Message from:

 Welfare for Animals in Greece

Welfare for Animals Global, Inc.

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PLEASE CROSS POST to ALL GROUPS  and DISTRIBUTE WORLDWIDE

6/22/05—The Greek Myth About Animal Welfare
KINSHIP CIRCLE LETTER CAMPAIGN
http://www.kinshipcircle.org
1 letter

SOURCE OF INFORMATION:
TwinkiePerkyEbby@msn.com
Marijo Anne Gillis - Founder
Welfare for Animals  in Greece / Welfare for Animals Global, Inc.
(a New York  non-profit advocacy & lobby group)
Contact info sources:
http://www.primeminister.gr/gr/lang/en/contact.asp
http://wwwprimeminister.gr/gr/lang/en/ministries.asp
http://www.greekembassy.org/

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Please note properly formatted e-mail block and letter for copy and paste.

info@primeminister.gr ; pressoffice@primeminister.gr ; info@mintour.gr ; mfa@mfa.gr ; cio@mfa.gr ; Info@Ypai.gr ; generalenquiries@noc.culture.gr ; w3admin@culture.gr ; minjust@otenet.gr ; evie@greekembassy.org ;  emarinak@tui.gr ; paravantes@cityofathens.gr ; anastasi@cityofathens.gr ; editor@ekathimerini.com ; elef@enet.gr ; elet@enet.gr ; info@apogevmatini.gr ; tanea@dolnet.gr ; zougla@otenet.gr ; espresso@espressonews.gr ; Twinkieperkyebby@msn.com ; info@archenoah-kreta.com

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All 4 support !

Lets show them that this "Greek Myth" is dicgrace!

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if U need further info- post your questions and we will try to provide answers 4 you

again

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SENT OUT MY 2ND MAILING TO ALL OFFICIALS, ENTITLED IT "GREECE'S SHAME".

 To all the babies in Greece who have lost their lives.

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_{Thanks Charlene! Has a boycott of China thread been done yet?!}

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Helen, U dont know whats going on- I was in Greece also so many times- my best friend is married there and live there! U cant judge this by your last visit...

and woman that leads this campaing ( is from New York- read its all over the topic) and lived in Greece more than 10 years- THIS IS REAL and this is  happening right now since Olimpic Games... and people are lobbying all over this world for this stroy- so if U need informations - just ASK  

P.S. Greek tourism decilned for 30%  becuase of this!

and your notification that I am from serbia is nothing new... because I am capaining for Boycott of Serbia here 6 months! U should ask before U judge people.

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Actually the original message was sent via e-mail to lots of people.Jelena just crossposted it so dont you dare assume she had anything but compassionate reasons for posting it.

The message came from Marijo Gillis who runs Welfare for animals in Greece. It is a valid action campaign on behalf of the thousands of stray and abused animals in Greece.

We crosspost all campaigns regarding animal welfare and despite what you are say, a lot of European countries have terrible animal welfare issues.

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New investigation reveals hanging horror in Spain

A new investigation by WSPA has exposed the way in which thousands of Spanish greyhounds (known as galgos), are hanged following the end of the hare coursing season at the start of each year.

The results of the investigation, carried out in the Castilla y Leon and Castilla la Mancha regions of Spain in March this year with the assistance of Spanish organisation Scooby (Sociedad Protectora de Animales Scooby), reveal widespread evidence that the age-old tradition of hanging dogs in Spain continues to this day. WSPA estimates that tens of thousands of galgos are being bred and killed annually in rural areas.

WSPA discovered dead dogs with nooses around their necks dumped in shallow graves or lying under trees where they had been hung and, on a rubbish tip outside the village of Rueda near Tordesillas, investigators witnessed the gruesome sight of a dead galgo hanging from a willow tree. The skeletal remains of galgos were commonplace as well as evidence of hung dogs being set on fire, with melted nooses hanging above fresh bones and ash on the ground below.

WSPA also learnt how dogs that have raced poorly are typically hung low in a slow death known as 'the piano player' due to the frantic scrabbling of their legs in a vain attempt to touch the ground. Those who have raced well are hung high, resulting in a quicker death. Unwanted galgos may also be stoned, tied up and left to starve, staked in a pond and left to drown or thrown into wells and set on fire.

Alistair Findlay, a WSPA investigator, said, "It is scandalous that Spain, a country currently holding presidency of the European Union, is allowing man's best friend to be so cruelly and callously abused in this manner. This is a graphic example of why a national animal welfare law is so desperately needed in Spain."

At present, it is not illegal to kill a dog by hanging in Andalucia and Extremadura, where there are no animal protection laws. In Castilla y Leon, a law threatening a fine of 15,000 Euros (£39,540) to anyone hanging a dog has yet to be enforced.

But there is hope. A few dogs do get spared of this cruel death and are taken to Scooby's shelter, set up in 2000. Fermin Perez is in charge and he and his team endeavour to nurse the dogs back to health, neuter them and put the dogs into a re-homing scheme; "We need more support and awareness that this is still going on and we need to stop this now." said Fermin Perez.

WSPA has written to the Spanish authorities, calling on this EU member state to finally adopt a national animal welfare law that would outlaw such cruelty.

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it looks to me that this was started by a greek, and a serbian bought it to our attention == fortunately, we have the benefit of having greek journalists on this list, and they confirm this problem and this effort has been going on for some time -- keep the pressure up - and helen, if you percieve theres a greater problem in the usa, then please do something positive about it

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Oh, Boris  

4 explanation Boris - I was afraid that I was dreaming this... and that some dark foce took over my computer and made this camapign

THX man

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Charlene I did not saw U

BTW 4 sending that letter to Zagreb yesterday (no testing on Beagles ) we will pressure them... and I will post what happened on protest .. THX again

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I lived in Spain for 3 years,completely unaware of what was going on with the hunting dogs there.

The next time I went out was to work in a rescue sanctuary where I saw for myself the horrific cruelty that goes on.Until you hear about these things and see for yourself you can remain none the wiser very easily.

Often this is occuring in rural areas (like in Spain) where they dont have tourists visiting.

This is not to say I have anything against the Spanish people.On the contrary the people running the sanctuary were Spanish and a lot of Spanish people I spoke to had no idea this was going on either!

If you were to spend a week with Marijo-no doubt you would see for yourself what is going on in Greece.As Boris says.If you are so upset about what is happening in the USA you can do something about it.Please dont try and sabotage other peoples campaigns via network message (which I just received)

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"I noticed that the person starting this is from Serbia, so I am wondering if this is political instead of humanitarian"

and what political reason  could  it be ? Serbia is so minor, irelevant ... it even looks like Serbia do not exsist at all - lol

I am realy by this statement... assuming that you dont know nothing about Central Balkan... and its neigbours...

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and who says we dont help animals at home as well??

Does that mean we shouldn't help any other animals in the world

Like Whales being slaughtered in Iceland,seals in Canada,Cats and dogs being fur farmed in China

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" I lived in Athens for 10 months "

that is not enough ... its just not enough- I live in Serbia 25 years and I still cant believe what is happening in here- and I am learning everyday about new abuse, torture, negleckt... pain, hate...

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until February 1998.

One thing I noticed was the lack of stray animals.  I even asked about it, because I am a military brat, and I have lived a lot of different places.  Of all the places I have lived, I have always noticed stray animals.  It was weird to be in a place that did not have stray animals. 

I am a very analytical and curious person.

So I asked.

*  I learned that during WWII, Greeks were literally starving to death by the thousands.  So even pigeons and dogs were fed upon for survival.  It became so that not even a pigeon could be found and the only dogs were those owned by the Germans.

*  I learned that because of the scarring (emotional) from WWII, many people would feed the dogs poisoned meat to kill them because the Germans used the dogs to torture and kill the Greeks during WWII.  This still happens today where an old woman will feed a dog poisoned meat because she remembers WWII and the German dogs.

*  I learned that dogs are very valued and expensive in Greece.  I have a friend that would love a Bull dog in Greece.  I tried to find him one while in Greece, but was unable to.  This was in Athens.  Hunting dogs are also very valued also, and he told me how expensive his friend's 2 hunting dogs were.

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You did not notice?

OMG,

and...do U know how many Serbs were brutally starved and killed thru centuries- and those same Serbs are murdering stray animals on streets of Belgrade on most vicious ways, on those same streets where Turks killed so many Serbs… starvation does not make U noble and kind!

So, U think that because Greeks were staved they are noble and kind!

That’s  “a bull …” and U know it!

What an miss information came to U

Very sad- 4 one "military brat"

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 "Hunting dogs are also very valued also, and he told me how expensive his friend's 2 hunting dogs were."

U just said it- that is exploitation and money- there is no love!

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Thanks you for all the information. It is horrible that man or beast must suffer, any place, any time. If taking 2 seconds to sign a petition that might help save the warm or cold blooded from cruelty, I'm there.

It is too bad that some people take the opportunity to blow their own horns in threads like this, instead of support.

I, too help animals in the USA, but don't think that means that they should suffer else wear.

My gosh what is wrong with this woman.

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I never stated that.

I was asked a question of how I came about my statement, and I answered.

If you want to misinterpret it, that is your right.

As for what is wrong with me?  I believe in fairness.  I have seen too many people in care2 jump on a bandwagon for a cause just to discover it was a hoax or there was missinformation.  I prefer to deal with facts, not propaganda.

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Helen, if this is what you have said:

“I was asked a question of how I came about my statement, and I answered.”

Then you are totally NOT relevant 4 this story and there for I am not wasting one minute more on debating about Greeks!

People, Lets move on…if someone have any questions- for leader of this campaign ( because, I am sending all this to her as well),  she can answer anything you need to  know .

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I could not find anything to back up your claim, but there were several sights that talked about Greeks starving in WWII, so they did eat anything they could come across including dog.  That is not brutality.  That is survival.

I also checked with different embassy pages including U.S. and Serbia about starvation...and I found this on Greece's:

World War II
Greece was still ruled by dictatorship when World War II broke out. But in spite of their differences, the Greeks sided unanimously with the Allies and rejected the Italian ultimatum presented on October 28, 1940 by which Italy sought free passage for its troops. The Greeks were successful in repulsing the attack and drove back the Italians 60 km. beyond the Albanian border. On April 6, 1941, Germany attacked and Hitler's armies marched into Greece. The government and the king went into exile. The “Occupation” was a particularly hard time for Greece. Starvation decimated the population while executions and deportations rounded off the catastrophe.

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If you have a link or something that says this is a hoax that would be wonderful and helpful.

But all you have said is what you precieve after a short stay on a military facility.

You offer no reference material.

Please let us know if this is not correct, but something concrete that we can all read, see, hear so we can make our own intellectual choices.

Just because one claims to be intelligent does not mean that their opinion is the same an anyone elses with the same intellect.

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Let me get this correct.

The FACT according to you is that the problem in the US is 'hundreds of times worse than in Greece?'

and the 'propaganda' is us saying there is animal cruelty in Greece

and I dont know where you were looking but I typed into Google

'dogs starving greece'

and this is what it brought up - in 2 seconds.Look for yourself

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=dog+starving+greece&meta=

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I explained that several times already...

There are some people who lived through WWII, and were terrorized by the German dogs.  These elderly people have been known to feed poison meat to dogs.  What do you want to do, have elderly people arrested and victimized even further because of emotional scars they have from WWII?  That is rediculous.  I am only 41, so I will not pretend that I know what it is like for them.  I grew up with dogs that were wonderful to me.  I love dogs.  But there are some people who used dogs to brutalize others, and this was known to happen in WWII.  A tourism boycott of Greece will not solve this problem.  Eventually, all the survivors of WWII will be dead, and then so will the poisoning.  I hope you will not take credit for this when it happens.

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Greek or Greece Animal Cruelty.

Its there and in mass.

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Why do you keep going on about World War two????

Is this some kind of defense tactic?

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I did not have dogs first when I googled.  I see it makes a difference.

I checked out the web sites.  They are activist web sites...PAWS...but no news web sites.  It is a propaganda web site.  I can take a picture of my cat laying outside and claim that it is a stray can dead by the road.  How will you know the difference.

We need to remember how to question information again.  Just because it is on television, or on the internet, does NOT mean it is fact.

I walked a LOT in Athens, and I recognized two of the dogs...they have owners.  there is no leash law (or it is not obeyed) in Athens.  What the site shows as strays are NOT strays.  They are taking pictures of dogs in a park (these dogs are not on a leash, but they have owners...at least I know 2 of them do) and they claim they are strays.  It is propaganda by PAWS.  We see this sooo much at political conventions and you see people doing it with the news media. 

I would like to see FACTS, not propaganda.  If I had not lived in Greece myself, and walked all over Athens every day, I may have believed you and signed your petition.  But because I did live in Athens for 8 months, and was an avid urban hiker, and again, I asked a lot of questions, I think the tourism boycott of Greece is wrong.

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It is an explanation.

It explains why some of the elderly do poison dogs.  I admit that.  A tourism boycott of Greece will not solve this.

It also explains why there cannot be as many strays in Greece as you claim.

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Everyone understand how you feel and now you must respect everyone elses views.

Thanks for you input.

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Yes we must be making it all up then

UNBELIEVABLE!!!

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I CAN'T TAKE ANYMORE!

CONSIDER YOURSELF CHUCKED OUT OF MY GROUP!!!!

AND DONT COME BACK!!!!

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and you forgoth to add...

 Saboteur !!!!!  it looks like she works for Greek tourist org.

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"oh yes - people want all the breed dogs but not for the right reasons - for fashion ! Hunting dogs ??? ! This is what happens to hunting dogs when they don't measure up - or they are unwanted - this hunting dog was dumped and I don't mean one or two ! - I took it into our shelter in Salonica to care for it - it took months to build this poor animal back up and he did find a good home, where he could finally live a loving and healthy life ! WE MOVED ON FROM WAR EXCUSES LONG AGO !"

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Never mind, only hosts can see it.

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This so terrible...I know that this can be all over the globe!poor baby!I just can feel so much pain about all the animals and pets around the world.

This is so sad...Im still crying

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WE CAN DO? I cant boycott a country....but we can maybe boycott some other companies that are just way too greedy and not helping to promote the spay and nuture of pets.

Im telling you this cause I am doing a campain here in Mexico to help pets and many of the Big brands of pet food deny me the possibility to make an advertising campaing to care of animals in Mexico...so...Maybe if this companies are willing to help things might be better.

Just an idea...

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I have been reading all the messages within this thread, mmmm, peeps do get very over heated and emotional, understandable, but doesn't actually solve anything, neither does boycotting really as the only peeps to really suffer from that are the workers and mass of that nation, which could increase the cruelty. We can't *teach* the older folks anything really but we can lead by example. And we can mould young minds, so we should be writing to the makers of childrens programmes and putting the message across subtly there, when we are too forceful we only put peoples backs up. Nobody likes to be told what to do. Also it gives them the right to turn the tables , non of us live in a perfect country. Here in Andalucia Spain there are hundreds of *campo* dogs, they have descxended from the English who when they fled Spain they left their dogs, so now the campo dog exists, very intelligent and either resembling lurchers or terriers, I was adopted by one of the smaller ones within a couple of months of arriving. The trouble here is they do not see themselves as being cruel, it's just their way, also poverty in this area dictated that one didn't spend money on animals/vet bills. The other is they are unable to have an animal destroyed to them that is cruel. The ticks hee are just as wicked and my first summer in the campo I spent most of my time de ticking the dogs that belonged to the finca we were staying at, sadly the one dog died the following year due to Leishmanns, which comes from mosquitoes and nothing is known until the following year.

We have so many animal rescue centres here, but it is a long hard process, but there is a new generation growing up witnessing this and slowly things are changing, but these things take time and we do have to take into consideration the cultures of the different peeps, it would be lovely if all peeps could be kind hearted to all animals and peeps.

love n light to all

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Dear Monica, U dont have to boycott country- people- just boycott their tourism- go to holliday this year to Italy or... what ever

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Jelena-You are not flagged yet,but you could be!

I cant say I'm not expecting it any minute

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Harlee,

Things ARE changing because people like U exist, because all around the world action is taken… we all work very hard and if this looks to someone like a “pajama party” - while trying to destroy one story that took so many hours of hard work… by  talking about past and survivals….

I know all U said is true, but that’s just one + in this row of  - - - - - - 

I, We know that people are not just “BAD to the bone” there are so many noble souls pushing forward… so I know that eventually “good side” will win

so keep saving dogs and if U need some help about those Ticks, let us know- those dogs should get some protection against Ticks… we (care2 members)  connected to the World -can do

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Never mind, only hosts can see it.

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and we have  "flag 4 review"

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Monica,

  I now see... what U said, and I am sending your question to Marijo in New York … I will post what she said..

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Don't you think that working to ameliorate the socioeconomic conditions which breeds these animal abuses would be a better method through which to affect your desired changes?  Helping individual animals is a commendable practice, but limited in scope, where rectifying the sources of the problem would be a more feasible approach?

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No Place is perfect. Certainly not the USA.

Thank you for your PERSONAL AND REAL experience and thanks for leaving ancient history and personal feelings out of it.

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I admitted that animals in Greece were poisoned, but I gave the reason I was told in Athens.  It seemed logical, and could not find any other reason.  It is nice to read another logical explanation behind it.

I also agree with Pelagus.  She makes a good point.

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and the point was that activists should send letters to Greek officials since they are the target of this action-

so start sending those letters!

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Still I need an answer about where this stats of 30% decline in Greek tourism comes from…

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Helen, U dont know whats going on- I was in Greece also so many times- my best friend is married there and live there! U cant judge this by your last visit...

and woman that leads this campaing ( is from New York- read its all over the topic) and lived in Greece more than 10 years- THIS IS REAL and this is  happening right now since Olimpic Games... and people are lobbying all over this world for this stroy- so if U need informations - just ASK  

P.S. Greek tourism decilned for 30%  becuase of this!

and your notification that I am from serbia is nothing new... because I am capaining for Boycott of Serbia here 6 months! U should ask before U judge people.

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"Greek tourism decilned for 30%  becuase of this!"

 (I waited and waited for response from original source of this action and  I did not got response )

and after researching  I have heard that this statement is not true!

...sorry that I said something witch I did not check out first - but after I talked to some relevant persons- I have to say that greek tourism DID NOT decline- on the contraire- tourism rise.

sadly that means that Animals are not so important in the eyes of the tourists...

But also I want to say that  facts regarding animal neglekt and abuse are TRUE!

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I don't think your motives are politically motivated, since Serbians and Greeks are traditional orthodox brothers.  If you were a Croat, maybe I would have thought otherwise.

Nevertheless, it is ridiculous to boycott Greece because the people who would be losing would be the poor.  Tourism is Greece's biggest industry, and without it the people would starve.  Many towns count on the summer months for most of their yearly income.  All would be hurt.  And I don't think the majority are to blame for this.

Furthermore, this problem is worldwide.  I believe Romania has rabid dogs running on the city streets where they are shot daily.  There are amny animal rights problems all over the world, the worst being in all the countries no one dare boycott.  I believe Greece is a scapegoat.

Finally, after all I have said, itshould be evident that you prefer humans to suffer more than animals.  Neither should have to suffer, but i think humans are more important than animals. 

I need to perhaps reclarify that all animals should be treated well.  But for the above reasons, this whole thread is moot.

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I boycott China for dog & cat fur farming

Spain for hanging dogs

Greece,Turkey,Romania & Serbia for their treatment of stray animals

Canada for the seal hunt

Korea-eating cats & dogs

If we were all to do this these countries would soon be hit in the only place they care about-their wallets & maybe would introduce some laws to protect animals & wildlife.

Humans are NOT more important than animals.when will we learn to live together in harmony?

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Why do we have anon posts on this group???

Seems if you want to bash someone, you should know who is bashing???

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I dont want to debate. I posted all reasons and who agrees with it- he is welcome to support this.

who does not like it- he is free to do what ever .. I did my part...

*cheers

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Silk, there is no doubt, and almost all in Peta would agree, that a human life is more important to a human than non-human life.  A tigre would save its kin before saving us.  It is ridiculous to think that you would go after a dog drowning a few metres away from a child drowning.  Or would you let them both drown in the name of equality?  Do you also boycott Chinese products because of their violations of human rights?  Or doesn't that matter because you can shop for cheaper at Walmart?  We need to understand that there arte certain levels to everything.  If Greece were killing people for no reason, than I would jump on the bandwagon against them, especially if not all these other countries were doing it.

Anonymous, why would you not reveal your identity?  I would certainly like to send you a star and you make good points.  Maybe you are afraid you will get kicked out of some fringe group.

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I notice that the other anonymous person in this thread was not questioned, perhaps because they were attacking someone who was brave enough to give their name and question the majority. This is why i do not give my name.

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been to greece and seen lots of stray dogs, countless dogs, skinny and scared of people, e-mailed to different places

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