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Spotting FRAUDS!!! June 05, 2005 7:09 PM

Kicka mentioned:

Im a very skeptical person in my own right.

Not to the idea of psychic mystery, but to some people who openly claim they are.

I mean, there are major hoaxters out there, that really put a damper on this.

How can we tell if we are in the presants of someone truely with this gift, or just a faker who is on a power or money kick?

This is worthy of it's on discussion thread I believe, so hope you don't mind Kicka that I moved this

The fact is, we are all born with ESP... children tend to be more sensitive then many adults only because it has not been drilled out of them, or taught to them that it is NOT real...

But there are as you stated a lot of HOAXSTERS out there... a lot that LIE, and claim to be this or that and are NOT! And this is so very sad because it gives those of us that are bad names.

SO... let's address things to look out from so called Psychics and Mediums and Readers...

  • IF they need your birthdate... full birthdate like year, month and day... be skeptical! There are many computer generated readings and all they need is a full birthdate to plug in and volia you have a computer reading in often seconds! A real psychi may only need the year you were born... and granted a few may need the YEAR and MONTH or Month and Day... but never a FULL unless you are getting an astral chart... and be cautious on those... they can be computer generated as well!
  • There are many Psychics, Mediums and Readers that feel it is bad karma to CHARGE for a reading... but let me tell you... if a reading is REAL... a LOT of tiem and effort goes into a reading, and the reader should be compensated. But YOU should not be ripped off either. So... look out for the readers that ask for an arm and leg.
  • ASK for references! I know myself that I have done many readings... and several of those I have done readings for would be more then willing to share their honest thoughts and opinions on my readings. But again, you have to be weary... folks will lie for a dollar! So listen to your own GUT instincts when it comes to readers as well.
  • IF a reader needs your FULL name? To me, that is boggus... I do NOT ever need a full name fo a reading... because I have the ability to feel and see things about the subject. All I need is that initial connection, via a name, or touch... if I touch, I don't EVEN need a name!
  • Don't fall into being questioned by a so called psychic... you could be inadvertantly providing them with info to mek the LOOK like they know what they are talking aobut...i.e. you have suffered a loss recently... give me a break, MOST of us have suffered some kind of loss recently from a job, to a set of keys, to a blip in memory, to the loss of a loved one... and with such a Vauge statment... it is easy for YOU to fall into that quesiton with... YES... I did loose something! A real psychic will give you a bit more detail! i.e. you have recently lost a loved one wihtin the past few weeks. or you have recently lost something silver and shiny...which would be the keys! MOre specifi then You lost something!

I hope others will share tips... and I plan on sharing more as well

 [ send green star]
 June 05, 2005 7:11 PM

One of the difficulties for clients is that we all seem to work differently. Some clairvoyants will see pictures. Others will see symbols of the future. Some will hear voices. Others will pick up a strong “awareness”. Some will literally “read” your palm or birth chart.

So how on earth do you SPOT THE FRAUD...


Unfortunately this is very common, and there is even a ‘Fraudulent Mediums Act’ which was passed in 1951 in order to control such people. However, this particular law is virtually unenforceable, and I believe that there has only ever been one prosecution .

True mediumship is amazing, and can even be great fun, both for the sitter and the medium as conversation with the “Spirit World” does not have to be serious. But it is very easy to fake.

Danger signs for Clients:

Is the message specific, or can it be applied to anyone? It's all to easy for the medium to make a few suggestions, one of which might well be somewhat near the truth -and then for you as a sitter to become so completely hooked that you fully believe that you are getting a genuine message.

But just think for a minute.

How many people would have passed over with "chest pains"? Quite a lot.

How many people had a "connection with water"? Quite a lot

"Trouble with stairs", "a childhood toy", etc etc. All I am saying, is be very, very, careful before accepting the obvious.Tidings of comfort and joy are all very well, but are they appropriate. If the deceased was a grumpy old miser in this life, it’s very unlikely that they would now be beaming sweetness and light! A true message will also probably contain small items of trivial information which is only known to you. This is a good sign that the message is genuine.

Don’t worry if the medium asks a few questions about the deceased. This is very often necessary in order to make a strong link. But be careful if you are then only fed back what you have just said! It is sometimes better just to give the medium a personal item of the person you wish to contact, or show them a photograph.

However, always remember that a medium is not a telephone. And those on the “other side” can’t always be contacted just when you want to. And is the deceased even there? Have they moved onto another plane? Or maybe they are busy doing something else!!! Think of it from your own point of view, would you spend your time hanging around psychics just hoping that they’d pass on messages!

Sometimes the age that the person has died at is a relevant factor. There obviously is no hard and fast rule, but it does seem that many of those who die young disappear from the contactable spirit world quite quickly. If you are a believer in reincarnation, you might consider that possibly they have already returned to earth. On the other hand, people who have lived a long life may be too “tired” to make contact. Would you want to be woken up at 3.00 in the morning just to be asked if you were O.K.? So, in general, if a medium guarantees to be able to make contact, they are almost certainly fraudulent . We cannot command or control the spirit world, any more than we can change the tides and seasons!

A frequent trick of the fraudulent medium is the “Don /Ron /John” technique

 [ send green star]
 June 05, 2005 7:12 PM

It goes as follows:

“I have someone here on the other side, I think his name is Don.”

No response

“No, maybe it’s Ron”

No response

“Wait a minute, it’s coming through clearly, I can hear him now, it’s definitely John”

By which time most sitters will have identified someone in their lives with one of those names!

There is also a similar technique where the “medium” declares that

“I have someone here called Mary. “

No response

“Is she possibly an aunt?”

No response

“She may well be an old family friend...”

Just think to yourself, why on earth would that particular Mary (or Susan, or Tom) want to get in touch with you of all people! Especially if you haven't a clue who they are.

But maybe the “medium” has hit on a name you do relate to. Some names are very common for a particular generation -is this any proof that the medium has contact with the right Don, Mary or Susan? Again you need to look for specific information, if the contact is genuine then you will receive information that you alone can understand. Occasionally this may even be a favourite word or catch phrase that the deceased frequently used. You alone can be the judge of this.

Warnings to Mediums:

All of us who work in this field doubt our own ability from time to time. If you don’t then you’re probably deluding yourself. There are times when mediumship does not happen, and you certainly can’t guarantee that you can make contact with a specific person. You client may be grasping at straws, there may not be anybody there for them and you must never build up false hopes. Watch out for the Don/Ron/John trick! Never, ever just throw names out on the chance that your client will relate to one . If there is no information then it’s best to be honest and say so.

We know when there is a spirit presence. We are all affected differently, but usually there is some sense of tingling in the spine. The best thing then is to stop thinking and say what you are given to say. And if the client doesn’t relate to the message then don’t try to push your luck

 [ send green star]
 June 05, 2005 7:12 PM


As the future obviously has not yet occurred, how on earth can you tell if someone is genuinely clairvoyant or is just faking it? To make matters worse, all clairvoyants hate being “tested”, and even just asking them to tell you something you know already almost always raises a barrier between you and your Reader.


Firstly, you will have to make a judgment based on the clairvoyant’s publicity material. Remember, that this is their sales pitch, and if not actually written by the person in front of you will certainly have been approved by them.

Watch out for a few over used statements:

“You’ve probably read my book/magazine articles etc”

No, but you are too polite to say so.

“My clients return to me again and again”

Do they really? Why? A good reading will last for years.

“I have given readings to Film Stars/Politicians/Royalty?”

So what!!! In this type of work we all often come into contact with the rich and famous. And beware anyone who publicly names a client. Our work is totally confidential, and unless the reader can show you the written endorsement of the client (and if they can they will!) then that statement must be suspect.

“Internationally famous”

So in which other countries are they so famous? And does the reader speak any languages other than English?

“As seen on T.V.?”

The media take a great deal of interest in us. I would expect any experienced clairvoyant to have been asked to appear on the various chat shows that regularly try to debunk the subject . However some such shows deliberately pick the weakest and most easily discredited clairvoyant they can find, so just because someone has been on T.V. does not mean to say that they are any good! The question here is which programmes has this person appeared on. Are we talking about well researched mainstream national programmes, or low budget local late night shows?

Of course, all of us readers make these claims. Don’t automatically reject them. After all they are usually genuine. However, if the clairvoyant is claiming any spectacular successes, then they will almost certainly be carrying a scrap book of press cuttings to back them up.

Many readers will use generalised astrological statements. such as “You are a Sagittarian therefore you are definitely very lucky”. This of course is total rubbish, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. One twelfth of the human race are not lucky just because they happen to be born during late November or early December!.

 [ send green star]
 June 05, 2005 7:13 PM

If someone one claims to be a practising astrologer, and then just gives you Sun Sign predictions, then then they are definitely not genuine! True astrologers use your full date of birth, and all the planets as the basis for a reading. Ideally you should also know your time of birth, but if you don’t then the astrologer will either construct what is known as a “Solar” chart, or, if they are capable of it, will work out themselves what time of day you were probably born at.

Be careful of astrologers that simply “blind you with science”. Statements like “I see that you have Mars in Capricorn, therefore you are very good at business, but Saturn transiting your 7th house will bring relationship difficulties” are all very well, but if you don’t understand what you are being told then please ask for a clearer explanation!

Also, what is the clairvoyant’s track record? Have they any firm proof of past successes?

Again, be careful here, we’ve all been “tested” in this way before, and the slick fraud will always have anticipated an answer. A competent reader may well have some press cuttings in which an independent journalist has commented on his or her accuracy. But again, this doesn’t happen nearly as much as we’d like it too. The press are all too quick to condemn our failures, and rarely report our successes!

Sometimes it helps to ask other clairvoyants as to their opinions of a particular reader -but beware professional jealousies. Psychics have a tendency to see all potential rivals as inferior beings!

 [ send green star]
 June 05, 2005 7:28 PM

The Pseudo-Psychic

You won’t loose money to this fraud, they never charge. In fact they usually delight in telling you that True Psychics (like themselves of course) never accept payment. From a professional point of view they are a mere irritation. So why mention them? Simply because they get the rest of us a bad name -and if you are not careful their price is higher than any amount of mere cash.

You frequently meet them at pubs and parties. They will grab your hand, look deeply into it, mutter something like “Amazing, very interesting” etc, and leave you yearning for more. They will tell you that they know things about you they are not “allowed” to reveal. If they are clever, they may well also use some of the tricks of the commercial fraud. You will probably also be told of some unbelievably amazing events that they alone can see in your future. And of course the Pseudo-Psychic will tell you that in the past all their predictions have come true.

So why do they do it? Firstly to impress you. And secondly, it gives them a sense of power over you, especially if you believe them and keep on asking for more “predictions”.

And thirdly, it can simply be a chat-up line.

“We have an amazing astrological compatibility"

“We used to be together in a previous life”

“When I first saw you I recognised you from a dream”

“Our destiny is as one!”

Phrases like that sound corny when put like that but when said by someone who has already convinced you that they “have the power...”.

Sensitive people are very vulnerable to Fraudulent Clairvoyants

 [ send green star]

 June 05, 2005 7:30 PM

OK... my thoughts on the faux psychi... yes, some are crap trying to rip you off... but there are a lot of budding, real psychics that will give readings  for free... just to build thier own abilities...THEY GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT!!! Just not money... eventually they may charge.

There are honestly some folks that feel guilty for charging for something that is so natural to them.

And there are some psychic vampires out there that WILL try to milk you on an emotional level by trying to get you HOOKED on readings!

My advice... just be cautious, listen to YOUR OWN INSTINCTS... and do the research

 [ send green star]
 June 07, 2005 9:47 AM

The book store I go to called Newage pathways has supposed psychics standing by.One asked me if I wanted a reading,her personality was dull and I felted I saw a dark energy around her.

She didn't use Tarot cards,she used a deck of playing cards like they use for playing poker.She said she was a psychic and the cards were just to distract me.

So,what she said, was I was probally bi-polar and sent me to a doctor,who who turned out to be a anti-depressant drug pusher,I spent months getting on and off Zoloft and then tryed wullburtrin too.

I was foolish to listen to her.So ,yes be very carefull and listen to your instincts.

I learnt a lesson there,stay away from doctors.

Don't know why I even did that I know better,I've never used doctors before always go to the herb shop for my medicines.

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
Thanks ! June 07, 2005 10:54 AM

Thanks for all the helpful information.

I too went to a psychic in my local "Psychic Eye" but I did it just for fun. I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. And frankly the guy that gave me my reading was full of crap and I knew it from the moment we sat down. None of the reading could be pinned down to just me, it could have applied to anyone. At least it only cost me $15 to be that intertained.

I personally dont think that the bookstore/sidewalk psychic is for real. I feel that someone with the gift would like to keep a low profile and build up a client base via word of mouth.

I am sorry to say that I am one that thinks the gift is free so the service should be free. But rather ask for tips/donations , if the reading is good I hope that most people will give something. (Not saying that those that charge are not good.)

I myself am verying interested in learning to untap and my full potential. I have become blocked by years of conditioning by society. (Which is why i am here. )

Looking forward to more great posts!

Burning Phoenix

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 June 07, 2005 11:20 AM

Sage, I am sorry that you experienced such a fraud!

You said in your post though that you flet that there was something dark about here... I hope that as hard as it was that at least a lesson came out of it... that you learn to tune into your own intuition, and listen when you feel that darkness...

I think that drug pushers are horrible! I believe that for every pill out there MOther Nature has given us SOMETHING to help us... Again, I am so sorry that you had to go through your ordeal.

Your experience and by your sharing it here, may save another from having to experience a similar horror!

Thanks for sharing!

 [ send green star]
 June 07, 2005 11:24 AM

Burning P, you said:

I myself am verying interested in learning to untap and my full potential. I have become blocked by years of conditioning by society. (Which is why i am here. )

The conditioning that society enforces upon the young is such a sad thing... so much is LOST... and often never found again!

Sometimes we can rediscover the natural abilities that we all have, and build upon them. Some times we can just rediscover a small portion of them... but we have to be willing to try... and it sounds like you and others here are willing to do so!

I'll try to add more educational ways to start rediscovering your own abilities as time allows.

Thanks for being here! 

 [ send green star]
 June 07, 2005 1:58 PM

I am so glad you posted this here about frauds as they are out there. I do not beleive that a gift given should be charged for. I do not ask for any information at all from anyone. I am surprised that new members ask if I want their details of birthdays, this and their full name should not be asked for in any reading it is not needed. As for giving names also you can not give names. If I specifically hear the name which is not often I do tell them but state to look outside of your imediate family, as this could be a friend or neighbour. The name  usually is of either somebody still here or someone whom has passed over. I usually ask for signs of if I am correct and these are given to me. I am blessed with spirit helping me by giving me clues, I often hear song played to give clues. If somethings are given they could also be symbolic.

I get goose bumps and tingle right down my spine and shake slightly when spirit are here with me. I also  am given signs when spirit are about. I describe the person infront of me as I see and hear spirit. I do not sense them untill they send a smell to alert me they are about.

There is a very good part of this thread which should in my opinion be posted on care2 about the fakes as yes they give all a bad name. I am genuine as others will tell you. I never ask for information I just talk to you and then spirit come through and I am told by my guides as well information. I usually work on a high level where spirit just pop in, I find this way easier for me as I need no help at all but on lower level my guides do help me as well as the loved one in spirit.

lol Jill

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
Excellent Topic! June 07, 2005 3:42 PM

I agree about intuition and the other points mentioned.  A true psychic, medium, clairvoyant, and also healers, are very humble, they don't make promises, false claims, or exaggerate.  Reading can be draining, having hordes of clients could drain someone easily, especially if we don't know how to handle these energies, including our own.  I will use "readers," to include the types of people listed here, and include empaths, and healers, who are readers in a sense, too.
   Genuine readers also listen to their clients, are respectful and mindful of their needs.  They treat the person with consideration and care.  As an empath, psychic, and healer, I know I'm not better than someone who doesn't have these abilities, or who may have these natural abilities but haven't developed them.  I truly believe we all have basic abilities in psychic and empathic senses, which often include clairvoyance and deja vu.
   An empath is someone who senses emotions, an psychic will get actual thoughts that come in words and or pictures.  The combination of skills make for a powerful reading, and very helpful in being aware of those around us.  Learning to use these inner senses and develop them better is in everyone's best interest, because, if our intuitive talents are more finely tuned, we'd be able to better detect who's genuine and who's not, right?
   Once you know what to be aware of, what distinguishes a real psychic, medium, healer, etc., you will be able to judge their qualifications in how they present and conduct themselves.  Sadly, I haven't gotten references to back up my claims of success, though that doesn't make me a fraud, I kow it looks bad to potential clients.  Few will be receptive to me unless their intuition tells them I'm ok.
   We should have some kind of questionaire to give clients to fill out, rating their satisfaction of our services, with their permission to share with others who request a reference, via a consent form that'd be part of a written agreement of services and options; this protects both client and provider.  I'm working on such a form for my service, as well as a disclaimer that'll fulfill legal compliance.  Each person must know what to expect, what's expected of them, and what they're getting into, as well as opting out if disatisfied, for example, you're unhappy with my service, and want a refund, though we may not have finished the session.  We should know our rights within the law in case something goes wrong.  This subject is very unpleasant, but important to establish up front, to help ease any fears and mishaps.  When handled properly, clients will be more comfortable, and so will the reader.
   My concern is for the wellbeing, comfort, and safety of those I help; if I'm unable to help them, or I can only help to a point, I'll gladly assist in finding someone else who may be better able to fill their needs.  I don't see others as a threat to me, who are genuinely caring, and would love to work with others to provide a complete package of services and products in the natural care profession.  I also work with energy, without touching, & offer counsel, among other abilities, depending on the person's needs, all are part of healing.
   Other signs of possible frauds: Their attitude towards the client, talking down to them, don't listen, may seem distracted, not making eye contact, (even blind people will face in the direction of those they're talking with), some readers won't honor a request, may make assumptions, expectations, demands, and put on airs.  They may feel threatened by questions, are afraid they may get personally involved with them somehow, perhaps by caring too much, reaching out too far, and may have trouble expressing themselves well.  This doesn't always mean the person's a fake, but even if they have the gifts, they may think themselves superior and this will come across very strongly in how you're treated.  Their approach could be subtle, too, so watch the way they speak and carry themselves, how friendly and approachable they are, look into their eyes, and trust your instincts.  Having "people skills," is a must in our profession, I sincerley believe.
   There's so much to be aware of here, but mainly, TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS is the BEST advice we can give, and remember, we're human too, we may have an off day and our readings will be wrong, the reader or client could have blockage that prevents the reading, any number of things could affect the accuracy of what we sense about you, including our own emotions and thoughts getting in the way.  We should be aware of that too, and learn how to seperate our stuff from someone else's.
   For each of us, practitioner and client, we have our individual talents, approaches, needs, expectations.  Many clients are skeptics, or were taken by a phony, and not easy to read, or as willing to trust.  Whether a client or reader, don't take on more than you can handle, know your limitations, boundaries, and strengths, enjoy your work, and remember why you have these gifts.
   Perhaps one day there'll be a standard set of measurements/tests that will reveal the quality of our inner abilities, but even for those who's skills have been tested, proven, and recognized, whether it's doctors, teachers, stock brokers, babysitters, bankers, social workers, singers, writers, in any profession, certified, licensed, or not, there will always be someone who's just out to make a quick buck and screw anyone they can, regardless of how talented they may or may not be.
   I sincerely hope whoever you reach out to, to help you in whatever you need, that person truly cares about you, does their best to help you, is fair, honest, respectful, compassionate, sincere, and genuine.

Sincerely, Ariel
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Hippy Strongly agrees June 07, 2005 5:39 PM

I can hear the arguement- it is my job and i need a wage(!)

hmmm hippy - thinks back, to monks doing prayers for cash eek wasnt that immoral

Hippy thinks people can do other types of work and still be a healer or helper aid ect ect.  maybe there is a conflict involved with running a healing buisness and actual healing... co-orporate stress would get in the way of truth

big love n peace x

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Wolf June 07, 2005 7:27 PM

Thanks for taking my question so seriously, also thanks for all that wonderful new knowledge.

I find it amazing how I was able to relate to most it all.

Parts of your discription of the Fraudulant Mediums, made me think of "John Edwards" who I was sold on to be honest. Then there is the "Von" guy, I can't think of his full name. It almost sounds German, but he's American. Both have had TV shows.

I never call those 800 numbers, or those 976 numbers. I always thought those were bogus.

Like Jill, If I were to build mine to its full potential, I would feel guilty charging.

I am a very private person.

I won't try to read family or friends, for fear if I should see something I don't want to. This happened before.

Remember John Micheal I spoke about on another thread. I seen his death in cards I pulled on him.

For me, when I do tarots, I don't need to Quartant there. I find it just as easy or easier to read them with out them there.

My cards seem to lay out spotty, but I have to look at all of them, and the story seems to unfold and then pull together in the end.

Am I off centered?

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anonymous  June 09, 2005 11:30 AM

Thank you very much for all these great info and example.
If I would knew this years ago, it would save me a lot of money, anger, stress and common sense etc.

L&L; Bo

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 June 09, 2005 11:46 AM

Kicka... your comments and questions for spotting a fraud is way to common... and truly very IMPORTANT! I could do not other then address it!

IF it helps point out those that are fradulant, fake, thiefs... the ones that give those of us that are real a bad name... I will do all I can to teach, guide, show, finger, point out ways to spot the fakes.

For the others here... I am so gald that this thread is helping so many! And for the other's here that are the real deal... I am so very pleased that you guys and gals have shared your own views and thoughts...

It is wonderful to have you all here... and for all of us to be discussing and sharing... and learning and growing together!


 [ send green star]
Hippy remembers a old gypsy saying June 10, 2005 10:36 AM

The old tarrot readers from the caravans and fairsites in briton use to say cross my hand with silver ,, I wonder could this have a different interpretation from an actual payment ? originally.

A biblical thought is that Yshua complained about fortune tellers but who is really the sinner - the querant or the wise is not the wise person cheating fate (lol) But I cannot ignore the risks that any form of fortune help could entrap a person into a false sence of security.there is another risk , self fufilling prophesies

 If I could add, I think we clear our inner selves, so that we are able to help others if we ask payment then we will come to have make payments ourselves -- its just a path choice. the original Gypsy people did not use a monitary system!

love n peace

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Kika June 10, 2005 10:40 AM

Somebody on Care 2 said- that the electromagnetic waves given of tv screens pc monitors are the same as the electricity that controls our ickle minds and the very same stuff lighntening is made from.

People fall inlove online (?) so i believe you on that one.

love n peace

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 June 11, 2005 1:23 PM

I think what happens in some online love connections, is that people get to know people without superficial agents, such as skin color, racial absenses, and even faith based predjedices.

The bad part is folks can paint real beautiful pictures of themselves, and can manipulate easier.

But I do think true love can be found via internet.

If someone with a cautious eye meets someone, they usually can spot bad character by their dialog. There I think is one time your intuitiveness needs to be sharp.

Even though this fellow I met online feels right, I have my eyes wide open too. I did meet mine in person once, but it will be along time before we move on to bigger things. If he's impatient, that will come out shortly.

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anonymous  June 12, 2005 3:54 AM

So true.
I met my partner on internet, we were penpals for 1,5 year before meeting and then we met and the rest is history, together now for 4 years
L&L, Bo
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Too Good To Be True June 12, 2005 7:35 AM

I've had some interesting online experiences, where the man would either think we were soulmates, or I was very close to his ideal image of a mate, and I knew each time it wasn't the real thing; not that they were bad, they just weren't for me.  One man saw my profile and said I was almost too good to be true, but he was very interested in me, though I had a few very different qualities, mainly my faith, and my location was far from his.  I felt he was trying to fit me into his idea image, and set himself up for a big disappointment.  It was scary.  We corresponded for awhile, and one day I said something that upset him, and he sent me such an angry letter, it nearly knocked me off my seat!  I was shocked and deeply hurt.  Defending myself didn't do much good, and, though he was willing to start over, the sting of his anger was too much for me to handle, so I ignored him.  I never felt very comfortable with him anyway, but had hoped to make a friend, though not go any farther.
   So, there are frauds out there and there are just those who think they found something they believe is what they want and need.  In my case, it was just a matter of compatibility.  I hope those men found someone more to their liking.

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Ariel June 12, 2005 5:00 PM

Good Points Ariel.

I do think we can catch someones quality (not all the time) over the net.  Afterall, the net is full of electrical currents. Maybe this is were your intuitions played a big role.

I also think we might want something so bad, we may sacrifice our natural intuitions.

I think in my case right now, I am trying very hard to channel into mine, and STOP ignoring them.

I have had a few like yours, but 98% remained as online entities.

I had one come find me (that was creepy). He came all the way to Chicago from Oklahoma.

I get a phone call out of the blue, and it was Him telling me to look out my front window, and sure enough, he was in a very exensive car with tinted windows, parked in the lot of the fueling station across from my apartment facing my building.

I went out there to see him in person so I knew what he looked like. I even took down his plate number. He was very dark skinned, and all you saw was the whites of his eyes, and then his teeth when he smiled. 

He asked me if I'd go to a motel with him, I said "Helll NO!". Then told him to leave because I never invited him.

I used to chat with him on the phone, in Yahoo IM's as well as IM's on a Website I used to frequent called "". It was a virtual reality chatroom site with movable avatars, and when you responded your dialog went into these cartoony like bubbles, it was real cool. Highly addictive I might add. I even chatted with him in the room itself.

But we corrosponded for a couple years before this encounter, but like you Ariel, I never felt comfortable with him, even online.

He went ballistic when I found out from another chatter he met some gal at the airport,  who flew in to meet him from Canada, and took her on a 5 state tour. He assumed I was jelous, when in fact I was more concerned about the girls safety and judgement. We got into this stupid word war. He attempted to be hurtful, but I soon put him on ignor and blocked him from all possible means of communication. Of course I had to watch my back for months cause he knew where I lived.

I think he thought, just because we were both American Indian, I would surcum to his novelty, simply cause single Native American males are scarce here. He didn't count on my reasonability.

I think my intuition went into overdrive with him, and that time I DID listen to it, and am very glad.

I'm handling this new one a bit different. He don't know where I live, and wont for a long time. All meetings will be done on my turf and in public. No hand holding, no real hugs, and definately no intimancy. Just talk, and getting to know eachother verbally. I'm in no rush.

The soulmate thing is a come on I think for net pick ups. That would I think turn on the lightbulb the minute they said that. Most true soulmates know they are soulmates, and wont express that on the first, second, or even 3rd encounter. I know I wouldn't, would you?

What do you think?


I like happy endings. I am glad you found a good man. Bless you both.

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
Good Subject June 12, 2005 5:23 PM

though we've gotten off topic, which I contributed to, also, but am feeling guilty for now.  Yes it's about frauds but I think it was meant strictly for discussing psychics, mediums, and related things.  I will say that I think soulmates would recognize eachother and prob'ly not mention it for a while.  Once I met a man from a past life online in another chat service.  We knew right away but didn't mention it right off, so I think the soulmate situation would be the same.

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 June 12, 2005 5:29 PM

Ariel, please feel free to discuss what spirit moves you to discuss here It is... all about intuition!

 [ send green star]

 June 12, 2005 5:33 PM

Don't feel guilty, we are actually (indirectly) on the subject, since Intuition deals with the pyshics ability to sense when something is or isn't right.

This added topic to the original topic is actually a demonstration of the energies we possess.

Now as for me, getting it under control is my task at hand, and if it is demonstrated by cautiousness with online relationships, I think it relates well.

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 June 12, 2005 11:15 PM

It is good when you find your soul mate from your pastlife in this 21 Century life, I was married in one of my pastlives and I have again found my husband but remember they can come back differently and not the same. I have made telepathic communications with my soulmate and know who he has changed to. It is sad that you can not just enter their life but rules are rules and they must come to you. Yes you are drawn back to your soul mate, by strong love for them but they must come to you.

lol Jill

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Thank You, & An Interesting Experience June 13, 2005 5:36 AM

Thanks for the feedback, I had to be sure it was ok to keep this aspect of the discussion going, becauses it's so important to me personally and in my work.
   I had a young friend who was kinda like a daughter to me, though it was online, and she'd ask me if she should stay with some guy, what I sensed about him, and stuff like that.  I tried to encourage her to develop her intuition, but she liked depending on me.  After awhile I got very annoyed but gently kept trying to motivate her.  What I said was, it wasn't fair, especially to her, because, what if I was wrong?  What if I wasn't around and she had to make an important decision?  She'd blame me, but most importantly, she wouldn't learn how to use and trust her inner voice.  If she followed a feeling and it was wrong, I also said, at least she'd learn a valuable lesson, which would teach her to use her intuition better.  She admitted I was right, but still asked me questions which made me uncomfortable.  I think she wanted my approval more than anything.

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 June 13, 2005 7:37 AM

Sounded as if she didn't trust herself. She may have been trying to get you to validate what she wanted verses what she really knew.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
anonymous  June 13, 2005 9:25 AM

, Kicka!
I know how rare this is and I guess it was blessing from Heaven, cuz I made many manifestation before about my partner, you know just "playing" to see if this would really work, actually I tried with manifestation, intention for years when I was single and then all of sudden when I forgat all about it, things started to happen and so it was. He has almost all characteristic I put down in my manifestation, that it was a shock. And even now I get a messages, he is the right man for me in this period and that it was machmaking in Heaven, although he is not my twin flame who is not incarnated with me this time, but he is best choice for now.
So, I guess what is relation to this topic is, watch what you intend for, use manifestation and intention skill in right positive form and then relax and see...We are very powerful creators.
He came to me after years of "bad luck" in this love field and also fraud from net and when I started to use my skills, my intuition, manifestation, prayers, when I went into me and see why things happen instead of blaming the Heaven, then things changed and He came into my life.
Who knows what future will bring, but I will always be so so very much grateful that He came and changed Me and my life for the better and showed me indirectly how powerful we really are.
Love, Bo

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Trusting Intuition June 13, 2005 11:00 AM

With practice we can learn to trust our intuition.  My friend was very young and wasn't ready or willing to take the risk that her feelings may be accurate, or may not be.  Fear of the unknown, fear of making mistakes, is very powerful, I know.  We don't have many people who can help guide us in how to recognize, listen to, and follow our instincts.  I'm still learning, too.

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
I was talked into July 15, 2005 7:25 AM

seeing a "psychic" in my area, and though I was distraught and not really interested I called this woman and set up an appointment.  This was 5 years ago, and while I didn't disbelieve, I didn't really belive either, I guess I just had no reason to even think about it before.  So I went, and the first thing this woman says to me is "your son is ok, and is happy,"  well, it didnt impress me at all.  I am thinking this woman knew my name and my son's death was in all the local newspapers and on the tv for many days.  I was grateful that she was trying to ease my fears and worries about his being gone, but I really wasn't impressed.  But then she proceded to tell me things that there is no way she could have know, never.   Several of them that were private just between him and me.  And then she also gave me several messages for some of his friends who she named by name.  The  whole experience was life saving to say the least.  I have been to this woman a couple of times since then, and she holds a meditation group once a week and is very active in the community.  So, while I didn't really think she was a fraud, I did at the beginning think she was just telling me what she thought I wanted/needed to hear.  boy was I wrong.  [ send green star]  [ accepted]
Frauds and suchlike November 24, 2005 11:36 PM

Yikes.  I'm feeling tagged even though I have had many genuine psychic experiences.  The gift may be free, but the cards/paint/reading tool, time invested, and energy invested, are not.  And it's a very rare reading that results in an equal exchange of energies. 

By agreeing to read for someone, you lay yourself open for them to draw heavily on you, risk seeing something rather traumatic, and take on a lot of responsibility emotionally that isn't there in an ordinary conversation. 

I personally would not spend $4 a minute for a reading, and I sort of winced to hear that was what people were paying, when I was on the psychic lines.  But then again, I was only getting forty cents of that, and I was there at midnight to talk, listen, and understand, when no one else was. 

Personally I have seen both extremely gifted psychics, and rather suspicious ones, at fairs, book shops, and so forth.  I trust the book shop psychics more than the psychic line ones, because they are only charging a very small amount. 

In the old days, a querent might pay with a service or by bringing crops, or a product of their work.  A farmer might bring a chicken, a cobbler might make shoes, etc....but these days, reading for a shoe salesman doesn't mean you get shoes, so I say money stands in for the original exchange. 

Don't pay more than you're comfortable paying for a reading, ever.  Psychics are like singers and artists.  Those gifts are "free," too, but most people know it's rude to demand that a band play for free, or insist a painter or photographer work for free.  I don't see psychic work as much different.  YMMV. 

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
Some things I've noticed about psychics November 26, 2005 8:34 PM

Karen M, thank you for sharing a good experience with a genuine psychic.  just because you have been written about, doesn't mean the psychic has seen that paper or even reads the paper. 

I have heard many stories of birth dates being used by frauds, but every psychic line I ever worked for, used them only to insure that the person was over 18. And I used them to do numerology and pick a Tarot significator for callers.  I've never really encountered any reader using a computer, although there are tons of computer-generated astrology and Tarot readings out there.

The main thing, IMO, is to use your intuition.  If you don't trust someone, then don't get a reading from them. 

IMO, psychic ability is a gift, but so are strong muscles, and you wouldn't expect a man to dig your garden or move your stuff for free, just because he has them and you don't. 

Everyone is psychic to some degree.  Nobody needs a reading. Nobody is going to just keel over and die if you refuse to read for them. 

All the same, I believe in doing some readings pro bono if someone feels like they need one.  And I won't read at all, if I'm sick, have a headache, or am otherwise unable to concentrate.  If I am wrong three times in a reading, I usually stop the reading and don't charge.

Does anyone else here do readings professionally sometimes? 

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
Michelle, November 27, 2005 5:11 PM

I've done readings in the past, not so much lately because of my own stresses and turbulance.
While others were charging $40 -100 , I was charging $10-$20  which included me driving to their house. People are more secure in their own environment and it's less draining. If someone wasn't happy /satisfied with their reading, I would not accept any money. If someone had no money and they really needed a reading, it was free. I've raised my price a little because of gas prices and such, and people do expect to pay something for your time and service and tapes if need be.
When I get my own home where I can set myself up with just one area to do readings, it would save me a lot of travelling.
I don't do any advertizing so anyone that comes to me is by word of mouth. I always felt that those that are supposed to come to me will, that those that can pay and want to pay, will, that those that can't will let me know or I'll know and so far, I give what is given me and help where I can. I've only refused to do one reading where I got really bad vibes, and one where I folded and left when she started getting a dark energy around her because I wasn't telling her what she wanted to hear. That was scarry, sort of...I've never gone back to her since.
 Personally, I've tried the psychic fairs, the phone psychics, the online psychics...the phone psychics I don't think I'll use again. After telling her three times that my name was Doris, not Darlene, I finally gave up. I know the name could be something from a past life or something, but the info was way off too.
Anyway, that's my two cents worth. I'm glad I've found some people that can help me learn and help me grow.  Thank you so much everyone.
Love n light,
 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
Thanks, November 27, 2005 9:09 PM

Doris, so much, for answering, and I agree so much with you! 

Kicka, what you said about the cards all coming together at the end of a reading, isn't off-base. It's exactly what is supposed to happen. I don't need the querent there, either--I can do distance readings. 

C.J, your "spotting a fraud" is spot-on, but I guess the birth date thing threw me for a loop for a second. 

I have met a lot of psychics at fairs and bookstores, and some of them scare me, because of their energy, but most of them have beautiful energy and beautiful minds.

CJ, thanks for this wonderful group and letting me be here. 

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
 December 30, 2006 11:02 AM

I hired one of the very few LEGITIMATE psychics in all history.

The one and only PETER HURKOS. He said,more or less,

"If you go to a psychic,don't tell them anything in advance.

Let THEM tell you the information." HURKOS was actually

a member of the BBB (Better Business Bureau). You can see

his website,

I recently heard the story of an actress (who'd had many failed

romances) hiring a so-called "intuitional" psychic for personal

advice. The actress was told "she'd find love on the set". And

then proceeded to date some foreign guy somewhat different

from herself! Bad move, I'd say...because, any IDIOT could have

made such an OBVIOUS non-prediction! (If the actress had that

many failures before,the solution to her problem would be NON-

obvious....and there aren't that many Peter Hurkoses around

today! This was most likely an attempt to fleect the actress out

of money.)

So DO be careful out there. Try to get REFERENCES to anyone

claiming to be "psychic".

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
"Intuitive" Psychic Not Trustworthy vs. Others Which Are January 05, 2007 12:11 PM

BTW: Previous post about "an actress" refers to Jennifer Love

Hewitt. It's public knowledge,that she's led a very unsettled

personal-romantic life (much like her idol,the late Audrey Hepburn.)

Part of the private for-hire predictions that HURKOS made for me,

btw,could apply to Ms. Hewitt...because of a whole set of very

unlikely coincidences,and the existence of a person/set of people

who could do for her what Robert Wolders (Audrey Hepburn's

last companion) did for Ms. Hepburn. But that options's never

been used,because of lack of opportunity/showbusiness politics

in the entertainment business. But nobody has ever disproved

those predictions yet....If you want details on that,please email

me privately.My conclusions drawn from HURKOS' predictions

are controversial,compelling,but too complex for some to


On the other hand....This actress had connections with yet

another person billed as "psychic". The storyteller James van

Praagh. Now,to be fair: Mr. van Praagh,for what he does,is OK

by me: If people want to believe that he has a message from

somebody who's "crossed over",fine. But,caveat emptor on

that one,though: Because,basically,nobody's ever come back

from the dead. So,no easy way to confirm what such a "medium"

has said.(Hey,he could even be reading a person's mind!) However,

Mr. van Praagh has an excellent track record at feeling what

audiences like. This indicates some kind of real ESP

ability....Otherwise,most of his past shows would have failed,

and he still wouldn't be doing them! (An excellent book called

Executive ESP by the late Douglas Dean,mentioned that most

successful business people have "hunches" a lot of the time.)

So now,van Praagh's Ghost Whisperer is #1 on the CBS Network

in America! One wonders,though: Why did he come to hire

Jennifer Love Hewitt--who hadn't had a hit TV show in about

10 years (since "Party of Five")? And it seems that the actress'

greatest success had been with Dutch-themed projects (the

other was the highly-rated "Audrey Hepburn Story.)"

However,with that success,as I've shouldn't blindly

trust all people labelled as "psychic" just because one of them

got success going! No,each person claiming to be a "psychic"

must be vetted individuallyOne can never be too careful

when trusting somebody with a life-changing decision...or,

for that matter, with one's hard-earned money! See if the

so-called psychic can deliver the goods!

Which also begs the question: Do all Dutch people have some kind of

above-average ESP ability? I remember HURKOS mentioning this in a

book on him, he called it "Mit der Helm geboren" (when a child is

born with some kind of a special extra skin covering their head.)

Some people theorize that the entire human race has latent ESP

ability; however, that most of us disuse it.

 One other question also remains: Can several (real) psychics'

work "cross-connect" with each other?

I hope this information is enlightening. Life is a mystery which

sometimes raises more questions than it answers;and,that's why the

human race has,throughout time,turned to mystics. But the

right answer is what we really seek.

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]

THIS IS A GREAT GROUP March 02, 2007 3:37 PM

 Hello All,

I am 43 and have had several long-term relationships for which I have learned a great deal regarding abuse and love.

I call my self sensitive. I have an uncanny intuitive sense for negative energy and am able to pick up on the positive feelings of others too. I can brighten most peoples day with just a smile and a kind word. I have a glow about me. I feel empathy and don't involve myself in others drama. I do have an attraction to animals. They seem to relate to me. I am their comfort zone and they are mine. It has Always been this way since my early childhood. I guess maybe it is the unconditional love.

I have always catered to science fiction or horror movies because the real life thing really used to scare me and make me cry. I have since been able to accept real life drama once I was able to learn the power of empathy.

My thought is, the more you know, the less afraid you will be. It's what you don't know that is frightening. My family does not want anything to do with the weirdies—they call them. I think that it's really too bad.

Movies like The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits, The Terminator, The Matrix, The Others, Heroes, The Jetsons, Etc... have all inspired my intuition. My mind is not closed as some peoples are. I think that when your mind is open to the many situations that arise, you are better able to make a good judgment. ah ah choo,


 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
Jennifer Love Hewitt's Using Fake "Psychics" June 29, 2007 11:04 AM

Recently,this actress hired a "palm reader" to see IF she should

stay together with her date du jour. But,this situation had

already been set in motion by a RANDOM meeting..."suggested"

by an "intuitionalist" psychic!

The actress musn't have been sure of the FIRST psychic,so why

use a SECOND one? Sounds like TRICKERY to get her money!!

NEVER hire a psychic who gives OBVIOUS facts back that

he/she easily could have known...or,suggests a RANDOM 

action that is NOT above chance. Rich and famous people


 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
Jennifer Love Hewitt November 10, 2008 12:17 PM

James van Praagh,this actress' mentor,was recently on the "Dr. Phil" Show...and the topic was,"Fake Psychics". Dr. Phil correctly said that James van Praagh was "focussed" (getting real results) versus somebody else's experiences with a sham artist. As I recounted previously,the actress most certainly has been scammed by a couple of no-name seers...Ironically,she WASN'T EVEN IN THE STUDIO when this topic was raied on "Dr. Phil"! (JLH appeared that time via a video clip).

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
PETER HURKOS:: Not Easily Duplicated January 22, 2009 12:39 PM

I'm sure that many mystics knew this legendary psychic. bUT,nobody can learn HURKOS' "gift" (as he'd called it.) The best one could do would be a weak carbon-copy of his work! Pieter cornelius von der Hurk,was an almost one-of-a-kind psychic because of HEREDITY,ENVIRONMENT, and ACCIDENTAL CIRCUMSTANCES which made his situation remarkable. The closest I can think of replicating his efforts,would come from his son (Hurkos,Jr.) living in Holland...or,his surviving daughter in San Diego,if I'm correct.

 [ send green star]  [ accepted]
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