causes & news

Susan D. -
To be fair, your own NFU contradicts what you are saying.

There are certainly sheep raised in Kent. The Romney Marsh, a lowland breed hails from Kent, a very popular breed there and abroad.. According to the NFU there are approximately 1.4 million sheep in the south east - the biggest concentration in the east, Kent and East Sussex. While they recognize the growing of crops by abundunce in that area, they also specify that 7 of every 10 lambs hail from those lowlands. They also specify that with the lessened degree of demand for wool,just 3%, they are bred and sold primarily for meat. The UK is the most abundant area for sheep and account for 1/3 of the Europian Union's sheep meat production.

The idea of sheep being raised for meat and consuming meat from sheep raised should come as no large surprise to the majority of the people in the U.K., specifically not in Kent.
The percentage of lamb consumed in the UK is and has been for the last 10 years in the mid 60's percentile, domestically raised.

That being said, I am not negating your right to the opinion that this project was wrong. I just believe that the arguements should remain valid and as factual as possible on all sides. Too often heated emotion takes the place of real debate. This situation has been skewed in several ways in order to support a cause and evoke emotional responses. While the cause may be in part or wholly justified, proceeding and arguing by the use of misinformation is not.

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I just reda B Chally's other comment-- "angry fear"? No, B, quiet satisfaction, actually.

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B. Chally seems very confused and is very willing it would seem to believe anything she is told so long as it is not told to her by anyone who cares about animals. One of her misunderstandings is to think that Kent is somehow "lamb farming country" -- it is not. Sheep are farmed in places such as Yorkshire, Cumbria and Wales to name but 3. Kent is known as the "garden of England" for good reason -- it is a centre for fruit growing and in particular hop-growing -- hops are used for making beer.

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Susan D, I didn't "claim" to know much more of this story than published in the online newspaper I referred you to. A parent posted his children knew the lamb would be marketed in September as decided in June. I had no more mathematical doubts about that possibility than about why he would post untruth so easy to establish by locals doubting him. I have no idea when the lamb was taken to the school or proof of the actual slaughter other than published. I told you what I based my understanding on, and it wasn't intended to mislead you or anyone else,

I was never confused by who argued about "Meat-or-not" or if proper to allow children to form emotional relationships with animals to be slaughtered. I personally would not have encouraged forming any relationships myself, but I also would have realized it might occur among some delicate children. My understanding is still that the program was devised to teach as many farming techniques as practical to children whose parents knew in advance what happens to farm animals and wanted their children to. I still contend children were told as well, whether each one fully understood or not. The ending of this particular lamb was a logical one, and the possibility shouldn't have shocked anyone paying attention to this program throughout its implementation.

I do find rather ironic your angry fear posted here that children so shocked will become vegetarians -- but they could instead choose farming also common in their area.

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Using same dictionary as before:

person

1. A living human. Often used in combination:
2. An individual of specified character:
3. The composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self.
4. The living body of a human;
5. Physique and general appearance.
6. Physique and general appearance.

people

1. Humans considered as a group or in indefinite numbers:
2. A body of persons living in the same country under one national government; a nationality.
3. A body of persons sharing a common religion, culture, language, or inherited condition of life.
4. Persons with regard to their residence, class, profession, or group:
5. The mass of ordinary persons; the populace.
6. The citizens of a political unit, such as a nation or state; the electorate.
7. Persons subordinate to or loyal to a ruler, superior, or employer;
8. Family, relatives, or ancestors.
9. Informal- Animals or other beings distinct from humans: little people of the woods.

Well, Dan, I've shown you mine; why can't you show me yours? You're still unpublished, right? Hung up in peer review? Big names like Webster, Oxford and Cambridge won't validate your unique definitions? I wonder why. No, Dan, it's not cultural prejudice and bigotry ... just a lot of history against you. Maybe there'll even be recognition some day, posthumously.

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It follows that since sentient nonhumans are moral persons, they are due legal consideration as well. It’s just that society hasn’t advanced to the point of recognizing proper legal consideration of nonhuman beings, just like society in antebellum America hadn’t advanced to the point of proper legal consideration of women and human slaves.

It’s very easy to see others’ cultural prejudice and bigotry. It’s not so easy to see our own. It’s always interested me how we humans like to think we have “free will”, as if we’re somehow unaffected by the prejudices we’ve been taught since childhood and other circumstances of birth. We’ve all been affected by learned prejudices; it’s just that some of us shake them off easier than others.

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Cattle are not people, but cattle are persons.

“People” is a synonym for “humans”. A person is a being or entity who or that is due moral or legal consideration. Sentient nonhuman beings are persons who are due moral consideration. Of course, there’s a centuries-long history of bigotry in the form of extreme speciesism that might cause some less-than-open-minded people to deny the personhood of sentient nonhumans, but bigotry is just what that is. It should be overcome as bigotry against race was overcome.

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If B Chally thinks that parents being told in JUNE about the aim of killing Marcus (as she claims they were) means they knew what would happen to Marcus from the outset, then she cannot do her maths -- Marcus was over 6 months old when he wqas killed, whereas June was only 3 months ago. Therefore, when Marcus was little and being cuddled and bottle fed by the children, that was BEFORE June. Incidentally, B. Chally seems to be confusing the general argument about "Meat-or-not" with the question of whether it is right to allow children to develop an emotional relationship with an animal and then send it to be slaughtered. It is quite likely that the children who have experienced such a shock will become vegetarian.

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If B Chally thinks that parents being told in JUNE about the aim of killing Marcus (as she claims they were) means they knew what would happen to Marcus from the outset, then she cannot do her maths -- Marcus was over 6 months old when he wqas killed, whereas June was only 3 months ago. Therefore, when Marcus was little and being cuddled and bottle fed by the children, that was BEFORE June. Incidentally, B. Chally seems to be confusing the general argument about "Meat-or-not" with the question of whether it is right to allow children to develop an emotional relationship with an animal and then send it to be slaughtered. It is quite likely that the children who have experienced such a shock will become vegetarian.

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Thankyou Barbara for that web address. I watched the video and think she was being very realistic about it, trying to educate the children, not shelter them.

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