interesting

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thanks!

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i think that there is no possible logic behind the mind it can do wonderful things but destroy you at the same time... it almost call me crazy but a kind of spirit thats always with us.... its hard to explain

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Rayed, "our mind leaves a certain kind of foot print on our brain and body." Where is that footprint? Can you or anyone show it to me or should we just believe it is there because you & Depak say it is?

The difference between science & what you are describing is that science takes theories about observed things & proves or disproves them using a scientific method. When you speak of evidentiary evidence you are referring to a philosophy to support justified belief. You may believe anything, there is no proof required and it may or may not be so.

Remember, we are talking about whether the mind is separate from the brain. Please refer me to any of the " lots of scientific books and papers written on that such research". Please note, you & I both said scientific not anecdotal. Nothing Depak writes rates as scientific - he is a philosopher; not a scientist.

I can accept that the brain/mind has much more influence on our bodies than is currently proven by science. I do not see any reason to believe that the mind is separate from the brain or that the brain/mind's capabilities extend beyond the host body. If any of your likeminded brethren ever find any scientific proof or your beliefs then I will be happy to revisit my stance.

Regards,
Bill

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Based on your words "Science is a discipline where a set of theories are set forth & then rigorously tested as to their validity & discarded if found to be improvable."

I would say that is a correct assessment of how it goes. So why can't that be applied to
evidential evidence. Scientific research is done all the time using the science discipline with trial and error methods. Evidence, for example, means if very large bones were found in the ground that, that is evidence that Dinosaurs once roamed the earth. Why can't we take that definition and apply it to the Mind.
Just as Dinosaurs leave foot prints, our Mind as a certain kind of foot print on our brain and body. That could be taken as evidence that there is an energy other than our brain that exists. All we need to do is use our common sense and apply a scientific discipline and research it. Of course, that is already being done and there are lots of scientific books and papers written on that such research.
Regards,
Rayed

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Hi Bill, Welcome back,
No, I would not want you to leave this post, you make it interesting. Plus I think you actually help people think and not take for granted what we may believe without questioning. Also, the more we digest an idea, the clearer it can become to others and possibly bring up more questions to talk about.
Now about common sense, you are right, it does not equate to science. But, it is a little closer to science than something that doesn't make ANY sense. Wouldn't you agree?
So with that in mind, all we can really do here on these forums is talk about our opinions based on our experiences, as I have mentioned before. Regarding the theory about the Earth being flat. Well, that does not make it common sense. It is just a theory that the so called scientists had back then. Common sense is a term defined by a general consensus of people with the same form of experience and expectation of results.
For example, it is common sense that if you put your hand in a fire, you will burn yourself. It is common sense that if you come across a skunk crossing the street, to hurriedly run away. So common sense means common knowledge. A baby does not have common sense so it will put it's had in the fire and it will burn. But it will think twice before doing it again. Common sense does not have to be logical, but it does have to give you an expected result.


continued.....

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Since I ran out of space on my last post let me expand on my mea culpa. I don't mean to offend any of you true believers; just presenting a contrarian view. If your "navel gazing" makes you happy then I am happy for you.

I am expending no passion here; just thought I'd give you folks a chance to see how firmly you hold your convictions. If you would rather I leave this post in peace I will do so.

Regards,
Bill

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Rayed, first let me apologize if I have been impolite. I do speak my mind rather frankly & that can offend some. Now to your last post: common sense does not equate to science. Common sense once held that the earth was flat & was the center of the universe. Logic (if a=b & b=c then a=c) is a sub-set of mathematics. Science is a discipline where a set of theories are set forth & then rigorously tested as to their validity & discarded if found to be improvable Once again you quote Depak & his "growing evidence" of something. I would love to see some of his "evidence". He is talking about anecdotal evidence not scientific evidence. Again, anyone can say anything but that does not make it true.
Johhny F - you ask for an explanation: here is mine: statistical probabilities; how many times have you dreamed something that did NOT happen? Your subconscious is always working & does not know the difference between dreams & reality. If you dream something & later anything remotely similar happens it will register with your subconscious & it will alert you to this. Two people having the same thought: again, probabilities plus subliminal stimulation. You both saw or heard something on a subliminal level which prompted one of you to express a thought & the other to say "I was just thinking the same thing". Proof of nothing! You cannot "prove" any of this.

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I am not trying to force a belief here, but I believe that the Mind can do things that some people can't fathom. Explain how people can dream something and it happens the next day, or how two people can get the same thought at the same time? And yes, I can prove that, It's happened to me. The Mind is unknown, and some things are better off left that way.

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Bill,
What is science if not common sense. Logical thinking. 1+1=2. That is all I am stating. Granted, one must have a little faith in the unseen before trying to prove its existence, which science cannot prove. But, I think it all generates from our own beliefs, which are formed from our life experiences. We then extrapolate what we choose to think about certain subjects that are unfamiliar in our past experiences. We all have our beliefs, whether scientific or not, and as such we try to make a point about it from the excitement of our own perspective, so i apologies for seeming forceful about my belief Bill. It's just that I am excited to express my point of view that I forget to be polite, the same may go for you. Now back to my main subject does the Mind control the Brain.

Going back to what Deepak Chopra so eloquently stated "There is growing evidence that in fact we do share the same mind field. The brain belongs to “me,” but if ideas belong to “us,” then we are participating together in a field, sometimes quite mysteriously."

and also "We insist that the brain must be the source of mind because the brain is a visible object, which is like saying that a radio must be the source of music because it is a visible object from which music emerges."

I have been willing to look inward in my own Mind and be still. During this state, I discovered that there is more to what we see and feel than meet the eye.
Regards,
Rayed

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