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Why Japanese Whaling is ILLEGAL
4 years ago

Minke whales are not an ESA-listed species, meaning they are not classified as endangered or threatened. However, minke whales are protected under the marine mammal protection act.

The Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA) is the main regulatory vehicle that protects marine mammal species and their habitats in an effort to main sustainable populations. In doing so, the statute outlines prohibitions, required permits, criminal and civil penalties, and international aspects in addressing marine mammals.

 

The MMPA defines "take" as “the act of hunting, killing, capture, and/or harassment of any marine mammal; or, the attempt at such.

 

Violation of the Act, or a permit or regulation issued under it, is subject to a civil penalty of up to $10,000 per violation. Each unlawful taking or importation is a separate offense. Knowing violation of the Act, or a permit or regulation issued under it, is subject to a criminal penalty of up to $20,000 per violation or imprisonment for one year, or both. (The $20,000 maximum fine stated in the Act and repeated in this summary is modified by the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984, as amended by the Criminal Fine Improvements Act of 1987.

4 years ago
Whaling in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary is ILLEGAL
Harpoon Vessel - Yushin MaruNow that there can finally be no question about the fact that the actions of the Japanese whaling fleet in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary. The Australian Federal Courts have ruled that the Japanese whaling company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha is breaking the law by whaling in Australian territory.
The Japanese whaling company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha has a permit from the Japanese government to kill up to 935 minke whales and 50 fin whales in Antarctica this summer. Based on records of previous hunts, some 90 percent of these whales will be killed in the Australian Whale Sanctuary, the Humane Society said.
So what precisley are the Japanese guilty of?
The company's offenses are having "killed, injured, taken and interfered with Antarctic minke whales (Balaenoptera bonaerensis) and fin whales (Balaenoptera physalus) and injured, taken and interfered with humpback whales (Megaptera novaeangliae) in the Australian Whale Sanctuary..."
This landmark ruling proves without a doubt that the Japanese are committing an offence by continuing to operate in the whale sanctuary. Wriggle as they must, the Japanese argue that they do no recognise the sovereignty of the Antarctic waters, the fact remains they have been found guilty in a court of law.

4 years ago
Tell Obama to Keep His Promise About Whaling

 

PETITION`

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/8/tell-obama-to-keep-his-promise-about-whaling/

                             Tell Obama to Keep His Promise About Whaling

Right now the Japanese whaling fleet is in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary hunting whales.This is the fourth time the Japanese have gone to the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary since President Obama made the statement that,

"As president, I will ensure that the U.S. provides leadership in enforcing international wildlife protection agreements, including strengthening the international moratorium on commercial whaling. Allowing Japan to continue commercial whaling is unacceptable."

Let's send this petition to President Obama to remind him of his own words. Please also help bring this issue into the public eye by writing a letter to the editor to your local newspaper. Can you write a letter today? Just click here to get started:
http://us.greenpeace.org/site/LteUser?lte_id=1001

President Barack Obama
The White House

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW

Washington, DC 20500
comments (202) 456-1111
switchboard (202) 456-1414
fax (202) 456-2461
E-mail http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

 

4 years ago

thanks

4 years ago

THANKS!

4 years ago

Japan has now over 5600 tons of frozen whale meat this year that has been stockpiled in comparison to 1800 tons in 1999.

 

http://www.thewhalepeople.com/2010/12/japans-uncovered-whaling-truths/

4 years ago

Noted and thank you for the post.

4 years ago

x

4 years ago

signed thanks

4 years ago

It is not illegal, which is why no-one can takle the Japs to court over it.

 

Do you think that after all this commotion, they simply forgot to take legal action?

 

Sure, if the Japs hunted the whales in Colorado, that would be illegal. I hate to break it to you, but America does not rule the world.

4 years ago

lol... stupid azz... I got NEWS FOR YOU living in Australia!

 

 

The Australian Federal Courts have ruled that the Japanese whaling company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha is breaking the law by whaling in Australian territory

4 years ago

Now that there can finally be no question about the fact that the actions of the Japanese whaling fleet in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary. The Australian Federal Courts have ruled that the Japanese whaling company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha is breaking the law by whaling in Australian territory.

The Japanese whaling company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha has a permit from the Japanese government to kill up to 935 minke whales and 50 fin whales in Antarctica this summer. Based on records of previous hunts, some 90 percent of these whales will be killed in the Australian Whale Sanctuary, the Humane Society said.

So what precisley are the Japanese guilty of?

The company's offenses are having "killed, injured, taken and interfered with Antarctic minke whales (Balaenoptera bonaerensis) and fin whales (Balaenoptera physalus) and injured, taken and interfered with humpback whales (Megaptera novaeangliae) in the Australian Whale Sanctuary..."
This landmark ruling proves without a doubt that the Japanese are committing an offence by continuing to operate in the whale sanctuary. Wriggle as they must, the Japanese argue that they do no recognise the sovereignty of the Antarctic waters, the fact remains they have been found guilty in a court of law.


Whilst Sea Shepherd are often pilloried for their direct action in regard to defending whales this ruling goes to demonstrate that their enforcement of the law can no longer be questioned. Sea Shepherd's harassment and interference of the Japanese whaling fleets contempt of Australian authority is the only act of law enforcement within the whale sanctuary.

4 years ago

http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw_united_states/join_campaigns/whales/index.php

 

According to three separate panels of independent, international legal experts (commissioned by IFAW), Japan’s whaling program breaches numerous international laws and treaties including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the Antarctic Treaty System, the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species CITES and the International Convention on the Regulation of Whaling.

4 years ago

The Australian Federal Courts have ruled that the Japanese whaling company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha is breaking the law by whaling in Australian territory

 

Bigger type does not make you correct. Again, the Japs are not whaling in Canberra. Australia does not rule the world either.

 

If you want legal advice, ask a lawyer, not a hippy with an agenda to mislead.

4 years ago

You are saying they were never found guilty! Im telling you they were- its no "HIPPIE AGENDA"

 

you have a KILL EVERYTHING FOR PROFIT AGENDA!

 

 

THEY ARE WHALING IN A SANTUARY AND IT IS ILLEGAL

4 years ago

and what with you and the ethnic slurs, racist?

 

To call a Japanese person a "JAP" is NO different than calling a black person a   " n i g g e r" !!!

 

 

4 years ago

But? Not that you would care about THAT anymore than you would care about sticking a harpoon in a whales head!

 

It only matters to you if it envolves a profit... nevermind ethical.

4 years ago

signed.

4 years ago

you have a KILL EVERYTHING FOR PROFIT AGENDA!

No I don't, and even if I did it would not make me wrong. Tell me Nyack, how helpful dop you think it is to mislead people regarding the law?

4 years ago

Freediver C you are one of those idiot Trolls I deal with everyday, it seems to be a full time job! And why do you call them Japs?
Sure I'm against them killing whales, that goes without saying, but it is very rude to call them Japs! I'm of Native American Decent [Cherokee Indian] & a grandson half black & a granddaughter half asian & a granddaughter half mexican.
And it does make you wrong to kill everything for profit! Mankind is killing off everything, everywhere & sooner or later we are next.
We all should care! I am not a vegan eather, but I am still in the right & a decent person who is not greedy. I only want to eat when I'm hungry, & feed my family & give the rest to the needy people, ie: the Native American Indian people who got their land taken from them.
They have respect for Earth Mother and all animals & only took what they needed & utilized the whole animal and shared with all!
I think you are a Troll of a subhuman being who has no respect for our planet and all other living beings. Do you understand we are killing off ourselves as well?

4 years ago

Let me sum this up, calling people Japs, is like the N-WORD! And I have a multie mixed family, and I am sticking up for the animals/voiceless against TROLLS like you! You "PEOPLE" seem to come out of the cracks of the internet like cock roaches!!!!!!!!!
Karma, I am a firm believer in Karma. What you do to others will come back around to you, so you must deside should you do good or bad? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

4 years ago

thanks

4 years ago

If I am "misleading" people, freediver, than so is the BBC (British Broadcast Corperation)

 

Japan whaling illegal, court says
An Australian court has ruled that the activities of the Japanese whaling fleet are illegal and ordered it to halt its operations.

The Federal Court said Japan had broken domestic law by killing whales in Australian waters off Antarctica.

It is not clear what effect the ruling will have, as Japan does not recognise Australia's Antarctic claim.

But it is likely to raise tensions between the two nations, which are far apart on the issue of whaling.

The Japanese fleet plans to kill about 900 minke whales and 50 fin whales by mid-April as part of what it describes as a scientific research programme.

But Australia and other nations say the research goals could be achieved using non-lethal methods and call the programme a front for commercial whaling.

The case, initially brought in 2004 by the Humane Society against ship operator Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha, was delayed for several years because of fears it could cause a diplomatic row.

Whale sanctuary

 

At the court in Sydney, Justice James Allsop ruled that the fleet had broken Australia's Environment Protection Act and issued an injunction ordering it to stop whaling.

"The court orders that the respondent be restrained from killing, injuring, taking or interfering with any Antarctic minke whale, fin whale or humpback whale in the Australian whale sanctuary," he said in his ruling.

The judgement, however, is unlikely to end the whaling. Japan does not recognise Australia's Antarctic claim or its declaration of a whale sanctuary in the area.

Tokyo has said in the past that it will ignore any injunction resulting from the case.

The court also has no jurisdiction outside Australia and Justice Allsop said it was unlikely that his ruling could be enforced.

Australia's Environment Minister Peter Garrett said that he was still considering the decision, but emphasised that surveillance operations were in place.

An Australian patrol ship and an aircraft have already been sent south to assemble photographic and video material of the fleet for a possible legal challenge in international courts.

Ships from environmental group Greenpeace and the more radical Sea Shepherd are also trailing the fleet in a bid to disrupt the hunt.

They say they have forced the main factory ship, the Nisshin Maru, out of the whaling zone, temporarily preventing the fleet from hunting.

Japanese whaling officials have condemned the two groups, blaming them for past collisions and describing their activities as illegal harassment.

 


4 years ago

and what with you and the ethnic slurs, racist?

 

To call a Japanese person a "JAP" is NO different than calling a black person a   " n i g g e r" !!!

 

4 years ago

If I am "misleading" people, freediver, than so is the BBC (British Broadcast Corperation)

No they are not. They reported on it objectively and explained that it is meaningless. The Japs are not bound by Australian law and are not whaling in Australian waters:

 

The Federal Court said Japan had broken domestic law by killing whales in Australian waters off Antarctica.

It is not clear what effect the ruling will have, as Japan does not recognise Australia's Antarctic claim.

4 years ago

and what with you and the ethnic slurs, racist?

 

To call a Japanese person a "JAP" is NO different than calling a black person a   " n i g g e r" !!!

4 years ago

There is am INTERNATIONAL BAN on whaling. Except in cases of "Scientific Research". GREENPEACE of Japan has already proved that that whale meat is NOT going into "scientific research" but into the food industry (and 70% of japanese people do not eat whale meat, or support whaling.) Which means- they are violating INTERNATIONAL laws.

4 years ago

The Japanese invented the concept of 'scientific' whaling in 1987 as a way round the moratorium on commercial whaling instituted by the the International Whaling Commission (IWC). Their research is not really research. It is an excuse for supplying whale meat on the Japanese market, though that market is dying.

The science they perform consists of DNA sampling, physical measurements such as earbone size, age ID, and most importantly, the contents in the digestive tract.

The data on what the whales eat is then perverted to help their propaganda campaign, which argues that whales eat too much commercially important fish, and that we should cull the population to save our fisheries. They selectively release data on certain species, while ignoring data on others, especially baleen species.

Iceland is just following Japan's example of taking advantage of IWC loopholes, as an excuse to resume commercial hunts.

Australia and many other countries use non-lethal data collection techniques, such as "knicking" the skin of a whale for biopsy samples to determine DNA and toxin levels. Analysis of faeces is the most accurate way of determining the animals' diet.

Also, tagging whales with data sensors and tracking their movements tell us much more about their behavior and life patterns than any forensic data could provide.

Killing 38 Minke whales this year is the thin edge of the wedge. Iceland intends to catch 500 whales over the next two years (200 Minke whales, 200 Fin whales and 100 Sei whales).Clearly there can be no 'scientific' justification for this level of whaling - the Government of Iceland is once again trying to resume commercial whaling via the back door, with an eye on the lucrative Japanese export market.

Don't be fooled by the terminology. It is not research, it is commercial whaling. Nobody needs 500 whales, most from the same species (minke), and from the same feeding ground, to "research" anything of importance.

IWC rejects Iceland's scientific programme

In a strongly worded resolution at this year's IWC, the Commission fired a shot across the bows of Iceland's whaling industry which plans to commence a scientific hunt for export to Japan possibly as early as this summer.

During the debate, members of the Commission restated the concerns of Scientific Committee members who had reviewed Iceland's research proposal, and scientific whaling in general. Thirty nine of the Scientific Committee's national delegates from many different nations had concluded that, not only was Iceland's research proposal poorly contrived and unlikely to yield relevant results, but that it was 'deficient in almost every respect'. Below is a summary of some of their reasons:

1 IWC scientists have already unanimously agreed on the scientific aspect of a management system. The system does not require any of the data provided by Iceland's "research" programmes.


2 Articles 65 and 120 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLO establish that all countries must "cooperate with a view to the conservation of marine mammals and in the case of cetaceans shall in particular work through the appropriate international organisations for their conservation, management and study


3 The management plan agreed by IWC scientists requires only information that can be obtained without killing whales.


4 UNCED said that because of their special status under international law as highly migratory animals and as marine mammals, the management of cetaceans can be more strict than that of other marine species, including a prohibition on their catching. There was no "list of resources open to sustainable use and development" approved at UNCED and there was no "explicit rejection" of whales from this purported list.


5 The Scientific Committee Working Group has also agreed that the data produced by killing whales is "not required for management".


6 Of the 5000 minke whales stomachs so far 'sampled' by Japanese whalers in the Antarctic, every one has contained krill and only krill, a fact that was known long before the 'research' began.

4 years ago

that whale meat is NOT going into "scientific research" but into the food industry

 

You think the meat should be wasted?

4 years ago

To take it out of the oceans is the WASTE.

 

Noone is even eating it, or buying it.

 

They have 5600 TONS of frozen whalemeat. THAT is the "WASTE".

4 years ago

yeah, and to keep it frozen, cost also a lot of energy, which is bad for the global warming

4 years ago

Noone is even eating it, or buying it.

 

Yes they are. I would even give it a go if it were not illegal to import it.

4 years ago

I thought you said it was NOT illegal? lol

4 years ago

know the reason it is illegal to import it?

BECAUSE THERE IS A MORATORIUM ON WHALING,  AND HAS BEEN SINCE 1987!!!!

 

Really absoluting nothing to do with "my hippie agenda" as you claim!

4 years ago

I thought you said it was NOT illegal? lol

 

It is illegal to import it into Australia. It is not illegal for the Japs to hunt in international waters. Do try to keep up.

4 years ago

Well? Ask "the Japs" to sell you some whalemeat, illegally. I hope they soak it in toilet water and spit on it for you to eat, RASIST.

 

I will keep it up. A WHALE SANCTUARY and a WHALING MORITORIUM make whaling illegal.

4 years ago

ask any hunter if it is legal to kill an animal in a sanctuary.

4 years ago

A WHALE SANCTUARY and a WHALING MORITORIUM make whaling illegal.

 

Actually, no it doesn't. The Australian government has no authority to unilaterally declare new laws for international waters. Like I said, Australia does not rule the world.

 

Do you honestly believe the law is against the Japanese? How do you reconcile this absurd belief with reality? Are the actions of Sea Shepherd and Greenpeace based on one big lie that they need to perpetuate in order to justify their actions?

 

http://www.ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/why-allow-whaling.html

 

 

4 years ago

thanks

4 years ago

Yea! You are RIGHT! NOONE "owns" Antartica, but it has been declared a WORLD PARK, and a Sanctuary! Who protects this "World Park"? Volunteers upholding the International Laws!

In 1958 the Antarctica Treaty was signed by eighteen countries, seven of which claimed a territorial stake in the region. The treaty recognised Antarctica as a unique scientific and planetary resource for the whole of mankind and protected it for 30 years. At a meeting of the Antarctica Treaty Nations in 1975, a delegation from New Zealand first put forward the idea that the continent should be given 'World Park' status and be governed by similar legislation that protects many National Parks around the globe.

World Park Antarctica declared!

Gradually more and more of the Treaty signatories were persuaded of the merits of making Antarctica a World Park. In 1991 the members of the Antarctic Treaty agreed to adopt a new Environmental Protocol, including a 50-year minimum prohibition on all mineral exploitation.

 

INTERNATIONAL HISTORY OF ANTARTICA

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/about/history/how-we-saved-antarctica/



This post was modified from its original form on 06 Mar, 7:52
4 years ago

So? We have an International Moratorium on Whaling, A World Park, and a Ocean Sanctuary.

 

4 years ago

Yea! You are RIGHT! NOONE "owns" Antartica, but it has been declared a WORLD PARK, and a Sanctuary!

By the people who don't own it? How would you feel nif I declared New York a sanctuary and said no-one was allowed to live there anymore? All this feel-good mumbo jumbo does not change the fact that you are wrong about the law. It is a sorry reflection on Greenpeace that this forum is being used to spread such misinformation almost unchallenged.

Who protects this "World Park"? Volunteers upholding the International Laws!

You mean vigilantes? People whop don't understand the law but feel the need to enforce it anyway? The Japs are breaking no international laws.

4 years ago

Dont understand the law? I suppose YOU are the only one that has a true understanding of the law, Freediver? Your desire to suck on whale blubber is making you delusional~ hahaha

 

And as far as all this great "harrassment" of Japan you speak of- I guess you are right if think petitioning the President is "harrassment." Here in the United States? It is our 1st Amendment Constitutional Right~

 

The 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees “the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The right of petition means that individuals, acting alone or as part of a group, can freely send written criticisms or complaints to government officials. The right of petition also provides freedom to circulate documents for people to sign in order to demonstrate mass support for complaints against the government.

 

Here’s what he told Greenpeace back in 2008:

 

"As president, I will ensure that the U.S. provides leadership in enforcing international wildlife protection agreements, including strengthening the international moratorium on commercial whaling. Allowing Japan to continue commercial whaling is unacceptable."

 

You mean this petition of "great harrassment"?

https://secure3.convio.net/gpeace/site/Advocacy?pagename=homepage&page=UserAction&id=760&autologin=true

 



This post was modified from its original form on 07 Mar, 6:12
4 years ago

Here is the bottem line. Whaling is illegal except in cases of Scientific Research.

 

Japan is NOT doing "scientific research" they are doing commercial whaling in the whaling industry and have stockpiled 5600 TONS of whalemeat.

 

It is NOT "Scientific Whaling" and therefore, ILLEGAL.

4 years ago

Japan is NOT doing "scientific research"

 

Yes they are.

 

http://www.ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/why-allow-whaling.html

 

Most biologists are loathe to throw out perfectly good meat just because it was acquired in the course of scientific research. This does not make their research invalid. It just means they believe in sustainability.

4 years ago

ITS POACHING!!!!! AND ILLEGAL!!

 

Ill tell you what? If you are so desperate to chew on whale blubber, why dont you ask your own counrty, Australia, to do the whaling for you?

 

They dont... know why? ITS ILLEGAL!

4 years ago

Tell them you would very much enjoy eating Migalloo for dinner.

Why Japanese Whaling is ILLEGAL
4 years ago

I see Mr Free-Diver is still winding everybody up over the issue of whaling and every-time the answers destroy his petty arguments.

My question why is Mr Free-Diver in Greenpeace?

Because of the conversations I've read he is always in Favor of Whaling surely he would be better off working for the Faroe Islands??

4 years ago

Im not sure what part Mr. Freediver isnt understanding. The Japanese are NOT doing scientific whaling- they are selling whale meat to EAT. And THAT is illegal poaching.

 

Sustainable means keeping an ecosystem healthy and thriving. I think he believes "sustainable" means killing, eating and profiting from anything that moves.

 

The whaling disturbs the entire Southern Ocean ecosystem, and many endangered sharks and turtles are injured and killed as by-catch, and many endangered whales are hit with whaling vessels. THAT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE, or LEGAL.

4 years ago

why dont you ask your own counrty, Australia, to do the whaling for you?

I think we should take it one step at a time. We will allow other countries to whale first, then we will allow the importation of whale meat, then we will legalise local whaling.

And THAT is illegal poaching.

Not according to the IWC, or international law. Tell me Nyack, what is it that determines whether something is actually illegal - what you really really want to be illegal, or what the law actually says?

The whaling disturbs the entire Southern Ocean ecosystem, and many endangered sharks and turtles are injured and killed as by-catch

That is just stupid. Do you really believe that?

 

http://www.ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/why-allow-whaling.html

4 years ago

What defines it? Exactly what I said in my very first post. Speaking of "STUPID", either you didnt read it, or dont understand it. Or perhaps you are refering to your mother, calling people "STUPID".

 

 

Ask Australia to do whaling for you. THEY WONT. THEY KNOW THERE IS A MORATORIUM ON WHALING.

 

The Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA) is the main regulatory vehicle that protects marine mammal species and their habitats in an effort to main sustainable populations. In doing so, the statute outlines prohibitions, required permits, criminal and civil penalties, and international aspects in addressing marine mammals.

 

The MMPA defines "take" as “the act of hunting, killing, capture, and/or harassment of any marine mammal; or, the attempt at such.

 

Violation of the Act, or a permit or regulation issued under it, is subject to a civil penalty of up to $10,000 per violation. Each unlawful taking or importation is a separate offense. Knowing violation of the Act, or a permit or regulation issued under it, is subject to a criminal penalty of up to $20,000 per violation or imprisonment for one year, or both. (The $20,000 maximum fine stated in the Act and repeated in this summary is modified by the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984, as amended by the Criminal Fine Improvements Act of 1987.

 

4 years ago

AND NO- this does NOT apply only if you "live in Colorado" as you so stupidly claim-

 

The Australian Federal Courts have ruled that the Japanese whaling company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha is breaking the law by whaling in Australian territory

So what precisley are the Japanese guilty of?

The company's offenses are having "killed, injured, taken and interfered with Antarctic minke whales (Balaenoptera bonaerensis) and fin whales (Balaenoptera physalus) and injured, taken and interfered with humpback whales (Megaptera novaeangliae) in the Australian Whale Sanctuary..."
4 years ago

What defines it? Exactly what I said in my very first post.

Japans whaling activity is allowed under international law. Everyone knows this. There is no question of the legality among sane people.

The Australian Federal Courts have ruled that the Japanese whaling company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha is breaking the law by whaling in Australian territory

Correction. They have ruled that they are breaking Australian law in territory that does not belong to Australia under international law. If you actually read the ruling they admit that it is meaningless because of this.

4 years ago

The only legal whaling is for "Scientific Whaling".

 

It has been proven, the whales leave the whaling ships and go DIRECTLY to restauarants for sale.

 

THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC WHALING BEING DONE BY JAPAN!

 

It is illegal, and they KNOW it is illegal- otherwise? they would just say,

 "we are whaling for food and it is perfectly legal"!

 

They dont say that. They lie and try to cover that up.



This post was modified from its original form on 11 Mar, 6:51
4 years ago

It is illegal, and they KNOW it is illegal- otherwise? they would just say,

 "we are whaling for food and it is perfectly legal"!

 

They dont say that. They lie and try to cover that up.

 

You are not making any sense Nyack. Whether you think it counts as scientific is irrelevant and your half baked 'analysis' is about as far from an informed legal opinion as you can get. You wouldn't go offering unsolicited medical advice about something you know absolutely nothing about and insisting you are right. So how is it helpful for you to mislead people with stupid legal advice? How does it help Greenpeace's reputation for people like you to spread these absurd lies in their name? Does Greenpeace really need you to lie for them to justify their cause?

4 years ago

Why dont they just say, we are whaling to sell the whale meat for profit? That is what they are doing, commercial, industrial whaling. It has been proven.

 

 

But no- they lie and use the "scientific whaling" loophole, to escape penalties of illegal activity.

 

Because the act of hunting, killing, capture, and/or harassment of any marine mammal; or, the attempt at such, is illegal, and carries a CRIMINAL FINE.

4 years ago

Apparently Freediver, you are more uneducated than I thought. Beings you are hanging around GREENPEACE accusing me of making up "lies"- perhaps you should read up on my source, The Tokoyo Two- Two Japanese GREENPEACE members, who would know far more about their own countries practices far more than you would ever hope two, standing on the sidelines, demanding your fair share of whale blubber to suck on.

 

Tokyo Two declare whale meat victory

By North Asia correspondent Mark Willacy

Updated Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:30pm AEDT

 

SOURCE:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/12/29/3103495.htm

 

Two Japanese Greenpeace activists known as the Tokyo Two say they have been vindicated in their efforts to expose corruption in the country's whaling industry.

The powerful Japanese Fisheries Agency has admitted that some of its officials took kickbacks of whale meat.

For Toru Suzuki, this confession by the Fisheries Agency could help overturn his criminal conviction.

Together with fellow Greenpeace activist Junichi Sato, he was handed a one-year suspended sentence for stealing whale meat.

He says he was merely intercepting public property stolen by the whalers and exposing this corruption in the public interest.

"This is a big victory for us," Mr Suzuki said.

"This is a very important step for us to tell the Japanese public about what we've been doing."

Six months ago the ABC broadcast allegations by two whaling crew members that officials and crew were illegally taking thousands of dollars worth of whale cuts.

At the time the Fisheries Agency denied the allegations, but it has now reprimanded officials for taking more than $3,000 worth of whale meat.

The agency has apologised and vowed to stamp out corruption in the industry.

But the confession by the Fisheries Agency that public officials corruptly accepted whale meat has been barely reported in Japan.

Prime Minister Julia Gillard says the revelations reinforce the Federal Government's legal action against Japan's whaling program.



This post was modified from its original form on 11 Mar, 18:20
4 years ago

Nyack C. you do make sence you are very clear! Freediver C Yes IT IS illegal- otherwise? they would just say,

"we are whaling for food and it is perfectly legal"! But they don't so We the people [who care!] Do our level best to fight the ignorance that mankind is so full of, ie: like you, Freediver C ! And no they should not waste the meat when in the first place they are not supposed to be killing the whales anyway. You are not making any sense Freediver C, do you not know how to read? Whether you think all that Nyack C. said it counts as scientificor is irrelevant and your half baked 'analysis' or is about as far from an informed legal opinion as you can get. And you wouldn't go offering unsolicited medical advice about something you know absolutely nothing about and insisting you are right. So how is it helpful for you to mislead people with stupid legal advice? You seem to feel you know more then him and or GreenPeace How does it help Greenpeace's reputation for people like you to spread these absurd lies in their name? Does Greenpeace really need you Freediver C here spouting out your disusting none support of our whales and marine life? You are a destroyer of Mother Earth, our Oceans and our fish and whales, etc! You are a HATER, A TROLL! You clearly don't care about Greenpeace and their cause all of our cause. CLEARLY YOU ARE ABSURD and nothing JUSTIFIES YOU being here! I've been confused why you are here and why you won't go away???????????????? Everyone else with me on this one here???

4 years ago

But no- they lie and use the "scientific whaling" loophole

There you have it. What type of loophole is it? It's a legal loophole. Do you understand what that means? I should answer for you once more. It means that what they are doing is legal.


Does Greenpeace really need you Freediver C here spouting out your disusting none support

 

If you think Greenpeace would be better off having people like you spreading blatant lies on their behalf unchallenged, just say so. That appears to be what Nyack thinks.

4 years ago

Here is the bottem line.Nobody gives a crap what you want. We care about what WHALES want, and they want to live.

 

 

Only the likes of Aldoph Hitler would find "A FINAL SOLUTION" to be death for profit.

 

Screw you. We defend whales and will continue to do so.

 

The only harrasment going on is what you are doin in this group.

 

IT IS ILLEGAL. THE JAPANESE ARE IN VIOLATION OF THE SOUTHERN OCEAN  SANCTUARY.

4 years ago

This is not a question of what I want. It is a simple question of fact.

 

Fact: The Japanese whale hunt is legal.

4 years ago

no... they are poaching, and it is ILLEGAL.

 

And? It IS a question of what YOU want, in your own words, "I'd like to have a go at it" (whalemeat)

 

Thats why I tell you, have your own government do the whaling for you and stop trying to whore Japan because you want the experience of sucking on whale blubber.

 

And? Australia wont. KNOW WHY THEY WONT?????????????



This post was modified from its original form on 13 Mar, 1:43
4 years ago

You even admitted it yourself, when you explained that they are exploiting a legal loophole. There is a reason why they describe it as a legal rather than an illegal loophole. Is any of this sinking in?

 

Do you really think Japan is blatantly breaking international law and no-one can be bothered bringing them to justice? People try all the time. It is not the lack of trying that gets in the way, only the fact that the law is on Japans side.

 

http://www.ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/why-allow-whaling.html

 

Thats why I tell you, have your own government do the whaling for you and stop trying to whore Japan because you want the experience of sucking on whale blubber.

 

Like I said, I am merely responding to your rediculous assertion that Japan is acting illegally.

 

Does Greenpeace want you to lie for them? Do they even agree with you, or do you think greenpeace is wrong on the law as well? Can you find any reputable organisation that will validate your delusion of legal competence?

4 years ago

My delusions??? lol..ok...since the whaling morutorium, these "reputable organizations" validate!!!

 

 

Representatives of 15 governments urged Japan to end its whaling program: Austria, Brazil, Britain, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, Monaco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Sweden, Switzerland and the United States. Personal appeals to end the illegal hunt have been made by President Clinton, U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair and New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark.

4 years ago

At the time, then President Clinton had this to say, "Japan's decision last week to begin killing two more protected species of whales demands the strongest possible response from the world community. In September 2000, Japan's whaling fleet returned to port from the North Pacific having caught 43 Bryde's whales, 5 sperm whales and 40 minke whales. Despite worldwide condemnation of this illegal whale hunt, the Japanese government suffered no ill consequences for it."

4 years ago

Its ok you think I am "delusional" because I think you (at this point) are completely retarded and I am starting to feel a bit sorry for you.

 

 

By exploiting a loophole in International Whaling Commission (IWC) rules that allows for "scientific" whaling, Japan kills over 500 whales per year. However, the IWC has concluded that the information gained does not justify the killing of whales for research purposes. Furthermore, meat from the whales killed will be sold as a delicacy on the open market in Japan.

"This hunt is not about science but about feeding the lucrative gourmet market for whale meat."

4 years ago

WHALING IS NOT SUSTAINABLE

 

Whaling is not sustainable:

Whale droppings is vital to ocean’s carbon cycle Saving endangered baleen whales could boost the carbon storage capacity of the Southern Ocean, suggests a new study of whale feces. Whale feces once provided huge quantities of iron to a now anaemic Southern Ocean, boosting the growth of carbon-sequestering phytoplankton.

 

A. whales mature slowly, the impact of even a single death will have long
reaching effects for the future of that species and, ultimately on
the environment as a whole.

 

B. Unsustainable fuel is consumed by the whaling fleets en route to the Antarctic and other open seas. Also, fuel is consumed by the freezing ship for transporting the byproducts of whaling to the Japanese markets.



This post was modified from its original form on 13 Mar, 4:52
4 years ago

Perhaps, Mr Freediver, you have some sort of brain damage that inhibits your reading comprehension... let's look at pretty pictures instead.

 

 

 

 

Japan
4 years ago

I'm sorry for people and animals in Japan suffuring from nature disaster. At the same time Japan was punished for animal cruelty. Nature fights back.

4 years ago

What a fantastic Picture, that picture paints a 100.000. words don't you think.

Yes my heart goes out to the Japanese people, its going to take years to get back to normality. God help them....

My daughter is alive!
4 years ago

Sorry I haven't been keeping up with the discussion, but I've been going through a very tough time:  My youngest daughter, Angela (20 yrs.) is teaching English in Japan this year and we lost contact with her after the eathquake struck. It was 24 hours of sheer agony waiting to hear from her, but finally she managed to borrow a cell phone and send a message that she's alive.

 

Angela's teaching group is in Sakata, Yamagata which is on the other coast from the worst of the disaster. They have intermittent power so it was very cold the first night and they are making sure they have enough non-perishable food to get by in case of shortages. Thank goodness her little students are alright, but they don't know about the teachers and students on the other side yet. She says they can't watch the news because it is too devastating when you are so close to what is happening. I just want to bring her home, but I don't know if that will be possible.

 

Anyone who suggests that this tragedy is some sort of "divine retribution" for Japan's activities related to animal welfare must seriously consider their internal values as a member of the human race.

 

The following is an extremely well researched article written last year explaining why Japan continues their whaling activities even though it doesn't seem to make any sense to do so.  The author provides insightful answers to virtually every topic discussed here to date and more:

 

http://the-diplomat.com/2010/12/10/the-real-reason-japan-keeps-whaling/3/

 

Every year, Japanese whaling provokes international outrage, hugely damaging the country’s image. So why does it keep doing it?


‘It’s Gojira versus the whalers,’ the headline screamed. Welcome to the latest instalment of the whale wars, where truth has long been a casualty.

 

4 years ago

Its about PROFIT, and corruption.

 

"This hunt is not about science but about feeding the lucrative gourmet market for whale meat."

And Futhermore-

Japanese whalers hurt their own Japanese people and children by selling whale meat which is contaminated with mercury & heavy metals to Japanese children which causes them brain damage, and causes Japanese children to have birth defects.

Mercury Poisioning from Whalemeat


4 years ago

And PS Cindy... if you are looking for "Whale Wars"- Please try Sea Shepard- its a different organization.

 

4 years ago

And regarding "racism" the only racism I have seen on this thread is Freedivers instance on calling the Japanese "THE JAPS", even though it was pointed out, repeteadly, that it is an ethic slur, equivelent to calling a black person a

n_igger.

 

The truth certianly IS lost. We know about the corruption and lies because of fellow Japanese Greenpeace members. Junichi is the executive director of Greenpeace, Japan!!!!

4 years ago

And... whats next? Greenpeace should support Nuclear Energy in Japan, and if we dont we are racists? lol... sorry, Nuclear isn't clean, isnt green and CERTIANLY isnt safe.

 

 

We happen to hold the planet in high regard and dont want it damaged. We happen to care about ALL species and ecosystems. If you are not spiritual fit to think outside the box- and insist on believing this planet is a playground for human beings only (and need to define them neatly by nationality) then? thats on you, but dont expect GREENPEACE to conform to anything other than the values it CLEARLY states-

 

Our campaigns
  • Stop Global Warming

    We are changing our planet in a fundamental way. Our world is hotter today than it has been in two thousand years. By the end of the century, if current trends continue, the global temperature could climb so high that the climate and weather patterns that have given rise to human civilization would be radically different.

    But it didn’t happen on its own. We’re driving climate change by burning fossil fuels like coal and oil. In fact, coal-fired power plants are the single largest U.S. source of global warming pollution.

    America's coal-burning power plants, in addition to causing climate change, are killing tens of thousands of Americans, poisoning our air and water, and making our children sick. Read more.

  • Save Oceans, Whales and Seafood

    All around the world, our oceans are in crisis. Three quarters of global fish stocks are suffering from overfishing and 90% of top marine predators are already gone.

    Destructive fishing practices destroy critical ocean habitats, pirate fishing harms global fish stocks and as the ocean becomes more vulnerable—it will succumb more quickly to the harmful effects of global warming.

    Whale slaughter continues to put endangered species at risk and pollution from land-based sources is turning the oceans into a dumping ground. Read more.

  • Protect Forests

    Ancient forests are disappearing before our eyes. Not only does forest loss eliminate wildlife habitat and harm biodiversity, but tropical deforestation releases tons of greenhouse gases that contribute to climate change. Help us protect forests and the climate. Read more.

  • Push for No New Nukes

    Nuclear power is neither safe nor clean. There is no such thing as a "safe" dose of radiation and just because nuclear pollution is invisible doesn't mean it's "clean."

    If a meltdown were to occur, the accident could kill and injure tens of thousands of people, leaving large regions uninhabitable. And, more than 50 years after splitting the first atom, science has yet to devise a method for adequately handling long lived radioactive wastes. Read more.

  • Eliminate Toxic Chemicals

    Toxic chemicals are all around us. In order to create the products that we use every day, companies often produce and release thousands of chemical compounds every year.

    Unfortunately these companies have inadequate government oversight and these dangerous chemicals are released into the environment—threatening our rivers, lakes, air, land, oceans, and ultimately ourselves and our future. Read more.

  • Promote Sustainable Agriculture

    Greenpeace is campaigning for agriculture that is good for the planet and people. Healthy food grown with the environment- not against it. Farming that helps farmers to cope with climate change. Read more.

4 years ago

thank you

Please seek Therapeutic Couselling
4 years ago

Thank you for your concern for my family and our painful circumstances. 

 

There was NO mention of "racism", killing of anything, or "pro" nuclear energy in the article I posted.  It was simply for informational purposes only and does contain some highly enlightening information.  Apparently some people do not feel the need to enlighten themselves as they appear to already know everything.

 

I will continue to pray for those who have lost lives, loved ones and homes in Japan during this tragedy.  I will also continue my work in assisting those of all cultures to understand the importance of Biological diversity and help them to assimilate these principles into their lives without destroying their livlihood and cultural values and beliefs.

 

Best of luck to you doing whatever it is you are doing...

4 years ago

I'm sorry but I've been concerned about the painful circumstances. And calling them Japs is "racism", killing of anything, was mentioned in the above as well regarding whaling. People do care and are worried myself very much so as well! I have family there. I have a very muti mixed family I deal with "racism", in my family constantly! My daughter has to often leave the park with my grandchildren because they are mixed race for their own safty. So I have to respectfuly disagree with you Cindy P. There is 1 person in the above who spoke out of terms! Doesn't mind calling them Japs or eating whale meat is a bad thing. It sounds to me you agree with him atleast on the whaling issue? Maybe you should re-read and or take your own advice. (Please seek Therapeutic Couselling) Whaling is out dated and very wrong! We are destroying and taking away everything and leaving nothing!!!!!!!!!!! GREED IS A UGLY THING NOTHING TO DO WITH LILIHOOD OR CULTURE OR BELIEFS, ETC. Like in some contries beating live animals before skinning them alive is a belief anf culture that the meat gets tender but in reality the animal suffers greatly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OUTDATED AND NO EXCUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JUST LIKE KILLING GIRL BABIES BECAUSE THEY WANT MORE MALE KIDS! WTF!!!!!!!!! OK. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?????????????????????????

4 years ago

Most excellent point you make, Brinda- about cultures having the "tradition" of killing baby girls. Just because a culture holds a believe to be true, does not mean the rest of the world need support it.

 

Its been a proven fact that there is a link between animal abuses and human abuses. It all comes from the same heartless place in the soul and mind and stems from greed.

 

I have just one more point to make on this, as I have been accused of being a "LIAR".- I ask a little common sense here~

 

WHAT benefit is it to me to lie? What benefit to Greenpeace? We make ZERO profit.

 

What benefit to whalers to lie? How much profit do they stand to make by hiding and distorting the truth?

 

 

Trade your 10 tons of whale meat for one ounce of common sense! WHO benefits from a "LIE"? Certianly not me! Not ONE PENNY.



This post was modified from its original form on 14 Mar, 4:31
4 years ago

And Cindy? I WILL seek "theraputic Councelling" when the topic is about human beings and I do not respond.

 

 

Perhaps you should seek theraputic councelling for not showing ONE OUNCE of support for whales, on a whaling thread.

 

 

4 years ago

If you think there was no mention of RACISM , Cindy- I suggest you re-read the link you posted in this group about why Japan contiues whaling-

 

YOUR LINK

http://the-diplomat.com/2010/12/10/the-real-reason-japan-keeps-whaling/3/

4 years ago

Does Greenpeace agree with you that the whaling is illegal?

4 years ago

YES!!! Greenpeace is one of the MANY organizations (including presidents and Prime Ministers) to agree that the whaling is illegal- and NOBODY makes a nickle claiming it is illegal. Hunting and poaching in a sanctuary is illegal!

 

 

Link from 1999

http://archive.greenpeace.org/oceans/whales/8novrelease.htm

4 years ago

And Cindy? I WILL seek "theraputic Councelling" when the topic is about human beings and I do not respond.

 

 

Perhaps you should seek theraputic councelling for not showing ONE OUNCE of support for whales, on a whaling thread.

 

mercury poison
4 years ago

And again it is because of the greed and the stupidity of people that there is so much mercury in the meat of whales, dolphins, ....

It is because we pollute the oceans with mercury and the poor sea animals who have to survive on fish and other seafood eat all this mercury the people put in the ocean (mostly from the gold industrie) and they suffer above all other problems also this terrible poissining, with brain damage and headache's etc.
It is a pity but it is worse for them then for the people who eat whale or dolphin meat, because these people can also eat other things and the creatures in the seas don't have any alternatives.
We, people give so much problems to our fellow living beings on our Mother Earth. Shame on the human race for countless matters!

4 years ago

So all these people, including the most powerful man on earth, agree that the Japanese whaling is illegal. And what do they do in response? Ask them nicely to stop breaking the law?

 

Can you not appreciate the absurdity?

4 years ago

Noone controls Antartica- it has no government- only a treaty signed by 17 countries. Therefore there is no traditional law enforcement and no government seems to have money to patrol the waters.

 

Can you appreciate the absurdity that people think it is legal to poach whales under false pretenses in a whale sanctuary?

 

 

4 years ago

4 years ago

In answer to your earlier question, what is legal is ultimately defined by the courts. If no-one can successfully bring charges against someone who is so blatantly 'breaking the law', even on video, then it is obviously not illegal. Think about it. Not sure why common sense is so rare among the anti whaling herd.

 

http://www.ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/why-allow-whaling.html

 

Noone controls Antartica- it has no government- only a treaty signed by 17 countries. Therefore there is no traditional law enforcement and no government seems to have money to patrol the waters.

 

Again you are wrong and display total ignorance of international law.

 

You don't need to 'patrol' the waters if Japan is not denying what they do. You can even see it on the news. The facts are not in dispute, only the legality. (Actually, the legality is not in dispute either, at least among people who understand the law, or have a bit of common sense.)

 

Japan has been successfully brought to justice for illegal fishing in international waters - without video evidence, without a massive public outcry etc. The key difference of course is that they were breaking the law in that instance. Not so in the case of whaling.

 

Think about it.

4 years ago

Yes it IS the case. There is a WORLDWIDE whaling moratorium on whaling. That means the ENTIRE planet... not just some parts of it. YOU are the one (once again) ignoring International Law.

 

 

They are NOT doing any "Scienitific Whaling". They are commerical whaling for the food industry. Why dont they just admit that??? BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL!

 

WHALING IS NOT SUSTAINABLE

 

Whaling is not sustainable:

Whale droppings is vital to ocean’s carbon cycle Saving endangered baleen whales could boost the carbon storage capacity of the Southern Ocean, suggests a new study of whale feces. Whale feces once provided huge quantities of iron to a now anaemic Southern Ocean, boosting the growth of carbon-sequestering phytoplankton.

 

A. whales mature slowly, the impact of even a single death will have long
reaching effects for the future of that species and, ultimately on
the environment as a whole.

 

B. Unsustainable fuel is consumed by the whaling fleets en route to the Antarctic and other open seas. Also, fuel is consumed by the freezing ship for transporting the byproducts of whaling to the Japanese markets.

 



This post was modified from its original form on 16 Mar, 7:19
4 years ago
1 day ago
|

So all these people, including the most powerful man on earth, agree that the Japanese whaling is illegal. And what do they do in response? Ask them nicely to stop breaking the law?

 

Can you not appreciate the absurdity?

 

Apparently, Freediver, you think "DIPLOMACY" is absurd? I rest my case. You are a waste of time going over the same issue with nothing new to add. We will continue to do what we do to save whales. You can continue to stand there holding dead sealife, screaming to have a taste of whale blubber.

Actually, you are so obsessed with this issue I believe you have some sort of warped, twisted fetish to kill, see, hold, and eat dead things rather that any sustainablity issues.

Im finished with this topic and responding to your nonsense.

 



This post was modified from its original form on 16 Mar, 7:33
4 years ago

Apparently, Freediver, you think "DIPLOMACY" is absurd?

Do you think allowing a country to blatantly and repeatedly violate international law is diplomacy? What makes whales so special that all these countries will allow Japan to illegally slaughter them while happily bringing the Japs to justice over some fish? Why is it that the Japanese whalers have been 'tried' in jurisdictions that have no real authority (eg the Australian case you were so confused about) but not in the one legal system that actually has the authority? Why haven;t NGOs like Greenpeace started legal action? Is Greenpeace allowing the Japs to slaughter whales to be diplomatic?

When are you going to face the reality? All these claims it is illegal are just posturing. Everyone knows it is legal - hence the term legal loohole.

4 years ago

Thanks for the post!

4 years ago

Here in the United States, PERJURY is illegal. Maybe the planet you live on it is perfectly legal to kill, cheat, steal and LIE, but? Here on planet Earth, it is generally UNNACEPTABLE.

 

It isnt legal, when you use a legal loophole to violate the INTERNATIONAL BAN ON WHALING.



This post was modified from its original form on 17 Mar, 7:49
4 years ago

It isnt legal, when you use a legal loophole

 

Can you explain the 2nd use of the adjective 'legal' in that sentence?

 

4 years ago

thank you.

Japanese ba4barism.
4 years ago

Nature fights back in Japan because their animal cruelty.

Racism and innapropriate attitudes
4 years ago

Well, I guess Canada is next then, since I hear through a promo by one of the blood-sucking "Non-profits" that we have "A Culture of Cruelty", in reference to one or the other of our "barbaric" practices such as seal hunting or allowing our indigenous peoples their rights to hunt polar bears for subsistenence (which means to earn a living and does allow them to sell their right to a bear and act as Guide to a Trophy Hunter, the income from which supports entire communities).

 

Then I suppose China is in for an earthquake due to Bear Bile Farming, killing dogs and cats, and who knows what else people will think of to judge them for.

 

Might as well kiss Australia goodbye for killing kangaroos and likely all sorts of animals we haven't even criticized them for yet!  Goodbye Freediver!

 

Looks like the good old US of A will be the only country left standing after the great "retribution" is done!...possibly parts of Europe also.  Only the perfect shall survive.

 

(Funny thing about the "Trophy Hunters"; seems they're mainly weathly folks from the USA and some from Europe.  You couldn't find a Canadian with a spare $45,000 to hunt a Polar Bear even if they wanted to.)

 

 

4 years ago

Yea, your right, Cindy, Canada is BARBARIC in its seal hunt... there is NOTHING humane about banging a baby seal cub over the head and skinning it often while it is still alive.

 

Incidentally? That is TOTALLY legal, but NOT sustainable.

 

Why Sealing is Not Sustainable

Myths and Facts About The Seal Hunt

http://www.hsi.org/assets/pdfs/myths_and_facts_seal_hunt.pdf

                   

 

      

 

      

4 years ago

And as far as hunting Polar Bears- the Canadians sure have managed to capture a few and sell them to zoos.

 

 

For instance, The Beloved Knut from Canada sold to the Berlin Zoo? He is dead at 4 years old, by the way. Died yesterday.

 

 

 

95
Knut The Polar Bear Dies in Berlin
Knut The Polar Bear Dies in Berlin

Animals  (tags: polar bear, death, sudden, captivity, zoo )

Kim
- 22 hours ago - thestar.com
Very sad news to relate. Little polar bear Knut died today at the Berlin Zoo. RIP little bear, gone from here too soon. Cause of death is still unknown at this time. He was 4 yrs old with a life expectancy of 15 to 20 yrs. It certainly wasn't old age!!

 

4 years ago

And I suppose National Geographic is one of those "BLOOD SUCKING NON PROFITS", with a "hippy agenda" that warn of the disappearance of the polar bear?

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/09/070910-polar-bears.html

4 years ago

Incidentally? That is TOTALLY legal, but NOT sustainable.

Why not? Taking the babies is actually better for sustainability.

It isnt legal, when you use a legal loophole

Can you explain the 2nd use of the adjective 'legal' in that sentence?

4 years ago

Yea, here is an example-

 

 

It isnt legal to murder a child. But? You can say it was an "accident". Thats a legal loophole, leaving murder illegal all the same.

 

That the kind of NONSENSE you can spin when you lie, as any lawyer can tell you.

 

 

 

 

4 years ago

That example does not apply here. Saying a murder was an accident instead would involve lying about what actually happened. The Japanese are not hiding anything and there is no disagreement with them about any of the facts. Furthermore, the law in this case makes no distinction based on political motive. It only covers what the Japanese do, not what they are thinking about while they do it.

 

The legal loophole covers what the Japanese are actually doing. Otherwise they could not get away with doing it year after year.

 

This is why it is legal. It is why they can get away with doing it over and over again, cameras rolling. That is why, despite all the rhetoric from certain politicians about 'real action' they never actually do anything.

 

The only real test of whether something is legal is whether the courts can stop it. There have been court cases on this issue. They have only been able to issue statements, and those statements acknowledged an inability to legally stop Japanese whaling.

4 years ago

You think what you want Freediver. You will need to find another country to whore for your whalemeat, the entire whaling fleet is destroyed.

 

 

It ISNT legal. There is a moratorium on whaling. And they have NOT been doing any "scientific whaling". This is why it is ILLEGAL. And it isnt any more sustainable than nuclear energy.

 

 

 

4 years ago

the entire whaling fleet is destroyed

 

I guess this puts your claims about legal knowledge into perspective.

4 years ago

And futhermore, if the whaling were not illegal, Greenpeace and Sea Shepard would be arrested by the international whaling commision.

 

They havent been... know why? BECAUSE THEY LEGALLY PROTECT WHALES FROM ILLEGAL WHALING!!!

4 years ago

I guess this puts your desire to suck blubber into perspective.

4 years ago

got no time for you, blubber sucking retard, who doesnt have enough class NOT to call the Japanese ethnic slurs ("THE JAPS") even during a time of crisis.

4 years ago

And futhermore, if the whaling were not illegal, Greenpeace and Sea Shepard would be arrested by the international whaling commision.

So you are happy to use this as a measure of what is legal for Greenpeace, but not for the Japs? Bit of a double standard don't you think?

 

What authority does the IWC have over Greenpeace? What mandate would they have to arrest them?



This post was modified from its original form on 25 Mar, 18:28
Stop being deliberately obtuse
4 years ago

 

Nyack, it was obvious that I was being facetious.  You deliberately pretend to "miss the point" in order to be argumentative and downright abusive. (Do you really think that just because I'm Canadian I carry a Hakapik to the office with me each day in case I should happen upon a radom seal pup in Toronto?)

 

You know very well my point was that for anyone to suggest a human tragedy of the magnitude that has happened in Japan is due to animal cruelty is not only insensitive, but positively evil.

 

Let's face it, we could all post horrible graphics depicting each other's nations cruelty to animals, but where does it get anyone?

 

Photobucket


Photobucket
Photobucket

 

http://current.com/green/88811075_end-aerial-wolf-hunting.htm

 

"Explosive new video blasts the justification for Alaska's current aerial wolf hunting program and rallies voters to end it. Using testimony from Alaska Department of Fish & Game staff, a master hunting guide, and Board of Game members, this video exposes the fallacy behind Governor Sarah Palins claim that predator control is based on sound science. Declarations that the program is for the benefit of subsistence hunters are shattered with documentation showing that sport and trophy hunters take up to 73% of prey in areas where aerial wolf hunting has taken place."

 

Do you see me accusing you of condoning aerial wolf hunting just because you're an American?  I am interested in truth and facts.  Without those two things any attempt at saving wildlife and the environment will not be taken seriously and could result in loss of credibility.  While I am not condoning killing of anything, especially Whales, I do feel there are some instances when killing some animals is warranted, 1) for human protection 2) in some cases for food 3) Indigenous people's rights to hunt.

 

One of the "facts" that I do agree with Freediver on is that Whaling by the Japanese is not technically "illegal" at this point in time.  This does NOT mean that I approve of it, only that it IS technically legal.  There are two reasons for this: 1)  by definition a "loophole" in the law makes the "act" legal.

 

LOOPHOLE - The definition:

"An omission or ambiguity in a legal document that allows the intent of the document to be evaded.

Loopholes come into being through the passage of statutes, the enactment of regulations, the drafting of contracts or the decisions of courts. A loophole allows an individual or group to use some gap in the restrictions or requirements of the law or contract for personal advantage without technically breaking the law or contract. In response, lawmakers and regulators work to pass reforms that will close the loophole."


Read more:
http://www.answers.com/topic/loophole#ixzz1HevFLmrU

 

....cont'd

 

4 years ago

It doesnt matter to me if you agree with freediver or Sadam Hussain, Cindy.

 

I am here, in this group, because I support Greenpeace and Greenpeace stance on whaling. Which is this

 

Link from 1999

http://archive.greenpeace.org/oceans/whales/8novrelease.htm

 

 

You and Freediver are being abusive- why dont you start your own group instead of trolling  Greenpeace and saying what you dont agree with the organization about? because... that just makes you both TROLLS.

 

Abusive? You called me a Nazi... I think THAT is pretty abusive. Naz's kill things, I havent killed anything, actually just the opposite.

 

And as far as Freediver, he has been abusive with me for 6 threads... do you suppose I should just smile? Im not going to...He has expressed he thinks I am stupid, ignorant, delusional, etc. And, likewise, I think he is a blubber sucking moron with a strong desire to kill.

 

I dont care what either one of you think. I am in Greenpeace to defend whales.

 

What you are doing in Greenpeace is anyones guess.

 

 

Reason 2)
4 years ago

The second reason it is technically "legal" is because, as Freediver has pointed out it is "International Law", which means outside of virtually declaring war there is no viable method of enforcement.

 

I have already posted the link in Freediver's thread.  These are the IWC stat's on whale takes by nation:

 

"Catches by IWC member nations in the 2009 and 2009/2010 seasons

 

Special Permit -Japan -   North Pacific 

101 Sei

50 Bryde's

165  Minke

1  Sperm


Special Permit -Japan -   Antarctic

1  Fin

507 Minke


* Including 1 struck and lost.
** Including 3 struck and lost.


The Japanese research programmes in the Antarctic (JARPA II) and North Pacific are continuing on the basis of existing long-term plans (although Japan is not taking humpback whales in the Antarctic in order to facilitate discussions on the future of the IWC).

 

The proposed South Atlantic Whale Sanctuary was included as an integral part of the proposed Consensus Decision (see Item 3 above). Argentina re-stated the importance of the proposed South Atlantic Sanctuary, and requested that it be retained on the Commission’s agenda for further consideration at forthcoming meetings."

 

Obviously if it were "illegal" for Japan to be whaling all of this data would not be posted openly in the minutes of the last meeting of the IWC.  Also, note they state the "proposed" South Atlantic Whale Sanctuary, therefore it is not officially designated as a sanctuary by the IWC  - yet.  It is also obvious that things are changing fast and whaling by Japan will likely not continue more than a year or two if at all. 

 

Note:  By definition I believe the IWC "moratorium" was intended to be taken as definition #2, i.e. a cooperative agreement as opposed to a "law" due to the international nature of the council and the inability to enforce an actual "law".

moratorium [ˌmɒrəˈtɔːrɪəm]n pl -ria [-rɪə], -riums

1. (Law) a legally authorized postponement of the fulfilment of an obligation

2. an agreed suspension of activity

 

In conclusion, it is my belief that all things do resolve themselves eventually with peaceful, diplomatic solutions.  There is no need to beat people over the head, become abusive, and inhibit the free flow of creative ideas simply to "be right".  Compromise and enabling other cultures to evolve and learn about wildlife and conservation has more beneficial and successful long-term effects than forceful methods of persuasion.  Force only causes resentment and a negative back-lash which causes more problems in the long-run.

 

4 years ago

And the "compromise" continues to kill whales.

 

Not willing to compromise. Neither is Sea Shepard, so? The whalers will have to continue to throw harpoons at us.

 

 

Just goes to show you, the type of person willing to kill a whale is ALSO willing to kill a human.



This post was modified from its original form on 25 Mar, 20:17
4 years ago

You stand by whatever standard you wish.

I stand by President Obama-

 

"As president, I will ensure that the U.S. provides leadership in enforcing international wildlife protection agreements, including strengthening the international moratorium on commercial whaling. Allowing Japan to continue commercial whaling is unacceptable."

 

And by Greenpeace

http://archive.greenpeace.org/oceans/whales/8novrelease.htm



This post was modified from its original form on 25 Mar, 20:30
Knut
4 years ago

Knut was not born in Canada.  His mother was born here approximately 25 years ago....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knut_%28polar_bear%29

 

"Knut was born at the Berlin Zoo to 20-year-old Tosca, a former circus performer from East Germany who was born in Canada, and her 13-year-old mate Lars, who was originally from the Tierpark Hellabrunn in Munich. After an uncomplicated gestation, Knut and his unnamed brother were born on 5 December 2006. Tosca rejected her cubs for unknown reasons, abandoning them on a rock in the polar bear enclosure.[7] Zoo keepers rescued the cubs by scooping them out of the enclosure with an extended fishing net,[7] but Knut's brother died of an infection four days later. Knut was the first polar bear to have been born and survive in the Berlin Zoo in over 30 years. Only the size of a guinea pig, he spent the first 44 days of his life in an incubator before zoo keeper Thomas Dörflein began raising the cub. "

 

 

4 years ago

Yea... you are right Cindy- Knut Mother was born in Canada

 

His mother , Tosca was born in Canada and wandered all by herself over to the Berlin Zoo to give birth to Knut there.

4 years ago

Maybe she floated there on her on free will on an iceberg...

4 years ago

signed thanks

4 years ago

You and Freediver are being abusive

No Nyack. You are being abusive and childish. You resort to petty insults every time you lose an argument. It is you that harms Greenpeace with your childish antics on their behalf.

He has expressed he thinks I am stupid, ignorant, delusional, etc. And, likewise, I think he is a blubber sucking moron with a strong desire to kill.

The difference is Nyack, I have enough self control to refrain from posting petty insults and I do not see them as a substitute for rational argument. Not so with you.

The second reason it is technically "legal" is because, as Freediver has pointed out it is "International Law", which means outside of virtually declaring war there is no viable method of enforcement.

Not true. International agreements on tuna quotas have been enforced through legal means, with punishment for Japan, without war.

I stand by President Obama-

"As president, I will ensure that the U.S. provides leadership in enforcing international wildlife protection agreements, including strengthening the international moratorium on commercial whaling.


While he does what? Nothing? Feeding you platitudes? Lying to you?

4 years ago

Greenpeace is hardly harmed by my defending whales, or by defending myself.

 

 

You have expressed your opinion about me, and you are entitled to it, an opinion I have repeatedly given you links to. Because I believe whaling to be illegal (as do millions of others, including Greenpeace.) Because I believe as Greenpeace does that makes me "stupid, delusional, and ignorant"?... ok... thats your opinion.

 

Now let me give you my opinion, again. You are a blubber sucking retard insistant on holding this group hostage as a TROLL. Nothing more. You do not support Greenpeace, only your own profits.

 

You cannot abuse me without getting abuse right back.

 

O. And by the way? Killing whales is Animal Abuse.

 



This post was modified from its original form on 26 Mar, 3:27
4 years ago

I will tell you who is hurting Greenpeace- YOU. One of Greenpeace campaigns. Do you support it?

 

 

  • Save Oceans, Whales and Seafood

    All around the world, our oceans are in crisis. Three quarters of global fish stocks are suffering from overfishing and 90% of top marine predators are already gone.

    Destructive fishing practices destroy critical ocean habitats, pirate fishing harms global fish stocks and as the ocean becomes more vulnerable—it will succumb more quickly to the harmful effects of global warming.

    Whale slaughter continues to put endangered species at risk and pollution from land-based sources is turning the oceans into a dumping ground. Read more.

  • 4 years ago

    Greenpeace is hardly harmed by my defending whales

    So you don't think it reflects poorly on them when their legally illiterate supporters insist whaling is illegal then so quickly resort to childish insults in the face of rational argument?

    You have expressed your opinion about me


    Nyack, I have expressed my opinion about whether whaling is illegal. It should be obvious to everyone what I think of you personally, but there is no need for me to express it. It would be ungentlemanly of me to do so and I am not going to lower myself to that standard.

    I will tell you who is hurting Greenpeace- YOU. One of Greenpeace campaigns. Do you support it?
     
    # Save Oceans, Whales and Seafood


    Sure. One of the flavours of seafood I am trying to protect is whale. They might actually have some success in protecting the genuinely endangered species if they dropped this nonsense about all whales being endangered. This is why I made the suggestion - to help save Greenpeace's reputation, and with it all the species that actually need saving.

    4 years ago

    Mr. Noclass...

     

     

    You will greatly help Greenpeace's reputation by continuing to call the Japanese "THE JAPS", while screaming everyone is abusing YOU, lol

     

    Greenpeace does NOT support whaling, only you do.

    4 years ago

    Now? I have a choice. I can believe everything YOU say about whaling (and about me...)... or? I can believe what GREENPEACE says. I am ignorant, stupid and delusional for reading GREENPEACE Press Releases? ok...Then? thats what you think, and I have told you what I think of you.

     

    SOURCE:

    http://archive.greenpeace.org/oceans/whales/8novrelease.htm

     

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: 9 November 1999

    GREENPEACE DENOUNCES ILLEGAL JAPANESE WHALING

    Greenpeace today condemned the Japanese government for allowing the restart of whaling operations in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary around Antarctica. Japan's whaling fleet consisting of the whaling factory ship Nishin Maru, three catcher ships and a spotter vessel left Southern Japan today to hunt whales in Antarctica.

    Greenpeace pointed out that the whaling operations planned by the ships are in violation of the International Whaling Commission (IWC) whale sanctuary regime and undermine international law. Greenpeace called on governments to demand that the Japanese government cancel its Antarctic whaling program. The whalers plan to take 440 whales this year, up from 330 in 1995, and are considering expanding the number of whale species caught as well.

    "It is an outrage that on the brink of a new millennium whaling fleets are still allowed to ply the seas in complete disregard of international law," John Frizell, Greenpeace International "The world governments must make it clear to Japan that it is not acceptable to trample international regulations."

    The Southern Ocean sanctuary was created in 1994 by a decision of the IWC, the international body entrusted with conservation and management of the remaining whale populations around the globe. Continued whaling in the area conducted annually by the Japanese fleet under the guise of scientific research has been repeatedly condemned by the IWC. By ignoring these condemnations, Japan violates international maritime law, which requires that states must work with appropriate international organisations for conservation and study of cetaceans.

    The "research" is intended to pave the way for large scale commercial whaling taking thousands of whales a year and the industry is making large investments in the future of whaling. A new factory ship was purchased in 1991 and a new catcher was purpose built in 1998. Sources in the Japanese industry have confirmed that one of the purposes of the 'research' is to train new crews for future whaling.

    All whale meat produced by the "research" is sold on the commercial market, thus keeping the market alive.

    "The Japanese government must revoke the license to kill that it issued to the whalers", John Frizell added. �And all government must make sure that this message is clearly heard in Tokyo."

    4 years ago

    And... you call the Japanese "THE JAPS" one more time, Mr Verbally Abusive, I will have to tell you and everyone in Greenpeace that your MOTHER is ALSO a blubber sucking retard!

    4 years ago

    So... let me just make sure I am following your pretzel logic...

     

     

    1.) Whales have existed on this planet for 60 million years.

     

    2.) During the 20th century, many whales faced extinction due to overfishing and commerical whaling.

     

    3.) The solution to saving whale populations is to kill them and eat them.

     

    4.) After 60 million successful years, whales now need to be slaughtered by the whaling industry, to save them from the brink of extinction the whaling industry put them on.

     

    5.) LOL



    This post was modified from its original form on 26 Mar, 4:30
    4 years ago

    Cindy P. GOD BLESS YOU & YOUR DAUGHTER! I'M TRUELY VERY HAPPY SHE'S ALIVE! I DO CARE SWEETIE! My HEART BREAKS FOR ALL OF THE VICTOMS/PEOPLE AND ANIMALS ALIKE! I'VE BEEN PRAYING DAY & NIGHT FOR THEIR SAFTY! THEY ARE NOT JAPS THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS! IT IS VERY SAD INDEED AND NEED OUR SUPPORT & LOVE & CARE!!!!! I TRUELY LOVE AND CARE FOR THEIR WELL BEING, I'M ON YOUR SIDE!!!! I LOST A DAUGHTER FROM A DFFERENT SITUATION! I'M SO GREATFUL YOURS WAS SPARED, GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR BABY GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I PRAY ALL GOES WELL FOR EVERYONE THERE!
    MY HEART GOES OUT FOT THEM ALL, EVERYONE SHOULD BE PRAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    THANK YOU CINDY P.
    SICERELY, BRINDA DAVIS XoX

    4 years ago

    Freediver O.3 weeks ago | The Australian Federal Courts have ruled that the Japanese whaling company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha is breaking the law by whaling in Australian territory



    Bigger type does not make you correct. Again, the Japs are not whaling in Canberra. Australia does not rule the world either.



    If you want legal advice, ask a lawyer, not a hippy with an agenda to mislead.
    send green star | accepted ..NO GREEN STAR HERE FOR "WHATS HIS FACE" USING THE NASTY TERM, "JAPS!" AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT'S DISCUSTING!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M JUST SAYING IT'S WRONG BEYOND ANY MEANS OF MEASURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    4 years ago

    Nyack C.1 hrs ago | And... you call the Japanese "THE JAPS" one more time, Mr Verbally Abusive, I will have to tell you and everyone in Greenpeace that your MOTHER is ALSO a blubber sucking retard!
    send green star/YOU ARE RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M BEYOND TIRED OF HIM USING THE UGLY, DISCUSTING TERM, "JAPS!" YOU GET A GREEN STAR FOR TELLING HIM OFF ABOUT IT IT IS ABUSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    4 years ago

    Nyack C.1 week ago | Most excellent point you make, Brinda- about cultures having the "tradition" of killing baby girls. Just because a culture holds a believe to be true, does not mean the rest of the world need support it.

    You seemed to have misunderstood me and my intentiontions here, I've been agreing with you on most all you've been saying here! This is all very new to me and maybe I've been misdirecting my messages somehow? ...lol. I did suffer guite a massive stroke and survived, but at times I get confused. I've been very upset about the fool calling the Japanese people, "JAPS!" I agree with you on what you feel on the subject. I have a asian granddaughter and a black grandson and I'm of mixed race as well.
    I'm lost on what I said that you responded to me about? Although I have some idea. I'm sorry for my confustion. Please bare with me if you don't mind, because I'm not a bad person or a dummy...lol. Just confused abit.
    Sincerely, Brinda Davis

    4 years ago

    Nyack C. | I will tell you who is hurting Greenpeace- YOU/THE PEOPLE WHO LIE AND DON'T FACE THE TRUTH. One of Greenpeace campaigns. Do you support it? YES, I SUPPORT GREEN PEACE AND I THINK YOU ARE NO LIAR AND YOU ARE TRUELY A HONEST AND AWESOME PERSON NYACK C. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DO AND ALL GREEN PEACE DOES AS WELL AND HELPING ME OPEN MY EYES WIDE OPEN TO THE TRUTH ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAYBE YOU NEVER MISUNDERSTOOD ME AFTER ALL? I'M LEARNING MORE AND MORE EVERYDAY!
    AND I'M SERIOUSLY OPENED TO LEARN MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    4 years ago

    BY THE WAY NOT YOU I MEAN YOU THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T SUPPORT AND THEY KNOW WHO THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRINDA

    4 years ago

    I dont think your a "dummy', Brinda. And actually, I am very impressed, that even with the all confusion, and your stroke, we communicate very well.

     

    Peace be with you. Green stars to you and your efforts!

    4 years ago

    Greenpeace does NOT support whaling, only you do.

    Then why did I find this on their website?

    http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/resources/faqs/whales

    Greenpeace does not oppose subsistence whaling

    4 years ago

    What ARE are you reading??? Japan is doing nothing BUT commercial whaling!

     

    Does Greenpeace support sustainable whaling?

    Greenpeace is campaigning to end all commercial whaling. Commercial whaling has never been sustainable. It has driven nearly every species of hunted whale close to extinction. This is largely because of their high commercial value and slow growth rates. If you add to this all the other factors affecting the health of our oceans (and whales), there is no question that commercial whaling is not sustainable and must end. Greenpeace does not oppose subsistence whaling by indigenous peoples.We promote whale watching as a sustainable and profitable alternative to whaling.

    4 years ago

    Do you think stockpiling 5600 TONS of whalemeat is "subsistance whaling by indigenous peoples"? lol

     

    I mean, we aren't talking about an Indian tribe that takes one whale for the whole community for the whole year.

     

    By the way, without electricity to keep it frozen, it has gone rotten.

     

    5600 tons of whalemeat nuked. NOT sustainable. Cruel and useless waste of life.

    4 years ago

    I was just pointing out the absurdity of your claim that I am the only one who supports whaling, when even Greenpeace does.

    4 years ago

     

    Hey, look!

     

    It's fish guy.

     

    4 years ago

    I think you need reading glasses, or English lessons!!!!

     

     

    Greenpeace does not oppose subsistence whaling by indigenous peoples.

     

    That doesnt mean it SUPPORTS! LOL... What that means is you wont find GREENPEACE out in the water fighting!!!!

     

     

    This is what it SUPPORTS-

     

    We promote whale watching as a sustainable and profitable alternative to whaling.



    This post was modified from its original form on 28 Mar, 22:53
    4 years ago

    Greenpeace isnt interested in having anyone starve to death- but they ARE interested in helping people form new ways to support themselves. You, Freediver, support whaling and wish it to continue and arent the least bit interested in promoting anything else. THAT is SUPPORT.

     

    Greenpeace does NOT promote or support whaling

    4 years ago

    And so far- the only ABSURITY is you not knowing the difference between

     

    OPPOSITION

    SUPPORT

    PROMOTION

     

    and ETHNIC SLURS of course.

    4 years ago

    THIS is OPPOSITION

     

     

    4 years ago

    thank you.

    4 years ago

    I'M NO DUMMY THANK YOU FOR THAT I HAVE ALOT OF THOUGHTS AND SOUL! I LOVE ALL LIVING BEINGS I'M TOTALLY UPSET AND CONFUSUSED ABOUT THE LACK OF LOVE AND CONCERN FOR OUR WHALES AND WOLVES DEAD POSTED ABOVE I ALMOST PUKED! I DO HAVE A HARD TIME PUTTING WORDS TOGETHER DUE TO MY STROKE, BUT I', FULLY AWARE OF THE SICKNESS GOING ON IN OUR WOERLD THE GREED AND THE CRUELTY MANKIND HAS PUT APPON OUR WILDLIFE IN GENERAL! IT'S SO WIDELY SPREAD AND WAY TO MUCH TO PUT ALL DOWN HERE. I HAVE STARTED MY OWN WILDLIFE PAGE ON FACE BOOK TO COVER EVERYTHING. I DO GET UPSET WHEN I HERE STUPID PEOPLE USING THE WORD "JAPS" I RAN INTO A GUY CALLED HIMSELF "WHITEY POWERS" AND HE USES THE "N" WORD ALOT! IT MAKES ME VERY SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!! i HAD THEM MAKE FUN OF ME BECAUSE OF MY STROKE AND SAY I'M STUPID AND SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT MY FAMIY BECAUSE WE ARE MULIE MIXED BUNCH. I LOVE ANIMALS ANS MOTHER EARTH AND PEOPLE OF ALL COLORS I JUST HAVE HIGH HOPES WE FIND "PEACE" AND A BETTER WAY OF LIVING BEFORE IT'S TO LATE! I'M AFRAID IT MAY BE CLOSE TO BEING TO LATE ALREADY BECAUSE WE ARE DESTRYOING EVERYTHING TO BITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NYACK C. THANK YOU FOR NOT CALLING ME STUPID! I'M DOING MY BEST RECOVERING FROM A MASSIVE STROKE THAT WOULD HAVE TAKEN A BEAR DOWN! I'M PRETTY TOUGH. I'M HERE NOW TRYING TO BE A VOICE FOR THE VOICELESS

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