Monday November 2, 2009, 7:57 pm
e mail sent
Thanks Cher

Monday November 2, 2009, 7:57 pm
Thanks Cher..

Obscene!!!

Monday November 2, 2009, 8:33 pm
email sent.

Monday November 2, 2009, 9:46 pm
How some people will do anything to stay young and pretty and in the meantime the brain is deteriating and rotting.

Monday November 2, 2009, 10:32 pm
More animal testing not for the oft claimed "benefits of medical science" but the vanity of a whole legion of celebs and others who think killng mice and injecting poisonous substances into their faces makes them look good and is worth killing thousands of lab animals for! Sick vanity so they can present a younger image on the tv or film set!

Monday November 2, 2009, 10:33 pm
Sent.
Tx Cher

Tuesday November 3, 2009, 3:41 am
E-mail sent. Thanks Cher.

Tuesday November 3, 2009, 11:12 am



Thnx everyone!!!

Tuesday November 3, 2009, 1:41 pm
ACTION TAKEN, WHY CAN'T PEOPLE UNDERSTAND, THAT BEAUTY COMES FROM WITHIN, IT IS YOUR SOUL AND HEART, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. I PRAY FOR THE DAY PEOPLE REALIZE THIS, AND STOP DOING THESE HORRIBLE THINS TO LIVING ANIMALS. THANK-YOU CHER.

Thursday November 5, 2009, 12:44 am
Jesus you people are so ignorant. Botox uses botulinum toxin type-A to treat many diseases on medical grounds including:-

Cervical dystonia (spasmodic torticollis) (a neuromuscular disorder involving the head and neck)[15]
Blepharospasm (excessive blinking)[16]
Severe primary axillary hyperhidrosis (excessive sweating)[17]
Achalasia (failure of the lower oesophageal sphincter to relax)
Local intradermal injection of BTX-A is helpful in chronic focal painful neuropathies. The analgesic effects are not dependent on changes in muscle tone.[18]
Migraine and other headache disorders, although the evidence is conflicting in this indication[19]
Pediatric incontinence,[20] incontinence due to overactive bladder,[21] and incontinence due to neurogenic bladder.[22]
Anal fissure[23]
Spastic disorders associated with injury or disease of the central nervous system including trauma, stroke, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, or cerebral palsy
Focal dystonias affecting the limbs, face, jaw, or vocal cords
TMJ pain disorders
Diabetic neuropathy
Excessive salivation
VCD Vocal cord dysfunction including spasmodic dysphonia and tremor
Reduction of the Masseter muscle for decreasing the size of the lower jaw

Therefore it specifically has to be tested in vivo on the grounds to make sure it is safe for humans to use. No I am betting that unless you live in a society which doesnt take any drugs, eat meat or eat any tyoe of vegetables that are not organic or grown in your back yard....hey even water contain chemicals which have made it safe for you to drink which undoubtedly has been tested in animals.

That footage that was seen is 5 mins worth over 8 months and shows to me the technicians doing there job which is regualted by both the goverment and veterinary surgeons alike. The fact that people discard and rid there homes of vermin everyday by the same principal doesnt bring up the same ignorant comments I hear all the time from people like you.

I suggest you educate yourself before you spout off about stuff you obviously have no idea about the facts and figues behind it. I also suggest you look at the cruetly figures for family owned pets and you will see the rate of suffering animals is far higher than in the medical industry.

Thursday November 5, 2009, 4:11 am
As one of the joyous and ignorant contributing to this thread perhaps Mary would like to check her sources before launcing into a tirade of cut and paste propaganda! It might also be worth understanding the subject before spouting so voluably on it. The medical uses of this bacterium which is one of the most deadly substances around are almost incidental in volume to the cosmetic use which uses the toxic side effect to gain the desired result. In fact it was the inclusion of it's supposed medicinal use that negated the defence of an animal liberator who removed mice from a lab which was testing the cosmetic effects on mice. His claim that the mice where being subjected to tests for cosmetic purposes which was banned being countered by the lab involved as specious because they also carry out medical research for this product which is as a matter of interest reguired by law in the UK! Even though the mice concerned were not part of the medical studies and only being used for cosmetic applications of the product. Thus demonstrating the stupidity of the law anyway as it actually failed to protect the animals it was designed to. This lawyer + dollars phenomena used to beat the innocent or decriminalise the guilty rich is not confined to the UK but probaly has more currency in the US. If your ascertian that pet animals suffer more than lab animals I guess you have either never worked in a lab or you have no concern for your fellow animals. I'm not sure whether you allusion to Jesus is affirmatory or blasphemous as certainly the Biblical record would indicate that he was a man who had compassion for all species! Vermin control techniques have been the subject of many threads on here and elsewhere try looking for example for "Glue traps" or keeping cats indoors! One of the most rediculous facets of animal testing is the fact that most of the testing acheives nothing but dustbins full of dead rats, mice cats dogs rabbits birds and many larger species. The few areas of research that have yeilded results in the past keep being replicated because the labs doing it want to preserve their government grants or private company income by determing the research is patented to some obscure potentially life saving drug etc etc. Therefore cannot be shared with others replicating the self same research even though in some case the research has been published in learned scientific journals for colleagues to review! Part of the problem is politics and part of the problem is dollars all exacerbated by the incredible egos of the over educated idiots that frequent some areas of research and the general lab environment both private and governmental! So I rest in the satisfaction of my ignorance as a former scientific officer who could not compete with your vast repertoire of cut and paste information. Therefore if one was to accept the premise that animal testing was neccessary which I don't believe it is then it is a sad fact that probably 999.9% of it has already been done literally to death and the .0001 percent is simply replicating known data. So please get real stop listening to the dollar'pharma/politoco hype surrounding this one way street into a dead end. The politicians that are funded by the dollar power of huge industries are very unlikely to bite the hand that feeds them! If they did there would no more wars for example as politicians that are in the grip of the arms industry would have no motive to impede the Middle East peace process. Green technology would not be put on a back burner while oil companies hold sway over pollution targets. Whether you understand the linkage or not those are the realities which are no different in the drugs trade illegal or legal big pharma. Next time you arr in your doctors office just notice for example the number of drug company logos on freebie notepads, blotters, pens, mugs, desk sets, wall clocks and similar instruments of indoctrination. In UK GP's surgeries this will also include drawers full of the latest wonder drug the company rep is hoping to sell them! Sorry but that is the real world inhabited by us ignorant people who care for our fellow animals and human animals if you must be speciast! And not a word of profanity to be read! Most contributors have only made very short comments so I hope my wordy responce does not overload any of your unfired synapses and confuse you any further in your educational evolution!

Friday November 6, 2009, 7:13 am
one question to chris b. do you drink the water in your house, do you use washing powder to wash your clothes, do you brush your teeth with toothpaste, do you eat foods which have been processed etc etc etc you can not escape animal testing its a well known fact. I have worked in research and know full well of all the legalities and the stringent policies we have to up hold to and I have an idea of the new pharmaceutical products coming onto to the market and yes very few make it to the product line because of the testing practices required to get it FDA approved. There are many new drugs coming through many for different things and will one day hope to treat and prevent suffering in our own kind. it is not a nice thought to thnk yes we have to use animals for the purpose of man but unfotunately thats the way things roll in the world! There is unfortunately no other method of producing the same results unless it has been subjected to systemic in vivo testing. In vitro test have proved to be beneficial and is now the reason that drugs which require topical and ocular administration no longer have to be tested on live subjects. Cosmetic testing is illegal and has been for quite some time now so I honestly believe that the botox testing is require for medical purposes ptherwise it would not be approved. Each drug which requires safety pre clinical in vivo testing requires an eithical review all things are considered by both animal technicians, veterinary surgeons, toxicologists and the general lay person with no association with the company. This then has to comply with the home office and goverment regualtions and if any one says no because it is not believed to require further testing etc etc then it is scrapped whether it will make money or not. All drugs testing follow the strict 3 Rs which are reduction (if the animal amount can be reduced it will be over certain point drugs companies have to have damn good justification why) refinement ( all techniques ) and replacement ....if in vitro methods are availaible then these will be use. I could go on and on and on about the policies and procedures followed to ensure that animal welfare is imperitive all these are strictly adhered to and if anybody found not are reported to the home office, fired and could possibly be slapped with a custodial sentence.

Trust me nobody goes into medical testing to torture animals many are very very dedicated to the animals they work with to make stuff that the gift of their life they are giving is not in vain and that they are cared for to the highest standards.

The ignorances and unwillingess of you people to learn about whats goes on and the prevention of suffering in many seriously ill people is overwhelming and i just can not get my head around it. I think its very sad that you people are so narrow minded and do not as chris b. proved to do any research properly into the subject and just blame the whole thing on money. Surely these passions should be going into protesting something far more ludicrous like human killing each other for oil rights and corrupt goverments. Pharmaceuticals companies place a large emphasis on money but also as a researcher my aim is to help to improve peoples lives because i have the ability to do that.

you all use products that have been tested on animals and you cant get away from that at all!!!! So you are all hypocritical in protesting against it. Even the body shop lies to you yes the product at the end hasnt been tested on animals but the chemical ingrediants have. So chris b any further comments as I can debate against you all the way !!!

Friday November 6, 2009, 11:18 am
Well Mary you obviuosly care passionately about yourfield and I can only assume from your comments that you have had the good fortune to work in some fluffy clean caring labs with altruistic colleagues bent on saving the world! My experience has obviosly been tarnished by age and cynicism however the lack of care sadism and general lack of welfare in the state education system from abuses in the non disectional use of animals in primary schools and the pretty abusive treatment of a whole range of creatures from reptiles and insects to larger creatures such as birds sheep gots and whatever else they can get their hands in the secondary sector on is alarming to any caring person. When one enters the the field of higher ed and university the sadism appears to be a direct multiple of the supposed intelligence levels in those places when the training is in some medical specialism like vetinarary or human medicine one would have hoped the concern for the eventual patients of these doctors would have instilled some moral obligation and concern for the welbeing of animals in their care in some cases this is far from the norm. In the secretive world of sub contracted research anything apears to go from botched data to poor cleanliness even before any animal abuse materialises and once you reach the area of government secret labs where the frankenstein stuff occurs involveing the testing of poisonous material on animals and militry tarauma training etc all of which in the UK one is not supposed to know about much less talk about as it is all covered by the official secrets act as the government are not too happy to have the public know what nonsense they are up to suffice it to say the last known catastrophe was allegedly the leaking of Foot and Mouth desease out of supposedly secure labs via an inadequately maintained drainage system which resulted in the slaughter and burning of thousands of cattle. Now if that is the standard in the premier labs of the UK government where they play with nerve gas and many other war toys what hope for the private sector who don't have the luxury of endless dollars. Which brings me to the point of cash incentive for replicating the tired old research time and again because if yiou don't your lab virtually cease to exist or certainly has it's budget reduced at what ever level in the food chain. Most of whats been doen in tha past you quite rightly say has involved research I am not convinced it has to be done again and again. New research is a rare commodity indeed meaningful research even rarer so I guess that must be your bag. Your point about being conned about products not being tested is of course valid in so far as the constituent parts will have all had some testing applied to them somewhere however I think you will understand my point that it is is by no means neccessary to repeat that testing! You are sufficient aware to be upto date on the many non animal testing methods which I'm also sure you are aware not all labs utilise often because of the we have always done it on animals type of approach which personnlly I would feel would make research from that kind of environment suspect anyway as it is a closed mind lab! The dirth of computer models for ever conceivable combination of medication or what ever you care to mention fills giant catalogues as I'm sure you are aware also so even if there are some areas where there is the slightest justification for animal experimentation then I personnally cannot condone it. regardless of what the water company dump in my water without my consent! Anyway I know you will enjoy having a bat at my comments and it is probable that we shall never agree but it is nice to have a worthy oponent who does not resort to profanity and hissy screaming fits so you get my vote on that score, over to you!