean that one would have to consider 140 years .... the car was invented less than 140 years ago .... so was the airplane .... Mendel's Laws of Heredity were published in 1866, almost 140 years ago ..... 1. did these inventions and thoeries cause the world to be more or less "sustainable"? 2. would the inventors and scientists have been able to predict the outcome of their inventions? I think when it comes to practicality, the notion of being able to predict whether something is sustainable for that period of time is really a very pretentious and arrogant one. It gives one a false sense of security. No one can disprove it. Only time will tell. Thus, I think that when dealing with the notion of "sustainability" one really needs to look at a considerably shorter window, such as one generation or less and build in a continuous evaluation system which will raise a red flag at very early stages and hope that it is not too late so that people are still willing to dismantle something which has taken a considerable time to develop and has become ingrained into the soio-economic system.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Is any sort of world tourism October 24, 2005 9:56 AM

sustainable? The industrialized world has become affluent enough to afford free time and allow one to travel great distances. This has generated the need to build an infrastructure to support the industry, including cruise ships, airplanes, airports, hotels, resorts, bed and breakfasts, etc. In addition, it has built local economies which are reliant on tourism currency to substantially sustain their soio-economic system. How quickly tourism dollars shrink and how well could local socio-economic systems recover to find new sources of industry. What will it take to have the entire system crash or pull back susbstantially? Is it possible? Is it likely? What are the key indicators which will give early warning signs?  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Definition of sustainable / sustainability October 24, 2005 10:21 AM

Yes, we are generally, if we are complacent, at the mercy of those who implement plans to "industrialize" our world. Does that mean that new development, infrastructure, etc., no matter how damaging -- now or later -- to support more tourism or progress should be acceptable? Should we just accept it, always, and do nothing to get involved to help improve it...or predict the outcome? Nikki Rose  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
In my view it can be October 24, 2005 11:00 AM

looked at at the micro and the macro level. The macro level is the "industrialization" aspect. By finding an opportunity and promoting it one creates a demand. Thus by being part of the larger system to create that demand, one, along with others, is the generator of the global infrastructure. You are in fact not at the mercy of the implementers, you are the one who creates the need of the infrastructure. Without it, you would not be able to carry on your business. At the micro level, you may be creating a tourism dependent community. What is the industry of the communities you visit? If tourism is only a small part of it, such as a working cattle ranch around here which takes in guests on occasion, then it is likely viable or sustainable for some time. If tourism becomes the new industry, because fishing has died off then it is merely a way to continue to survive. Then, should tourism die off, and it has in several places around the world due to fads, a new economy will have to be sought. Any new industry should ideally promote diversity of the local economy so that the region does not become dependant on a limited source of income. The thinking is that just as biodiversity is important in nature in order to increase the chances of survival of the system, economic diversity is important in socio-economic systems. So, if as a part of your business, you are promoting and assisting with diversifying the local economy, you have my vote as being a business which helps build a community rther than making or keeping a community vulnerable to outside influences.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Sustainable Tourism in Crete October 24, 2005 12:40 PM

There are two primary industries in Crete: agriculture and tourism. The way tourism promotion has been perceived and implemented by local authorities is light years away from logical grassroots efforts by individuals and communities for long-term (sustainable) strategies. Now, just 30 years after the major surge in tourism to Crete, and subsequent generic, western-style entertainment such as 500-room beach resorts, waterparks and golf courses, residents are seeing irreversible damage to their natural resources and culture. Crete suffers from a 6-month seasonal drought. We refer to it as "the water wars" between hoteliers and farmers. Hoteliers always seem to win. Where our food sources will come from, if the remaining farmers simply give up in just a few decades, is a serious issue. This may seem to be a simplistic view, in comparison to worldwide statistics and strategies proposed by those who live elsewhere (are not on THIS ground), but it is the reality of thousands of residents of Crete. Look at Spain as an example of unsustainable tourism. Other popular islands in Greece are already tapped to their limits in natural resources (usually fresh water)-- look at Rhodes. Crete might be headed in that direction if we sit back and do nothing. We cannot fix or change it all...but we are striving to try to change a little. Yes, tourism creates jobs...but for how long? If we run out of fresh water and pave over the paradise that people come to see, Crete has the real potential of becoming a non-destination...a wasteland for residents and visitors alike. That's all I have time to say. See our articles section for more info on sustainable tourism in Crete, and profiles of people working in cultural heritage preservation, ecology, etc. http://www.cookingincrete.com/Articles.html All the best, Nikki  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Life's sustainability October 24, 2005 11:55 PM

Ultimately sustainability refers to the continuity of Life's Living working support processes. Unfortunately we humans know very little about these systems as we are still naming the elements who make them up. Much less understand the delicasies of interdependencies which exist between them. There fore there is little to no reliability in truly understanding what the outcome of our impacts will be. I think it would be wise to limit our impacts on Lifes living working support systems, untill we can fully understand the outcome of impacts we place on them. Yet the greater human forces of social and economic pursuits are continuing in the use of existing processes which do produce impacts which are contributing to specie loss and environmental degradations. The loss and fragmentations of wildlife habitat for instance through community development practices. The massive conversion of entire areas of wildlife habitat to personal, public, and commercial uses. The conversion of large areas of habitat which form unnatural boundaries and fragments wildife populations from the previous advantages in availability. Unlike humans most wildlife must secure water, food, and shelter on a daily basis. Which many times under the influence of changes in weather, season, and climate, leaves them with the need to migrate small distances. Our development of new human communities and even our ever extending infrastructures of grade based highways are all increasing removing the availability of wildlife habitat. The populations are being increasingly fragmented and isolated. Even from the advantages of genetic exchange. And in my opinion this fragementation of habitat is not only a serious issue which needs resolving but that we actually do have ameans of resolving it. But the means of resolve, is being ignored because it posess a threat to the continued econonmic stability of in place processes. SO it seems to me. That if a change is to be accomplished then it will need to over ride the interest of continueing with the reliability of in place processes.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Is anyone out there working towards "sustainable" October 25, 2005 4:02 PM

Then, with all of this great philosophy must come action.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Social and economic sustainable actions October 25, 2005 9:41 PM

An aware person can take sustainable actions on a personal level. Yet the really big impacts are being produced by social and economic processes. Antiquated land uses, the common use of developed infrastructures who were put in place before thier unsustainable impacts were realized. Roads and highways consume and fragment habitat and are ecologically unsustainable. But community,state, and federal authorities keep implementing. How do you change these government actions? Does our society possess mechanisms which measure ecologial sustainability which can act on preventing development which presents itself as possessing unsustainable impacts. It would seem the EPA would be capable of such interventions. But they do not seem to be interviening!!! Or is the problem a lack of having a better choice in development to make. There does not seem to be an existing form of transport to chose from which does not fragment habitat. But there does seem to be a way to accomplis transport with out the fragmenting impacts. Yet it is not being developed and connot be considered until it has been so. Does a public interest mechanism exist which will fund such a development? Seems to me that we just continue with only chosing from the old and established ways, and non of which are ecologicaly acceptable.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 October 27, 2005 7:29 AM

many public interest investments (on a personal, private donor and public level) are being made...one of these actually prompted this thread. I started Ascushow.org and Practicalenvironmentalism.org (currently looking for volunteer content managers/contributors) to bring together the missions of many different groups and present a "practical" solution I'm employed by a group that is preserving a historic farm, bringing it back to sustainable agriculture, and planning all sorts of environmental/agricultural/sustainability educatin I also know of many business models and networks that support sustainable business problem is explaining to people what "sustainable" means simply, and combining the power of these distant and independent projects to work together and collectively (for none of us can do it independentlY) make the mission of sustainability a daily goal and common topic for most people. For one, help them understand that just because a product is disposable, it doesn't go away. I'm also running tv/radio ads in Northeastern PA (available free to any group that wants to use em) for conservation/sustianability But back to the thread....what is a simple definition for sustainability  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
Sustainable -- Ask Those Who Do October 27, 2005 9:04 AM

So, it's clear that "sustainable" cannot stand alone. Sustainable Development, Farming, Travel, still needs to be described...in a short description after the term. Anyone working on "sustainable" projects will tell you that it is ever evolving. Once you begin a sustainable organic farming project, you wind up working on community awareness and training projects that take you far beyond the initial idea to grow/save heirloom tomatoes. The same is true with sustainable travel, the more you work on it...the more you get involved in the bigger picture -- air, land and sea quality become important issues -- well beyond the concept of protecting the local people and environment at an invasive luxury rainforest resort. The sky is the limit because there are more un-sustainable projects out there than not. Farmers will be the first to tell you that if we don't "sustain" our soil...we will be in serious trouble much, much sooner than we think. The best thing to do is ask people who have worked on sustainable projects. Aside from the big ones like Conservation International, WWF, etc., here's a few examples: Wendall Berry, farmer: Just honored by Smithsonian Magazine http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian/issues05/nov05/35_berry.html Ecology Action Group (biointensive farming ngo) http://www.growbiointensive.org/ Sustainable Tourism Website http://www.sustainabletourism.net/ Sustainable Travel International http://www.sustainabletravel.com/ Common Ground Community http://www.commonground.org/ All the best on sustaining your sustainable projects! Nikki Rose  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 
 February 13, 2006 12:03 PM

In regards to the environmental aspect, I always thought this quote from Aldo Leopold's Sand County Almanac sums it up. However, it may be a bit verbose for what you are looking for, but may strike some ideas.

"A land ethic reflects the existence of an ecological conscience and this in turn reflects a conviction of individual responsibility for the health of the land. Health is the capacity of the land for self-renewal. Conservation is our effort to understand and preserve this capacity."

I agree strongly with Matt M. and others that sustainability extends beyond that of an enviromental aspect. To me, implenting sustainability in all the facets of life is what truly makes someone or something sustainable.

Mandy
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Re March 26, 2006 8:27 PM

Mission statement:

What is good for seven future generations of my children and their childrens children,

One must assume everyone does it, and plan for that... 

Decision trees can be drawn out and the consequences can be modeled, contrary to the opinion expressed above.

One example; cutting down one tree is OK if it is done by one person alone. Cutting down all forests worldwide, with billions of people burning the wood, is not OK. These issues can be talked about and planned for. It is not as hard to predict as it is being made out to be.

What is sustainable? For example; dams have numerous consequences and these can be illustrated specifically. Today, no one is talking about the effects dams have on seven future generations. It is better to have the discussion than to avoid it because it is too 'hard'.

It is almost impossible to get companies to project more than five years into the future.

For companies, 100% closed loop production is the key.

Everything that is produced must be accounted for. A car must be 100% recycled or composted. A TV must be dissasembled and the parts recycled, composted, or reused in some way.

Who pays for this? Ideally the company that produces the wast or pollution must pay for all of the disposal costs and environmental costs. Right now the opposite is true.

The Superfund is paid for by taxpayers now, where companies used to pay for it. Environmental pollution is paid for by taxpayers, even though a large part of it is generated by corporations. This will not change until corporations are kicked out of Congress, and public financing of all campaigns is a reality.

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]

 
Cleaning up corporations March 26, 2006 11:51 PM

Cleaning up corporations to act responsibly is a major problem wouldn't you say.

In my own observation corporate interest seem to possess all the political clout. Thier profit incentives will limit what they will and will not responsibly do.

Perhaps it is time to create and put in place a different kind of corporation. One which is formed in the interest of serving human well-beings.

I believe there is large opportunity now to form such a corporation from doing what the others have avoided doing. My study of transport and distribution infrastructures suggest that these providing corporations have been putting of the development of technological change for decades. As doing so insures the continued reliability of their investments and markets they serve.

They do not possess the incentive to invest in the development of a process which only promises to diminish the reliability and continuity of thier investments and markets. Good business is investing in processes which are growing in demand, not shrinking.

For instance take the petroleum industry for example.

Do they have the incentive to invest in and provide a infrastructure which will provide an excess of petroleum availability?

I suspect the petroleum industry does not have any incentive to provide sufficient petroleum to more than meet demands. That they profit greater from shrinking thier investment in the necessary infrastructure and causing supply fluctuations than in providing a steady and excessive supply.

My study of infrastructures suggest that if we would take the materials (concrete) commonly used in highways. Form the material into a partially or fully enclosed beam. And then attach to the beams rigidly controlled pathway, an electric motor. To which anything can be attached. Car truck bus or cargo container. Then the vast bulk of all transports energy and rsource consumptions could be simply removed. Along with accidents, petroleum dependency, and congestion. You could be traveling in your car at far higher speeds, in greater auttomated convenience and in a unprecedented safety.

This can all be accomplished with known technological and structural abilites from many decades ago. Its a fact and has never been developed.

The cost of doing so is not greater. Its about 1/5 to possibly 1/20 the cost of today. Electric motor are known to be 97% more energy efficient.

Essentially I think this can be accomplished with purely private funding. Forget the government its to politically responsive to its in place corporations.

The change is simple and it amounts to providing a permanent network of connected structures whose cost and benefits are very figurable. In competition with the transport system of today this one will be far faster and much less expensive. The nergy efficeny revenues alone in usage fees will generate a 300 to 400% annual profit.  

The issue to me seems to be the building of the awareness that such an lucrative opportunity exists and securing the significant interest it qwill take to bring it to a reality.

ANd I think large scale land developments groups are very capable of carrying it off. The land values along such an implementation will sky rocket as the communities created will have the unprecedented of being directly conected to and designed around automated transport abilities.

Geo@Eco-Developments.com

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Defining Sustainable Development March 27, 2006 3:47 PM

We run eco-agritourism programs in Crete, Greece.  It's called Crete's Culinary Sanctuaries.  The title seems laughable in some ways, as the sanctuaries are dwindling by the minute while Greek bureaucrats celebrate the opening of new golf courses that replaced lovely olive groves...the symbol of Crete.

After 12 years of working on action programs to promote sustainable tourism (which always includes development strategies) in Crete, one of the many things I've learned is that we have to live it and fight for it tooth and nail.  Not to mention hitting rock bottom financially and still moving on faster and more determined than ever, regardless of the logical red light to walk away and let the whole project come to a screeching halt.  Why save Crete?  People think New York is a wonderful place to live...as clean and green as it is.

Once we climbed many mountains and became internationally recognized for our work...then the Greek government suddenly appeared to offer to take a bow on our behalf.  They must do this because we seem to have come out of the woodwork to try to save a few pockets of paradise...and they have to acknowledge our presence because it looks good for them.  Besides, they are speakers at the awards ceremony and it would be ...uncomfortable...for them ask, after the fact, "What is Crete's Culinary Sanctuaries, what are they doing anyway and why should we care about this little stuff?" 

At first, the "bow" idea was a blow for us...since they have actually deterred us from doing our "good" work and have never given us the time of day until now.  In reality, we will hmmm...happily let them pretend to be supporters of our project, while we tell everyone else the truth.  At least they are listening and forced into...writing a speech about sustainable blah blah as they see it, if nothing else.  Our award and work may be just another block on the agenda...if we let this opportunity pass us by.  

If they are wise bureaucrats, they might do a little research on what sustainable development action programs might entail...as suddenly there seems to be many pesky ones popping up in their back yard like weeds...possibly threatening their plans for another golf course or sprawling, culture and energy sucking resort hotel.  Hopefully, they will come to the conclusion that action is not simply another conference in Zurich in 2010 to delay any action until 2020.  But that's virtually how sustainable tourism has been "addressed" for the past 30 years, aside from a few great projects that break through the bureaucracy.

The biggest challenge is for us to link local authorities with people who can provide proper training in sustainable tourism action programs.  Otherwise, they have no idea how they can help us or how they can easily prevent the ongoing virus of terminator tourism.  This is the brick wall we have had to chip away at, bit by bit to get there! 

Mass tourism generates massive bucks for everyone but the local people...in most every destination.  Search and destroy sanctuaries if it's good for "the" economy.  It might be briefly beneficial for the local economy until the place becomes a wasteland, like Spain's dilemma last year, and everyone searches for another sanctuary to destroy.  That's the reality. 

There is a brick wall between the thinkers/idealists and the doers in the travel industry in general.  Look at the line-up for the New York Times Travel show last month.  There was barely a whisper of responsible travel in that massive convention center.  Unless people try to break through this wall with action programs...we'll see a lot of frustration, environmental and cultural devastation, and very little positive results.

All the best to the doers out there!

Nikki Rose

www.cookingincrete.com

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