START A PETITION 27,000,000 members: the world's largest community for good
START A PETITION
x
Group Discussions
Terminology
2 years ago

Conyers has lost his damn mind.

They are most certainly illegal aliens if they snuck across the border.

Stop cowtowing to these whiny organizations.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2013/feb/5/top-democrat-warns-against-using-term-illegal-immi/

Opening the first immigration hearing of the new Congress, the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee warned his colleagues not to use the term "illegal immigrant" as the debate goes on.

"I hope no one uses the term illegal immigrants here today. Our citizens are not — the people in this country are not illegal. They are are out of status. They are new Americans that are immigrants," said Rep. John Conyers Jr., Michigan Democrat.

As Congress begins the immigration debate, both sides are preparing for an emotionally charged fight, and language will be one of the battlegrounds.

Many immigrant-rights advocates object to the terms "illegal" and "alien," saying that people cannot be deemed illegal, and that the word "alien" makes them sound inhuman. They argue the better terms are "undocumented migrants."

Many newspapers, including The Washington Times, use the phrase "illegal immigrant," deeming it the most accurate description.

But defenders of the term "alien" argue that an immigrant is someone who arrived here legally, while an alien is any foreigner — therefore an "illegal alien" is the proper description for those who are here outside of the law.


2 years ago

They are are out of status.

"undocumented migrants."




Maybe we should rename it Citizen Disturbance

I wonder how much time will be wasted on the name debate.  Stupid...



This post was modified from its original form on 05 Feb, 12:49
2 years ago

Don't know but they are trying to use terminology hoping people will forget that they are illegally residing in this country. It's pure propoganda...

2 years ago


It's spelled "kowtowing."
 

2 years ago


Then again, what is "illegal"? Illegal according to whom?
 

2 years ago

Well, they either entered the country in an illegal/unauthorized fashion or stayed past their allotted time in an illegal/unauthorized manner. 

There are ways to obtain legal citizenship and I know it is not an easy road.  If you don't take the right road though, you are not in the country legally.

I have to admit though, the children that get caught up in all of this who grow up basically only knowing America as their country are a different matter to me.  It's a tough one because to grant them citizenship encourages more of same.  To not offer them citizenship is kind of inhumane.  Not an easy fix there.

2 years ago

I agree with you about the children Suzanne.

And what I would really love to see is some jail time and huge fines for those hiring the illegals immigrants.  Do that, and they won't be hired and thus, less of a problem.

2 years ago

Well, I am not a huge fan of those who hire illegals.  Hurts legitimate business, encourages illegal entry into our country.  Hurts the tax base.  Employers and employees not paying payroll taxes.

That is definitely an area to deal with.

2 years ago

what is "illegal"?


Are you channeling Johnnie Cochran?


Illegal according to whom?


Illegal according to the laws of the United states of America. You must cross at a border checkpoint and produce a valid passport. There are a few other ways to legally enter the US but crawling under a fence, swimming across a river, or being smuggled in a vehicle are not included...

2 years ago


And who is the United States to say who or what is illegal? We're all living on the same planet. Why is it "legal" to be in one spot but not another? Sez who? 
 

A different perspective
2 years ago



Native American Shuts Down Anti-Illegal Immigrant Protest: ‘Y’all Are All Illegal!!!’
Feb 5, 2013 214 By Abena Agyeman-Fisher
 

At a Tucson, Ariz., anti-illegal immigrant rally, a group of self-righteous protesters were literally put on mute after a Native American decided to drop some knowledge on who the real “illegals” are.
 

Pushing a toddler in a stroller, a rightfully irritated self-identified Native American began yelling at the group, saying:
 

“Y’all f*cking illegal. You’re all illegal. You’re all illegal!
 

“We didn’t invite none of you here!
 

“We’re the only native Americans here.
 

“That’s right. We’re the only native Americans here. Y’all are all illegal. We didn’t invite none of you!
 

We didn’t invite none of you here. Get on, get on, get on with your bogus arguments.”
 

Visibly shaken, an unfortunate protestor quickly found himself in the cross hairs of the unexpected lesson when the Native American turned his attention toward his diminutive flag and now-increasingly inappropriate sign:
 

“We should have put that sign up when you son of the b*tches came!”
 

“That [the flag] represents blood, that represents blood spilled by Native Americans protecting this land from the invaders. Yeah, that’s right, you don’t want to hear the G*d damn truth! Get on, b*tch! All the Native Americans you killed, you plant your houses here. That’s the truth.”
 

http://newsone.com/2185250/native-american-on-illegal-immigration/
 

2 years ago

Actually, Native Americans are illegal as well then. They did not start here, they migrated here.

But back to reality. It is 2013, we are the United States of America, we have borders, and we laws about crossing those borders.

If you do not come in the right way you are an illegal alien...

2 years ago

And who is the United States to say who or what is illegal? We're all living on the same planet. Why is it "legal" to be in one spot but not another? Sez who?


Really?

Seriously, man? I mean I get it, you are idealistic but dude, hang out in reality with us for a while...

2 years ago

The thing is, if we open the borders to illegals, we run the risk of becoming The United States of Mexico.  Every country in the world has immigration laws.  Why do we ignore ours and continue to prop up the corrupt government of Mexico?  Mexico has an extremely wealthy class.  And many of those wealthy people are in the government. They do NOTHING for the poor in their own country.   There are no economic opportunities and there are precious few educational opportunities.  Apparently, that's the way the corrupt government like to keep things.  They do hand out maps to the poor so they can find their way to the border, though, which is outrageous.  We have plenty of legal disenfranchised people in America who need help.  There are still some Native American tribes out west that state senators will not allocate money for running water to! 

There is also the very real concern that if anyone can come across the border at anytime, then who else is coming over besides starving Mexican immigrants?

That said, I can totally understand and sypathize with the plight of the illegals.  They have nothing in Mexico.  Everyone wants to make a better life for themselves.   That's why they come here.  I think the USA needs to start exerting some pressure on Mexico to stop sitting on its a$$ and start functioning like a government should.  

When the Cuban immigration was in full swing, we were often accepting approximately 3000 Cuban refugees per week!  This went on for a number of years.  It staggers the mind that so many people could exist on that tiny island. How many illegals are we getting every month from Mexico?

And isn't it interesting that while the presidential campaign was going on, NO ONE was coming over the border from Mexico?  Now why do you think that was?  I think the reason that the USA accepts all these illegals is that American based corporations want to hire them under the table because they are willing to work very, very cheaply. That's wrong, too.

2 years ago

When I think of illegals.  I do not exclusively place the problem on Mexico.  They come from everywhere.  Russia, Ukraine, Equador, Uraguay, Ireland.  You name it, it would probably apply. 

In my part of the world, we see all of them.  It is easy to disappear with so many people.


Christian, does Canada let anyone and everyone in?  Just curious.  Do they have open borders? 

2 years ago

Yeah, all of the illegals I have actually met, they were all from ireland.

2 years ago

I have never met anyone who I knew for a fact was here illegally.

I think it is kind of along the lines of a don't ask, don't tell policy.



This post was modified from its original form on 06 Feb, 6:58
2 years ago



Suzanne, if you checked a map, you would see that you live only a few inches away from Canada. How you could go your entire life without knowing anything about it is beyond me.

I'll let you figure out the answer to your question yourself.



 



This post was modified from its original form on 06 Feb, 7:43
2 years ago

Christian, you truly are a fool.  I checked the regulations on my own because I knew you being you would never answer but only insult.  Why would I know the regulations for Canada?  Seriously...

So fuk off and have a wonderful day...

2 years ago

I'll let you figure out the answer to your question yourself.


I think it was meant to be rhetorical...

2 years ago

It was...

2 years ago

Need to clarify, I did know regulations exist but as to what they were in detail, I did not know.  I doubt Christian even knows in full detail what they are.

Yet, he'll condemn the US for protecting her borders.   Typical.

2 years ago

You don't need to clarify anything.

He is in an alternate reality where humans are not human. It is a fictional realm that is created by some people as a basis for their criticism of the realities we face right here, right now. It is the out for people who are unwilling to face the true nature of our problems. They will float away and reference a fantasy situation that does not and will never exist.

The buffer world they create is something they think separates themselves from what they truly are. They are consumers and participants in the worlds affairs whether they like it or not. They are the reason forests are being mowed down. They are the reason child sweatshops exist in third world countries. They are the reason we are at war in the middle east. We are all consumers of products that require all of this.

We will always have a social structure and boundaries to protect. We are animals, no different than any other on this planet. We will fight, we will love, we will hate, we will die.

2 years ago

"Suzanne, if you checked a map, you would see that you live only a few inches away from Canada. How you could go your entire life without knowing anything about it is beyond me."

And I bet Christian is an expert on Newark NJ.  And Brick Township.

2 years ago

Well, Nancy, Newark does have certain regulations on entrance

I don't even know why I pay attention any more.  Just me


Buck, Good post.  I especially like the last paragraph.



This post was modified from its original form on 06 Feb, 9:03
2 years ago


There is no reason Suzanne shouldn't know approximately the same about Canada as I do the US. If she doesn't, there's not much I can do about that.

No, Nancy, I know very little about Newark or Brick Township, but then who would, unless they have visited or lived there before. I wouldn't expect you or Suzanne to know anything about Barrie, Ontario or Simcoe County, or any other Canadian municipality other than the large ones.
 
It is my experience that most Americans ask about Canada as if it is some far-off, mystical, fantasy planet, with brilliant questions like "Do they speak English there?" and "Do they celebrate Christmas there?" etc.

At any one given time, in any given hotel, airport, bus station and train station in Canada, you will find hundreds or even thousands of Americans each day, seven days a week, 365 days a year, every year. As well, there are many Americans who live in Canada on a permanent or temporary basis for a variety of reasons. The film industry is huge, with many American productions being filmed in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal, with American producers, executive producers, actors, and directors constantly traveling back and forth between Canada and the US. US politicians, musicians, artists, and professionals of all stripes constantly travelling back and forth between Canada and the US. It seems unlikely that not one single one of them has ever had anything to say about Canada to any of their friends and family upon their return to the US.

Add to that the explosion of the internet over the last decade or so in which everyone on Earth now has instant access to everyone else, plus almost all of mankind's knowledge gained and recorded throughout all history, it then boggles the mind how most Americans still know nothing about their closest neighbours who are physically part of the same land mass.
 

2 years ago


Anyway, yeah, you guys have a pretty big immigration problem, but then that could be solved by reforming the brutal requirements, expenses and waiting periods for becoming citizens. I checked it out a few times, and it is beyond belief how difficult it is. This is most likely the reason why people say fuk it and sneak in.
 

2 years ago

Christian, that is such a rambling load of poor me horseshyte.  Too funny!!!!

Honestly, you are starting to make no sense at all.

I will admit that clearly I didn't know if you spoke French, you are a preferred immigrant  especially to certain provences.  Silly me

2 years ago


I will say right off that there should be some kind of language requirement, if there isn't already. I simply can't believe how many workers in the US can't speak English. I was at an airport where I stopped a cleaning lady with a security badge on and asked her where the bathrooms were. She couldn't understand a word I said as she spoke no English. If she couldn't speak English, how the hell did she get a job at an airport which requires a high security clearance?

WTF?
 

2 years ago

Maybe she just didn't want to answer yet another tourist looking for bathrooms where signs are  usually displayed to show location. 

2 years ago


There were no signs, hence my question. And she seemed more helpful when I switched to bad Spanish.
 

2 years ago

Christian, just so noone catches you on political correctness.  I believe cleaning lady is now considered a custodial engineer or something along those lines.  Seriously


Cleaning lady = Old way of thinking...


2 years ago

Maybe she had her fun with you and took pity.

2 years ago


Kind of like how you guys keep calling SNAP benefits "food stamps"?
 

2 years ago

or the Affordable Care Act being "Obamacare"?

I suppose it really does come down to what is...is



This post was modified from its original form on 06 Feb, 10:11
2 years ago

Yes, you need a passport to legally enter Canada (post 9/11), although I've accidentally entered illegally on several occasions via waterways while out fishing.

2 years ago


Post 2009, to be exact.
 

2 years ago

but then that could be solved by reforming the brutal requirements, expenses and waiting periods for becoming citizens.


There is the real issue that you are leaving out.

That is the question of why so many people feel the need to leave Mexico. It is not our fault. They have a very corrupt situation down and they cannot control their criminal drug lords. You can getinto all kinds of conspiracy about this and that but in the end their leadership is extremely corrupt and they do not take care of their people.

You do not see Americans running away en masse to Canada. There is a reason. We are doing well here compared to most countries in the world. We have opportunity and freedom to take advantage of. It is the same with Canada. Everyone has opportunity there so there is no need to leave.

So there is a real reason and the reason peiople like to use to portray this situation as America's fault.

A lot of people like to blame us for everything that happens on this planet...

2 years ago

"I wouldn't expect you or Suzanne to know anything about Barrie, Ontario or Simcoe County, or any other Canadian municipality other than the large ones."

Have relatives in Barrie, BTW.  Also Collingwood, Creemore, Bracebridge and Dorset.  Many in Toronto and Missisaugua.  Cornwall and Ottawa (Nepean) as well.  My ancetstors were featured in a Biography of the Muskoka region.

2 years ago

Simcoe county? I wonder if it has any relation to the Simcoe Hop...?

2 years ago

"I believe cleaning lady is now considered a custodial engineer or something along those lines.  Seriously "

Or is she a custodial engineeress?

2 years ago


Are you talking about the variety of hop flower? Unlikely, as anything in Canada called "Simcoe" would have been named after John Graves Simcoe, the first Lieutenant Governor of what was then known as "Upper Canada" which is now just part of the province of Ontario.
 

2 years ago

Yea

2 years ago


There are tons of places named after Simcoe. There's a Simcoe Street in downtown Toronto (and probably other cities and towns in Ontario), a Lake Simcoe, Simcoe County, etc.
 

2 years ago


the_more_you_know2.jpg

2 years ago


Feels like an episode of Schoolhouse Rock in here today.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyeJ55o3El0
 

2 years ago

Ah...memories

2 years ago

And mine (different show)

2 years ago

There is just a popular hop for brewing called the Simcoe. Just curious if it is of any relation...

2 years ago


Bob Dorough, who wrote Conjunction Junction, appeared in Toronto back in 2008, so I went to see him play. He did not sing on the original tune (that was Jack Sheldon and Terry Morel), but he sang it at this show:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw5dRWN7DQg

Sorry about the crappy quality. I used my point and shoot camera for that.

 



This post was modified from its original form on 06 Feb, 12:19
2 years ago

Hey Buck,  I am guessing and could be wrong that the name for the hop and the various Simcoe's of Canada might go back to England.  Just a guess.  I did recognize it as a hop variety though the hope could also be of Canadian origin.  One of the major hops capitals in North America was at one point the FingerLakes region of NY.  I am guessiing similar enough climate similarity to Simcoe in Canada. 

2 years ago

True...

2 years ago

I enjoyed that Christian, thanks.  Now I keep singing the damn song.   

2 years ago

I use Cascade hops myself.

2 years ago


The internets say that the Simcoe Hop was invented in 2000 by Yakima Chief Ranches in Yakima Valley, Washington.
 

2 years ago


the_more_you_know2.jpg

2 years ago

The best beers I have had in a while all used the Citra hop. Second Street Brewery down the road from my place made a pretty damn good citra IPA...

2 years ago

I'm hoppy for you...

2 years ago

Cascade does have citrus notes.  As does Liberty.  Both are North American.

 But not made of rabbits either Ms. Suanne Hoppy!

2 years ago

So it has been over a year since the pub down the road had the Citra. I go in last night to hang out for a bit and they Citra Pale Ale on tap. Crazy...

2 years ago

Yeah, hops are seasonal I guess.  Do they make any fresh-hopped beer?  Good Stuf.  We had "Harvest Ale" at our local brew pub that was with their own locally-grown fresh hops. 

2 years ago

I can believe (well, OK, I am a lousy typist so YES I can) that I called you Suanne.  KInd of like that character from Mary Tyler Moore. 

2 years ago

Oh Ted....

2 years ago

And look what I found- this video covers it all!

(OK- almost!)

2 years ago

   I love Betty White...

This thread is archived. To reply to it you must re-activate it.