Weather or not someone identifies themself as Jewish and by which criteria is of lesser importance to me than the Israeli government's actions (and rabid U.S. government's support of them).  It is not Israeli citizenry but government/ military and U.S. support of the atrocities that is the problem.  And many brave Israelis speak out against these crimes, as do Jewish authors who are not Israeli. 

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Jeff Halper is a good man  need more to follow his example. Id even called him hero !

 The Talmud wasnt that meant originally to maintain the Jewish identity in captivity  in Babylone why is it still a source of reading and Insperation today ?

R/e P-O-Z perhaps we would be better dismissing or accepting them by doing a thread to discuss each item and check wether or not there is any actuality past or present. The royal blood line was already claimming itself to be blue and having its parenthood stemming from Abrahim (pboh) long before the overthrow of the Tzar but it would not be unknown for over Zealous Zionists to make a complete Hash of something !

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Tom,

I did a search on Henry Ford...  You are so right!  This guy ruined many people's lives and he was a raving anti-semite.  We can't take his word for granted.

You may very well be right here about the Protocols, and I really want them to be a forgery.  What I find disturbing though is that they seem to coincide so much with what is happening in the world.  I live in Canada, and our country is now obviously under Zionist domination, since Harper was elected anyway.  Our status went from being seen as a peacekeeping country to a warmongering country thanks to the s.o.b.

In Canada, recently a young woman was fined quite a big amount of money for saying publicly something like:  "This is my opinion, and I don't care if it offends the Jews."  I find it very disturbing that in this country, people make racist comments about other races and go unnoticed as long as they don't criticize the Zionist Jews!  Racism is a very ugly thing, but why sanction only the remarks about Zionist Israel?

They have taken over the press and the television networks...  I so want to get out of here!!!!  I don't like being on the warmongers list!

Thanks for your input Tom.  I do value your opinions and will do more research about the infamous Protocols.

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Thanks for all the info there Tom! 

I am not trying to be a smart ass here, but I would like to know where is the proof that the Protocols are a forgery.  Please tell me where I can find any documentation at this effect.

I sure hope you are right though about the Protocols Tom!  I don't want them to be true...  It's a pretty scary document!

Mr Henry Ford said in an interview published in the New York World, on February 17th, 1921, putting the case for Nilus tersely and convincingly:

"The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on.  They are sixteen years old, and they have fitted the world situation up to this time.  They fit in now."

The claim that the Protocols are a forgery is in itself an admission of their genuineness for they never attempt to answer the facts corresponding to the threats which the Protocols contain, and indeed the correspondence between prophecy and fulfillment is too glaring to be set aside or obscured.

This, the Zionist Jews well know and therefore evade.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm

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Great website Shane!  Thank you!

Thank God, not all Jews are Zionists!  I have some good friends who are feeling ashamed of being Jews because of Zionist Israel!  Not all Jews are the same, that's for sure.

Zionists Jews go more by the Babylonian Talmud than by the Torah...  The belief system of Zionist Jews is sick!  I read about their "God" and about their "plan,"  to take over the world by economical conquest...

There are a lot of goodies on that site, a lot of reading too...

A good site to get Zionist documents (of course Zionists call these documents "forgeries" and people blindly believe them!)  is:  http://www.iamthewitness.com/

Look for "The Rosenthal Document", Benjamin H Freedman, ex-zionist, speech at the Willard Hotel NY in 1961, and they even have the infamous document "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion".  The Zionists want us to believe that the Protocols are a forgery but how strange that the Protocols fit exactly what is happening in the world!

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Ouch!!!!  Well, at least we know that we have zionists on this group.  Why would any zionist be on a group called "Free Palestine From Israeli Occupation?"  I signed up because I believe that Occupied Palestine belongs to the Palestinian and that the Zionist-Jews stole it and invaded brutally.  The suffering of the Palestinian people has been going on for the last 60 years and the international community is too busy chanting the mantra:  "Israel Has The Right to Defend Itself", to understand what is really happening.

The Zionists got Palestine in exchange for getting the US as allies of England in WWII.  The English gave them a piece of paper, a promise to give Palestine to the Zionist Jews.  It's called "The Balfour Declaration."

Until 1948, Arabs and Jews had co-exhisted in peace and there were no problems.  "God's Chosen Race!!!"  How arrogant!  Only Zionists can be so arrogant!  No, the zionist regime doesn't get any sympathy from this side...

Uhh...  But Israel has the right to defend itself!!!  Where is that puke bowl?

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You will find that our little snake here is in touch via emails to the neo con lot.This could answer a lot of riddles.I think a wise host would delete this thread ! regardless of past issues !

love peace and solidarity

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Ok lets see what was the meaning of my previous post I wish I can write it very simple and easy to understand.

A christian can be a european, an american an Indian and Iranian an indonesian and and and.......

A Muslim can be a chiness an Indian , an Iranian, a lebenes, a palestinian a syrian an Indonesian  a pakestanian and and and.

A budhist can be a japanese an Indian a tibetian a german  a chinese and and and

A zoroasterian can be an Iranian an Indian, a pakestanian, a european  a canadian an american .........

and all the followers of all kind of religions can live every where and can have any kind of nationality  and none of them  do not claim that they must have a special race and they HAVE TO LIVE IN SPECIAL PLACE.

And now ... how about followers of moses ? Please some one answer me . why they never use the name of their prophet or the name of their religion to present themseleves.They always use the name of a RACE  WHICH THEY CLAIM IT IS VERY DIFFERENT AND VERY SPECIAL AND IT IS CHOOSEN BY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!! And they have to live just in a very special land which is promised 2 million years ago by an ancient inscription !!!!!!!!!!!! and they  are allowed to slaughter all the inhabitants there and settele down on that land !!!!!!!!!!!!

have you ever taught about it at all?perhaps you did but every one afraid to express it because This RACE IS VERY HOLY AND SPECIAL AND IF YOU  WANT TO THINK OR ASK SOME THING ABOUT IT YOU DO A GREAT SIN AND COMMITED A VERY TERRIBLE CRIME.

Please tell me what is the meaning of all of these?doesn't it mean  evident racisme?

 one of the  most important  specifications of God is being Righteous and all the religions believe in to it. why should a righteous God make such a big difference between their creatures?Is such a God Righteous at all?why should God give such superiority to a just one  SPECIAL RACE?????????!!!!!!!!Please notice not a religion .... because they never call themselves with the name of their religion but they always use the name of RACE.

Of course I never generalize all the jews. there are lots of understanding people between them which never believe to such a thing and they like to live in peace with the others.There are lots of thoughtful genus between them who never follow this fictions.and there are lots of peaceful faithful people between them who never think that about superirity of their race.In Iran as I said before we never use the name of the race for followers of moses. we call them Kalimi and itmeans followers of Moses. The followers of Moses can be Iranian, Palestinian, American european,Chinese and......and they can have all kind  of nationalities and they can live in peace every where on this planet because this is their evident right like all the other people from all kind of religions and races and nationalities.

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YOu have asked an interesting question.I have been born into a jewish family in this lifetime.I practice a meditation and spiritual path called sant mat. Am i jewish? is it in the dna? well  lets say if there ever a holocaust again i woul d be considered a jewish woman.i have palestinian  friends in nyc.i have friends from every ethnic background.i respect palestines right to exist and israels right to exist.many mistakes have been made on both sides. to coexist is essential . working with peace groups towards this  is essential.

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I am not Jewish. My parents were Oklahoma Southern Baptists who converted to the Episcopal church when I was a baby. I can only answer the question of "who is a Jew" based on Jewish people I have known, and there have been many.

I'll just mention a few: I did not know Ernest Mandel well, but I met him and talked with him a number of times before he died in 1995. He was one of the greatest economists of the 20th century, in my opinion, and he was well known for that. What is not well known is that he was a Holocaust survivor. His best friend and mentor Avram Leon, the author of a remarkable historical book called The Jewish Question, was sent to Auschwitz, where he was gassed. Ernest was a young teenager during World War II and was physically big and strong, so the Nazis kept him alive for slave labor. Ernest was passionately anti-Zionist and spoke out consistently against Israel throughout his life to the very end.

George Breitman was a socialist activist and journalist from Newark, New Jersey. I knew him very well in his last years (he died in 1986 at the age of 70). In the early 1960s he was one of the first white people to recognize the importance of what Malcolm X was saying and that Malcolm was not some crazy racist out to kill white people. George was one of the first socialists of his generation to understand that the radicalizing young people of my generation in the 1960s had something new and important to say and that we should be listened to. Like Ernest Mandel, George was pro-Arab through and through. He was never ashamed of being Jewish, but for him being Jewish was about fighting for justice for the poor and oppressed, and that's something he did every day of his life.

The muralist Mike Alewitz is a friend from my own generation. He was a freshman at Kent State in 1970 when the National Guard fired on the antiwar rally, killing four of his fellow students. Mike has also worked for peace and justice his entire life. Three years ago he went to the Occupied Territories to participate in civil disobedience actions to stop the demolition of Palestinian Arabs' homes. He painted a mural in a house that they were able to rebuild (illegally) and use as a Palestinian community center.

I could name many others whom I am proud to have known over the years.

You can't equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. The Jews I know who hold to their traditional ethical principles and reject Zionism are not at all ashamed of their Jewish traditions. They're proud of them. They're proud of their Yiddish language, their culture, and especially their leadership in the struggles for peace and justice over the years.

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Until all races and cultural groups learn to walk the quill of the feather (the middle road) and strive for harmony and peace, we will continue to have blood shed and conflict. We must peacefully respect each others differences without attempts to control or manipulate those different from ourselves. This is to say that we should look at our brothers and sisters and except them for who they are, our land is their land, what's mine is yours, if one of us eats peanut butter and jelly....we all eat peanut butter and jelly. So many world wide are so desperately poor, without medical services, and clean water to drink. It is sad to see so many young, innocent civilian children lose their lives over the terrible act of war. We must strive for peace and look out for all needy brothers and sisters on the planet.....our problems and our needs go way beyond our countries, their are many who need help. We must reach out to these people, offer our help and strive for peace.

Earth

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perhaps I should phrase it differently.

Is being Jewish a religion, culture, ethnicity, or a mixture of all?

And why do you call yourself an Israeli and a jew if you are not an Israeli.  Or are you?

Is a Jew tied to the motherland only if he wants, or is he automatically told of the greatness of Israel, etc,?

This is difficult to figure out.

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You Asked what is a jew?In my opinion a racist person who thinks that is choosen by God and think just about his or her material benefits  and just focus on his or her race is a jew.Most of these rasict people even are not religious at all . They are just rasict.In Iran we call the people who belive in Moses prophet ( Kalimi) Because Moses in Islam is Kalimo llah( a person who can talk with God)In our opinion they are Iranians with special religion because they have lived here for more than 2500 years and of course their nationality is Iranian and their religion is Kalimi like other people with another religions ( Zoroasterian Iranians, Christian Iranians and...)

But sionism influence them to think different and encourage them to immigrate to Israel or forget their mother land Iran.It is so sad  of course.

I think being a jew is just being a part of a racism group and party and nothing else. Moses followers have to accept their nationality and stay in their own contries and don't join sionism of Israel.

Mehr 

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I have asked this question in Melting Pot group.

You are welcome to go to Melting Pot to see for yourself.  Leiah did a great job, I think, of explaining it in one of the threads.

Here is a link to the group

http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/meltingpot

I will have to look for the thread for you.

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The reason I started this thread oh so long ago is because every time I accused Israel of anything I would be branded an anti-semite.  Then every time I mentioned that a Jew supported this or that, they would correct me on what a Jew was to fit their purposes. 

But when you press them to tell you what a Jew is, they have no answer.

I know that religion is being used as an excuse here.  But I am afraid that Islam will deteriorate even more in the eyes of the mass media and the public because of the brainwashing against Islam.

No communism, let's blame a religion for our problems.

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BushCo has Created ''Enemies'' to REPLACE ''Communism'' as the EXCUSE to build lethal weapons, teach Hatem and destroy Fragile Creation for gloey of The Empire.

 . http://media.putfile.com/Boston-Legal---Stick-It-speech .

 .

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there may be many people opposed to the occupation of palestine and the bloody israeli response to lebanon. but i think the problem that many are having is believing that there are many opposed to these horrible acts of violence simply because there has not been a huge public cry of outrage against these terrible acts of violence.

when i see more people demanding and conducting peace rallies and screaming for the violence to stop, only then will i believe that there are many who do not agree with the violence.

silence is a form of acceptance.

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Please remember that there are many Jewish people as well as Israeli citizens opposed to the occupation in Palestine, opposed to the agression on Lebanon, and that there are even Jewish people againt zionism.

By the way, in reform Judaism one can convert to Judaism.  Only will the orthodox reject this.

I will not say more now, except that the conflict is not religious as much as religious rhetoric abounds within it.  This is a struggle for power and territory, like most wars are.

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The presidents and priests of invisible borders and magic beliefs TOLD YOU what to worship. TOLD you what to Love and what to Hate.

Can a Human Being claim to have ever Lived, if they have lived to serve, and service, the presidents and priests, at the expense of Life ?

It is not your mothers fault either. Parents can only teach a WISDOM that they were told about , or have discovered IN SPITE of the local presidents and priests.

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You would know EXACTLY!!!

Seriously, though...

I have no use for this nonsense about if you're against Israel you're against Jews. I have known so many Jewish people, people, even Holocaust survivors and people who lost many family members in the Holocaust, who REJECT Zionism and racism completely. What Israel is doing is a denial of every ethical principle of the Jewish religion and of Jewish tradition, and don't for a minute think that there aren't hundreds of Jews who recognize it. I know, because so many of them are my friends and comrades in the struggle.

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I agree.  But what makes his mother Jewish?

What is Jewish?

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http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=4293&pst=455521

Catherine, I know you are better at expressing yourself than i am to these losers.  But this kind of attack is clearly nonsensical, insensitive, and totally uncalled for.

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I justvreread Robin's post and realised that she thinks she is talking from experience.  Apparently she has some job that gives her information about all these things.  And of course, because she says this, we're supoposed to believe her.

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what the hell are you talking about? 

look, you can post something relevant or just get the hell out of this discussion group.  I will leave your post so that people can see how idiotic it is. 

For the rest of you, Robin is upset about my view of "illegal" immigration in the US by Mexicans (she thinks they are rapists and murderers and are taking away her hard-earned tax money) on another group, so she is stalking me.

Are there any rules against that on Care2?

Robin, you have been warned to saty on-topic and make good posts.

As you can see, i have clearly stated the position of this group merely by the group's name.  I have had many people of Palestinian and Arab descent thank me for starting the group. they don't think it's a waste of time, so stop thinking for them.

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We will never get an answer form a Jew to this question because they think i am trying to bait them and they know they will be caught in a corner.

I wish there were a term we can call people that was as special as anti-semitic.  People against me can only be anti-greek or anti-canadian.  ST is right, the worse we can be is anti-Jewish, which is regrettable, of course.  I know I am not anti-Jewish, for that denotes that i am against a whole group of people.  I am anti-Israeli government though, at least how it's been since the latest reincarnation of the Israeli state.  I was going to say Jewish state, since most Jews call it that, but I didn't.

Remember guys, there are eyes watching us and taking notes, copying, pasting, etc., so they can report us to care2 management.

Good to have you back Catherine.  I was getting worried about both my lovely co-hosts.

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I don't think this is a kind of group in which persons who self-identify as Jews will see much benefit discussing the issue of Jewish identity.

To be fair, whenever any person labels him- or herself as "something", he or she is also labeling him- or herself as "not-something-else".  That is a two-edged sword in that it potentially creates both community and enmity.  All religious and/or ethnic labels have these characteristics.  Perhaps the biggest difference between Jewish identity and other identities is that the Jewish claim to be "G_d's Chosen People" (not an unusual kind of claim) is repeated in Christian scripture and has gone beyond the control of Jews themselves.  This has accentuated the volatility of the benefits and detriments of Jewish identity.

For a person who does not identify as Jewish, the various explanations of what it is to be Jewish can be frustrating, and especially when the charge of "anti-Semitic" (more properly anti-Jewish) is made.  A person can claim, on one occasion, "I'm ethnically Jewish, but I'm an athiest," and on another occasion, "A person is Jewish because of religion, not because of ethnicity," and on another occasion, "I identify with Jewish heritage, but I'm not religious."  Meanwhile, a person who is critical of any aspect of Jewish religion, ethnicity, or heritage can be labeled "anti-Semitic".

By way of contrast, using myself as an example, if I want to label my ethnicity, based on my maternal line, I would have to say "German" because, as far as I can tell, my earliest maternal ancestor whom I can identify was a German-speaker.  If I wanted to speak of my religion, however, I could not answer that I am German.  I would have to carefully explain that I come from a Christian background, but that I personally avoid religious labels.  And if I wanted to speak of my heritage, I again could not claim to be German, as that is from the distant past and I know that I am from a blend of European and Native American heritages.  Perhaps I could most honestly say that I am Ohioan.

If I claim to be one of God's Chosen People because I am Christian, I will be subject to the same criticism as are Jews who claim to be G_d's Chosen People.  If I claim to have a right to live in German-speaking lands because my great-great-great-great-grandmother was German, I will be laughed at.  If I claim to be somethinig special because that grandmother was German, I will be called a Nazi.

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by the israeli government on the palestinian people in the major media venues, even in the arab states, is because of the u.s. involvement where many of the arab states receives u.s. dollars and military might. so if these countries actually vehemently speak out against the violence, these countries might see their funding disappear, which is what had happened to many nations who refused to joing the so-called "coalition of the willing". (puke)

what little violence you see in the media (an old man getting kicked, a child getting shot) you do not hear the correct numbers. the great campaign of disinformation is extremely disproportional in the amount of palestinians who are actually harmed in comparison to the amount of jewish people who are harmed, so the reader, viewer or listener can determine that the majority of the people who are harmed in these conflicts are israeli and come to the natural conclusion that the palestinians are nothing but a bunch of animals who love to kill innocent people.

this is so very far from the truth. there are so many palestinian people who are killed every day.

and the way the israeli mourners are portrayed in the media it is as if they are the only who are harmed by the bloodshed.

we see virtually nothing of the heartbreak the palestinian people are experiencing on a daily basis from the missiles being shot into palestinian areas. we see nothing of the beatings that the israeli settlers give to the palestinian shepherds. we hear nothing of the starving of the palestinian people within the concentration camp.

we do not hear the truth.

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It seems like the 5 prominent Jews i had addressed this question to don't want to answer, probably because they are not in their safe territory and because they will be attacked with logic and common sense and truth against their heartfelt and ill-fated beliefs.

Thank you for joining and hope to have you get an answer to this question somehow.

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What is a Jew?  The reason I am asking is because I cannot get a straight answer as to who is a Jew, getting the rather mundane "whoever dsays they are".  Then when I declared myself a Jew, i was mocked.

So please, can a Jew tell me who is a Jew?  Can they also tell me why there is denial of Jews outside of Israel helping the Israeli cause?  Greeks outside of Greece help the Greek cause.  So what?  Just admit it.  If you help poor Jewish families through Combined Jewish Appeal, then power to you.  But if you help finance killing, shame on you.

Can someone please please please clarify?

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