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Between a Rock and a Very Hard Place

World  (tags: 'CIVILLIBERTIES!', conflict, death, ethics, freedoms, israel, middle-east, palestine, politics, terrorism, violence, war, Hamas, Muslims, terrorists, terrorism )

- 2036 days ago -
In Israel, an enormous call-up of reservists suggests that a ground invasion of Gaza is imminent - although this evening there are rumours of a brokered ceasefire. The prospect of a ground invasion fills Israelis with dread. A ground invasion means that

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Gillian M (218)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:42 pm
In Israel, an enormous call-up of reservists suggests that a ground invasion of Gaza is imminent - although this evening there are rumours of a brokered ceasefire. The prospect of a ground invasion fills Israelis with dread. A ground invasion means that Israeli soldiers will go into Gaza street by street and house by house to destroy the rocket launchers, rockets and ammunition dumps where they have been stored. Many have been situated in residential neighbourhoods, for two reasons: first, to deter the Israel Defence Force from attacking them for fear of killing civilians as a consequence; and second, to ensure that many Gazan civilians are indeed killed, thus guaranteeing an international outcry so that Israel will be forced to stop its operation to destroy these weapons.

Such a ground operation, where from past experience many of these places have been booby-trapped, carry the certainty of a high casualty rate among the Israeli soldiers.

That is why Israel today waits in dread. People in Britain and elsewhere who have the luxury of living in a country that has not been under existential attack for six decades have absolutely no idea of the extraordinary pressure under which so many Israeli families live. Their children are conscripted into the armed forces because Israel is under permanent threat of attack by an Arab and Muslim world which is determined to wipe Israel off the map.

And so these young Israelis are sent to fight and some of them -- maybe many of them -- will die, in a country where every such life that is lost is a national tragedy because the Jewish people was almost wiped out half a century ago, and their families will be torn apart - all because millions of murderous fanatics who believe the Jews must not be allowed to live in their own historic homeland continue to try to destroy that homeland and murder as many Jews as possible. And many more of Israel's children will die if the Israel Defence Force starts a ground war in Gaza. Yet Israelis also know that if the rockets and missiles from Gaza are to stop, a ground war may be the only way to destroy these weapons since there is a limit to what can be achieved by aerial bombardment.

This is the kind of rock and very hard place indeed dilemma under which Israelis live week in, week out - and have done for more than sixty years, all because a bunch of fanatics are bent on their annihilation. Yet none of this is acknowledged by those in Britain, whose hearts bleed for the Palestinians who are the aggressors in this conflict but never for the Israelis who are their victims - and whose motives in mounting such a military operation must therefore be assumed to be malevolent or evil.

Among western leaders, the hypocrisy is particularly odious. Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague, who has been saying Israel has the right to defend itself against attack, nevertheless also says :

'Israel does have to bear in mind that it is when ground invasions have taken place in previous conflicts that they have lost international support and a great deal of sympathy around the world.'

In the US similarly there are reports that Obama is telling Israel not to mount a ground invasion -because the likely toll of civilian casualties would benefit Hamas. So according to these leaders, Israel absolutely has the right to defend itself -- but not actually to take the action that will defeat its attackers! And just whose international support might Israel lose by such a casualty toll? Why, the support of leaders like Hague and Obama! What hypocrisy, furthermore, from those who have been bombing the living daylights out of Afghanistan but impose a totally different standard on Israel.

Of course, no-one in Israel imagines that even the most successful operation in Gaza will defeat the Hamas. The most they hope for is to degrade its capabilities for mass murder so that Israelis can have a few years free of attack before they have to do the same thing all over again.

The reason why this conflict goes on and on in this interminable way, leaving Israel in a state of permanent siege, is quite simple. It is that the so-called civilised world, for all its empty pledges of support for Israel, actually leaves it to swing in the wind.

It persists in casting the conflict entirely falsely as a fight over land boundaries. It totally ignores the Judeophobic incitement to hatred and murder of Israelis with which the Palestinians indoctrinate their children; it totally ignores the Nazi-style (and yes , it is straight from the Nazi lexicon) deranged racist demonisation of the Jews as cosmically evil people responsible for all the ills in the world and controlling everything that moves in the west; it totally ignores the statements made even by so-called moderates such as Mahmoud Abbas that the Palestinians will never accept Israel as a Jewish state, thus committing them to permanent war against it; it totally ignores the fact that this is a religious war against the Jews (read the Hamas Charter); it totally ignores the gross inversion and misrepresentation of history by which the Arabs have concealed the fact that it is only the Jewish people for whom Israel was ever their national homeland.

Instead it ludicrously blames Israel for the impasse because of the 'settlements', thus taking demonstrably absurd Arab propaganda at face value; states that the Palestinians 'deserve' a state of their own (since when did racist aggressors deserve anything at all?); and insists that Israel must negotiate with the Palestinians to arrive at a solution (with increasing voices urging it to negotiate even with the Hamas). But the only solution that can be negotiated with fanatics committed to the eradication of a country is a final one.

In order to arrive at a solution, it is essential first to identify the problem correctly. The problem here is not, as Britain, the US and Europe insist, a conflict between two equal claims to land, two peoples with equal rights to that land, two peoples with an equal moral case. The problem is the implacable, nine-decade attempt by the Arab and Muslim world to remove the Jews by force from their own country and historic homeland. The reason this problem has not been solved - the overriding reason - is that from the very first Arab pogrom in the 1920s against the returning Jews of Palestine, the so-called civilised world led by Britain has rewarded the belligerents and punished their victims.

The only way a solution to this terrible conflict will ever be achieved is if America, Britain and Europe start calling this war of annihilation against Israel for what it actually is and instead of treating the Palestinian aggressors as putative statesmen, start treating them appropriately as global pariahs.

Meanwhile, clearly horrified by the support for Israel that has so far been shown by western leaders who have had the temerity to condemn the Hamas as the aggressor, UK broadcasters have been attempting to remedy this by showing footage of child victims of heartless Israelis bombing Gaza -- rather than presenting them, as they actually are, as the hapless victims of brutal and cynical Palestinians who are deliberately using children and other civilians as human shields.

For sure there are civilians casualties in Gaza, including children, which is awful; but Hamas are still up to their Pallywood tricks, as this example reported in Tablet shows -- a picture of a distraught father holding a dead child which the Hamas claimed was taken in Gaza but was actually taken in Syria during the fighting there.

And then of course there was this unspeakable cartoon by Steve Bell in the Guardian, presenting Israel's Prime Minister as a puppet master pulling the strings of Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague and former Prime Minister Tony Blair - simply because they correctly condemned Hamas as the aggressor!! - thus echoing, as many horrified people have been pointing out, the defining trope of ancient Jew-hatred depicting the Jews as sinister puppeteers controlling world events in their own interests. Arguably even worse in this vile carton was the depiction of Netanyahu surrounded by phalanxes of bombs formed out of the Israeli flag under the rubric 'Vote Likud' -- thus suggesting that Israel's Prime Minister is some kind of murderous psychotic who is bombing Gaza to in order win the forthcoming Israeli general election.

The ludicrous extent to which the left is going to deny the blindingly obvious, which is that Israel taking military action in response to thousands of rockets and missiles bombarding its population as any other country would do, in order instead to impute some kind of cosmic malice to Netanyahu by constructing scenarios which are totally out to lunch, suggests that any psychosis is rather to be found amongst such people when it comes to attitudes towards the State of Israel.

David D (18)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:58 pm
" Israel taking military action in response to thousands of rockets and missiles bombarding its population AS ANY OTHER COUNTRY WOULD DO"
this, methinks, is an extreme attempt at distorting reality and an extreme INSULT to "any other country"

Total fatalities in the history of rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza into Israel: 26.
Operation Cast Lead: December 27, 2008–January 18, 2009: awk: 1,166-1,417 Palestinian and 13 Israeli deaths (4 from friendly fire)


Beth S (330)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 4:42 pm
I am very glad that both the U.S. Senate UNANIMOUSLY passed a resolution supporting Israel's right to defend itself, and even President Obama, who hasn't been the best of friends of Israel's has also come out with a similar statement.

Scumball Hamas took the picture of a bloodied Israeli baby and sent it out to their minions that the picture was of an Arab baby. Pallywood doing what it does best: lie with pictures, stage fake attacks, pretend live people are dead for the camera crews, come out with blatantly false statements.

We live in a sick world, and the demented Hamas and people with similar mindsets, are running the show. Save us all from such corruption.

. (7)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 4:51 pm
Oh yeah, Franck's right alright. Other humane countries's like *Syria* would just go in and shoot everyone they could find, instead of targeted strikes to minimize the deaths of the innocents on the enemy side.

I wish Israel all the success in destroying every weapon Hamas has and rooting out those who have been firing rockets into Israeli civilian areas for months now, which of course is another ongoing Hamas war crime.

Alexander Werner (53)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:36 pm
Franck, no country would tolerate the bombing for 8 years with tens of thousands of rocket, like Israel did.

Israel does not give an excuses that Hamas militants are worse soldiers. Hamas loses in battle, but when you compare how many people were killed in suicide bombings of discos, or lured and killed, Hamas will be the greatest winner.

I hope Israeli military will figure out a way for infantry to check rat holes with no casualties...

pam w (139)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:50 pm
So do I, should we all.

patrica and edw jones (190)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:01 pm
Franck - are you implying that Israels should continue to live under constant bombardment on a daily basis and do NOTHING? Geez Franck - go get an education - and if you feel so strongly for the Palestinians - you should go and fight their 'cause'. Israel is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't - might as well go for broke and God be with them - because this is never going to end if they do nothing. Be'ahavat Yisrael.

RR Sutton (7)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 8:08 pm
For the sack of the Palestinians we can only hope that Egypt has told Hamas they will not come to their aid if Israel invades Gaza. Hopefully, Hamas will remember what happened last time they broke the peace. It nearly crippled them. I truly believe this time around Israel will finish them off if they are forced to invade to stop the rocket attacks.

Nancy Black (308)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 8:18 pm
Noted, tweeted, tweeted, and shared. It has to be scary to send soldiers into Gaza. I lived during Viet Nam; I was scared that my husband would have to go. I was terrified he would not come back. The same has to be true for the Israelis. I agree with Patricia and Edward, it is a Catch-22 for Israel, but the common Palestinians are trapped also. The militants use them as hostages for Hamas's protection. God bless them all and give them some peaceful solution so both sides can co-exist.

Carol Dreeszen (346)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 11:40 pm
May God be with Israel and I hope they go until Israel is the only one standing!

Jennifer Ward (40)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 1:29 am
God speed Israel.

Gillian M (218)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 7:19 am
RR, Israel does not want to destroy Gaza only Hamas. The best that they expect to do is destroy munitions and, hopefully, stop the attacks for a while.

Egyptian Morsi is there to support Hamas and, I presume, give them American paid for armament. After all, Obama has given it to every country where MB is.

Tommy S (11)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:09 am
Genesis 12:1-3 "And I will bless those that bless you and curse the one who curses you. And in you shall all families of the earth be blessed."
When I think of all the Israeli science etc., that has been of benefit to mankind and look at what the barbarians living alongside them have produced,the latter part of this verse is also true.

Rita White (1)
Monday November 19, 2012, 7:43 am
noted, prayers are with Israel

Past Member (0)
Monday November 19, 2012, 8:07 am

David F (39)
Monday November 19, 2012, 1:02 pm
When I think of the money spent on finding a military solution and then think that if that money had been spent on making everyone there prosperous and happy and thus having peace naturally it is a cause for tears and anger.

Stan B (123)
Monday November 19, 2012, 1:50 pm
Whatever action Israel decides to take I hope it will make sure that Hamas never again has the will or ability to fire rockets and missiles on Israeli civilians.
Enough's, enough.

Past Member (0)
Monday November 19, 2012, 2:24 pm
No invasion please, for sanity's sake.

Imran A. (10)
Monday November 19, 2012, 3:24 pm
The double standard against Israel is simply ridiculous. Gillian, you said it perfectly: "So according to these leaders, Israel absolutely has the right to defend itself -- but not actually to take the action that will defeat its attackers!"

I stand with Israel, not just because a country has the right to defend its people from attacks, but because the Jews are the rightful possessors of the land, according to the Bible and even the Qur'an in Sura 5:21. The Islam-mandated hatred of Jews all comes from Muhammad claiming to be a prophet. He attempts to usurp the promise through Isaac, the son born miraculously, by claiming it is through Ishmael, the son born by natural means and as a result of lack of faith in the Lord. Ishmael's seed (literal and figurative) would always fight with his own family. This is the root of Islamic hatred of Jews. The Jews come through Isaac and Muslims come through Ishmael, and Ishmael will always be against his brothers.

The only permanent solution is for Muslims to repent and follow God, instead of Muhammad and his pagan Allah. Roughly 10 million Muslims have been murdered - by Muslims...and that is since 1948 alone! Islam, being Satan's greatest work, only serves the purpose of consuming the lives and souls of people, Muslims included as the foremost victims of Islam's deception, with the Jews and Christians and Hindus and everyone else falling victim as well.


Gillian M (218)
Monday November 19, 2012, 3:27 pm
Well said Imran. Those who believe that the Palestinians should have their own land should know that they already do, and it is not Gaza, it is Jordan. Trouble is, no-one wants to know that, only to destroy Israel.

Lynda GettingBetter (122)
Monday November 19, 2012, 4:08 pm
Thank you for presenting this article, Gillian. I don't know if this ground invasion will achieve anything, but Israel is 'between a rock and a hard place'. I wish them well, and I wish the rest of the world would take the time to learn the real story instead of the Palestinian propaganda.

Monday November 19, 2012, 4:52 pm
First you begin with hate. Then you conspire with a diabologal Nazi like plan. In this case to hem as many Palestinians you can, about two million, into the smallest geographical space that you can. About the size of a New York city borough.

Then you proceed to control access to food; a limit of 2,700 calories per person per day. This limits the ability of the people to think and rationalize their situation. The environment is now set for your objective.

Then you turn up the pressure by killing a youth here, and killing a youth there to raise the frustration level. Now it is time to really make the native explode. You agree to a negotiation with one ot the leader of Hamas who was responsible for negotiating the freedom of the captured Israeli soldier. You assassinate him.

This creates rage among the Palestinians. In their rage they fire homeaid rockets. You have your pretext to send in helicopter gunships, F-16's, and tanks to spray bullets, depleted uranium, white phophorous, and bullets that mostly kill, maim, and injure civilians, women, and children.

This is the essence of premeditated murder carried out by a people who themselves were victimes of a similar Nazi type program.

patrica and edw jones (190)
Monday November 19, 2012, 6:23 pm
Oh dear - Terrance is back with his expose on why the Israelis should lie down and accept what Hamas wants to do to them. Pity people like you are so willing to show their sheer ignorance of previous and present situations. Perhaps you dwell in a BUBBLE?

patrica and edw jones (190)
Monday November 19, 2012, 6:27 pm
Further Terrance - stop IDEALISING TERRORISM AS HONORABLE. Hamas is a terrorist organisation and does not care a fig for its people but puts them in harms way.

Monday November 19, 2012, 7:23 pm
Unfortunately genocide and ethnic cleansing is a sad reaity of human life. I bet each of us can go back in our cultural history and recall a period where our racial group have been victim to some form of ethnic or racial hatred coming from another race, religious, or cultural group.

Jewish people in Germany were caught off guard in Germany. Most thought they were successfully integrated into German society and had no idea that a hologaust was being planned for them. But slowly the Germans began little by little to disinfranchise the Jews until the Jews found themselves in concentration camps. Unfortunately the technology wasn't available to prevent the hologaust.

The Africans were tricked to board slave ships and eventually found themselves serving four hundred years in captivity being worked to death, women raped at whim, culture and heritage taken away, and practically bought to a subhuman condition.

Similarly, the Native American indian sure his land gradually conquered and he and his brethen marched across the continent in during cold winter months in the infamous trail of tears.Now the American Indians find themselves on reservations facing a very dim and precarious future.

To take sides in this situation doesn't solve the problem of the Israeli's nor the Palestinians. The big difference between the Palestinians, the Jews who suffered in the hologaust, the enslaved Africans, and the Native Americans is that the Palestinians have hostory as their guide, they are absolutely sure who their enemy is, and they know the world is watching. Israel will not succeed in ethnic cleansing..

Stella Gamboni (17)
Monday November 19, 2012, 7:29 pm
My prayers are with the innocents on both sides who are being injured or killed while their leaders fail to find a peaceful compromise.

Alexander Werner (53)
Monday November 19, 2012, 8:39 pm
Terrance, Arabs got 10,000 times more land that Israel has. Let them share it with their Palestnian brothers. The Land of Israel is not theirs. And Ottoman Empire was not theirs as well.

Gloria Morotti (1)
Monday November 19, 2012, 10:24 pm

Aaron Holmgren (3)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 2:12 am
It seems to me the problem with peoples perspective of this conflict is that their understanding is clouded by racism (ie. giving relevancy to race) and religion. I notice a lot of reference to "Israelis" or "Arabs", as if that has anything to do with anyone's right to a place. It has been demonstrated numerous times that the Israeli government will walk all over the people living in Gaza at every opportunity, so violent resistance has become their only option; hence, the reason Hamas was born (ie. any extremist, resistance movement like Hamas requires oppression and poverty in order to maintain support, otherwise, it loses relevancy.) In explaining all these religious extremist groups in the middle east, lay westerners focus on religion. Religion is a powerful medium for justification of extreme actions and unification of people living in desperate conditions (ie. great propaganda tool), but it is a well-researched fact that extremist organizations only flourish in areas where oppression and poverty flourish; especially in regions where there are occupying forces. Without the oppression and poverty, support for extremism dwindles and extremist religious ideologies fail to grasp common people's attention. Wake up. We are all humans of the same psychological framework and prone to the same sociological influences as anyone else of the world. It is the extremists of the world who are the ones stuck between a rock in a hard place. What really sickens me are those that are too ignorant and short sighted to even pay attention to the social-psychological aspects of the current dynamics of the middle east, and instead, expect to solve the problems with emotional hatred, anger, and violence. It is those people who are possessed by the idea of "cleansing" the world of extremists (as if they are a some sort of disease on the world), who are really the main cause of exasperating this whole mess. It is especially surprising to see one of Christian faith who prescribes to such heartless, fruitless ideologies, considering they are taught by Jesus to love their enemies. Because extremists are victims of their circumstances, they will always exist, as long as those circumstances exist (they are not some class of human on their own, duh), and you will never berid the world of them, no matter how many people you kill. The longer it takes policy makers and the general public to realize this, the more needless deaths and wasted time will be spent on a never ending war on "terror". You cannot "kill" terrorism! You can not berid violence with violence. It is simply, sociologically impossible. The only way to berid violence is through love, support, and understanding. In this case, it would take an entire population of Israelis to understand and support the will of Palestinians and vise versa. The Israeli government would need to support the economic development and well-being of Palestinians and the Israeli media and education systems would need to spend time studying the culture and hardships of Palestinians and vise versa, so that the two societies would become sympathetic toward one another. These concepts seem to be so far outside of the common westerner with their capitalistic, blame-your-neighbour, mentality; but the cooperation of large groups, outside of economic, capitalistic principles, and a unified system of law, actually requires forgiveness and understanding... what a concept!

Gloria H (88)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 9:03 am
why not just start setting off nukes? Problem solved.Every one on each side goes up in atomic particles. God/Allah/the Holy Tooth Pick/Zeus can then create another chosen people who have his/hers/its approval to dominate the land and kill off anyone who pisses them off.
I fear that the United States will get involved. One more war. I forsee the draft being reinacted. Our families here would be disrupted.Better think it over real good if you have children who will be 18 years old.They may not be around to give you grandchildren.

Carola May (20)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 9:05 am
Wonder why this isn't 'Most active in the world' today since it has more notes than the others? Hmmm...

Tuesday November 20, 2012, 10:26 am
Bob, the issue is not just about land. If it was only about land the problem could probably be solved. We live in a world where the richest %1 strive to occupy and control the levers of power be it economics, military, resources, technology, and idea's so they can continue to profit and control the environment.

Even those like you who find themselves now cheer leading for the Israeli zionist war criminals were not to long ago demonstrating in the streets protesting how the Israeli government was catering to the rich elite and not the average Israeli citizen.

Open your eyes. Don't you see what is happening all over Europe in Portugal, Ireland, Greeze, and Spain. And in the Arab spring. And with occupy wall street in the United States. Gaza is just a testing ground to see how successful the elite are at confining, starving, bombing, and then destroying a large group of people.

They are successful to the extent that they can employ willing stooges who are basically in somewhat similar conditions as the people in Gaza, Greece, New York city, and Egypt to go along with their plan to confine, then attack a basically confined people.

Nexr they will employ there tactic on you and your family. Look what is being allowed in New York city in upscale, white, upper middle class neighborhoods in the Rockaways, and Staten Island. The Red Cross and FEMA basically abandoned these people. bloomberg said New York city doesn't have much housing. He might have added except for his class, the %1.

Hitler was successful because he first was able to divide the Jews along lines of class. First he exterminated the lower class. But evenually he got to the upper class. Just because your not being victimized now doesn't mean you wouldn't be next.

Gillian M (218)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 11:34 am
Terrance, it sounds like you are talking about the Muslim invasion of Europe, Canada and America and their determination to bring in Sharia Law.

I note that you don't mention Jordan which was 76% of the land controlled by the British and split for the benefits of the "Palestinians".

Tuesday November 20, 2012, 5:17 pm
OK Gillian, I will concede that there were Muslims who invaded Spain in Europe, North Africa, and other parts of the world to spread their religion of conquest. This was then followed by the spread of Christian nationalism typifies for Christopher Columbus. This is history that none of us can change.

The wars that result in genocides and war crimes of today, putting aside who is right or wrong, the main casualties are mostly civilians, women, children, and non-combatents. The individuals who initiates the conflict are usually Prime Ministers, Presidents, Generals, and those who will see no combat or experience none of the casualties.

At least in conflicts of the past, the prophets, kings, princes, ministers, and the ruling elite were at least involved in the battle. Now there is a corporate elite, represented by banksters and head of corporations who gives orders to our Presidents and Prime Ministers who are supposed to be representatives of the people but are really representatives of the corporations.

What use is there of land if at bank can in one measure can easily divest you of your property. The government and the banks never strive to create harmony when it comes to ownership of land. The banks and government use every measure to divide Jews and Palestinians. Eventually the Banks and/or Government will end up with the property.

Greed for land, material things, and control over others are at the root of the conflicts worldwide and in Gaza. In our elections just held in the United States we had the specticle of billionaires and millionaires in essence determining what issues were discussed, what candidates will run for office, and ultimately who will represent the people.

The fact that Gaza, a geographic area the size of a New York city borough could be picked for bombing is not determined by the majority of the people worldwide. What sane human being would decide to drop bombs on anyone, much less an area of such density. And the those in Gaza to decide to shoot rockets in Israel knowing that their women and children would be horribly massacred should occur to anyone that these are desperate people looking for a way out of an extremely oppressive situation.

I know years of conditioning, belief, culture, ideology, and history is hard to go against. But we must ask ourselves; if we are not going to live together in peace and harmony are we prepared to ethnically cleanse an entire people, or have them living in a militarily occupied open air prison.The world and the people of Gaza will not allow Israel to keep the people of Gaza in such a condition. I don 't care how much military might the US and Israel have.

Gillian M (218)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 10:49 pm
"Greed for land, material things, and control over others are at the root of the conflicts worldwide and in Gaza."

I agree with most of the conflicts world wide ware about land or mineral rights etc although that does not include N. Mali nor Sudan where the Muslims attempted genocide of the Christian communities, that was solely about religion.

Sadly, the war in Gaza is not about land or minerals, it is about the destruction of Israel. Land for the Palestinians was sorted out by Britain and is currently called Jordan, that was some 76% of the land controlled by Britain. Israel was to have had what was left and the Arabs, at the time of 1948, refused any other part of the land. Under international law and confirmed by an international court, none of the land of Israel belongs to anyone other than Israel.

Now we have that straight (hopefully) we then turn to Gaza. The Palestinians were happily living in Israel and, in fact, there are approx 1.5 million of them still living in Israel as citizens with full equal rights. When the Muslims realised that they could not destroy Israel by force, Arafat came along and demanded land. The Palestinians, in general, were quite happy in Israel but have been used as pawns ever since. Arafat made no secret of the fact that he wanted Israel destroyed and he wore a bade on his uniform to prove it - see pics at

"The Land of Muslim Palestine is a single unit which cannot be divided . There is no difference between Haifa and Shechem (Nablus) , between Lod and Ramallah, and between Jerusalem and Nazareth . . . the land of Palestine is sacred waqf land for the benefit of all Muslims, east and west. No one has the right to divide it or give up any of it. The liberation of Palestine is obligatory for all the Islamic nations and not only for the Palestinian nation." ...Prayer sermon broadcast live on the PA radio station, April 30, 1999

Arafat was offered some 95% of his demands at camp david, why did he not accept them? Because he did not want peace. Abbas has been offered peace and he refuses to accept it. Abbas says one thing in English for the West and, a couple of days later, says something totally different in Arabic which is basically about the destruction of Israel and the killing of all Jews.

If the people were that desperate, why did Arafat and Abbas both refuse the peace offered to them on several occasions? Answer, they did not want it.

Gillian M (218)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 10:51 pm
The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August
18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS,
is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the
territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive
manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the
basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad
(Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS
Goals of the HAMAS:
'The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian
movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is
Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of
Palestine.' (Article 6)
On the Destruction of Israel:
'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will
obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)
The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area:
'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession]
consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one
can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.'
(Article 11)
'Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the
Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem
wherever he may be.' (Article 13)
The Call to Jihad:
'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the
individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation,
it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)
'Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses
everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the
call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will
reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is
achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about.'
(Article 33)
Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:
'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and
international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of
the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than
a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of
Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by
Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a
waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)
Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:
'Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle
[against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The
Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar
agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle.
..Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason,
and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act.' (Article 32)
Anti-Semitic Incitement:
'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and
kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the
rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind
me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)
'The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have
accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money,
they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred
revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the
French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the
revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret
organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions -
which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies
and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ...
and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the
world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge
financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them
having their finger in it.' (Article 22)
'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet
expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River When they have
finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they
will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out
in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32)
'The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the
circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over
the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped
for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews.'
(Article 32)


Alexander Werner (53)
Wednesday November 21, 2012, 12:34 pm
Terrance, Gazans are doing economically better than Egyptians. Do you say that because Egyptians are now very upset they may go and bomb Israel to express their unhappiness?

Your words imply that you are thinking about Arabs as hapless kids without intelligence. That's bad and wrong.

Wednesday November 21, 2012, 5:08 pm
Gillian, thanks for taking the time and effort to present such an exhaustive document as the "The Covenent of Hamas". I will have to look at it thoroughly when I get the chance. I must admit to ignorance to this document. The fact still remains that the major victims whenever there is such hostilities are usually the civilians. Whose ever is at fault, the Palestinian people shouldn't bear the burden because choose Hamas over Fattah.

I too am extremely against the ideology of Zionism as I have expressed on many occasions. I think Zionism has worn out it's usefulness for Israel and the Jewish people and has tradgically served to isolated Israel in the middle east, and the world with only the US as a main ally. Even Britian has expressed very lukewarm support for Israel of late.

A ceasefire has just been called by Secretary Clinton and her counterpart in Egypt. If the Palestinians in Gaza are still living under the same conditions as they were before, there will be another outbreak of hostilities. I don't hold Israel and the US totally to blame for the situation in Gaza. Nation such as Katar, Saudi Arabia, and other Arab nations must also step forward to invest time and resources to a solution. i believe world public opinion was very instrumental in causing the ceasefire this time. The people of Gaza must be allowed access to fish, deal in the sale of goods, travel freely, and produce products in which to sell.

Bob, I'm not advocating the bombing of anyone. I believe mainly in the tactics of Ghandi, and King. But I also reserve the right to defend myself and my family from injury and death. The situation in Gaza is detrimental to the health, well being, and basic level of for it's inhabitants. No human being should live like that. A real God fearing Jew would not do this. The one prepetrating exploitative conditions can call themselves anything they want. I call them greedy, dispicable, low lifes.

Gillian M (218)
Thursday November 22, 2012, 3:03 pm
Terrance, the Gazans are being brainwashed by Hamas & the PA

Palestinian Authority Still Teaching Kids to Hate Israel

Abbas to Israelis: Safed is an Israeli city

Abbas' TV to Palestinians: Safed is a Palestinian city and so are Ashkelon, Haifa, Acre, Tiberias, Beit Shean, Jaffa, Nazareth, Ramle, and Lod

Abbas and PA leaders attend Fatah performance presenting Israel as "Palestine"

Abbas wrote research papers claiming Zionism was a European “imperialist colonialist movement”
Source: Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, July 27, 2011
“Chairman of the Palestinian Authority Mahmoud Abbas raised this claim in the research papers he wrote, as testified by a professor of political science at Bir Zeit University, Dr. Samih Hamouda:
“Yesterday, the department of political science at Bir Zeit University, in cooperation with the Madar Center for Research, held a symposium… Professor Samih Hamouda, of the political science department at Bir Zeit University, presented an analysis of the research papers written by President Mahmoud Abbas on the subject of Zionist ideology. Prof. Hamouda said that in his writings and research, the President linked Zionism to imperialism by examining the reasons for the growth of Zionism, through scientific analysis of European society and the problem of the Jews in Europe, and linking this with the aspirations of the West in the Arabic East. He added, ‘In the President’s research, the Zionist movement is not Jewish, nor does it flow from the desires of the Jews themselves. Rather, it is an imperialist colonialist movement which sought to use the Jews and to enlist them to further the western colonialist plans.’”

Abbas: Hamas "is not required to recognize Israel"
Source: Palestinian TV (Fatah), July 24, 2011
Interview with Mahmoud Abbas on Turkish TV, rebroadcast on PA TV, on occasion of the gathering of all Palestinian ambassadors in Turkey for briefing in anticipation of appeal to UN in September for recognition of independent Palestinian state. Abbas was asked whether, in his opinion, Hamas might recognize Israel.
Abbas: "I don’t know if it's possible that the day might come when Hamas will recognize Israel, but we, for our part, view Hamas as part of the Palestinian people. There is an opposition and there are supporters [a coalition], and that exists everywhere. It exists in Turkey; it exists in the US. It exists everywhere. Hamas has the right to decide its policy. If it wishes to recognize [Israel], it is free [to do so], and if it wishes not to recognize - it [Hamas] exists, and it has supporters, and there are those who want it [the movement] and there are those who like it on the Palestinian scene. With regard to Hamas – it is not required to recognize or not to recognize Israel. That is its own private business."

Abbas claims a fictitious 9000 year-old Palestinian history in Israel

Abbas: "Hamas need not recognize Israel"
Source: Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, May 4, 2011
Headline: “President [Abbas]: The Israeli escalation against [Fatah-Hamas] reconciliation is at its peak; Hamas need not recognize Israel”
“President Abbas said: ‘Hamas is not being asked to recognize Israel, and we will create a government of technocrats. We will not ask Hamas to recognize Israel.’ At the same time, he stated: ‘The next government will include technocrat ministers who will be accepted in the international arena, in the local arena, and everywhere. The next government will be [serving] for a short time, and it will be committed to the policy of the PLO.’”

PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas holds up a "map of Palestine" that includes all of Israel
Source: Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 26, 2010
This picture appeared in the official PA daily and the caption read: “President Abbas holds up a stone model of the map of Palestine.”

PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas displays a map of "Palestine" erasing Israel
Source: Palestinian TV (Fatah), Apr. 27, 2009
PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas displays a map of "Palestine" that erases Israel. The names of the neighboring countries of "Palestine" are written in English: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. There is no mention of Israel.

Abbas speaks in his headquarters in front of map erasing Israel
Source: Al-Ayyam, Nov. 24, 2008
The Palestinian flag over map of "Palestine" that erases all of Israel

Abbas with PLO flag erasing Israel
Source: Palestinian TV (Fatah), Jan. 13, 2008
Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas stands at attention in front of the PLO symbol, which places the Palestinian flag over the map of Israel. This symbolizes that all of Israel is, or will someday be, "Palestine." The picture is from the a PLO Central Committee meeting broadcast on PA TV.


patrica and edw jones (190)
Friday November 23, 2012, 3:10 pm
A documentary was shown recently about the secret tunnels in Gaza - bringing in unimaginable mounds of food - and other things. The Gazan business element and the people themselves appeared quite happy with their lot- no lack of ANYTHING. The title of the documentary was 'FAT GAZA' - showing plump well fed people - swimming, cavorting on the beach - not a worry in the world. This is not to say that all Gazans are as lucky - but then there are always the 'haves and have not.'

patrica and edw jones (190)
Friday November 23, 2012, 3:11 pm
Terrance the past is there to learn from - otherwise we are doomed to repeat our mistakes.
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