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My Country Is Under Attack. Do You Care?


World  (tags: children, conflict, crime, death, ethics, europe, corruption, israel, middle-east, politics, terrorism, usa, violence, war )

Gillian
- 959 days ago - huffingtonpost.ca
I'm angry. You see, as most Americans were waking up this morning, and those in Europe and elsewhere around the world were going about their daily routines, here in Israel -- over one million people were running for cover from a hail of rockets being



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Comments

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Wednesday November 14, 2012, 3:32 pm

WHY is whether it was Palestine . . . or Israeli relevant?

In America, it is CLEAR that: Columbus did NOT discover America (there were already people there, so . . . common sense would imply that, unless you are aware of THEIR predecessors, THEY discovered it;

If Israel is a humane state, why not act humanely?

(And this coming from a person who thinks "ownership" of land by anyone believing in a divine diety is hypocritical):

If all land and people were created by whatever god you chose to believe in, HOW did any one of those people OWN it?

IMO, it's a question of selective reasoning of whatever scripture one chooses to follow.

(Which is also why I don't adhere to any doctrine that is nonsensical.)

 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Wednesday November 14, 2012, 3:35 pm

This is inane. And in the total scope of humanity, inconsequential. It's merely a power struggle.

And, in the meantime, in the name of power, thousands of innocents are being sacrificed.

There is NOTHING that justifies carnage.

 

. (0)
Wednesday November 14, 2012, 3:39 pm
Gillian- the wrong man was elected to do a damn thing about this.
 

Alexa R. (323)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 12:14 am
Just Carole could not have read this article else her comments would not have been so nonsensical/absurd, therefore I quote:

"I'm angry.

You see, as most Americans were waking up this morning, and those in Europe and elsewhere around the world were going about their daily routines, here in Israel -- over one million people were running for cover from a hail of rockets being rained down by Palestinian terrorists in Gaza. In the space of 24 hours, since Tuesday evening, 80 rockets have been fired on southern Israel. That's more than three rockets per hour. By the time I finish this article, odds are that count will have risen to 85 rockets.

Just to put things in context: one million Israelis is roughly 13 per cent of the population. Thirteen per cent of the U.S. population equates to about 40 million people.

A dozen Israelis have already been injured, with several of them seriously. The only reason more have not been hurt is because Israel has invested millions of dollars in bomb shelters and the Iron Dome defense system, while Hamas has invested millions of dollars in foreign aid in more rockets.

But here is why I'm angry.

Act for Israel
Dear @UN -This used to be someone's home. While you've been napping,1 million citizens in #Israel were under attack. http://t.co/pyB9aGF3

I'm angry that in 2012, over 600 rockets have already been fired from Gaza with no end in sight. I'm angry that the world only notices when Israel undertakes its (sovereign) right to defend its citizens. Can you imagine if even one rocket was fired on Washington, London, Paris or Moscow? No nation on earth can, or should, tolerate such attacks on its people.

I'm angry that while the United Nations never hesitates to call a 'special emergency session' on the 'Question of Palestine' or pass the umpteenth resolution blindly condemning Israel, that I am still waiting for a session on the 'Question of Israel' and Palestinian terror. In fact, 24 hours after the rocket attacks started, I am still waiting for even one syllable of condemnation from the UN Security Council, the UN General Assembly or Navi Pillay, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights.

I'm angry that Ban Ki-Moon, the UN Secretary-General, could not find a moment to condemn the Palestinian rockets, but did find time to laugh and dance with South Korean rapper Psy from the popular dance craze Gangnam Style.

I'm angry that while the EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton slammed Israel last week over the building of several hundred apartments (in an area that will arguably remain part of Israel anyway), that I am still waiting for her to slam the Palestinians for firing 80 rockets in one day.

I'm angry that there are those who continue to call for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against the Jewish State, but are silent in the face of Palestinian terror.

I'm angry that ships and flotillas continue to set sail for Gaza to show 'solidarity' with the Palestinians, but where is their solidarity with the people of southern Israel?

I'm angry that while human rights organizations like Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, Oxfam and others do not waste a single opportunity to condemn Israel for human rights violations against the Palestinians, the human rights of Israelis are seemingly not important enough for them. Is Jewish blood really that cheap?
I'm angry that mainstream newspapers like the New York Times, lead their stories about the rocket attacks with such headlines as "Four Palestinian Militants Killed in Israeli Airstrikes," and not "Palestinian Terrorists Rain Down Over 80 Rockets against one million Israelis."

I'm angry that so many people are blind to the fact that Iran, which has called for Israel to be wiped off the map and now seeks to obtain nuclear weapons, is the primary funder and supplier of arms to Hamas. I'm angry at the fact that all civilians in southern Israel today were instructed not to send their kids to school and stay in bomb shelters. What sort of inhumane way is that for children to live?

I'm angry when people continue to say that 'settlements' are the main impediment to peace, and not Hamas, a terrorist group which does not recognize Israel's right to exist and seeks its destruction. I'm angry when I see pictures like this, of a home in southern Israel hit by a rocket from Gaza today, yet have the audacity to say "ah, but they're just like toys; what damage can they do?"

I'm angry that there is someone out there who does not know me and has never met me, yet still wants to kill me -- for no other reason than being Israeli.

I'm angry when I hear residents in southern Israel say "we just lie on top of our children and try to protect them with our bodies" or that "we're living on borrowed time" -- yet the world seems oblivious to their desperate cries for help.

No, I am not angry. I am outraged."
 

Cam V. (417)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 12:25 am
The United Nations has been corrupted for a number of years now and really should be disbanded. It is costing American an arm and a leg to keep going and has been taken over by radical Muslim sects for the most part.

I am very sad to hear what the people in Israel have to go through. Funny how it is Israel that gets attacked first and retalliates (as any other country would) yet Israel is the country condemned by more and more people as the agressor.

Just Carol did you ever stop and think that if Palestine quit lobbing misslies against Israel that maybe, just maybe Israel would not have to return fire? It is Iran and the radical Muslim sects who are arming Palestine and using the people there as tools in a very dangerous game. They are expendable. Men, women and children nothing more than bait used to make Israel defend itself.

I feel sorry for the uneducated Palestinian people who are being used in this manner. I stand with Israel and am very proud that my country does as well.
 

Giana Peranio-Paz (413)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 12:31 am
Over a hundred missiles already this morning and three dead, one baby and a four year old seriously injured! We were patient and didn't retaliate but there are red lines which when crossed, result in counter attacks by us. The world cannot condemn us for everything all the time! Look what and who we are up against!
 

Cam V. (417)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 12:34 am
Giana, one of the members in a group I belong to, Eli, is in Israel as well. You are in the heart of this old Canadian and his family and I hope you all stay safe.

 

Cal Mendelsohn (1026)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 12:43 am
I find myself agreeing most with Cam V on this. The old double standard which is for some is a thin guise for their own anti-Semitism, runs rife through the mainstream and some non-mainstream sources. Somehow when it comes to human rights, condemning killing is only convenient for some and not when it applies to all people.

This doesn't mean that this applies to JustCarol--- it doesn't. I can disagree with her but respect her opinion and right to express it.

I have always maintain that you can't apply human rights selectively and killing is just killing, no matter what ethnic group or religion we're speaking about. This article gets it right when they complain about unequal and unfair treatment of this despicable subject. I wish we all could just get along and that governments and high priests could let common folk everywhere get on with their lives and hopefully improving their ives,
 

Shane Ferrara (65)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 2:12 am
This is the sad, and timeless tradition Humankind has of fighting over land and power. I think maybe a lot of you guys misread what JustCarole was saying? (Or maybe I did? Correct me if I'm wrong...) But it seemed to me that she meant that in the midst of all this fighting, between the two opposing sides, it's the unarmed civilians that get hurt, as always.
 

Hilary S. (66)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 3:21 am
what strikes me is that the daily barrage of rockets fired haphazardly from gaza towards a million israeli civilians raises not a blip in the media, while israel's targeted assassination of a single known hamas kidnapper and terrorist leader is all over the news.
do we learn from this that the media holds hamas a terrorists in higher esteem than a million israeli civilians? and would this point to an anti-semitically biassed media?
the answers would be yes & yes
 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 3:23 am

Thank you, Shane. You DID understand what I was saying.

 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 3:35 am

"War doesn't determine who is right, war determines who is left." - Bertrand Russell



 

Arthur S. (88)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 4:04 am
Thank you GIllian for this. Alexandra for forwarding this news to me, and putting it all out there for all to see what is going on. Giana, you are in my thoughts and there are so many people I agree with on this article as far as comments. Allan, yes wrong man elected for the job. Cam and Cal said it all.

 

Adena Z. (50)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 4:57 am
noted. Thanks for sharing.
 

Alexa R. (323)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 5:07 am
Just Carole, where then is your empathy for the Israeli children and civilians?

What Shane said was a balanced comment, showing empathy for both sides. Can you point out to me where in your comment did you show empathy also to Israeli children and civilians? I re-read your comment and could not see any empathy for Israeli blood spilled.

So please point out where have I supposedly missed twice your empathy for Israeli children and civilians.

This is exactly what this article is about, the shocking lack of empathy by so many thinly veiled anti-Semites for the fate of Israeli children and civilians.

A compassionate person feels empathy for both sides of innocents in war. Us Israelis, more than any want this war to stop or never to even have started. It is not Israel who started the war, Israel is retaliating, protecting her civilians and children.

Would you expect anything less from your country the USA if you were under fire?

Well, I suppose we'll soon see what you say when US may well break out in civil war. Whether you'll still be saying that under attack just roll-over and let the terrorists kill whoever they want.









 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 5:20 am

And WHERE (in my short few comments) did you see me show a lack of empathy????

Each of my posts espoused the pointlessness of murder (under the guise of righteousness).

It's very sad that even posts championing alternative (rather than reactive like behavior) methods for peaceful resolution are under attack.

(And, if the U.S. should "break out" in civil war, I will, likewise, mourn the senseless loss of lives.)

 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 5:39 am

It's paradoxical to claim the higher moral ground and demonize ANY side for barbaric actions . . . and then employ them in response.

 

Ruth S. (302)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 5:51 am
Humans only think of destruction!

Why can't we all live in peace with each other!?
 

Alexa R. (323)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 5:56 am
Just Carole (593)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 5:20 am

And WHERE (in my short few comments) did you see me show a lack of empathy????

Here is where you displayed your lack of empathy for the Israeli children and civilians killed and living under constant rain of rockets in your first comments (at first I thought it must be your lack of actually having read the article rather than lack of empathy, but you did not admit to not having read this article - so if it was not that you did not read the article, it shows a total lack of empathy for Israeli innocents):
"Just Carole (593)
Wednesday November 14, 2012, 3:32 pm

If Israel is a humane state, why not act humanely?"

Is your comment/response on (I quote from the article): "here in Israel -- over one million people were running for cover from a hail of rockets being rained down by Palestinian terrorists in Gaza. In the space of 24 hours, since Tuesday evening, 80 rockets have been fired on southern Israel. That's more than three rockets per hour.

I'm angry that in 2012, over 600 rockets have already been fired from Gaza with no end in sight. I'm angry that the world only notices when Israel undertakes its (sovereign) right to defend its citizens. Can you imagine if even one rocket was fired on Washington, London, Paris or Moscow? No nation on earth can, or should, tolerate such attacks on its people.

I'm angry that there is someone out there who does not know me and has never met me, yet still wants to kill me -- for no other reason than being Israeli.

I'm angry when I hear residents in southern Israel say "we just lie on top of our children and try to protect them with our bodies" or that "we're living on borrowed time" -- yet the world seems oblivious to their desperate cries for help.

No, I am not angry. I am outraged."

So Just Carole, you're trying to convince me that responding to these desperate cries with

Just Carole: "If Israel is a humane state, why not act humanely?"

shows heaps of empathy? Really?!? How?


 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:05 am

Perhaps, there is a reading comprehension problem. I repeat:

It's paradoxical to claim the higher moral ground and demonize ANY side for barbaric actions . . . and then employ them in response.

“An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind”

(I'm perplexed at your anger against sense.)

 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:13 am

Pretty much, any civilized country has harsh punishments for retaliatory murder.

Now, if that's a crime of the most heinous degree for civilians, then why is is acceptable for the highest government officials to do so?

Question these things. Quit justifying the unforgivable with excuses. War and loss of life (of anyone, including the soldiers who suffer both in conscience and nightmarish experience . . . should they survive) should be the LAST choice.

We are too quick to bear arms, when, in the end, the resolution will be to lay them down.

 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:36 am

For most of my life, America has been involved in war after war after war.

Before our entrance into the successive conflicts, the public was blitzed with fear-mongering propaganda, preparing them to sacrifice their young adults to "protect" their country. (Glorification of war.)

I'm old enough to remember, and having many sleepless nights as a result, as a young girl, the huge threat of Russia, after being inundated by billboards, bus ads and news repeating Khrushchev (while banging a shoe on the table) saying: "We will bury your grandchildren."

Today, they're -- again -- an ally.

Same with Vietnam (a country most people had never heard of), and most of our other "enemies."

When do we quit being so gullible?

 

Gillian M. (218)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:37 am
Ales, carole has always been one of MM's chorus, Israel can do no right especially when they protect their own civilians and Muslims killing Isralis has always been acceptable.

Where is the anger when Muslim coontrolled countries abuse Muslims and non-Muslims? Where was carole's compassion when Christians world wide are being murdered and abused by Muslims? The attack on N Mali or the genocide in Sudan, which they are trying to continue? You cannot reason with a prejudiced person.

My anger is along with the author of this article and with people, like Carole, who do not acknowledge the abuse of Israelis by people such as herself as well as the people in Gaza by the terrorist groups. The war crimes perpetrated against the Gazan children. The brainwashing such as one of my other articles where a Bugs Bunny look alike teaches hatred. And against those who follow the Muslim proaganda and regurgitate it as the truth without questioning it.

 

Gillian M. (218)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:41 am
Here we go carole http://www.care2.com/news/member/100661215/3485438
 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:42 am

Thanks for making my point, Gillian.

 

Gillian M. (218)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:42 am
or this one http://www.care2.com/news/member/100541798/3485054
 

Gillian M. (218)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:44 am
carole, your point is that you hate Israel and they can do nothing right. I have just condemned those that abuse & kill, you haven't, proving my point very clearly.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:45 am
My heart breaks for both Israel and Palestine, and I really don't like Bebe in the last few years, but I will continue to stand with and for Israel. My prayer is for PEACE for all. This article is very good. Thank you.
 

Gillian M. (218)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:46 am
As I have said, you have never condemned Muslims in any country for any appalling behaviour regardless of who it is. Where is you condemnation of Muslim controlled countries who have committed human rights abuses?

"And what better day to bait Jews and ignore the real problems of the Muslim world than this Thursday? As luck would have it, it's the 24th anniversary of Yasser Arafat's Palestinian National Council's statement of 15 November 1988 that proclaimed the independence of the Arab State of Palestine.

The 23rd Arab and the 58th Islamic state to join the community of nations.

Imagine that: 58 states and not a single fully fledged liberal, pluralistic democracy amongst them. Not a single one.

Now that's an issue worth protesting about."
 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:48 am

Again, an attack against something that -- as my comments in this thread can prove -- was neither said, nor intimated, by me.

 

Arielle S. (316)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 7:01 am
Until we have lived in Israel or Palestine, we really have no clue, do we? There is nothing good about war - both sides are wrong here and that means innocent people will pay. Allan, it is not the President's job to police the world or to take sides for that matter - he has his own country to run. This war has been going on a long time and sadly will probably continue to go on for a long time. We surely do not need to get more involved -
 

Alexa R. (323)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 7:11 am
Just Carole (593)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:05 am

Perhaps, there is a reading comprehension problem. I repeat:

It's paradoxical to claim the higher moral ground and demonize ANY side for barbaric actions . . . and then employ them in response.

“An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind”

(I'm perplexed at your anger against sense.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Exactly! It is as if you take the words out of my mouth .. Why indeed have you singled out Israel in your first comments for demonization?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just Carole (593)
Wednesday November 14, 2012, 3:32 pm

If Israel is a humane state, why not act humanely?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm so perplexed at your persistent angry denial against sense ...

Please explain wh you singled out Israel for demonization in your first comments ... let's work towards removing the "comprehension" problems between you and me ..

 

Alexa R. (323)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 7:12 am
Oops .. the 'wh' should read --why
 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 7:17 am

I'm not going to prolong or contribute to this circular (and juvenile) badgering. I spoke honestly, and as much as I felt was needed to make my point, in my previous comments.

Re-read them, if need be.

Think what you wish. I, honestly, don't care.

 

Devon Leonard (54)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 10:51 am
I believe in Peace talks... I pray for more Peacemakers to emerge... No one, anywhere, want's explosives going off in their neighborhoods. That is too hard to bear...... A way needs to be found to create the fertile ground for the bombings to cease.. For Israel to live in peace and safety, and for the Palestinians to have their own state...
I do feel we have to remain vigilant and guard our respective National Policies against the tide of extremism that appears to have momentum in many places around the world.......
I feel there is always a solution...we have to take heart and work together to find it... War is never a solution. It steals the Dreams of a generation............ We Can do better.......
My prayers are with you...for you to be well and happy..and to live in Peace.
 

Alexa R. (323)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 11:26 am
Thank you Devon, I agree with you completely. If care2 allowed me to give you another star(s)! We need peacemakers..from all sides, even from USA supporters of Hamas (in Gaza).

 

Gillian M. (218)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 12:25 pm
Carole, you have just proved everything that I said about you, you have failed to turn up on the sites mentioned. In other words you will only condemn Israel and not the terrible deeds performed by Muslims. If behaviour, such as using the fake Bugs Bunny to brainwash children into hate, was condemned or, even better stopped, then the war Islam is waging could be stopped. But then Israel may survive and you wouldn't want that, would you?
 

divergent revolution (326)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 12:48 pm
I have been to the middle east twice.
Israeli children were being blown up in buses
While I am empathetic to the Palestinian movement.Truly They started the violence thay kills civilians.How do you fight terrorism in a peaceful manner?
If we knew the answer to that peace might prevail.
Carole I totally understood your post to frame the defenseless who get caught up in unsuccessful fighting that never ends.It is high time for cooler heads to prevail.Shalom ysrael.Ani mespechet at.
 

divergent revolution (326)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 12:53 pm
Alexandra please take care of your family and friends.
Been there with the paratroopers for safety.
What a risky existence.I hope you pull through unhurt.
Ahava.ahava.ahava.♡
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 1:17 pm
Tasunka, I can't say anymore that I em symphathetic to the movement whose goal is to greate 23-rd Arab state at the expense of a single Jewish state.

while it looks like every Arab clan deserves to get its own state, Kurds, Druze and Jews have to fight for the right to be independent. Those who want to create that 23rd Arab state in Gaza must realize that this state will neither provide for its citizen, nor will contribute anything to the world peace or prosperity. Creating 23rd Arab state in the current conditions means starting another bid Middle East war.

I am an opponent of wars.
 

Cam V. (417)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 1:58 pm
I did not mean to even suggest that Just Carole would take sides in this issue. She is anti war NO MATTER WHERE IT IS HAPPENING. Anti violence ..... I reread what I posted and apologize to you Carole most sincerely as the last thing you need is an education from this like of this old man.

In all my time at Care 2 she has been a staunch anti war advocate and stands strong on what she believes. I admire you very much for that.

Israel has to defend itself. Those rockets being shot from Palestine are now reaching their cities. That cannot stand. If EVERYONE backed off and that includes Iran and now apprently Egypt who is arming Hamaas with those missile I do think PEACE could be found if it only concerned the two countries invovled.

But again until the people of Palestine have had enough and kick the terrorist OUT of their country nothing is going to come of this but war. Israel will defend itself. They have to. Palestine has to stop allowing itself to be manipulated and used by the radicals or the outcome for them will not be a good one.

ANY flare up in the middle East with not be good for any of us here in North America. America WILL stand with Israel. They will have to which draws YOU into another war whether you like it or not. Obama's foreign affairs policies have been a failure. A HUGE failure and this is the result.
 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 5:46 pm

Cam and Cal, your kindness and respect are appreciated.

 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 6:13 pm
 
From Americans for Peace Now:
 
At this time, more than a million Israelis are in bomb shelters. For the first time in more than twenty years, rockets have landed near Tel Aviv. Three Israeli civilians have been killed by rockets, more than 13 Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israel’s bombing, and scores of civilians on both sides have been injured.
 
My heart aches for civilians on both sides who are suffering as the fighting goes on.
 
Our friends at Israel’s Peace Now movement today issued a statement of condolences to the families of the casualties, wishes of recovery for the injured and support for their fellow Israelis who have been living in a constant state of anxiety and a state of helplessness under the barrage of rockets from Gaza.
 
“We hope that the military operation that started yesterday will be concluded swiftly and will not snowball into a lengthy and dangerous military adventure,” Peace Now’s statement said. “Even if the operation will achieve its goals, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict cannot be solved by another military campaign. We have witnessed this scenario too many times in the past decade. Without a comprehensive political resolution, the next round is just a matter of time.”
 
APN yesterday issued a statement on the situation. Today, we had Israeli security expert Yossi Alpher on the phone for a briefing call. Click here to listen to a recording of the call.
 
We will continue to follow the situation in Israel and update our web site and Facebook page with news and analysis of the ongoing fighting between Israel and Hamas.
 
Together with our colleagues at Israel’s Peace Now movement, we will keep working so that all Israelis and Palestinians can enjoy real peace, security and normalcy resulting from an Israeli-Palestinian peace accord.
 
Please feel free to email me with your thoughts.
 
B'Shalom,
 
Debra DeLee President and CEO, Americans for Peace Now
 
 
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 8:24 pm
Hi everyone,

One of the problems with all of the demands for peace on moral grounds is that they are always completely one-sided. The trouble, in this case, is that Palestinian militias have absolutely no problem with killing civilians, so moral calls for peace mean nothing to them, while Israel both is directly sensitive to Western moral codes and seeks approval from other nations that are. Such a call for peace is therefore a demand for surrender by the side which would be humane in victory to the one which would not. The result of their demands, if successful, would be massacres even bloodier than war.

The case in question is a little more complicated because Israel has overwhelming force and the calls for peace tend to only really rise to the point of political pressure when Israel is on the offensive. This means that they may not quite amount to calls for surrender, but they do amount to demands that Israel not gain lasting strategic victories which would, if not quite end the conflict, certainly vastly reduce its future intensity. These moral demands thus, at best, prolong the war. At worst, they prolong the war and then lead to massacres following a victory by the side which they do not affect.

Moral opponents of violence like Carole may be good people with fine interests for all at heart, but they regularly act against those interests. They are certainly not murderers themselves and not quite morally responsible for violence, but they have enabled the prolongation of war and bloodshed. Almost worse, they have been cynically used and their movements have been infiltrated by people with far worse intentions.
 

Beth S. (334)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 8:39 pm
Unfortunately, Islam will not allow others to live in peace, especially when it's in their neck of the woods and in their reach. Hamas is part of the Muslim Brotherhood, the same Muslims Brotherhood whose motto is

Allah is our objective;
The Prophet is our leader;
The Quran is our law;
Jihad is our way;
Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope

Hamas doesn't want peace with Israel, it wants to utterly destroy Israel and all Jews -- EVERYWHERE. They make no bones about this to their Arab-speaking audiences. There is no compromise with those that want to absolutely destroy you. This is folly. Hamas simply waits for politically and/or militarily opportunistic moments like now to do so.

To suggest that these "poor" people have no choice, because of Israel, is a lie and absurdity perpetuated throughout the world. The only thing stopping Gazans from living in peace is the Gazans and the money they get to perpetuate the conflict. The fact that they are allied with, and are an actual familial extension of a dysfunctional Egypt that depends on tourism and foreign aid for survival is yet another reason that Hamas and Gaza simply cannot make the paradigm shift to become a self-sufficient, non-pathological polity.

They live for trouble. "Dying for allah,our highest hope. Jihad is our way." This ideology is wacko. When you start with a sick, dysfunctional foundation, like Islam's inability to co-exist with virtually EVERY other religion, everything that comes from that can only be more of sick and dysfunctional.

Dar al Kharb, the House of War and Jihad until Islam crushes it, and everything in its path. A Global Caliphate is the stated goal, use of all manner of deceit is halal to achieve the end game. Blaming Israel as though Israel isn't interested in peace and pretending that Hamas does is a lie that is also an obscenity.

And Gazans who fire rockets deliberately into civilian neighborhoods and hide behind their own children while they fire at Israelis will be the death of their own children. So outrageously and egregiously irresponsible is this, that any Western government would take these peoples' children away for child abuse and neglect if it were an even playing field. But Arab oil guarantees that there can be no even playing field, because truth and justice are not for buying. Gaza will continue to reap what it sows, as it should.
 

Shelly Peterson (213)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 10:01 pm
My Dear Alexandra & Gianna and the rest of my friends living in Isreal...HAMAS IS TO BLAME!!!!...FOR ALL THIS DEATH...since yesterday morning , on the radio, every hour, it is talked about and updated..this afternoon, the last count was over 200 missles launched by Hamas...especially at Tel Aviv...and the USA is asking, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan and all Arab Nations to talk to Hamas and get them to STOP THIS RIGHT NOW!!, not only for the Palestinian's innocent civillians , BUT OF COURSE FOR iSREAL!!!...hERE IN THE pACIFIC nw. usa IT IS AND HAS BEEN THE #1 TOPIC OF NEWS AND UPDATES!!!!!!!!!!!!WE CARE ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON...AND WE KNOW IT IS HAMAS, BEHIND ALL THE GARBAGE AND DEATH!!..THE USE PEOPLE FOR THEIR OWN POLITICAL GAIN AND THEY DO NOT CARE WHO THEY ARE PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......All the people are in our prayers and thoughts...not the political terrorists called HAMAS!
 

Alexa R. (323)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 10:47 pm
Thank you Just Carole for finally showing some empathy for Israel civilians also, through the piece from Americans for Peace. I give you credit (or if you prefer respect) for that - it has certainly cleared up my comprehension issues i had with your first few banal/nonsensical/absurd comments on this thread.

Unlike Cal and Cam, i don't know much about you and had to clear up for myself what you meant by those absurd first few comments (however many times i reread those comments of yours, without you posting that piece from Americans for Peace, i would not have understood where you came from -something has to be very clear to me before I comprehend it -)..

 

Alexa R. (323)
Thursday November 15, 2012, 10:56 pm
Thanks to all on this thread who have heard our Israeli cries for even-handed empathy towards the innocents during this daily rocket rain on civilians.

And heart-felt thanks to all my friends who expressed your empathy/concern for us Israelis also. May our collective dreams for peace become a reality, and terrorism a distant memory.


 

Past Member (0)
Friday November 16, 2012, 4:52 am
"There will be no peace in the Middle East until they love their own children more than they hate us" Golda Meir
Am Yisrael Chai!
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Friday November 16, 2012, 8:37 am
Just Carole, why does the letter from Americans for Peace Now not mention Hamas?

Everyone knows that these Islamist fanatical militants want to kill Jewish Israelis and subdue Arabs to follow Sharia, and not the path of democracy. Do these AFP guys think that it is possible to deal with savages like Hamas in a peaceful manner?
 

. (0)
Friday November 16, 2012, 10:16 am
Thanks for the post Gillian and Alex for sharing. I don't blame you for being angry. It is just unfortunate that after centuries of dischord and war, there seems to be no compromise, no intelligent solutions. Children are dying on both sides and they are the innocent victims in all of this. Stay safe Alex.
 

Past Member (0)
Friday November 16, 2012, 11:43 am
עושה שלום במרומיו הוא יעשה שלום עלינו ועל כל עם ישראל ואמרו, אמרו אמן

He will make peace and will bring peace to all Israel. Amen.
 

Gloria picchetti (301)
Friday November 16, 2012, 12:22 pm
I have less sympathy than I used to have. Israel is antagonistic.
 

Beth S. (334)
Friday November 16, 2012, 12:37 pm
Thanks for posting, Alex. You might be interested in a time line of what's going on moment-to-moment of Hamas attacks as well as Syrian and Egyptian on Israel and how Israel is responding:

http://www.haaretz.com/misc/breaking-news
 

Gillian M. (218)
Friday November 16, 2012, 1:06 pm
Personally, I thought that antagonistic was aggressive, not reacting to protect citizens being killed and wounded which is exactly what Gloria would be demanding from her country the moment it was attacked. All I seem to get from those who hate Israel is that Israelis are not allowed to protect themselves, the basic right of any sovereign nation.

Would Gloria like to explain to me why Israel cannot do so?
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Friday November 16, 2012, 1:20 pm
Gloria, if Israel was antagonistic, the number of Arab victims would be much bigger. Israel would not spend huge time and effort to warn civilians - something nobody does.

Hamas does not give warning to Israelis before their bombing. That's why I support Israel and do not support Palestinian Arabs cause anymore.
 

Gene Jacobson (266)
Friday November 16, 2012, 1:57 pm
There are no winners in this conflict nor will there ever be as long as the medium of discourse is weaponry. Israel has every right to defend itself. From what I know, it did not instigate this latest flare up. The people of Islam in that region must be willing to set aside their weapons and dedicate themselves to finding a peaceful solution, many have been proposed over the years, all rejected. If the only outcome the Arab nations will accept is the annihilation of Israel, there can never be peace. And both sides need love their children's lives more than they love war for any hope to last long in that region. Other age old enemies have learned to coexist, to beat their swords into plowshares and so too must the people of the middle east. How they, any of them, can tolerate this never ending horror of bombs and murder and the constant deaths of innocents is beyond my understanding. "I will make war no more forever". That should be the objective, then the solution will present itself. Peaceful coexistence is the only solution the world will accept, it is up to the world and the people of the region to understand this and then get past their differences, their ideology and stop killing each others children to no purpose whatsoever, other than to further the carnage. We have to be better than this, all of us, everywhere, and all of the time. Or we are all lost.
 

Gillian M. (218)
Friday November 16, 2012, 2:51 pm
Gloria, try this http://www.care2.com/news/member/100661215/3486547
 

. (0)
Friday November 16, 2012, 3:04 pm
Arielle S: In fact it IS the role of the President to police the wold. As Commander in Chief he is the overseer of the free world. This has been the unwritten power of the President since James Monroe. Before there was a UN to make a disaster of policy and diplomacy, it was the President who was involved in conflicts involving our bordering countries, and nations friendly to us world wide.
 

pam w. (139)
Friday November 16, 2012, 3:49 pm
Our President is also responsible for bad weather, hemorrhoids and high tides, according to Allan.

Israel has every right to defend itself. Period. Hamas has been harrassing the Israelis for years...everyone knows it. Some 14,000 shells have been lobbed into Israeli territory....and they have a right to fire back. This situation is like a little dog which nips and nips and nips at the bull's heels and them complains LOUDLY when the bull kicks back.
 

Gloria H. (88)
Friday November 16, 2012, 4:38 pm
ww3 coming up? Just peachy. Religious wars end life on the planet. Aliens/cockroaches take over. Who will be left to publish The Inquirer?
 

june t. (66)
Friday November 16, 2012, 5:52 pm
The news I hear is always "Israel attacks again" , the headline should instead say that Israel is defending themselves again. They are in a tough spot, completely surrounded by enemies, and they do have a right to defend themselves.
 

Myron Scott (70)
Friday November 16, 2012, 6:55 pm
"Everybody gotta be someplace." That "someplace" should be a place they can call their "homeland."
 

Cam V. (417)
Friday November 16, 2012, 8:36 pm
No he is not responsible for hemmroids - unless he get them himself from too much golf or sitting around. But he is responsible for the failure of the American foreign policy.
 

Henrik Thorsen (28)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 4:58 am
I certainly do care.
 

Aletta Kraan (146)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:08 am
I care very much for both sides , thanks !!!
 

Gillian M. (218)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:38 am
Israel has every right to take action against the relentless terror meted out to its civilian population
By Peter Mullen

I have just been reading the latest bulletin from the Hamas Propaganda Bureau – sorry, I mean of course the BBC – who inform us that Israeli forces have killed “ … eleven Palestinians, mainly militants, but also children.” The general tone of the report makes it sound as if the Israel Defence Force set out wantonly to begin a new massacre of the innocents. Regrettably, children will be killed if they have to share their schools with rockets and stashes of high explosives. The truth is that Israel’s military strikes were belated retaliation for the Hamas bombardment by 800 rockets this year and 120 during the last week.

The entire population of southern Israel lives in constant terror. And if we’re talking about the suffering of children, imagine what it’s like to be a little boy or girl in small southern towns and villages such as Sderot, where they have half a minute’s warning to sprint to the air-raid shelters, and where the schools are closed for weeks at a time. I haven’t been to southern Israel, but I have visited the north, near the border with Lebanon, on days when Hizbollah were firing Katyusha rockets at the civilian population. To have to live under such a threat is to know the meaning of terror.

The recent increase in violence was provoked by the Israelis’ killing of Ahmed Said Khalil Jabari, military leader of Hamas: a man complicit in the kidnapping of the Israeli soldier Shalit and responsible for most of the terrorist acts launched from Gaza over the last 10 years. He himself once boasted that the men under his control were responsible for the deaths of 569 Israeli civilians. Yesterday this dead terrorist was praised by the leaders of Hizbollah and declared a martyr by representatives of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.

These recent eruptions of violence are of course only the latest in a long war of attrition which has been going on since the foundation of the State of Israel in 1948. The country is surrounded by its enemies. Four times since 1948 these enemies have made war on Israel.

No doubt the Palestinians have legitimate grievances coupled with territorial aspirations. Israel has generally understood these grievances, and time and again tried to meet its opponents halfway. For instance, I remember the talks between Yasser Arafat and the Israeli prime minister brokered by the US in which the sides came close to a two-state solution to the problem. Arafat smiled agreeably, got on the plane back to the Middle East and immediately declared a second intifada, a violent uprising against Israel.

To be sure, this is a labyrinthine mess, but beyond the ceaseless argy-bargy there is one real and pressing question: wouldn’t any sovereign state take strong action in response to the relentless terror meted out to its civilian population?
 

John Gregoire (279)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:59 am
Wow, I'm almost afraid to weigh in here what with all the finger pointing and invective. However you all miss the crux of this tragedy. The Iranians are but a few months away from being able to field a nuclear weapon. That must be very close to Isreal's "trip wire" for direct action. So what happens, the Iranians divert attention by arming Hamas with rockets and getting them to attack Israel. Egypt Islamists weigh in on the Hamas side yesterday making a regional conflict seem likely. While Israel is busy defending itself, Iran will be whistling in the dark and making bombs.

Our prayers are with the people of Israel and with all the innocent Palestinians and Israelis caught up in this war.
 

Isabelle J. (87)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 8:51 am
Innocent people will pay, it's very sad !
 

Alexa R. (323)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 8:57 am
Thanks for joining us in prayer for all the innocent Palestinians and Israelis caught up in this war with your eyes bravely wide open amidts the wild finger-pointing and invective (a mere distraction tactic while whistling in the dark for sure).

As Peter Mullen said also in the piece shared by Gillian: we all need to keep our eyes wide open and look

"beyond the ceaseless argy-bargy ..."

Only then may we see the crux of this tragedy and be able to create peace, lasting peace.

 

Gillian M. (218)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 11:46 am
Alex, I'm afraid that I can't send you another green star but I was able to send one to John.

I am always saddened that the Palestinians are used and abused by terrorists yet so few see it. They use them as human shields and brainwash the children into hatred. Arafat and Abbas have had many opportunities for peace but have deliberately refrained from doing so as they want Israel destroyed.

From the Hamas Charter:
THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS

=======================================

The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August 18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS,

is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS

Covenant:

Goals of the HAMAS:

'The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.' (Article 6)

On the Destruction of Israel:

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)

The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area:

'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.' (Article 11)

'Palestine is an Islamic land. Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be.' (Article 13)

The Call to Jihad:

'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)

'Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about.' (Article 33)

Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)

Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:

'Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle [against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle.

...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason,

and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act.' (Article 32)

Anti-Semitic Incitement:

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)

'The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money, they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions - which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ... and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them having their finger in it.' (Article 22)

'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32)

'The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped
for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews.' (Article 32)
 

Gillian M. (218)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 12:53 pm
And what has that to do with your anti-Semitism? It does not make his article any less valid.

How pathetic that this is the best that you can come up with to smear a comment! I suppose that it goes along with your imaginary world.
 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 1:10 pm

As long as the world takes sides, as long as humans find excuses there will be war. In WWII 65 million people died, and in the end, who won any thing? Children were left without parents, countries devastated, and in the end, there were no winners, only those who lost more.

The background of the exodus to Israel is clear and the reasons known. Any two countries living in this proximity can find common ground for resolution of the issues, but it's politically advantageous to not make a settlement nor an agreement.

So while some of you celebrate another victory for Israel, please think that innocents on both sides of this are dying. There is nothing here to support, that is unless you believe war is ever an answer.

I don't see any one here that has said one hateful comment about Israel. Yet, by feeling for those on both sides of this those who hope for peace are condemned. Very sad and so very lost.
 

Alexa R. (323)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 2:46 pm
Gillian Miller (208)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 11:46 am

I am always saddened that the Palestinians are used and abused by terrorists yet so few see it. They use them as human shields and brainwash the children into hatred. Arafat and Abbas have had many opportunities for peace but have deliberately refrained from doing so as they want Israel destroyed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Exactly Gillian! I cannot help but ask myself 'how can Israel negotiate peace with the likes of Hamas, Abbas, Arafat et al?' Only through an absolute miracle will the enemies of Israel be stopped in their determination to keep those rockets raining down on Israel.

In the mean time we all have to suffer the spilled blood of innocents on both sides ...
 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 2:49 pm

Gillian, you do NOT know ANYTHING about me.

I have many Jewish friends. In fact, I lived for about 4 years with an old friend, his mother and his daughter (who he was a single parent to). To this day, years later, we still correspond -- and she considers me to be her BFF.

I cared for his mother, Lillian, not as a job -- just cuz I loved her -- daily; making sure she took the myriad medications she needed. They all considered me part of the family. I attended (on special occasions) Temple with them.

When Dani (his daughter) was 12, I took her to Hebrew school (and, being that she was ADHD, I quizzed her daily) so that she could have her Bat Mitzvah, for which I prepared the celebratory meal.

From the moment I entered their house as a resident, I was considered family, and as such, was treat with respect -- as I did likewise.

Shame on you for such unfounded accusations.

 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 2:51 pm

And by the way, Lillian (Jack's mother) died about a year after I joined the family.

Because they were so beside themselves, I took charge of setting up the household to sit shiva.

 

Gillian M. (218)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 2:58 pm
My best friend is a Jew and? So many people said that in Germany pre WWII and then immediately handed them over to the SS, and in France.......

No-one here has ever said that Israel is perfect but so many here make it clear that Israel has no right to protect itself. People, such as yourself and kit, have made it clear that it is unacceptable. I am continually pointing out that Israel is suffering and has put up with the world's condemnation for doing that which any other country claims to be its own right. There is always a huge outcry against Israel and if you look that is what we are saying. You, and the others, always ignore it. We also point out what the illegal terrorists do without one comment from anywhere, no sanctions and no investigations against them except by those who have predetermined that it is down to Israel. We are insulted and condemned.

You have followed mm all around the board and have been a chorus to whatever hatred, anti-Semitism or downright racist rubbish that she comes up with. kit now comes up with this hatred and then you both pretend to be sweet as sugar. What a load of old rubbish!
 

Cam V. (417)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 2:58 pm
Gillian, I have to say that Just Carole is anti war whoever is at it. Has been all the time I have been here.

The kind of hate that is propagated in this thread is the same kind of hate that exists in that region and that is why peace is hard to come by. If we cannot maintain it in a newsthread how can we ever expect it be maintained outside in the real world?

Israel exists. They have a right to exist and once we agree on that perhaps the rest will follow?
 

Gillian M. (218)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:02 pm
I should add that none of you ever turn up on news items regarding the abuses against non-Muslims and Muslims by Muslims around the world. Paedophilia, murder, rape, forced conversions, acid throwing and you are friends with someone who believes that they should suffer, that is the lowest of the low.
 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:03 pm

There is no reasoning with anyone so consumed with self-righteous hatred.

 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:06 pm

There are words in our vocabulary that should be measured very carefully, they carry great weight and pass terrible judgements on others. Most of us would consider that before using that sort of language on an Internet site, where our words can last a life-time.

Those who have no balanced reasoned argument are the first to use words of condemnation toward others.

Thank you, Carole for allowing an insight to your own personal background. Some of us are born to heritage, others learn from our company with that heritage. The world is full of people that carry unique and widely differing backgrounds or cultural heritage from our own. We learn to be open and enjoy the differences or we remain closed off from the world. Like most things in life, it's a choice.
 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:08 pm

Perhaps Gillian those people, myself included have just not appeared on your sites. These conversations occur all the time and on sites where differing ideas are welcomed.
 

Alexa R. (323)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:19 pm
Transcript

LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: The Middle East is teetering on the edge of full-scale conflict after an Israeli air strike killed the commander of the military wing of the Palestinian organisation Hamas. Ahmed Jabari died in an attack on his car. He's allegedly behind a string of deadly attacks and the kidnapping of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in 2006.

There've been more than 50 air strikes on the Palestinian Territory in the past 24 hours, demolishing houses and killing at least 10 people.

The strikes are retaliation for rocket attacks launched on Israel by militants in Gaza, killing three Israelis. And the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has threatened to broaden the operation.

Joining me now from Jerusalem is the Israeli Prime Minister's spokesman Mark Regev.

Mr Regev, is the current operation going to be broadened?

MARK REGEV, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER'S SPOKESMAN: The current operation is fundamentally defensive. I mean, the civilian population of Israel's south has been on the receiving end of very deadly rockets and missiles not for days, not for weeks, but for months now. And enough is enough. Israel is acting to defend our people, as I believe the Australian Government would if Australia was - Australian citizens were being rocketed by terrorists. We will continue this operation until we can bring peace and security to those million Israelis who live in the southern part of our country.

LEIGH SALES: Will there be a ground campaign to back up what you're currently doing?

MARK REGEV: I don't want to go into operational matters; you understand that. I can say the following: Hamas has built in Gaza a very formidable military machine. They've been supported by the Iranians, they've received, unfortunately, weapons from Libya after Libya fragmented. They have thousands of rockets in Gaza. Now in our opening salvo, we took out a lot of their long-range rockets, the ones that could hit Tel-Aviv, we've hit a lot of their military infrastructure. But I know that Hamas remains a formidable enemy, and today we've seen unfortunately the rocketing of all the Israeli cities in the south; we've had casualties. We have to deal with this threat and we have to try to neutralise that threat so Israelis who live in the southern part of my country can live in a bit of peace and quiet.

LEIGH SALES: What - you say you've taken out their long-range rockets, you've taken out their military leader. What are your further defined objectives?

MARK REGEV: I think the most important objective from Israel point of view is that we get peace and quiet in the south. People in Gaza have to understand, that Hamas leadership has to understand that it's simply not acceptable that they throw rockets, shoot rockets into our cities. And here we have to be very clear: Hamas makes no distinction between military and civilian targets. They have deliberately targeted over an extended period of time Israeli civilian communities. They've targeted schools and kindergartens and daycare centres and places of worship. They have no inhibitions. They see every Israeli civilian as a legitimate target - man, woman and child. As a result, it's not just Israel that sees them as a terrorist organisation. Australia has declared them a terrorist organisation; Canada, the United States, the European Union, Japan and others. Our war is not with the Palestinian people. We want peace with the Palestinians. But Hamas is the enemy of everyone who wants to see peace and reconciliation here in the Middle East.

LEIGH SALES: Does Israel see every Palestinian person as a legitimate target given that two children died in these latest attacks?

MARK REGEV: No, you know, we have given instructions to our military to be as surgical as is possible in a very difficult combat situation. We are trying to avoid any, what the experts call collateral damage. We don't want to see the innocent civilian population of Gaza harmed. On the contrary; in many ways Gaza civilians are also a victim of a very brutal regime, that Hamas regime, that rules Gaza with an iron fist, has tried to establish some sort of Taliban regime there in Gaza, and instead of investing in the future of people of Gaza, building better schools, roads, infrastructure, is committed to this jihad against Israel above and beyond the needs or the desires of the people of Gaza.

LEIGH SALES: How is this action though going to encourage Hamas to cease its attacks? Aren't they now simply going to escalate and then you're going to escalate and it's going to get worse?

MARK REGEV: Well, first of all, we know it could get worse before it gets better. That we understand. I mean, the long-term solution is peace, but at the moment we have to defend ourselves against these very, very deadly attacks. The previous very, very serious round of violence four years ago led to a period of three, four years, up until very recently, period of quiet. Now hopefully we can come out of this operation with a situation where no longer will children on both sides of the frontier have to fear from violence. We don't want a situation where tens of thousands of Israeli schoolchildren spend their days in bomb shelters instead of in classrooms.

LEIGH SALES: Egypt has withdrawn its ambassador to Israel. Has your government spoken to Egypt or other neighbours about what you're doing in the past 24 hours?

MARK REGEV: I don't want to go into specific diplomatic contacts and you can understand why. I will say the following: we say to all governments, all members of the United Nations: which one of you would tolerate a situation where your civilian population was being targeted day after day, week after week, month after month by terrorists from across the border? Which one of you would sit by idly and just say, "That's alright. This is not important?" Every UN member would act just as Israel is acting today to defend its people because ultimately that's the obligation of every government: to defend the people being attacked. We have no authority as a government unless we act to protect our people.

LEIGH SALES: Mark Regev, thank you very much for your time tonight.

MARK REGEV: My pleasure.
 

Alexa R. (323)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:25 pm
Cam V. (415)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 2:58 pm

The kind of hate that is propagated in this thread is the same kind of hate that exists in that region and that is why peace is hard to come by. If we cannot maintain it in a news thread how can we ever expect it be maintained outside in the real world?

Israel exists. They have a right to exist and once we agree on that perhaps the rest will follow?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Exactly Cam ..! I thought the transcript in my previous comment explains it very well ..
 

Gillian M. (218)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:33 pm
kit, did I say anything about my news? But so few people do post such items so I would have seen you in passing had you ever turned up.
 

Cam V. (417)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:44 pm
Words are the most powerful weapon we as humans often wield like swords. Once spoken they can be forgiven but never forgotten if they are hurtful to others. It is all right to be angry about what is taking place over there but to direct that anger at folks who do not see things exactly the way you do is wrong.

I have been guilty of that myself. We need to remember that we are very lucky here to have for the most part the freedoms to express ourselves. Post stories we find. Beyond that we also need to keep our comments directed at the story itself and the writer if you must. But never the poster.

Doing so assumes we agreed with everything the article said and often we do not. Everything we find is fodder for discussions but personal attacks of any kind are never the right thing to do. I try now to walk away from making a post if I am angry. I do not get it right all the time but most of the time.

Perhaps we could all do that? It would make Care 2 a much better place to hang out at for sure.
 

Alexa R. (323)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:06 pm
Totally agreed Cam! It would make care2 so much more of a better place to hang out.

Some of my Israeli friends ask me why I even bother with care2 as it is like a lamb willingly walking in for hate-filled anti-Israel slaughter, I should sign any animal/human-rights petitions without being a care2 member..

But i tell them that i am so proud of my country and so feel all the innocents' pain in this war, that i try and stomach as much of this anti-semitic anti-Israel hatred i can survive in my lame attempt to balance the media bias, in sharing the unheard side of the conflict.

 

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:16 pm

It's refreshing to hear that you are open to hearing the "unheard side of the conflict," Alexandra.
 
Here's some more of the story you may not have heard:
 
Rabbi Arthur Waskow | Gaza-Israel Violence: The Fuller Story
 
 
 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:41 pm

The point you miss is that one need not attack others to feel for those in Israel or Palestine that are being harmed. It's not Anti-Semitic to disagree with the policies of the country of Israel. In the US we consider it growth to hear from all sides of any topic, we may not agree. We do grow because of the insights of the many and not just the few.
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:50 pm
Just Carole has learnt little in her time away from these posts. Who always starts these conflicts? Why the 'Religion of Peace' of course. The Jews are entitled to a country and entitled to live in peace. However the Dogs of Hell that surround them - do not think so. Since 2000 there have been in excess of 12,000 rockets fired daily into Israel. They have not retaliated until now. Enough is enough - any western country would respond in kind - but when Israel does it - the anti-Israel morons trot out their meagre offerings. They do not seem to see the whole picture - and just want to belong to what is the popular war chant these days ' Blame Israel'. Even if a 2 state solution becomes a reality - the Palestinians still won't be satisfied. They have always caused trouble wherever they settle. Egypt kicked them out, so did Jordan and Syria. Wonder why? After all they were followers of the Koran? Truth be told - it is their 'dog in a manger' attitude - they think the world owes them a living. Someone should tell them - first they have to earn it.
 

Cam V. (417)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:07 pm
I think that once the attacks begin the listening stops. I heard some on the right trying to demonize Code Pink for instance. I took the time to look into what that organization does and while I do not agree with everything there it is actually a group opposed to war no matter where it is happening. Do I think it wise to involve itself in such a volitile place in the world? No because someone is going to get hurt. Both sides particularily there have sent so much barbed language to each other over these many years they stopped listening to each other years and years ago.

Lets not use them as the example of what we should do here.
 

Alexa R. (323)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:28 pm
Just Carole (594)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:16 pm

It's refreshing to hear that you are open to hearing the "unheard side of the conflict," Alexandra.

Here's some more of the story you may not have heard:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Glad you find my openness refreshing. It is one of the beauties of Israeli society, the fact that we are all allowed to express our opinions even if wildly opposing. In fact, it is almost expected that people will strongly disagree even among friends.

Apologies if it disappoints you Just Carole, but what you share is nothing new, we get that sort of news not only from America but even from fellow Israelis. The Israeli news is awash with it, no different to the US, EU, UK, etc news outlets. I'm sure every person on this thread would also say that they've heard similar blaming-it-all-on-Israel before a dime a dozen. None of us are spared the blame-it-all-on-Israel view on the situation as even this thread's article clearly states, we're all awash in it.

So I find the following statement from the link you provided rather banal: "Reading the Israeli papers about the escalation between Gaza and Israel, [one would never think] that the Palestinians may be responding to Israeli killings as well as incursions into their territory."

Emphasis mine .. huh? Which planet is this 'one' who would never think that he's talking about? At least he used the word 'may be'. Because on this planet there are only too many happily, even gleefully pointing their fingers at Israel without even knowing what is really going on.

It's most certainly not the unheard side of the story that you presented to us Just Carole! But if it suits you to think so, be my guest, you must have your reasons for it I guess.

 

JL A. (286)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 7:01 pm
Perhaps I'm naive, but in the information and statements shared in this thread are at least three distinctly different positions and I see many responses as if there are only two positions so if someone doesn't sound as if they share identical views they are assigned the most opposing position.

Few conflicts in history could ever be said to be so clear-cut without any shades of gray that there were only two positions. Many pacifists were imprisoned during WWI because that third position (conscientious objector) was not accepted as outside the dichotomy.

Those who do not learn from history seem doomed to repeat it.

Cam, thank you for striving to have all posting display human decency, humanity and respect. I wiish all could have heard you better.
 

Imran A. (10)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 7:00 pm
The bully (Islam) attacks and no one says anything.

Israel defends herself, even trying not to harm Muslim civilians, and the world cries out against Israel.

This is insanity.
 

Kenneth L. (314)
Monday November 19, 2012, 7:27 am
Alexandra: "it is like a lamb willingly walking in for hate-filled anti-Israel slaughter" Funny, but I think the same way about the hate-filled anti-Muslim stories on C2, which would be over 200 per year, which are usually full of the same dozen or so C2 members....

And any one,, who disagrees with the dozen or so, or is not as hate-filled against Islam, whether Muslim or non-Muslim member is sliced, diced, ground into the dirt. Seen it for a couple years now.

That may be one reason why many C2 members don't ever join those story threads, unless you're masochistic(enjoy inflicting pain on yourself).

Any college or university debate about Islam or the Israel-Palestine conflict, with Muslims and non-Muslims alike, and Jews, etc on the panel,. has more intelligence and value to the viewer in it's little finger.

Personally, I was always amazed at the endless false statements made about me personally about 'how I feel' and 'what I am' and 'what I think' by those dozen C2 members that I had to continually point out and correct. It was non-stop.
 

Kenneth L. (314)
Monday November 19, 2012, 7:48 am
Btw., Gillian believed one reason not to vote for Obama in the last election was because his wife hugged the Queen. LOL! And it was SOOOOOO terrible. It was SOOOOOO bad. It was SOOOOOO uncalled for and invaded the queen's space, and all every other bad bullshit she could come up with. Why? To make Obama, who of course is married to Michelle, look bad, look worse. Gillian was indulging her agenda no matter how pathetically ludicrous she looked. Nice one! And thank you!
 

Kenneth L. (314)
Monday November 19, 2012, 8:01 am
My own 2 cents is of course Israel should be able to defend itself. As a last resort though, since any rational person would communicate first to try to resolve things. However, IMO, some people will not and have decided they will never resolve anything, and so if they lob missiles as a result, they obviously can't be reasoned with and must be taken out by force.
And wanting peace doesn't AUTOMATICALLY EQUAL you are 'anti-Israel' or against Israel defending itself as Gillian has tried to make others look like. That's an incorrect conclusion.
 

Kit B. (276)
Monday November 19, 2012, 9:13 am

Very true, Ken. I have and will continue to critique my own country for being embroiled in wars. I just wonder when, or what is the point that people reach out in peace? These two groups are very different and yet, share many things, the most important being the love, hopes and dreams for their children. Peace in this region may not be accomplished in a standard or treaty fashion, it sure hasn't worked so far.
 

Lynn Squance (227)
Monday November 19, 2012, 10:50 pm
Are we, as human beings, so fixated on violence that that is all we understand? Yes, Israel has the right to defend itself. Sometimes I feel like shouting STFU and then rolling up my sleeves to get at the heart of the matter and get down to peace and justice. Let's plant the seeds of hope, love, justice, and peace. And yes, because human beings are so tribal, I think a two state solution is the best, but that too requires seeds of hope, love, justice and peace.

People --- children, women, men --- on all sides of this conflict deserve hope, love, justice and peace.

What is the sound of one hand clapping? Silence. It takes two hands to clap, and it takes two peoples to sound the notes of peace.

 

Rajee Seetharam (138)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 12:51 am
Thank you for forwarding this post to me Alexandra....my heart is with Israel and Palestine....praying for PEACE.
Noted.
 

Nancy C. (810)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 6:22 pm
Please be safe and know that I am grateful for your forward Alexandra (and all innocents in Israel and Palestine). I'm worried and send hope for all caught in the web of unrest. Wonder if Secretary Clinton's visits will have any effect.
 

Carol Kemp (45)
Wednesday November 21, 2012, 4:02 pm
Dearest friend Alexandra, thank you for forwarding, very sorry not to have replied before. My thoughts and prayers are with those suffering and my dearest wish is for peace through mediation. Was so pleased to see so many friends and kind people supporting! Bless and protect the inoccent and pathe the way for peace! Please God! Love and blessing to you all! Carol xx
 

Gillian M. (218)
Thursday November 22, 2012, 3:13 pm
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=5124

Entertainment for Abbas and PA leaders:
All of Israel is "my land"

by Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook

For a third time PA TV has broadcast a Fatah event held in the presence of Mahmoud Abbas and many other senior PA officials, at which a Palestinian singer defined all of Israel as Palestinian. He sings that "my land" and "our coast" span from Rosh Hanikra in Israel's north to Rafah in the Gaza Strip in the South, and from Haifa on Israel's Western coast to Beit Shean on Israel's Eastern border. It was broadcast on Feb. 27, May 12, and now again on May 27, 2011.

Contrary to the PA leaders' claim that they recognize Israel's right to exist, their controlled TV and cultural events continue to reinforce the PA message of non-recognition of Israel by depicting all of Israel as "Palestine."

The Fatah members filling the large auditorium are shown clapping enthusiastically to the song.

The following are the words of the song at the Fatah event:

"We commit and promise to stand behind you, oh Mahmoud Abbas, until Judgment Day. I am returning to you, the purest land, oh land of the free. No matter how long the nights of exile, I am returning to you, oh land. From Rafah to Rosh Hanikra (northern Israel) our coast, and Beit Shean (Israeli city). Above your soil, oh my land, is a picture of Garden of Eden. From Rafah to Rosh Hanikra our coast, and Beit Shean. Above your soil, oh my land, is a picture of Garden of Eden. From Rafah to Rosh Hanikra, north and south, are the picture's borders. From Haifa (Israeli city) and Tantura to the [Jordan] valley (i.e., all of Israel). I am returning to you, the purest land, oh land of the free."
[PA TV (Fatah), Feb. 27, May 12, and May 27, 2011]

On April 13, PA TV broadcast a different song presenting all Israeli cities as Palestinian.
 

Gillian M. (218)
Thursday November 22, 2012, 3:14 pm
http://palwatch.org/pages/news_archive.aspx?doc_id=5069

Abbas claims a fictitious 9000 year-old Palestinian history in Israel
Palestinian TV (Fatah) - May 14, 2011

Abbas speech in Gaza, delivered in his name by his advisor and representative Abdallah Al-Ifranji, in honor of "nakba" day - "catastrophe" day, the day the PA mourns the creation of the State of Israel:
PA moderator of PA Gaza event: "The speech of President Mahmoud Abbas, Chairman of the PLO Executive Committee and President of the Palestinian Authority, will be delivered by the comrade, the great fighter, Abdallah Al-Ifranji, representative and advisor of the President."
Mahmoud Abbas, (delivered by his representative, Abdallah Al-Ifranji): "National reconciliation [between Hamas and Fatah] is required in order to face Israel and Netanyahu. We say to him [Netanyahu], when he claims - that they [Jews] have a historical right dating back to 3000 years BCE - we say that the nation of Palestine upon the land of Canaan had a 7000 year history BCE. This is the truth, which must be understood and we have to note it, in order to say: 'Netanyahu, you are incidental in history. We are the people of history. We are the owners of history.'"
 

Gillian M. (218)
Thursday November 22, 2012, 3:18 pm
PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas holds up a "map of Palestine" that includes all of Israel
Source: Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 26, 2010
This picture appeared in the official PA daily and the caption read: “President Abbas holds up a stone model of the map of Palestine.”

Abbas: "I will not accept a Jewish State"
Source: Palestinian TV (Fatah), Apr. 27, 2009
Mahmoud Abbas, PA Chairman and Head of Fatah:
"The 'Jewish state.' What is a 'Jewish state?' We call it, the 'State of Israel.' You can call yourselves whatever you want. But I will not accept it. And I say this on a live broadcast... It's not my job to define it, to provide a definition for the state and what it contains. You can call yourselves the Zionist Republic, the Hebrew, the National, the Socialist [Republic] call it whatever you like. I don't care."

PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas displays a map of "Palestine" erasing Israel
Source: Palestinian TV (Fatah), Apr. 27, 2009
PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas displays a map of "Palestine" that erases Israel. The names of the neighboring countries of "Palestine" are written in English: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. There is no mention of Israel.

Abbas speaks in his headquarters in front of map erasing Israel
Source: Al-Ayyam, Nov. 24, 2008
The Palestinian flag over map of "Palestine" that erases all of Israel.

Abbas with PLO flag erasing Israel
Source: Palestinian TV (Fatah), Jan. 13, 2008
Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas stands at attention in front of the PLO symbol, which places the Palestinian flag over the map of Israel. This symbolizes that all of Israel is, or will someday be, "Palestine." The picture is from the a PLO Central Committee meeting broadcast on PA TV.

Abbas: Story of 6 million cremated Jews is propaganda
Source: The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism, by Mahmoud Abbas, Feb. 15, 1984
PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas’s thesis, "The Other Side: The Secret Relations between Nazism and the Leadership of the Zionist Movement" (Translation by Wiesenthal Center):
"Having more victims meant greater rights and stronger privilege to join the negotiation table for dividing the spoils of war once it was over. However, since Zionism was not a fighting partner -- suffering victims in a battle -- it had no escape but to offer up human beings, under any name, to raise the number of victims, which they could then boast of at the moment of accounting…
It seems that the interest of the Zionist movement...is to inflate this figure so that their gains will be greater. This led them to emphasize this figure in order to gain the solidarity of international public opinion with Zionism. Many scholars have debated the figure of six million and reached stunning conclusions -- fixing the number of Jewish victims at only a few hundred thousand."

 

Gillian M. (218)
Thursday November 22, 2012, 3:20 pm
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye-on-palestine/palestinian-authority-still-teaching-kids-to-hate-israel/2012/09/04/

Palestinian Authority Still Teaching Kids to Hate Israel
By: Anav Silverman, Tazpit News Agency
Published: September 4th, 2012

s the school year opens across the world, Gaza will have a new course taught in some of its schools, called Know Your Enemy. The class is a Hebrew course which Hamas officials decided to include back in March as part of the Gaza education curriculum this year.

According to a New York Times article in May, the director general of Hamas’s Ministry of Education, Mahmoud Matar, stated that “through the Hebrew language we can understand the structure of Israeli society, the way they think.”

It will be the first time the Hebrew language will be taught in Gaza schools in almost 20 years. If successful, Hamas will have all 180 schools in Gaza teach the Hebrew language in the future.

“We look at Israel as an enemy. We teach our students the language of the enemy,” said Matar in the Times article.

According to Dr. Eldad Pardo, a senior researcher at IMPACT-SE, (Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education) and a teacher at Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Matar’s hateful language against Israel is characteristic of the themes taught in Palestinian Authority school textbooks.

“Palestinian schoolchildren learn that Jews have no connection to the land of Israel, that Jews belong to Europe. These textbooks say nothing about the Jews from Arab countries,” Pardo told the Tazpit News Agency.

“Jewish holy places in Israel are not recognized. They are presented as Muslim holy sites taken over by Jews. There is no recognition of Jewish people as a nation. Israelis are depicted as criminals and thieves,” Pardo added.

“The fundamentals regarding Israel are the same, both in the secular PA textbooks and religious textbooks, although the religious textbooks take a significantly harder, more anti-Semitic line, glorifying martyrdom and jihad,” said Pardo.

IMPACT-SE conducted a study of 70 Palestinian Authority student books and 22 teacher guides, along with 25 student books issued by the PA Ministry of Endowments and Religious Affairs last year. All 118 books and guides are in current use at PA schools.

Pardo did emphasize that there were improvements in the secular government textbooks. “There are positive themes like equal rights for women, passages against terror and violence within society, more education for democracy, and the like.”

“But the bottom line is that these textbooks do not promote peace with Israel. There is not one map where Tel Aviv appears in a Palestinian textbook,” said Pardo.

Israel’s approach to the conflict is very different according to Pardo. “In the Israeli education system, there is much respect for Arab culture, recognition that Palestinians have a national movement and respect for holy Muslim sites. Students also learn Arabic in schools.”

In Israel, Arabic studies are compulsory from the seventh to ninth grade, while some schools continue to teach the language until the end of high school or begin in the fifth grade onwards. Arabic is Israel’s second official language. The former head of Arabic studies in Israel’s Ministry of Education, Dr. Shlomo Alon, stated to Israel’s Walla news site two years ago that “studying Arabic will promote tolerance and convey a message of acceptance.”

“The difference is that Israel sees itself as part of the Middle East region and wants to fit in, while the Arab world does not accept the Jewish state. This does not mean that there is no dialogue between Jewish and Arab students in Israel because there are many education programs bringing these students together—but that’s not what the PA wants Palestinian students learning from their textbooks,” concluded Pardo.
 

Gillian M. (218)
Thursday November 22, 2012, 3:21 pm
http://www.sayyestopeace.org/Teaching%20Hate.asp

Teaching Hate

"Say Yes to Peace" means that peace must be taught. However Palestinian media, school books, religious sermons, children's television shows, and official PA pronouncements are saturated with hatred for Jewish people and for Israel. Maps in Palestinian classrooms and school books do not show Israel, but instead identify places like Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Jaffa as Palestinian cities. Radical Islam teaches that the Jewish State is on sacred Muslim land and must be eliminated. Hamas, the Palestinian leadership in Gaza, remains committed to its founding charter which calls for the obliteration of Israel and spreads this message through the government controlled media in Gaza. Terrorism against Jews is glorified as noble, and public squares and sports teams are named after notorious terrorists. On March 11, 2010, the Palestinian Authority [PA] named a Ramallah square in honor of Dalal Mughrabi, the leader of the worst terrorist incident in Israeli's history. Thirty-eight innocent Israelis were murdered in the 1978 attack. In January 2006, PA president Abbas announced he would continue the PA policy of paying suicide bombers' families with annual stipends.

It is deeply disturbing that countries all over the world have not yet condemned the incitement to hatred and murder of Jews in Palestinian society.
 
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