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Pakistan: 500 Women and Girls Murdered in Islamic Honor Killings Each Year, Many More Go Unreported

World  (tags: Pakistan, Islam, Honor killing of women )

- 1558 days ago -
This article, like most about honor killings, never once mentions Islam. This steadfast and universal refusal to identify the root cause of honor murders only ensures that there will be more of them. Muslims commit 91 percent of honor killings worldwide.

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Beth S (330)
Sunday February 16, 2014, 7:15 pm
This article, like most about honor killings, never once mentions Islam. This steadfast and universal refusal to identify the root cause of honor murders only ensures that there will be more of them.

Muslims commit 91 percent of honor killings worldwide. A manual of Islamic law certified as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy by Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, says that “retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right.” However, “not subject to retaliation” is “a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring’s offspring.” (‘Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2). In other words, someone who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law.

The Palestinian Authority gives pardons or suspended sentences for honor murders. Iraqi women have asked for tougher sentences for Islamic honor murderers, who get off lightly now. Syria in 2009 scrapped a law limiting the length of sentences for honor killings, but “the new law says a man can still benefit from extenuating circumstances in crimes of passion or honour ‘provided he serves a prison term of no less than two years in the case of killing.’” And in 2003 the Jordanian Parliament voted down on Islamic grounds a provision designed to stiffen penalties for honor killings. Al-Jazeera reported that “Islamists and conservatives said the laws violated religious traditions and would destroy families and values.”

“Crimes against women: ‘There are more honour killings than we know,’” from the Express Tribune, February 15:

LAHORE: “As many as 500 women and girls are killed for ‘honour’ in Pakistan each year, making Pakistan one of the most dangerous countries for women,” said Dr Muazzam Nasrullah, a public health specialist teaching at Emory and West Virginia University, USA, on Friday.

He was delivering a lecture on Honour Killings: A Public Health Perspective at the University of Health Sciences, organised by the UHS Department of Family Medicine.

Dr Nasrullah stressed the need to provide a platform to oppressed women. “This will help create an informed and supportive environment for advocacy for policies to eliminate violence against women,” he said.

He said, ‘honour’ killings most often involved women being murdered by their family members to avenge the ‘shame’ brought on through infidelity or culturally unacceptable behaviour. “This is a unique form of violence,” said Dr Nasrullah.

“Domestic violence is usually carried out by husbands or romantic partners…in this case the perpetrators are usually brothers or fathers.”

Dr Nasrullah said his study had tried to quantify the problem since data on the matter was hard to come by. He said he had used newspaper reports compiled by the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan for his study. He said 1,957 incidents of honour killings had been recorded over the past four years.

Most of them had occurred in response to alleged extramarital relations.

Dr Nasrullah said he was sure that the number of incidents reported was lower than the actual number of incidents, as not every incident makes it to the media. “The problem is much worse than what this study makes it out to be,” he said.

The average rate of honour killings in women between 15-64 years was found to be 15 per million women per year.

He said murders for ‘honour’ occurred all over the country under various names kala-kali (Punjab), karo-kari (Sindh), tor-tora (Khyber Pakhtunkhwa) and Siyakari (Balochistan).

Human Rights Commission of Pakistan Director IA Rehman said although honour killings were illegal, there were loopholes in the law that often prevented full punishment for the crime.

He said it was very important to have reliable data about honour killings.

Sheila D (194)
Sunday February 16, 2014, 7:25 pm
Of course, the number of honor killings is under-reported...same as rapes in the US and other countries doesn't reflect correct numbers - women are scared. The fear is generated by fathers, brothers, uncles, grandparents...even by other female family members and/or the governement officials at various levels. This is bullying at its deadliest.

Stan B (123)
Sunday February 16, 2014, 8:39 pm
Thanks Beth. Yes this is just the tip of an enormous ice-berg.

Madhuri Pillai (22)
Sunday February 16, 2014, 10:16 pm

Olivia Dawson (4)
Sunday February 16, 2014, 11:38 pm
2 women a week are killed in the UK by their ex-boyfriends, really don't think we are in any position to condem honour killings.

Stan B (123)
Sunday February 16, 2014, 11:57 pm
Olivia D. Possibly they are but they aren't killed by their own fathers and brothers for no good reason.

Dogan Ozkan (5)
Monday February 17, 2014, 12:21 am

Past Member (0)
Monday February 17, 2014, 12:28 am
Sadly noted.
Thank you Beth.

. (0)
Monday February 17, 2014, 12:36 am
𝖓𝖔𝖙𝖊𝖉. 𝖙𝖍𝖆𝖓𝖐𝖘 𝖇𝖊𝖙𝖍!

Jordan G (37)
Monday February 17, 2014, 1:50 am
I have no love (nor love lost) for extremists of any sort, nor tolerance for violence toward women in any of its confusingly multiple forms.

One question to ask is whether this is endemic or pocketed.

Another is whether we benefit from condemning an entire religion or people.

I'm no apologist for those who took down the WTC or commit the other atrocities. I just know that violence begets more violence and certain groups seem to be emboldened by condemnation. I also know that a job half-done is a problem made four times worse. I'm not proposing an answer or criticizing an approach. If I had an answer I would post it and suffer the retaliatory comments.

What we -- individually and together -- need to do is to look for different approaches to those which have come before but not worked.

And, as always, I continue to wonder, why aren't Western women more outraged, more active, more vocal, more self-empowered as a group on these issues? Sorry, but few men are preventing Western women from circulating petitions condemning brutality toward women around the world. Few men are holding back Western women from conducting a letter or phone call or email campaign to the head of the United Nations or the G20 or elsewhere.

Perhaps we (including me, which is why I write and take the chance on criticism) can all take a lesson from Pastor Martin Niemöller:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

Syd H (48)
Monday February 17, 2014, 5:22 am

Every 9 seconds in the US a woman is assaulted or beaten.

*Domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women—more than car accidents, muggings, and rapes combined.

*Studies suggest that up to 10 million children witness some form of domestic violence annually.

*Everyday in the US, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends (yeah, that's over 1000 which trumps the Pakistan figures).

*Ninety-two percent of women surveyed listed reducing domestic violence and sexual assault as their top concern.

*Domestic violence victims lose nearly 8 million days of paid work per year in the US alone—the equivalent of 32,000 full-time jobs.

*The costs of intimate partner violence in the US alone exceed $5.8 billion per year: $4.1 billion are for direct medical and health care services, while productivity losses account for nearly $1.8 billion.

*Men who as children witnessed their parents’ domestic violence were twice as likely to abuse their own wives than sons of nonviolent parents.

THIS IS NOT A MUSLIM ISSUE but one that affects women and indeed men all over the world. Painting it as Muslim is UGLY hate-mongering (which is evident by the words used and the propaganda put up by the gang on this site) using the victims all over again to cause even more indiscriminate violence (while downplaying the violence in our own homes & backyards no less; that's really pathetic).

It is also not something women are responsible for stopping. It is the men (in the vast majority of these cases, well over 90% with some of the women led violence being women on women while the male violence includes men on men) who are committing the violence, it is up to men too to stand up to the idea that it's okay!


Syd H (48)
Monday February 17, 2014, 5:29 am

Why are you not putting up Hindu hate posts?

Sources show that rape cases in India have doubled between 1990 and 2008.[8] According to the National Crime Records Bureau, in 2012, 24,923 rape cases were reported across India. Out of these, 24,470 were committed by relative or neighbor. Men accounted to commit 98 per cent of reported rapes.[9] The latest estimates suggest that a new case of rape is reported every 22 minutes in India.[10]

It's a world problem. Not a religion problem, except to those who use it to further their hate agenda. :(


Beth S (330)
Monday February 17, 2014, 6:05 am

First, this article is NOT about the phenomenon of rape, although there probably is some connection. It is about the 91% of HONOR KILLING going on in the world that are of Islamic doing.

Islam is an shame-based ideology, and it is also highly misogynistic, if you read the Qur'an and Hadiths, it is deeply embedded and enshrined in it that women are essentially chattel, which is a word that means cattle.

Let's take a look at the problem with Islam views women (from Trop)


Does Islam teach that a woman is worth less than a man?

Summary Answer:

Absolutely. The only debatable point is by what degree.

The Qur'an:

Qur'an (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176). In Islam, sexism is mathematically established.

Qur'an (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women." Muslim apologists offer creative explanations to explain why Allah felt that a man's testimony in court should be valued twice as highly as a woman's, but studies consistently show that women are actually less likely to tell lies than men, meaning that they would make more reliable witnesses.

Qur'an (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"

Qur'an (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt on their hands if there is no water to purify them following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).

Qur'an (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye. (To be fair, men are told to do the same thing in the prior verse).

Qur'an (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." A man has dominion over his wives' bodies as he does his land. This verse is overtly sexual. There is some dispute as to whether it is referring to the practice of anal intercourse, which it has been used historically to justify. If this is what Muhammad meant, however, then it would appear to contradict what he said in Muslim (8:3365).

Qur'an (4:3) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four" Inequality by numbers.

Qur'an (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male.

Qur'an (4:24) and Qur'an (33:50) - A man is permitted to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage. Note that the verse distinguishes wives from captives (those whom they right hand possesses).

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (6:301) - "[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"

Bukhari (6:301) - continued - "[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion.'" Allah has made women deficient in the practice of their religion as well, by giving them menstrual cycles.

Bukhari (2:28) - Women comprise the majority of Hell's occupants. This is important because the only women in heaven ever mentioned by Muhammad are the virgins who serve the sexual desires of men. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).

Bukhari (62:81) - "The Prophet said: "'The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) private parts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract).'" In other words, the most important thing a woman brings to marriage is between her legs.

Bukhari (62:58) - A woman presents herself in marriage to Muhammad, but he does not find her attractive, so he "donates" her on the spot to another man.

Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]: 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'" These are the words of Muhammad's favorite wife, complaining of the role assigned to women under Islam.

Abu Dawud (2:704) - "...the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw."

Abu Dawud (2155) - Women are compared to slaves and camels with regard to the "evil" in them.

Ishaq 593 - "As for Ali, he said, 'Women are plentiful, and you can easily change one for another.'" Ali was raised as a son by Muhammad. He was also the 4th caliph. This comment was made in Muhammad's presence without a word of rebuke from him.

Ishaq 593 - "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another." - Even in this world, Muhammad treated women like party favors, handing out slave girls to his cronies for sex.

Al-Tirmidhi 3272 - "When Allah's Messenger was asked which woman was best he replied, 'The one who pleases (her husband) when he looks at her, obeys him when he gives a command, and does not go against his wishes regarding her person or property by doing anything of which he disapproves'."

Tabari VIII:117 - The fate of more captured farm wives, whom the Muslims distributed amongst themselves as sex slaves: "Dihyah had asked the Messenger for Safiyah when the Prophet chose her for himself... the Apostle traded for Safiyah by giving Dihyah her two cousins. The women of Khaybar were distributed among the Muslims."

Tabari IX:137 - "Allah granted Rayhana of the Qurayza to Muhammad as booty."

Ishaq 969 - "Men were to lay injunctions on women lightly, for they were prisoners of men and had no control over their persons." - This same text also justifies beating women for flirting.

Tabari Vol 9, Number 1754 - "Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals with you and do not possess anything for themselves." From Muhammad's 'Farewell Sermon'.

Additional Notes:

The attempt to paint Islam as a pioneering force in women's rights is a recent one, corresponding with the efforts of Muslim apologists (not otherwise known for their feminist concerns) and some Western academics prone to interpreting history according to pre-formed conclusions. In truth, the Islamic religious community has never exhibited an interest in expanding opportunities for women beyond the family role.

The fourth Caliph, who was Muhammad's son-in-law and cousin, said just a few years after the prophet's death that "The entire woman is an evil. And what is worse is that it is a necessary evil."

A traditional Islamic saying is that, "A woman's heaven is beneath her husband's feet." One of the world's most respected Quran commentaries explains that, "Women are like cows, horses, and camels, for all are ridden." (Tafsir al-Qurtubi)

The revered Islamic scholar, al-Ghazali, who has been called 'the greatest Muslim after Muhammad,' writes that the role of a Muslim woman is to "stay at home and get on with her sewing. She should not go out often, she must not be well-informed, nor must she be communicative with her neighbors and only visit them when absolutely necessary; she should take care of her husband... and seek to satisfy him in everything... Her sole worry should be her virtue... She should be clean and ready to satisfy her husband's sexual needs at any moment." [as quoted from Ibn Warraq]

A Yemeni cleric recently explained in a television broadcast what it is that makes women inferior and unable, say, to serve as good witnesses: "Women are subject to menstruation, when their endurance and mental capacity for concentration are diminished. When a woman witnesses a killing or an accident, she becomes frightened, moves away, and sometimes even faints, and she cannot even watch the incident."

During a 2012 talk show on an Egyptian television channel, a cleric slammed Christianity - in part for teaching gender equality: “the Christian religion does not differentiate between women and men, but it confirms their perfect equality: it gives them an equal share in inheritance, it bans divorce, and it bans polygamy.”

The many opportunities denied women under Islamic law, from giving equal testimony in court to having the right to exclude other wives from their marital bed, is very clear proof that women are of lesser value then men in Islam. Muslim women are not even free to marry outside the faith without being killed by their own families.

Islamic law also specifies that when a woman is murdered by a man, her family is owed only half as much "blood money" (diya) as they would be if she had been a man. (The life of a non-Muslim is generally assessed at one-third).

Although a man retains custody of his children in the event of his wife's death, a non-Muslim woman will automatically lose custody of her children in the event of her husband's death unless she converts to Islam or marries a male relative of within his family. Even the rights of Muslim mothers are subordinate to her husband's family.

Contemporary Muslims like to counter that Arabs treated women as camels prior to Muhammad. This is somewhat questionable, given that Muhammad's first wife was a wealthy woman who owned property and ran a successful business prior to ever meeting him. She was even his boss... (although we're sure that changed after the marriage). Still, it is somewhat telling that Islam's treatment of women can only be defended by contrasting it to an extremely primitive environment in which women were supposedly non-entities.

Homa Darabi was a talented physician who took her own life by setting herself on fire in public protest of the oppression of women in Islamic Iran. She did this after a 16-year-old girl was shot to death for wearing lipstick. In the book, Why We Left Islam, her sister includes a direct quote from one of the country's leading clerics:

"The specific task of women in this society is to marry and bear children. They will be discouraged from entering legislative, judicial, or whatever careers which may require decision-making, as women lack the intellectual ability and discerning judgment required for these careers."

Modern day cleric Abu Ishaq al-Huwaini has called for a return of the slave markets, where Muslim men can go to order concubines. In this man of God's ideal world, "when I want a sex-slave, I got to the market and pick whichever female I desire and buy her."

At best, Islam elevates the status of a woman to somewhere between that of a camel and a man.

Muhammad captured women in war and treated them as a tradable commodity. The immutable, ever-relevant Qur'an explicitly permits women to be kept as sex slaves. These are hardly things in which Muslims can take pride.


. (0)
Monday February 17, 2014, 7:06 am
Noted & posted

Past Member (0)
Monday February 17, 2014, 8:53 am
Syd and Olivia,

There are rapes and murders happening in Islamic countries too, and murderers belong to all nations and to all religions.

The problem starts, when the murderers or rapists are allowed to go free, and, unfortunately, this is the case of "Honour" Killings. Both the law and the society of Islamic countries condone such killings.

That is exactly what the articles brings our attention to.

June Bostock (50)
Monday February 17, 2014, 10:11 am
There should be no such thing as honour killings. THEY ARE ALL MURDERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gene J (290)
Monday February 17, 2014, 10:47 am
There is a woman, whose avatar wears a hijab, on the stories side of the site, who is Muslim. Yesterday she posted that in Islam women are revered, protected and considered precious. I had to respond to that idea because, despite even here finding apologists for this most murderous of all religions, the statement that Islam protects women is ridiculous. Unless protection means no driving, no education, no work, no professions and being subject to your father or brothers whims at what THEY think of your behavior - true or not. Yes, there are horrors committed elsewhere against women, including here in the US, but those are not religion sponsored, they are assaults punishable by law and the penalties are increasing. As this article shows, in Islam, men who commit "honor" killings are rarely punished at all, in fact their piety is lauded. That is a mass form of mental illness masquerading as religion. Women are less than second class citizens in any Sharia based country and at every moment in danger of their very lives. So, don't preach about how wonderful Islam is in its treatment of women nor try to compare situations as reported in this article to domestic abuse (which IS prosecuted in the US and most civilized nations), that only debases this issue further and adds fuel to the fire that burns in the men of Islam to beat, torture, rape and kill the women of their lands.

. (0)
Monday February 17, 2014, 11:36 am
Many stars....

Patricia Martinez (63)
Monday February 17, 2014, 12:23 pm

Yes, "Honor Killings" ARE a (mostly) Islamic and distinct phenomenon from simple domestic violence.

......."Are Honor Killings Simply Domestic Violence?".......

(see URL below to see original article for correct table displays)

On February 12, 2009, Muzzammil Hassan informed police that he had beheaded his wife. Hassan had emigrated to the United States 30 years ago and, after a successful banking career, had founded Bridges TV, a Muslim-interest network which aims, according to its website, "to foster a greater understanding among many cultures and diverse populations." Erie County District Attorney Frank A. Sedita III told The Buffalo News that "this is the worst form of domestic violence possible," and Khalid Qazi, president of the Muslim Public Affairs Council of Western New York, told the New York Post that Islam forbids such domestic violence. While Muslim advocacy organizations argue that honor killings are a misnomer stigmatizing Muslims for what is simply domestic violence, a problem that has nothing to do with religion, Phyllis Chesler, who just completed a study of more than 50 instances of North American honor killings, says the evidence suggests otherwise. — The Editors

When a husband murders a wife or daughter in the United States and Canada, too often law enforcement chalks the matter up to domestic violence. Murder is murder; religion is irrelevant. Honor killings are, however, distinct from wife battering and child abuse. Analysis of more than fifty reported honor killings shows they differ significantly from more common domestic violence.[1] The frequent argument made by Muslim advocacy organizations that honor killings have nothing to do with Islam and that it is discriminatory to differentiate between honor killings and domestic violence is wrong.
Background and Denial

Families that kill for honor will threaten girls and women if they refuse to cover their hair, their faces, or their bodies or act as their family's domestic servant; wear makeup or Western clothing; choose friends from another religion; date; seek to obtain an advanced education; refuse an arranged marriage; seek a divorce from a violent husband; marry against their parents' wishes; or behave in ways that are considered too independent, which might mean anything from driving a car to spending time or living away from home or family. Fundamentalists of many religions may expect their women to meet some but not all of these expectations. But when women refuse to do so, Jews, Christians, and Buddhists are far more likely to shun rather than murder them. Muslims, however, do kill for honor, as do, to a lesser extent, Hindus and Sikhs.

The United Nations Population Fund estimates that 5,000 women are killed each year for dishonoring their families.[2] This may be an underestimate. Aamir Latif, a correspondent for the Islamist website Islam Online who writes frequently on the issue, reported that in 2007 in the Punjab province of Pakistan alone, there were 1,261 honor murders.[3] The Aurat Foundation, a Pakistani nongovernmental organization focusing on women's empowerment, found that the rate of honor killings was on track to be in the hundreds in 2008.[4]

There are very few studies of honor killing, however, as the motivation for such killings is cleansing alleged dishonor and the families do not wish to bring further attention to their shame, so do not cooperate with researchers. Often, they deny honor crimes completely and say the victim simply went missing or committed suicide. Nevertheless, honor crimes are increasingly visible in the media. Police, politicians, and feminist activists in Europe and in some Muslim countries are beginning to treat them as a serious social problem.[5]

Willingness to address the problem of honor killing, however, does not extend to many Muslim advocacy groups in North America. The well-publicized denials of U.S.-based advocacy groups are ironic given the debate in the Middle East. While the religious establishment in Jordan, for example, says that honor killing is a relic of pre-Islamic Arab culture, Muslim Brotherhood groups in Jordan have publicly disagreed to argue the Islamic religious imperative to protect honor.[6]

Yotam Feldner, a researcher at the Middle East Media Research Institute, quotes a psychiatrist in Gaza who describes the honor killing culture as one in which a man who refrains from "washing shame with blood" is a "coward who is not worthy of living ... as less than a man." Therefore, it is no surprise that the Jordanian penal code is quite lenient towards honor killers. While honor killing may be a custom that originated in the pagan, pre-Islamic past, contemporary Islamist interpretations of religious law prevail. As Feldner puts it: "Some important Islamic scholars in Jordan have even gone further by declaring honor crimes an Islamic imperative that derives from the 'values of virility advocated by Islam.'"[7]

Islamist advocacy organizations, however, argue that such killings have nothing to do with Islam or Muslims, that domestic violence cuts across all faiths, and that the phrase "honor killing" stigmatizes Muslims whose behavior is no different than that of non-Muslims. For example, in response to a well-publicized 2000 honor killing,, an Islamic information and products site, published an article that argued,

Four other women were killed in Chicago in the same month ... They were white, African-American, Hispanic, and Asian … Islam is not responsible for [the Muslim woman's] death. Nor is Christianity responsible for the deaths of the other women.[8]

In 2007, after Aqsa Parvez was murdered by her father in Toronto for not wearing hijab (a head covering), Sheila Musaji wrote in the American Muslim, "Although this certainly is a case of domestic violence … 'honor' killings are not only a Muslim problem, and there is no 'honor' involved."[9] Mohammed Elmasry, of the Canadian Islamic Congress, also dismissed the problem. "I don't want the public to think that this is an Islamic issue or an immigrant issue. It is a teenager issue," he said.[10]

Indeed, denial is rife. In 2008, after Kandeela Sandal was murdered for honor by her father in Atlanta because she wanted a divorce, Ajay Nair, associate dean of multicultural affairs at Columbia University, told the media that "most South Asian communities in the United States" enjoy "wonderful" relationships within their families and said, "This isn't a rampant problem within South Asian communities. What is a problem, I think, is domestic violence, and that cuts across all communities."[11] In October 2008, Mustafaa Carroll, executive director of the Dallas branch of the Council of American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), dismissed any Islamic connection to a prominent Dallas honor killing, labeled as such by the FBI, arguing, "As far as we're concerned, until the motive is proven in a court of law, this is [just] a homicide." He continued, "We [Muslims] don't have the market on jealous husbands ... or domestic violence … This is not Islamic culture." [12]

Case studies suggest otherwise.

Domestic Violence versus Honor Killing

Domestic violence is a significant problem in the United States. Between 1989 and 2004, 21,124 women died at the hands of an intimate; 8,997 men died in domestic violence during the same time period.[13] Because the U.S. Department of Justice does not catalogue the victim's or murderer's age, religion, ethnic background, or immigration status, it is not possible to know what proportion of these killings are honor-related.

Unni Wikan, a social anthropologist and professor at the University of Oslo, defines honor killing as "a murder carried out as a commission from the extended family, to restore honor after the family has been dishonored. As a rule, the basic cause is a rumor that any female family member has behaved in an immoral way."[14] While honor killings are just a minority of total domestic violence in the United States and Canada, they constitute a distinct phenomenon. (See Table 1.) A 2008 Massachusetts-based study found that "although immigrants make up an estimated 14 percent of the state's population, [they, nevertheless,] accounted for 26 percent of the 180 domestic violence deaths from 1997-2006."[15]

Lenore Walker, author of The Battered Woman Syndrome,[16] agreed that fundamentalist immigrants control and patrol their women very closely. "Given the strict rules, there are a lot of things to kill them for," she said. Walker confirmed the difference between the victim-perpetrator in honor killings and ordinary domestic violence:

In ordinary domestic violence involving Westerners, it is rare for brothers to kill sisters or for male cousins to kill female cousins. And while child abuse occurs in which fathers may kill infants and children, it is very rare for Western fathers to kill teenage daughters.[17]

Other discrepancies exist. Walker observed that Western men are more apt to kill little boys than girls in their family. "Women with postpartum depression kill their babies, and men may kill babies by shaken baby syndrome," she explained. She did not "know of any batterers who are helped to commit the murders by their brothers or cousins or other family members. Occasionally, the man's relatives may be in the house when the murder goes down, but that is quite rare in my experience."[18]

The press has reported a number of honor killings in the United States, Canada, and Europe. These cases show the killings to be primarily a Muslim-on-Muslim crime. (See Table 2 and Table 3.) The victims are largely teenage daughters or young women. Wives are victims but to a lesser extent. And, unlike most Western domestic violence, honor killings are carefully planned. The perpetrator's family may warn the victim repeatedly over a period of years that she will be killed if she dishonors her family by refusing to veil, rebuffing an arranged marriage, or becoming too Westernized. Most important, only honor killings involve multiple family members. Fathers, mothers, brothers, male cousins, uncles, and sometimes even grandfathers commit the murder, but mothers and sisters may lobby for the killing. Some mothers collaborate in the murder in a hands-on way and may assist in the getaway. In some cases, taxi drivers, neighbors, and mosque members prevent the targeted woman from fleeing, report her whereabouts to her family, and subsequently conspire to thwart police investigations.[19] Very old relatives or minors may be chosen to conduct the murder in order to limit jail time if caught.

Seldom is domestic violence celebrated, even by its perpetrators. In the West, wife batterers are ostracized. Here, there is an important difference in honor crimes. Muslims who commit or assist in the commission of honor killings view these killings as heroic and even view the murder as the fulfillment of a religious obligation. A Turkish study of prisoners found no social stigma attached to honor murderers.[20] While advocacy organizations such as CAIR denounce any link between honor killings and Islam, many sheikhs still preach that disobedient women should be punished. Few sheikhs condemn honor killings as anti-Islamic. Honor killings are not stigmatized.

Table 1: Differing Characteristics of Honor Killings and Domestic Violence

Honor Killings Domestic Violence
Committed mainly by Muslims against Muslim girls/young adult women. Committed by men of all faiths usually against adult women.
Committed mainly by fathers against their teenage daughters and daughters in their early twenties. Wives and older-age daughters may also be victims, but to a lesser extent. Committed by an adult male spouse against an adult female spouse or intimate partner.
Carefully planned. Death threats are often used as a means of control. The murder is often unplanned and spontaneous.
The planning and execution involve multiple family members and can include mothers, sisters, brothers, male cousins, uncles, grandfathers, etc. If the girl escapes, the extended family will continue to search for her to kill her. The murder is carried out by one man with no family complicity.
The reason given for the honor killing is that the girl or young woman has "dishonored" the family. The batterer-murderer does not claim any family concept of "honor." The reasons may range from a poorly cooked meal to suspected infidelity to the woman's trying to protect the children from his abuse or turning to the authorities for help.
At least half the time, the killings are carried out with barbaric ferocity. The female victim is often raped, burned alive, stoned or beaten to death, cut at the throat, decapitated, stabbed numerous times, suffocated slowly, etc. While some men do beat a spouse to death, they often simply shoot or stab them.
The extended family and community valorize the honor killing. They do not condemn the perpetrators in the name of Islam. Mainly, honor killings are seen as normative. The batterer-murderer is seen as a criminal; no one defends him as a hero. Such men are often viewed as sociopaths, mentally ill, or evil.
The murderer(s) do not show remorse. Instead, they experience themselves as "victims," defending themselves from the girl's actions and trying to restore their lost family honor. Sometimes, remorse or regret is exhibited.

Table 2: North American Honor Killings, Successful and Attempted

Victim Name (age) Year, Location Perpetrators' Name, Origin Motive Method
Palestina Isa (16) 1989
St. Louis, MO Maria & Zein Isa, parents, sisters also encouraged it / West Bank. (M) "Too American," refused to travel with her father, a member of the Abu Nidal Palestinian terrorist group, as "cover." Stabbed 13 times by father as her mother held her down.
Methal Dayem (22) 1999
Cleveland, OH Yezen Dayem, Musa Saleh, cousins / West Bank. (M) Refused to marry her cousin; attended college; sought independent career as elementary school teacher; drove her own car; too independent; turned back on her culture. Two cousins allegedly shot her, choked on own blood.
Lubaina Bhatti Ahmed (39) 1999
St. Clairsville, OH Nawaz Ahmed, estranged husband / Pakistan (M) Filed for divorce. Throat cut; her father, sister and sister's young child's throat also cut.
Farah Khan (5) 1999
Toronto, Canada Muhammed Khan, father, and Kaneez Fatma, stepmother / unknown region. (M) Suspected child was not his biologically. Father and step-mother cut her throat, dismembered her body.
Jawinder "Jassi" Kaur (25) 2000
Pakistan Gang of men hired by Malkiat Kaur, mother, and Surjit Sing Badesha, uncle / Canada/Pakistan (S) Against her wealthy, farming parents' wishes, married a man who was of inferior financial status, a Pakistani rickshaw driver. Kidnapped, throat slashed
Shahpara Sayeed (33) 2000
Chicago, IL Mohammad Harroon, husband / Pakistan (M) Motive is unclear. But they had been fighting for months. Burned alive
Marlyn Hassan (29) 2002
Jersey City, NJ Alim Hassan, husband / Guyana (Hindu wife) (M) His wife refused to convert from Hinduism to Islam. Husband, an auto mechanic, stabbed wife (and the twins in her womb), the wife's sister, and the wife's mother.
Amandeep Singh Atwal (17) 2003
British Columbia, Canada Rajinder Singh Atwal, father / East Indies (S) Wanted daughter to end relationship with non-Sikh classmate, Todd McIsaac Father stabbed daughter 11 times.
Hatice Peltek (39) 2004
Scottsville, NY Ismail Peltek, husband / Turkey (M) Had been molested by brother-in-law Stabbed, bludgeoned with hammer along with daughters.
Aqsa Parvez (16) 2007
Toronto, Canada Muhammad Parvez. father, Waqas Parvez, brother (M) / unknown region Refusing to wear hijab. Strangled
Amina Said (17) 2008
Irving, TX Yaser Said, father; mother assisted / Egypt (M) Upset by her "Western" ways. Shot
Sarah Said (18) 2008
Irving, TX Yaser Said, father; mother assisted / Egypt (M) Upset by her "Western" ways Shot
Fauzia Mohammed (19) 2008
Henriettta, NY Goaded by mother, Waheed Allah Mohammed, brother / Afghanistan (M) Too "Western," immodest clothing, planned to attend college in New York City Stabbed
Sandeela Kanwal (25) 2008
Atlanta, GA Chaudry Rashid, father / Pakistan (M) Filed for divorce after arranged marriage Strangled
Legend: M = Muslim; S=Sikh

In these cases, the average age of the victims was 21.5, and 10 of the 14 were daughters. Importantly, more than half the cases involved multiple perpetrators. Nor is there a significant difference between honor killings in North America and Europe. Neither the average age (20) nor the percentage of daughters as victims in the European cases is significantly different from those in the North American cases. (See Table 3.)

Table 3: European Honor Killings

Victim Name Year, Location Perpetrators' Name, Origin Motive Method
Surjit Athwal (27) 1998
lured to India from England Bachan Athwal, grandmother-in-law, her son and another relative / India (S) Having an affair, planning to divorce. Lured to India for 'family wedding' and strangled.
Rukhsana Naz (19) 1999
England Brother and mother / Pakistan (M) Refused arranged marriage; pregnant with boyfriend's baby. Strangled by brother while held down by mother
Fadime Sahindal (32) 2002
Sweden Father and brother / Kurds from Turkey (M) Rejected arranged marriage; dated non-Muslim; sought higher education; sought legal remedy against father and brother. Shot
Heshu Yones (16) 2002
England Abdalla Yones, father / Iraq (M) Dating a Christian; too Western. Stabbed, throat cut
Sohane Benziane (17) 2002
France Jamal Derrar, ex-boyfriend and schoolmates / Algeria (M) Too Western Raped, tortured, and burned alive
Anooshe Sediq Ghulam (22) 2002
Norway Nasruddin Shamsi, husband / Afghanistan (M) Failure to listen to her husband, divorce. Shot
Maja Bradaric (16) 2003
The Netherlands Nephew and 3 others / Bosnia (M) Using Internet to find a boyfriend Burned to death
Sahjda Bibi (21) 2003
England Rafaqat Hussain, cousin / Pakistan (M) Refused arranged marriage Stabbed 22 times
Anita Gindha (22) 2003
Scotland Relative suspected / Pakistan (S) Married non-Sikh. Strangled
Shafilea Ahmed (16) 2003
England Parents suspected / Pakistan (M) Opposed her parents' plans for an arranged marriage Strangled or smothered
"Gul" (32) 2004
The Netherlands Husband/Afghanistan (M) Sought divorce Shot
Hatin Surucu (23) 2005
Germany Three brothers / Turkey (M) Fled forced marriage; did not wear scarf. Shot
Rudina Qinami (16) 2005
Albania Father / Albania (M) Accepted ride by male, non-relative. Shot
Banaz Mahmod (20) 2006
England Mahmod Mahmod, father, her uncle Ari Mahmod / Kurds from Iraq (M) Having an "affair". Raped, strangled
Samaira Nazir (25) 2006
England Azhar Nazir, brother and cousin / Pakistan (M) Fell in love with Afghan refugee; refused to consider arranged marriage in Pakistan Stabbing, throat cut
Sazan Bajez-Abdullah (24) 2006
Germany Kazim Mahmud, husband / Iraq (M) Acting in an "immodest "way. Stabbed, set on fire
Sabia Rani (19) 2006
England Shazad Khan, husband and in-laws / Pakistan (M) Wanted divorce Beaten
Ghazala Khan (18) 2006
Denmark Brother, father and other family members / Pakistan (M) Family did not approve of husband Shot
Caneze Riaz (39) 2006
England Mohammed Riaz, husband / Pakistan (M) Too westernized Immolated
Sayrah Riaz (16) 2006
England Mohammed Riaz, father / Pakistan (M) Too westernized Immolated
Sophia Riaz (15) 2006
England Mohammed Riaz, father / Pakistan (M) Too westernized Immolated
Alicia Riaz (10) 2006
England Mohammed Riaz, father / Pakistan (M) Too westernized Immolated
Hannah Riaz (3) 2006
England Mohammed Riaz, father / Pakistan (M) Too westernized Immolated
Hina Saleem (21) 2006
Italy Father and brother-in-law / Pakistan (M) Did not respect Pakistani culture, divorced, wore clothing that showed her midriff Stabbed
Sana Ali (17) 2007
England Husband / Pakistan (M) Not known, but detectives consider honor motive Stabbed
Morsal Obeidi (16) 2008
Germany Ahmad Obeidi, brother, and cousin / Afghanistan (M) Wanted too much freedom; did not appreciate Muslim values Stabbed
Legend: M = Muslim; S=Sikh

In both North America and Europe, family members conducted honor killings with excessive violence—repeatedly stabbing, raping, setting aflame, and bludgeoning—in more than half the cases. Only in serial-killing-type scenarios are Western women targeted with similar violence; in these cases, the perpetrators are seldom family members, and their victims are often strangers. Despite the obfuscation of Muslim advocacy groups, these case studies show that honor killings are quite distinct from domestic violence. Not all honor killings are perpetrated by Muslims, but the overwhelming majority are. Ninety percent of the honor killers shown in Tables 2 and 3 were Muslim. In every case, perpetrators view their victims as violating rules of religious conduct and act without remorse.

While the sample size is small, this study suggests that honor killing is accelerating in North America and may correlate with the numbers of first generation immigrants. The problem is diverse but originates with immigration from majority Muslim countries and regions—the Palestinian territories, the Kurdish regions of Turkey and Iraq, majority Muslim countries in the Balkans, Bangladesh, Egypt, and Afghanistan. Pakistanis accounts for the plurality. The common denominator in each case is not culture but religion.

Conflict of Cultural Moralities

The problem the West faces is complex. Muslims, Sikhs, and Hindus view honor and morality as a collective family matter. Rights are collective, not individual. Family, clan, and tribal rights supplant individual human rights.[21]

In these groups, intellectuals and elites handicap the absorption of immigrants arriving from countries where honor is a communal virtue. For example, accusations of Islamophobia stymie discussion and policy formulation when policymakers seek to address problems occurring among Muslim immigrants. Still, there are legal interventions underway in Europe, home to between twenty and thirty million Muslim immigrants and their descendents, as opposed to perhaps four million in the United States and Canada.[22] Honor-related violence is, therefore, more visible in Europe than in North America. In 2004, Sweden held an international conference on honor killing, calling for "international cooperation" on the issue. Conference participants concluded:

Violence in the name of honor must be combated as an obstacle to women's enjoyment of human rights. Interpretations of honor as strongly connected with female chastity must be challenged. It can never be accepted that customs, traditions, or religious considerations are invoked to avoid obligations to eradicate violence against women and girls, including violence in the name of honor. Violence against women must be addressed from a rights-based perspective. … Measures should be taken in the areas of legislation, employment, education, and sexual and reproductive health and rights. Respect for women's enjoyment of human rights is intrinsically linked to democracy. International conventions must be incorporated into national legislation.[23]

There have since been local conferences in England, France, and Germany. British law enforcement has begun to hide women in a program equivalent to the U.S. Federal witness protection program.[24] Great Britain has passed legislation to empower police to rescue British female citizens whose families have kidnapped and forcibly married them against their will, usually in Pakistan; the police will return them to Britain if the brides request it. There is a special police unit that deals with the forced, arranged marriages of children.[25] A new movement has also arisen in England, "One Law for All. A Campaign against Shari'a Law in Britain," launched by Maryam Namazie, an advocate opposed to honor killing and other honor-related violence. She has launched this movement to oppose the use of Shari'a courts because they discriminate against women.[26] Additionally, schools in the Netherlands have been asked to be "more alert to honor violence,"[27] following research conducted for the Ministry of Integration.

U.S. law enforcement has made tremendous progress over the last forty years on issues related to violence against women. However, there are not yet any shelters for battered Muslim, Hindu, or Sikh girls or women who fear that they will be murdered for honor. A regular shelter for battered women does not specialize in honor killings, nor are there any provisions for foster families—Muslim or otherwise—who can protect girls targeted for murder by their biological families. Critics would oppose any such intervention, however, as a form of cultural oppression, for many victims may have to forfeit their identities in order to remain alive.

It will be more difficult to save adult Muslim women from honor killing because an adult immigrant may not have any regular contact with people outside her immediate family. Only if she survives injuries that require medical attention will she have contact with strangers who may try to help her rescue herself.

Religious education may also be necessary. According to this study, 90 percent of honor murders in the West are committed by Muslims against Muslims. The perpetrators may interpret the Qur'an and Islam incorrectly, either for malicious reasons or simply because they are ignorant of more tolerant Muslim exegesis or conflate local customs with religion.

Here, Muslim-American and Muslim-Canadian associations might play a role so long as they cease obfuscation and recognize the religious roots of the problem. Now is the time for sheikhs in the United States and Canada to state without qualification that killing daughters, sisters, wives, and cousins is against Islam. A number of feminist lawyers who work with battered women have credited pro-women sheikhs with helping them enormously. Sheikhs should publicly identify, condemn, and shame honor killers. Those sheikhs who resist doing so should be challenged.

As with issues relating to terrorism, law enforcement and civil servants must be mindful of which Muslim community activists they seek to engage. Many self-described civil rights organizations—CAIR or the Islamic Society of North America, for example—lean towards more radical interpretations of Islam. Groups such as the American Islamic Congress and the American Islamic Forum for Democracy advocate for gender equality and human rights, [28] but because their efforts against radicalism antagonize Saudi Arabia and other sources of funding, they often lack resources. Given alternative funding, they might be willing to assist in an effort to educate Muslims against honor murder.

U.S. and Canadian immigration authorities should also be aware of the issue. They should inform potential Muslim immigrants and new Muslim citizens that it is against the law to beat girls and women, that honor killings are crimes, and that both the murderers and their accomplices can and will be charged. Cultural equivalency will provide no excuse as it sometimes does in more permissive societies such as Great Britain and the Netherlands. As long as Islamist advocacy groups continue to obfuscate the problem, and government and police officials accept their inaccurate versions of reality, women will continue to be killed for honor in the West; such murders may even accelerate. Unchecked by Western law, their blood will be on society's hands.

Phyllis Chesler is emerita professor of psychology and women's studies at the Richmond College of the City University of New York and co-founder of the Association for Women in Psychology and the National Women's Health Network.

[1] Citation for honor murders drawn from Ellen Francis Harris, Guarding the Secret: Palestinian Terrorism and a Father's Murder of his Too-American Daughter (New York: Scribner, 1995); James Brandon and Salam Hafez, Crimes of the Community: Honor-Based Violence in the U.K. (London: The Centre for Social Cohesion, Jan. 2008), p. 13, 44; The Cleveland Plain Dealer, July 22, 26, 2000; Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Sept. 13, 1999; CBC News, Apr. 22, 2004, Mar. 1, 2005; The Indian Express (New Delhi), Jan. 30, 2005; The Asian Pacific Post (Vancouver, B.C.), July 24, 2003;, Sound Vision Foundation, Bridgeview, Ill., May 6, 2002; The New York Daily News, July 31, 2002; Stabroek News (Georgetown, Guyana), Dec. 3, 2003; Canwest News Service (Don Mills, Ont.), July 8, 2008; The Rochester Chronicle and Democrat, Apr. 25, 2004, July 17, 2008; The Washington Times, Jan. 3, 2008; The Dallas Morning News, Jan. 6, 9, 2008; The Chicago Tribune, July 8, 2008; CNN, July 7, 2008; The Daily Mail (London), May 2, June 12, 2007, Jan. 8, 2008; The Observer (London), Oct. 8, 2000, Nov. 21, 2004, June 20, 2006; The Daily Telegraph (London), Jan. 28, 2002, Feb. 27, 2005;, Oct. 2, 2003; BBC News, Sept. 30, 2003, May 4, Nov. 19, 2004, Apr. 8, 2006, Jan. 8, 2008; TechCentralStation (TCS Daily), Feb. 2, 2005; Time (European ed.), Oct. 11, 2004; CULCOM: Cultural Complexity in the New Norway, Feb. 17, 2006; Expatica (Amsterdam), Dec. 1, 2003, Apr. 27, 2005; The Times (London), Nov. 18, Dec. 4, 2004, Jan. 21, 2007, Feb. 3, Mar. 29, 2008; HiA Report, Humanity in Action Foundation, Washington, D.C., June 29, 2006; Deutsche Welle Radio (Bonn), May 1, 2005; The Guardian (London), May 8, 2003, July 15, 2006, May 24, 2008; Stern Magazine (Hamburg), Oct. 4, 2007; Associated Press, June 27, 2006; The Independent (London), May 7, 2003, Feb. 21, 2007; The New York Times, Dec. 19, 2004, Dec. 4, 2005, Aug. 26, 2006; The Evening Standard (London), May 14, 2007; United Press International, July 3, 2003; The Sun (London), Jan. 23, 2008; FOX News, Jan. 5, 2007; International Herald Tribune (Paris), Dec. 1, 2005; The Daily Times (Lahore), July 3, 2004.

[2] "Chapter 3: Ending Violence against Women and Girls: 'Honor' Killings," The State of World Population, 2000, United Nations Population Fund.
[3], Jan. 11, 2007.
[4] The Daily Times, Sept. 20, 2008.
[5] Brandon and Hafez, Crimes of the Community, pp. 143-6.
[6] Yotam Feldner, "'Honor' Murders—Why the Perps Get off Easy," Middle East Quarterly, Dec. 2000, pp. 41-50.
[7] Ibid.
[8], Aug. 24, 2000.
[9] Sheila Musaji, "The Death of Aqsa Parvez Should Be an Interfaith Call to Action," The American Muslim, Dec. 14, 2007.
[10] Fox, Dec. 12, 2007.
[11], July 9, 2008.
[12], Oct. 14, 2008.
[13] "Homicide Trends in the U.S.: Intimate Homicide, 1976 -2005," U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics, July 11, 2007, accessed Oct. 2, 2008.
[14] Unni Wikan, "The Honor Culture," Karl-Olov Arnstberg and Phil Holmes, trans., accessed Sept. 23, 2008, originally published as En Fraga Om Hedre (A question of honor), Cajsa Mitchell, trans. (Stockholm: Ordfront Forlag AB, 2005), accessed Dec. 12, 2008.
[15] The Boston Globe, Sept. 12, 2008.
[16] New York: Springer, 1984.
[17] Author e-mail interview with Lenore Walker, Sept. 27, 2008.
[18] Ibid.
[19] Brandon and Hafez, Crimes of the Community, p. 94.
[20] Today's Zaman, July 12, 2008.
[21] Wikan, "The Honor Culture."
[22] Daniel Pipes, "Which Has More Islamist Terrorism, Europe or America?" The Jerusalem Post, July 3, 2008.
[23] "Combating Patriarchal Violence against Women—Focusing on Violence in the Name of Honor," The Swedish Ministry of Justice and The Swedish Ministry for Foreign Affairs, Stockholm, Dec. 7-8, 2004, p. 51.
[24] International Herald Tribune, Hong Kong ed., Oct. 20, 1997; The Observer, Nov. 21, 2004; "So-called Honor Crimes," Committee on Equal Opportunities for Women and Men, Council of Europe, Paris and Brussels, Mar. 7, 2003.
[25] Brandon and Hafez, Crimes of the Community, pp. 13, 44.
[26] Author e-mail with Maryam Namazie, Dec. 1, 2008.
[27] Nederlands Dagblad (Barneveld), Nov. 19, 2008; Islam in Europe, Nov. 19, 2008.
[28] "Milestones," American Islamic Congress website, accessed Dec. 10, 2008; "Founding Principles and Resolutions," American Islamic Forum for Democracy website, accessed Dec. 10, 2008.


Colleen L (3)
Monday February 17, 2014, 1:02 pm
So sad. I wish this would end. Thanks Beth

Kenneth Davies (0)
Monday February 17, 2014, 1:31 pm
Sadly noted

Phil P (94)
Monday February 17, 2014, 1:42 pm
Unfortunately another country tied for the designation of "Anus of the World" and best to be avoided at all costs.

Birgit W (160)
Monday February 17, 2014, 1:58 pm
I wonder how those morons thought of the word "Honour Killing." Where is the HONOUR? Those bastards should all be thrown to jail.

Nicole L (79)
Monday February 17, 2014, 2:24 pm
Sickening. Noted.

marie C (163)
Monday February 17, 2014, 2:28 pm
Well what more can I say you have all written my feelings and thoughts
I do find it hard to believe the world is not up in arms about some of the Islamist practices but it just gos on and on more and more ignorant suffering when will it end
Thanks for posting Beth


Eleonora Oldani (37)
Monday February 17, 2014, 4:00 pm
To Gene - as you seem to know so well what women can and can't do and specifically that "Women are less than second class citizens in any Sharia based country and at every moment in danger of their very lives." ... do you mind telling us in which Islamic countries you have lived so far and how long?

Thanks a lot!

Walter F (128)
Monday February 17, 2014, 4:10 pm
These men who wrong and murder women are beyond evil I these bastards and those like them are evil incarnate ;If there is a satan they are his children;if a hell there is a place tor them.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Monday February 17, 2014, 4:13 pm
I'm once again (not) surprised how unabatted this co-ordinated bashing of one religion can go ahead here on Care2 although the COC are quite clear.

Reading some lengthy postings here the direction is clear - the outrage about the killings serves as a smoke-screen to defame and dehumanize Islam and those people who follow this particular religion.

Would anyone think of doing this with the Jewish religion just because the Orthodox among them adhered until not too long ago to the same "tradition"? Or the Catholics in Italy, Spain, Greece who often still do the same to their women folks? Or the Christian Balkan states where it is still common up to today?

What always gets me is that 1.5 Billion people (Muslims) are held responsible for the backwardness of some people who happen to be Islamic too.

Take e.g. Female Genital Mutilation - of the 46 Islamic countries less than 10 know and practice this horrible crime. Yet ... is anyone really surprised that it is always FGM = Islam? Not really, right? After all it is practiced among Christians in Africa incl. Egypt, among the people of "Beita Israel", among pagans ... but it is only Islam that has to take the heat despite the fact that this is banned in Islam incl. several Fatwa (religious rulings) from the highest Authority - the ones from the Rabbinical Authority and the Christian ones are still outstanding - and despite the fact that the absolute majority of Islamic countries do not even know this practice!

Happy bashing!

Rose Becke (141)
Monday February 17, 2014, 5:26 pm
This happens everywhere

Beth S (330)
Monday February 17, 2014, 5:56 pm

I had written two paragraphs and they just disappeared and the entire tab was replaced by something about buzz. So I’ll try again.

First, your name is very unusual and pretty and reminds me of a combination of names. (I have never said anything like this on C2, but I’ve never seen your name before.)

Second, as I was reading your questions, I thought that many of them were fair, although, as far as I know, a number of your assumptions and assertions are incorrect. I wanted to answer each question with the seriousness I assumed that you were asking.

Then I came to the end, and I realized that these aren’t quite serious questions, but just an emotional lead-up to your quite sarcastic and judgmental “Happy Bashing.”

First off, no one posting the articles has a dislike for Muslims per se, many of us know and are friendly with and like quite a few Muslims and ex-Muslims. Some people posting are ex-Muslims, and know very well about that which they are speaking.

We have been studying the ideology of Islam, and that we don’t like for many good reasons.

We have different reasons for writing and/or noting, but one of the main ones, for me, at least is something you brought up, and that was would anyone think of doing this do Jews (Orthodox – or otherwise).

And the answer is yes. People DO do this to Jews, many here in the guise of anti-Zionism. Their sole focus is on seeing only bad in Israel (and the correlation of “Anti-Zionism to anti-Semitism is quite high), yet they see nothing bad in the far worse totalitarian governments in the world, especially Sharia-based governments. The bashing goes on weekly here at Care2. So this is an attempt to let people know just what does go on with these governments and what Sharia in many cases provokes its followers to do.

Secondly, many of us have heard videos of Islamic imams and other leaders all over the Islamic world who bash Jews regularly, as do their followers. Why do they do this? Because Islam itself does it.

If you are not acquainted with what Islam has to say about Jews (and Christians and polytheists, too), it might be a real eye opener.

You might not also realize that the Qur’an's verses of peace and kindness towards non-Muslims were ALL abrogated and replaced with verses of hatred. As far as the world’s 1.6 billion Muslims are concerned, most of them learn to hate non-Muslims, believe Allah turned Jews into pigs and apes, and I’ll be happy to give you a list of sources that show just how absolutely hateful and murderous Islam and its leaders are towards Jews and others.

Most people don’t have a clue, as it sounds like you don’t. So when dealing with an ideology that’s stated goal all over the Islamic world and non-Islamic world is to take over and make the entire globe Sharia-compliant, or make non-believers pay Jizya, or kill them, this is a very important thing to learn about.

Ignorant self-righteousness like yours is very much not the correct response, but a studied and honest view of the Islam – not the overt lies given by Islamists to a gullible public who want to believe that all religions are essentially good -- and what Islamic leaders are saying and doing is extremely important.

As we are limited to largely posting articles about what is going on with Islam’s followers and how their actions are influenced by what they learn from their religious leaders and Islamic texts, this is not only an important counter to the deliberate taqiyya -- Islamically encouraged deception to advanced the aims of Islam, but is something that everyone should be aware of and know what has been, is, and will continue to be coming down the road.

Beth S (330)
Monday February 17, 2014, 9:14 pm
A few words on the Islamic view of love and the treatment of the wife-slave.

"1. Polygamy

Polygamy destroys romance. Is she the one, the only one, who has captured your heart, delighted your eyes, put a spring in your step and filled your heart with joy? No, she is just one in a series. The Qur’an tells Muslim men to “marry those that please you of women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then one…” (Qur’an 4:3). It seems fair: a man who cannot be just with multiple wives should restrict himself to just one, but in such matters, what constitutes just behavior is all too subjective and elusive. Islamic authorities have generally understood this to mean equal economic support and equal time in the beds of each.

Yet even if all this were scrupulously managed, an equal distribution of affection wouldn’t be possible. Even Muhammad favored his child bride Aisha over all of his other wives. A hadith has a Muslim making bold to ask him, “Who is the most beloved person to you?” Muhammad answered with one word: Aisha. (Bukhari 5.62.3662) What might his other wives have thought of this?

But the human heart longs to love and be loved uniquely, and this desire cannot be extinguished. In Constantinople: City of the World’s Desire, 1453–1924, Philip Mansel’s elegantly written history of Constantinople after the Muslim conquest, he offers a moving case in point involving the daughter of the sultan of the Ottoman Empire:

Yet even these most powerful and privileged of Ottoman might be tortured by jealousy. Adile Sultan, daughter of the great nineteenth-century reformer Mahmud II, married an army officer, Mehmed Ali Pasha. They were in love. One day at the fashionable meeting-place in the Golden Horn called the Sweet Waters of Europe, she attracted his attention. Since she was thickly veiled, he did not know who she was. He dropped a scented handkerchief at her feet. That night the Pasha found the handkerchief on the pillow beside his sleeping wife.

One day, according to Mansel, Adile Sultan traveled to a mosque far from her home. Taking advantage of the celebrated Oriental hospitality, she stopped for a rest at a mansion that was on the way. While enjoying coffee and sherbet set out by her hostess, she was astonished to find that her hostess, too, was the wife of Mehmed Ali Pasha!

She said nothing, however, and returned home — where, Mansel says, “thereafter she lived in seclusion, writing poems of increasing sadness. When she died in 1898, she was buried beside her husband. They never referred to his infidelity.” In Islamic terms, it wasn’t infidelity at all. But nonetheless, it gnawed at Adile Sultan’s heart.

It doesn’t take much knowledge of human nature to recognize that it’s a story that has been repeated and is still being repeated in polygamous households the world over.

2. Female genital mutilation

Muhammad is said to have justified the cutting of women’s genitals: “A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.” (Sunan Abu Dawud 41.5251) The problem with this is that the distinction between cutting and cutting severely is subjective.

There is also justification for the practice in Islamic law: “Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) (by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the bazr ‘clitoris’ [this is called khufaadh ‘female circumcision’]).” — ‘Umdat al-Salik e4.3, translated by Mark Durie, The Third Choice, p. 64

While female genital mutilation is by no means universally practiced in Muslim countries, it is not hard to find Islamic authorities around the world today justifying this barbarity on Islamic grounds. The idea behind it is that it reduces a woman’s sexual response, thus making her easier to control. The implications of this for romance are obvious. What should be a joyful celebration of mutual self-giving becomes the painful duty of a slave.

3. Sex on demand

“Slave” is indeed the apposite word. Islamic tradition has Muhammad saying: “If a husband calls his wife to his bed [i.e. to have sexual relation] and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning” (Bukhari 4.54.460) and “By him in Whose Hand lies my life, a woman can not carry out the right of her Lord, till she carries out the right of her husband. And if he asks her to surrender herself [to him for sexual intercourse] she should not refuse him even if she is on a camel’s saddle” (Ibn Majah 1854).

Clearly Islamic marriage is not a relationship of two human beings to each other, a community of love, but a relationship between a servant and her master. Servant/master romances may be the stuff of bodice-rippers and bad period weepers, but they can only work in real life if on some level the two parties are equals. In Islam, a husband and wife are never equals unless they ignore the various Islamic laws that ensure that they aren’t.

4. Wife-beating

This is the worst of all. The Qur’an says:

“Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God’s guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them.” (4:34)

Islamic apologists routinely claim that the Qur’an’s command to beat disobedient women must be applied only with the most harmless of implements — i.e., a toothstick, as per a weak hadith. However, Muhammad’s example is normative for Muslims, since he is an “excellent example of conduct” (Qur’an 33:21) — and according to a canonical hadith, Muhammad’s favorite wife, his child bride Aisha, reports that Muhammad struck her. Once he went out at night after he thought she was asleep, and she followed him surreptitiously. Muhammad saw her, and, as Aisha recounts: “He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?” (Muslim 2127) Aisha herself said it: “I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women.” (Bukhari 7.72.715)

Domestic abuse is found everywhere, but only in Islam is it given divine sanction. And of course, it is inimical to romance. The woman who lives in fear of it cannot love. She cannot even relax. The threat of it places her relationship with her husband on the basis not of love, but of fear…."

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Monday February 17, 2014, 10:25 pm
@ Eleonora - "dehumanize Islam"? Islam is an ideology, NOT A PERSON! When you use a term to describe a person while talking about an ideology, it shows at the very least your thinking cap isn't on.

You fail to address the many citations presented by Beth, direct from Islamic doctrine which show that honor killings are not an aberration in Islam, rather they are ingrained in Islam because of Islamic doctrine.

As for your irrelevant comment about "which Muslim country have you lived in", let me first turn it back on you. You've lived in China? Then how can you speak of human rights violations there? You've lived in every Muslim country? Then how can you try to defend Muslim countries? Your reasoning makes no sense because one doesn't need to live in a Muslim country or countries to read data and doctrine relevant to Muslim countries. Do you even understand that Al-Azhar is the number one school of Islamic learning in the world for 1,000 years? THEY are the ones who certify the Shari'a manual Umdat Al-Salik which teaches that honor killing is ISLAMIC. You're all of a sudden more knowledgeable than the top school in Islam? Get real and stop deceiving yourself.

Secondly, in terms of living in a Muslim country, my close female friend is Pakistani Muslim. She was born in and spent her whole life with her family in Pakistan. As an adult, she moved to the US. When I asked her about life in Pakistan she emphatically stated, "WOMEN ARE WORTH NOTHING IN PAKISTAN." She then went on to tell me more about life in this 97% Muslim country run by Shari'a law. Wives who go to the police to report being beaten are told by the police "so what, you're married. That's his right to beat you." A Muslim father chopped up his young daughter into pieces on the kitchen table with a meat cleaver, like a piece of meat, and took the body pieces in a black bag to the police and said "she talked back to me." He walked away. It goes on and on like that. Other women from other Muslim countries give similar accounts of the dehumanizing of females in Islam. IT IS ISLAM WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEHUMANIZING OF FEMALES IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES!

The "perfect model of conduct" false prophet Muhammad made many statements which shows the denigration of females, and acted on such:

Sahih Muslim 2127 - his favorite wife Aisha (the child he deflowered when she was 9 and he 54) reports that he struck her on her chest causing her pain

Sunan Abu Dawud 2142 - Muhammad said, "A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife".

Qur'an 4:34 and 38:44 - wifebeating is part of Islamic doctrine. All the Tafsir on 38:44 show this aya is about the Muslim god Allah telling the Islamic Job to keep his oath to beat his wife 100 times

Bukhari Vol. 7, Book 62, Number 30 - "Allah’s apostle said: ‘Evil omen is in the woman, the house and the horse."’

Sahih al-Bukhari Vol. 7, Book 62, Number 113 - "Allah’s Apostle said: ‘The woman is like a rib: if you try to straighten her, she will break; so if you want to get benefit from her, do so while she still has some crookedness."’

Bukhari Vol. 7, Book 62, Number 33 - "The prophet said: ‘...I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."’

Abu Dharr reported: THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH (may peace be upon him) SAID: When any one of you stands for prayer and there is a thing before him equal to the back of the saddle that covers him and in case there is not before him (a thing) equal to the back of the saddle, HIS PRAYER WOULD BE CUT OFF BY (passing of an) ASS, WOMAN, AND BLACK DOG. I said: O Abu Dharr, what feature is there in a black dog which distinguish it from the red dog and the yellow dog? He said: O, son of my brother, I asked the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) as you are asking me, and he said: The black dog is a devil. (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1032)

Abu Huraira reported: THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH (may peace be upon him) SAID: A WOMAN, AN ASS AND A DOG DISRUPT THE PRAYER, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that. (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1034)

Islam teaches hatred of dogs, and Muhammad says a woman nullifies a Muslim man's prayers just like a dog would. This is why females pray behind males in mosques!

In fact, females are lower than dogs in Islam. Even with Muhammad's hatred of dogs, he still didn't command the washing of their urine away. But a baby girl's urine? To be washed away!

Narrated Abu Hurraira: …..narrated Hamza bin ‘Abdullah: My father said. “During the lifetime of Allah’s Apostle, the dogs used to urinate, and pass through the mosques (come and go), nevertheless they never used to sprinkle water on it (urine of the dog.)” (Sahih Al-Bukhari 1:174)

The Prophet (saw) said concerning the urine of a nursing infant: “...the urine of a girl should be washed.” (Sunan Ibn Majah, hadith no: 522 and 525)

Angels won't enter a house with a dog, kill the dogs, but wash dog urine? No. However, wash infant girl urine? YES!



Evelyn B (62)
Monday February 17, 2014, 10:31 pm
You seem determined to keep focus on religion.
Many Muslims - practicing Muslims - are against practices that are rooted in culture predating Islam, in geographic areas. And in the geographic areas where such practices are common, you'll find the practices being done by Christians as well as Muslims. And you'll even find family law of Christians that tolerates such practices.
One of the primary persons to lift the lid on honour crimes was a Jordanian (Muslim) journalist.
The Pakistan article being criticised for NOT stressing Islam comes out of a country predominantly Muslim - also a country where there are many (Muslims) fighting such crimes.

If you insist on polarising these questions around Islam, you will undermine the efforts of those fighting such practices - because you'll put Muslims on the defensive against Crhistians/ Jews/ Westerners.

Attack the practices - YES.
Turn the attack against religion - NO
Change comes about through respect and dialogue, not by aggression

Inge B (202)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 2:09 am
Stop all violence and the killing of everyone and everything, People, Animals and Nature. be humble and compassionate, why not Buddhist? or just human.

Make LOVE not hate

Past Member (0)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 3:41 am
No offence to anyone cause there are many decent men around but unfortunately we are still living in a masculine society.
Women in certain communities/states/countries are considered as a commodity/lesser being even in First world countries let alone in places where poverty, ignorance and religious fanaticism are rampant.

Thomas M. (0)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 6:59 am
NO RELIGION IN ANY NATION SHOULD HAVE THE POWER TO DESIGNATE PARENTS AS A DEATH SQUAD FOR THEIR OWN CHILDREN FOR ANY REASON. Sharia law should not circumvent the rule of law in any nation on the face of the Earth. I find it offensive that Pakistan whines about collateral damage from drones, but does nothing to the stop the male dominated Taliban from promoting fear and shame against parents who don't put their daughters to death for breathing their polluted air. The shame should fall on any who believe in a religion that allows honor killings.

Martha Ferris (48)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 8:54 am
Can't we keep this simple? Can we stop debating religion? Violence against others, except in self defense to prevent injury or death at the hands of another, is not acceptable any where or any time!

Beth S (330)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 9:14 am

Agreed, Martha. Totally not acceptable. However, this is 1) a particular type of violence that is associated with an ideology and 2) ignoring the Qur'anic imperatives and the Islamic culture that makes it NORMATIVE behavior is something that must be acknowledged if we have any chance of changing it.

Sometimes these realities are painful for many reasons. They challenger our previously held assumptions about how things work, which in turn destroys our constructs of our reality and means that one must assimilate new information that contradicts our own paradigms. Psychologically, this can be an extremely difficult thing to face and resolve.

Syd H (48)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 9:52 am

Violence against women is violence and it amazes me how some here can be so supposedly "against" violence for women in Islamic countries but debase it in other counties as just what happens in every culture. Pfft! No, it hardly ever gets prosecuted in other countries, especially the US. 40 years ago there were hardly even any support system for women who suffered but thanks to dedicated women there are now shelters and *some* laws and procedures to protect and deal but they are wholly insufficient. 9 women who call a shelter are turned away for every 1 that gets in. And as I posted above, there are still 3 women killed everyday in the US. Why the hell is that if prosecution is so effective?

Further, in Saddam Hussain's Iraq these honor killings were not only illegal they were actively pursued and dealt with so the incidence was very rare. It's only been since George Bush's intervention "for the people" that it's returned. Such a great guy, eh?

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. These concerted effort posts by this gang of haters who come in and post at the same time and note each other up to popular status are on a mission as religious as any they claim to be warning us about.

There obviously is no room in these screeds for discussions. These posts by the gang are only about spreading hate.

Having been in several Islamic dominant countries and seen for myself who the people are, I will continue to stand up against your defamation. So call me whatever hateful names you will, it only illustrates more what kind of evil you are pushing and just what kind of people you are yourselves.

Islam, the American way
Islam in America: A new generation of Muslim Americans separate what is cultural, what is religious, and what is American, finding that the 'straight path' isn't the same path for all.
Christian Science Monitor By Lee Lawrence

Listening to immigration attorney Muna Jondy talk about growing up in Flint, Mich., it's easy to imagine her as a teenager, eyes ablaze, hands on hips, confronting her Syrian-born parents with her all-American attitude. A petite woman with a strong, expressive face, she sits cross-legged on her couch and leans forward to recount the day, at age 13, that she wanted to go to the movies with a friend.

Ms. Jondy says her mother, a devout Muslim, responded "like I had asked to snort cocaine." She was incredulous, and Jondy recalls her asking: "Did you just ask that? Did you just say that out loud?"

Jondy had already started to cover her hair with a head scarf out of modesty. She never questioned the family's dietary restrictions. She prayed faithfully, and during Ramadan she fasted. But not go to the movies at the mall with her female friends? She balked: "Really? Is that Arab or is that Islam?"

Going to the movies is "just for loose people," her mother replied.

"Maybe in the Middle East way back in your day," Jondy thought.

She might be Arab by ethnicity, "but this does not define me," Jondy told herself. And ever since, she has parsed family beliefs, separating cultural expectations from religious tenets.

In this respect, Jondy is typical of the largest and fastest-growing demographic of Muslim Americans: the 59 percent who are between the ages of 18 and 39. This includes many who have come of age in the United States and are as culturally American as the 37 percent of adult Muslims who, like Jondy, were born here and are, in turn, raising American-born children.

Nevertheless, the perception of Muslim as "other" – and a dangerous or suspicious other, at that – persists, stoked by post-9/11 insecurities. One of the reasons is that most Americans know little about Islam and, in many cases, don't know a Muslim personally. When they do, stereotypes fall away, revealing a diverse and dynamic population that is doing what Americans have historically done: figuring out how to be themselves.

'Freakishly normal'

Lively and popular, Fatimah Popal didn't regard community service as an onerous requirement when she was in high school. She enjoyed spreading cheer in a local nursing home, organizing interfaith programs, and being part of trash pickup crews in parks.

But after "the horrible attacks of Sept. 11," her head scarf, or hijab, didn't just mark her as different from her predominantly Christian neighbors in rural Pennsylvania. It marked Ms. Popal – then a sophomore – as suspect. "Are you bin Laden's wife?" a schoolmate hissed at her in the schoolyard.

The slur was an isolated and minor incident, she says, but no less alienating. And statistics show that, far from dying off, this and worse kinds of Islamophobia have persisted, fueled by the acts of an extremist Muslim fringe that uses radical interpretations of Islamic Scriptures to justify the murder of Americans as enemies of Islam. They include some US-born Muslims such as Nidal Malik Hasan, the Army psychiatrist whose shooting rampage at Fort Hood, Texas, in 2009 left 12 dead and 31 wounded. To extremists worldwide, they are heroes. To the majority of Muslim Americans, they are what Popal calls "wackos."

According to a 2010 Gallup poll, 89 percent of Muslims in the US said that individuals or small groups were never justified in targeting and killing civilians, significantly more than the 71 percent of Protestants or Roman Catholics who thought this. Muslims were also the least inclined to think such acts were even "sometimes justified" – 11 percent compared with 27 percent of Catholics and 26 percent of Protestants.

Yet the stereotype of Muslims as violent extremists lives on, says Mahmoud Abdel-Baset of the Islamic Center of Southern California, because everybody is fascinated by "the sheer outrageous nature of the things [terrorists] do. In the news, you only see the shocking things."

One reason is that it sells. Witness the ongoing success of "Homeland," a Showtime series in which Islamic extremists plot the demise of Americans. A stark contrast to that is the reality TV show "All-American Muslim," in which five families plod through everyday life situations. Fouad Zaban coaches high school football and wrestles with how to keep his team fit when most players are fasting for Ramadan. (Answer: Schedule practices after sundown.) The Amen family is divided over the prospect of unmarried Suehaila pursuing a career away from home, while snazzy Nina Bazzy dreams out loud of opening her own nightclub. The series lasted only one season, partly because its protagonists, as a New York Times reviewer put it, came "across as almost freakishly normal."

Indeed, a 2011 Pew Research Center study found that Muslims don't differ much from the general US population. They tend to be younger, less likely to divorce, and more conservative when it comes to such things as homosexuality. But overall, Pew statistics show that the country's estimated 2.75 million to 7 million Muslims mirror general American traits and attitudes:

•55 percent of Muslims are married, as is 54 percent of the general US population.

•26 percent have a college degree, as do 28 percent of their fellow Americans.

•20 percent, like 17 percent of all Americans, are self-employed or own small businesses.

•American Muslim predilections are about the same as the general population's in such areas as watching TV (58 percent of Muslims versus 62 percent of the general population), following sports (48 percent versus 47 percent), and playing video games (18 percent versus 19 percent).

•90 percent of Muslims in the US agree that women should be able to work outside the home, and 68 percent feel gender makes no difference in political leaders (versus 97 percent and 72 percent in the US generally).

•Weekly mosque attendance (47 percent) is comparable to Christian church attendance (45 percent), and a majority of Muslims (63 percent) and Christians (64 percent) see no conflict between being devout and living in modern society.

•35 percent of Muslims along with 30 percent of Christians believe their religion is the only true path; this is slightly higher (38 percent) among US-born Muslims but significantly lower than evangelical Christians (51 percent).

•49 percent of Muslims identified first with their faith over nationality, as did 46 percent of Christians.

Moreover, Muslims run the gamut in occupations – from doctors to software gurus, grocers to taxi drivers, engineers to entrepreneurs. Ethnically, they are Arab, African, South and Southeast Asian, African-American, Hispanic, European, even East and Central Asian. Though most are Sunni (65 percent) and some Shiite (11 percent), the sects and schools of thought in and outside these branches can be as distinct as Southern Baptists are from Catholics.

As one might expect with any population, the level of practice is also mixed. While researching "Muslim American Women on Campus: Undergraduate Social Life and Identity," anthropologist Shabana Mir found that members of Muslim Student Associations ranged from the highly devout to women who drink alcohol, go clubbing, and date. By the same token, many nonpracticing Muslims fasted during Ramadan and celebrated Eid, in the same way that some nonobservant Jews participate in Passover seders or some Christians show up at church only for Easter services.

The American-ness of diversity

This very diversity is, in and of itself, American.

"The only thing all Americans share is their citizenship," as Abdullahi An-Naim, author of "What is an American Muslim?," points out. A professor at Emory Law School in Atlanta, Mr. An-Naim says that he has far more in common with his liberal colleagues than with fellow Somali Muslim immigrants.

It used to be that, politically, African-American Muslims were "more concerned about civil liberties, minority rights, and those kinds of things," says Muslim Republican political strategist Mohammed Alo. Muslim immigrants, though, cared more about foreign policy.

But, as the immigrants' American-born children experience discrimination, they are increasingly finding common ground with their African-American peers. And as both groups raise families in the only home they have ever known, they want better schools, improved infrastructure, fair taxes, "pretty much what all Americans care about," Mr. Alo says.

Thus the concerns of Nasrin Rahman – a native of Bangladesh who has lived in Baltimore for 30 years – coincide more than ever with those of African-American convert Makéda Abdullah. They have never met, but they echo each other as they tell of raising daughters in a culture in which dating and tank tops – unacceptable to both – are the norm.

Today, only one of Ms. Rahman's daughters wears a hijab; the other, like Ms. Abdullah's child, has decided not to.

"It's between her and God," says Rahman.

Independently, the mothers say that they would never press their daughters on this issue – as long as they, says Rahman, "take the straight path."

Hijab litmus test

This is not always easy, and determining what is the straight Islamic path is ultimately highly individual. When chef Ismail Samad moved from his native Cleveland to his wife's hometown of Putney, Vt., for example, he had to figure out how to raise money to open a restaurant. The son of African-American converts to Islam, he is "100 percent Muslim," he says, weighing every decision in light of his faith. "We have a book," he says, referring to the Quran. "It is the best guide."

But like all Scriptures, the Quran is subject to interpretation. Some Islamic scholars say it is acceptable to pay interest on a loan but not receive it. Others believe the Quran only condemns usurious practices, while yet others say it prohibits all transactions involving interest.

After much study and reflection, Mr. Samad sided with the latter. So, he pursued no bank loan. Instead, he discovered "a community-supported restaurant model which happened to fit with my morals," he says. He shares ownership of The Gleanery with two non-Muslim partners who did, however, insist he accept credit cards. Samad asks forgiveness with every swipe.

In all other aspects, however, his restaurant conforms to his understanding of Islam. "My partners went in knowing that we could be making a third more on each dining room ticket if we served alcohol," he says. Instead, they agreed to a BYOB policy, and Samad gives them the corking charge proceeds "so that my share will not come out of those types of sales."

Also, there is no pork on The Gleanery's menu, only meat Samad considers halal along with produce from nearby farms' surpluses, which the restaurant also cans and sells. "A core principle of Islam," Samad says, "is you don't waste food."

Back in Cleveland, his parents are very proud of their son's choices, but they don't agree on everything. Samad, for instance, does not join them for Thanksgiving. He believes the prophet Muhammad instructed followers only to celebrate the Eids that mark the end of Ramadan and the yearly pilgrimage to Mecca.

Jondy, the Detroit lawyer, has also come to different conclusions from those of her siblings. As a community activist and indefatigable volunteer in Flint, Jondy's older sister wears a full-length robe known as jilbab and demurs from shaking hands with men, adhering to Islam's injunction not to touch anyone one could legally marry. Jondy, however, felt "not crisp" stepping before a judge to argue a case in the loose-flowing jilbab.

"Obviously it would be more modest to wear a tent," she says, "but Islam does not require us to look foreign." So Jondy kept the hijab but wears conservative suits. She also shakes hands with men. Refusing an extended hand, she believes, can send a hurtful signal, and for her "that is not Islam." But she avoids hugging men, signaling through body language that she prefers not to.

In Hamdan Azhar's world, the choices are different. He is 26, works in Manhattan, and, with his short-cropped beard and trendy glasses, looks very much at home in a popular coffee shop in New York's SoHo district. In college, he says, he was "more rigidly observant," carving out a teetotal alternative to the campus party scene.

Today, he works as a statistician, but he also blogs and freelances for print and radio. He is active in the Muslim Young Professionals ("Muppies") and is one of the Muslim Hipsters (or "Mipsterz"). So what happens now when friends and colleagues go out to a bar? He joins them. "But," he says, "I still don't drink. We all have ... lines we don't cross."

Since there is no overt sign that Mr. Azhar is Muslim, people might assume he just doesn't like alcohol. Women who cover, however, are obviously Muslim. When Sarah Ali meets colleagues she's dealt with via e-mail and phone, they're often taken aback. Born in Texas and raised in St. Louis, Ms. Ali speaks her mind and is quick to laugh, sometimes with delight at the effect she is having. "You're Sarah?!" colleagues exclaim, not expecting a woman who loops a scarf over her head, Pakistani-style.

An economist at the US Department of Agriculture, Ali, too, has had surprises since moving to the East Coast. At a professional gathering with fellow Muslims, she was taken aback when bearded men – her signal for conservative – extended their hand to shake hers. Or when, on Facebook, she noticed women who cover – hijabis – supporting same-sex marriage. She'd unconsciously assumed fellow hijabis would share her belief that homosexuality is a sin. Instead, she reports that some say, "No, I don't think it's a big deal; I think it should be legalized."

She also discovered that some women who don't cover their hair are as devout and as committed to Islam as she is.

"Now," she says, "I never use [the hijab] as a litmus test." Ironically, though, many eligible Muslim men seem to. Some privately admit that they assume a hijabi might feel uncomfortable talking to an unrelated male, so they don't initiate conversation. This is proving so frustrating, says Farah Ali, Sarah's sister, that she occasionally debates shedding her head scarf. A professor of Spanish at the University of Memphis in Tennessee, she wonders if this might render her more approachable – but would it make it more difficult to attract a devout Muslim man?

And would she feel guilty? Not too long ago she went to hear a renowned Islamic scholar speak. In answer to a question, the scholar said that it was OK for a woman to travel alone if she were doing it for work. But, "he also said it's probably best for women to avoid that line of work," Farah Ali adds. "I felt a pain." She and her sister like taking trips without the protective presence of a male relative, though they always stay at the homes of relatives and friends. "So am I going against my religion?"

Suddenly visible after 9/11

In African-American communities, "Muslim people, we were always the good people – the family people, who were praying, who were law-abiding," says Aisha Samad, mother of the Vermont restaurateur and member of the executive board of the Cleveland chapter of CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations. "People always respected you. But once 9/11 happened," she says, "everybody [saw us as] these enemies."

Previously, African-American Muslims and institutions focused mostly inward, working to counter the effects of racism and poverty on their inner-city neighborhoods. Now, in response to a rash of detentions and profiling, African-American Muslims have often taken the lead in speaking out for all Muslim Americans.

A shift also occurred in institutions founded by the immigrant community. In an effort to preserve their cultural and linguistic heritage, most deliberately remained insular.

"9/11 was a wake-up call," says Iranian-born Bahar Bastani, president of Dar-al-Zahra mosque in suburban St. Louis and professor of internal medicine at Saint Louis University. Al Qaeda's attack drove home the need "to be open to the society at large, be more visible, do more community service, and be more part of interfaith discourse," he says, because, as a minority, if things go wrong and people don't know you, "you can be easily stigmatized as those 'others.' "

Mosques began hosting community drives, and groups like the Islamic Society of North America stepped up their outreach. In St. Louis, Dr. Bastani and other Muslim physicians approached two Protestant churches in underserved, predominantly African-American neighborhoods. For five years now, they've hosted weekly Salam Free Clinics manned by doctors from Sunni and Bastani's own Shiite mosques. "We wanted to give back," says Bastani.

Many scholars believe that Muslim Americans will gradually integrate just as other religious minorities have before them. But some, such as Jen'nan Ghazal Read, associate professor of sociology and global health at Duke University in Durham, N.C., disagree. She has done extensive research on the Muslim American community and argues that 9/11 and the ensuing war on Islamic extremism have significantly complicated Muslims' journey in the US.

"There were always historical circumstances that made a group be 'other,' " she says, but these circumstances came and went. Today, Islamic extremism lingers as a threat worldwide and, at home, such things as "Homeland" continue to fuel negative stereotypes.

As Ms. Mir notes, "When people get stereotyped they begin to think there is a dichotomy between being an American and being Muslim."

Stereotypes typically invoke honor killings – which are culturally, not religiously, based – or stoning and lashing included in Islamic law (sharia). Most Muslim countries don't use these harsh punishments and, according to the Washington, D.C.-based Interfaith Alliance, Muslim Americans don't support them, either.

Beyond mosques: a new Islamic 'third space'

Zia Makhdom, an imam who until last year led a youth group at a Virginia mosque, says he worries about "some ultraconservative Muslims in America who, coupled with cultural baggage, have a very narrow understanding of Islam" incompatible with life in the US.

Like many others, he fears that the resulting marginalization leaves some young people vulnerable to the persuasive rhetoric of extremist leaders. The real threat, Ms. Read adds, does not reside in US mosques. It lurks in the harder-to-patrol space of the global Internet.

Far from posing a danger, Read believes that the country's 2,100-plus mosques (up by 74 percent since 2000, according to CAIR) can provide a vehicle for Muslims' integration, "similar to how religious institutions have helped other immigrant communities adapt to life in a new land," she says.

While some mosques are making a concerted effort in this regard, many of those under 40 regard them as little more than sites for weddings and convenient places to pray. When it comes to figuring out how to knit together their Muslim and American identities, they do not always find mosque leadership and message relevant, and many women chafe when required to pray hidden behind a partition or wall.

These issues generate lively discussions through publications, blogs, e-zines, and talk shows, not to mention animated conversations in social groups and in social media. No subject is left untouched, from fashion, food, and education to mosque politics, gender equality, domestic abuse, views on modest dress and polygyny (which occurs rarely and, when it does, mostly in the African-American community). When Mipsterz made a video featuring lithe models in hijabs skateboarding and strutting to the soundtrack of Jay Z's "Somewhere in America," everybody, pro and con, weighed in.

At a more formal level, changes are also afoot. There are a growing number of Islamic community centers, youth programs at mosques, and what many call "third spaces," alternative forums like MakeSpace in Alexandria.

Established a year ago, MakeSpace stresses openness, dialogue, and exploration to "put the unity back in community," as its website states. Friday prayers take place in the banquet hall of a local restaurant, and religious discussion groups known as halaqas convene in a borrowed office space. Imam Zia often leads the service, and his wife, Fatimah Popal, runs the women's halaqa, which on a recent Friday evening attracts some 45 women. They perch on chairs, share a couch, sit on the floor. Two tweens haul out homework, while a fat-cheeked baby gets passed around. Most everybody else is in their 20s and 30s, in college or in jobs. Their headdresses range from tight-fitting hijabs to loose scarves, some in solids – blue, purple, black – some in floral patterns. A handful are bareheaded.

In welcoming the group, Ms. Popal reiterates MakeSpace's only rule: "No judging," she says, smiling. "When someone shares a story, don't judge, or if you do, keep it to yourself. And with time, inshallah [Allah or God willing], you'll do some self-reflection."

The evening's theme is prayer, and after the speaker is done, comments and questions flow. "Prayer is like fiber," Popal chimes in at one point. "It makes you feel full." When some express guilt at not living up to the demand to pray five times a day, Popal again pipes up: "Just a reminder that Islam is not an all-or-nothing faith. It's like if you're failing in math, should you just not even try to do well in social studies? So I'm not wearing a hijab or I just drank yesterday at the club, or I have a boyfriend," she shrugs and smiles. "So we're weak in one area. Doesn't mean we should not try in another."

There is an exchange of advice – tips on how to stay focused and fold prayers into the workday – and the occasional gripe.

One woman says she feels judged at mosques because she is not dressed just right. "Or you're 30 and unmarried, I get that a lot," says another. Meanwhile, outside the mosque, they sometimes feel like anachronisms. "When other Muslims ask, 'Why are you praying? Why are you wearing a scarf?,' that's frustrating," says the economist, Ali, for whom this is a first MakeSpace gathering. "I have enough trouble with non-Muslims."

One of the motivations behind MakeSpace is to get beyond petty points of etiquette and set aside sectarian divides in order to help Americans be better Muslims. This is very much in line with the approach of the Islamic Center of Southern California, considered one of the country's most progressive mosques.

"The Islam we're taught is for all times," Imam Zia says. "If you have to totally isolate yourself from the larger society, that flies in the face of the argument that Islam is for all times and for all places."

Azhar and many of his peers prefer not to think in terms of assimilating, which presupposes "letting your original identity be supplanted," as Azhar says. Instead, he speaks of himself and other Muslim Americans devising ways of "feeling comfortable and fully part of the social fabric of the US." They are doing this with what Samad calls the "American edge. Growing up in America," he says, "we know, 'go, show who you are.' "


Past Member (0)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 10:16 am

Those American Muslims left the Islamic countries for the "Great Satan" knowing what to expect, and many of them were ready to change or open to change.

Honour killings happens in North American Muslim community as well, but as these crimes are persecuted, they do not serve as "role models". In some Muslim countries, such murders would be considered acceptable and murderers allowed to go free. I personally know one such story.

As long, as Islam condones killing of children and there are orthodox followers of such Islam, those who care about women have a great issue with it.

Islam must be reformed to bring elements of humanity and compassion into it.


Syd H (48)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 10:18 am

According to the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Old Testament), when God called forth his people out of slavery in Egypt and back to the land of their forefathers, he directed them to kill all the Canaanite clans who were living in the land (Deut. 7.1-2; 20.16-18). The destruction was to be complete: every man, woman, and child was to be killed. The book of Joshua tells the story of Israel’s carrying out God’s command in city after city throughout Canaan.

Hmmm... The old testament advocates the killing of both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21)

Some more of the loving God of apparently the only way... (for the gang here):

"And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts." (Exodus 11:4-5)

"And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead." (Exodus 12:29-30)


"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God..." (Deuteronomy 13: 5)

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;" (Deuteronomy 13: 6)

"Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:8-9)

"Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword." (Deuteronomy 13:15)

These severe laws commanded the members of the Hebrew religion to murder even their own children if they did not worship Yahweh (God).

These Bible words can justify, to a fanatical fundamentalist believer, the killing of friends or family simply because they may fail to change their beliefs.

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

"Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:16-18)

Maybe I should continue...?


Beth S (330)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 11:03 am
We don't have the responsibility to address ALL crimes against women in ALL cultures. There are many, many C2 members that do. Do you, Syd, attack them because they didn't point out crimes against Islam? Or do you just troll around and criticize anyone who criticizes the Ideology of Islam and the heinous acts its most pious followers do?

You actually seem to be trying VERY HARD to get people not to think about the victimization of Muslim women by Muslim men.


Otherwise you wouldn't be here and there always trying to change the subject.

We want people to know what Islam says about MUSLIM women, what it says about non-Muslims. It's horrific. The most dangerous ideology on the face of the earth.

And people NEED and DESERVE to know.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 11:17 am

Re: Gays
Neither Judaism, nor Christianity directly follows The Old Testament quotes that you listed. By Divine hand, or by Man's hand, these religions explain the quotes differently, and, as you know, Pride parades take place in many cities in Israel and countries, populated mostly by Christians.

As far, as I know - there was not a single Pride parade in a Muslim Country.

Re: Unbelievers:
The quote to kill a false prophet has nothing to do with killing unbelievers. Please remind me of any false prophet, killed in Christian or Jewish world in the last 100 years. (Compare it with Iranian poet, recently hanged for his atheism).

Re: Ethnic Cleansing
It is still quite a common practice, going on in countries of all religions. Muslim countries are no exception. What did you want to say?

You are missing or avoiding the point, Syd. And the point is very straightforward and simple.

MODERN teachings of ISLAM, and ONLY ISLAM, condone killing of women for the sake of protecting family reputation. For Humanity sake, these teachings must be reformed not to be treated as hate and violence propaganda.

Gene J (290)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 1:41 pm
"To Gene - as you seem to know so well what women can and can't do and specifically that "Women are less than second class citizens in any Sharia based country and at every moment in danger of their very lives." ... do you mind telling us in which Islamic countries you have lived so far and how long?"

None, Ms. Oldani, my familarity with these practices comes from stories, news outlets, from all manner of places - it isn't hard to document since many of these stories of the peaceful religion are on YouTube. Tell me, is Malala safe, revered and protected? Or still under sentence of death for the temerity of wanting an education? I think all religions harmful, it is just that Islam is the only practicing as part of its creed honor killings, beheadings and jihad as a way of life. Have you looked at what its adherents are doing to each other in the middle east? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Sure, there are many Muslims who do not condone such things but they are strangely silent. Why do we need a CAIR for instance? Shouldn't we have a Council for American Lutheran Relations too? Why is CAIR silent on the atrocities perpetrated by SOME Muslims around the world every day? But quick to jump here on the slightest hint of what it considers an insult to Islam?

So, no I've not lived in a Sharia controlled country - I wouldn't EVEN visit one, EVER. I don't consider places where one might be blown up while having a sandwich suitable for visiting, but that's just me. There are certainly other crimes and criminals, many, but they do what they do because that is what they are, not in the name of religion. It is the terrorists and honor killers who debase Islam, not those of us who disagree with their actions.

And, Syd, yes the first five books of the Old Testament are bloody, so is most of the rest of it. I don't hold it as my truth either. For me, all relgions were created by a few men, to control other men and all women, and make a nice living for doing so. None of it, is "divinely" inspired. That makes God a small and vengeful as humanity and that is just wrong, She is much larger and more loving than anything we humans could dream up or have tried to. And no one is liviing by the Old Testament anymore, nor using it as civil law, as is not the case with Sharia. Vast difference for me. We're in the 21st century now, we have knowledge we did not have centuries ago, and it behooves us all to update our thinking and our treatment of each to these times. There has never been needed but one rule, and if everyone lived it, violence would end in the same instant. It is a better version of the Golden rule, the Platinum rule, which is do unto others as they would have you do unto them. If we all lived that, peace would come to this planet. But we are too small and selfish to live so large an idea, too filled with the desire for bloodlust and power to empower and love everyone, not just those like us. We are one world and one people and if we ever truly come to understand that, we will have begun the journey to becoming a civilization. We are not nearly there yet.


Carol D (346)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 4:08 pm
Beth...WONDERFUL and informative replies here!! And Syd is a troll that squirms around to any persons topic that she disagrees with and is disrespectful at it as well!

It's truly sad there are so many people who do not understand what Islam really is all about! It does not take a person with a degree to understand it is one evil and disgusting ideology! I don't even consider it a Religion because of the hate for life in general that is in it! And the abuse and the encouragement of murder in it!! And to claim the other Religions of today are as bad as Islam takes a very stretch of the imagination! After all how many deaths have been at the hands of Christians today or Jews or any other Religion for that matter "just because people would not conform to them!?" An tallies out there!? It's unbelievable how people can come up with such an accusation!

Beth S (330)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 5:33 pm
Good question, Carol. Here's a tally of the last thirty - 30 - DAYS of Islamic terrorist attacks from The Religion of Peace. It's pretty dismal, and each 30 day period before it is numbingly similar. A lust for blood and death:

Date------------ Country----City------Killed----Injured--------------Description

2014.02.16 Pakistan Jacobabad 7 35 Militants fighting for an Islamic state bomb a train, killing seven passengers, including four children.
2014.02.16 Egypt Taba 4 13 Three tourists and their driver are killed as Shahid suicide bomber detonates on board their bus.
2014.02.16 Tunisia Jendouba 4 4 Ansar al-Sharia fundamentalists kill four locals in two attacks.
2014.02.15 Thailand Yala 2 0 A husband and wife die of gunshot wounds following a Muslim drive-by.
2014.02.15 Nigeria Izghe 106 0 Over one-hundred mostly Christian villagers are rounded up and summarily hacked to death by militants shouting praises to Allah.
2014.02.15 Iraq Mosul 3 0 Sunni radicals kidnap and behead three local policemen.
2014.02.15 Afghanistan Kunduz 2 6 Two civilians are shredded by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.
2014.02.14 Syria Yadouda 48 150 Dozens are reported dead following a car bomb attack on a rival mosque.
2014.02.13 Thailand Pattani 4 6 A Buddhist monk and a child of 9 are among five people brought down by a Muslim drive-by shooting.
2014.02.13 Somalia Mogadishu 7 15 An al-Shabaab car bomb takes the lives of fifteen people at an airport.
2014.02.13 Iraq Baghdad 7 21 Sunni extremists set off two bombs at a historice market which leave seven dead.
2014.02.13 Pakistan Karachi 13 57 A brutal Tehreek-e-Taliban suicide blast sends over a dozen bus passengers to Allah.
2014.02.12 Pakistan Peshawar 9 0 Two children, ages 8 and 10, are among a family of nine taken from their home and executed by activists fighting for Islamic law.
2014.02.12 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A female banker is killed and set on fire by Muslims because she was Buddhist.
2014.02.11 Nigeria Konduga 51 50 Islamists roll up on a local village and slaughter over fifty residents.
2014.02.11 Iraq Nineveh 16 0 Hardline fundamentalists shoot and slit the throats of sixteen Iraqi soldiers.
2014.02.10 Pakistan Peshawar 4 6 A Lashkar-e-Islam suicide blast takes the lives of four women.
2014.02.10 Pakistan Dera Ismail Khan 1 1 Two guards for an anti-polio team are gunned down by religious hardliners.
2014.02.10 Pakistan Hangu 3 0 Three teachers are shot to death by Islamic extresmists.
2014.02.09 Iraq Baiji 3 0 Three family members are kidnapped and beheaded by al-Qaeda.
2014.02.09 Iraq Gatoun 3 5 Mujahid bombers successfully kill a child and two others.
2014.02.09 Yemen Sanaa 2 3 Two bystanders are taken out by an al-Qaeda suicide bomb attack.
2014.02.09 Syria Maan 40 0 Islamists seize control of a small village and massacre forty people, mostly women and children who belong to the Alawite faith.
2014.02.09 Iraq Mosul 2 0 Two members of the Shabak religious minority are gunned down in a targeted attack.
2014.02.09 Pakistan Karachi 9 10 Fundamentalists fire into a group at a Sufi shrine, killing nine including a baby.
2014.02.08 Thailand Pattani 2 3 Islamic gunmen target a group of police officers, killing two.
2014.02.08 Iraq Tuz Khormatu 4 7 Four civilians are obliterated by Islamist bombers.
2014.02.08 Iraq Kanous 5 0 Five people are kidnapped and beheaded by Religion of Peace fanatics.
2014.02.07 Thailand Yala 1 2 A 45-year-old man is blown away in front of his home by Muslim 'separatists'.
2014.02.07 Pakistan Turbat 1 5 Sunni hardliners fire a rocket into a police checkpoint, killing one officer.
2014.02.07 Pakistan Upper Kurram 1 0 A Shiite school teacer is picked off by Sunni gunmen.
2014.02.07 Pakistan Khanewal 2 3 A Shahid suicide bomber wipes out two Pakistanis.
2014.02.07 Iraq Tuz Khormatu 5 22 Sunni bombers strike a residential neighborhood, killing five residents.
2014.02.06 Algeria Ghardia 1 0 A Berber dies after being assaulted by Muslims angered over a minority religious shrine.
2014.02.06 Iraq Mosul 2 0 A man and his son are murdered by Mujahid gunmen at a market.
2014.02.06 Iraq Sadiyah 1 3 A Fedayeen suicide bomber kills one other person.
2014.02.06 Syria Aleppo 46 20 A British suicide bomber kills scores of people during an attack on a prison.
2014.02.06 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Muslim terrorists shoot a rubber tapper to death.
2014.02.05 Iraq Baghdad 5 11 Five people at a busy commercial area are exterminated by Islamic bombers.
2014.02.05 Iraq Baghdad 5 12 A Shahid suicide bomber detonates at a restaurant, brutally ending the lives of five patrons.
2014.02.05 Egypt Sharqiya 1 1 Islamists shoot two policemen in the head.
2014.02.05 Iraq Mosul 1 7 Three suicide bombers manage to take out one Iraqi.
2014.02.05 Iraq Nuaimiya 5 7 A suicide bomber kills five people at a checkpoint.
2014.02.05 Iraq Fallujah 3 11 Three Iraqis are sent to Allah by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2014.02.05 Iraq Baghdad 12 22 Two car bombs at an office park leave a dozen dead.
2014.02.05 Iraq Baghdad 9 24 A triple-bombing at an outdoor market leaves nine dead Shiites.
2014.02.05 Yemen Aden 1 0 al-Qaeda gunmen kill a man outside a sports arena.
2014.02.05 Pakistan Norak 4 0 Four tribesmen are riddled with Taliban bullets while sitting outside their house.
2014.02.04 Thailand Narathiwat 3 2 Three boys, ages 6 to 9, are gunned down in front of their parents by Muslim terrorists.
2014.02.04 Yemen Sanaa 2 12 al-Qaeda members bomb a bus, killing two passengers.
2014.02.04 Pakistan Peshawar 7 42 Women and children at a Shiite mosque are among seven people aerated by ball bearings packed into a suicide bomb vest.
2014.02.04 Iraq Mosul 2 6 Two Iraqis are sent to Allah by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.
2014.02.04 Iraq Tarmiya 2 0 Two people are kidnapped and murdered by al-Qaeda.
2014.02.04 Nigeria Riyom 34 20 Thirty-four villagers are massacred by Muslim gunmen.
2014.02.04 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 A 60-year-old Shia leader is shot to death by Sunni extremists.
2014.02.04 Iraq Baghdad 18 40 Eighteen people are killed in a series of Mujahid suicide bombings and shooting.
2014.02.03 Iraq Hurriyah 4 11 Car bombers kill four people in a commercial district.
2014.02.03 Tunisia Raoued 1 0 Islamic militants open fire on a group of police officers, killing one.
2014.02.03 Pakistan Karachi 2 0 Sipah-e-Sahaba murder two people merely because they are Shia.
2014.02.03 Lebanon Choueifat 1 0 A Shahid suicide bomber takes out one other person.
2014.02.03 Iraq Abdu Dashir 6 14 Six shoppers at an outdoor market are ripped to pieces by Sunni car bombers.
2014.02.03 Iraq Mahmoudiya 9 28 Nine Iraqis are reduced to pulp by al-Qaeda car bombers.
2014.02.03 Iraq Baghdad 2 6 Two people are taken down by a Holy Warrior with a suicide vest.
2014.02.03 Pakistan Karachi 4 0 Four cops are gunned down by suspected Islamists.
2014.02.03 Nigeria Yobe 18 0 Eighteen traders at a market are machine-gunned by Boko Haram Islamists.
2014.02.02 Pakistan Peshawar 5 31 Suspected fundamentalists toss grenades into a cinema, killing five people.
2014.02.02 Iraq Diyala 5 3 A woman is among five people riddled with bullets by Muslim terrorists.
2014.02.02 Thailand Pattani 4 5 'Insurgents' murder four people with a bomb and shooting attack.
2014.02.02 Iraq Baiji 8 18 A Fedayeen suicide car bomber dismantles eight Iraqis.
2014.02.02 Kenya Mombasa 1 0 A police officer is stabbed in the head at a mosque by youth yelling 'Allah Akbar' .
2014.02.02 Syria al-Raei 16 20 An ISIL 'peace envoy' blows himself up during negotiations. Sixteen others are killed.
2014.02.02 Iraq Kirkuk 4 1 al-Qaeda militants take out four local soldiers.
2014.02.02 Somalia Beled Hawa 3 5 Pro-Sharia activists bomb a coffee shop at a peak time.
2014.02.01 Lebanon Hermel 3 23 An al-Nusra suicide bomber sends three Shiites to Allah.
2014.02.01 Philippines Saudi Ampatuan 0 12 Two journalists are among the casualties of a Bangsamoro Islamic bombing.
2014.02.01 Iraq Baghdad 8 22 Four Mujahid bombs produce eight dead Iraqis.
2014.02.01 Afghanistan Herat 2 0 Two campaign workers are shot to death by suspected Taliban.
2014.02.01 Pakistan Garhi Mali Khel 4 0 Four members of one family are taken out by Islamic militants.
2014.02.01 Afghanistan Farah 4 4 Four local soldiers are ambushed and killed by religious extremists.
2014.02.01 Syria Aleppo 26 18 Over two dozen people are killed by two al-Qaeda suicide bombers.
2014.02.01 Afghanistan Spin Boldak 4 1 A Taliban bomb ends the lives of four local policemen.
2014.02.01 Syria Homs 1 0 Radical Sunnis behead a Shiite in front of children.
2014.01.31 Nigeria Garin Yamdula 11 0 A pastor is among eleven people slain by pro-Sharia activists.
2014.01.31 Nigeria Kutura 7 3 Boko Haram militants kill seven car passengers with an IED.
2014.01.31 Yemen Shibam 15 4 Fifteen local soldiers are ambushed and killed by al-Qaeda.
2014.01.31 Nigeria Unguwar Kajit 7 0 Seven members of a Christian family are murdered in their own home by Muslim gunmen.
2014.01.31 Iraq Hit 5 3 A suicide bomber extinguishes five Iraqis.
2014.01.30 Iraq Baghdad 4 11 Sunni car bombers destroy four lives at an outdoor market.
2014.01.30 Thailand Pattani 2 0 Muslim radicals kill two people guarding a group of teachers with a homemade bomb.
2014.01.30 Pakistan Landikotal 2 0 Two children are disassembled by a Taliban bomb.
2014.01.30 Egypt Giza 1 0 A policeman is murdered by Ansar Beit Al Maqdis as he leaves his house.
2014.01.30 Iraq Baghdad 5 11 Eleven people are torn to shreds by a Religion of Peace bomb at a bus stop.
2014.01.30 Afghanistan Pachir Wagam 2 3 A suicide car bomber sends two local cops to Allah.
2014.01.30 Iraq Baghdad 18 50 Six al-Qaeda suicide bombers storm a government office building and murder eighteen people.
2014.01.29 Thailand Narathiwat 2 3 A shooting and separate bombing attack on a group of teachers leaves two civilians dead.
2014.01.29 Pakistan Nazimabad 3 5 A bearded Shahid suicide bomber snuffs out the lives of three people.
2014.01.29 Iraq Hawija 3 2 al-Qaeda gunmen take down three Iraqis.
2014.01.29 Iraq Baghdad 8 20 Eight people lose their lives to a pair of Mujahid car bombs.
2014.01.29 Iraq Baghdad 3 10 Three patrons at a market are sectionalized by a Jihad bomb blast.
2014.01.29 Pakistan Beaver Ridge WV Canaan 1 7 Tehreek-e-Taliban bombers kill policeman inspecting a bridge.
2014.01.29 Iraq Camp Sarah 3 0 Three Christians are shot to death by Muslim terrorists.
2014.01.29 Pakistan Mastung 1 0 A young child dies from injuries suffered in a blast targeting Shia minorities.
2014.01.29 Iraq New Baghdad 5 12 Shrapnel tears through a popular market, leaving five dead.
2014.01.28 Iraq Balad 2 3 Two citizens are aerated by Religion of Peace ball bearings.
2014.01.28 Iraq Muqdadiya 6 4 Six Iraqis are riddled with bullets by al-Qaeda gunmen.
2014.01.28 Syria Aleppo 4 0 An ISIL suicide bomber murders four Religion of Peace rivals.
2014.01.28 Philippines Datu Piang 0 2 An 8-year-old girl and a pregnant woman are hurt by a Bangsamoro Islamist bomb.
2014.01.28 Pakistan Karachi 2 0 Two religious minorities are shot dead in targeted attacks.
2014.01.28 Egypt Cairo 1 2 Islamic extremists gun down a guard at a church.
2014.01.28 Egypt Giza 1 0 Ansar Beit al-Maqdis assassinate a government official.
2014.01.27 Syria Rahjan 13 5 An al-Nusra suicide bomber murders thirteen people at a checkpoint.
2014.01.27 Iraq Samarrah 3 0 Three Iraqis are decapitated by al-Qaeda.
2014.01.27 Pakistan Mashokehl 3 0 Islamic militants take three family members from their home and execute them in a nearby field.
2014.01.27 Iran Tehran 1 0 A poet is executed for 'waging war on Allah'.
2014.01.27 Pakistan Khanpur 1 0 A Shia leader is picked off by Sunni gunmen outside his home.
2014.01.27 Thailand Narathiwat 3 0 A 7-year-old girl is among three civilians machine-gunned by suspected 'separatists'.
2014.01.26 Afghanistan Helmand 6 13 A half dozen civilians in a taxi are torn to shreds by Religion of Peace bombers.
2014.01.26 Iraq Mishahda 3 12 A car bomb outside a Sunni mosque leaves three dead.
2014.01.26 Pakistan Quetta 1 0 A Sikh is reportedly killed for refusing to pay the jizya.
2014.01.26 Pakistan Peshawar 1 0 Islamic gunmen murder a guard at a Hindu temple.
2014.01.26 Egypt Sinai 4 9 Radical Islamists kill four local soldiers riding a bus.
2014.01.26 Afghanistan Kabul 4 22 A woman is among four people sent to Allah by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.
2014.01.26 Nigeria Riyom 1 2 A Chinese contractor is killed by suspected Boko Haram gunmen.
2014.01.26 Yemen Hadramawt 1 0 A police officer is gunned down by al-Qaeda on motorbikes.
2014.01.26 Egypt Sheikh Zuwayed 5 0 Ansar Beit al-Madqis claim responsibility for downing a helicopter with five aboard.
2014.01.26 Afghanistan Nangarhar 2 8 Taliban bombers decimate a wedding party, leaving at least two dead.
2014.01.26 Iraq Kirkuk 5 14 Five Iraqis are reduced to pulp by Islamist car bombers.
2014.01.26 Nigeria Kawuri 85 40 Over eighty villagers a massacred in a brutal assault by Boko Haram Islamists. Many were cut down or burned alive in their own homes.
2014.01.26 Pakistan Swat 1 0 Mujahid snipers pick off a member of a peace committee.
2014.01.26 Iraq Husseiniya 2 0 A man and wife are machine-gunned in their own home by 'insurgents'
2014.01.26 Nigeria Waga Chakawa 53 25 Fifty-three people at a church service are slaughtered by pro-Sharia gunmen.
2014.01.26 Iraq Fallujah 4 0 A woman and her three children are exterminated in their own home by Jihadi bombers.
2014.01.26 Iraq Abu Ghraib 8 0 Eight Iraqis are cut down in two shooting and bombing attacks.
2014.01.25 Iraq Tuz Khormato 7 19 Seven people at a restaurant are taken out in mid-bite by Mujahideen bombers.
2014.01.25 Iraq Baghdad 2 6 Two patrons at a shopping district are taken apart by al-Qaeda bombers.
2014.01.25 Pakistan Karachi 6 6 Six guards at the residence of a secular-leaning political leader are machine-gunned by suspected Taliban.
2014.01.25 Iraq Jaizan 6 2 Radical Sunnis fire rockets into a Shia village, killing six residents.
2014.01.25 Iraq Baqubah 6 2 A woman and child are among six members of a family wiped out by 'insurgents'
2014.01.25 Iraq Baghdad 4 12 A Sunni bomb blast in a Shia commercial district leaves four dead.
2014.01.24 Egypt Cairo 5 73 Five people bleed out following an Ansar Beit al-Maqdis shrapnel bomb blast outside a police station.
2014.01.24 Thailand Yala 2 3 Islamic 'separatists' kill two locals with a roadside bomb.
2014.01.24 Egypt Cairo 1 8 One person is killed by an Ansar Beit al-Maqdis bombing near a metro station.
2014.01.24 Iraq Tikrit 3 0 A child is among three females taken out in their own home by Mujahid bombers.
2014.01.24 Afghanistan Balkh 1 0 An 18-year-old is kidnapped, executed and set on fire by Sunni hardliners.
2014.01.24 Thailand Pattani 2 2 An elderly Buddhist monk is among two people shot to death by Muslim 'separatists.'
2014.01.23 Pakistan Peshawar 6 8 Children are among the casualties when a bomb planted on an impounded car explodes at a garage.
2014.01.23 Afghanistan Qaisar 6 4 Six Afghan cops are machine-gunned by Taliban terrorists.
2014.01.23 Kyrgyzstan Issyk-Kul 1 0 A armed group shouting 'Allah Akbar' murder a border guard.
2014.01.23 Afghanistan Laghman 5 0 Five youth playing volleyball are gunned down in cold blood by Taliban fundamentalists.
2014.01.23 Iraq Mosul 3 0 Suspected al-Qaeda shoot three people to death inside their home.
2014.01.23 Iraq Jurf al-Sakhar 3 4 Jihadis bomb a bus, killing three passengers.
2014.01.23 Pakistan Peshawar 1 0 A Shia factory owner is cornered and picked off by Sunni extremists.
2014.01.23 Egypt Bani Suief 5 2 Five policemen are machine-gunned at a checkpoint by radical Muslims on motorbikes.
2014.01.22 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 A prayer leader is gunned down by Religion of Peace rivals.
2014.01.22 Pakistan Charsadda 6 6 A child is among six dismantled by a Taliban bombing attack on a team guarding polio workers.
2014.01.22 Pakistan Charsadda 1 0 A Sikh minority is shot to death by suspected Islamic extremists.
2014.01.22 Pakistan Tank 1 0 Sectarian Jihadis take out a rival cleric.
2014.01.22 Thailand Yala 1 0 Militant Muslims are thought responsible for the drive-by shooting of a teenager.
2014.01.22 Pakistan Balochistan 6 0 'Foreign militants' shoot six guards to death in an attempt to kidnap Western cyclists.
2014.01.22 Iraq Baghdad 2 4 Terrorists murder two children in an attack on their home.
2014.01.21 Yemen Sanaa 1 0 Sunnis assassinate a Shia law professor.
2014.01.21 India Madurai 1 0 A man is hacked to death by four members of al-Umma.
2014.01.21 Thailand Narathiwat 1 5 A 21-year-old man guarding a group of teachers is pulled into pieces by a Muslim blast.
2014.01.21 Pakistan Mastung 28 31 Over two dozen Shia pilgrims on a bus are massacred by a Lashkar-e-Jhangvi suicide bomber.
2014.01.21 Pakistan Landhi 1 0 A Sunni leader is murdered by sectarian rivals.
2014.01.21 Pakistan Karachi 3 2 Fundamentalists murder three members of a polio vaccination team.
2014.01.21 Lebanon Beirut 4 20 Four people are killed when an al-Nusra suicide bomber detonates in a Shia neighborhood.
2014.01.21 Lebanon Tripoli 7 58 Seven are killed when Sunnis and Shia start shooting at each other.
2014.01.21 Pakistan Karachi 1 2 A secular politician is assassinated by suspected Islamists.
2014.01.21 Somalia Mahaday 15 3 Fifteen people are reported dead following an al-Shabaab assault on a village.
2014.01.21 Iraq Wajihiya 1 0 A Sunni cleric is shot to death by sectarian rivals.
2014.01.20 Pakistan Peshawar 1 0 A Shia religious scholar is assassinated by Sunni rivals.
2014.01.20 Iraq Baghdad 7 18 Jihadis bomb a crowded market, sending seven civilians to Allah.
2014.01.20 Algeria Ghardaia 1 3 Muslims stab a Berber minority to death in his own home.
2014.01.20 Pakistan Rawalpindi 13 15 Thirteen people are ripped to shreds by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2014.01.20 Nigeria Wulgo 1 1 Islamists take out a teacher in his own home with an AK-47.
2014.01.20 Afghanistan Zhari 3 0 A 13-year-old girl is among three killed in a Fedayeen suicide assault.
2014.01.20 Thailand Pattani 2 0 Muslim militants spray a man and woman with bullets as they are heading to the market.
2014.01.20 Syria Bab al-Hawa 16 20 A Fedayeen suicide bomber detonates at a border crossing with Turkey, killing at least sixteen.
2014.01.20 Pakistan Karachi 3 0 Three innocents are kidnapped and brutally tortured to death after ignoring warnings not to worship at a Shia shrine.
2014.01.20 Nigeria Alau Ngawo 19 12 Pro-Sharia gunmen invade a village, firing indiscriminately and killing at least nineteen residents.
2014.01.20 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 A prominent Shia cleric bleeds to death following a Sunni drive-by shooting.
2014.01.20 Iraq Baghdad 4 15 'Insurgents' set off a bomb near a group of day laborers, killing four.
2014.01.20 Iraq Baghdad 3 8 Jihadis bomb a market, killing three patrons.
2014.01.20 Iraq Baghdad 14 26 A series of Mujahideen attacks in Sunni neighborhoods leave fourteen dead Iraqis.
2014.01.20 Nigeria Gwoza 3 4 Boko Haram attack a village and murder three residents.
2014.01.19 Iraq Tuz Khormato 7 20 Seven citizens outside a sewage treatment office are wasted by Religion of Peace bombers.
2014.01.19 Iraq Baiji 7 17 Three al-Qaeda attacks produce seven dead Iraqis.
2014.01.19 Pakistan Bannu 22 38 Twenty-two local soldiers are ambushed and killed by Sunni fundamentalists.
2014.01.19 Nigeria Agatu 7 9 Muslims fire into a Christian village, killing seven residents.
2014.01.19 Iraq Baqubah 5 0 Five Iraqis are machine-gunned point-blank at a checkpoint by al-Qaeda.

fly bird (26)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 7:00 pm
Beth's posts are the same, mostly selected from hate sites, like 'sharia unveiled' and 'jihadwatch', or other pro Israeli sources. It isn't hard to see why.
To see anyone obsessed with a need to continually look to demonize and delegitimize, specifically, Muslims as a group clearly shows strong prejudice.
One can to try and deflect or say this is about 'honour killings', when it is obvious to outsiders it is more than that.
If this were not so, there would be more balance and less bias, which there is not.

Beth S (330)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 8:22 pm
I'm relatively sure -- but I certainly could be mistaken -- that I haven't seen one Israel-bashing article that jessica's name wasn't on, and you could find her comments pointing out anything and everything she could muster to demonize Israel, which is usually a wink and a nod for Jews as well. So jessica takes every opportunity to make Israelis seem evil and then doesn't understand why others want to legitimately point out that, at the very least, we need to take into account the kind of people which encircle the very small state of Israel.

What is it that they have in common, and what informs their views? It's easy to guess that it's Islam.

But there's much more that this aspect. Jessica will try to change the subject whenever possible.

The fact is that I sign scores of petitions every day on animal rights, environmental issues, children's rights, women's rights, gay rights, and the like. I just don't post them on C2. My interests are many and far exceed what I do post.

And maybe I need to make this disclaimer at least once in every post is that there are Muslims I genuinely like and who I think who are genuinely good people. However, I don't know of any "good Muslims" that means Muslims who adhere to Islam the ideology, who are "good people." If one looks at the Qur'an and Hadiths and sees the hatred, and also understands the doctrine of abrogation -- whereby every single one of the earlier, peaceful, gentle verses were abrogated and replaced by vicious, hateful, murderous ones, then one can look around the world and see that no, Islam was not "hijacked" by some extremists, but that Islam itself is extreme.

Islam -- not Muslims -- necessarily is the threat. And one can examples of the kind of threat it is by observing the kind of things that many Muslims do and/or support financially and otherwise.

The 30 day list of Islamic terrorism above is but what example. There are literally scores and scores and scores of articles about honor killings, Muslim-driven prostitute rings using non-Muslim girls, non-Muslim sex slaves, Muslim on Muslim violence, and the lists goes on and on.

These articles give an idea of what the ideology is about and how it is sanctioned.

There is much more that is even far more sinister, and that is the fact that Islam's devout followers intend to and are taking over everywhere.

I will continue to sound the alarms about this, as others will. That is our duty.

fly bird (26)
Tuesday February 18, 2014, 8:50 pm
Condemning Israeli policies is legitimate and attempts to depict it as 'demonizing Israel' make no difference.

"I sign scores of petitions every day on animal rights, environmental issues, children's rights, women's rights, gay rights, and the like." Ditto.

Stan B (123)
Wednesday February 19, 2014, 2:43 am
Beth. For some reason this quote from the New Testament comes to mind.
" And some fell on stony ground. " Matthew: 13.5

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Wednesday February 19, 2014, 12:35 pm
To Gene Jacobson – thank you for your insightful reply.

So there are 3 Islamic countries which are ruled by Sharia and which you, therefore, have not and will not visit. Fair – this is your prerogative. Did you visit any of the other 43 Islamic countries which are ruled by various Western Civil Codes such as Anglo-Saxon, Anglo-American, French or Belgian, often mixed with Napoleonic Code, Sharia and as compromise some traditional rights which are nothing tribal rights? Which don’t know any beheadings nor honor killings? And btw – none of the Islamic countries has “Jihad” as a way of life or raison d’être as you seem to believe.

Did you visit those Islamic countries who have not applied the death penalties for decades (although it would be in their set of laws) … beheading or otherwise … as opposed to the American Judicial System which kills legally how many per year? But ah, this is different as this is a Christian country. Sorry, I sometimes have a short memory. Why is it OK that one country can execute the power of their laws while others are called all kind of names if they implement their laws?

An interesting side note: As the EU refuses since 2005 to supply America with the deadly drugs to kill its prisoners some of the US States are “considering solutions such as firing squads and gas chambers”. Nice, isn’t it?

You ask why a CAIR is needed? Good question. I don’t know – ask them. But why do you need an AIPAC (and an ADL and others) which has taken over and dictates the American foreign policy especially regarding the ME? Equally if not more valid question I think.

Your question about the ME, Pakistan and Afghanistan made me chuckle, although a bit bitter. You forgot Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, Bahrain, Qatar and Egypt. Correctly you should expand it to include now as the latest victim the Ukraine – but oops … this is a Christian country, sorry. Or shall we take it a few steps back and start with the US toppling the democratic government of Iran and installing the Shah as a puppet in the 50’s? It seems to me that you’re quite selective in following and interpreting the news (?).

We all know (or should know) thanks the many ego-flattering interviews, articles and (leaked) MoU and telephone conversations … remember Victoria Uland who a few days ago stated “F*** the EU”? … who we all have to thank for the turmoil this region and its periphery is since some decades, don’t we? And yes, not to forget the Arab leaders who were and are willing puppets in this grand game. Probably you haven’t heard the farewell speech of the Military Intel Chief of Israel, Amos Yadlin in Nov 2010 either, when he explained how many Billions of US$ they spent in order to make it impossible for anyone to rule Egypt after Mubarak is gone? Or his address to the Knesset in December 2010?

Or his recent interview on Chanel Seven (from the MEM Middle East Monitor):

“The former director of Israeli military intelligence, General Amos Yadlin, has revealed that its operatives have penetrated a number of Arab countries, notably Egypt. Yadlin also named Tunisia, Morocco, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen, Lebanon, Iran, Libya, Palestine and Syria as places where Israeli agents are active.

Speaking to Israel's Channel Seven, he claimed that the Military Intelligence Division has established networks for collecting information in Tunisia, Libya and Morocco which are able to have a positive or negative influence on the political, economic and social scenes in the countries.

The retired General did not give details of the exact nature of such networks but he did say that Israeli agents are most active in Egypt where they have been established since 1979. Yadlin is the current head of the Institute of National Security Studies at the University of Tel Aviv and still has strong links with the security and political authorities in the Zionist state. He confirmed that Israeli agents are working deep within Egyptian governmental institutions.

He said that the Military Intelligence Division's work against the "enemy" has succeeded in escalating unrest and sectarian and social tensions wherever they are operating, especially in Egypt.”

Or Condie Rice when she explained in minute details in Tel Aviv in 2007 the “New Middle East Order”?

You know what always amazes me? When some Muslims commit whatever … people like you and others always come with such statements: “Sure, there are many Muslims who do not condone such things but they are strangely silent.” Maybe you should once tune into the local media in the Arabic World and hear what the many Middle Easterners (Muslims and Christians alike) have to say? Why is never ever the same demanded of the Christians and the Jews???

Why are the many Christians who do not condone such things … absolutely silent when the US kills extra-judicially a handful of innocent people at a wedding party simply because they suspected that there might be a possible terrorist? Oh yes, Mme Merkel is sometimes allowed to be “concerned” … Or when the US spreads DU ammo in Iraq and the Balkans like it were candy?

Why are the many Jews who do not condone such things … absolutely silent when the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) drops a 1-ton bomb on densely populated Gaza to kill extra-judicially a suspected terrorist and kill in the process 11 innocent children and some adults? Or when the IDF dropped cluster bombs and ammo with enriched uranium in South Lebanon in 2006?

It seems to me that you chose to be very selective in your perception. Would you like to re-consider or re-phrase your question: “Have you looked at what its adherents are doing to each other …”?

On a personal note I’d like to tell you that the person you’re here has no resemblance to the person I got to know as a thoughtful and compassionate human being in other threads – always ready and able to also see the broader picture of things. I even sent you on the occasion Green stars which I do not regret at all – just to be clear on this.

Yes, by all means there are many brainwashed Muslims – I call them nut wings – who in my opinion have no idea what Islam is and/or who willfully interpret their scriptures for their own personal gains and goals. I know an equal amount of Christians and Jews who fall in the exact same category and the net is full of their hate speeches and writings. I would NEVER ever based on such bad – and often personal experiences – condemn and vilify any of the 3 monotheistic religions. But … that’s me.

I wish for you that you stay safe and well!

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Wednesday February 19, 2014, 1:41 pm
To Beth S. – “Then I came to the end, and I realized that these aren’t quite serious questions, but just an emotional lead-up to your quite sarcastic and judgmental “Happy Bashing.””

It seems I have missed your 'Thank you' note. After all … under the above pretext you found an easy way out of not having to answer my genuine questions. Sorry to disappoint you but I’m never emotional in such discussions. It’s not worth it and it’s bad for the blood pressure you know?

Fact is: You’re not interested in the real problems “honor killings” pose. I put quotation marks as IMO these killings have nothing to do with honor.

Fact is: You’re not interested in these “honor killings” if they occur in the Christian society.

Fact is: You’re not interested in these “honor killings” if they occur in the Hindu society.

Fact is: You’re not interested in these “honor killings” if they occur in the largely atheist societies of the Balkan state.

Fact is: You’re not interested in the many “accidents” (which are camouflaged “honor killings”) in Orthodox communities.

Fact is: You give a hoot about FGM occurring in Christian, Jewish and pagan societies because it doesn't help you bash Islam.

Fact is: You're not bothered by anything if it doesn't help you further your "worthy cause" to safe the gullible world from the evil Satan - Islam and its followers.

Fact is, therefore: Your only aim and motive is to dissect, dehumanize and vilify one of the three monotheistic religions and its 1,5 Billion followers.

Once you can truly hold – rather are allowed to hold – a conversation without evading answers to genuine questions by fervently going into a copy-paste mode and clutter the thread with umpteen times published and repeated “arguments and justifications” as to why “we” have to fight evil Islam; with quotes, ahadith, interpretations and AE-files like a little robot … then maybe it might be worth to continue.

If so it would be interesting to know who “we” is that you’re constantly referring to; is it an organization, are you the spokesperson thereof … or is this the royal "We" you're using?

But … I’m glad you like my first name. It’s an old Latin name – some say it’s an old Hebrew name – and it means “God/Adonai/Allah is [my] light”. Unfortunately (?) for me institutionalized religions are not my cup of tea although I’m very much into comparative religion; maybe that’s why?

As for my family name: instead of disseminating what you’re fed about Islam/Qur’an etc. why don’t you study a bit the socio-economic history of North Italy and you’d stop wondering? What you see is what you get as far as it concerns me.

bob m (32)
Thursday February 20, 2014, 10:49 am

islam.. a satanic cult.

Beth S (330)
Thursday February 20, 2014, 11:17 am
Honor killings are not just a majority Islamic phenomenon in faraway places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. They have been coming west with increasing Muslim immigration,

"Honor killing" under growing scrutiny in the U.S.

(CBS) Three years ago, Razan Fayez was working as a family law attorney at the Tahirih Justice Center, a Virginia-based non-profit organization that helps women and children around the world who are fleeing forced marriages, so-called "honor violence," and genital mutilation in places like Togo and Pakistan find safety in the United States.

But things changed one Wednesday morning when Fayez got a call from an attorney working with a women's shelter in Texas.

The shelter, said the caller, needed advice on how to help a 16-year-old girl who had run away from home because her parents were about to send her overseas to enter a forced marriage. Now, said the caller, the parents were threatening to sue the shelter if they kept the girl.

"I remember feeling an overwhelming sense of urgency," says Fayez. "If she goes off to be married against her will, she'll be raped."

Fayez advised that the shelter could go to court and file an order of protection for the girl against her parents. She scrambled to make connections - child protective services has apparently said they didn't want to get involved in a "cultural issue," remembers Fayez - but it was for naught. When she came to work the next Monday, the attorney for the shelter said the girl had gone back to her family.

Two weeks later, the center received another call, this one by a woman trying to figure out how to save her step-daughter from female genital mutilation.

"I had heard that these things happened in the U.S., but this really opened my eyes to it," says Fayez.

Although many Americans may think that phenomena such as forced marriages and so-called "honor killings" exist only overseas, social service agencies, educators, and a growing number of law enforcement personnel know differently. According to a survey the Tahirih Justice Center conducted of more than 500 social service, religious, legal, educational and medical agencies last year, 67 percent responded that they believed there were cases of forced marriage occurring among the populations they serve, but only 16 percent felt their agency was equipped to deal with the situation.

"We don't have the mechanisms in place here in the U.S. to take care of these girls," says Det. Chris Boughey of Arizona's Peoria Police Department. "What do we do with a teenager runaway? Ninety-nine percent of the time, we take her home. But some of these girls end up getting killed."

Boughey should know. In October 2009, he was the lead investigator in the murder of 20-year-old Noor Almaleki, who was run down in broad daylight by her father who was angry that she had become too westernized and did not want to accept a marriage her father had arranged for her in the family's native Iraq, according to Det. Boughey.

According to the AHA Foundation, a non-profit group dedicated to eradicating religious or culturally sanctioned violence against western women, honor violence "describes physical violence against a woman or girl by another family member for engaging in behavior deemed by the family to be shameful." An "honor killing" is an extension of this violence, taken to the extreme and often involving the participation of multiple family members.

"Honor killings" have been reported in countries around the world. Just last month, the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan released its annual report estimating that in 2011 at least 943 women and girls were murdered in familial "honor killings," including 93 minors. According to the report, most of the women were killed by husbands or brothers. "Illicit relations" were cited as a reason for 595 cases, and demanding to marry a partner of their choice was noted in 219 cases.

In Iraq, where Noor Almaleki's family emigrated from, a World Health Organization report found that in 2006-2007, 83 percent of women reported experiencing "controlling behavior" by their husbands and 21 percent reported being victims of physical violence. According to a 2011 report by Human Rights Watch, Iraqi law "limits the prison sentence to less than three years for an honor killing of a wife by her husband."

In 2000, the United Nations estimated that approximately 5,000 women worldwide were victims of "honor killings" each year, though experts believe that number is low.

"We have very poor data on honor violence," says Nisha Varia, a senior researcher at Human Rights Watch. "It's such a difficult phenomenon to accurately record because many don't get reported, or they happen in remote areas, or are classified as something else."

Maricopa County Prosecutor'sOffice

And if international data is bad, American data is practically non-existent. No national or state agency attempts to collect data on any kind of "honor" violence, including murders. But we know they are taking place in North America. In January, three members of one Canadian family - a father, mother and brother - were convicted of four counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of three of the family's daughters and the father's other wife. The four women's bodies were found submerged in a car in June 2009, and according to the New York Times, police wiretaps recorded the father, Mohammad Shafia, who had brought his family to Canada from Afghanistan in 2007, saying that his daughters had disgraced him by dating and wearing what he thought was inappropriate clothing.

Last month, Phoenix police arrested the mother, father and sister of 19-year-old Aiya Altameemi after they allegedly beat her, restrained her and burned her for reportedly talking to a boy and refusing to enter into an arranged marriage with a 38-year-old man, reports CBS affiliate KPHO. The family, originally from Iraq, pleaded not guilty to charges of suspicion of aggravated assault and unlawful imprisonment. Their next court date is April 18.

On March 5, Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser, president of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, wrote an editorial that appeared in the Arizona Republic and USA Today saying that Altameemi's beating and Almaleki's death were not isolated incidents in the U.S.: "For every Noor Al-Maleki and Aiya Al-Tameemi, there are hundreds of other cases of honor abuse, from the mild to the extreme, that are often brought on by things like dating, drinking, dressing "immodestly" or rejecting Islam," wrote Jasser.

But the very notion that violence in the name of "honor" happens in the United States is controversial. Many people worry that focusing on these problems will spark increased anti-Arab and anti-Muslim sentiment. Crimesider contacted a prosecutor in Michigan who worked on the case of 45-year-old Rahim Alfelawi, an Iraqi immigrant who reportedly confessed to murdering his 20-year-old daughter, Jessica Mokdad, in May 2011. The prosecutor, whose name Crimesider is withholding, was adamant that the case, which is listed on AHA's website as an "honor killing," was no such thing.

"This has little or nothing to do with Arabic culture," wrote the prosecutor in an email. "It has everything to do with male domination of women, something that transcends cultures."

He went on to write that the family does not want Jessica's death "used by the media to promote a continued Arab bias," whether or not the facts of the case showed that her father was unhappy with her living a freer, more American style life than he would have liked.

Evan Misshula, a graduate student at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, understands the prosecutor's discomfort at creating a category of crime that seems to target a certain culture or religion. When he and his supervisor were first approached by the AHA Foundation last year to collaborate on a symposium and research project about honor violence he was wary, concerned about doing research that might be perceived as biased, but quickly warmed to the idea.

"It is an issue that has got to be addressed," says Misshula.

But, as AHA's communication director Amanda Parker, put it, "Without numbers, it's hard to get funding and get law enforcement to pay attention and get people to take it seriously."

And so, last June, AHA and John Jay College held a symposium on the subject of honor violence, featuring speakers such as Det. Boughey and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the founder of AHA. Ali is the author of "Infidel," a memoir of her strict Muslim upbringing in Somalia, and "Nomad: From Islam to America." Perhaps because of her unique position, Ali is not squeamish about focusing her efforts to eradicate honor violence on radical Islamic communities.

"The women in these cultures don't own their bodies," she told attendees at the symposium. "Their sexuality is a commodity and it's of high value which is owned by their families." If a young woman refuses to comply with her father's choice of a husband for her (as Noor Almaleki did) "this strips the father of his honor...Fathers will kill their daughters over this."

AHA and John Jay have embarked on research that they hope will lead to greater understanding, awareness and ultimately prevention of honor violence in the U.S. They've taken cues from the United Kingdom, which is ahead of the U.S. when it comes to studying and addressing this issue. According to Nazir Afzal, the Director of the Crown Prosecution Service, there are approximately 12 honor killings in the U.K. each year, and most of the victims of honor violence are women between 15 and 24 years of age.

But thanks to women like Jasvinder Sanghera, a survivor of forced marriage and the founder of Karma Nirvana, an organization for victims of forced marriages and honor violence in the U.K., women in Great Britain now have somewhere to turn. Karma Nirvana operates a hotline to connect women to social services and in 2007 they helped get the Forced Marriage Protection Act passed by the country's Parliament.
Armed with the research John Jay is gathering, and with the help of Sanghera - who is interviewed in Saturday's 48 Hours episode - AHA is hoping to develop the same resources for women living in America.
"Now, when a girl goes to police or her school counselor and says, 'My dad wants to kill me because a boy sent me flowers,' to Western ears it sounds like she's exaggerating," explains AHA's Parker. "But we have to leave our cultural assumptions at the door and take her seriously."

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