While it's true that we are all eternal, the sun is not. According to the Vedas it will be finished in 427,000 years at the end of this present age of Kali.
most ppl think different about god or don't share the same beliefs how god is ,,so when they read a philosophy about god ppl see defren pector
for exampol i bilive god is evrething,(som kind of domanen nomorador) good and bad that maks god harmonical
Srila Prabhupada said that if anyone says they are G-O-D, God, they are really D-O-G, dog.
"But the philosophy of the rascals is that everyone is God, and today this idea has become popular"
Sometimes Dear Sarvo you blow my little mind away ! Im off to use that in an arguement now - You think your God you do
Brahma creates because Krishna has better things to do. Krishna is the Supreme Being and ultimate enjoyer. Krishna is atmarama, completely independent.
Lord Krishna is god and jessus is saint , god creats the universal and destroy at his will. so krishna is god.
Jesus will tell you that Krishna is his father. The Vedas will tell you that Jesus is shakti avesha avatar. He is prophesied in the Vedas. Nothing is left to chance. God's plan for us is perfect. Like Albert Einstein said, "God doesn't play dice with the universe."
Thanks for bringing back this thread with this wonderful quote.
Srila Prabhupada: Humility means intelligence. The humble and meek own the kingdom of God. This is stated in the Bible, is it not? But the philosophy of the rascals is that everyone is God, and today this idea has become popular. Therefore no one is humble and meek. If everyone thinks that he is God, why should he be humble and meek? Therefore I teach my disciples how to become humble and meek. They always offer their respectful obeisances in the temple and to the spiritual master, and in this way they make advancement. The qualities of humbleness and meekness lead very quickly to spiritual realization. In the Vedic scriptures it is said, "To those who have firm faith in God and the spiritual master, who is His representative, the meaning of the Vedic scriptures is revealed."
Father Emmanuel: But shouldn't this humility be offered to everyone else, also?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, but there are two kinds of respect: special and ordinary. Sri Krsna Caitanya taught that we shouldn't expect honor for ourselves, but should always respect everyone else, even if he is disrespectful to us. But special respect should be given to God and His pure devotee.
Father Emmanuel: Yes, I agree.
Srila Prabhupada: I think the Christian priests should cooperate with the Krsna consciousness movement. They should chant the name Christ or Christos and should stop condoning the slaughter of animals. This program follows the teachings of the Bible; it is not my philosophy. Please act accordingly and you will see how the world situation will change.
Father Emmanuel: I thank you very much.
Srila Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
Jesus Christ Was a Guru
The spiritual leader of the Hare Krsna movement here recognizes Lord Jesus Christ as "the son of God, the representative of God... our guru... our spiritual master," yet he has some sharp words for those who currently claim to be Christ's followers...
The Srimad-Bhagavatam states that any bona fide preacher of God consciousness must have the qualities of titiksa (tolerance) and karuna (compassion). In the character of Lord Jesus Christ we find both these qualities. He was so tolerant that even while he was being crucified, he didn't condemn anyone. And he was so compassionate that he prayed to God to forgive the very persons who were trying to kill him. (Of course, they could not actually kill him. But they were thinking that he could be killed, so they were committing a great offense.) As Christ was being crucified he prayed, "Father, forgive them. They know not what they are doing."
A preacher of God consciousness is a friend to all living beings.
Lord Jesus Christ exemplified this by teaching, "Thou shalt not kill." But the Christians like to misinterpret this instruction. They think the animals have no soul, and therefore they think they can freely kill billions of innocent animals in the slaughterhouses. So although there are many persons who profess to be Christians, it would be very difficult to find one who strictly follows the instructions of Lord Jesus Christ.
A Vaisnava [Follower of Vishnu or Krishna] is unhappy to see the suffering of others. Therefore, Lord Jesus Christ agreed to be crucified--to free others from their suffering. But his followers are so unfaithful that they have decided, "Let Christ suffer for us, and we'll go on committing sin." They love Christ so much that they think, "My dear Christ, we are very weak. We cannot give up our sinful activities. So you please suffer for us." Jesus Christ taught, "Thou shalt not kill." But his followers have now decided, "Let us kill anyway," and they open big, modern, scientific slaughterhouses. "If there is any sin, Christ will suffer for us." This is a most abominable conclusion.
Christ can take the sufferings for the previous sins of his devotees. But first they have to be sane: "Why should I put Jesus Christ into suffering for my sins? Let me stop my sinful activities."
Suppose a man--the favorite son of his father--commits a murder.
And suppose he thinks, "If there is any punishmentcoming, my father can suffer for me." Will the law allow it? When the murderer is arrested and says, "No, no. You can release me and arrest my father; I am his pet son," will the police officials comply with that fool's request? He committed the murder, but he thinks his father should suffer the punishment! Is that a sane proposal? "No. You have committed the murder; you must be hanged." Similarly, when you commit sinful activities, you must suffer--not Jesus Christ. This is God's law.
Jesus Christ was such a great personality--the son of God, the representative of God. He had no fault. Still, he was crucified. He wanted to deliver God consciousness, but in return they crucified him-- they were so thankless. They could not appreciate his preaching. But we appreciate him and give him all honor as the representative of God.
Of course, the message that Christ preached was just according to his particular time, place, and country, and just suited for a particular group of people. But certainly he is the representative of God. Therefore we adore Lord Jesus Christ and offer our obeisances to him. Once, in Melbourne, a group of Christian ministers came to visit me. They asked, "What is your idea of Jesus Christ?" I told them, "He is our guru. He is preaching God consciousness, so he is our spiritual master." The ministers very much appreciated that.
Actually, anyone who is preaching God's glories must be accepted as a guru. Jesus Christ is one such great personality. We should not think of him as an ordinary human being. The scriptures say that anyone who considers the spiritual master to be an ordinary man has a hellish mentality. If Jesus Christ were an ordinary man, then he could not have delivered God consciousness.
Jesus will tell you that Krishna is his father. The Vedas will tell you that Jesus is shakti avesha avatar. He is prophesied in the Vedas. Nothing is left to chance. God's plan for us is perfect. Like Albert Einstein said, "God doesn't play dice with the universe."
Jesus Christ Our Creator
"For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, (Colossians 1:16
This post was modified from its original form on 02 Jun, 16:15
difficult to find one who strictly follows the instructions of Lord Jesus Christ. Ypu can say this about all followers of anyone krishna included
ALL THINGS EXIST.......BUT LET US NOT EVER CONFUSE CHANNEL WITH THE SOURCE.....
Message: THE FACE OF ANOTHER SEASON
LEAVES TURN GOLDEN
SKIES TURN GREY
THE AIR COOLER
THE FACE OF WINTER
ONCE AGAIN
TURNS THIS WAY
A LIGHT LIQUID SPRINKLE
FALLS UPON MY FACE
MY FRIEND THE CAT CLEANS HIS FACE
PHEASANTS FLY HIGH OVER THEIR NESTS
AS A MOTHER DEER
AND HER FAWN
DISTURB THIER REST
FALL IS HERE.......
I dont want to be rude, but I must just say that I dont like Mother Earth, a living, loving provider being reffered to as a 'mere dust ball'
With Respect.
I must admit I'm a bit skeptic on ALL religions, but I would hate to believe that Jesus did not exist! How alone and lonely we would all be on this mere dustball of ours?!!
Rob
Good job at washing his feet...maybe? 
Now those of you that know me know I love Jesus. I just see that this animated Jesus gif is a really good example showing why it's particularly nice to have the energizing juxtaposition of the Sacred and the Profane in the transcendental divine forms of Radha-Krishna. Jesus and Mary Magdaline? Sitting on a park bench with purple sprinkles flashing all around? Great Job? What in the world is this?
"MY WORD"
Michael O... I have read posts here and there from YOU, but this last ONE sealed the deal for ME! YOU DO KNOW THE TRUE CHRIST JESUS and it is a pleasure to chat with YOU on this thread! I too had tears when reading those LOVELY WORDS that YOU had typed out for this thread!
I feel it deep within MY HEART and so I say with integrity ~ I LOVE YOU MICHAEL O and I LOVE YOU SUBHADRA ~ WHAT AN AMAZING BREAKTHROUGH for ME on A BELIEF that I had come to hold in MY HEART, but NO WORDS to BACK IT UP! I AM IN AWE!
HARE KRISHNA...
and may THE TRUE LIGHT of GOD's LOVE shine through for US ALL!
Michael, I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes from all the love of God I feel coming from you. The fact that you can express it so eloquently and say Hare Krishna so easily shows me that you have truly found God in your heart.
Love of God, it just doesn't get any better than that!
P.S. AnneMarie, I love you more than words can say.
HARE KRISHNA
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness and faith.
If we have the Spirit of love in us we love everyone. I remember after Jesus saved me I could love people I didn't even like before and go up and hug them.
We have joy and peace in our lives it's because what Jesus did for us when he saved our soul. I remember I was so happy I wish I could have went on to be with Jesus. That would have been to easy.
Longsuffering, that is what Jesus did for us when he saved our soul. I remember my friends making fun of me . People I witnessed to laughing in my face. But I didn't even get mad. My tears flowed down my face. I only wonted them to have what Jesus had given me. I had never had so much love in all my life.
Gentleness being meek and lowly in heart to everyone. Just wanting them to see Jesus in us so they might wont Jesus in their life also.
Goodness being good to everyone even if we get used. I have known that feeling all my life
Faith our faith in Jesus is what its all about. With out faith we can never have the fruit of the Spirit in our lives. We step out in faith to accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and Jesus saves our soul and we get back up a new creature in Jesus. The fruit of the Spirit has been applied .
We have to keep the fruit of the Spirit in our heart mind and soul to be pleasing to God we must win soul's for the Kingdom of Heaven for Jesus. Jesus told me to win souls in love. We must have the fruit of the Spirit if we are to win souls for the Lord. amen. I know people have different beliefs. I hope to never offend no one. God is love I love everyone God bless Michael
******HARE KRISHNA******
Krsna~ABSOLUTE TRUTH
I suppose I feel more fortunate than I DO "SPECIAL"...
ALL THE SAME...THANK YOU for BEING able to HEAR MY WORDS!
AND THANK YOU for YOUR WONDERFUL RESPONSE ! ! !
LOVE
It's not hard for you to understand AnneMarie, you get it. You are more advanced than you realize. You have found the key, living in your heart. God is in your heart, you are now listening to Him and letting Him direct your steps. Do you realize how special you are?
Hare Krishna!
that an entire group can BE considered as the closest followers... As we all know, many people claim to BE Christian and still judge others and hold anger in their hearts . . . Forgiveness is not always acceptable in this day and age for certain things and so Jesus's teachings have become distorted with gray areas! There are no grey areas in what I have read! It took ME three times reading it to start SEEING that! It seems to BE an individual vision of what he was REALLY TEACHING!
I AM constantly learning from MY preconceived thoughts about his teachings; so I AM always humble in learning THE REAL TRUTH as I uncover it! Getting out of MY head and into MY HEART was the hardest thing for ME because I had to learn forgiveness of others who had caused great pain to ME... It did become easier in time to allow each individual the right to have souls on their feet unique from mine! I had to LEARN to accept forgiveness for everything and in everyone! Just as Jesus allowed for US to have it; regardless of "sin"...Certainly if GOD can forgive US ~ shouldn't WE try to forgive ourselves and others of various "sins" too....
I had to look really deep to try to understand the mind of a rapist to resolve that ONE for ME! I AM certain from trying to peice the other childhood stories of convicted rapists and those links; that MY rape was not about ME... It was about MY attacker(s) EGO and it's need to survive! The Eastern Religions were great for ME to understand and place MY BODY and MY SPIRIT in two seperate areas! My body healed within a day or two ~ My Spirit took a beating for months and I learned how to say ENOUGH; mostly for my own sanity. Forgiving others is a BEAUTIFUL way to RELEASE spiritual wounds that keep us from BEING ALL THAT GOD INTENDED US TO BE!
It seems the more I LOVE, the more FREE I have become! It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong; imprisonment as A Victim will hold YOU back at various levels and will lead to other behaviors that WE normally would not do or BE like! ! !
From what I understand, "GRACE" ~ as taught by Jesus Christ is essential for reaching HEAVEN... or reaching Krsna; THE BEAUTIFUL GOD of LOVE (the ONE that I have always known, but did not attach a name other than GOD! My GOD is LOVE and is the LIGHT of the WORLD!!! **See how many names are associated with "The Christian GOD of THE BIBLE" . . . **Then SEE how many GOD's are defined as "The Light of The World"** Most religions will recognize Jesus Christ, but branched tremendoulsly regarding a mis-interpretation of "The Messiah"
In my way of thinking....Jesus did not preach a religion; he took the heavy-hearted and taught them about THE POWER of GRACE... Showing them/US/ALL, a BETTER WAY to LIVE! That AMAZING GRACE was what put ME on this road of searching for OUR ONE TRUE GOD! We all came from one and so WE should ALL BE traced back to ONE! ALL PATHS LEAD TO GOD...HOW FAR DO YOU WANT TO JOURNEY ON YOUR ROAD?
That may seem to BE a stretch depending on how ONE was raised; but just as simple as the many different names we use to refer to Mother (mama, ma, mom ect....) ~ a mother is defined in it's simplest terms as the same BEING! Mother - The female nuturer of an offspring!
I hope I have not offended anyone and I AM always learning; so I do not mind MY TRUTH today being challenged, so that MY TRUTH tomorrow will BE that much closer to knowing GOD!
LOVE
Do you believe we must be born again and washed in the blood of Jesus Christ to be saved?
I do my self God is love Michael
i went to catholic school all my life and my family are all church rasied,but one thing i have seen in my journey in faith.weather i was in a church,temple or sacred circle.I felt gods smile and light on me.There's is no wrong when loving the creator.all this fighting is man made and i believe it upsets god to see his childern fighting over him in such a way.The creator is loving and willing to come in whatever form makes his childern comfortable and allowing you to be able to love and trust him.i feel you should not worry what the creator looks like, male or female.the only thing that should be on your mind is how to get closer to our creator.learn by love.
Although Jesus was a Jew, many of the Jewish people didn't believe that he was the Messiah that God talked about. They don't believe that Jesus was the Savior of the world. There are some Messianic Jews (Jews that believe in Jesus as the Messiah) and I would say that their teachings and practices are closest to those of Jesus. I am a Christian, and I try to follow the teachings of Jesus using the Bible as a guide. But Messianic Jewish people not only follow the Bible, but they also follow much of the Jewish law.
Hello everyone,
I am christian, I believe and love Jesus, although i do agree with Subhadra when she says : religion" has done more harm that most people realice, for example, it has a horrible track record, rivers of blood, holy wars, crusades", yes unfortunately this is all true, i believe church has used religion for its own convinience and for political interests...This is sad and shameful for christianity, i follow the christian dogma and religion do not agree with church though...I'd also like to say that i do agree with someone in this thread who said it would be very difficult to find one who strictly follows the instructions of Lord Jesus Christ
Sarvo, you sound like a very intelligent and connoisseur person, its always nice to learn from people like you., I have the same question Andreas asked, you said: Jesus is a Vaishnava, he even knew the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Achintya abeda beda tattva .... Could you please explain this better, i am very interested in this.
Thanks
"You think that good is hating what is bad. What is bad is the hating mind itself."
—Bon Kai (Buddhist monk)
There is plenty to find offense in the behavior of fearful men - regardless of the religion they profess to, or what millenia they hail from. The awesome thing about Jesus the Christ, a relationship with him does not depend on a religion... that much love, can't be chained to any institution of believers.
*
*
Dorothy,
I have to say I agree with you, "religion" has done more harm that most people realize. There is a difference between religion and knowing God. The Judeo-Christian religion for example has a horrible track record, rivers of blood, holy wars, crusades, it's not a pretty sight. But I know that there is a Supreme Being that transcends all religious dogma, and He's there just waiting for us to find Him. Yes Dorothy, you have come to the right place.
Peace and Love
Thanks for inviting me!
Religously, I'm very confused, so I like to say I'm an agnostic, seeing as I'm not sure if God exists, but I would like to change that! I would like to be postive of the existance of a being higher than earth, but I am not sure that is possible.
All religous figures (Buddah, Jesus, ect.) were good, but some of what people do to get people to believe their way is very bad...What am I supposed to believe? I hope I have come to the right group.
en arch hn o logoV kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon kai qeoV hn o logoV
Sarvo an acceptable variation of the most common English translation of this John 1.1 verse is:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Did you include this wonderful verse to emphasise that the name of god is no different than god?
When you chant 'Hare Krishna' at that moment god is with you in his names!
All glory to the holy names
Hare Krishna
The Onondaga next to accept the great law, all but the Tadodaho, wear two eagle feathers in their gustowehs one up and one tilted downward. The Cayuga, the forth to accept the Great Law of Peace, wear one eagle feather tilted slightly downward, while the Seneca wear one single eagle feather straight up in their gustowehs. The feathers worn also allow the Haudenosaunee to easily recognize each other.
The Tuscarora do not wear any eagle feathers in their gustoweh, which may be explained by the fact that they did not originally accept the Great Law of Peace from the Peacemaker, for the Tuscarora joined the Confederacy and accepted the Great Law of Peace around 1714.IN CONCLUSION:FOOTNOTES
This is how the Peacemaker stopped the warring and bloodshed amongst the many nations. The only man that stood in the way of the Great Law of Peace from being accepted and taking root, was the Tadodaho. Once the Tadodaho was sung to, and the snakes were combed from his hair, he was able to hear the Peacemaker's good message. Only then were all the Nations joined in Unity, Strength, and Peace. The Onondaga chiefs were given the duty of being the Keepers of the Fire, and they are the record keepers of the Confederacy. Chief Leon Shenandoah filled the place of the Tadodaho for over a quarter of a century as he upheld the Great Law of Peace. Shenandoah was a great spiritual advisor and a truly good man that will be fondly remembered! Nia:wenkowa
(1) Akwesasne Notes, Spring April-May-June 1997
(2) Shenandoah, Leon. "Forward" to Paul A.W. Wallace, WHITE ROOTS OF PEACE 9-12, Santa Fe, NM: Clear Light Publishing, 1994.
BIBLIOGRAPHY
Buck, Roy. "The Great Law" Traditional Teachings. Ed. Barbara K. Barnes. Ontario, Canada: North American Indian Travelling College, 1984.
"The Women's Nomination Belt." Indian Time 19 July 1996:3.
"Leon Shenandoah, Fire Keeper for the Haudenosaunee Dies at 81 After Serving As Tadodaho for More Than a Quarter of a Century." Indian Time 26 July 1996:1.
Jemison , Peter G.. Mother of Nations-The Peace Queen, A Neglected Tradition, Indian Roots of American Democracy, Northeast Indian Quarterly, 1988: 68-69.
Mitchell, Mike Kanentakeron, "The Birth of the Peacemaker" Traditional Teachings. Ed. Barbara K. Barnes. Ontario, Canada: North American Indian Travelling College, 1984.
The Peacemaker & Ayonwentha Spread the Message
While amongst the Mohawk, the Peacemaker called for Ayonwenta an Onondaga, who later became a Mohawk by adoption, to come and stand by his side. Interestingly, one should be aware that the name Ayonwenta, or Hiawatha, which may be more familiar to the reader, has nothing to do with Longfellow's poetic creation. Ayonwenta had isolated himself from his people, and sought solace in the woods after his daughters had been murdered. Ayonwenta was an excellent orator. He stood by the side of the Peacemaker. Ayonwenta was a loyal friend and helper in promoting the Great Law of Peace.
The Peacemaker then traveled to the Oneida to spread his message. The Peacemaker, as he had done with the Mohawk, sought out the violent leaders who were fighting and killing and told them of his good message from the Creator. These leaders listened to the Peacemaker's good message, and as did the Mohawk, they agreed to replace their negative thinking and actions. The Oneida agreed to accept the Great Law of Peace, if the other Nations would be bound and live by the law also, which required them to live in Peace and Unity. As with the Mohawk, there were nine leaders, who agreed to follow the Great Law of Peace and they became chiefs.
Atodaho Refuses the Message
The Peacemaker then traveled to the Onondaga, and, as he did with the Mohawk and the Oneida, he sought out the leaders who were causing havoc and told them of the good message. Most of the leaders accepted the Great Law of Peace, except one very evil twisted man who dealt in bad medicine. His name was Tadodaho. Tadodaho was very strong and wicked, and he refused to listen to the Great Law of Peace. The Peacemaker tried to reach Tadodaho with the good message, but Tadodaho refused, so the Peacemaker moved on to spread his message to the Cayuga.
Peacemaker continues to the Cayuga & Seneca
Ten of the Cayuga leaders accepted the Peacemakers message and agreed to be bound by the articles of the Great Law of Peace. The Peacemaker then traveled on to the Seneca. The Seneca had a large number of warriors, but after awhile, eight of the leaders agreed to accept the Great Law of Peace. All of the Nations had agreed to accept the Great Law of Peace, all but, the Onondaga leader Tadodaho. All efforts to talk with the Tadodaho, and get him to accept the Great Law had failed.
Jikonsahseh's Song
Jikonsahseh, the Mother of all Nations, also known as the Peace Queen, called the Peacemaker and Ayonwenta into her house, for she had a plan to bring the Tadodaho under the Great Law of Peace. Jikonsahseh, since she had lived a life like Tadodaho, called the Peacemaker and Ayonwatha, for she had a plan that if they would sing to Taodaho the special song she taught them that his mind would become be transformed and he would be able to hear the good message. The Peacemaker and his followers went to find the Tadodaho. After a long time they found the Tadodaho in a swamp. His body was dirty and twisted, and it is said that he had snakes woven into his hair that gave him a frightful look. His face bore the look of the cruelty that was in him.
The Cayugas had learned the song that Jikonsahseh had taught them, and they began to sing the song to Tadodaho. However, the Cayugas made a mistake in singing the song, so it did not work. The Peacemaker then sang the song without mistakes, and he sang the song in a strong clear voice. The Peacemaker's singing worked, for the Tadodaho was able to hear the Peacemaker's good message and his twisted mind and body became straightened. Then, Ayonwenta was able to comb the snakes from the hair of the Tadodaho. Although the Tadodaho was wicked, and often thought to be so evil that he appeared not human, the singing released him from the evilness and he listen to, and accepted the Peacemaker's message of the Great Law of Peace. Jikonsahseh knew that the songs and words would heal his mind, and it worked.
Tadodaho Accepts the Peacemaker's message
When Tadodaho accepted the Great Law of Peace, he become the Fire Keeper of the Grand Council. The responsibility and duty of the Tadodaho, from that day on, is to promote the Good Word, Peace, Power, and Righteousness. After the Tadodaho accepted the Good Message, the Onondaga were than represented by fourteen chiefs, and the Nations became bound together in Unity, Peace, and Strength under the Great Law of Peace.
Interestingly, although I have not been able to find confirmation, It appears that the number of feathers that are worn in the feathered hats, gustowehs, of each Nation of the Haudenosaunee coincides with the order in which they accepted the Great Law of Peace from the Peacemaker. For example, the Mohawk were the first to accept the Great Law of Peace, and they wear three eagle feathers standing straight up in their gustowehs. The Oneida second to accept the Great Law of Peace wear three eagle feathers also; but two of the feathers are worn straight up and one is tilted downward.
The Founding of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy
Before the Europeans came to North America, and the Haudenosaunee (People of the Longhouse), the Seneca, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Mohawk accepted the Great Law of Peace, Kaianeraserakowa, there was much conflict and turmoil amongst the Onkwehonwe, the people. It was a civil war. The old ones always said that when there was much trouble, a messenger would come from the home of our Creator to help the people. Soon, the Peacemaker came to the Onkwehonwe, he was born to a Huron woman near the Bay of Quinte. It is said that during his birth, there was very unusual circumstances, which was a sign to the Onkwehonwe that this baby was special and had special spiritual powers, for his very being was imbued with the Creator's message of Skennen (Peace), Kariwiio (the Good Word), and Kasastensera (strength).
Spreading the Message
When the Peacemaker was very young, he spoke of bringing the people together in Great Peace, Skennenkowa. The Peacemakers' own people did not accept his message of Great Peace, so he traveled to the Kahniakehaka, the People of the Flint, which is what the people prefer to call themselves, but are commonly known as the Mohawk. On his journey to the Mohawk, the Peacemaker arrived at a waterfall where on the eastern side of the river lived a woman. This woman's name was Jikonsahseh. Jikonsahseh promoted the warring of the Onkwehonwe by feeding the warriors and allowing them to rest in her house as they traveled from the east and the west along the warpath. The Peacemaker sat down with Jikonsahseh, and he spoke to her. The Peacemaker said that he knew that she was purposely feeding warriors and that by doing so Jikonsahseh was helping the warring to continue. The Peacemaker reasoned with Jikonsahseh as he explained to her that he was sent to spread the message of Great Peace, and that she must listen to him and stop facilitating the warring because her actions were wrong.
Jikonsahseh & the Role of Women
Once the Peacemaker had Jikonsahseh's ears open to listen, her told her of his message that all people are to love and respect each other. They are to live in Peace and Unity with each other, and all the Natural World that surrounds them. The Peacemaker then began to explain the parts of his good message. He explained that Skennen (Peace) would unite the Nations, and that Skennen would follow the Onkwehonwe wherever they went. He explained that Kasastensera (Strength/Power) would bring all the Nations together under the Great Law of Peace to become one extended family. Righteousness would stop the warring and bloodshed, and would allow peace to flourish. After the Jikonsahseh heard the message, she knew it to be right, and she vowed to stop promoting war and accepted the Great Law of Peace, Kaianaraserakowa.
Jikonsahseh was the first woman to accept the Peacemaker's message of Peace, and she was very influential in promoting peace amongst the Onkwehonwe. Today she is known as the Mother of the Nations. The Peacemaker told her that the women will always have an important role amongst the Haudenosaunee and in maintaining Peace. The Haudenosaunee are a matrilineal society. In other words, clans are passed on from mother to child. The Peacemaker told Jikonsahseh that each Chief, Royaner, which literally translates to nice or good, would be selected and put into his position by the Clan Mother. In other words, the Iotiianehshon, Clan Mothers hold the titles and if a Chief goes astray, then it is the duty of the Clan Mother to remove him from his position and to raise another in his place.
The Peacemaker's Journey Continues
While amongst the Mohawk, the Peacemaker found leaders who were willing to listen to and to accept his teachings of the Great Law of Peace. The warrior leaders were causing much unrest and violence. It was a horrible time for the Onkwehonwe.
The Peacemaker sought out the war leaders, for he wanted them to listen to his good message of Peace, Power, and Righteousness, and he wanted them to accept the message; thereby, becoming of sane mind and abandon the warring and bloodshed. The nine Mohawk men who accepted the message, the Great Law of Peace, were given titles of chiefs. Since the Mohawk were the first to accept the Peacemaker's message, they were made the foundation of the Confederacy. Today the original names of these nine chiefs, who first accepted the Great Law of Peace are preserved, and when a chief is condoled, which is done through a ceremony, the newly raised chief relinquishes his old name and takes the original name.
Everything is possible for him who believes.
(Mark 9:23)
Hari Hari Bol
I know I can't speak at ALL about your devotion, Sarvo! Evolved from both sides and you walk with GRACE and DEVOTION... LOVE
Your statements are valid and certainly apply to many other religions upon earth... I AM hoping to plant a seed here! Lets see what elements about each religion do share a commonality! It would be best to leave the details out and focus on the big WORD!
ALL Y LOVE
Jesus taught Love
and even that with Love and to Believe in Love,
we can even survive physical death.:o)
'Love is the highest 'magic''
Creator IS LOve! :o)
Happy Dance :o)
HELLO TO EVERYONE,
I WAS JUST INVITED INTO THE GROUP BY MY FRIEND STORMY. I AM SO GLAD TO BE HERE. I AM GLAD THAT SHE NOTIFIED ME. I AM A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN AND ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST AS MY LORD AND SAVIOR IN 1988. PRAISE JESUS. SO NICE TO SEE SUCH WONDERFUL COMMENTS AND STATEMENTS.
RICHARD CROWELL
I don't have anything new to add, but wanted to say that I've loved reading everyone else's posts!
~Stacie
1940
Jesus Christ was a man who traveled through the land,
A hard working man and brave.
He said to the rich "Give your goods to the poor."
But they laid Jesus Christ in His grave.
Jesus was a man, a carpenter by hand,
His followers true and brave,
One dirty little coward called Judas Iscariot
Has laid Jesus Christ in His grave.
He went to the preacher, He went to the sheriff,
He told them all the same,
"Sell all of your jewelry and give it to the poor,"
But they laid Jesus Christ in his grave.
When Jesus come to town, all the working folks around
Believed what He did say,
The bankers and the preachers they nailed Him on a cross.
Then they laid Jesus Christ in His grave.
The poor workin' people, they followed Him around,
They sung and they shouted gay,
The cops and the soldiers, they nailed Him in the air,
And they laid Jesus Christ in His grave.
Well, the people held their breath when they heard about His death,
And everybody wondered why,
It was the landlord and the soldiers that he hired,
To nail Jesus Christ in the sky.
This song was written in New York City,
Of rich man, preacher and slave,
But if Jesus was to preach like He preached in Galilee,
They would lay Jesus Christ in His grave.
The Christ.
I dreamed of him often as a child. I held his hand, he had a great sense of humor, and good balance, from what I can recall. His presence made me feel loved, even when my family did not. He reassured me that I belonged in this world, and that being human was not going to be easy, and that I could count on him, to show me courage. He made me feel special, even when I was so insecure, I wouldn't look in a mirror. He was soft, He was strong, and I will love Him always.
OM Shanti
Thanks LuAnn. Very conclusive to say the least.
Who was Jesus?
My
theory is that Jesus was a white Cajun:
1. He liked to serve fish to his friends.
2. He could make his own wine.
3. And he wasn't afraid of water.
A
black friend of mine had three good arguments that Jesus was black:
1. He called everyone "brother".
2. He liked gospel.
3. He couldn't get a fair trial.
A
Jewish friend had three equally good arguments that Jesus was Jewish:
1. He went into his father's business.
2. He lived at home until he was 33.
3. He was sure his mother was a virgin, and his mother was sure he was God.
An
Italian friend gave his three equally good arguments that Jesus was Italian:
1. He talked with his hands.
2. He had wine with every meal.
3. He used olive oil.
My
California friends also had three equally good arguments that Jesus was a Californian:
1. He never cut his hair.
2. He walked around barefoot all the time.
3. He started a new religion.
A
good Irish friend then gave his three arguments that Jesus was Irish:
1. He never got married.
2. He was always telling stories.
3. He loved green pastures.
But
a friend had the most compelling evidence of all that Jesus was really a woman:
1. He fed a crowd at a moment's notice when there was no food.
2. He kept trying to get a message across to a bunch of men who just didn't
get it.
3. And even when he was dead, he had to get up because there was more work
to do.
I totally agree, Sarvo
and what we focus on, gathers strength....Let's focus on LOVE!
I'm off to Seattle for the holidays, back next Wednesday night...Blessings to all from my heart to yours, and may you experience PEACE in your own little space on Earth this holy holiday season.
Jesus truly is the reason for this and every season...
Love,
Janey
God always forgives but that doesn't mean I should count on that and engage in sinful activity. Tom points out that in our heart of hearts we all know the way. That's because God is in your heart. If I'm living up in my head, figuring, calculating and analysing; then I'm already in hell. If I can live from my heart and let God direct my steps, then I don't have to worry, I can be happy. It's just that simple.
Guilty as charged, your Honor.
Having a righteousness conscious is not a license to continue on with behaviors that are out of sync with Godlikeness. In fact, righteousness consciousness bears with it, it's own higher sense of accountability and sensitivity.
I'm also prone to making mistakes. I make them all the time. I try not to use that as an excuse for making more, though. Sort of like when I encourage someone to stop smoking and they say, "Why bother, the air is so polluted, we're all going to get cancer anyway."
The Hebrew word translated "Sin" means "miss the mark".
I have yet to meet a human being who can live completely free from 'missing it' now and again.
According to sacred scripture, Jesus died once and for all time. He once and for all time took care of the 'sin' issue. It is like crucifying the Lord of Glory all over again, to continue in sin consciousness. We have been called to righteousness consciousnes...'righteousness' meaning "right standing".
We are now and forever in right standing with God. Nothing can seperate us from the Love of God which was demonstrated by Jesus the Anointed. Should be strive to live a life of love for God, self, and mankind? YES. But the idea that any human flesh will - by it's own willful act - be 'free from sin' is erroneous.
We have all fallen short of the mark.
Jesus died once and for all time, nailing The Law - through His own body - to the Cross.
No sin can seperate us from God. The only seperation comes from an illusion that our mind has conjured up, in an attempt to save itself.
In anticipation of the Christmas celebration, I have been considering this excerpt on Jesus by Srila Prabhupada. It seems to me that since Jesus suffers for the sins of the world, it is imperative to stop sinning as per the direct injunctions in his teachings. These instructions are entirely unambiguous.
While God can be approached by the grace of guru (Jesus, or otherwise), the devotee must first surrender. Surrender, it seems, is not possible if we are addicted to sinning. Surrender is particularly impossible if we continue to sin with the expectation that the reaction will be neutralized by grace or by our own meritorious behaviors. All over the world religionists are making this same kind of mistake -- and not just the Christians. If we do not follow basic commandments, pure teachings are automatically diluted beyond recognition. If we are killing or supporting killing, no amount of faith makes up for this. Actually, faith would be factually expressed by avoiding killing in the first place. If even a small fraction of professed religious people took this up, our world would look very, very different.
Will we become perfect simply by avoiding the sinful behaviors identified as obstacles to spiritual life? Probably not. In fact, there is explicit instruction, in very tradition, to sing and glorify the name(s) of God. Avoidance of sin is the "negative" side of faith -- a mere prerequisite to actual spiritual life.
From Srila Prabhupada:
Christ can take the sufferings for the previous sins of his devotees. But first they have to be sane: "Why should I put Jesus Christ into suffering for my sins? Let me stop my sinful activities."
Suppose a man -- the favorite son of his father -- commits a murder. And suppose he thinks, "If there is any punishment coming, my father can suffer for me." Will the law allow it? When the murderer is arrested and says, "No, no. You can release me and arrest my father, I am his pet son," will the police officials comply with that fool's request? He committed the murder, but he thinks his father should suffer the punishment! Is that a sane proposal? No. You have committed the murder, you must be hanged." Similarly, when you commit sinful activities, you must suffer -- not Jesus Christ. This is God's law.
as He is, so are we in this world....
If I commit sin, it's the same as crucifying Jesus all over again. However, the Christians don't seem to mind that and slaughter billions of animals every year. It's very sad.
Billions slaughtered: You'd be mad too.
LOL Hiya, Sarvo....I'm just making my way back to this thread...
The topic of Jesus...especially right now....is very timely.
The birth of Jesus the Christ - whether one wants to consider that birth symbollically or literally - contains a profound message...a holy proclaimation made from the Divine Unseen to the human race: PEACE ON EARTH, GOOD WILL TOWARDS ALL MANKIND.
The Spirit of the Prince of Peace is a beautiiful Promise made to all of us. It is a promise of experiencing a life free from any fear or seperation from God. It is a promise of new beginnings, fresh starts, and hopefilled tomorrows.
The Promise of the King is for all...from the poorest street urchin to the Highest Office in any nation. It is free to all who believe that the miracle of God within Mankind is as relevant today as it was thousands of years ago, and before that.
Emmanuel....God With Us.
We are not alone.
Love, peace and prosperity to all, in the Name of the Christ..
In the name of Love.....
4 hours - hmmm - definitely looks like someone killed this thread.
Sweet Janie is right. In the same way that sunshine is always coming from the sun, love is always in everyones heart. I can turn to face the sun and feel the warmth and see the light and I can go into my heart and look for the Lord. Then I will become enlightened. The recommended way for me to enter my own heart and find God is chanting the maha mantra.
I love Jesus ...here is something I believe His Spirit said to us, from another:
To love is the greatest thing in life; it is very important to talk about love, to feel it, to nourish it, to treasure it, otherwise it will soon be dissipated, for the world is very brutal. If while you are young you don't feel love, if you don't look with love at people, at animals, at flowers, when you grow up you find that your life is empty; you will be very lonely, and the dark shadows of fear will follow you always. But the moment you have in your heart this extraordinary thing called love and feel the depth, the delight, the ecstasy of it, you will discover that for you the world is transformed.
- Jiddhu Krishnamurthi
The Spirit of the Christed One speaks through ALL..it is the sound of LOVE Hugs, Janey
Jesus will tell you that Krishna is his father. The Vedas will tell you that Jesus is shakti avesha avatar. He is prophesied in the Vedas. Nothing is left to chance. God's plan for us is perfect. Like Albert Einstein said, "God doesn't play dice with the universe."
Rolando A., they "claim" there is a "cave" in Bethlehem where Jesus was born (they didn't have wooden barns back then ...
after He was born, his mother wrapped him in swaddling clothes and PLACED Him in a manger.
5 days and counting. But my question is: Was He actually born in a manger, or someplace else?
Sarvo, so this is where you are, your over here in your own thread. Your starting to pass me up now.
Thanks Holly. Rolando, I completely agree with you. What you said is exactly right. Thanks very much. The posts on this thread convince me that the people self-selected into Care2 really are planet earth's last best hope for survival. Everyone on Care2 is angelically motivated because they honestly care about all life.
Guilty as charged, your Honor.
Does Ahura Mazda ring a bell??? Zoroaster(Zarathustra) in ancient Persia, was the "revealer" much like Moshe of the OT and Mohammed of the Q'ran...
Zoroastrianism was the first recorded dualist monotheistic religion. Good vs Evil et al... Ahura Mazda (Ohrmazd)The Good God Creator vs Arhiman the evil devi opponent...
I know you were only kidding with your comment, but there are many who really don't know...
OM Shanti
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
i dont consider myself a christian, but i absolutely believe in my heart that Jesus Christ is a true guru or spiritual master in the highest order and can deliver all that he had claimed to do, i give my humble obeisances to christians that sincerely and dilligently try to fallow his teachings.
Whatever path we choose to fallow always remain a personal one and if along the way our actions serves as an inspiration for others to fallow that same path, then maybe we have learned the true teachings of the master/s.
But we have to be on guard, not to let ourselves be blinded by our own vanity and start acting as if we are fallower numero uno, because the next step is the Guru complex-the second highest temptation.
Whether the bible is written by man or inspired by God, it is an important tool for christians for personal or preaching purposes, but like any tool or instrument it can be used for personal gain and profit. So many man in various paths have properly and inappropriately used the masters teachings. How does a drunk man use a lamp post?- for support not illumination.
Please forgive my arrogance and forgive my offences.
JESUS CHRIST rocks! Hare Krishna bol bol!
oh my gosh, you're still at it, lol. Patt seen those somewhere else the other day, maybe here, well done. Sarvo you wanted a long thread, you got one, lol
Sunshine
I love 'em all
Brahmanism: This is the sum of duty: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you.: Mahabharata 5:1517
Christianity: All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.: Matthew 7:12
Islam: No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother what which he desires for himself. Sunnah
Buddhism: Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.: Udana Varga 5:18
Judaism: What is hateful to you, do not to your fellowmen. That is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.: Talmud, Shabbat 31:a
Confucianism: Surely it is the maxim of loving-kindness: Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you.: Analects 15:23
Taoism: Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss.: T'ai Shag Kan Ying P'ien
Zoroastrianism: That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good: for itself. : Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5
How are you i hope u're doing well
Budhha ,Krishna, jesus is Muhammed al same and a real being,but traditions are different and varied because matter of "I" thanks for all precious info...
Jesus Christ is the incarnation of the supreme beeing. He is God and has no father, no mother, no ancestors, as he is before anything was created and he will be when nothing will be left anymore.
Oh Lord, we want to praise you and thank you for beeing so near to us all... you are wisdom, you are love, you are humble and so good, nothing that is outside you, nothing you didn't create... Heaven and earth you made, all the beeings that exist, you are A and O - Beginning and End, and all your creartion praises you, oh Holy one, since ever! Be praised and adored, Be praised as the Holy one forever!
May you bless us all, thank you so much!
I agree to the missing years, but what about his becoming? My belief is that God took all that was Good in "Himself", and called this "His Word", because Jesus is not a creation, "He" was and is, the same as God.
KTF
Sholla
No problem . I can even read it upside down .
Oh darn it, I am so silly, I thought I was going to be at the bottom of the page. Thats what I get for being new, I guess.
Sonja
Hi, How do you like this, I am at the bottom of the page now. The wind blew me down here.
Nice to meet you all, I am new here. 
Sonja
My greatest hope
I am curious about what other Faiths say about the beginings of Jesus. I am of 1 Faith and 1 Flock, but I know that their are other flocks that have their faith. God "Himself", stated that, "I must leave you now, for there are others that are not of your flock with which "I" must attend."
I use the word faith, as religion means to tie and bind, and I chose to bind myself to Christ, it isn't a requirement.
KTF
Sholla
Remember that the Roman Empire wanted people think that God created the Latin Language to speak to them. They did not want people to listen to anyone else but them. That is why they selected which lines to translate and which lines to burn of the previous writings.
The universe remains the language of God, written by the hand of God. Our languages will always struggle to find the words to describe God's reality.
The Bible is specific about what was created first. You're right, it wasn't earth. The Word, was created before earth, and the earth was created through The Word. The Word became flesh and walked among us.. ie; Jesus. Now I'm not saying this was the order as it was not. This tract is about Jesus, and I felt it pertinent that Jesus' beginings should be noted.
Keep the Faith
Sholla
Note also, that the earth is but one tiny speck, in but one galaxy, among billions of galaxies. Creation did not begin with the earth, nor will it end here.
God has all the time in eternity, and all the space in the universe to keep trying to create a form of life that can exist and endure.
What is created is temporary, like us, but what each creation creates, in it's short time here, remains long after it is gone.
What we DO is forever.
Only what we are is temporary.
How old is the iron that carries the oxygen throughout your body?
How old is what created you ?
A word is not Truth.
Only that one who knows the Truth can then know the meaning of a previous word, or to create a new word for that Truth that they found, to help others find it.
A word CAN be for a Truth and CAN be given to others as a reminder that an Observation of Truth existed in some place, and the writer of the word feels that it needs to be found by the reader of that word they have created.
But the word can not be called neither a Truth nor a Lie until you can find the observed Truth that it points to. A word remains only a word until a Truth is found where the word points.
The Truth is, was, and forever will be the SAME for all living things. The only difference between religions are their lies.
Truth is the enemy of religions. Religions can only exist in the absense of Truth.
Someday, Humans will separate the Truth of Reality from the lies of religions and then the bloody war of words between religions will end and the religions will vanish back to their Birth Place... their lack of Faith in Reality, which was CREATED by their conflicting lies fabricated of mere words.
Meanwhile, religions will have to curse each other to hell in order to exist in God's Reality.
Thanks Thomas. Nice info. Later on we'll post interesting stuff about how reincarnation was taken out of the Bible but how it's still in there anyway. Also the interesting karmic results were warned about in the Book of Revelations; they were ignored and the consequences were dire. We still suffer as a result.
Guilty as charged, your Honor.
Spreading the Word
Tyndale never finished his Old Testament. He was captured in Antwerp in 1535 and charged with heresy. The next year, he was executed by strangulation and burned at the stake. Yet others picked up his work, and Tyndale's version of the Word lived on. In fact, practically every English translation of the Bible that followed took its lead from Tyndale--including the 1611 King James Version. According to one study, 83 percent of that version's New Testament is unaltered Tyndale, even though a team of scholars had years to rework it.
The reason is simple. Tyndale's English translation was clear, concise, and remarkably powerful. Where the Vulgate had Fiat lux, et lux erat, Wyclif's old version slavishly read "Be made light, and made is light." Not exactly stirring. But Tyndale's translation of the same passage is still familiar to nearly every reader of English: "Then God said: 'Let there be light,' and there was light." Subsequent English writers may have been more original, but none wrote words that reached more folks than these.
Steve Sampson
December 8, 2005
More than all the religions ever written.
And More True than words.
Thanks Sholla, you're a welcome addition to Care2Guru. I can tell you are spirit filled. God Bless you. God Bless us all.
Hare Krishna
1st I'd like to thank Sarvo for the invite. You were quite right that I'd find this tract fasinating.
2nd, You all should know where I'm comin from.
I'm a born-again Christian of 9 years. If it's not in the Bible, I won't follow. I have had experiences that have set my Faith, where it is, and none can change it. All I can say about the experiences is what the Bible says about truly seeking "Their" faces. Do it with ALL your heart, and you will see.
I belong to no church, but watch Pastor Bill at Guts Church on my computer. His is the only teaching I will except, as it is Bible based. The Bible I have predates the King James. I have a Tyndale/Wycliffe.
Now it is my understanding that the Dead Sea Scrolls, follow the Bible pretty precisely, so how could the romans have destroyed all works?
Sunshine, I myself was raped, my daughter sexually abused before she was 2. One of my sons charged as a 3rd degree sex-offender at the age of 8, due do the teachings of his father with whom he lived, he didn't live with me.
I can only pass these words on to you that God so vibrantly brought to my mind, it was something Jesus had said, and the rest are my words.
Father, forgive them for they know not what they do. For if they understood that their actions have caused separation from "You", I'm sure that they would not have done it.
then wipe the dust of them off your feet and walk away.
I'm not going to tell anyone that their belief is wrong, for my Faith prevents this. I cannot be a stumbling block for anyone, for God reaches "His" people "His" own way, through what-ever means "He" deems is right for that person. Through what-ever religion "He" chooses. All I ask is that you don't try to push your belief on me. I'm totally into sharing though.
Need to spend time with my family, so till next time, if I'm wanted back,
Keep the Faith
Sholla
I am one small, current, manfestation of a billion years of Creation.
In various countries, various people, in various religions, using varuios langugaes have told me where to look for God.
My standard response is, ''Where is God not ?''.
I hope they understand and live For Creation, and nothing less.
How was it the best thing that happened?
The answer is, "It's the only way Krishna could get my attention."
God, I am so clueless. Please help me.
Thomas and Peace, your spiritual advancement is palpable.
Hare Krishna!
Alx, thanks so much. I can see that your time in India has served you well. Your posts our excellent.
Michael O. You are living from your heart. God is in your heart and so you make it easy for Him to direct your steps.
Jai, Paramatma, ki jai!
Dear Sunshine, When Sarvasatya and I were still reeling from the pain it was hard to see the benefit. After enough time had gone by, then I could see that it was the only thing that would make me desperate enough to call out for Krishna's help. For me, I can now see, it was an example of tough love. Krishna had to grab me by the scruff of the neck and drag me out of an atheistic family. I was nearly killed in the process and there was a remarkable amount of pain involved. It took, altogether, about thirty-two years for the anguish and suffering to subside but now I see that it was all definitely worth it and I wouldn't want it any other way. Also, now, as I try to understand how I am accountable for all my suffering, I am able to reclaim all the power Krishna originally intended me to have. Whenever I've been harmed, I somehow or another placed my self in harm's way.
Andreas, achintya abedha bedha tattva means inconceivably, simultaneously one and different. The scriptural application has to do with the understanding that we are in this material world but not of it. The soul is immeasurable. The soul is always active. In the same way that an atomic or sub-atomic particle is just beyond the range of our perception the soul is inconceivable.
It's inconceivable!
There are 17,621 words in the Latin Language.
That is the language into which the Roman Empire Translated the texts they stole during their conquests.
Reality is the Language of God.
All of mans languages, combined, can not replace the eyes that God gave you.
Only you can be inspired by observing the world.
Only you can teach nations about living things.
Only you can teach religions about God.
When you turn to face a religion then you turn your back on God.
I don't think anyone's thinking is right or wrong. It's personal. To each his own! Perhaps someday we will find out. Til then, believe what you want. Just have faith in something and treat others with respect.
Tis all!
Peace be with you always!
Sunshine,
When the greedy rulers of slaves forbade, cursed and condemned Normal Human Contact then they created Abnormal Human Contact.
We all suffer without that wisdom that our eyes have been denied.
One day he was a little exasperated. He saw that I, "Just didn't get it." He's a Vietnam vet with one arm missing and he pointed at his stump and said to me, "See this - See this?" I was a little taken aback and hesitantly responded, "Ye -- s". He then said, "It's the best thing that ever could have happened to me." I didn't say anything but internally my response to him was, "Yeah, you and John Wayne, you big goof." I couldn't accept his statement. But then about a year and a half went by and suddenly everything made sense.<<
My question, probably a very stupid one:
How (was it the best thinkg that happened)?
you know Sarvo, I've been brutally raped and almost killed, lots of stuff, I leaned to forgive but I will sure tell you now it was NOT THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO ME THIS LIFE, nor is what is happening to me and millions of others NOW
How about learning beyond suffering here, now, making our own realties and the laws that Christ and all higher evolved beings know and keep learning so we don't have to suffer and learn from suffering. instead of relgious brainwashing and growing within & wihtout of ourselves.
After nailing Christ to the cross, The Roman Empire spent 560 years writing their new religion, using the Christ's name.
Because they burned the books, we will never know the True story of Christs Life , but inspiration did not begin or end with the invention of Christianity. Inspiration continues to haunt all religions.
Life requires Truth to exist, and so, religions grow until they are so intrusive that they harm creation beyond it's ability to support both the future of Creation and also a religion... then religions collapse and Life returns to evolving and growing.
there are lots of links on www.google.com when you add Jesus Christ to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle Jesus Christ, search. I found a PDF on www.purebhakti.com but it is quite difficult and lenthy to read so didn't post here. It is a Vishnava site. Not all is to be found in the Bible or any other relgioius text. I feel we need to take from them all and transcend them.
side note: I have learned through suffering S., it doesn not mean that help is not needed that we will not learn then. It is up to the individual isn't it.
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You wrote:
Sarvo P.Friday, 7:51 AM
Jesus is a Vaishnava, he even knew the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Achintya abeda beda tattva.
That's interesting! Can you help me understand what you mean? Is there a statement of Jesus, that even contains the Heisenberg principle???
I DO believe in Jesus and in his divinity, so I also DO believe that he knew this principle. But your statement makes me suspect, that there is even a part in the Bible about that.
Can you tell me where?
Thanks!
Cheers,
Andreas
Yeah Alx, this thread is moving. Thanks for joining.
Sunshine. When I got to Alachua in '95 I was working at the ISKCON World Review. The guy in charge, Sarvasatya, has a heart of gold and he saw that I was a basket case. He saw that I was clueless about so many things. He was very compassionate and kind and paternal and became like a mentor to me. One day he was a little exasperated. He saw that I, "Just didn't get it." He's a Vietnam vet with one arm missing and he pointed at his stump and said to me, "See this - See this?" I was a little taken aback and hesitantly responded, "Ye -- s". He then said, "It's the best thing that ever could have happened to me." I didn't say anything but internally my response to him was, "Yeah, you and John Wayne, you big goof." I couldn't accept his statement. But then about a year and a half went by and suddenly everything made sense. I realized that the worst things that had happened to me were really the best. Now in my life I'm seeing that as I look for the problems and difficulties that are coming my way in a positive frame of mind and see how Krishna is giving them to me for my benefit they are becoming less and less drastic. How this applies to anyone else, I really don't know. It's a recent discovery for me. As I see how Krishna does everything to bring me closer to Him, even apparent setbacks and great misfortune is becoming excitingly relishable and mysteriously satisfying. Krishna's love is in everything.
We are created in God's image, which image is that as God doesn't have an image as we know but has created millions alone on earth, God only knows how many throughout the universes, material and anti-matter and how many exist at the same time and we in them. Aliens are created by All that IS too, Vishnu has 4 arms, Krsna 2, Radha female with 2 arms, some have more, then we can get to the animals and and and ........
I have to go back to bed and then take care of my crisis on this side of screen with no one to help, how aabour prayers for help 
, can one start a prayer theread here, or go to Prayer Rangers, I am up a creek with no paddle and even if I had one I wouldn't be able to use it.
Sarvo will you get of the HIS thing, All That Is, IS ALL THAT IS, BOTH FEMALE AND MALE ND EVERYTHING ELSE, PLANES OF EXISTANCE WE CAN'T EVEN COMPREHEND AND DOESN'T HAVE AN IMAGE AS WE KNOW IT. The most complex DIAD created by GOD was MALE & FEMALE, although All That Is says that any TRIAD's are the most powerful in our religions no matter how we've messed them up and applied our own limitations upon them and All That Is,as Joe states. Yes we are a drop of water as compared to the Ocean of All That Is where we came from and I never asked to be created in the first place, and All That Is says it doesn't need anything so why create us - got bored? Wanted to experience itself through US & every other creation, the original observer.
now you want to pray for me then how about praying for me to get major help and fast on this side of the screen, I could use a reallly long prayer thread for that.
Mike,
Thanks. You're so right. When we stop learning, we stop living. More power to you good friend.
Actually, Mike, the ancient writings explain that qualitatively, we are just like the Lord. Quantitatively, though, there's no comparison. A rough example is that we are like Krishna in the same way that a drop of water is like the ocean. We have all the same qualities as God. In fact, we are fashioned in His image. We are, however, minute and He is unlimited. That's the main difference between us and the Supreme Personality.
OK Joe that's fantastic ~ Thanks!
Much of the conversation above proceeds from specific interpretations of Jesus. Many of the specific interpretations are more or less right or wrong, but as with our thinking on many gurus, they miss a lot of the point because they circumscribe the teacher/guru/superior spiritual being to a space within which we think we understand them.
I know I don't understand 1% of Jesus, much less of Buddha, very little of Marie Laveaux or the good Doctor. The first step for me, is to stop pretending that I understand them. When I accept that, it becomes impossible for me to preach thus "Jesus meant this," or "Buddha would want us to that," or "Krishna wants the worlds this way."
Instead I say "based on my limited and imperfect understanding, one of the many things Jesus stood for is helping the powerless," or more frequently, "in my encounter with the thinking of Buddha, I begin to understand suffering this way..."
Even these statements lead me away from encountering these spiritual beings directly and acting according to those direct encounters. Speaking of which, my met tet reminds me I'm supposed to be working on something else.
Melissa K.Jesus was a man... Tuesday, 1:42 PM
who became angry with injustice.
He overturned tables in the Synagogue where they were holding a market trading and exchanging money.
He was not meek and mild with the evils of the world...he voiced his opinions and he told Satan where to go.
Did he not? 
I'm not trying to condone agressive behavior or anything but, I believe that there comes a time in every persons life where you have to take a stand. He didn't kill anyone...he just 'demon'strated his opposition of their ways.
Sometimes when bad thoughts begin to permeate your existence you just have to say..."No! Get behind me...and out of my way. I have other things to attend to and you will not interfere with my mission."
We have placed all illusions before us, our mission is to deal with them as successfully as possible in order to attain a happy balance. All paths are different to the Source...we may pass one another at a crossroad...the rules of the road are known. Keep to the right, and pass on the straight and narrow. Stop at intersections...look in all directions...proceed cautiously and try to maintain a safe speed. Oh, and don't forget to honk if you love Jesus!
This above quote is from Melissa K. It's so wonderful!
Paolita the Peruvian Princess. Paola, did I ever tell you I love you?
Jesus is a Vaishnava, he even knew the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Achintya abeda beda tattva.
One time Mahatama Gandhi was asked what he thought of western civilization. He said, "Yes, that would be nice."
"Science has out-stripped spirituality. We have guided missiles and mis-guided men."
I love that one. That's Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Hi Paola, can't send you a star either, already have this week , do have to go have major crisis this side of screen.
Truth, Light, Love
Sunshine
thank you Sarvo, you know what for You cannot currently send a star to Sarvo because you have done so within the last week.
"Science has out-stripped spirituality. We have guided missiles and mis-guided men."
I also remember a thought from Mohandas Ghandi that:
"I like very much your Christ. I do not (like some of) your Christians."
Jesus Christ was a very good example. Some people who claim to be his adherents are not such good examples. I suspect Jesus would tell them so. He certainly did not have trouble telling his Jewish brethren what he thought of them - good or bad.
YEAH....SO NICE SUNSHINE
HI SLIM AND SARVITO!!
Sunshine you're tough and lovable. That's what's nice about you!
Michael, here is dictionary defintion of outlaw:
- A fugitive from the law.
- A habitual criminal.
- A rebel; a nonconformist: a social outlaw.
- A person excluded from normal legal protection and rights.
- A wild or vicious horse or other animal.
Jesus was Hebrew, therefore Jewish. He was taught by the Essenes, a deep rooted Hebrew Cult that kept itself shrouded in secrecacy and trained him in many historical thoughts and practices in his younger years, these expanded through his travels.
By looking at the above selection for me it would 1 (c). Also later he preached LOVE more than fear as was the Old Testament.
If you look up the world CULT, you will find that any relgion also is defined as cult.
You cannot currently send a star to Skip because you have done so within the last week. 
I'm for rendering service to Sri Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by chanting Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare and engaging in the process of bhakti yoga, dancing in ecstasy and taking bhagavat prasad. Any questions?
To the Romans Jesus was an outlaw and a rabble rouser.
Hare Bol!!!
Excellent thread
Yikes Mike.
on you.
BTW, now you know why I love Alina.
Dolceanstar, Eirwen told me you were an excellent reflector and that I should rely on you for good advice. I'm suspecting that she was spot on.
Sarvo You never give yourself more than You can handle. You are a outspoken, sexy wiseass, so there's 3 fingers pointing at You for starters . . . . .
Marley was a Rasta, Moses was a Jew, Jesus was an outlaw just like me and You
Dear Sarvo, we can handle that. 
Why is everybody so emotional 
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People, relax ! 
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When I point a finger at someone there are three fingers pointing back at me. Can I handle that?
Hi.
Stormy, you are asking what do you have to forgive yourself for. We must forgive ourselves for allowing us to feel victims for example, ... i forgive myself to feel certain way, i'm forgiving myself for torturing me, for not taking more care of me, for not loving me. Those examples.
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Karma is sometimes difficult to understand, because we must first agree that we are not this body. Like Thomas said: i'm no longer that child. And years later we can say, we are no longer that man, or whatever, ... but 1 lifetime being to short to understand how did we build up our respective karmas. It is easier to understand if we know who we are and we have just been changing our bodies, due to being 'worn out'.
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Have been reading Seth myself and i liked it.
Sarvo, that one was good: we are victims to a degree we find outer world responsible for our situation (written by memory, lol)
Tulsi, pls come back. I am a Mayavadi too.
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Mike O. Thanks for the nice question.
If at the time of death I haven't learned what I need to learn, then I may find myself in an unfortunate and painful situation. If I take my own life before I've lived out the amount of time God has given me to learn the lessons I need to learn, then I will still have unfulfilled desires and in a ghostly and hellish condition I will strive to satisfy those desires. A ghost has desires but no body with which to satisfy them. It is guaranteed to be a frustrating experience. So it's better for me to live out my life in whatever way God desires me to.
I need all the prayers offered, but done with LOVE, not this. Excuse my typo's as well, I am quite ill/disabled and told by a very devotted Vishnava who I had know for near 20 years, that if I didn't take 1st Initiation and convert he would be gone and at the most horrendous time abeiting more suffering and pain which he could have greatly helped stopped but OH THEN THAT WOULD INTERFER WITH MY KARMA, MY SUPPORTING A SPONSORED CHILD IN AFRICA IS INTERFERRING WITH HER KARMA, I HOPE IT DOES FOR HER, FOR THE BETTER ALREADY.
God has said that religions have kept us apart, look at what is/has been done in the name of relgion and continues to, including India.
Hari Krsna and Haribol
I have been Vaishnava , I have tried to work it out with Tulsi, you, others and in the/from the original line in India as was A.C. Prapupada, and I am not into brainwashing and control to extremes nor the way women are regarded in the scheme of things in Hare Krsna which I am sure many members here may not even be aware of and I am not talking about Indian wives in India as someone referenced back to once before and was way off the mark of what I was talking about. My Tulsi necklace is OFF now, it broke and a new one blessed by Gurudeva awaits me but I find I cannot accept it because I do not, can not concur with all the teachings. Although my heart is still open to Krsna Conciousness and learning with LOVE, as I first felt it and keep my books and prayer beads and chant and learning other forms of going WITHIN to attain higher conciousness. Not everything being an offense that it gets to just being/alive is an offense, women even more so and are put down freqently in the Veda's and the teachings of the A.C.'s even Citanyana Mahaprabhu. We are of God aka All That Is, who made us. Think about that and perfection. My truth and growing continues and by staying open not closed I learn more. The more you go within the more you learn. I learned to get closer to within and higher through KC than I ever had before (except for 1 spontaneous experince that last for 4 days after decades ago), until the brainwashing started and everything was an offence, I've been told much of what a devotee does here on care2 would be considered an offense and not learning bhatki. The way of pure bhakti is of great teaching and not an easy path and I still look to that and remain on the fringe of Vishnava commity so that I may still learn and take what I feel is right for me, not being forced on me and told never to ask questions as this is the ultimate truth so never ask any questions and this is your place and your lot so accept it. Accept that you have to be in a male body on earth before you can be with Krsna, that only males can receive the Thread of Mercy and Protection from their Gurudeva's, that men can stop being householders at 50 (or before), leave their wives and children and supporting them and take Sannyas, that women are constantly being blamed by man and relgions for their falling down and off the path, man is responsible for his own thoughts and actions, the list is long.
There are many paths to higher conciousness and getting off this cursed planet that we have helped to make and create the conditions for through our collective conciousness and those that don't do anything about it.
As for SUICIDE, there is no SIN as we think of it, it will be something we will have to address in this or another life, there are bad actions. How many and what level of conciousness/universes there are God knows. It is different grades of conciousness and our conciousness creates our realities and groups of consciouness create larger realities or what seem to be and create the soil for bad and good things to happen by collective conciousness thereby being globally responsible just not individually.
And everyone has a subtle soul/body that leaves when you are dead that others think of as ghosts which are not (others go out of body and see it as I have), some it is an echo of that personality that was here. Although some get bound to earth because of their actions doing them over and over HATE BINDS YOU TO THE ACTION, and some not realizing they are dead and to GO TO THE LIGHT to move on because their death was so violent or sometimes they stay behind because of LOVE.
Also 1 soul can not fit into a human body, so there is the discussion of liberated body as well as put forth by the Veda's and that the soul is delivered to the females womb though a man's penis through his sperm into her ovary..
Jesus was in Jaganattha Puri when he was 16 years old with the Vaishnava's and learned from them, Prapupada knew that. Jesus is a very old soul who has attained great levels of higher concioiusne, some it is said was Adam, although the story of Adam and Eve is a myth.Read the new testament again, watch the movies at Christ-mas time and most of the sayings, parables are Vaishnava/Vaishnava based. Also as Prapupada said, Krsna=Christos (in latin)=Christ. I have that book above and many more as I know you do, and ones you do not and vis-versa as our Gurudeva's have been different although much of the same texts of course and the Veda's and more books being translated by Gurudeva as fast as he can before his disappearance day that haven't been translated before. Much that come out of them is wonderful, some is not.
Do you think any Gurudevas from India would come and disclaim Christ's crucifiction or who he really was, who is a very advanced, enlightened & old soul, to the very people they want to convert to Hare Krsna?! Or to tell, as mentioned somewhat above, that his teachings, many, were from the Veda's. It is said that when they first came over it was a very watered down version, even the interpretations of the Gita by some as to not offend.
Someone was going to jump over a big cliff. He took the name of krsna and jumpt confidently over. I christian man who was also going to jump over, saw how nicely the first man jumpt. After thinking a little, he took the name of Jesus and was ready to jump. Just when he was going to jump he hesitaded a little and took the name af Jesus and the name of Krsna. He failt and falled down in the crack.
Whatever way you are going and what you are doing believe in it.
Sarvo;
everyone is entitled to their opinion is why i voiced mine also,i am not deffending the comments about the bible but your comment on Sunshine as a person.
Please clear what is mayavadi and why should one who is not a Vaishanava or so called devotee need prayers? are they better than anyone else?
this is the problem every religion/group/cult think they have the right path and the key to salvation but we must chastice or reprimend with love and not minimizing others,Sunshine has been hurted enough in the So Called Vaishnava camps to be also hurted here when all she was looking was friendship,guidance and understanding.
my point given i bid farewell and please don't pray for me rather pray you will understand what is the real position of everone in the path.
love to all
tulsi
People may think what they want, interestingly enough we all have our own truths (not to be confused here, i agree completelly with you Night M. ) . I think if someone think someone else is sarcastic, this says a lot of the one who is thinking, not of the one who the thinking one is thinking of 
So, everything is cool.
Is it ? 
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Sarvo, Thank God for you...despite the fact that some may think of what you wrote as sarcastic or otherwise...it takes a truly caring soul to come out and share what is for the good and enlightenment, enrichment of all...and you posses such a soul. I am grateful to God that I could get to know you
and I know that so many here are too...God bless you.
sarvo
my mother always told me:
dont worry about a thing. Just love God. and all the rest will take be taken care of...
sometimes hard to follow...but true, yes?
Someone has said, "The Bible is a history book based on fear and written by man."
The Bible, in it's own way, is in pursuance of the Vedic version. I refuse to insult the Christians by challenging their claim that it is the word of God.
Dear Sarvo;
I found your comment "poor Sunshine" a bit sarcastic. You sound completely like a Hare Krishna and remind me why I did the best thing in my life to walk out of that fanatical Group.
Do You have the greatest Learning tools we need to understand more about tolerance and unconditional love.
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu took initiation from a Mayavady Guru tell me why? He said to offer respect to anyone including those in mayavadi Garb so why He tought this ? and what really is Mayavadi I remember when we did not liked something we always labeled as not bonafide or mayavadi but do we really understand?.
Each person has the right to their own opinion and the right to try other methods just like children growing they try drugs etc. even they get hurt is the way to grow,so who are we to Judge?
by the way I am leaving your group.
Do unto others as you would like to be done to you.
tulsi
Dear Sunshine,
I'm trying really hard to serve Srila Prabhupada and usually failing miserably but I keep struggling anyway. By how I behave I choose my parents. Is that alright?
Now on to the neat story about Jesus and how he sent Thomas to India: All the disciples gathered together with Jesus when he returned from resurrection and Jesus encouraged them all to go out and spread the gospel all over the world. They were all fired up and enthusiastic except for one. No surprise, Thomas was dragging his feet. He had a tendency to be like that. It was one of the reasons he was known as doubting Thomas. So one day Jesus was speaking with the merchant Habib from Persia. Today we call it Iran. Habib had great caravans and strings of camels crossing the Gobi, the Sahara. He was a big merchant and traveled everywhere buying and selling just about anything you can think of. Jesus said, "Habib, I have this slave here I'd like to sell you. His name is Thomas." Habib looked at Thomas and then he looked back at Jesus. Something didn't add up. Jesus was just wearing simple cloth. He didn't look wealthy enough to own slaves and Habib didn't feel comfortable with the offer. When he had a chance Habib took Thomas aside and said, "Thomas, who is this Jesus Christ to you anyhow?" Thomas immediately clasped his hands in front of his chest, lowered his head and said, "He is my Lord and Master." Needless to say Habib was much relieved and thought, "Oh, good I can do this deal after all." When he had a chance Habib said to Jesus, "OK, I'll buy this Thomas from you. How much do you want?" Jesus said, "Twenty-three shekels." So Habib immediately gave Jesus the twenty-three pieces of silver. Jesus turned to Thomas and said, "Thomas, you have a long journey ahead of you. You're going to India." Then Jesus said, "Here you're going to need these." And he gave Thomas the twenty-three shekels. Later after converting many to Christianity in South India St. Thomas was martyred. Someone came up behind him and cut off his head. It's a relic that was never found. So Christianity in India has a eighteen hundred year jump on us here in North America. As a result I've found that by and large Christians from India are a lot less freaked out by the Vedas. They tend to know about them. Many have read the Bhagavad-gita, the Mahabharata and even the Ramayana and many of them see it as helpful information about God the Father. Nuf Sed ~ Hare Krishna. Om Tat Sat
The Bible is a history book based on fear and written by man. YOu do not choose your parents, although what you did in your previous life will help to determine who they are to set the stage for what you need to learn/didn't learn in the next lifetime.
I didn't know you were a Gurudeva Sarvo
As for Christ, hate/fear, reincarnation, religious texts and why and how they were written, real truths, unveriverses, higher plants (as in the Veda's) Budda's Christ and others being Speakers and more highly evovled beings that were once here NOT GODS, of God. God is neither male nor female = All That Is.
I have read most of the Seth books, some in line with the Veda's (also written by men) and came across a short mp3 of a quick overview of Seth Speaks, which is quite a thick book. It also more clearly defines what 2/3 of the worlds population today think of Karmic debt. Conversations with God books do this as well, so does what the Bleep and many other books around for along time, much in the Veda's but they have been skewed by the men that wrote them for many parts as well as other relgious texts, some based on fear some on love. Even the Bible isn't all true, references to reincarnation the Church tried to take out, they didn't get all of them, including the New Testiment. The true historial Christ was in Jagnnath Prui when he was 16, during what are called the disappearing years when they travelled the middle east, eygpt and India. ..
SETH SPEAKS- MP3-short overview
SETH SPEAKS- Unlock Your Reality NOW
I have most of Seth's books (Jane Roberts) and still refer to them, if you want to unlock your realities Seth's material can help, so can What the Bleep and Conversations with God, there is a long list of others, the Veda's, all pretty much include healing on various levels as well and soul growth, conciousness vibrating to higher levels.
Seth speaking on Reality, hate, healing, Christ, dogma, regligions re: fear or love, our realities,hate, good, evil, thoughts, creating realzities, mulpticple realities, male images/God, creating our own realities in this life and others to come. Previous civilzations (he loves talking about the Lumarians, which he does so here, he, the soul of Seth has an attraction to their history, maybe because he was one, although I know he was also a Pope when there were 2 Popes and he was assinated in one of his lives on earth), the speakers, this is audio and touches on many topics in the book Seth Speaks and there are other books by Seth (Jane Roberts is/was a speaker).
http://nrfiles.net/files/Seth_Speaks_abridged_audio_2of2.mp3
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Guess what Melissa, you can even forgive your parents for the genetics. We choose our parents. The individual soul about to take birth in the material world finds the perfect set of parents. When I came into this world, my karma from activity I engaged in during past previous lifetimes determined which parents would be most perfect for me. The more I can hold myself accountable for my experience in this world, the less likely I am to become a victim.
Would you want the role of victim? 
It isn't necessary! Someone has already been there and done that...literal translation just doesn't cut it with me. Why sacrifice or punish yourself? I don't believe in war...or self-punishment or mental or physical torture of any kind. It's quite true that we are harder on ourselves than anyone else can be. Why? I don't for one second believe that it's what God wants for us. I Refuse to let anyone put me on a guilt trip and I am faithful that the Cosmic Spirit is as gentle and loving as the greatest traits in ALL species at any given moment.
I love the essence of the words of Christ. The Bible, to me is a good book for giving a historical setting about the cultural mindset of that day. Translations can completely misconstrue truth, and stories handed down from generation to generation can become quite inaccurate and from person to person subtle changes are made. I am a simple person living in a complex world...which I sincerely believe is illusory, just because no one really has it quite figured out. I just believe that humans have a tendancy to be base and prehistoric if they DON'T believe in themselves as images of God. People involved in Olympics know the value of a positive focus, and how better can you be if you allow a Godlike essence to guide your life? Balance...that's the key. Forgiving yourself your human qualities doesn't hurt one bit as long as you have learned a lesson.
I like the idea of karma...it isn't called that in the Christian dogma that I've ever learned...but, there is certainly scripture that hints of it. So, I have held on to this concept. I would never try to take anyones belief away or tell them that it's wrong...but, by george...ewww let me rephrase that...by gum...please, don't try to say that MY belief is wrong.
All paths to the Source, the Energy, the Great Spirit, God, Allah, Jehova...what ever that you might call the Essence, All That Is, Was, and Ever Will Be, is the truth. When you look past all the dogma and ritual of any religion the message is the same.
Love
I, myself do not have to suffer...because someone else has already suffered the consequences of spreading the truth...turning on the light of hope to all human kind. There have been many, great teachers. They all will tell you that there is not doom unless that is what's on your agenda for this lifetime. I like the idea that we are in the creators image...because that...then puts the responsibility where it belongs, with you...or me. We cannot blame anyone else for what we do with our lives. We are the force that makes it happen. I am NOT denying a loving, divine, supreme being...the being is within you. You are of the divine essence...it doesn't make you greater than...it makes you the descendant of...just knowing that fact can indeed, make certain personalities feel special, smarter, better than anyone else.
They will learn...just as our children go through learning stages...from the time that they are conceived...science has learned that they are learning in the womb...what science hasn't yet learned is that they were learning in a dimension beyond the womb...and before that. The article that I pasted to my profile was written by a gentleman who went into great detail about the minute aspects of our composition. He made a comment about everything seems to have three, different types of compounds. I believe that it's because of dimensional recognition, as in...the third dimension. The third planet from the solar power that keeps life on Earth alive. The religion in which I was brought up has The Trinity. The Father, The Son and The Whole Spirit. Thinking about this concept seems pretty simple to me, it's generational...but, that Spirit...The Divine Spark or Energy. That, from which life is born and instills the intuitive process of the truth which has only to be attained through combining the mental, physical and the spiritual. Once these three have been combined, there will be an awakening. It doesn't happen without discipline and faith and will. Ah, ha...another trinity! Birth IS an evolutionary process. Even the Source had it's birth and it's father and mother.
It may sound crazy, but...my religion and science beliefs have merged. I like to think that the Godhead is actually two entities initially because it does take two, force essences to unite...become one, divide then multiply. Psychologically, God is like parenting. We have a source who gave us life, loves us very much but, as most parents...at least the good ones, watches us grow up...intervenes only when asked or needed and is happy when we are happy. Isn't that simple?
We can blame our parents for our looks genetically, and the type of environment where they raised us but, from there on the ball is in our court. What we make of ourselves is up to us. The karma...the karma. Like going to school...it takes many years of study and learning to complete...some pass with flying colors, some fail and must repeat, some drop out. The reality that we see is based on the reality that we don't see. Parallels in a sense. I even think that our bodies inner space and organs parallel outer space. Go ahead and laugh, but that's my belief.
By this time, if anyone actually reads this, you will think me nutz and wonder what I've been smoking...honestly, I quit smoking a month after my granddaughter was born...five years ago. I just wanted to see if I could use up all 6000 characters for this message. 
But, I have 200 to go and I just can't think of anything more to write. Oh, yes...
~Love~Light~Laughter~
Peace on Earth 
1
Sarvo,tom, Thank you. your replies are very much appreciated. I am seeing more clearly what I need to do in order to free myself from what I have held on to for way too long.If you two don't mind I am going to print out This thread. I need to read it over and over.
Love and Light, Stormy
Thomas, I think you answerd my question,I am starting to understand.
Namaste' Stormy
Sarvo,
Thank you,I am still at the anger stage,but even that is beganing to lessen,then comes letting go.Another site I no longer visit advised me to first forgive myself. I still don't understand how to go about it,or forgive myself for what?For all my many faults?I am so confused,and trying so hard to be a better person.
Namaste' Stormy
Sarvo,Thank you for all the wonderful information.
There are times I find it very difficult to be humble,but I am working on it.My real struggle is with forgiveness.
How does one forgive things done to you as a child?
Namaste' Stormy
I'm so glad I put this thread in here. What wonderful posts. Melissa, I agree Jesus was no namby pamby. He did what had to be done but as Holly points out he was always obedient to his father. Humility is always necessary. Confrontation for the sake of confrontation or simply to save face or to secure my material situation for sense gratification; that is never condoned. Krishna, however, even told Arjuna to fight for a just cause. So as I see it you're both right. And Brittany I'm so much glad and grateful that you appreciate this information about Jesus.
Has anyone heard how Jesus sold Thomas into slavery to get him to India? It's one of my all time favorite events in all of history.
The lesson I learned from the Guru Jesus, was humility... Reaching the understanding that all good will is divine will; it is not me but Thy will through me, that all is done. Tempering my ego's need to claim credit for any and all actions, thoughts, etc., has allowed Grace to reveal itself in my life. What a boon!
OM Shanti
who became angry with injustice.
He overturned tables in the Synagogue where they were holding a market trading and exchanging money.
He was not meek and mild with the evils of the world...he voiced his opinions and he told Satan where to go.
Did he not?
I'm not trying to condone agressive behavior or anything but, I believe that there comes a time in every persons life where you have to take a stand. He didn't kill anyone...he just 'demon'strated his opposition of their ways.
Sometimes when bad thoughts begin to permeate your existence you just have to say..."No! Get behind me...and out of my way. I have other things to attend to and you will not interfere with my mission."
We have placed all illusions before us, our mission is to deal with them as successfully as possible in order to attain a happy balance. All paths are different to the Source...we may pass one another at a crossroad...the rules of the road are known. Keep to the right, and pass on the straight and narrow. Stop at intersections...look in all directions...proceed cautiously and try to maintain a safe speed. Oh, and don't forget to honk if you love Jesus! 
Beep, beep.
I agree 100%. I have found that many Christians do not represent tolerance. I have also allowed myself to be guided by Jesus because of his compassion. I believe that he was a teacher to humanity. He taught people to understand and embrace differences, and accept the ignorance that many are consumed by.
I value Jesus as a man in society. Though his father was God, he represented himself well. He was honest and spoke to those that listened. He died for his belief. He never claimed any label nor did he ask for people to give him anything. He gave them words and lessons to live by. I just love the compassion he displayed, and the humble life that he lived.
I found a website that is a christian group in kansas that is disgusting. Jesus never asked for others to condemn people. I am shocked by what many churches teach others.
I am glad that you have many thoughts about this issue as I do. I think it would do the world good to embrace this lesson you have taught me.
Above quoted material is from the Science of Self Realization
A Vaisnava [Follower of Vishnu or Krishna] is unhappy to see the suffering of others. Therefore, Lord Jesus Christ agreed to be crucified--to free others from their suffering. But his followers are so unfaithful that they have decided, "Let Christ suffer for us, and we'll go on committing sin." They love Christ so much that they think, "My dear Christ, we are very weak. We cannot give up our sinful activities. So you please suffer for us." Jesus Christ taught, "Thou shalt not kill." But his followers have now decided, "Let us kill anyway," and they open big, modern, scientific slaughterhouses. "If there is any sin, Christ will suffer for us." This is a most abominable conclusion.
Christ can take the sufferings for the previous sins of his devotees. But first they have to be sane: "Why should I put Jesus Christ into suffering for my sins? Let me stop my sinful activities."
Suppose a man--the favorite son of his father--commits a murder.
And suppose he thinks, "If there is any punishmentcoming, my father can suffer for me." Will the law allow it? When the murderer is arrested and says, "No, no. You can release me and arrest my father; I am his pet son," will the police officials comply with that fool's request? He committed the murder, but he thinks his father should suffer the punishment! Is that a sane proposal? "No. You have committed the murder; you must be hanged." Similarly, when you commit sinful activities, you must suffer--not Jesus Christ. This is God's law.
Jesus Christ was such a great personality--the son of God, the representative of God. He had no fault. Still, he was crucified. He wanted to deliver God consciousness, but in return they crucified him-- they were so thankless. They could not appreciate his preaching. But we appreciate him and give him all honor as the representative of God.
Of course, the message that Christ preached was just according to his particular time, place, and country, and just suited for a particular group of people. But certainly he is the representative of God. Therefore we adore Lord Jesus Christ and offer our obeisances to him. Once, in Melbourne, a group of Christian ministers came to visit me. They asked, "What is your idea of Jesus Christ?" I told them, "He is our guru. He is preaching God consciousness, so he is our spiritual master." The ministers very much appreciated that.
Actually, anyone who is preaching God's glories must be accepted as a guru. Jesus Christ is one such great personality. We should not think of him as an ordinary human being. The scriptures say that anyone who considers the spiritual master to be an ordinary man has a hellish mentality. If Jesus Christ were an ordinary man, then he could not have delivered God consciousness.
Srila Prabhupada: Humility means intelligence. The humble and meek own the kingdom of God. This is stated in the Bible, is it not? But the philosophy of the rascals is that everyone is God, and today this idea has become popular. Therefore no one is humble and meek. If everyone thinks that he is God, why should he be humble and meek? Therefore I teach my disciples how to become humble and meek. They always offer their respectful obeisances in the temple and to the spiritual master, and in this way they make advancement. The qualities of humbleness and meekness lead very quickly to spiritual realization. In the Vedic scriptures it is said, "To those who have firm faith in God and the spiritual master, who is His representative, the meaning of the Vedic scriptures is revealed."
Father Emmanuel: But shouldn't this humility be offered to everyone else, also?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, but there are two kinds of respect: special and ordinary. Sri Krsna Caitanya taught that we shouldn't expect honor for ourselves, but should always respect everyone else, even if he is disrespectful to us. But special respect should be given to God and His pure devotee.
Father Emmanuel: Yes, I agree.
Srila Prabhupada: I think the Christian priests should cooperate with the Krsna consciousness movement. They should chant the name Christ or Christos and should stop condoning the slaughter of animals. This program follows the teachings of the Bible; it is not my philosophy. Please act accordingly and you will see how the world situation will change.
Father Emmanuel: I thank you very much.
Srila Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
Jesus Christ Was a Guru
The spiritual leader of the Hare Krsna movement here recognizes Lord Jesus Christ as "the son of God, the representative of God... our guru... our spiritual master," yet he has some sharp words for those who currently claim to be Christ's followers...
The Srimad-Bhagavatam states that any bona fide preacher of God consciousness must have the qualities of titiksa (tolerance) and karuna (compassion). In the character of Lord Jesus Christ we find both these qualities. He was so tolerant that even while he was being crucified, he didn't condemn anyone. And he was so compassionate that he prayed to God to forgive the very persons who were trying to kill him. (Of course, they could not actually kill him. But they were thinking that he could be killed, so they were committing a great offense.) As Christ was being crucified he prayed, "Father, forgive them. They know not what they are doing."
A preacher of God consciousness is a friend to all living beings.
Lord Jesus Christ exemplified this by teaching, "Thou shalt not kill." But the Christians like to misinterpret this instruction. They think the animals have no soul, and therefore they think they can freely kill billions of innocent animals in the slaughterhouses. So although there are many persons who profess to be Christians, it would be very difficult to find one who strictly follows the instructions of Lord Jesus Christ.
