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Kangaroos are at risk of becoming an endangered species.
7 years ago
Kangaroos face imminent danger if a California bill becomes law. Senate Bill 880 would legalize kangaroo skin sales in California, where they have been banned since 1970. Whilst the government would have us believe kangaroos are a pest and shooting a few million a year will not harm them, if this bill is passed, many many more will be killed for their fur and with dwindling populations and many species already extinct, the kangaroo is in danger. Having watched a video shot by IFAW, the brutality of the hunt is shocking. Laws are there to ensure that kangaroos are killed humanely, however they are vague and not enforced. As kangaroos are hunted at night there is no way to enforce these laws, also many species on the endangered list are killed. Many signatures are needed to stop the Californian SB 880 from being passed. Please sign the following petition to stop the Senate Bill 880 from being passed:- http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/ca_kanga
7 years ago
Woohoo! this is great news. Hope the bill passes. Kangaroos are in no danger of extinction and it's time the drugged up hippies in California informed themselves of the facts. http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1168478179/0 http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/sustainability-party.html http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=1141&pst=14926 This post was modified from its original form on 16 May, 1:02
cut it out
7 years ago
i hope it passes too. i don't know if they're in danger, i just don't support the low-consciousness act of killing animals to wear...or to eat. "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
strike that...
7 years ago
i meant, i hope it DOESN'T pass...
7 years ago
Dave why would you start by supporting a ban on free range products? This is more likely to just make the situation worse, as you are creating alws that favour factory farming.
Kangaroos
7 years ago
Any animal killed for use of their skins is outrageous!!!!! STOP IT no matter if they are or will be endangered or not should not matter, they are all creatures of this planet and WE as humans need to protect ALL of them. To say that because they are not endangered its ok is just plain stupidity on our parts and we need to wise up!!
7 years ago
They are not just killed for their skins silly. They are also eaten. The meat is delicious and far better for you than beef. You should try it some time.
Ask an Aussie
7 years ago
Freediver is right. There are only two(ish) species of roos hunted for meat/skins. Reds and Greys (although some ppl argue that greys are 2 spp ie western and eastern) There are no endangered "Kangaroos". ALL OF the endangered species of Macropods (Kangaroo like marsupials) are too small for commercial use, too rare to hunt and generally protected. Overseas commentators should educate themselves on the ecology of Kangaroos before posting uneducated drivel. Find out what these animals are before you form an opinion either way. Wallabies, Wallaroos, Bettongs, Pottoroos, Quokkas, Pademelons, Bilbies. Don't limit yourself to Wikipedia - DO SERIOUS RESEARCH Then when you've found that almost ALL the endangered species are in that state due mainly to FOXES and CATS (domestic as well as escaped/feral) you may change your focus. We need MONEY spent on saving the endangered species NOT bitching about eating/skinning a few overpopulated species. LEARN about large roo breeding habits - understand that when conditions are good a Mature doe can be permanently pregnant twice. (one in utero - one in pouch) and have a joey at foot. COMPARE that with the fact that Potoroos for instance generally only breed once a year (in spring) and their offspring (at the size of a rat) are prime catfood. Couple that with continually reduced habitat, continual pedation by CATS, FOXES and domestic dogs and you will see that not all roos are equal. If you eat BEEF and wear leather shoes then you are being at least as evil/cruel/unjust as a Kangaroo eater/skinner. At least Roos get to spend the major part of their life in their natural environment, unlike feed-lot-cattle or even free range chickens. The only cruel thing about hunting roos is that occasionally one bullet doesn't do the job quickly enough. All the same if I were a meat animal I'd rather spend 5 years free to roam with a somewhat messy end, than 5 years in a feedlot or fenced paddock even with a quick clean end. The bottom line is that unless you are a vegan and keep no carnivorous pets (dogs and especially cats) you are being incredibly hypocritical in condemning roo harvesting. AND that also means you should never click the care2 "pets in need" button.
7 years ago
Perhaps they are not at risk for becoming an endangered species as of yet, but even not, I am surprised that I am reading these replies on Care2. Killing any animal whether you eat meat or not is not the moral thing to do. We don't need skins anymore because we have all kinds of materials for clothing, warmth, and decoration. If you are still barbaric enough to want to display them in your home your out of it. Overpopulations have been dealt with in many new and humane ways. Using a gun is not the wisest way to solve your problems. No, I don't live in Australia, but I always believed Aussie's were more humane than this.
mmmm...
7 years ago
hahahaha, "I always believed Aussie's were more humane than this" don't kid yourself, australia has more than it's fair share of inhumane idiots, (if it ain't already obvious.) just like any place that has humans. kangaroos are a long way off from being endangered. the main problems are that since "european settlement" less and less native aborigines have been hunting kangaroos (after all, we have to keep tham down since we took over, that's what you do when you take over any other populated area)(although or course there are more pet food companies that use kangaroo meat now) and more and more land has been turned into farmland (1. destroying their usual natural habitat that regulated their reproduction naturally (animals reproduce less when there is less available food (opposite to humans, makes you think)) and 2. providing 1000s of acres of farms ("mcdonalds for animals") thus reproducing more in those places with more food available) the best thing is just always ignore the idiots and do what you think is right but always remember, all of these problems are man made in their origins.
7 years ago
"Killing any animal whether you eat meat or not is not the moral thing to do." It is not immoral either.
7 years ago
Petition to remove California's ban on kangaroo meat: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/510307417 More info on the pending legislation: http://ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/kangaroo-law.html The Sustainability Party of Australia supports this petition: http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/sustainability-party.html More information, discussion: http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1179303108 The Kangaroo and the Usurper: http://www.ozpolitic.com/funny/kangaroo-usurper.html
7 years ago
AUSTRALIAN WILDLIFE PROTECTION SOCIETY The Kangaroo especially, in this country ,is under enormous pressure from both the commercial kangaroo industry and the rural sector and it needs as much support as it can get for its very survival in its home land. "every person can make a diffrence to global conservation....simply do buy or eat kangaroo products. Wildlife EXPERT - Steve Irwin.
Too late folks
7 years ago
California lifted the ban yesterday I believe.
7 years ago
Correct me if I'm wrong - but I thought that was on kangaroo skins.
Kangaroo skins
7 years ago
Are we going to be NEXT????? Will we be running from the skinners. We don't have any natural predators, so who's to say-we may be fair game soon!!!
7 years ago
We are already
7 years ago
The bill has passed in the Senate http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1179303108/2#2
Kangaroos in California
7 years ago
Kangaroos, California, and Australia Please note that Australia has a VERY different environment from the rest of the world. Europeans who have just got here are just finding that out. Please think about that before you jump feet first into issues like this A far as petitions to stop Kangaroo meat and fur being exported I have this to say:- Kangaroos do far less damage to the Ecology and Green House Gasses of Australia than sheep cattle and goats.(and feral pigs, horses and Camels) Any threatened wallaby varieties are protected. The only variety that has become extinct, since European settlement, that I know of is Caloprymnus campestris, or the Desert Rat-kangaroo include the Plains Rat-kangaroo, Bluff-nosed Rat-kangaroo or olacunta. This was probably due to the introduction of feral cats and foxes as there is very little to harvest in the way of meat and/or fur. Many Australian animals are threatened by extinction and this is what this forum should be addressing rather than this miss-informed, hysterical rant on a silly Californian Law.. Those Kangaroos used for meat are farmed or in plaque proportions. Kangaroos have a unique reproductive system.(Developed no doubt in response to Australia's sea-saw climate from drought to plenty) Kangaroos can carry three fertilised ovum at any one time. They only let the fetus (S) develop when the season allows. Thus they can survive long droughts, bush fires and poor seasons. A decimated population can bounce back practically overnight when good conditions return. They have evolved to adapt to the vagaries, drought,fire, flood of the Australian Continent. Kangaroo meat is very lean and much better for you than fatty beef or Lamb. If it is a little undercooked it is tasty and tender. It has been eaten in this country by humans for over 40,000 without any danger of extinction. In fact the people, the land and the kangaroos have evolved in a mutually dependent harmony. Australian farmers should be growing kangaroos for McDonalds not cattle. In fact this could be better for the kangaroos. If they were farmed properly more research would be done on them by departments of agriculture and more kangaroos would be assured feed, rather than starving to death. in bad seasons ( At the moment a bail of lucern hay is $27 because of the drought-Pre -drought the cost was $5.) So eating Kangaroo might be the best way to help the species. More humane slaughtering processes probably should be developed. At the moment farmers are shooting their Cattle and sheep to prevent a more inhumane starving to death. This is taking a huge toll on the psyche of farmers.Big male kangaroo with large body mass are the first to starve. Many farmers have many "wild" areas on their farms for kangaroos. (Many "farms" are much bigger than some American States!) Farmers will shoot kangaroos rather than see them slowly starve to death.They would do this for any animal. many rural properties have semi-wild Roo pets. Many of which they have saved from death. Paying vet bills to tarqualize dart damaged animals and try to save them ( great skill and special diet and 24hour dedication is needed) See some country stories stories here http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bushtelegraph/default.htm especially the story of "Country Viewpoint: Anne Carson, Melbourne" "Good" farmers shoot starving kangaroos; "Bad" farmers won't waste the price of the bullets and let them starve to death. (Some farmers are just surviving on hand-outs at the moment, and they are very proud, independent people who love the land). Big agri-business and corporate money are buying them out for 'a song' at the moment) OR Rather than signing petitions send $27 for a bale of hay so they don't starve to death. There are bones littering the Australian landscape at the moment with our 1in 1,000 year Mother-of-All-Droughts. (recently we got a little rain so this will help every living thing) I would be much happier signing a petition to ban Cows and sheep( and feral pigs, horses, camels, cattle) in Australia who do much damage to our soil and environment Cooking with Kangaroo: http://www.kangaroo-industry.asn.au/recipes/recipe_frame.htm kangaroo meat cuts and recipes Kangaroo Meat - The Basic Cuts. Click on each cut of meat for Kangaroo Recipes. cuts2.gif (131361 bytes) back.gif (3567 bytes) www.aussiegamemeats.com.au/roomeat.htm - 3k - Recipes for Kangaroo. http://www.sgm.com.au/html/recipes_.html Michael In Australia.-- "You can fix all the world's problems in a garden. . . . Most people don't know that" FROM http://www.blog.thesietch.org/wp-content/permaculture.swf -
7 years ago
Thanks for that Michael. Are you interested in joining the Sustainability Party?
who roo
7 years ago
if people insist on killing, skinning, and eating kangaroos, well there are plenty on the sides of our roads after being run over and left to suffer a slow and painful death. but then thats aussies for you. by the way I am australin. It is the human race that needs culling.ok all you rednecks chew the fat over that one.
Rednecks in The kangaroo debate.
7 years ago
Well that's a first; being called a redneck! Followed by threats to "cull" the human race?? So - Who is being a red-neck? How is it we can't have a reasoned rational argument without degenerating to name calling? I always stop and give assistance to any injured animal by the side of the road. I always check dead kangaroo pouches for young I take injured animals to my vet as I have found Wildlife Care Groups ignorant, slow and mostly useless. I would not like to chance road kill as it could be a heath risk. But here are a couple of books for those who do:- Flattened Fauna: A Field Guide to Common Animals of Roads, Streets, and Highways (Paperback) by Roger M. Knutson (Author) The Original Road Kill Cookbook by Buck Peterson BUY AT;- http://www.amazon.com/Flattened-Fauna-Animals-Streets-Highways/dp/0898151864 Sustainability Party?. MMM "Sustainability is an attempt to provide the best outcomes for the human and natural environments both now and into the indefinite future".-wiki Sounds like a big ask?:)
I am in SHOCK!
7 years ago
I truly cannot believe what I am reading here. I'm thinking some of you are in the wrong place. Care2.com members are ones that CARE about the environment and how animals are treated. Steve Irwin would be rolling over in his grave. I'm sure he's deeply saddened over this travesty. You can argue about whether roos are endangered or not. That is beside the point. It should NEVER be legal to kill ANY animal for it's skin. What kind of a person feels it's necessary to walk around with a dead animal on their back? There are many other feasable alternatives. I won't even buy fake fur. Personally, I say skin the idiots that lobbied for and passed the bill. They are the same kind of idiots that allow the clubbing of seals!!! Dispicable!!!
roadkil
7 years ago
maybe we should skin cook and eat dead humans who die as a result of roadkill. seriously are we really so superior to any creature, are we really any more important. we really have to examine our thoughts and our motives.we do not have possesion of anything in this our lifetime. we own nothing, we are controlled by our own ego. we are on this earth to experience life and to grow as spiritual entities.we are here to go forward with love and compassion and understanding not to stagnate with the thoughts of what can I possess.all creatures and all things created should have equal rights.after all we are all created by the one and only supreme conscientiousness.we are manifestations of thought.we all are supreme conscientiousness. we are one.
7 years ago
"Steve Irwin would be rolling over in his grave." What makes you think Steve Irwin didn't eat kangaroo? He was an Aussie after all. "There are many other feasable alternatives. " No there aren't. Ask Adidas. They wouldn't risk the public backlash if it weren't for the superior quality of the leather of other alternatives. Plus, the meat is eaten. "maybe we should skin cook and eat dead humans who die as a result of roadkill" Many people do, if they know it is fresh, but you basically have to see it get hit to know that and have the skill and facilities to deal with it. A mate of mine hit a pheasant in Germany once. He looked in the rearview mirror to see a car pulling up to get the carcass.
7 years ago
OOOPS - major blunder in my first post!Obviously,the quote from Steve Irwin (RESPECTED wildlife EXPERT) was supposed to read - "Every person can make a difference to global conservation......simply do NOT buy or eat kangaroo products."
7 years ago
Steve Irwin was a businessman an entertainer who made a fortune harassing wild animals. He is hardly a wildlife expert.
7 years ago
I just found a quote from Irwin saying we should expand the beef industry in Australia. No true 'expert' on Australian wildlife would say something so stupid.
oh no..
7 years ago
Well, should I? Shouldn't I? Considered posting to this discussion a few days ago... however since Im an Aussie I thought I should finally step in here. Hello! Im Australian .. Im also Vegan. I don't support Steve Irwin I agree what a two faced entertainer and unfortunate he was so popular in the USA. But .. who am I to say anything about a dead man loved by his wife and children I certainly have no right. However... Vegan? Vegetarian? Animal lover? .. Animal entertainer YES. Animal protector... not really. Now Kangaroos are not ENDANGERED. To clear that up. Being Vegan I don't believe in any farming of animals. HOWEVER I must say I will certainly admit the world isn't going to be Vegan overnight and Australia's farming industry is in trouble. Firstly it's not viable to traditionally farm in Australia... there isn't enough rainfall. Hence why Dr David Sazuki recomended farming a native animal such as the Kangaroo. However I don't support that idea either because who would want to eat our native animal and mascot? Im not sure that will catch on and when it doesn't .. its only going to create more culling of Kangaros in farms especially in drought. The truth is Australian farms currently do not have a good solution. And that will be very painfull for farmers over the next 10 etc years.. I will be the first to admit I have no idea what they are going to do. I think Kangaroo farming is giving people false hopes. Autralians do care, Im a Vegan.. I don't support any animal farming however I do respect the farmers for attempting to come up with new ideas. I don't think it's a success. However I don't see Australians all becoming Vegan overnight.. our culture is very much BBQ every other weekend.. and you get a funny look when you turn up with your vege patties :D So here is hoping we stop ALL animal killing. And here is a prayer for the farmers to find humane solution to their massive farming problems. What am I doing? Im a Vegan and an acivist and try to be an example to my family and friends, that's all anyone can do. Finally I don't believe nasty posts and name calling will help anyone for those who name called Australians red necks? HOW MANY PETITIONS HAVE YOU SIGNED TODAY? .. Act, Live as an example.. don't cause more violence and anger within yourself that just adds to polution and never solved anything. Have a great week everyone!
7 years ago
Australian farmers will not start farming kangaroos in the hope that a market will magically appear, then shoot them all and leave them to rot when it doesn't. The market for roo meat is steadily expanding. Some time soon it will exceed what can be obtained from 'unmanaged' wild stocks. When that happens, the price will start to go up and it will eventually become economical for farmers to reduce cattle numbers so that the roo harvest can increase. This will probably take the form of an agreement between the roo harvest industry and cattle farmers, whereby the roo harvesters pay farmers to reduce stock numbers, or even by out farms completely. This second option may have more merit because as well as boosting roo breeding capacity, it would attract roos from neighbouring areas. There will be no wholesale shift, just a gradual reduction in cattle numbers.
True
7 years ago
I hope your right freediver, if it doesn't work I think our economy will be in serious trouble in the later future. With all the droughts etc. We cant have starving farmers for much longer and suicide rates rising in rural areas.. Im sure the recent surge in rural colleges etc will lead to better Aussie farming.. I found the recent growth in Olive and Saffron farming really interesting.. maybe we can have some further success in areas like those.. I also think further use of our native plants could be interesting. As for Kangaroos over beef totally for that since Beef cattle is so damaging for Australia. As for the creep who mentions "rednecks" LOL they dont exist .. meaning they created a fake profile speciically to call us all Rednecks and "claim" that their an Aussie. (Coward!!!! and not an Aussie) Anyway goodluck to all farmers! hehe.. and goodluck o Vegans!
7 years ago
Over 200,000 kangaroos are killed on Australian roads every year. That's according to insurance company claims. I would guess that a semi trailer with a decent Bull-bar would not really worry about an insurance claim Smaller and perhaps more endangered kangaroos and wallabies would hardly rate a mention. Have you noticed that some strips of road have more dead animals than others? It seems sometimes newer patches of road seem to have more road kill. Is it the smell of the tar? Has anyone researched this? If someone would like to start a petetion Calling on Oz to investigate ways of stopping Kangaroo (and other mammal) carnage on the road,I would be happy to sign it. Perhaps we can develop ways of making wildlife corridors across road- animal "black spots" If anyone would like to start a petetion calling on Australia to kill all introduced animal pests such as feral cats and foxes (who do far more damage to endangered wildlife than anything else). I would be happy to sign it. " "Care2.com members are ones that CARE about the environment and how animals are treated." Caring and being effective in helping wildlife are two different things .People are what they do; not what they "care" about.. See http://abc.net.au/news/indepth/featureitems/s722046.htm "Kangaroos are in record plague proportions, competing with livestock for scarce food throughout drought-stricken rural Australia." "The lambs that didn't make it were virtually left fending for themselves in paddocks picked clean by marauding mobs of starving kangaroos driven across south-west Queensland by the worst drought in these parts in two decades" http://www.abc.net.au/landline/stories/s726991.htm To cull or ``harvest'' kangaroos is to hunt and kill them. It is a method used throughout Australia under government control to manage kangaroo populations and to protect the environment. Only the most abundant species of kangaroo can be hunted, and only by licensed hunters. there are many endangered sped=cies in Australia http://www.education.theage.com.au/pagedetail.asp?intpageid=867&strsection=students&intsectionid=0 It should NEVER be legal to kill ANY animal for it's skin" So what kind of shoes do you wear? Mostly all the animal is used, not just the skin. roadkil What you say is intelligible nonsense. What are you on about? Perhaps those concerned about Australian animal welfare might like to make some contributions to the various wild life charities and those trying to stop the carnage among our rural communities. One farmer takes his own life ever four days in Australia. I don't mean feel-good clicks on cara2; I mean sending real money to those people doing something for wildlife not just empty rhetoric Beyond blue ( for humans) www.BeyondBlue.org.au RSPCA Australia www.rspca.org.au World Wildlife Fund. Contacts: PO Box 528 SYDNEY NSW 2001 (Ph) 02 9281 5515 ... Wetland Care Australia 2007 World Wildlife Fund Australia WWF-Australia. Level 13, 235 Jones St. Ultimo NSW 2007. GPO Box 528 See also http://www.bushheritage.org.au/news_story2.html How is it this discussion is in the Oceans section of Care2? Kangaroos don't swim a lot.
thank you
7 years ago
Thanks for all the great links Michael! Everyone, take some positive action nd donate to the above causes Michael just noted above. Action = Solutions. Talk = Hot Air.
7 years ago
Michael I think there's some petitions in this group that may interest you: http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/feralperil
Kangaroos are at risk of becoming an endangered species.
7 years ago
I am surprised this topic was posted here too and in reading some of the comments, I am sorry it was! In answer to some of your questions and I must say I am dismayed at many comments here:- I am vegan, do not support the fur industry by wearing leather and do not keep meat eating pets, if I did there is vegan food now anyway. I have done my research on kangaroos, this is not merely an emotional plea, it is fact. Kangaroos are under extreme danger of extinction. As far as kangaroo populations go, they are very over rated. The government has issued inflated figures and if you watch the video, protected species are being shot. As kangaroo hunting occurs at night, inevitably shooters are going to mistake which species they are targeting. Also on the video in that link was the inhumane way in which kangaroos are killed. It is barbaric. For any of you who were horrified by the Canadian seal slaughter, this is far worse. We are talking millions of kangaroos here. It is the world's largest wildlife slaughter and Australia is responsible for one of the largest rates of extinction on the planet. Some facts:- *Kangaroos cannot be commercially farmed. *Kangaroos breed well under good conditions. I can't remember the last time we had good conditions in Australia! *Hunters target the largest kangaroos as they bring a better price. If demand grows for kangaroo meat and fur, this will mean decimation for the species. *If a mother kangaroo is shot, her joey will be trodden on or bashed against the side of a truck. *If she has an 'at foot' joey, it will be set free to be hunted by foxes or to perish. *California has passed the bill in Senate and the main reason they want kangaroo pelts is for Adidas who makes soccer boots out of them. *The UK is horrified at how the kangaroos are slaughtered. Australia does not look good in their eyes. Sir Paul McCartney has teamed up with VIVA (Vegetarians International Voice For Animals) to condemn the slaughter. He said 'There is an urgent need for action to protect kangaroos from a barbaric industry which slaughters them for meat and leather. Please do all you can to help end this shameful massacre.' *Politicians who want the votes of rural land holders, scientists who want scarce funding and notoriety, and wildlife authorities who want to hold onto their jobs, have long since forfeited whatever shred of moral and ethical integrity that they may have once had in their support of this brutally cruel industry. The Australian people were never asked if they wanted kangaroos to be killed as a renewable resource for commercial gain. *The Federal government in 2006 tells there are 26 million kangaroos in Australia. However, noone can find them. In August 2006 there are only less than 6 fulltime professional kangaroo shooters in NSW. All the rest have dropped out because they can't find enough kangaroos to shoot. However at this time there are 2000 licensed partime shooters, who just shoot at the weekends for fun and a few dollars. *Kangaroo meat carries high burdens of internal abdominal and muscular parasites. Kangaroo meat has to be undercooked because it is tough and inedible when cooked thoroughly. This gives rise to more chance of a wide range of illnesses, some life threatening. Here is PETA's latest petition to stop the kangaroo slaughter... http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/kanga_residents_assembly?rk=81e37911xgfGE Let's look towards a future where the grain grown is used to feed starving nations. This is our only chance of survival. As water becomes scarcer, we must use it more wisely and a vegetarian world is the only solution. That is my dream, no animals need suffer, health will improve and everyone can eat a 'guilt free diet'.
7 years ago
"Kangaroos are under extreme danger of extinction." No they aren't. That's absurd. There are far more of them now than there was before European settlement. PETA lies. Get over it.
Get over it??
7 years ago
The petition is from PETA... Freediver, the facts come from various sources. If you have nothing positive to contribute, why bother posting. There has been enough mud slung here already. Before you criticise, do some research yourself.
7 years ago
I ahve done my research. "Kangaroos are under extreme danger of extinction." This is a lie. A very absurd lie.
No lies....
7 years ago
Would like to know your source of misinformation. btw fishinghurts.com
Facts..
7 years ago
"It is the world's largest wildlife slaughter and Australia is responsible for one of the largest rates of extinction on the planet." I AM a VEGAN, I DO absolutley support PETA, however PLEASE before you post everywhere READ PETA PROPERLY,,, PETA wrote: "ARE AT RISK." and "THEY ARE IN DANGER." PETA NEVER posted are at risk of being endangered. They have not written AUSTRALIA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LARGEST RATES OF EXTINCTION? Please write what they actually have written and not a wild opinion. Misinformation gives every Vegan animal activist a bad name, and who are you to go bad mouthing Australia without ALL the facts? If you care about Kangaroos, please post this in the appropriate category and why are you having petty arguements with people who can't tell you... OK we will stop culling Kangaroos? Please do something usefull and write a letter to someone in power and stop spreading hate and lies. This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jun, 1:00
Useless..
7 years ago
I really feel for what your trying to do here, I also don't wish to see kangaroos culled or sold or farmed or used in farms, tortured, stomped on etc. All I am trying to say is your stirring people up because your bending and stretching the truth. If you stick with the facts and stop stepping into wild statements like endangered and Australia is the largest nation sending animals extict (come on that would have to be a toss up between what USA has already done and China.) Not to mention the mass culling of people USA does. Our arguement is strong enough without making up wild statements. I REALISE your passionate about the subject, I too have gone to extremes (and learned my lesson) that all we need to do is state the facts in the rights place and open the eyes of the right people. I don't see how stating half truths in Oceana is getting anyone anywhere. Thats all I am going to say in this matter goodluck to all of you I don't see this thread has anything more to offer and have a great week everyone!
LOL
7 years ago
LOOOOOOOOOL... and WHY I feel like I should step in and attempt to be an Ombudsman I haven't a clue! LOL.. Maybe that says something about me :( I do care about every person on care2 and I just don't feel like our efforts to change the world need to insult nor offend anyone that's all.
7 years ago
Thanks for trying Juliaanna, I know whatever I say won't make any difference. Maybe coming from you it might make her at least reconsider how trustworthy her sources are. Note that even the way PETA put it is 'stretching the truth.' This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jun, 1:25
hmm
7 years ago
Well, I know it won't make any difference because .. in our eyes all killing is wrong.. however I was only trying to point out that stretched truths can be offensive to anyone, even to me. Truthfully its not going to work pointing out to farmers etc.. "killing is wrong" .. and that's what I am trying to say is that if you have a point .. make a change in a way that will make something happen, I don't like being offended even when it's in my own cause. (Irony). If ANYONE wants to change the farming and meat industry.. then EVERYONE needs to make efforts towards community and people.. and making enemies doesn't make change. People FARM ANIMALS BECAUSE THERE ARE CONSUMERS.. take out the consumers andyou wouldn't have farm animals. Telling farmers to stop? When they are starving and suiciding.. Is useless. I care deeply about Australia's overall future, I even studied a Ba in Economics PURELY AUSTRALIAN ecomomics and Asia. Soley so I can one day have my own company and gear it in the right direction to make a change. There are so many issues with Australian farming because it's the backbone of AUstralia's economy. If you want to see a real change in animal rights and stop farming in Australia we need to CHANGE ALL CHANGE, we need to create support an marketing for Vegans and Vegetarians.. the entire CULTURE would need to change, that's not going to happen overnight. Im not in this for a day Im in this for LIFE. And Im mature enough to know that facts serious facts can slowly make a change. Offensive irresponsible posts ONLY BUILD WALLS. Which you must understand everyone.. that whatever offensive thing you wish to say here which is not ALL ENTIRELY tue HURTS OUR CREDIBILITY. Because take an example.. lets say Michael or anyone else here is a CEO of a farming chain. (Who knows!) But lets just say he is for now. Now Im in Australia and I need to have a serious meeting with him and try to negotiate some REAL changes. He will ALREADY be prejudice against me because of someone LIKE MYSELF has already gone to the extreme and bent the truth. HENCE IM NOT TRUSTWORTHY. This is JUST ONE of the ways stretching the truth can be VERY VERY damaging. I know this wont mean ANYTHING TO YOU but this is very serious.
Correct actions...
7 years ago
For anyone who does wish to stop kangaroo farming there are a number of ways you can make a change. Firstly... I sure hope you are Vegan otherwise (little hypocrytical) If your not Vegan, become VEGAN NOW. (And yourve made a huge difference..) You can start by going to http://www.goveg.com If your still concerned by the kangaroos culling pleas make donations to the people who help them Like Australias http://www.rspca.org.au http://www.hsi.org.au http://www.animalactive.org http://www.aaps.org.au http://www.acfonline.org.au http://www.savethekoala.com http://www.animalrights.org.au http://www.animalliberation.com.au hhtp://www.ifaw.org ALL the above not for profit organizations in Australia NEED our help. You can donate, volunteer, sign petitions and send emails and letters to the right people. ONE HUGE WAY to help is to become VEGAN, and encourage others to be VEGAN. (Although yes Annie I know your already Vegan, Thank you for that).
My last word on this matter....
7 years ago
The facts I have written here come from many sources, not just PETA. If you read correctly, Australia is ONE of the worst offenders when it comes to extinction of species. To comment please read posts fully. I am not here to misinform anyone, just to let people know what is going on and hopefully impel people to sign the petition and hopefully stop kangaroos being slaughtered. I guess another major concern are the methods used to cull kangaroos. It is so cruel, no wonder we have a bad name in the UK. As for my dream for the world, I guess we are all allowed to dream. What a wonderful world it would be. Peace all.
HELP PEOPLE CHANGE.
7 years ago
I don't know if anyone is aware but there is HUGE RURAL POVERTY in Australia. There is also SERIOUS rates of RURAL suicides. UNLIKE the rest of the world OUR FARMING IS NOT SUBSIDISED. Meaning, our farmers get NO HELP and NO MONEY from the government UNLIKE USA AND EU. See, your governments actually have a HUGE SHARE in your farming industry. Ours is going to be easier to change and HELP OUR STARVING RURAL COMMUNITY. Im very serious about this if anyone is interestd I can pull up many rural suicide statstics and find your the real wage they have every year. Its a nightmare we have families living on at time in drought $20 - 50. for a family of 5. (PEOPLE I ACTUALLY KNOW) You can make a difference and donate to: http:www.redcross.org.au Red cross really makes a difference in people's lives. http://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au http://www.beyondblue.org.au Both provide ounselling and depression help for many rural communities suffering. htp://www.flyingdoctors.org Please donate to the Royal Flying Doctors who treat and rescue people in rural Australia... (You didn't really think we have hospitals everywhere did you?) To be honest Australia's rural community has been LEFT to fend for itself whilst cities boom from the PROFITS of farming yet the farmers don't benefit and OFTEN do not get paid what their efforts are worth. http://www.veg-soc.org http://www.wwf.org.au http://www.greenpeace.com.au ALL these people above NEED HELP, they NEED FUNDS. Donate and volunteer. Now BEST OF ALL. IF YOU WANT TO SEE HUGE CHANGE IN AUSTRALIA DONATE TO OUR GREEN POLITICAL PARTY. If our Green political party come in power then I do know we would have some huge changes. http://www.greens.org.au Noone with money ever seems to support the Green party, so if you have money, THEY NEED IT!
7 years ago
Do Vegans wear shoes? or Watch football?:) I think if we were a little more specific when looking at this issue it would help "There are at least sixty-nine species of kangaroo [1], which include wallabies and tree-kangaroos." http://www.conservapedia.com/Kangaroo An impeccable source One even the Sustainability Party would approve of :) So which species is threatened ( . ."at risk of becoming an endangered species") and hunted & killed for meat and/ or fur?
Annie love!
7 years ago
Your such a sweety and an effortless fighter. I totally respect where your coming from. My only point was please get it straight, maybe the sites were a bit extreme as they extremely need immediate help, I do realise your intentions were only the best and I thank you from my heart for this as they do need all our help. All I want is to stop talking/argueing and start to get into the action. The above links if you could spread them around I would LOVE you! Pick and choose the links you feel are worthy (I haven't gone though them I just listed people I know in the past have been helping and always need help. There are so many ways to change Australia and the above links will take you to some REAL people who DO make a difference every day thank you.
LOL
7 years ago
Dont stress Michael :) Vegans have got it together these days.. many fashion providers now suport Vegans.. so you would never know if someone is or not these days. Such as Stella McCartney. Her shoes LOOK like leather but are not. Emm I watch football (is that hypocrytical? .. ) Not sure about that one. But being Vegan is not about sticking to rules like an extreme nutter its about trying your hardest to live as ethically as possible.
Threatened..
7 years ago
KOALAS!!!,.... Yes Koalas are in trouble.. not sure about endangered as yet.. but they always need help. http://www.savethekoala.com They are definately worth donating some money. Correct me if Im wrong but arent Koalas in more trouble than Kangaroos?
OK!
7 years ago
Found out where all the misinformation is coming from and it's NOT PETA! It is http://www.savethekangaroo.com Now, they have tried to use Steve Irwin in this... that wasn't very credible.. however they appear to be a well meaning group. Anyway, as for the Koala Kangaroo debate... Koalas ARE in more danger than the Kangaroos... I guess activists haven't picked up on that as yet. I AM NOT SURE as to this site above save kangaroo site is trustworthy.. so if you wish to SAVE kangaroos donate to http://www.rspca.org.au instead as THIS group actually is INSIDE Australia and is helping kangaroos, this is where people bring them after being hit by a car etc, stuck in a fence and so on.
HOW DARE THEY!
7 years ago
EVERYONE NOTE: http:///www.savethekangaroo.com IS NOT CREDIBLE, THEY ARE IN UK AND USA... TAKING PEOPLES MONEY TO SAVE KANGAROOS BUT DONT HAVE ANYONE IN AUSTRALIA! WARNING! .. If you do WISH to help REAL KANGAROOS SAVE your money and spend it on REAL MEDICAL TREATMENT at http://www.rspca.org.au RSPCA is CREDIBLE, ITS REAL AND ITS IN AUSTRALIA DO NOT DONATE TO THIS save the kangaroo site! Its not even IN AUSTRALIA and ALL the money they are spending is going on advertising and such! HOW FRUSTRATING!
Last post.. LOL
7 years ago
There are some real Wildlife protection people INSIDE Australia. All the above posts ontain very REAL very helpfull organizations and charities in which I have experienced they help real animals and real people. So donate to everyone EXCEPT this save the kangaroo dot com. Wildlife Protection Society Australia: http://www.wpsa.org.au Wildlife Protection Association of Australia: http://www.wildlifeprotectaust.org.au The above two are brilliant also. Now on a final note. Kangaroos are not endangered species. However it wouldnt hurt anyone to help out Australian wildlife on all levels. Make a political change in Australia.. why not donate to the Greens? Make an actual difference. (They need the money .. we Greens don't generally have any money lol) http://www.greens.org.au
Donate...
7 years ago
Just in case you missed that: DONATE... to CHANGE Australia's political future. http://www.greens.org.au Make a real difference.. VOTE for me! .. hehehe.. JUST JOKING!!! IM NOT a candidate LOL! I just know they always need money.. :) .. This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jun, 3:02
LOL
7 years ago
To make us all feel REALY GUILTY... The GREENS have only had 5 ... count them 5 donations in the last 12 months over the amount of $1500 and all beneath $7000 oops one was $28,000 ... however we are talking about changing a country here we need more. http://greens.org.au/action/donate/list.php LOL... how are they ever meant to make a difference when we have our government in power is spending millions on campaigns and marketing?! LOL. Donate now, I don't mind who you are.. just donate. Perhaps Sir Paul McCartney has some spare change? For the kangaroos? This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jun, 3:07 This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jun, 3:09
Oh brother....
7 years ago
Yes, koalas are in urgent need of our help. They are not facing imminent mass slaughter and this is getting way off topic. Check out Animal Liberation Victoria and then you will never recommend anyone donate to the RSPCA ever again. Take care....
Kanagoos
7 years ago
The greens are a good cause but probably, mostly too left wing for the sustainability party. Animals need habitat http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Daintree-land-saved-rainforest-charity/2007/06/06/1181089144894.html http://www.rainforestrescue.org.au/ A recent introduction wet bad when endangered animals released into the wild were killed by cats and foxes I think it would be good if Australians were allowed to keep Australian animals as pets. instead of cats and dogs. Indonesia returns 'roos to rainforest CNN International - 4 Jun 2007 The animals being released were born to six males and females cared for by the Cikananga Animal Rescue Center on West Java where they have been reared to ... Indonesia returns roos to rainforest Radio Australia Rare kangaroos introduced to new habitat Independent Online -- michael (always peccable, sometimes sapient) "You can fix all the world's problems in a garden. . . . Most people don't know that" FROM http://www.blog.thesietch.org/wp-content/permaculture.swf
RSPCA
7 years ago
RSPCA.. and Animal Liberation Victoria. Animal Liberation Victoria states... RSPCA served meat at their fundraiser.. and also that they don't know anything about some horses. Sounds like, 1. Wanting to accept money from anyone (wise). 2. Very bad comunication between a branch of RSPCA and head office. RSPCA is sometimes the ONLY people with medication to HELP REAL ANIMALS IN NEED in RURAL areas so if you don't mind YES I will recomend donating. Lastly, CHANGE things permanently not just one small event, you need to look at the big picture and make REAL improvements OVERALL to GET A CHANGE.. ranting and raving isnt going to get you anything. YOU have not even given people ANY LINKS TO MAKE A DIFFERNCE to crawl back to where you came from will you? Oh sorry, thank you for the petition.. you realy made an effort. This post was modified from its original form on 06 Jun, 3:51
LOL off topic LOL!
7 years ago
LOL, we NEVER went OFF TOPIC. We are WAY ON TOPIC IN FACT, Its called BROAD MINDED. Meaning you MUST look at ALL THE REASONS behind the slaughter and THEN YOU KNOW HOW BEST TO MAKE IT CHANGE. MEANING I FOUND A LONG TERM SOLUTION TO CHANGE SLAUGHTER IN AUSTRALIA ALL YOU DID WAS COMPLAIN.
Change..
7 years ago
If you want to change ANY situation, you must CHANGE some of the important factors of which are creating the ituation you wish to diminish. Meaning.. simply by complaining and requesting you cant create permanent change. The way to change is through all the links people have given us above (including mine). As I said before it's not a tiny situation and it DOES NOT JUST involve kangaroos, there are more serious attachments to this issue an they need to be removed before anyone will stop killing anything. Ever heard of CHANGE the system FROM WITHIN? You want to conquer your enemy, become the enemy. you want to change business. BECOME BUSINESS AND CHANGE IT. You want people to change then help them to change. You cant CHANGE farmers WITHOUT working WITH farmers. New laws? That doesnt FIX the REAL ISSUES. The above charities actually HELP the situation and improve our country LONG TERM. If you want short term be happy with your petition but it isnt making long term improvements.
Kangaroos are under extreme danger of extinction.
7 years ago
"Kangaroos are under extreme danger of extinction." If you believe this then you have not done your research at all. If you think beieving PETA is research then you've been misled. PETA twists the truth immensely. The meat species of Kangaroo are abundant. VERY ABUNDANT. I ran one over just a couple of weeks ago. It was about the fifth one that night that jumped out in front of my car. I could show you 100 in a couple hours any day of the week. Within a couple hours drive of Adelaide, South Australia. What many uninformed people from Overseas also dont realise is that something like 19% of all Australia is National Park. Very few National Parks allow hunting of any sort. I'm sooooooooooo tired of overseas people thinking they know our Aussie wildlife situation better than we do. And I'm sooooooooooooo tired of people like PETA spreading half-truths and lies about it. Duh
more
7 years ago
Gone. B I think I misread you for a non-Aussie. If indeed you are an Aussie I suggest that you get out a bit more. Take a drive in the bush one night and see how "endagered" roos are.
Hmmm, no need to be rude.....
7 years ago
The answer here is not donations, attitudes and laws need to be changed. Write to those who can stop selling kangaroos out:- Here are some email addresses. There are some government officials and companies who sell kangaroo products amongst this list. EandM@ministerial.qld.gov.au, info@environment.nsw.gov.au, info@corroboree.info, info@party-service-noller.de, trendfoods@gmx.net, australia@australiashop.com, las_malvinas_9@hotmail.com, info@kangaroos-land.de, never-never-berlin@web.de, info@foodwatch.de, didier.houssin@sante.gouv.fr, Malcolm.Turnbull.MP@aph.gov.au, ministerial.office@epa.qld.gov.au Animal Liberation Victoria http://www.rspcawatchdog.org/home.htm are trying to get the RSPCA back on track, so they can truthfully say they 'Are for all creatures great and small' which they are not anymore. Please read the entire page, not just the headlines. There is much evidence of an organisation which has lost it's way and rather than slander them, ALV are working very hard to gather support and pursuade the RSPCA to stop thinking about money and focus on animals again. All animals! This will do more than changing the topic to how hard our farmers are doing it, a situation which is of concern to all Australians, and very worthy of another thread!!
Mako...
7 years ago
If the government allows the sale of kangaroos to California, it will spell disaster for kangaroos. As previously stated, the largest roos will be targeted as they will of course bring a better price. This means the largest and strongest. You cannot mess with a species which has evolved over thousands of years. If kangaroos are mercilessly slaughtered yearly, it will spell disaster for all species. The quota set for 2007 is 3,700,000. Add to that the joeys in mother's pouches and the 'at foot' joeys who will die also. Once we start sending furs to California, demand will grow...hence the need for this to be stopped. Endangered roos are mistakenly shot too. See the video in the link for the petition I posted. That was filmed by IFAW. I am not merely stating PETA's statistics here, I have read many publications on the topic.
7 years ago
I repeat my question So which species is threatened ( . ."at risk of becoming an endangered species") and hunted & killed for meat and/ or fur?
Hi Michael
7 years ago
Just a quick post before I go to sleep. The NSW Commercial Kangaroo Harvest Management Plan 2007 - 2011 was declared as an Approved Wildlife Trade Management Plan by the Commonwealth Minister for the Environment and Heritage on 19 December 2006. This approval is valid from 1 January 2007 until 31 December 2011. The management plan relates only to the commercial harvest of red kangaroo, eastern grey kangaroo, western grey kangaroo and wallaroo. Two centuries ago there were 21 species of macropod in NSW now there are only 15. The smallest species, and those with special habitat requirements and restricted ranges, have suffered the most both from predators and from the destruction of their habitats. A number of species of kangaroo and wallaby are listed as threatened in NSW. This will give you an idea of some species which are at risk at the present time:- # Help us find brush-tailed rock-wallabies # Black-striped wallaby - species profile (PDF - 795KB) # Brush-tailed rock-wallaby - draft recovery plan (PDF - 1.1MB) # Yellow-footed rock-wallaby - species profile (PDF - 556KB) # Brush-tailed rock-wallaby (endangered Warrumbungles population) - final recovery plan (PDF - 273KB) # Brush-tailed rock-wallaby (endangered Warrumbungles population) - species profile (PDF - 483KB) # Bridled nailtail wallaby - presumed extinct species listing # Brush-tailed rock wallaby - endangered species listing # Crescent nailtail wallaby - presumed extinct species listing # Eastern hare-wallaby - presumed extinct species listing # Parma wallaby - vulnerable species listing # Red-legged pademelon - vulnerable species listing # Yellow-footed rock-wallaby - endangered species listing # Endangered wallabies benefit from feral goat control in state's north-west # Foxes baited in Yabbra National Park to protect threatened species # Friends of the Brush-tailed Rock Wallaby in Kangaroo Valley need help # Gloucester Area brush-tailed rock wallaby population used as state monitoring site # NPWS warns against keeping native animals as pets # Recovery plan released for Warrumbungles brush-tailed rock-wallabies Will post more information tomorrow. Sorry, am really tired.
More....
7 years ago
Interesting reading against the commercial slaughter of kangaroos:- Australian Conservation Foundation http://www.acfonline.org.au/articles/news.asp?news_id=391&c=7212 MONITORING THE DECLINE OF THE TROPICAL WALLAROO http://www.crca.asn.au/press_releases/2004/2004-7-12.htm How the Government 'counts' kangaroos?? "Sound and legal justification for this massively increased kill quota may be hard to find," said Mr Jones. "If it is not provided, we will have grounds for legal action. Such action taken in 1985 by the Fund for Animals Ltd Australia resulted in a temporary cessation of kangaroo industry activities and a temporary ban on wildlife exports. more... http://www2b.abc.net.au/science/scribblygum-old/posts/topic31181.shtm Having read that, how reliable is the current population 'estimate'? http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/trade-use/wild-harvest/kangaroo/population/2006.html US club puts boots into Skippy... By Peta Hellard in Los Angeles May 31, 2007 http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,21826439-5005401,00.html Extract from that story... Federal Environment Minister Malcolm Turnbull told the Senate that the change in California law would not lead to the deaths of any endangered kangaroo species and that different species were "readily distinguishable". (LIES) Malcolm Turnbull:- email Malcolm at... Malcolm.Turnbull.MP@aph.gov.au I guess the bottom line here is that for many, many years we have been told by the Government that population numbers of kangaroos are stable, however is that true? Kangaroos are inhumanely slaughtered for soccer boots. Is that acceptable? I urge everyone to sign the following petition and to tell the Government that this is NOT ok. http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/kanga_residents_assembly I wish there was a petition from an Australian group, however each one I have contacted has not replied, so I cannot explain why... It is a fact that roos are worth far more for tourism, that is at risk here too.
More facts....
7 years ago
Kangaroo's, commonly called "Roo's" are macropods, meaning they have pouched young. Found all over Australia, most species of Kangaroo are considered vulnerable, with the Forester Kangaroo of Tasmania listed as Endangered and the Crescent Nail-tail Wallaby being extinct. (from the following link) http://www.rhianna.id.au/Facts/roo.html Our ultimate aim is to make the Australian Government realise that the kangaroo their national emblem - is an animal that should be cherished and not blasted off the face of the Earth. By targeting our campaign towards the $70 billion!! (Aus) a year tourism industry, we want the message to come across loud and clear that visitors to Australia want to see the kangaroos in the wild and that potential tourists are horrified to hear that this iconic marsupial is being hunted to the point of extinction. http://www.savethekangaroo.com/tourism/aims.shtml
The Truth about Kangaroos....
7 years ago
If you are interested, here is some more reading material for you.... Australian Wildlife Protection Council http://awpc.org.au/newsite/kangaroos/kangaroos.html The truth about Kangaroos By Antje Struthmann http://www.livexports.com/roo.html Roo numbers at crucial low... http://www.abc.net.au/rural/sa/stories/s1101953.htm The World is Watching... http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php?id=60 Croatia http://www.saveabunny.com/?q=node/2820 California https://secure.lcanimal.org/alert/alert_165.htm American petition against kangaroo slaughter http://utopiaverde.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=176 Care2 - Thank you for this... http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/379703
Yawn
7 years ago
"The management plan relates only to the commercial harvest of red kangaroo, eastern grey kangaroo, western grey kangaroo and wallaroo." Yup and only a blind person could mistake any one of these for a yellow footed rock wallaby. "Kangaroo's, commonly called "Roo's" are macropods, meaning they have pouched young" Nope. Macropod means "Bigfoot". Marsupial mean pouched young. Echidnas and Platypus are also marsupials. "Two centuries ago there were 21 species of macropod in NSW now there are only 15" Maybe - but those 6 disappeared species were not hunted by regulated hunters. They are smaller species that have been wiped out/displaced by agriculture and foxes and cats. (For the uneducated, these specia vary in size from a bit bigger than a rat to about twice the size of a rabbit.) Good places to actually see a number of these "endangered" kangaroos to appreciate the difference between them and the commercial roos are: Warrawong Sanctuary SA (http://www.warrawong.com/) Wildlife Conservancy Sanctuaries around Au (http://www.australianwildlife.org) Little River VIC (http://www.littleriverearthsanctuary.com.au/) Waratah Park NSW (home of Skippy) (http://www.waratahpark.com.au/) Yawn Let's let this thread die. The Califoria bill is passed. Finished. End. Now all we're really doing is arguing about meat vs veg and this is NOT the place for that.
Sorry
7 years ago
Although Pltypus and Echidnas do have pouched young they seem to be classified as monotremes rather than marsupials.
7 years ago
Monotremes and marsupials are in different subclasses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monotremes_and_marsupials
There is still time....
7 years ago
Macropods are marsupials belonging to the family Macropodidae, which includes kangaroos, wallabies, tree-kangaroos, pademelons, and several others. Prior to European settlement, there were about 53 species of Macropods. Today, six species have since become extinct. Another 11 species have been greatly reduced in numbers. (source Wikipaedia) Yes, the senate bill passed, however that is not the end of the story. California still has not changed the law banning the importation of kangaroo products.... California plans to overturn roo product ban. The World Today - Monday, 4 June , 2007 12:46:00 Reporter: Kim Landers ELEANOR HALL: For almost four decades California has banned kangaroo products from being imported into the state. But Californian politicians are on the verge of overturning that ban after some intense lobbying by the Australian Government and a large sporting goods company. Animal rights activists though, are vowing to do everything in their power to block the change. As Kim Landers reports. (read full story....) http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s1941740.htm With an election coming up, it is a great time to put pressure on our government to overturn their decision and to continue signing petitions. I would not have done this thread if the decision had been finalised. Send a letter to the Australian Prime Minister:- The Hon John Howard MP Prime Minister Parliament House CANBERRA ACT 2600 Email the The Minister for the Environment and Water Resources, The Hon. Malcolm Turnbull Malcolm.Turnbull.MP@aph.gov.au Here is a list of all members of Parliament, contact your local member as well. http://wopared.aph.gov.au/house/members/memlist.pdf Thank you.
A (lightly) researched case for
7 years ago
FACTS with references (as opposed to unqualified opinions) http://www.kangaroo-industry.asn.au/morinfo/BACKGR1.HTM THOUGHTS with some references 7.55% of Australia is protected through National Parks etc. (http://www.australiannationalparks.com/) There is no commercial kangaroo harvest at all in Victoria. There is no commercial kangaroo harvest at all in Tasmania. A large % of Australia is inaccessible to 4WD and thus shooters. A large % of Australia is privately owned and off limits to shooters. A large % of Australia is privately owned forest and unsuitable for shooting. The only reference to shooting "protected" species that I can find is in Queensland where Western Greys are protected. Western Greys are rare in Queensland but common "in the west". Even if every western in Queensland was killed there would be very minimal impact on the overall status of Western Greys. http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/trade-use/wild-harvest/kangaroo/population/2006.html *note* that the quoted population figures do NOT include the areas where harvesting does not occur. Populations are VERY MUCH HIGHER than these figures. There are 24 species of "threatened" marsupial in NSW http://threatenedspecies.environment.nsw.gov.au/tsprofile/speciestype_list.aspx?type=Marsupials of these 24 only 5 could ever possibly be confused for a roo. But size and environment would make a bullet extremely unlikely Rufous Bettong (approx 5 kilos - personal obs - I have about 8 in my backyard) Black striped Wallaby (approx 20 kilos but prefers thick scrub - wikipedia) Parma Wallaby ( approx 5 kilos - wikipedia) Brush Tailed Rock Wallaby (approx 8 kilos - nsw.gov) Yellow Footed Rcok Wallaby (approx 8 kilos in rocky outcrop terrain - nsw.gov) 75% of people think eating Kangaroo is quite acceptable http://www.kangaroo-industry.asn.au/morinfo/BACKGR1.HTM (thru publicdebate.com) SUMMARY 1) Kangaroos in general are NOT endangered 2) The commercial species of Kangaroo are VERY COMMON with populations in the millions. 3) Rare or protected species of Kangaroo are unlikely to be mistakenly shot. 4) Vast areas of Australia are untouchable by kangaroo hunters. 5) 75% of the population thinks eating Kangaroo is acceptable. The argument against harvesting Kangaroos is entirely driven by emotion as NOT ONE SINGLE perported fact stacks up. The argument is simply "meat vs veg". Meat wins by weight of numbers. I rest my case.
Ok
7 years ago
Have you thought of the implications if the California laws change?? Or do you simply choose to disregard how an added demand for kangaroo pelts will affect current populations. You obviously do not agree with the numerous animal welfare organisations who oppose this legislation. I think I will stick with them and oppose it, this is not veg v meat. This is trying to save the mass, barbaric slaughter of kangaroos and wallabies for soccer boots!!
Wow. It's getting heated
7 years ago
Well said Mako. I too have some rufous bettongs as well as a potoroo and a couple of Red Necked Wallabies (takes one to keep one?) running around in an acre of feral proof in my backyard. I love 'em, especially when the rufous babies come out. Have you ever seen them come out early - they look like little naked furless rats. We hand feed the potty some nights - he just loves pizza. (but he usually gets healthy stuff like apples and nuts...OK) I had up to sixteen rufous a couple of years ago but a storm dropped a tree on the fence and about 12 got out. I've not seen one outside the fence since. I don't think them hunters got 'em I think the cats did. Gone B. What makes you think the world is going to change just because California can import Roo products? The world economy has 6 billion consumers. California has what? 30 or 40 milllion? I would assume that because kangaroo culls are governed by quota that an 'added demand" would just drive prices up. Elementary high school economics. Supply vs demand. It would probably be great for the Aussie export dollar. By that logic I have more cause to be concerned because my favourite "stickaroo" kangaroo metwurst might become more expensive. Like Mako, I obviously DO NOT agree with numerous "animal welfare organisations " because mostly they are "entirely driven by emotion as NOT ONE SINGLE perported fact stacks up" You, yourself display the emotive inaccuracy of it all when you say "mass, barbaric slaughter of kangaroos and wallabies for soccer boots". "mass" is emotive "barbaric" is only your opinion "slaughter" is emotive "wallabies" is a failure to recognise fact (show us one instance of a wallaby being commercially shot" "soccer boots" is a small proportion of the overall market and nothing new. I can only suggest that you reearch both sides equally, learn to separate fact from fallacy and aloow yourself to filter out the emotive comments of most A libbers. I find that a great guide is the quality of the references. For instance the Kangaroo Industry Association supply references for all it claims. Naturally they select those that favour their position as much as they can. On the other hand Antje Struthman supplies no references at all. Therefore she only provises an opinion. One that is no more valid than either mine or your's or free's or mako's. I can't comment on PETA because I stopped reading their drivel years ago. Cheer up There's plenty of roos. Marcel PS. Kill a cat. Save a roo.
An idea about stoping strvation 7 death.
7 years ago
ON the 3,000 kangaroos outside of canberra who may be shot rather than see them starve Wednesday June 27, 2007, 1:01 pm A glimmer of a plan. It has rained around Canberra. I will talk to country friends,but I think that might mean Winter grass in 6-8 weeks.(1) So what will keep this many Kangaroos alive for that time? without causing problems-find out (2) Local hay and straw is too expensive to buy + it is not fair to compete with farmers. Perhaps a 40' container from NZ? (3.)Need to find out if customs will allow it in? Cartage from Sydney would be over $1,000. Could they eat sugar cane "mulch" from Queensland?(4) (The Ord is another possibility but cartage would be huge.)(5) Cartage would be about $2,000 in diesel alone. Perhaps some big MN trucking company would fill the bill?(6) If we can raise enough money(7) and get the feed to Canberra volunteers would be needed to get it too the roos. I reckon 10-12 with trucks or utes would do. (8) Some space to store the feed would be needed -an empty barn (must be plenty of those) or factory (9) Perhaps the Canberra government would chip in the money they were going to use for the execution for feed? How much are 3,200 bullets and the men to fire them?(9) Perhaps a moratorium on the kill would give a little time to get a workable plan into place OK I will start exploring 1-4. Anyone what to help with the others? Michael Angel (6) Wednesday June 27, 2007, 9:58 pm OK REPORT1 Talked to "Tim" the Kangaroo expert at The Australian Reptile Park Gosford He said they will only eat Lucerne Hay (at about $25 a bale) used to be $5 pre drought He did say however that they can eat Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Broccoli, Pumpkin (NO POTATOES-can't digest the starch) apples pears, dried grass. While they don't feel their roos corn as they can get mouth problems with it, he did say it would be a good anti-starvation food. ARP also feed their kangaroos "Macropod Pellets" from the local produce shop. These I checked and cost (retail) $22.95 for 20K. At the Park the big roos eat about a kilo of food a day. To just keep them alive for the next 8 weeks maybe 250-500g a day might do?? So all that is good news as a lot of this stuff would be available in Canberra. I reckon we are still looking at about a $1 a day per roo at least, by the time you factor in distribution. Thats $3,200 a day. But there is a lot of fruit and vegies thrown out from supermarkets that if there we had enoughenough "Activist Storm Troops" could collect and distribute to the roos. Although you would need to buy some Macropod pellets and some Hay rather then give the roos too rich a diet. Are there any animal groups in Canberra that anyone can contact? My Farmer friend is in hospital so I can't check when grass grows in Canberra. Is there anyone from there who would know? How many $s will the roo shoot cost the Canberra 'State' government? Money that could be spent on food?? Tim did say that as a result of European Land clearing in the last 200 years there are many more Kangaroos in Oz now than before white conquest. He also said "good luck".
Saving 3,200 Kangaroos from starvtion & death
7 years ago
I have just written this letter to Woolworths with a copy of the above posts. Is there a wildlife care group in Canberra /Queenbean who can take this on? If so I will then write to Coles. Outside of Canberra I am told there are 3,200 Kangaroos who may soon starve. Rather than see this happen the ACT Government plans to shoot them. If I can organize it would Woolworths stores in Canberra be prepared to have Kangaroo waste bins for spoiled vegetables that they can eat? These would be collected by volunteers and distributed to the starving kangaroos We probably only need to do this until the spring grasses come maybe 8 weeks. (Although it may not be a bad idea to continue such a scheme-IF it works- for sheep and beef farmers-for their livestock?) Here are some recent posts from the NET on the topic Thank you Michael etc SEE http://www.care2.com/news/member/525884267/403443
Hmmm?
7 years ago
My Kangaroos (red necked wallabies actually) won't eat 'spoiled vegatables". Although they will take the odd apple or carrot and will take stale bread. They don't seem to like anything soft like pears or bananas. Normally they graze grasses and surprisingly gum trees. They won't touch horehound or saltbush. Their absolute favourite is grain. Wheat, barley maize etc. It may be cheaper to buy grain locally (in Canberra) and disperse it. Someone will have to figure out how to keep the birds away from it though. All in all I think we should leave them alone. Australia is a land of "drought and flooding rains". Roos have adapted to cope with that and will mostly survive, especially now that the drought HAS broken. Cheers M
What it takes to save A Kangaroo.
7 years ago
Thaks for you thoughts The vegies would need to be those that Kangaroos could eat. have you seen waht Woolies throws out. Dumper Diving is anew sport in the UK I don't know if the kangaroo problem in Canberra is still current. I cannot find any post-rain up-dates My point was that if people did not want Kangaroos shot this is what nedes to be done. ( I believed it was better to shoot them, prior to the rain, as there was no hope.) If spring grasses come kangaroos only need to be suplemently fed for 8 or so weeks. It would be quite a logistical exercise and would cost money, time and commitment. I wrote to Woolies in the hope that this could keep the costs down and would not compete with farmers for scarce feed. I would be happy to work towards some practical solution. However as yours is the only response I have had so far, it seems to me that Care2 activists are full of empty, hollow, hollier-than-thou, overblown, self-aggrandizing rhetoric. They just like to play "Isn't it Awful" from the moral high-ground. Words are cheap, action is expensive, scary and hard; but with good will solutions to many problems can be found. But I guess there is little real "care" at care2.
What it takes to save A Kangaroo.
7 years ago
Thanks for you thoughts The veggies would need to be those that Kangaroos could eat. have you seen what Woolies throws out. Dumper Diving is anew sport in the UK I don't know if the kangaroo problem in Canberra is still current. I cannot find any post-rain up-dates My point was that if people did not want Kangaroos shot this is what nedes to be done. ( I believed it was better to shoot them, prior to the rain, as there was no hope.) If spring grasses come kangaroos only need to be supplemently fed for 8 or so weeks. It would be quite a logistical exercise and would cost money, time and commitment. I wrote to Woolies in the hope that this could keep the costs down and would not compete with farmers for scarce feed. I would be happy to work towards some practical solution. However as yours is the only response I have had so far, it seems to me that Care2 activists are full of empty, hollow, holier-than-thou, overblown, self-aggrandizing rhetoric. They just like to play "Isn't it Awful" from the moral high-ground. Words are cheap, action is expensive, scary and hard; but with good will solutions to many problems can be found. But I guess there is little real "care" at care2.
drought is still a goer here
7 years ago
here at kingaroy se queensland we will be out of water by november.we have had some rain but not enough. brisbanes watersupply is extremely low also. the coastal areas seem to get the heavy stuff , out here we only get the dregs.
Kangaroos
7 years ago
I think it is disgusting what California is doing. The wearing of dead animal skins is revolting. My great-aunt had a fox stole and every time I saw it when I was young I used to cry. People don't have any respect for human life these days so why would they have any respect for animal life.
7 years ago
Does anyone know when the next 'step' will be with this bill?
Update
7 years ago
California will make their final decision in September whether or not to overturn their ban on the trade of kangaroo products. Australian Wildlife Protection Council http://www.awpc.org.au/newsite/kangaroos/kangaroos.html Wildlife Victoria http://www.wildlifevictoria.org.au/
California plans to overturn roo product ban
7 years ago
A news story about this issue.... http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s1941740.htm Found this whilst looking for up to date information. What the heck are you doing freediver????? You give Aussies a bad name! http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=155&pst=998792&archival Some more arguments against the proposed change in legislation..... http://www.abolitionist-online.com/interview_juliet.gellatley.shtml Please write to the following politicians to let them know of your feelings about the proposed change in legislation and any other concerns you may have. As the campaign hots up between the various political parties in the lead-up to the next federal election at the end of the year, it is of paramount importance that we let both the government and opposition know our environmental concerns. Make sure you ask them to reply specifically to your election requests. The Prime Minister John Howard Leader of the Opposition Kevin Rudd MP Malcolm Turnbull MP, Minister for Environment and Water Resources Peter Garrat MP, Shadow Minister for Climate Change, Environment and Heritage. All C/O Parliament House, Canberra ACT 2600
........
7 years ago
What is the current situation with the kangaroos in Canberra Michael??
7 years ago
No I don't. I represent the majority of Australians. You'd be surprised how many think like I do about these issues. It comes with living on a fragile land. You have to think about practical environmentalism, not feel good tree humping. http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1183443761
LOL
7 years ago
Doesn't appear that way reading the comments you received!! I truly can't believe you did that.... Glad you didn't get many signatures either, think that proves you are wrong. Also, what about the people who did sign the petition and then realised what you are doing and want their signatures removed. Go such a sav mate!
7 years ago
Most of the care2 stuff is from Americans. You can hardly call it a representative cross section, given how the animal libbers like to pretend they own this site. But you're right, it does show it easy it is to fool them and get them to sign their name to anything that makes them feel good, regardless of the real consequences. This post was modified from its original form on 11 Jul, 20:44
SB 880 Senate Bill - Bill Analysis
7 years ago
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/sen/sb_0851-0900/sb_880_cfa_20070702_133839_asm_comm.html Kangaroo populations are addressed in this bill and also the purpose of reversing Californian law which is of great benefit to Adidas! This thread is about stopping the exportation of kangaroo skins which will be used for soccer boots, not meat. The biggest concern is the impact on kangaroos and the inhumane way in which they are killed. 2.6 The Consequences of Commercial Killing Commercial shooting of kangaroos is highly selective with an extreme male bias (80%) and a bias towards the older age classes. This selectively results from the greater commercial attractiveness of the larger kangaroos and the fact that there is a pronounced sexual dimorphism in the three species with males being much larger than females of the same age. Where the species overlap, there is also a bias towards Red kangaroos. Thus commercial shooting is selective and causes substantial population changes. Overall population monitoring is by large scale aerial survey, no information is collected on sex ratios or age classes except indirectly. There are no realistic population models for the three species, thus the consequences of the extreme male and age bias in commercial shooting are unknown. In commercial kangaroo shooting, the proportion of mature females increases and reproductive potential should also rise, so a priori reasoning indicates population growth would ultimately result unless shooting pressures were excessive. If the value of kangaroos continued to rise and demand also continued to increase, shooters would exploit more females. As females are much smaller than males, larger numbers would be needed to supply a set amount of meat, leather, etc. Once mature females are being heavily exploited, kangaroo populations will be directly threatened. This was taken from:- http://www.acfonline.org.au/articles/news.asp?news_id=391&c=123532
Have Your Say.....
7 years ago
http://www.awpc.org.au/newsite/issues/Tough_shoes_to_fill.html Please tell the Californian Government that they must not change the law which was put in place by Ronald Reagan for a reason. http://www.govmail.ca.gov/
lone speech
7 years ago
freediver I speak for myself, I dont speak for you or anybody else on this planet. so dont count me in your so called majority.you sound like a politition. I say leave the roo's alone!
7 years ago
"so dont count me in your so called majority" Well that's the nature of a majority isn't it - it doesn't include everyone. BTW, don't forget the context - I was responding to a claim that I give Aussies a bad name. It's the opposite - I give them a good name, just not with the people who give conservationists a bad name.
Corporations
7 years ago
New to the blog. 24 years environmental consultant. Not looking for standing ovation did it for the money when I was in a bind. Question with out grandsatnding how and why did you all get here?And where do you want to go?
7 years ago
""Any animal killed for use of their skins is outrageous!!!!!"" Humans have been killing animals for their skins and meat for as long as we have been in existence. Why would we stop now? And even if we did stop, what would take the place of leather? Some synthetic material? Then you just have to deal with all the pollution from the factories that mill it out and dye it etc...And just because some people choose to be Vegans, does not mean others who choose to eat meat are doing anything wrong. Plants die for salads, animals die for meat...and hides. All in all though, it seems that this whole "kangaroos are threatened with extinction" ploy is blown out of the water by more than a couple Aussies in this thread. The fox and feral cat issue seems to contribute more to the peril of some species more than anything else. Is that a correct statement? Why are we even discussing this in "Oceana?" This post was modified from its original form on 12 Jul, 20:38
Stuff
7 years ago
heavy metals...mercury....nitrogen....runoff?
majority rules?
7 years ago
Freediver there was never a referendum in this country about culling kangaroos. so how can you claim to be in the majority? did you seek the opinion of the entire population of 20 million to back up your claims? you also claim to give aussies a good name? on what basis could you possibly give to back that one. also I had a look at your petition site, and it appears to me to be a complete farce.what people need and deserve is the complete truth not one persons distorted opinion of it.I salute the divinity WITHIN you freediver.peace to you.
7 years ago
"Freediver there was never a referendum in this country about culling kangaroos. so how can you claim to be in the majority? " Commone sense? Not deluding myself about public opinion, as animal libbers so often do? I agree Craig. Those things could be classified as stuff.
7 years ago
Freediver, let's talk. I need some advice on sharks. Specifically, Bullsharks... This post was modified from its original form on 13 Jul, 19:14
"What is the current situation with the kangaroos in Canberra?
7 years ago
........ Wednesday, 8:06 PM "What is the current situation with the kangaroos in Canberra Michael?? " I don't know; everything has gone VERY quiet. No one really seems to want to feed them. "As of July 5, 2007 - 9:36PM. The Defence Department has shelved indefinitely a plan to ...(cull kangaroos)" Interesting that in " 2004 there was a cull in which 1000 kangaroos were shot around Canberra's Googong area.". They are on a military reserve. the RSPCA has blasted the defense Forces for letting the population get out of hand. It has been VERY cold I doubt if there is much to eat but there is water flowing again I guess if the Army dosn't shoot the Kangaroos they will drop bombs on them?? :)(
canberra kangaroos the latest 12 July 2007
7 years ago
Sorry, I missed this news report Stanhope says Defence obligated to cull roos Posted July 12, 2007 16:39:00 * Map: Belconnen 2617 ACT Chief Minister Jon Stanhope says he will seek legal advice over the Defence Department's decision to back down from plans to cull kangaroos at two of its sites. The Defence Department had been granted licences to shoot roos at Majura and to dart and euthanase the animals at Belconnen, but it deferred the cull, saying it has run out of time. Mr Stanhope met with the RSPCA today. He says the Defence Department has failed to meet its legal obligations by refusing to cull the roos. "I believe there is a case - I'll seek definitive advice on this - but I believe the Department of Defence isn't really in a situation where it can decide whether or not to meet its obligations in relation to the number of kangaroos that can be sustained in those the two areas," he said. http://abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/07/12/1977197.htm?site=canberra
aussie g
7 years ago
in australia there is a methodology to have any endangered species put on the threatened species list -- if you truly believe that eastern greys and red kangaroos are heading for extinction, then it is your responsibility to gather the data required to put in an application to have these species protected under the threatened species act. if i find a species that i consider endangered, then i gather the data to prove it, then i have it listed. any individual in australia, resident or not, can apply. i recommend any aussies that think something is endangered, but not on the threatened species lists,go spend a bit of quality time to gathering the data required to list it -- the application forms have all the questions that need to be answered in the positive to achieve listing status. the roo meat industry here operates from south australia, nsw and queensland, and all those states have legislation to require abortoirs to reject all wallaby species, and all roo species except reds and eastern greys. shooters simply dont waste ammo on any other species. currently over 50% of the skins from this so far sustainable meat industry end up in landfill.
California has legalised kangaroo products
6 years ago
California has legalised kangaroo products, but there has been a media blackout. It is not showing up on google. Please note this news article and help get the word out: http://www.care2.com/news/member/177762681/718827 More info: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1203549919/4#4 http://www.ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/kangaroo-law.html http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1179303108 The successful petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/510307417 Next target: Why we should allow whaling: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1168478179
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