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This is one of the reasons Unions bother me...
2 years ago

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/article/20130226/NJNEWS/302260024/Union-rats-protest-Somerville-construction-project


Keple said that the area-standard wage and benefits for a skilled journeyman carpenter should be worth $65 an hour, including health benefits and retirement benefits, which is the prevailing wage for public projects in Somerset County. That amount includes $41.49 an hour in wages and $23.24 in benefits.

The average hourly wage for a carpenter in Central Jersey is about $23.50, according to a wage survey compiled last July by the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development.



Go to link for rest of story...

2 years ago

These guys are just trying to keep non-union carpenters, in this case, from having the ability to work.  If they are willing to work for that amount.  Then they are and should be able to.

The Unions just want all the work and all the power to control said work.

2 years ago


But then again, people who will work for much smaller amounts will set the prices people are willing to pay, and that is always much less than people can afford to live on. This is why I can't make a living on my photography. Too many photographers these days give their stuff up for free or almost no money just for a photo credit or the honour of appearing in print. Meanwhile, us professionals take the brunt of that, and can't make a living anymore.

Everytime I do an assignment at a popular nightclub or a simliar place, I ask the official nightclub photographer what they are getting paid, and they always say that they are working for free just to get their foot in the door. So what is now happening is that clubs know they can get these good photographers to work for free in exchange for the "glory" of having their work show up on a website or news feed, and then when those photographers realise after a month or so that they can't pay their rent or other bills or upgrade their equipment, or even eat on pure glory alone, they move on to something else and then the clubs just find other mooks who are willing to work for free. The clubs then get an endless supply of content for their websites without ever having to pay for it, the people they hired to do all that work spent many hours in time and effort for nothing, and the professionals get screwed in the long run because no one wants to pay anymore like they used to.

Skilled labour is worth money. When people sell themselves short, they drag others down with them. Yes unions can be greedy pigs (believe me, I know), but without them, no one would ever get paid properly for their hard work. The question isn't "Why are those union guys getting paid more than me?" it's "Why aren't I getting paid as much as the union guys?"
 

2 years ago



By the way, I'm not defending the deplorable actions some unions take. I am well aware of how nasty and shiftless they can get, and I'm assuming New Jersey unions are quite shiftless, greedy and douchebaggy, particularly because of mafia infiltration, etc. I know all about that.

2 years ago


By the way, I'm not defending the deplorable actions some unions take. I am well aware of how nasty and shiftless they can get, and I'm assuming New Jersey unions are quite shiftless, greedy and douchebaggy, particularly because of mafia infiltration, etc. I know all about that.

 

2 years ago


Why is there a double post? Fukking technical glitches ...
 

2 years ago


Buck, since you're the only active host here (who knows what the hell ever happened to Barb, George and the caurdli Maui), feel free to delete that duplicate post.
 

2 years ago

I understand where you are coming from.  But it is not like anyone is working for free in this situation or any of the other situations I have come across with regard to New Jersey and union monopoly on certain work and the setting of wages.   This $65 per hour wage honestly is on a lower scale than many.  You should see what the utility workers earn.  No wonder our bills are so high and the infrastructure is never worked on.  No wonder any work that gets done for the government costs so much more than it should.  Costing the taxpayers greatly.

Also, they prevent smaller companies from getting or even having the ability to bid on some work.  That prevailing wage stands for any type of state, county, city work.  A small business can not afford to pay a worker $520 per day (8 hr. day) worth of salary and benefits.  On top of that, for the owner  of the business you then need to add their share 8% of that wage toward social security and unemployment (payroll taxes) to the feds and state government.  On top of that, they have the insurances that need to be paid which are based partiallly on salaries such as disability insurance, just as an example. 

It is an unfair playing field.

So while that amount already is huge to pay out, most employees do not realize the other costs employers incur on top of that for each employee.  Out of sight, out of mind.

I happen to know one of these carpenters.  He used to have his own small business but went under about 4 years ago.  Trust me, he is happy for the work.  It is hard to get in the union, it shuts out people who do this for a living and need to work.

It stymies private contractors ability for growth and ability to survive.

Our guys for our business start out at a minimum of $20.00 per hour.  That is for unskilled labor.  Clean up guys.  The amount does go up based on skill level.  We also used to provide 100% health insurance for all.  We stopped doing that obviously for them and for us.

I do have to say I love seeing those rats with their big red eyes set up.  I used to beep for them in support, now I just drive by and shake my head.



This post was modified from its original form on 27 Feb, 5:23
2 years ago

Read up on the culinary union and the UFC. They do want to control as much as they can and they are willing to sacrifice anyone else getting work to do it.

http://www.chicagonow.com/mma-disputed/2012/02/culinary-union-and-the-ufc-dont-mix/

2 years ago

I had to read that twice because it is a very odd mixture there.  A  troublesome mixture.



This post was modified from its original form on 27 Feb, 8:45
2 years ago

"This $65 per hour wage honestly is on a lower scale than many.  You should see what the utility workers earn.  No wonder our bills are so high and the infrastructure is never worked on.  No wonder any work that gets done for the government costs so much more than it should.  Costing the taxpayers greatly."

This reminds me of growing up in NY state.  ROad construction was always 10 am- 3 pm.  Never after hours,  Never first thing (to work traffic) or last thing( home from work traffic), never overnight, never on weekends.  They probably did get paid for 8 hours and worked really five.  Not good to get the work done.

Then I moved to CT and wow was that different.  WOrk rarely done during the day.  Often overnight.  Get home before 8 pm or you might get stuck. 

The power of unions I guess.  Though I do understand not working during traffic hour.

2 years ago

I read your article Buck and I just don't know enough about what this is about.  What is the UFC? 

2 years ago

UFC is an MMA promotion.

Ultimate Fighting Championship.

Basically they can't go to NY because of the Culinary union. The owners of UFC also own some casinos that are not unionized. So in order for the owners to do a UFC in NY they would have to let the Vegas culinary union in to their casinos and into the UFC.

The unions are paying off officials to impede them getting approval to put on a UFC at the Garden.

If they broke down, which they will not, two things would happen after the culinary union moved in:

  1. The food would get worse
  2. The service would get worse

...

2 years ago


Ultimate Fighting Championship.
 

2 years ago


Or whatever Buck said.
 

2 years ago

"Basically they can't go to NY because of the Culinary union. The owners of UFC also own some casinos that are not unionized. So in order for the owners to do a UFC in NY they would have to let the Vegas culinary union in to their casinos and into the UFC. "

What's that saying...What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas?

Not sure I understand why unions in Las Vegas would have anything to do with unions in NY.  Culinary?  Meaning restaurant kitchens? 

What does UFC have to do with this other than wanting to be at venues where there is culinary staff? Does the UFC itself have people that could be part of the culinary union?

2 years ago


When film crews in Toronto film in union hotels, they can't use their regular caterers because the hotel union has a rule that says no outside catering is allowed because they have their own union caterers, so in those cases, the film production gets their catered lunch from the hotel.

 

2 years ago

I think I hear a BINGO....


If it ain't our guys doing the work and operating under our rules it ain't gonna be your guys either. 

Thugs...



This post was modified from its original form on 27 Feb, 18:52
2 years ago


Yeah, but the hotel example is understandable. You don't bring your own chef with you to a restaurant, you use the chef that's already there.
 

2 years ago


Again, not all unions act like thugs. I'm sure the ones in New York and New Jersey do. They have a long history of thuggism, and most people worldwide know that.

Unions do some great things, and then they do some crappy things. They have their pros, they have their cons. There are some intrnisic flaws in the way unions choose to operate sometimes. One of my biggest beefs is the way incompetent, unqualified, lazy-ass morons are almost impossible to get rid of. No idea why they are always protected forever when they are members of a union, but there you have it. In the end, though, you have a lot to thank unions for: Paid holidays, sick leave, proper work breaks, overtime, etc.
 

I have to concur with Christan's last post ...
2 years ago

Like almost exactly word for word in the second paragraph. 

But the first paragraph cracked me up. 

It's Uno!
2 years ago


Which one or two words did you not concur with? I'll change them to the words you prefer.


 

This ...
2 years ago

poor spelling: intrnisic

And: beefs
2 years ago

I believe that should be "beeves" ...

2 years ago



 

2 years ago


"Intrnisic" is the French spelling?  

2 years ago

"If it ain't our guys doing the work and operating under our rules it ain't gonna be your guys either.  "

I understand that and I understand Christians point about you wouldn't bring in your own chef to a restaurant (which doesn't neccessarily have anything to do with unions)

But does the UFC wander around with its own caterers?

2 years ago

Nancy, I get that too.  Everything within reason.  Some are valid and some are not.

The orginal story I posted above falls into the not and the hotel catering issue Christian mentions is valid.  I would imagine contracts exist with the hotel and the caterers and their staff.  To work independently of a union as a carpenter does not mean you should not be allowed to work.

Does that make sense? 

2 years ago

" To work independently of a union as a carpenter does not mean you should not be allowed to work."

  

That part I completely got.  I am not completely understanding the UFC thing.

  

I have been aware of unions in factories since I was a member of one while in college.  I worked for GTE and made televisions.  NY at the time was what they called a "closed shop" state.  If you had the job, you joined the union.  I had no problem with that.

 

I was eligible for a union when I was at the EPA.  Surprised the heck of out of me.  There, however, you had full benefits with or without paying dues.  I have an issue with that.  I can't see why you should get those benefits unless you pay dues.

 

In any case, in both cases, the union came with the job.  Not the other way around.  I had heard more recently of this carpenter thing.  Is that true also for electricans and plumbers?  There is a union that exists outside of a job and you don't get the job without being a member?  That is a bit much. 



This post was modified from its original form on 28 Feb, 15:06



This post was modified from its original form on 28 Feb, 15:06
2 years ago

Electricians, Plumbers, Utilities, Road Contractors, Construction

Nancy, you name it they are there...  They also can be pretty brutal

That goes for the public sector unions in NJ as well.  I have dealt with them and been shouted down by them in public forums, such as our school.  I let them speak, I have the same right to speak.  They are disresptful to say the least.  It is intimidating to be standing alone and having a room packed with union members screaming at you to sit down and shut up.  Luckily, or stupidly...I don't care!

Although, I will say one time in particular it left me shaking literally.  I stood my ground, said what I needed to and then sat back down among them until the meeting was over.  It was upsetting, didn't sleep good that night.  One of those union heads who came from out of our area, because they packed and stacked that room, actually came up to me and said I had a good presentation.  To bad he didn't tell his members to behave.



This post was modified from its original form on 28 Feb, 15:15
2 years ago

You know I was just thinking and it is kind of funny and sad.  Next time you have something you need repaired or an improvement on your home is to be done.  When you look at the proposal and sqwauk (sp) at the price.  Thank a union for the labor included in that price...

And if you get a lower price, check the contractor for hiring illegals.

Just a thought...

2 years ago

Not sure I understand why unions in Las Vegas would have anything to do with unions in NY.  


Because their parent company is Unite Here which is the group lobbying against MMA in NY. LV Culinary Union has been trying for years to break into the casinos and hotels owned by the Fertitta's. NV is a right to work state and they are trying to extort their way in.


Culinary?  Meaning restaurant kitchens?


Yep...

Never heard of them so I looked ...
2 years ago

http://www.unitehere.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNITE_HERE



I have to say they have alot of locals in my area

2 years ago

"You know I was just thinking and it is kind of funny and sad.  Next time you have something you need repaired or an improvement on your home is to be done.  When you look at the proposal and sqwauk (sp) at the price.  Thank a union for the labor included in that price...

And if you get a lower price, check the contractor for hiring illegals.

Just a thought..."

We have had a plumber out a couple times for minor issues.  I was quoted a minimum half hour rate for the job plus extra if it went over.  It was based on time.  There is a company and they employ licensed plumbers.  I have no idea if they are union or not.  Overall it was about 85$ per hour but I did get charged less because it took less time.

Same when I had an electrician once.  He was licensed and had his own business.  He billed me for half an hour of work even though it took 35 minutes.  I think less than 50$ that time. 

I am no longer living in NY, for sure.

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